Latest / Business-First Creatives: Client Experience & Systems for Service Providers / You're Sending Emails. Why Isn't Anyone Clicking?

Transcript

You're Sending Emails. Why Isn't Anyone Clicking? · Business-First Creatives: Client Experience & Systems for Service Providers

0:00
Colie: Hey, y'all.
0:01
Colie: Welcome back.
0:02
Colie: So I have a confession to make.
0:04
Colie: Today's guest lives, like, 20 miles from me, and I have never actually met her in person.
0:10
Colie: And I was really hoping that by the time she came for this interview, that we were gonna have seen each other in person and hugged.
0:17
Colie: And then I was like, "It's okay.
0:18
Colie: We're gonna record this episode, and then I'm gonna do it before."
0:21
Colie: But literally, we are recording this, like, three days before it's gonna air, so that's not gonna happen again.
0:27
Colie: But today's guest has been in my world for more than four years.
0:32
Colie: Um, I actually hired her to put this podcast out into the world a gazillion years ago.
0:39
Colie: And now she has shifted, just like a lot of people do, into a different niche, a different offer, and I'm obsessed with what she currently does in her business.
0:49
Colie: And fun fact, she is the reason that I am currently obsessed with all things AI coding.
0:55
Colie: So Jocelyn, finally, welcome to Business First Creatives.
0:59
Jocelyn: That might be like the biggest honorary part because you have made that your whole personality now.
1:06
Colie: I have, and I, I tell people this, I even posted it in the new group that we joined together, the CEO Social Club.
1:13
Colie: But Jocelyn is the reason that I built the Systems Professor app and why I now have four other tools that are, like, so close to being done.
1:22
Colie: In fact, one of them I put two beta users in today and yesterday, Jocelyn.
1:26
Colie: But the whole reason that I built it was when I saw what Jocelyn built, I was literally like, "If Jocelyn built this, so can I.
1:34
Colie: Why am I waiting?"
1:35
Colie: And then I sat down and literally voice noted Jocelyn as I drove from Boulder home after having, uh, brunch with one of my clients, and I got home and I started coding, and 12 hours later, I had a
1:49
Colie: fully fledged actionable app, and I was just like, "Why did it take me so long?"
1:56
Colie: But let's take a step backwards, Jocelyn.
1:58
Colie: I originally hired you to help me put this podcast out into the world, and I think I've told this story on the podcast before, but I'm gonna say it 'cause it's been over four years now.
2:08
Colie: I hired Jocelyn because I met her in Done!
2:11
Colie: In a Day, and she at that point had a VIP day related to getting your podcast published.
2:19
Colie: And I'll never forget, we got on our VIP day, and I was like, "Okay, but how long is this gonna take?"
2:24
Colie: And Jocelyn was like, "You know, our goal is, like, six to eight weeks."
2:26
Colie: I was like, "No, three weeks.
2:28
Colie: This has to be done.
2:29
Colie: Like, if I could, I would publish it on Friday.
2:31
Colie: Like, let's go."
2:32
Colie: And she was like, "You're gonna need more time."
2:34
Colie: And no, it took less than three weeks because I want it out into the world because I've been sitting on this podcast idea for what felt like forever."
2:43
Colie: But Jocelyn, what made you go initially from podcasting to case studies?
2:49
Colie: 'Cause we're not even at your current offer yet.
2:51
Colie: We're gonna take that hop first.
2:53
Jocelyn: Um, okay, so podcasting to case studies was really when I had my podcast stuff going, case study episodes were the number one highest converting.
3:04
Jocelyn: It was something I built into the strategy on everybody's podcast.
3:07
Jocelyn: You're gonna have your educational episodes, you're gonna have your case study interviews, and then you're gonna have guest interviews.
3:13
Jocelyn: Those...
3:13
Jocelyn: That was, like, the three things that made up your strategy, and they each served a different pur- purpose.
3:18
Jocelyn: And the case study interviews just crushed, and then those clients were writing really good emails because they had all of that data from their case studies.
3:28
Jocelyn: But I realized other people I was helping with emails, because they didn't have a podcast, they weren't doing case study interviews, they didn't have, like, case studies.
3:37
Jocelyn: And I was like, "You guys, you don't even have, like, screenshots or testimonials or just even, like, basic wins from, like, week one progress, month one progress to just even include wins or any kind of results in your
3:52
Jocelyn: emails."
3:53
Jocelyn: Like, 'cause I'm a big advocate of, like, not just the big, sexy results at the end of, like, working with somebody for 12 months or something like that, but I'm about, like, the little progress results, the little implementation
4:03
Jocelyn: results, like, the more proof you can provide about each part of your offer.
4:08
Jocelyn: And people didn't have anything, and I was like, "Well, that's why this content's not converting, 'cause you have no proof to back up anything you're saying."
4:15
Jocelyn: And so then I made the case study offer.
4:18
Jocelyn: Um, and it started off as kind of like it was kind of like a VIP day upfront.
4:24
Jocelyn: We did a sprint, like three-hour intensive type of thing, and then, um, I offered them a bit of support in that first month to get the collection system going, get the case studies collected, and write their first couple
4:36
Jocelyn: of case studies, and then they were off on their own, and now it's over to email.
4:43
Colie: Okay, so let's talk about email, because you firmly believe that, like, all business owners should be making significant revenue from email.
4:53
Colie: And guys, I bought Jocelyn's app.
4:56
Colie: I also joined her offer Best Seller because I am not afraid of sending emails.
5:01
Colie: If you're on my email list, you know this.
5:03
Colie: I will email you multiple times a day, but I am not selling a significant amount of any of my offers through email, which is still quite puzzling considering how often I email them.
