Latest / Karl and Crew / Boldness Through the Holy Spirit with Dr. Sam Storms & Christian Patriotism Without Idolatry with Daniel Darling

Transcript

Boldness Through the Holy Spirit with Dr. Sam Storms & Christian Patriotism Without Idolatry with Daniel Darling · Karl and Crew

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  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
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  S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced God, overcome
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  S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
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  S1: the truth daily.
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  S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
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  S2: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S2: that would make it worth it.
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  S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
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  S3: the life source, which is God.
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  S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
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  S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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  S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
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  S1: and crew. I had heard about, uh, hallucinations.
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  S5: But I had never encountered it before.
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  S3: Sure. You see the things in like cartoons, the guy
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  S3: in the desert and he sees the oasis and he
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  S3: starts to walk towards it, and then it's just more sand.
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  S5: Yeah. And the reason you have those cartoon strips is
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  S5: because it's real. Uh huh. Hallucinations happen, and they usually
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  S5: happen in endurance type situations where you're walking across a desert,
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  S5: you're parched and you got no water, and all of
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  S5: a sudden you're seeing stuff because you want to see
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  S5: it so badly. Well, here I am coming off Blueberry Hills.
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  S5: I'm probably 850 miles into the Iditarod Trail sled dog
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  S5: race when I was 18 years old back in the day.
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  S5: And Blueberry Hills are famous for a little, but obviously
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  S5: there's no blueberries in the dead of winter up there,
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  S5: but they're still called Blueberry Hills. And I had ascended
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  S5: coming out of the village of Unalakleet and gotten up
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  S5: to the elevation. I think it's about 1000ft. And then
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  S5: you quickly descend on back down onto the Norton Sound,
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  S5: onto the sea coast, headed for the village of Shaktoolik,
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  S5: and I'm sleep deprived. Horribly. I'm hungry. I know my
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  S5: team is hungry. They're tired. They're just great dogs. They
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  S5: were doing such a good job on that trip. I'll
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  S5: never forget that stretch. But as we landed onto the sea,
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  S5: ice kind of touched down at sea level again. I
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  S5: started looking for Shaktoolik. That's the next village. And I
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  S5: had heard that this is like the longest stretch because
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  S5: it feels like it goes on and on and on,
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  S5: because it's straight and it's flat and it's just out there.
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  S5: And then thank the Lord I saw it, there was
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  S5: shaktoolik and as I got closer, I could not only
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  S5: see the village and all the buildings and the homes.
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  S5: I saw a guy then standing out front and he
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  S5: was chopping wood and there's smoke coming out of a chimney.
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  S5: So I'm like, What I'm going to do here is
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  S5: stop my team, put my snowhook in. And I did,
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  S5: and snowhook emergency brake. I stomped it into the sea
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  S5: ice and I talked to my dogs. I said, I'm
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  S5: going to go find out where the checkpoint is, guys.
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  S5: And as I stepped away from my team toward this
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  S5: guy standing outside this home, poof, he was gone. Village
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  S5: is gone. Everything is gone. And you might be saying
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  S5: right now, Karl, you were losing your mind. And in truth,
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  S5: I probably was.
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  S3: In that moment. You were deprived of sleep, of food, probably.
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  S5: Yeah. I mean, I was, and I was chomping at
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  S5: the bit to see shaktoolik.
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  S3: Yeah, you need to.
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  S5: Do what I could see. That's a hallucination. And boy,
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  S5: it was, it was so wild. I walked back to
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  S5: the sled. I said, guys, we got to keep going.
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  S5: And I'm trying to compute what's going on. And all
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  S5: I see in front of me now is this huge
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  S5: cold expanse of ice and sea, coast and a little
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  S5: trail and nothing winds blowing. And I mean, it was eerie.
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  S5: Spiritual hallucinations are real. What do I mean? You see
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  S5: something in yourself that isn't there. That's scary. And Jesus
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  S5: didn't shy away from how scary it was. I mean,
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  S5: he said it not only in the sermon on the
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  S5: Mount by way of parable. In Matthew 25, he tells
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  S5: three stories about people that have a hallucination of salvation,
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  S5: thinking they see something in themselves that is not there.
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  S5: ten bridesmaids tells this story. Man waiting for the groom
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  S5: to come. Groom's not coming. It's taken a while. All
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  S5: ten are like, wow, it's taking a while. Everybody's dozing
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  S5: off at midnight. Boom. Trumpet sounds. Here he comes. So
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  S5: all ten bridesmaids have something in common. They're all dressed up.
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  S5: Five are ready to go, five are not. And the
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  S5: audience that Jesus was telling this to would have understood
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  S5: this perfectly well. And it's a terrifying reality that there
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  S5: are five bridesmaids that have lamps that are filled with
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  S5: oil ready to go when the groom comes, and five
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  S5: that are dressed up, but they're not ready to go.
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  S5: They have no oil. And the story goes on to
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  S5: say that these five are scrambling. They're like, hey, can
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  S5: I get some oil from you? But the five bridesmaids
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  S5: with oil in their lamp, they're like, no, I mean,
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  S5: this is for me. You can't ride on the coattails
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  S5: of my oil here in the last moment. And Jesus
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  S5: says in Matthew seven, many will say to me on
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  S5: that day, Lord, Lord, and he's going to say, I
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  S5: never knew you depart from me. And these are not
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  S5: atheists or agnostics or not shaking a fist at God.
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  S5: These are religiously active people that even did mighty works
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  S5: in the name of God, meaning translated for today. They
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  S5: have the hallucination thinking that because they are going to
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  S5: a church and maybe even active in that church, they
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  S5: do not stand with God and God does not stand
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  S5: with them. And you might say, and I could understand this,
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  S5: you're going. Come on. Well, how can we know? Well,
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  S5: one of the greatest evidences of knowing that you stand
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  S5: with God is when you get up in the morning
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  S5: and you put your feet on the floor, is every
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  S5: intention of your heart and love and desire to follow
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  S5: and honor God with your life? And by the way,
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  S5: with the resources that God's given you, your time, your talent,
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  S5: your treasure, why would I say that? Why? Why does
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  S5: that need to be ordered? You look at the parable
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  S5: of the talents. What do you find? Well, 1.11.21 got
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  S5: for the guys with two and four, they reinvested that.
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  S5: They they gave it away. They gave away all that
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  S5: had been given to them because they wanted to honor God.
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  S5: The one in fear held on. It's a scarcity mindset,
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  S5: but the one was cast away. You find it repeated
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  S5: over and over again. The apostle Paul tells the church
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  S5: of Corinth, and we find it in First Peter, man,
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  S5: examine yourself to see if you're in the faith. Why?
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  S5: Because a hallucination of salvation is a very real thing.
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  S5: The evidence in Scripture is is a high call. It's
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  S5: not about raising a hand or repeating a prayer. I
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  S5: know because I was one of these. There's some that
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  S5: have walked denial, but they've never followed Christ. That's a
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  S5: big difference. Can there be emotional swings where we're like, yes,
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  S5: I'm all in with Jesus. I'm going for it. And yeah,
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  S5: because the seed on the rocky soil appears at first
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  S5: to be all in but a little bit of hardship,
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  S5: a little bit of something comes and boom, topples over.
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  S5: Can the worries of this world, the deceitfulness of wealth
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  S5: and the desire for other things cause people to have
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  S5: a hallucination of salvation. Can it can it be disguising
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  S5: the fact that, wow, I've never really been in Christ Jesus?
