Latest / Taking Initiative / Meet Ohio's Attorney General Candidates: John Kulewicz (Democratic Party)
Transcript
- Laura Lucarelli: Welcome back to Taking Initiative. I'm Laura Lucarelli. Patricia Blackmon: And I am Patricia Ann Blackmon. Laura Lucarelli: Together, we focus on how direct democracy, or how the people's voices, play out in Ohio. Pat, how are doing today? Patricia Blackmon: I am excellent. Another day of learning. And how are you doing today, Laura? Laura Lucarelli: Really happy to be here with you, my kind friend, and today's special guest, John Kulewicz a Democratic candidate for Ohio's Attorney General. Thank you for being a guest for us. And just a reminder, Ohio Ballot Protection is focused on people's power of bringing citizen-led initiatives and referendum directly to the ballot. There are many aspects of the Attorney General's office, but today's questions center entirely on the initiative and referendum process and the Attorney General's role in that aspect of the job. It's important for our audience and candidates to know that we are not making any endorsements. Instead, we're asking the same questions so listeners ⁓ decisions for ⁓ So if ready, let's get started. Pat has the first question. Patricia Blackmon: Yes, so happy to have you with us, John. ⁓ know the primaries are coming quickly on May ⁓ talk to us about your background ⁓ and qualifications to be Ohio's Attorney General. John Kulewicz: Thank you, Your Honor. I have practiced law for over 40 years in Ohio. I have argued and won cases in the Supreme Court of the United States, the Supreme Court of Ohio, and federal and state courts around the state of Ohio for a wide variety of Ohio individuals, Ohio businesses, and Ohio associations. I grew up in Columbus. I ⁓ was able to go college because I won a scholarship to the Ohio State University where I studied American history and graduated. I had to get a job I went straight to law school. I went to law school, Yale Law School ⁓ and graduated ⁓ in 1979. ⁓ worked a federal judge the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit for a year. ⁓ And then in January, 1981, came back to Columbus and went Vorys, Sater, Seymour and Pease, it's a large law firm in Columbus. For my entire career, I was a litigator. I had cases in the common police courts, district courts. I did as much appellate work as I could principally in the Franklin County Court of Appeals and Supreme Court of Ohio. also in the Supreme Court of the United States. And it was a wide variety of cases. including election law, but everything from child custody to ⁓ multimillion dollar public utility personal property pipeline ⁓ valuation It's spanned the gamut. ⁓ fortunate to represent clients who ⁓ entrusted to me of most important matters of their lives, which by definition were going to court. ⁓ I took that very seriously and ⁓ ready to go work for you as your next attorney general. Laura Lucarelli: So let's dive right into the process. ⁓ Attorney General's role has been described as the gatekeeper, ⁓ legal compliance officer when it involves Ohio ballot initiatives. ⁓ are your thoughts about that description and how would you approach this responsibility? ⁓ John Kulewicz: I take more kindly to the legal compliance officer part of the definition than to the gatekeeper definition. ⁓ attorney general is the chief law officer of the state, so somebody has to make sure that we are following the law to ⁓ T, ⁓ not only in the initiative and referendum process, but ⁓ anything we do. The gatekeeper name. It connotes attitude about it. I the whole system should be set up to facilitate, not to be a barrier ⁓ to initiatives and ⁓ referenda. So I think understand what's meant by gatekeeper in terms of you do have to take under the law, under the Ohio revised code, you do make an initial at the proposed initiative itself, ⁓ at the summary make sure it's fair and truthful, and then to make that there are adequate signatures and if it does not comply then you send it back and have to start over again. in ⁓ my opinion, people of Ohio adopted the initiative and referendum process in 1912 in ⁓ order to facilitate and maximize ⁓ citizen input into the process in Ohio. ⁓ So ⁓ we the word ⁓ gatekeeper, it to some kind of barrier. there are legal requirements with which everybody must comply, ⁓ but it to the ⁓ role of the Attorney General should be thought and also the Secretary of State as a facilitator, not ⁓ a gatekeeper. Patricia Blackmon: One of the I've been curious about is, in terms of our ballot initiative rules, the revised code and under the Constitution, I was just wondering, have you looked at what other states are doing? ⁓ And have you any ⁓ comparison or thought it would be something that we could look at and see what other states are doing and whether it would apply to us? John Kulewicz: Your Honor, I've taken a look at that on a cursory basis. I cannot tell you that I've made a methodical, due diligence search through any of the other... 