5:15
Colie: Do you know where the sales come from?
5:17
Colie: Sales come from this podcast.
5:19
Colie: And I will email my list about podcast episodes, and they don't get clicks.
5:24
Colie: But I did find that transition when I first saw you offering Best Seller.
5:29
Colie: I was like, "Oh, well, emails.
5:30
Colie: I mean, I'm sending emails."
5:32
Colie: And it wasn't until I started actually listening to your message where you're like, "You're sending emails and people are not clicking."
5:39
Colie: I was like, "Yeah, my click rates are in the toilet.
5:42
Colie: That's true."
5:43
Colie: And then you would, you know, you would say, "You need to be sharing your proof."
5:45
Colie: And I'm like, "Okay, but I do that all day, every day of the week."
5:49
Colie: I'm like, "But yeah, it's not converting."
5:51
Colie: And so did you end up having...
5:54
Colie: Like, was the transition, if you will, from case studies to email, did a lot of people follow you in that were the people that you helped with case studies the same people that ended up following you into Best
6:06
Colie: Seller to continue to get your help from email, or did that end up being a different audience completely?
6:13
Jocelyn: Um, it was kind of different.
6:15
Jocelyn: I would say a portion of people continued into Best Seller.
6:20
Jocelyn: Um, but my case study offer typically attracted, like, somebody more established, b- where they were at the point of like, "Whoa, my case studies, like, I know I get my clients incredible results, but my offer looks like, you
6:36
Jocelyn: know, I've got my first five clients," type of vibe.
6:39
Jocelyn: So they were like, "Oh, I've got lots of clients in here.
6:41
Jocelyn: I really need to be not only, like, capturing their end results, like, I need to see their progress the whole way through."
6:47
Jocelyn: Especially also, you know, people are very mindful of, like, wanting to make sure the majority of their clients get results, so when they start scaling and it's not just 5 or 10 clients anymore, and it's 20, 50, 100
6:59
Jocelyn: clients, they're like, "Oh my gosh, like, how am I keeping track of all of that," right?
7:03
Jocelyn: So that system also helped with that.
7:05
Jocelyn: So it was a, it was a bit different, but I, I partly did it because I was like, "Oh, now I'm seeing them.
7:11
Jocelyn: They have these incredible case studies, but now their other emails are kinda carrying the weight."
7:17
Jocelyn: So now they need, you know, the full, like, the full sales content, and I've always done a lot of sales content related stuff.
7:25
Jocelyn: Um, but I was just like, "Okay, you know, the case study offer is just so, so niche and such a specific time period and things like that.
7:34
Jocelyn: I can help with all of the sales content, including case studies in a larger p- you know, program and offer
7:42
Colie: And I mean, being in Best Seller, you are not teaching us how to make case studies.
7:45
Colie: Like, I don't recall that there's a specific lesson on that.
7:48
Colie: But there is a lot of content on collecting your results and using it in your emails and, like, doing this.
7:53
Colie: So I always love to hear about the trajectory of how someone works with someone, and I really do see the path for you of you were helping people put podcasts into the world, and then it was like, okay,
8:04
Colie: but we don't just talk at people to talk.
8:06
Colie: Like, there has to be some conversion going on, and then we're doing the case studies, which is showing people the results that we're getting.
8:12
Colie: And then you're like, okay, but like, again, it can't just be limited to these one, two, three podcast episodes where you're interviewing your clients.
8:21
Colie: You need to be sharing this in other mediums, and so that brought you over to Best Seller.
8:26
Colie: But it is interesting that you feel like the case study offer was for more established business owners, and Best Seller is for people who are less established, because email is something that you should be using to communicate with
8:41
Colie: your wider audience, even if you haven't helped 50, 100, 200 clients yet to get the results that you want.
8:49
Colie: So let's talk about the app.
8:51
Colie: So before we hit record, you were like, "Well, originally I just created this app for my Best Seller clients because they needed help."
8:58
Colie: But like, what...
8:59
Colie: Do you remember a moment or, like, when you had this aha of, "Okay, I'm teaching them how to write better emails, but how can I make it easier?"
9:08
Colie: Was there, like, a moment that just was an aha moment?
9:11
Colie: 'Cause I don't think that you ever set out to be like, "Ooh, let me go code something today."
9:17
Colie: I don't think you had the, um, the vision of being a SaaS founder.
9:22
Jocelyn: No.
9:22
Jocelyn: Um, it, it, it really started with myself.
9:28
Jocelyn: Um, obviously seeing my clients, but it started with myself too, because, like, I, I know what goes into a high converting email, right?
9:35
Jocelyn: Like, I have the sales messaging, the positioning, the structure, like, all of the copy tactics, like, all of that in my head.
9:41
Jocelyn: I know what goes into it, and it still takes me a long time to open a Google Doc and write emails.
9:47
Jocelyn: And I send a lot of emails.
9:49
Jocelyn: I run campaigns, which are large sets of batches of emails for a warm-up period, for wait list period, for open cart period, for all these different things that have so many emails.
10:00
Jocelyn: And I remember it was, like, last fall, um, I needed to write campaign emails, and we were going on vacation, and I was writing emails while in the business class lounge while my husband was enjoying his mimosas while
10:13
Jocelyn: flying from Denver to LAX.
10:17
Jocelyn: Um, on that flight, I was like, you know, I was like, "Great, I won't have anything to do for four hours.
10:22
Jocelyn: Let me get in the zone and just do that."
10:24
Jocelyn: And it was miserable, because I was, like, just trying to pump things out and just get it done, and it was taking me so long.