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  S5: Jesus says it's possible. Hallucinations of salvation are real. It
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  S5: was real for me. I had walked aisles. I was
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  S5: baptized as a kid, but I was called out of
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  S5: darkness into the light. February 11th of 1984. A great day, man.
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  S5: And Jesus just said to me on that day, are
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  S5: you done yet? Let me tell you what happened spiritually
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  S5: is a fulfillment of what Jesus said in his first
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  S5: words in the sermon on the Mount. Blessed are the
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  S5: poor in spirit, for yours is the kingdom of heaven.
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  S5: When I realized, man, I am spiritually bankrupt. This isn't
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  S5: about me praying a prayer. This isn't about me walking
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  S5: an aisle. This isn't about me getting baptized. It's about
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  S5: the full surrender of my life to Jesus. Every square
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  S5: inch of me surrendered to him. That's when life became
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  S5: new for me. My own bride. I'm going to have
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  S5: her someday share her story. Raised in church. Preacher's kid
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  S5: laying in bed after years of trying to concoct. And
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  S5: she kind of created her own little personal religion, a
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  S5: little bit of Christianity, a little bit of kind of self-actualization,
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  S5: just laying in bed watching a fly beat its head
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  S5: up against a window. You know how those flies go. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
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  S5: And she's like, she looked at the fly and she's saying, man,
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  S5: if you just go down three inches, you're going to
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  S5: be free. And the Holy Spirit said to her, Janine,
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  S5: you're that fly. We got to go down all the
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  S5: way before we can experience the freedom that is found
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  S5: in Jesus Christ. And the Apostle Paul said, these words
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  S5: are powerful. If you confess with your mouth that Jesus
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  S5: is Lord. Oh, stop right there. That means not that
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  S5: you're adding Jesus to your life, but that he is
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  S5: in full control. He's your highest authority. There is no
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  S5: one but him driving your life. If you confess with
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  S5: your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart
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  S5: that God raised him from the dead. It's not something
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  S5: you hold in your mind. It's a heart relationship with God.
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  S5: You will be saved. For with the heart one believes
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  S5: in is justified. And with the mouth one confesses and
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  S5: is saved. You know, we've been going here as a
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  S5: station for 100 years, and God's got us here for
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  S5: this time. And we probably sometimes wonder ourselves, why us?
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  S5: I think one of the reasons is that we live
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  S5: in a time when there is a great hallucination of
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  S5: salvation across our landscape as a nation, for sure. There's
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  S5: no question about it, guys. There are millions of well-meaning
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  S5: people who go to church pretty regularly. Pew ran a poll,
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  S5: found out 24% of our nation associates or would identify
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  S5: as not only Christian, but go to a Bible preaching church.
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  S5: Maybe not regularly, but they would affiliate with that church.
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  S5: And yet only 4% have a biblical worldview and understanding
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  S5: of the deity of Christ, the inspiration of Scripture. And
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  S5: they're in the word, and they want the Word of
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  S5: God to guide every bit of their lives. The worries
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  S5: of this world, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desire
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  S5: for other things. According to Jesus story of the four soils.
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  S5: That's not a fruit producing life. It's a hallucination of salvation.
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  S5: This attempt to hold Jesus in one hand and keep
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  S5: all your idols tucked up in the other arm. You know,
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  S5: you might have been fooling yourself, but you're not fooling God.
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  S5: And could it be that you're fooling yourself? Well, according
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  S5: to Matthew seven, the many that will say on that day, Lord, Lord.
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  S5: They're surprised at the fact that they're not spiritually fit
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  S5: for the Kingdom of heaven. Wow. And so I want
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  S5: to be really honest with you. In the first gospel
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  S5: that was ever written, we find that the disciples were
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  S5: sent out to talk about the gospel as it really is.
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  S5: It's a gospel of repentance. It means metanoia. It means
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  S5: to change your mind about who is your Lord, who
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  S5: is your highest authority. If you confess with your mouth,
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  S5: Jesus as Lord means that he has full control of
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  S5: everything about you. It's not. Raise your hand when no
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  S5: one's looking around. That's that's deceptive, man. It's about lowering
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  S5: your heart and humbling yourself under his mighty hand and saying,
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  S5: I'm a sinner. I need a Savior. His name is Jesus.
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  S5: And today I give you my life. And for some
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  S5: of you today, the God of this age has blinded
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  S5: the minds of the unbelieving, even church going people. The
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  S5: Holy Spirit's breaking through. It's like light is shining into
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  S5: your soul. And the cry of your heart right now
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  S5: is I've never been born again. But today I surrender
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  S5: all that I am to Jesus Christ. Awesome. That's why
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  S5: we're here, to help strip down this veil of darkness
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  S5: and to just open the word and go, this is
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  S5: what Jesus warned of. Don't be one of those who's
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  S5: caught saying, Lord, Lord. And he's going to say, I
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  S5: never knew you, and I love you enough to tell
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  S5: you the hard truth until you can say, Jesus is
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  S5: my Lord. We're not fit for the kingdom of God.
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  S5: Today I appeal to you. Today is the day of
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  S5: salvation for you. The God of this age has blinded
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  S5: the minds of the unbelieving. But today, by the power
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  S5: of the Holy Spirit. For some of you, the Holy
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  S5: Spirit is pulling down this veil of religious activity. He's
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  S5: pulling down the veil of do gooder ism. He's pulling
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  S5: down the veil of comparison. He's pulling down the veil
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  S5: of behavior modification, and he's offering you life abundant today.
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  S5: And please, friend, don't let pride hold you back from salvation.
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  S5: I don't care if you're an elder or a pastor.
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  S5: Don't care if you're a worship leader. The only question
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  S5: on the table today is are you saved? Have you
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  S5: come to grips with the fact that I'm a sinner?
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  S5: I need a savior. I don't, I don't need to
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  S5: add Jesus to my life. I need to give him
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  S5: every bit of my life. Yeah. Is that you today?
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  S3: You know, it took me two years. From the moment
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  S3: I felt the conviction of this passage from to when
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  S3: I gave my heart to Jesus, really, and surrendered to
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  S3: him as Lord and master of my life. I was
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  S3: not promised any of those two years. I'm grateful because
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  S3: it took me that long. I don't want it to
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  S3: take you that long either, because we aren't promised tomorrow.
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  S5: No we aren't.
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  S3: So today, if you hear his voice, do not harden
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  S3: your hearts because we don't know where we're going to
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  S3: be at tomorrow. Don't take longer like I did.
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  S5: Yeah, man, it's a cry of the soul to. I mean,
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  S5: you don't need to be in church. I wasn't I
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  S5: was driving down the road and God just said to me,
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  S5: are you done yet? And you know what God's saying
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  S5: that to some of you right now. Are you done?
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  S5: And some of you are saying, I'm so done. And
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  S5: here's the cry of the soul. Just cry out to
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  S5: God and say, I'm a sinner. I need a Savior.
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  S5: Thank you, Jesus, for dying on the cross for my sins.
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  S5: And today I repent, I turn around, I'm changing my mind.
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  S5: I'm changing the direction of my life. In Jesus is
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  S5: filling your lamp with the oil of salvation. The light
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  S5: of Jesus Christ in you're born again. And the blues
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  S5: are bluer, the greens are greener. Your day has changed
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  S5: because your life has been transformed right now by the
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  S5: power of God. It's a cry of the soul. I'm
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  S5: asking you cry out right now. Wherever you are. Just say, Jesus,
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  S5: I give you my life. The hallucination of salvation is gone.
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  S5: Today I surrender all to Jesus Christ, every bit of me.