50 states. I have seen though that there is great value in doing that. ⁓ ⁓ I've handled ⁓ a lawyer involved seeing what the other states are doing. ⁓ got a lot to learn from that. ⁓ 50 laboratories of democracy ⁓ our republic. if something to be gained by looking at the laws of other states, I'd be ⁓ very in doing that. Patricia Blackmon: And I was just thinking only in terms of the ballot initiatives, because I think it's only about 24 states, Ohio being one, that actually provide for direct democracy. And I was just curious, because I haven't had a chance to look at it either. So I thought, maybe I'll just ask John that question. John Kulewicz: Mm. Right. Laura Lucarelli: do know that in Ohio, the attorney general controls whether you can even get started. I mean, it's very powerful, ⁓ you say that you kind of are not comfortable with the word gatekeeper and more of facilitator. things have over the past several years For example, a 90-day referendum can't get started until it's cleared attorney general. And maybe it's gone back a couple of times, so it just eats into their time, So ⁓ that ⁓ is necessarily all the states do it. Just curious if aware ⁓ of the differences John Kulewicz: am aware that each state has its own approach to it. I think the one we adopted for Ohio is what we have in Ohio. We need to work with it. If there are improvements that we can make based on the experience of other states, I think we ought to take a look at that. Laura Lucarelli: Yeah, fair enough. If you had an opportunity to look at historical initiatives over say the past five years, any that maybe you would have learned from may have handled differently. John Kulewicz: I've followed them, yes, there are several of them. I'm concerned about a of them that have been rejected. but that the attorney general has rejected on more than one occasion. And when you reject it, that's significant because they've already gathered a thousand signatures. And I know from gathering my own petition signatures for running for city council and for attorney general, that's even a thousand signatures, that's a significant. piece of work to do. I'm not opposed to it. think we do have to some sort of threshold before you get to that point. So that's not too bad. I've read with concern about how many times a couple of these have been rejected by the attorney general. It just makes me wonder if there's more going on there than meets the eye. Patricia Blackmon: an excellent point. And one of the standards that the attorney general has to follow is that it has to be fair and truthful on the petition and the petition summary of what the law is. And I was just curious if you had any ⁓ system that you would put in place to actually deal with that. John Kulewicz: ⁓ common sense, just to make sure that the summary ⁓ reflects to the extent that you can what the initiative would do. The test that is used is whether a reasonable person of ordinary intelligence would feel misled after having signed the petition when they read the initiative proposal in its totality. That's fair enough, ⁓ but I we need to give voters a clear snapshot. That summary needs to give people who signed the petition a clear snapshot of what it is that they're signing. So when you're out there on the steps of the library or at a political function, it's a gathering of signatures, people can look at it and kind of grasp what it is. Laura Lucarelli: I have a related-ish question. Ballot language ⁓ kind of disconnected ⁓ the review that Attorney General does up front. ⁓ Attorney General ⁓ at a petition, ⁓ if ⁓ a fair and truthful ⁓ title and summary. ⁓ is the language that would go into the Constitution if it were to pass, correct? John Kulewicz: Yes. The actual, initiative, ⁓ initiated amendment as would go in or initiate. Right. ⁓ Laura Lucarelli: Okay. But then what happens? Yes, that's what you're kind of approving at the early stage. But then what happens is signatures get collected, they're turned in, and at that point the ballot board will create the language that may be reflective ⁓ of what was on initial petition. I just would love your opinion on that disconnect between the language being created. John Kulewicz: I think the same test would reasonably apply. know, ordinary person of reasonable intelligence be able to read what's on the ballot and not feel mis led when they took the time, if they had the time, to read in detail the entire proposal. Patricia Blackmon: is there anything that haven't talked today that you would like to up and add the conversation? John Kulewicz: Well, Your Honor, I can tell you based on my own experience, I've worked ⁓ levies before in Franklin County. ⁓ process here, ⁓ a way to informally clear it with the Secretary of State and with the county prosecuting attorney, which you ⁓ need to do ⁓ the language goes on the ballot. And you can do that informally you invest a whole lot of resources doing it. ⁓ It's worked out very well. It's a very much more efficient process. It's much more. ⁓ citizen friendly to do it that way. know, rather than go through the entirety of the formalities and then present it and then only find out, you missed something here or something else should have been done. You know, there is, I