10:31
Jocelyn: And then I was like, there was a particular email when I came back that I was writing and working on, um, where I just, like, couldn't get my thought out of my head.
10:40
Jocelyn: So I was like, "You know what?
10:41
Jocelyn: Let me take Tucker for a walk."
10:43
Jocelyn: Tucker's my dog.
10:44
Jocelyn: We went on a walk, and I was like, "I'm just gonna voice note it out into the voice memo app, it, um, that, like, comes on the iPhone.
10:50
Jocelyn: I'll grab the transcription, and then I'll just be able to, like, find the gems."
10:54
Jocelyn: Like, 'cause I just needed to talk out the concept.
10:57
Jocelyn: That worked really well.
10:58
Jocelyn: I got home, put it into a Google Doc, and just started, like, revising it, and I was like, "That's how I need to write emails from now on."
11:05
Jocelyn: So I started this whole process by building individual Claude skills for myself.
11:12
Jocelyn: So I took one of the types of emails that I wrote, I built a skill around it, and then created that skill just for myself and just started using that one type of email.
11:22
Jocelyn: Because I was like, okay, taking the transcript and putting it into the Google Doc still requires me to do, like, a lot of restructuring, a lot of cutting, you know, parts that rambled, like, I didn't get to the
11:31
Jocelyn: point until five minutes in, you know?
11:33
Jocelyn: Like, that type of thing.
11:35
Jocelyn: So there was still a lot of work to do.
11:38
Jocelyn: Um, so I developed the skill around each type of email that I write so that it would be able to extract what was in my rambling voice note, put it into the right flow, add in some, like, conversion
11:52
Jocelyn: copy tactics in there, and then I wouldn't have to do as much editing when I got back to my desk.
11:57
Jocelyn: And then it obviously led into the app.
12:00
Colie: I mean, Jocelyn, I literally can't believe that it took you that long to realize that voice noting was where it's at.
12:05
Colie: I guess as a podcaster, like I like to talk, you know I like to talk.
12:09
Colie: I'm always like, no.
12:10
Colie: Like, and we discovered pretty early on, 'cause I've had a blog writer now for, oh my gosh, like three years, and it was really funny.
12:19
Colie: 'Cause you hire a blog writer and they go do your research, right?
12:21
Colie: And then they come back to you with the topics.
12:23
Colie: And it wasn't very far working with Cara where she would bring me in, I'm like, "Oh, no, no, I already have like a podcast episode on that.
12:30
Colie: Here's the transcript."
12:32
Colie: And then she would bring me more topics and I'm like, "Well, actually, if you just look at this episode and this episode, like that'll give you all my thoughts on that.
12:39
Colie: Here you go."
12:40
Colie: And so it didn't take us very long to where I was like, "Here's what we're gonna do going forward.
12:44
Colie: You're gonna give me a topic, and if I don't already have a podcast episode, I will record one, or I will just give you voice notes and then you can go write it."
12:54
Colie: You having helped podcasters, I just can't believe that voice noting didn't come to you earlier.
13:01
Jocelyn: Mm-hmm.
13:01
Jocelyn: Yeah, and it's interesting because when I used to work full-time as a director of content for another expert, I planned her monthly...
13:10
Jocelyn: I did all of her content, her Instagram, her emails, her YouTube scripts, her IGTV scripts.
13:18
Colie: That just dated when you worked
13:19
Jocelyn: That is old.
13:22
Jocelyn: Like, all of her carousels, all of her IG stories, all of her articles, like literally everything.
13:27
Jocelyn: And so what I did was I was either referencing her curriculum or I was asking her to send me voice notes, and she would just send them over via Slack, and I would listen or copy the transcript from
13:40
Jocelyn: Slack and then have what I needed for, like, the content I needed for the month.
13:44
Jocelyn: So the app is built on what I used to do.
13:46
Jocelyn: I don't know why I never thought just to do that myself when writing emails, because so much of us are just so much n- more natural speaking about what we do.
13:57
Jocelyn: Like, we know what our expertise is.
13:59
Jocelyn: It's like when we sit down and now we're trying to think about our expertise, think about, like, the right flow, think about sentence structure, think about sales psychology and messaging and copy tactics, that it all gets, like, jambled
14:12
Jocelyn: up and something that, like, should in theory take us five minutes to answer, like, is taking us an hour because it's like, computing everything at once.
14:22
Colie: And the one thing about the app, because a lot of people are like, "Okay, but Colie, like Jocelyn's app, does it make you sound like AI?"
14:27
Colie: I'm like, "No."
14:28
Colie: But honestly, the thing that I am screaming at it sometimes is, you are making that sound too formal.
14:34
Colie: Like, I want my emails to sound like rambling thoughts.
14:38
Colie: I want it to sound like a conversation.
14:40
Colie: I want it to sound very natural.
14:42
Colie: Like, that is my style of communicating.
14:44
Colie: And so yes, I want it to make me sound smart, but sometimes it takes it like one level too far and I'm like, "No, that's way too structured for me to have written that.
14:54
Colie: Like, take it back two levels.
14:55
Colie: Go back to what I actually told you and pull my language back in."
14:59
Colie: Like, you polished it, it's great, but like, don't do that.
15:02
Jocelyn: Yeah, and I will say, like, it is AI, so sometimes it does, like, get And sometimes I can tell when, like, Claude's, like, updated their model, 'cause it runs, you know, on And I'm like, "Mm, these are a
15:12
Jocelyn: little bit different."
15:13
Jocelyn: So what I will do, Colie, is two things.
15:16
Jocelyn: Number one, I will build We have, in the writer area, there are quick edits where you can just hit something.