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  S5: And here's the great confidence we have. He who began
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  S5: this work in you, he will carry it on to
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  S5: completion until the day of Christ Jesus. And we're going
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  S5: to help you right now. Friend, I don't care if
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  S5: you're driving down the road. I don't care if there's
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  S5: tears coming out of your eyes right now. Grab your phone.
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  S5: If you're on the road, get to the side of
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  S5: the road. I don't want there's no need to be
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  S5: in danger here. Get to the side of the road.
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  S5: Wherever you are. Walking down a path, in your office,
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  S5: in your kitchen, wherever you are. If today is the
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  S5: day of salvation, you've never fully surrendered your life to
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  S5: Jesus until now. We want to help you in your
• 19:00
  S5: first steps with Christ.
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  S6: That's right.
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  S5: Here's what I want you to do. Text one word
• 19:06
  S5: and I want you to follow the prompts. We've got
• 19:08
  S5: people in your area that are willing to reach out
• 19:11
  S5: to you and say, let me encourage you. How cool
• 19:14
  S5: is that? I wish I'd have had that in 84.
• 19:18
  S5: We've got a Bible we're going to send to you.
• 19:20
  S5: You might say, I've got a Bible somewhere. How about
• 19:23
  S5: start fresh with a brand new Bible? This is a
• 19:28
  S5: new day. And if this is you, if God's calling
• 19:32
  S5: you out of darkness for the first time, never before
• 19:35
  S5: have you done this. Not at this point, not at
• 19:37
  S5: this point of utter abandonment to Jesus Christ. Just text
• 19:44
  S5: the word new right now to 805 557898. One word
• 19:49
  S5: new right now to 805 five, five, 78, 98. We're
• 19:55
  S5: going to help you in your first steps with Jesus.
• 19:58
  S5: One word new to 800 555, 78, 98.
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  S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio. So when I
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  S1: say the word.
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  S5: Boldness, what do you think? Super di first thing comes
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  S5: to mind? Boldness.
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  S4: Courageous. Like someone standing there with their hands on their
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  S4: hips going, yes, I got this. Woo hoo!
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  S5: Like a true Greek. She's got her hands on her
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  S5: hips right now. All right, I say the word boldness.
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  S5: What do you think?
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  S3: I think of someone saying the hard thing. Uh, you know,
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  S3: in front of people that that maybe no one wants
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  S3: to say, but needs to be said and someone's just
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  S3: gonna tough it out and say it. I'm like, and
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  S3: you go, oh, that's bold.
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  S5: Are you naturally bold?
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  S6: No.
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  S5: That was quick.
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  S3: Now, if I if I've ever shown any boldness in
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  S3: my life, it's because of the Holy Spirit in me,
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  S3: because I, I would love to just not ever say
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  S3: anything that rocks the boat. Uh, you know, I, I
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  S3: start so quick insight to Jonathan.
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  S5: I want it, man.
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  S3: So I used to if I, you know, because we
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  S3: all as a team will will go the direction of
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  S3: the show and we can say, hey, I don't think
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  S3: this is working. Maybe we do this instead. And, you know,
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  S3: I used to in moments where we were kind of like, okay,
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  S3: what can we change? What can we do? Or, or
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  S3: just feeling that myself that something needed to change. I
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  S3: was very nervous to tell you guys if I ever
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  S3: thought we needed to do something differently on the show. Yeah.
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  S3: And I would sit here and the Holy Spirit would
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  S3: be like, you need to say something.
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  S5: And I kept telling you, dude, we need to hear
• 21:34
  S5: from you.
• 21:34
  S3: I know, and you'd say it too. And I'd be like,
• 21:36
  S3: I don't want to say anything. I don't want to
• 21:38
  S3: rock the boat. I don't want to make anybody mad
• 21:39
  S3: by by saying this isn't working or something.
• 21:42
  S5: Nobody got mad.
• 21:43
  S3: No, no one was mad.
• 21:44
  S5: But now you've got a loose tongue. That's right. You
• 21:47
  S5: share all the time.
• 21:48
  S7: Now I won't be quiet.
• 21:50
  S5: No, he won't be quiet.
• 21:52
  S3: But it would. I would do that. And I'd argue
• 21:55
  S3: with the Holy Spirit about like, I don't want to
• 21:56
  S3: say anything. And then I'd say something, and you guys
• 21:58
  S3: would be like, you're right. We do need to do that.
• 22:01
  S3: And then we'd do it and it would be like, oh,
• 22:03
  S3: it was that easy. And it was like, so even
• 22:05
  S3: stuff that was that simple, I would be very afraid
• 22:08
  S3: to speak out and say something about it.
• 22:10
  S8: I love it. Yeah. Oh goodness.
• 22:12
  S5: Sakes. Super naturally bold.
• 22:14
  S4: No. But in certain situations.
• 22:17
  S3: That one surprises me more. I do think I can
• 22:19
  S3: see Diana being bold.
• 22:20
  S8: Uh.
• 22:21
  S4: If I'm stepping up for somebody else.
• 22:24
  S3: Yes.
• 22:24
  S5: Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's not for her, but for someone else.
• 22:27
  S5: If there's been an injustice.
• 22:29
  S4: I am like full battle for someone else.
• 22:33
  S3: That's true. Super. I won't stay.
• 22:34
  S4: Quiet. Stick up for them. Yeah, I sometimes I go
• 22:36
  S4: overboard if I'm. But yeah, but no, not yet. Not
• 22:41
  S4: for me though.
• 22:42
  S5: Have you ever made. Have you ever been so bold
• 22:44
  S5: as to make a phone call to get to stand
• 22:46
  S5: up for someone?
• 22:47
  S4: Oh, I did it yesterday.
• 22:48
  S3: What?
• 22:50
  S4: Yes.
• 22:50
  S3: Maybe you can't share that on air.
• 22:51
  S4: I can't share too much. It was for a relative.
• 22:53
  S4: But I called a company because. Yes. Oh, and took
• 22:57
  S4: care of it. And they overnighted what they said wouldn't
• 23:02
  S4: be there for 2 to 3 weeks. And this individual
• 23:04
  S4: needed that item because I didn't want that individual to
• 23:07
  S4: be home without some type of contact hanging from their neck,
• 23:11
  S4: that they can be reached in an emergency.
• 23:13
  S3: Oh man.
• 23:13
  S4: I'm just going to say that much.
• 23:14
  S5: Oh, is this a life alert?
• 23:16
  S4: So I got onto the phone and lo and behold,
• 23:19
  S4: guess what's arriving today?
• 23:22
  S3: I got it done.
• 23:22
  S5: Is it a life alert? Yes. Awesome.
• 23:25
  S3: That's great. Super. I got it done.
• 23:27
  S5: Super. I ain't messing around.
• 23:28
  S7: No.
• 23:29
  S5: Something tells me that someone near and dear to your heart.
• 23:31
  S3: Yes, I think so.
• 23:32
  S5: That's awesome. Super.
• 23:34
  S3: That's great.
• 23:35
  S5: Yeah. We're not waiting 2 or 3 weeks.
• 23:37
  S3: No.
• 23:38
  S5: If she falls down and she doesn't have a little button.
• 23:41
  S3: Oh, no.
• 23:42
  S4: So that was the issue and didn't work. So I
• 23:46
  S4: won't go into my phone call, but um.
• 23:48
  S5: Hold it, hold it. She pressed it and it didn't work.
• 23:51
  S3: No. Oh, no.
• 23:53
  S4: So yeah, that's a whole other show. But, um.