know as a practical matter, the AG does not give pre-approval or pre-clearance guidance. I would not want to take down a fence before I knew I was put up, but But I would be interested in seeing is there some way that we can rearrange that to make it easier for people to get these on the ballot. mean, the whole idea of the initiative and referendum is direct citizen access to lawmaking. If we impose unnecessary barriers or things just for the convenience of the government, don't think we're honoring the spirit of the people who proposed and voted on initiative and referendum back in 1912 and we've carried it through to Ohio. It's a very proud part of our heritage the standard ⁓ that ballot board ⁓ to determine whether it's one subject or not. ⁓ I'd be in exploring that ⁓ further, I cannot purport to be an expert on that, ⁓ but have done a lot of work over the years ⁓ on one subject, the Ohio Constitution. It's, I think, Article 2, Section 15D. It ⁓ no bill shall become law ⁓ that has than one subject to it. And that's been heavily litigated over the It was adopted in 1851 in our second constitution. It's been heavily litigated over the years. at this point in time, what courts say is what constitutes one subject is something that has a common thread, a common rationale, a rational relationship to each other. I think kind of standard would work well in the ballot board context, ⁓ seems to me. we need to guard against any ⁓ chicanery that would thwart ⁓ or citizen access ⁓ to ballot by wording inappropriately the ⁓ proposed initiative or refer the proposed initiative. Laura Lucarelli: Do you any follow-up questions for John? Patricia Blackmon: Well, I was just curious about some of the Supreme Court has made a decision on a couple of the cases. And they seem to have helped with the attorney general's finalization of these petitions. I don't know if you have thought about it. But it seems like at least the last case that was before the Supreme Court on that stand. ⁓ not the one that was involved in the Secretary of State, but the one that was involved in the Attorney General. Laura Lucarelli: You mean qualified immunity, that one? Patricia Blackmon: I think it was that one. John Kulewicz: Didn't that one go to the federal court, I think? ⁓ Patricia Blackmon: Yeah, it did. Laura Lucarelli: It did, yeah. John Kulewicz: I understand that ⁓ words a difference. There are always semantic issues in things, ⁓ if start from the proposition that this should be a citizen friendly process, ⁓ I it ⁓ would things go a little more smoothly. ⁓ there's in the world that you cannot pick apart or ⁓ critique ⁓ improve or whatever, but at some point though, for this process to work, we do have to take a common sense approach to it. Laura Lucarelli: So as we wrap today, John, why do you want the job? John Kulewicz: I love what the Attorney General can do for the people of Ohio. Not only is he... Attorney General responsible for making sure we can be free of violent crime and ⁓ criminal misconduct and live in safe communities. ⁓ there is a whole lot that the Attorney General can do to help us get through the economic situation that we're in in Ohio right now. ⁓ Attorney General can take vast initiatives, make it a priority once again to protect us from consumer fraud that steals our money, ⁓ wage theft when an employer does not pay what they promised to pay us, ⁓ unlawful discrimination that stands in the way of our success, ⁓ ⁓ price fixing monopolies. that are making it too expensive for us to buy or rent what we own. ⁓ Nursing home fraud, Medicaid provider fraud, elder abuse, all these things are going to become increasingly important. When I was doing my due diligence last year about running for attorney general, I went to all 88 counties and I talked to people everywhere. the two things that came through loud and clear to me were that number one, people feel like nobody hears them anymore. Nobody's listening to them anymore. And number two, what people need help with from the state right now, and particularly from the attorney general, is help us get through this economically. It would be my proudest day as attorney general if I could get $500 back for somebody who got scammed and if they were able to use that $500 to get new clothes for their kids or new tires for their car or a tank of gas if the price continues to go up. That kind of stuff, it makes a real practical difference to people everywhere in Ohio. everybody I talk to, every corner of the state, that's the kind of things that people need help with right now. So I can't wait to go to work as your attorney general. I would admit those things are priority once again, as they once were and as they should be. And I wanna make sure we uphold the rule of law in Ohio. That's essential. We see chaos and disorder elsewhere that heaven forbid it should come to Ohio. Laura Lucarelli: Thank you, John, so much for coming on and letting us get to know you. Wish you the best on your campaign, and hopefully we'll see you again closer to November. John Kulewicz: Thank you both. Thank you. Patricia Blackmon: Thank you. Thank you.