15:21
Jocelyn: So, like, there's one in case any AI slop gets through the cracks there, even though I have, like, an 80,000-word guidebook on what it's not allowed to do.
15:33
Jocelyn: You can just hit the, like, AI slop sweep as a quick edit, and it'll pull that out.
15:37
Jocelyn: But what I'll do in there is I will add something that's like, "Make this more conversational, make this more chill, make this more in the words that I gave you in the voice note."
15:46
Jocelyn: So if that happens, we can just have, like, that really quick edit there.
15:50
Jocelyn: But also, if you haven't already gone into your voice and tone area and dialed up the tone on, like, playfulness, conversational, chill vibes, make sure you have it just put it all the way to the max.
16:03
Colie: Do you know what I need you to do?
16:05
Colie: So I follow you religiously, right?
16:07
Colie: When you're posting in Slack, when you're sending us emails, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, like that's such a good idea.
16:10
Colie: Thank you for giving that to us."
16:12
Colie: But I think sometimes I don't go back and like make the adjustment.
16:16
Colie: So like what you said about my brain, like I don't think that I've touched the dials at all because you added those after I did my initial, um, brain.
16:25
Colie: And so unless it's like something that I'm actively using, I think I do forget to like go back in.
16:31
Colie: But I also just wanna put like a quick sprinkle in here.
16:33
Colie: This is one of my favorite reasons for buying something like this because the way that you can integrate the feedback...
16:41
Colie: By the way, guys, uh, Jocelyn actually gave me a prize because I found the most bugs in the app.
16:47
Colie: I literally think that is so much fun to like run through and
16:50
Jocelyn: got the big bug
16:51
Colie: yes, and like tell you the things that are wrong.
16:53
Colie: And I...
16:53
Colie: One of the people that is doing that for me, I added her in today.
16:57
Colie: She's like, "Oh yeah, I gotta go into the app," and like, and I'm like, "Yes, and anything that feels off, let me know."
17:03
Colie: Uh, but it's really good when you get like real users in there because while something makes sense to you in the layout or the way that you've worded it, when you get actual humans in there and they're going
17:13
Colie: through and they're like, "Mm, I think I know what you meant here, but like I don't think that it came across the way that you wanted it to, so can you change this one thing?"
17:20
Colie: But like, look, I told her what I wanted, and I guarantee you by tomorrow morning there's gonna be a new little thing that's like, "Make more conversational."
17:28
Colie: It's one of, it, it's one of the things that I did an episode with Kara a couple weeks ago, and we said everyone's an AI expert now.
17:37
Colie: And so I think anybody can pretty much build anything now with AI, but it doesn't mean that it's good.
17:43
Colie: It doesn't mean that it works as expected.
17:46
Colie: And like this is that like layer of expertise that you will still bring to the app that someone else doesn't because, you know, you built it for yourself, you built it on your email frameworks and what they all
17:58
Colie: do.
17:59
Colie: And so you have not just created something that writes emails like everybody else.
18:03
Colie: It is definitely with your perspective, with your frameworks, and that's what makes the conversions so much better when the app spits out the emails
18:12
Jocelyn: Yeah.
18:12
Jocelyn: And I will say, like, it's, this is not for, like, the lighthearted to go out and build.
18:19
Jocelyn: Yeah, like, and then I'm like, this is like, it has been a beast, like, because I wanna make sure that it's at the point Colie's talking about.
18:27
Jocelyn: Like, I knew on day one launching it, 'cause I, I initially launched it to clients first.
18:33
Jocelyn: The version that went out to clients a month before I even decided to launch it publicly was day and night different than what I launched to the public, because just even having, like, five really active people in it
18:45
Jocelyn: gave me so much more feedback.
18:47
Jocelyn: And I was like, "If this is gonna be something that somebody actually sticks with and is using every single month to write their emails, like, I've gotta step it up."
18:55
Jocelyn: Launched it, but I take feedback.
18:58
Jocelyn: I am active in the Slack channel every day looking for anybody giving me any kind of feedback on a new feature that they want, whatever.
19:05
Jocelyn: I'm using the app every day, so I'm seeing different use cases, 'cause I'm like, "Oh, I'm writing a funnel for the first time since I've had this.
19:11
Jocelyn: Oh, I'm doing this for the first time and we need this."
19:13
Jocelyn: So, like, I am shipping big and small updates weekly, if not every other day.
19:20
Jocelyn: It was definitely every single hour, like, in the first month of having new people come in and making sure everything was, like, tight.
19:27
Jocelyn: If there was a bug, like, fixing it within literally an hour of them telling me of that.
19:33
Jocelyn: Um, and now it's at the point where now I'm working on, like, larger, sexier features.
19:38
Jocelyn: But now I'm like, I roll them out to my Best Seller clients before the rest of the app users so that we have a little triage so Colie can go through and find all the bugs before I roll
19:48
Jocelyn: it out to
19:48
Colie: Colie can go through.
19:49
Colie: That is honestly true.
19:51
Colie: Um, let's actually talk about the building because, you know, I don't think that people understand how time-intensive it is, but I actually have a build document.
20:00
Colie: Did I share that with you?
20:01
Colie: Have you seen my build document?
20:02
Jocelyn: I don't think so
20:03
Colie: Okay, so I'm gonna send it to you after this 'cause you need to create one if you haven't created it, and you can go
20:07
Jocelyn: I just have texts back to myself and notes in my
20:10
Colie: backwards.
20:11
Colie: It will actually work from your GitHub commits.
20:14
Colie: That's actually what mine is built on, so I have proof.
20:18
Colie: I have a timeline for every single feature that I shipped and every time that I updated and refined and all of it.