• 23:56
  S5: Maybe we'll have that one on Monday. What do you
• 24:00
  S5: do in your life? Alert doesn't work. What do you do?
• 24:03
  S4: Let me know and I will make the phone call
• 24:05
  S4: for you. I will take care of it for you.
• 24:07
  S3: Oh, goodness.
• 24:07
  S4: So.
• 24:08
  S3: But I'm glad everyone's okay.
• 24:10
  S4: In respect to them. They. They came through, but good.
• 24:14
  S3: It needed a super day.
• 24:15
  S4: It took some boldness, but.
• 24:17
  S5: Well, what Super Day did is she alerted them to
• 24:20
  S5: a dysfunctional life alert.
• 24:22
  S3: Yes.
• 24:23
  S4: Exactly.
• 24:24
  S5: Stay alert people. You're selling something. It better work.
• 24:27
  S4: 2 to 3 weeks. No, that ain't.
• 24:29
  S3: Happening.
• 24:31
  S5: I can hear you right now. Uh, no. No, that's
• 24:34
  S5: that's not going to work.
• 24:35
  S3: That ain't going to happen. We're not doing that.
• 24:37
  S5: I love it, I love it.
• 24:39
  S4: Who else can I talk to? No. Next.
• 24:42
  S5: Oh my goodness. Well, I had to be bold with
• 24:46
  S5: my wife.
• 24:47
  S3: Oh, yeah.
• 24:48
  S5: Yeah.
• 24:48
  S4: Uh. Oh.
• 24:49
  S3: In what way?
• 24:49
  S5: Yeah. Well.
• 24:51
  S3: Should we, are we sharing?
• 24:51
  S5: I don't want to say the name of the refrigerator,
• 24:53
  S5: but we bought a refrigerator ten years ago, and my
• 24:57
  S5: wife reached for the freezer. We got this one of
• 24:59
  S5: these with the French doors on the top and the
• 25:01
  S5: freezer on the bottom.
• 25:02
  S4: Oh, yeah.
• 25:03
  S5: Yeah. And she reached for it, and the whole handle
• 25:04
  S5: came off in her hand.
• 25:06
  S4: Oh, my.
• 25:07
  S3: Did she find out later that she had superpowers like that?
• 25:11
  S3: Sounds like a.
• 25:11
  S5: It is this. This. I can't even say what the
• 25:14
  S5: company is because that ain't right. But I wish I could.
• 25:18
  S4: Wasn't like it.
• 25:19
  S5: Was just been a joke, man. I mean, the freezer,
• 25:21
  S5: the ice cube maker stopped in like a year and.
• 25:25
  S3: No, no.
• 25:25
  S5: And then the motor started making noise at about three years. Oh, yeah.
• 25:30
  S5: Trays where you put stuff and it looks like we
• 25:33
  S5: had looks like we had teenagers that would just slam
• 25:36
  S5: stuff into the trays in the in the holders, you know,
• 25:39
  S5: the mustard trays, they, they just started breaking.
• 25:42
  S4: Not a good record going.
• 25:43
  S5: The handle came off in your hand and that's. To me,
• 25:46
  S5: a refrigerator ought to last a little longer than ten years.
• 25:49
  S4: I would think.
• 25:50
  S3: I think so. I'd say so.
• 25:51
  S5: But anyway, so I had to tell my wife because
• 25:53
  S5: she's like, oh, we don't need to get no. Yeah,
• 25:55
  S5: we're getting one. Because now you have to reach with
• 25:59
  S5: your left hand to one lever manually and the right
• 26:02
  S5: hand with the other lever pick up and pull it out.
• 26:06
  S5: And it ain't easy for me. And I said, no,
• 26:09
  S5: we're going to get a refrigerator. We're not having this
• 26:12
  S5: shag nasty thing sitting here in the kitchen, man.
• 26:16
  S4: No.
• 26:16
  S5: See, that looks like somebody did an operation on it.
• 26:19
  S3: That's so funny. That's very much. My personality is I'll
• 26:22
  S3: let stuff go as long as I can let it go. Uh,
• 26:24
  S3: and maybe I need to not do that as much.
• 26:26
  S5: Yeah, I think so. I think that's a good idea.
• 26:29
  S5: All right. Boldness. That's the day to day. Yep. Where
• 26:32
  S5: do we get it from? Living free implies boldness.
• 26:37
  S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
• 26:41
  S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
• 26:45
  S1: Moody Radio.
• 26:46
  S5: One of the great realities of freedom in Christ is
• 26:50
  S5: the privilege to live as we never could before. I'm
• 26:53
  S5: reminded of what my dad tells me all the time,
• 26:55
  S5: and it's a great one. Well, told me, man, I
• 26:57
  S5: put it in the present tense. He's gone to be
• 26:59
  S5: with the Lord. But he said, Carl, grace isn't the
• 27:03
  S5: permission to live as we like. It's the privilege to
• 27:07
  S5: live as we never could before. With us right now,
• 27:10
  S5: Sam storms. That's a pretty good quote from my dad,
• 27:13
  S5: isn't it, Sam?
• 27:15
  S9: It is indeed. It is indeed. I love statements like that.
• 27:18
  S5: Yeah, it's really true. Uh, we look at the New
• 27:21
  S5: Testament primarily the book of acts, and we can super
• 27:25
  S5: spiritualize all of these figures and characters. It's so easy, Sam.
• 27:30
  S5: It's like, okay, wow, that was then. But you look
• 27:35
  S5: in acts four and you find these two characters, Peter
• 27:38
  S5: and John and Peter. Peter had his bumps in the
• 27:41
  S5: road about being faithful with God, for sure. And they've
• 27:45
  S5: been imprisoned and now they're threatened and they're like, who
• 27:49
  S5: are we going to serve God or man? And they're
• 27:52
  S5: speaking this out to the religious leaders. And here's what's
• 27:56
  S5: so insightful. They had recognized by looking at Peter and
• 28:01
  S5: John that these were men who were, yes, totally uneducated,
• 28:06
  S5: but they had been with Jesus. That's a mouthful. What's
• 28:10
  S5: being recorded here? What was the distinguishing characteristics that they
• 28:14
  S5: had been with Jesus, Sam.
• 28:16
  S9: Well, it's obvious that in order to take a stand
• 28:20
  S9: like this in the face of beatings and imprisonment and
• 28:24
  S9: perhaps even execution, these men were captivated by the person
• 28:28
  S9: of Jesus. They were absolutely enthralled with him. They had
• 28:32
  S9: a deep conviction, obviously, of who he was. They had
• 28:34
  S9: seen him work miracles for three years. They watched his,
• 28:38
  S9: saw the evidence of his resurrection, his ascension into heaven.
• 28:42
  S9: And it was it was never a difficult choice for them.
• 28:45
  S9: I think maybe sometimes it's difficult for us today. AM
• 28:48
  S9: I going to stand up for the Lord and and
• 28:50
  S9: take my hits from a mocking, unbelieving society? I don't
• 28:55
  S9: think they necessarily had that same challenge. There doesn't seem
• 28:58
  S9: to be any cowardice or any hesitation on their part.
• 29:01
  S9: They said, we know what our obligation is. it's to
• 29:04
  S9: God and not you. And if you ask us to
• 29:05
  S9: do anything that God forbids or you forbid us from
• 29:09
  S9: doing what God commands, we're going with the Lord. And
• 29:12
  S9: I can only trace that to their absolute confidence, their
• 29:17
  S9: unwavering belief in the truth of who Jesus was. And
• 29:21
  S9: then I think also, I mean, a little bit farther
• 29:24
  S9: in acts chapter four, if people wonder, how can a
• 29:26
  S9: person have this kind of a mindset, you read about
• 29:30
  S9: their affirmation of the sovereignty of God. He's the sovereign
• 29:33
  S9: Lord who made the heaven and the earth and the
• 29:35
  S9: sea and everything in them. And they said, well, how
• 29:37
  S9: could we dare back down from the God who has
• 29:41
  S9: made it all and who has providentially governing it all?