20:24
Colie: And so every couple days I'll just tell it, "Update the build doc," and it goes in and it adds, you know, what I've done in the last few days.
20:32
Colie: And so it's been really good for me 'cause my app has been out for six weeks.
20:35
Colie: I mean, yours has been out for even longer, but the Systems Professor app, I, I can't remember what order I did things in.
20:42
Colie: I don't remember.
20:42
Colie: I mean, I was so sleep deprived getting four hours of sleep a night, I, I don't know.
20:47
Colie: I don't have any idea what I built for some days unless I go look at this, this, um, document.
20:52
Colie: So I would really recommend that you go and do it so that, you know, you can see how long the different features took.
20:58
Colie: I, I think it's, I think it's interesting.
21:00
Colie: I think that it's, like, fascinating to look at how people build these things.
21:03
Colie: But what was your initial build period?
21:07
Colie: Like, how long did it take you from the moment that you started coding until, like, the first iteration of the working app was, like, there, even if you were the only person using it?
21:17
Jocelyn: Yeah, I wanna say it was probably like two weeks, but it was very much like five different styles of emails.
21:28
Jocelyn: Right now it's at like 30 plus.
21:30
Jocelyn: Um, and it was only the voice note feature and the voice and tone brain.
21:37
Jocelyn: Like, there was not the planner, the ideas, like anything that it does now.
21:43
Jocelyn: It was just being able to like, okay, the writing part takes so long, I at least have ideas my human brain came up with and things like that.
21:52
Jocelyn: Let me just be able to write it in this thing without needing to like, you know, go into Claude and call in all of these different skills to try to write it.
22:01
Jocelyn: 'Cause that was actually like the point where I realized it needed to be an app, was I had so many different skills working together to make one.
22:09
Jocelyn: Like, I have a subject line generator skill, a PS line skill, the skill for each of the different types of emails, the skill for anti-AI slop.
22:18
Jocelyn: Like, you know, all of those different skills and I was like, "Oh, to get the actual email I'm like trying to call in like 50 skills," yeah, "at once for one email."
22:28
Jocelyn: Yeah, and it was like, "Ugh," yeah, it was not liking that.
22:31
Jocelyn: So that's when I was actually like, "Okay, I think it needs to be an app where it can like have a behind-the-scenes, like this multi-step process, and then do that."
22:40
Jocelyn: So that f- very, very first version was just the voice note thing, and if you go on my Instagram, there's a video.
22:45
Jocelyn: And I'm like, "Am I Steve Jobs?"
22:48
Jocelyn: Like because I felt like so innovative, and I was like, I didn't even know what I was capable of building, 'cause I was just so excited that I even was able to do anything like that.
23:01
Colie: I mean, and listen, just so that you know that you're not alone, it was almost two years ago when I created my first GPT that built workflows, like it designed the Dubsado workflows, and I worked on that thing
23:12
Colie: for like five days straight, and it only had one job.
23:17
Colie: Take this thing that I told you and like write the workflows.
23:20
Colie: And again, that's very technical.
23:22
Colie: It took me a really long time to get it, you know, where I wanted it, but five straight days.
23:27
Colie: And having done that and then built my GPT to write emails for my clients and like a bunch of other things, I came to the same conclusion as you.
23:36
Colie: Because when people were working with me in order to do their systems build, they were doing a voice snapshot, which is similar to your brain.
23:43
Colie: They were doing their voice and tone, and then they were, you know, mapping out their client journey in one GPT, and then they had to take it from there and copy and paste it into the other one, 'cause
23:54
Colie: connections weren't really a thing when I first created these things.
23:57
Colie: And then it was giving them the workflow build.
24:00
Colie: So I wanted to, number one, protect my IP, and number two, I wanted everything to talk to each other.
24:06
Colie: I was exhausted myself when I was helping a client copy and paste from one to the next, and it was just like, oh my gosh, I'm spending so much time sitting at the computer doing one thing in one
24:16
Colie: GPT, putting it in another.
24:18
Colie: I was like, I just, I need an app.
24:19
Colie: And it had been on my list of things to do for like six or seven months until I saw your app and I was like, "You know what?
24:26
Colie: I have a birthday sabbatical.
24:28
Colie: I don't have any clients for the next two weeks.
24:30
Colie: Let's see what we can do."
24:32
Colie: And you know, I was really proud of the end result, like you.
24:35
Colie: I was like, okay, I feel like my first iteration was a little further along than yours though,
24:39
Jocelyn: Yeah.
24:40
Colie: because I had all of those things that I had built before and I was like, ooh, if I just put it all together.
24:46
Colie: And I personally realized, which I'm pretty sure you did too, like what I was able to put together in the app was actually so much better than I ever could have imagined, especially with the mapping of your client
24:59
Colie: journey.
24:59
Colie: Like visually, it is just so much better than anything that they were doing with a piece of paper and a pen or even the Notion planner.
25:08
Jocelyn: It's such a good point though because, like, that, I mean, that was...
25:11
Jocelyn: This is why we built these tools is because implementation of these things, the learning curve of, like, how to map out your voice, how to, you know, sequence out your client experience, how to write high-converting emails.
25:24
Jocelyn: Like, the learning curve there, the time it took to, like, first watch videos, and then learn that, and then follow this, and then get it reviewed, and then make...
25:34
Jocelyn: Is, like, so long, and as business owners, it's like, "Well, how can we solve the problems that are, like, keeping that there," right?
25:41
Jocelyn: And so that's why I think these are very well-received tools and will continue to be because it's like you took something that has such a high learning curve and such, like, a thing that do- Like, you, if you
25:54
Jocelyn: have to learn it, like, you have to watch the videos or you have to do that, you know?
25:58
Jocelyn: And if we can reduce that or, like, eliminate unnecessary steps and you start learning by doing, and you start learning by just, like, seeing it be done for you and pieces like that, then it's like, "Oh my gosh,
26:10
Jocelyn: it's so much easier now."
26:12
Jocelyn: Like, and that's our goal as business owners is to solve those problems, make things faster, make things easier, et cetera, you know?
26:18
Jocelyn: So, like, that's the part of my brain that gets really lit up because I'm like, I like to s- I'm a Virgo sun, Virgo rising, so, like, very much coded that I like to solve problems.
26:30
Jocelyn: So I'm looking for, like, how can we just, like, solve whatever that problem is and make it as easy as possible for people?
26:37
Colie: Now, I didn't think I was Steve Jobs.
26:39
Colie: I just realized I have to come back around to this.
26:41
Colie: I didn't have that moment, but when I told my husband what I built and I showed it to him, he goes, "Oh my God, are you gonna, like, sell it in the Google App Store?"
26:49
Colie: I was like, "No."
26:50
Colie: And then I was like, "Oh."
26:53
Colie: And then I showed it to my podcast manager and she's like, "Are you gonna, are you gonna sell this?
26:57
Colie: Are you gonna build it for other people?"
26:59
Colie: I was like, "No."
27:00
Colie: And then I took a shower and I was like, "Oh, actually, I really do enjoy building these things.
27:05
Colie: May- maybe I will actually build some things for other people."
27:08
Colie: So I mean, I feel like not only did I create an app that helped me run my business better, helped me work with my clients better, like you said, like, I have a whole suite of SaaS products at
27:18
Colie: this point that are gonna be launched by the end of the year, and it just...
27:22
Colie: I don't know that any of it would've been possible if I hadn't just seen the Email Studio app that you created and was, like, so inspired by everything you did.
27:33
Colie: And you know what?
27:34
Colie: I feel like I should tell you about one of the features that I have in mind, because you should probably, um, put it in yours.
27:42
Colie: Yes.
27:43
Colie: So this wouldn't be for, like, your email at people because, you know, they just, they're...
27:47
Colie: I, I don't wanna say they're renting the app from you, but, you know, it's just a subscription.
27:51
Colie: But one thing that you might wanna think about for the Best Seller people is, you know, when we're submitting emails to you for review, we're, like, copying and pasting them and putting them in a Google Doc.
28:01
Colie: In mine, when my people write their emails and they save them to the library, there's a little button that says Send to Colie, and they click the button, and then they can choose up to 10, 'cause I don't
28:10
Colie: want people sending me a gazillion emails.
28:12
Colie: But I even recently did it where they send it to me, I send them back their feedback, and then if they revise it and they resubmit it, it kinda looks like a Google Doc.
28:21
Colie: Like, it shows me their original, and then it shows me their edits so that I'm not trying to guess what I told them to fix, how they fixed it, and if the new email works.
28:31
Colie: But I could totally see that working for us Best Seller people.
28:34
Colie: I mean, very selfishly, I'm, I want it for myself, because every time I'm like, "Oh, well then d- send the emails to Jocelyn," I gotta go put them in a Google Doc, and then I gotta send them.
28:44
Jocelyn: I'm at least working on a Google Doc download option where you can export them, so at least bare minimum that.
28:51
Jocelyn: Um, because I do have some people who are, um, number one, who have VAs that schedule their emails, and they, only Kit and OnCharge are able to one-click draft
29:02
Colie: my favorite thing you've built.
29:04
Colie: No bullshit.
29:04
Colie: I was in the car the other day and voice noted myself an email, and it wrote it, and then I clicked the button, and it went to Encharge, and then I opened Encharge on my phone.
29:13
Colie: And for me, it is a little different.
29:14
Colie: I don't know what the kit looks like, but in Encharge, like it brings it over in a blank email that has no template, and we don't have templates that we can apply.
29:23
Colie: So what I had to do was create a brand-new snippet to be my footer and a brand-new snippet to be my header.
29:30
Colie: And so when it brings the email in, I'm just adding the header, adding the footer, and then I can schedule it and make it go.
29:37
Colie: But no, when you...
29:38
Colie: When I...
29:38
Colie: Oh my gosh, I was in love.
29:40
Colie: I'm like, I don't ever...
29:41
Colie: C- can you tell copying and pasting is like the bane of my existence?
29:45
Colie: I think I've mentioned that like 20 times in this interview.
29:48
Colie: I fucking hate the amount of time that it takes me to copy and paste between tools.
29:53
Colie: You know, just I hate it.
29:55
Colie: It takes so much
29:56
Jocelyn: Yeah.
29:57
Jocelyn: And then so, like, a lot of people where they can't do the one click, they have their VA, you know, scheduling their emails.
30:02
Jocelyn: But it's like, how can I get my VA just, like, a batch of these so she doesn't have to, like, look through the app or something?
30:09
Jocelyn: Or I have a couple clients who, who are actually using it with consent with their done-for-you clients, and so they wanna be able to give those emails to those clients to review, but I don't have, like, a review
30:21
Jocelyn: function in the app in that, like, done-for-you way, 'cause there's not enough people doing that yet.
30:26
Jocelyn: If we get there, I promise I will do that for you
30:29
Colie: think it should be an add-on.
30:30
Colie: Yes
30:31
Jocelyn: but, um, but yeah, so I am working on something like that so we can at least, like, export things into a Google Doc really easily so that we can do that.