• 29:43
  S9: So unfortunately, today, I think so many in our society,
• 29:48
  S9: our faith is superficial. It's surface level, it's convenient faith.
• 29:52
  S9: It's not a deep seated devotion to the Lord himself.
• 29:56
  S9: And I think that's the only way we're going to
• 29:58
  S9: be able to survive what's coming our way. And to
• 30:00
  S9: a certain extent, already here. We need to take a
• 30:03
  S9: long look at these men and women and ask, how
• 30:06
  S9: can we respond similarly?
• 30:08
  S5: Yeah. Sam Storms, my guest right now, I have heard
• 30:12
  S5: people say, and I can understand this, but I want
• 30:16
  S5: you to interact with it. Some have said, well, my goodness,
• 30:19
  S5: they almost had an unfair advantage. I mean, they were there.
• 30:23
  S5: We're here. And then I pair that up. I saw
• 30:25
  S5: a clip yesterday actually of John Wimber. He had some
• 30:29
  S5: controversial things, but I thought he had some. I don't
• 30:32
  S5: know if you remember that name or not, Sam, but John.
• 30:34
  S9: Yeah. He was a friend of mine.
• 30:36
  S5: John Wimber.
• 30:37
  S9: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
• 30:39
  S5: Okay. I thought he had some amazing stuff to say.
• 30:42
  S5: And he would speak of power evangelism. And his conviction
• 30:47
  S5: was that Peter and John were just filled with the
• 30:52
  S5: Holy Spirit and that we can be as well speak
• 30:55
  S5: to that.
• 30:56
  S9: Oh, absolutely. In fact, all through the book of Acts,
• 30:59
  S9: whenever there is a miracle performed, whether it's a healing
• 31:02
  S9: or whether it's standing up to opposition. It says. And
• 31:07
  S9: having been filled with the Holy Spirit, Peter said, or
• 31:10
  S9: Paul said, uh, or Stephen said, you know, how in
• 31:14
  S9: the world could Stephen have endured the beating and the
• 31:17
  S9: stoning to death? I mean, I can't imagine a more
• 31:20
  S9: horrible way to die. And it's basically he was full
• 31:23
  S9: of the Holy Spirit says it multiple times in acts
• 31:26
  S9: chapter six and seven. So these men obviously walked in
• 31:30
  S9: moment by moment, dependence upon the spirit. They trusted the
• 31:33
  S9: Spirit of God to enable them to do what in
• 31:35
  S9: their in their own natural flesh and strength they never could.
• 31:39
  S9: It takes a lot of fortitude to stand the way
• 31:42
  S9: they did. And we're going to need that same fortitude.
• 31:45
  S9: And we only get it by knowing who Jesus is,
• 31:47
  S9: trusting in him, and calling out for the sustaining work
• 31:51
  S9: of the spirit in our hearts. Uh, in passing, you mentioned, uh,
• 31:54
  S9: you know, they seem to be at an advantage to
• 31:57
  S9: us Because they were actually with Jesus, they saw him
• 32:00
  S9: and were at a disadvantage. I don't believe that's true. Now, granted,
• 32:04
  S9: I would have loved to have been there, but I
• 32:06
  S9: think about first Peter one eight where Peter says, though
• 32:08
  S9: you have not seen him, you love him. So you
• 32:11
  S9: don't have to see him in the flesh to love him.
• 32:14
  S9: Though you do not now see him, you believe in
• 32:16
  S9: him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled
• 32:19
  S9: with glory. So I think what God has done for
• 32:23
  S9: us that puts us at an advantage over them, is
• 32:27
  S9: that they had these momentary little interactions and glimpses of Jesus.
• 32:30
  S9: We have the fullness of the biblical revelation. We have
• 32:33
  S9: it right there in Scripture, and we can encounter Christ
• 32:36
  S9: Jesus in the same way, if not even greater than
• 32:40
  S9: those who walked with him in the first century.
• 32:42
  S5: You know, it's not explicit, but it's implicit here in
• 32:46
  S5: acts four. Sam, Peter, and John, this is right on
• 32:50
  S5: the heels of Day of Pentecost. And I've been a man.
• 32:54
  S5: I remember walking into the woods in Sunriver, Oregon, for
• 32:57
  S5: crying out loud. Dating my bride back in the day.
• 32:59
  S5: Her dad was the pastor of Community Church there. I
• 33:02
  S5: walked into the woods and I made this resolve. Built
• 33:05
  S5: a fire, wrote this list of how many verses I'm
• 33:08
  S5: going to memorize in the next year, and all of
• 33:10
  S5: how many people I've been witness to and all this.
• 33:12
  S5: And I'm going to be bold for you. And the
• 33:15
  S5: Lord in his grace, has shown me that boldness is
• 33:18
  S5: not about conjuring up, almost making a vow to God.
• 33:22
  S5: It's really about soaking up the power of the Holy Spirit. Now,
• 33:27
  S5: a lot of people have had an aversion to this
• 33:29
  S5: in the evangelical church, but I've been talking with more
• 33:32
  S5: and more people. I believe that there is an awakening
• 33:34
  S5: of the Holy Spirit's power in our life. So it
• 33:38
  S5: begs the question, because you've you've seen that, right? You've
• 33:41
  S5: probably done that where you where you thought, I'm going
• 33:43
  S5: to be bold for you, God. And then you find out, man,
• 33:45
  S5: I am pitifully weak. I need the Holy Ghost. You've
• 33:49
  S5: experienced that, right, Sam?
• 33:51
  S9: Oh, sure. Yeah. You know, I, I know what it's
• 33:53
  S9: like to be faced with an opportunity to share Christ,
• 33:56
  S9: and I backed down in cowardice.
• 33:57
  S10: Or fear or whatever.
• 34:00
  S5: I'm glad to hear you're human.
• 34:01
  S10: Oh.
• 34:02
  S9: Yeah. Absolutely. And yet I'm looking at this story in
• 34:05
  S9: acts four. We've been talking about and the prayer they prayed.
• 34:08
  S9: And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to
• 34:11
  S9: your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness.
• 34:14
  S9: In other words, they said, Lord, we don't have boldness
• 34:16
  S9: inherently within us. We're all basically cowards. Would you grant us,
• 34:20
  S9: would you give us the boldness? And then, of course,
• 34:23
  S9: it says down in the verse 31, and they were
• 34:25
  S9: all filled with the Holy Spirit. And what happened? And
• 34:29
  S9: they continued to speak the Word of God with boldness.
• 34:31
  S9: So how did they find the boldness? They were filled
• 34:34
  S9: with the Holy Spirit. That's how it happens.
• 34:36
  S5: What's really cool? Um, not that I'm into church growth
• 34:40
  S5: strategies because I think that can be really weird. But
• 34:43
  S5: if you look at a church growth principle, it's right
• 34:45
  S5: here out of that prayer for boldness. I'm getting choked
• 34:47
  S5: up here. You go into chapter five and you don't
• 34:50
  S5: go in too far. Thousands were added to the church
• 34:53
  S5: as a result of this prayer for boldness. Sam.
• 34:55
  S9: Oh, absolutely. And that's the only way it's going to happen.
• 34:59
  S9: Christians have got to to. They've got to trust in
• 35:03
  S9: the sufficiency and the presence of God and the Holy
• 35:05
  S9: Spirit operating through them, knowing that if we step out
• 35:08
  S9: in faith on behalf of the Lord Jesus, he is
• 35:11
  S9: going to meet us there. He's not going to leave
• 35:13
  S9: us abandoned. He's not going to you know, it's not
• 35:16
  S9: only here, but, you know, in Paul's letters, I mean,
• 35:18
  S9: in Ephesians and in Colossians, both of those letters, he
• 35:21
  S9: asked those people and those churches pray for me. That
• 35:24
  S9: boldness would be given to me, that I might know
• 35:26
  S9: how I should speak. I mean, if Paul knew that
• 35:29
  S9: that was essential, certainly we should know it as well.
• 35:32
  S5: Yeah. Okay. So the question here is how do we
• 35:35
  S5: get filled with the Holy Spirit? And I love this
• 35:37
  S5: question because I've heard a lot of people interact with it.
• 35:41
  S5: And there's no passage that you can go to and says,
• 35:44
  S5: these are the four steps, how you get filled with
• 35:46
  S5: the Holy Spirit. So I got to assume there's something
• 35:49
  S5: in the hoop and wharf of our abiding relationship with Christ,
• 35:53
  S5: and how all that will tell us. What have you learned?
• 35:56
  S9: Well, I think I've told you before I have a
• 35:58
  S9: book on the Holy Spirit coming out later this year
• 36:00
  S9: or the first part of 2011. And I have a,
• 36:03
  S9: you know, a whole chapter on being filled with the spirit.
• 36:05
  S9: And you're right, there is no prescribed formula. The only
• 36:09
  S9: thing that we that we have is in Ephesians five,
• 36:12
  S9: where Paul says, be filled with the Holy Spirit. But
• 36:15
  S9: I don't think he's telling us the steps we should
• 36:17
  S9: take in order to make it happen. I think we
• 36:20
  S9: just need to walk closely with Jesus, constantly in touch
• 36:24
  S9: with him, praying at all times, you know, guarding our hearts.
• 36:27
  S9: And then obviously we have to pray for it. We
• 36:29
  S9: have to cry out to the Lord. You know, Jesus
• 36:32
  S9: himself said that if the father will give the Holy
• 36:35
  S9: Spirit to those who ask him. So we just have
• 36:38
  S9: to constantly be saying, Lord, moment by moment. I do
• 36:41
  S9: this every time I preach or teach. Lord, I'm helpless
• 36:43
  S9: without you. Fill me with your spirit. Give me energy,
• 36:46
  S9: give me courage. Give me clarity. Give me boldness. Let
• 36:50
  S9: me say just the right words that will have an
• 36:53
  S9: effect on the lives of your people. I like the
• 36:55
  S9: fact that there's no formula because, you know, we get
• 36:57
  S9: these formulas and we reduce it to a kind of
• 36:59
  S9: a quid pro quo. I'll give you I'll do this
• 37:02
  S9: and you'll give me that. I don't think the Lord
• 37:04
  S9: wants us to live like that. I think he wants
• 37:06
  S9: us to live in just constant awareness of who he is,
• 37:09
  S9: dependence upon his presence and his love. And that's that's
• 37:13
  S9: basically how I understand that.
• 37:15
  S5: Yeah. I was talking with Jim Coakley and yesterday, and
• 37:18
  S5: what's funny about Jim is he's, he was in the
• 37:22
  S5: here's the Bible, this is what you teach. And he
• 37:26
  S5: is very much very open about this saying, yeah, we
• 37:30
  S5: neglected the power of the Holy Spirit and awareness of
• 37:32
  S5: his promptings and guiding, according to John 14 and John 16,
• 37:37
  S5: that that the Spirit's going to guide you. I'm wondering
• 37:41
  S5: if we have a disservice. I love quiet time, but
• 37:46
  S5: the common notion is, boy, I hope the fumes from
• 37:49
  S5: quiet time can carry me through flesh time. In the
• 37:54
  S5: early church, though, they lived with this ever present awareness
• 37:59
  S5: of the Spirit's functioning in their life. Or at least
• 38:02
  S5: it seems that way.
• 38:03
  S9: Sam well, yeah, it does. It's very clear on the
• 38:06
  S9: pages of Scripture. I mean, like I said in the
• 38:08
  S9: book of acts over and over again from the day
• 38:11
  S9: of Pentecost on, uh, every time they were filled with
• 38:14
  S9: the spirit, it says they, they either prophesied or they
• 38:17
  S9: spoke with boldness or there was a miracle or there
• 38:20
  S9: was evangelistic success, not a success. Evangelistic faithfulness. Whether or
• 38:25
  S9: not it was successful or not, which of course, only
• 38:27
  S9: God can determine. But the whole point is, when you're
• 38:31
  S9: filled with the spirit, you can endure the opposition. You
• 38:33
  S9: can endure people spitting in your face or throwing stones
• 38:36
  S9: at you like they did at Stephen. So we have
• 38:39
  S9: to get back to this conscious awareness of the Spirit's
• 38:42
  S9: power and presence and, uh, learn to trust in him.
• 38:45
  S9: And I just love the rest of acts chapter four.
• 38:47
  S9: I think our listeners should read it where they just
• 38:50
  S9: start praising God as the as the sovereign Lord over
• 38:53
  S9: all things. And they knew that he could do for
• 38:58
  S9: them what only he could. And they couldn't. They couldn't
• 39:01
  S9: muster up the strength. They couldn't get together and kind
• 39:03
  S9: of pump each other up and whip each other up
• 39:06
  S9: into some sort of spiritual frenzy. They needed the incredible
• 39:09
  S9: power of the Spirit of God to overcome fear, hesitation, embarrassment, shame,
• 39:14
  S9: whatever else it may be, holding them back.
• 39:16
  S5: Yeah. And I love their prayer. They actually pray for politicians,
• 39:20
  S5: Herod and Pontius Pilate and all the threats that are
• 39:22
  S5: going on. And they're rehearsing for God. You know, we're
• 39:26
  S5: in a situation that's stacked against us. And then you're right.
• 39:29
  S5: They go, God, pour out your power into us. I mean,
• 39:32
  S5: what an awesome prayer.
• 39:34
  S9: Yeah. And that prayer is great because it shows that
• 39:37
  S9: they had such a high view of God's sovereignty. They said, Lord,
• 39:41
  S9: you know, Herod and Pontius Pilate and the Gentiles and
• 39:43
  S9: the people of Israel gathered together to crucify Jesus. And
• 39:47
  S9: they did whatever your hand and your plan had predestined
• 39:49
  S9: to take place. Nothing is outside of your control. And
• 39:52
  S9: if it's so, if we end up, of course, Peter,
• 39:55
  S9: you know, end up according to tradition, was crucified upside down. Yeah. And, uh,
• 39:59
  S9: that also was in the sovereign plan of God. And
• 40:02
  S9: knowing that God is ultimately in control and he's never
• 40:05
  S9: going to leave us or forsake us. That's what bolsters
• 40:08
  S9: the human heart to endure almost anything.
• 40:11
  S5: Do you think the disciples knew they were going to die,
• 40:13
  S5: killed for proclaiming Christ because 11 of 12 were.
• 40:16
  S9: Well, you know, you go back into, uh, into, into
• 40:19
  S9: the upper room discourse where Jesus said, you will have
• 40:21
  S9: tribulation in this world, but I have overcome the world.