30:40
Colie: so let's actually bring it back around to one of the features that I think people should care about the most, and I think I had the most input about it when you, when you put it out there.
30:49
Colie: Um, Jocelyn has found a way for us to not only do your...
30:53
Colie: I call it a voice snapshot, she calls it voice and tone, your, your voice, your tone, your brand document.
30:58
Colie: But adding in the social proof was, like, literally the highlight of my day except for publishing the End Charge.
31:04
Colie: It's still second to that.
31:05
Colie: But Jocelyn has a way where you can bring in your onboarding forms, your weekly transcripts with your clients, and you can tag it for the different offers that you have in the app, so that when you are writing
31:18
Colie: an e- Like, if I wanted to write an email about the experience edit, and I wanna make sure that I have some proof related to a certain topic or a certain thing that I'm talking about, I can just
31:28
Colie: click a few buttons and it will go over to my brain, and it will pull in all of that information, and it just makes the email so much better so that I don't have to go and look inside
31:38
Colie: of a Google Drive or a Notion dashboard or whatever it is, and go find the proof myself.
31:43
Colie: All of it is saved in the app, waiting for you to use and reuse over and over again.
31:50
Jocelyn: Yes.
31:51
Jocelyn: And for my screenshot people, 'cause this is, like, huge, because this is a thing I would give clients, like adding any type of client proof, whether it's soft proof, like screenshot, a little bit of like a hard result,
32:04
Jocelyn: any type of client proof in an email, like automatically helps your clicks.
32:08
Jocelyn: And so a lot of times, like especially when the email's really strong, I'm like, "Do you have, like, any proof to go in here?"
32:15
Jocelyn: And people would be like, "Uh, somewhere, you know, like where, you know, I have this Airtable hub with like 200 records, or I have, you know, this Google Drive folder with all of my screenshots, but like they're all
32:27
Jocelyn: labeled screenshot with the, you know, random date stuff."
32:30
Jocelyn: Yeah.
32:31
Jocelyn: And all of that.
32:32
Jocelyn: But when you pull all of that into the app, it sorts it by client, so all the screenshots show up with like the client's name in it, it labels it, it transcribes it so you can search for specific,
32:44
Jocelyn: like, screenshots or a s- if you know, like, oh, it was Colie who t- said, like, "The app is so dope," and I can type in like dope into the search bar and it'll pull that up, and then
32:55
Jocelyn: I can insert that specific screenshot or, you know, I can kind of, there's the option to like weave it in if you don't wanna use the screenshot, but you wanna say like, you know, "That's why one of my
33:05
Jocelyn: members said it was dope," you know?
33:06
Jocelyn: You can have it like weave it in like that.
33:08
Jocelyn: But as somebody who has a love affair with case studies, that was obviously huge.
33:14
Jocelyn: I was like, you need to be able to be sending your client, like case study emails, and just like all of that proof is so underutilized.
33:21
Jocelyn: And I'm like, if that problem can get solved, like that's a huge thing.
33:26
Colie: Joslyn, why are you trying to solve all of the business problems?
33:29
Colie: I mean, you know.
33:31
Jocelyn: All the email ones.
33:33
Colie: email ones.
33:34
Colie: Okay, so I wanna bring it around to kind of close this out and talk about your new goal, your new campaign.
33:41
Colie: So I mean, how is it that you looked back and you were like, "I'm so close to 100 users in 100 days"?
33:49
Colie: Like, what were you doing when you were like, "Oh my God," like, that's the thing.
33:53
Colie: How can I write an email campaign literally as proof that I do what I tell you to do, um, in order to push us through?
34:01
Jocelyn: Yeah, so I had a sale come through.
34:04
Jocelyn: It was the last week at the time that we're recording this, and I had a sale come through.
34:07
Jocelyn: And I was like, "I think, I think that might be 70."
34:10
Jocelyn: And so I opened my, like, admin console of the app, and it was member number 70, and paying member number 70, 'cause I ha- also have some people who are grandfathered in.
34:20
Jocelyn: So paying member, like, somebody chose to sign up for this, number 70.
34:23
Jocelyn: And I was like, "Oh my gosh."
34:25
Jocelyn: And then I was like, "Wait, this is pretty good.
34:27
Jocelyn: Like, I'm, I'm pretty close to 100 now."
34:29
Jocelyn: And then I just randomly had the thought, like, "Has it even been 100 days?
34:33
Jocelyn: Like, when is 100 days?"
34:35
Jocelyn: And I typed it into Claude.
34:36
Jocelyn: I was like, "When is 100 days from June 23rd?"
34:39
Jocelyn: Which is when I opened it up to the public.
34:41
Jocelyn: And it was like October 1st.
34:42
Jocelyn: I was like, it's like September 18th or something.
34:45
Jocelyn: And I was like, "Um, I'm gonna have to do a push."
34:47
Jocelyn: Like, I can't not do, like, let me try to get to 100 members in 100 days.
34:52
Jocelyn: And I knew it would be a big push because I haven't, like, grown my audience a lot, but, and because I was literally deciding this, like, the day before I was gonna start doing this, you know.
35:03
Jocelyn: Um, I was also like, I know a lot of my bigger affiliates are also in their campaign.
35:07
Jocelyn: Like, if, uh, Emily Williams is in the middle of a campaign, but she still sent an email to a segment of her list for me, so.
35:14
Jocelyn: Um, but I was like, "You know what?
35:15
Jocelyn: I might not be able to get as many affiliates as I want, you know, participating in this," but I was like, "I have to try.
35:20
Jocelyn: Like, I have to at least try."
35:22
Jocelyn: Um, so, so far I've sold five more of those...
35:26
Jocelyn: No, six more of those spots.