• 40:24
  S9: And of course, Paul, who said, those who desire to
• 40:26
  S9: live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. I'm sure
• 40:30
  S9: Jesus talked to them about this all the time and said, guys,
• 40:33
  S9: you just need to understand when I'm gone, it's going
• 40:36
  S9: to get far, far worse than it is right now.
• 40:38
  S9: And what they've done to me, they're going to try
• 40:40
  S9: to do to you. So yeah, I think they did.
• 40:42
  S9: I think they understood.
• 40:43
  S5: Wow. Sam storms by the way, you want to get
• 40:47
  S5: this site, Sam. This is a clearinghouse of good counsel.
• 40:52
  S5: You get to this site and we've got a keyword
• 40:54
  S5: for you. What I love about Sam is he brings
• 40:57
  S5: content that can change the trajectory of your life. Bottom
• 41:01
  S5: line tech storm. One word storm to 800 555, 78, 98.
• 41:07
  S5: One word storm to 800 555, 78, 98.
• 41:14
  S1: Take your next step with Jesus. Today you're listening to
• 41:18
  S1: Carl and crew.
• 41:19
  S5: One of the great freedoms that we have is the
• 41:22
  S5: freedom of religion, the freedom of speech. There are lots
• 41:27
  S5: of freedoms that I really believe God has his handprint
• 41:31
  S5: on with regard to our nation. But the real question is,
• 41:35
  S5: is the defense of Christian Patriotism. Is that okay? Is
• 41:41
  S5: it okay to be patriotic when we're something less than perfect?
• 41:45
  S5: I think some have said no, but I say, yay!
• 41:49
  S5: Let's get after this thing. Let's cheer for what we
• 41:52
  S5: can cheer for. Daniel darling is with me right now.
• 41:55
  S5: He's the author of the book In Defense of Christian Patriotism.
• 41:59
  S5: It's interesting. Daniel, I've been alive a long time, and
• 42:02
  S5: I've seen us go from a kid being raised around
• 42:06
  S5: military parades and big national celebrations to it almost feels
• 42:13
  S5: like there's a group trying to make us feel a
• 42:16
  S5: little bit guilty for celebrating what God's done in our nation,
• 42:20
  S5: even though we're less than perfect. What are your thoughts,
• 42:22
  S5: my man?
• 42:23
  S11: Yeah. I think, you know, the pendulum swings. And I
• 42:26
  S11: think we're in an era now where people are almost
• 42:30
  S11: afraid or ashamed to express their love for their country.
• 42:34
  S11: And I think a lot of Christians feel that way
• 42:36
  S11: because we've been made to feel guilty because, you know,
• 42:38
  S11: we're told that patriotism is always a form of idolatry
• 42:42
  S11: and that, you know, the kingdom of God is first
• 42:44
  S11: and foremost. And I think one of the things I
• 42:46
  S11: try to do in this book is to allow Christians
• 42:49
  S11: to understand that it's not always a binary choice between
• 42:52
  S11: love of God and love of country. If you love
• 42:54
  S11: God supremely, then every other allegiance underneath that can be
• 42:57
  S11: ordered well, and you can, you can love those things
• 43:00
  S11: in a proper way. And I actually argue that it's
• 43:03
  S11: good and right for us to love our country if
• 43:05
  S11: we're to seek the welfare of the city and the
• 43:07
  S11: nation that God has put us in. How do you
• 43:09
  S11: seek the welfare of a country that you loathe or
• 43:11
  S11: you despise, or you're apathetic about?
• 43:13
  S5: Right? Daniel, let's just cut to the chase here. What's
• 43:16
  S5: Christian patriotism look like? What is it and what is it?
• 43:20
  S11: Not really. It's gratitude for the place God has given us.
• 43:24
  S11: It is a love for the people, the culture, the
• 43:27
  S11: ideals of the country. Patriotism doesn't mean we always agree
• 43:32
  S11: with a current administration or current policies or current politicians.
• 43:36
  S11: In fact, sometimes patriotism demands that we oppose certain policies
• 43:41
  S11: or we pose an administration or something like that. Patriotism
• 43:44
  S11: also doesn't mean that we pretend that everything America has
• 43:48
  S11: done in her history is good. I mean, we have
• 43:51
  S11: some dark spots in our history. We have some sins.
• 43:53
  S11: We've been made up of fallen people, and patriotism doesn't
• 43:57
  S11: gloss over those. But what it doesn't do is take
• 44:00
  S11: that thread, those those sins, those bad things we've done,
• 44:04
  S11: and act as if that's the only story. I think
• 44:06
  S11: it tells a more rich story of good and bad.
• 44:10
  S5: We see in our nation today. Daniel Darling, my guest,
• 44:13
  S5: by the way, and I'm going to give you a
• 44:14
  S5: link to this book in just a moment. We see
• 44:16
  S5: in our nation right now a couple different camps. One
• 44:20
  S5: is what I would call kind of toxic Christianity, and
• 44:25
  S5: it's Christian nationalism on steroids. And I think a lot
• 44:28
  S5: of these people that subscribe to that don't even know
• 44:30
  S5: Jesus personally. Okay. I'm not judging them. I'm just saying
• 44:34
  S5: there seems to be some rancor that does not appear
• 44:37
  S5: to be manifesting the fruit of the spirit, for sure.
• 44:40
  S5: Then we hit the other side of that that says, well,
• 44:44
  S5: we don't get involved in politics. I preach Christ and
• 44:46
  S5: Him crucified. Then you got guys like Spurgeon who said,
• 44:50
  S5: if you're a Christ follower, you can't stay out of politics.
• 44:54
  S5: What say you, Daniel darling?
• 44:57
  S11: You know, it's hard to read scripture, particularly the New
• 45:00
  S11: Testament and, um, come away with the idea that Christianity
• 45:04
  S11: is solely a private affair. And when you read scripture, um,
• 45:09
  S11: it's always an outward facing idea. And, you know, obviously
• 45:13
  S11: the primary role of the church is preaching the gospel
• 45:15
  S11: and proclaiming the message of salvation, making disciples. But part
• 45:19
  S11: of disciple making is teaching people how to live on
• 45:21
  S11: mission where God has put them, and particularly those of
• 45:24
  S11: us who are Americans who have the opportunity with our
• 45:28
  S11: voice and our vote to shape the policies and the
• 45:30
  S11: structures that affect us. I don't know how you stay silent.
• 45:34
  S11: How do you say that? You love your neighbor as yourself.
• 45:37
  S11: If you don't speak up for the policies that affect
• 45:39
  S11: your neighbors flourishing? How do you seek the welfare or
• 45:42
  S11: the flourishing of a city that. But you don't get
• 45:45
  S11: involved in shaping it. And that looks different for every
• 45:47
  S11: different person? No. Everyone doesn't isn't called to run for office.
• 45:50
  S11: Some are called to speak out, some are. But the
• 45:53
  S11: very basic level, having a stake, having an impact, I
• 45:56
  S11: think we can do that in a properly ordered way.
• 45:58
  S11: As long as we know that Christ is first. I
• 46:01
  S11: think the problem is not that Christians are engaged in politics.
• 46:04
  S11: The problem is sometimes the way that Christians are engaged.
• 46:08
  S11: And some of those folks you talked about that take
• 46:10
  S11: it too seriously or that make it everything right. There's
• 46:13
  S11: a sort of existential dread. Every election, everything, they're sweating
• 46:16
  S11: and you know, it. It causes them to turn in
• 46:18
  S11: on people. I don't think the problem is that they're
• 46:21
  S11: involved in politics. I think it's just the way that
• 46:22
  S11: they're doing it. It's not Christ like. And so I
• 46:25
  S11: think it'd be hard to live out the commands of
• 46:28
  S11: the New Testament and completely disengage. I mean, think about this.
• 46:32
  S11: If you took Christians out of politics, you would lose
• 46:34
  S11: William Wilberforce. You would lose Martin Luther King Jr. You
• 46:38
  S11: would lose all these people who really made an impact
• 46:41
  S11: and did it because of their faith. And so I
• 46:43
  S11: think it's incumbent on us to do it, but we
• 46:45
  S11: do it in a balanced way. We do it in
• 46:47
  S11: a way that's realistic, that understands that as much as
• 46:50
  S11: we have opportunity to shape the public discourse and laws
• 46:55
  S11: and policies, we're limited. And until Christ returns, those things
• 46:59
  S11: won't be that utopia that many people long for.
• 47:03
  S5: Yeah. Daniel darling, my guest. It's interesting. I'm I saw
• 47:07
  S5: a podcast I'm not going to get into who was
• 47:10
  S5: on it, but it was fascinating to me because the
• 47:13
  S5: discussion ultimately landed on who's responsible for the welfare of
• 47:20
  S5: a nation. And one side was, well, we've got to
• 47:24
  S5: have the government do this because we, the church hasn't
• 47:29
  S5: picked up the slack. Uh, the other guy's saying no.
• 47:32
  S5: Whenever the government gets involved in trying to help society
• 47:36
  S5: in any given culture or nation, that's so complicated with
• 47:41
  S5: all kinds of things like corruption and grift and everything.
• 47:45
  S5: My conviction is, Daniel, the church has got a ways
• 47:47
  S5: to go to fill that gap of the needs of people.
• 47:51
  S5: And I think sometimes we say we don't want government involved,
• 47:55
  S5: but we got to look in a mirror and ask
• 47:56
  S5: the question, are we doing civic duty? Are we showing
• 48:00
  S5: love for nation?
• 48:01
  S11: It's a great question. And, you know, as a church
• 48:03
  S11: attendance declines in America, church attendance has declined probably the
• 48:06
  S11: last 40 years. You know, something has to fill that gap.
• 48:10
  S11: And I also think this has to do with the
• 48:12
  S11: breakdown of the family, because as the family breaks down,
• 48:16
  S11: it creates more needs, more children's needs, more more desperation. And,
• 48:21
  S11: you know, something has to fill that gap. And a
• 48:24
  S11: lot of times it's the state that has to come
• 48:26
  S11: in and and fill those gaps. And the state is
• 48:28
  S11: a poor father. The state is a poor family. And so,
• 48:31
  S11: you know, good Christians are going to disagree where that
• 48:34
  S11: line should be. You know, how much the church can
• 48:36
  S11: do and what can only the government do. And and
• 48:39
  S11: many times in many communities, it's kind of both, right?
• 48:42
  S11: The churches are working with local governments to meet needs.
• 48:45
  S11: Good Christians are going to disagree with that line should
• 48:47
  S11: be I tend to be a limited government person. I
• 48:50
  S11: think that the church and the market and all those
• 48:52
  S11: things really should take the bulk of it. But there
• 48:55
  S11: is a place for a safety net and things like that.
• 48:57
  S11: But when that gets too big, because the family has
• 49:00
  S11: broken down, because you don't have fathers in the home
• 49:03
  S11: and you don't have. And when the church does step
• 49:05
  S11: back from their duties, you know, the state does a
• 49:07
  S11: poor job of doing things that only God is called
• 49:09
  S11: the family in the church to do.
• 49:11
  S5: Yeah, it's so true. Yeah. I actually did a research
• 49:14
  S5: on this, did some research on this just a couple
• 49:17
  S5: of days ago, Daniel. And because you've heard it said
• 49:21
  S5: that sometimes government some of the welfare systems, and let's
• 49:25
  S5: just take welfare from a good term. And that is
• 49:28
  S5: there for the welfare of a person wanting them to
• 49:32
  S5: fare well. We have actually incentivized single parenthood. And I
• 49:37
  S5: went and did a deep dive, only to find out
• 49:40
  S5: it's true in a lot of our cities, in a
• 49:42
  S5: lot of our states, and even through the federal government,
• 49:46
  S5: some of the laws that we have in place incentivize
• 49:49
  S5: the very thing that's crippling us as a people. We
• 49:52
  S5: need to be aware of this, don't we, Daniel?
• 49:54
  S11: Yeah. We do. You know, I think at its best,
• 49:56
  S11: government assistance programs, which I don't think are wrong and
• 50:00
  S11: I don't think are unbiblical on their face at the
• 50:02
  S11: very best, they should be things that help people for
• 50:04
  S11: a season so that they can get a lift up,
• 50:07
  S11: so they can get into the workforce, have meaningful work.
• 50:11
  S11: And of course, there's always going to be people in
• 50:12
  S11: society who, you know, are just, you know, they can't
• 50:16
  S11: they can't work for a variety of reasons because of,
• 50:18
  S11: you know, disabilities and all these kinds of things. So we,
• 50:21
  S11: we do have that. But as you said, that the
• 50:23
  S11: system should not be designed to keep people in a
• 50:26
  S11: permanent state of dependence, but to get them up, get
• 50:29
  S11: them functioning and working because, you know, as you said it,
• 50:34
  S11: and sometimes it can incentivize poor family structures. It can
• 50:37
  S11: work against marriage, for instance, that there's penalties when you
• 50:40
  S11: get married, you get less assistance. And so we, I
• 50:42
  S11: think we need to work through those things to make
• 50:44
  S11: sure that our tax dollars are incentivizing things that are
• 50:47
  S11: actually good for the flourishing of society, and particularly the family.
• 50:51
  S11: I think the structure of the family, to me, is
• 50:53
  S11: one of the most important things in society. If you
• 50:55
  S11: care about poverty, if you care about child welfare, all
• 51:00
  S11: that flows from a breakdown of a family. And I
• 51:02
  S11: think this is an area where the church can really
• 51:04
  S11: step in and, and help struggling families in their communities,
• 51:07
  S11: help struggling marriages, encourage marriage and family, encourage responsible fatherhood.
• 51:12
  S5: Ken, a radically committed follower of Jesus, get elected to
• 51:17
  S5: public office today.
• 51:19
  S11: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think there's a
• 51:21
  S11: lot of good Christians running for office and trying to
• 51:24
  S11: do the best they can. I think that the challenge
• 51:26
  S11: is to live as a follower of Jesus in that
• 51:29
  S11: space and understand that even in the political space, God
• 51:33
  S11: requires us, expects us to, to follow him, to live
• 51:37
  S11: out the fruit of the spirit. You know, I think
• 51:39
  S11: sometimes we think, well, I'm, I'm standing up for what's right.
• 51:41
  S11: So it doesn't really matter how I act or I
• 51:43
  S11: conduct myself. We need Christians of courage and conviction to
• 51:47
  S11: stand up and do public service, because when Christians receive,
• 51:51
  S11: what fills that vacuum is often worse.
• 51:53
  S5: Daniel Darling, my guest, and he's written a book called
• 51:56
  S5: In Defense of Christian Patriotism Equipping Believers for Political Theology,
• 52:01
  S5: Civic Duty, and Love of Nation. It's a great work.
• 52:05
  S5: I want you to check it out. Just text the
• 52:07
  S5: word book right now. Book simple word text book to
• 52:10
  S5: 805 557898. Text book to 805 557898.