35:28
Colie: She's like, "No, wait.
35:29
Colie: No, wait."
35:31
Jocelyn: 24 to go in, like, what?
35:33
Jocelyn: Five, six days.
35:34
Jocelyn: So it is a tight squeeze, but I was like, "I could definitely get 10 more."
35:38
Jocelyn: Like, I'm confident I'll have, you know, we'll be at, at least 80 members by the 100-day mark.
35:43
Jocelyn: So, and it's just, like, a fun reason for me to do that, that extra push and have a reason, like, an extra reason to be in your inbox more often.
35:52
Jocelyn: So
35:52
Colie: I mean, not that you need an excuse.
35:54
Jocelyn: yeah.
35:55
Colie: in my inbox any time.
35:56
Colie: And listen, my goal for my new app is nowhere near 100 in 100 days.
36:00
Colie: Let-- we'll just, we'll just get that out.
36:01
Colie: But it did make me think about publicly announcing what my goals are for my new app and how many users I'm bringing in.
36:09
Colie: Because like you, I'm gonna start with invite only, like it is only available to my clients.
36:14
Colie: And I actually don't plan on selling this one that I just finished this week publicly anytime soon.
36:19
Colie: But, listen, if you guys have heard us talk about the app and you're just even a little bit curious, uh, my link is in the show notes.
36:27
Colie: And also, DM me on Threads, because I am more than happy to talk about all of the things that I do with this app, all of the weird-ass places that I write emails.
36:36
Colie: Oh my God, last week at Cl- was it last week at Colie's volleyball game?
36:39
Colie: I wrote three emails while they were
36:41
Jocelyn: you told me.
36:42
Colie: I mean, guys, I write emails now everywhere, and it's mostly because now that I have the ability to talk and have the email written at the same time, it's priceless.
36:53
Colie: And I know that some people are like, "Oh, but like this is using Claude.
36:56
Colie: Like, I can just use Claude myself."
36:57
Colie: Yes, you can, but then you don't have Jocelyn's framework.
37:00
Colie: You don't have her brain on what goes into an actual, like, highly converting email.
37:05
Colie: You also don't have the structure of the app.
37:08
Colie: I feel like we don't talk about this part enough when it comes to building tools.
37:12
Colie: Yes, you could go and have Claude do all these things, but then you're having Claude go search this folder to find this one thing that you really can't remember.
37:19
Colie: And then it's writing the email, and then you gotta go copy and paste it, there I go again, into your email provider.
37:25
Colie: I mean, there's a lot of different steps instead of...
37:27
Colie: I mean, especially if you're a Kit user.
37:29
Colie: If you're a Kit user and you've just got that one click, it does not get any easier than that.
37:34
Colie: You will no longer have any excuse.
37:37
Jocelyn: Thank you to Kit for all the features that they allow us access to, 'cause it's, it's actually insane how much more I can do with Kit stuff.
37:45
Jocelyn: But, um, but yeah, and I think like too, like the planner thing, like 'cause I just redesigned the planner based on feedback and we have like, you know, your ideas, your queue, your scheduled emails, your sent emails.
37:58
Jocelyn: You can see everything like in there in calendar view, in list view, by category, by offer, by segment, like all of that.
38:06
Colie: of the sorting.
38:06
Colie: And also, I will admit, you put the planner out, and I can't remember where I was going.
38:11
Colie: Wasn't I going somewhere?
38:11
Colie: You put the planner out, and I'm like, "I haven't really had a chance to dive in yet."
38:15
Colie: But I'm really excited about my next campaign coming up, because that's one of the things that I really struggle with.
38:20
Colie: I don't struggle to write emails individually.
38:23
Colie: Like, I get an idea, I voice note, I get an email, I send it.
38:26
Colie: It's the, like, looking at the entire structure of sending, you know, a campaign for 10 days and making sure that I have an appropriate number of case study emails and then, as you call them, edu-selling.
38:39
Colie: I mean, I'm really looking forward to this visual map to allow me to see all of the different kinds of emails that I'm sending in a short amount of time to make sure that I am hitting all of
38:51
Colie: the marks that I need to to take someone from a little interested to sold.
38:57
Jocelyn: Yes.
38:57
Jocelyn: And then you get your insights area, which is rolling out to people next week.
39:03
Jocelyn: But Colie's got the, the early access 'cause she's a Best Seller client, but she'll be able to see really juicy stats, not just, like, general clicks, but the app looks specifically at sales-related clicks so that you can filter
39:17
Jocelyn: out, you know, things that are going to a podcast, things that are going to a summit, and you can really see, like, what is my list growth?
39:23
Jocelyn: What is, you know, the lead magnet that's giving me the most clients?
39:27
Jocelyn: What is, you know, the emails that are getting the most sales clicks, not just, you know, clicks to anything,
39:34
Colie: Can you tell that Jocelyn's obsessed with selling, guys?
39:36
Colie: I mean, her offer is called Best Seller for a reason.
39:40
Jocelyn: I just wanna make sure the people know, it's the app that turns voice notes into client converting emails, but that's like the tip of the iceberg, and then you get hooked by that, and you kind of see everything
39:51
Jocelyn: else that's in there, and then you realize, like, "Yeah, if I wanted to go do this in Claude, I would have to spend the months that Jocelyn spent building this herself," you
40:01
Colie: I mean, and I've been saying that for...
40:03
Colie: I think I had Annemie Tonken on here when we first both got a little obsessed with AI, and we spent an entire episode basically talking about why you can't just ask ChatGPT to do something that someone has created
40:19
Colie: a tool around their IP, their frameworks.
40:22
Colie: You're never gonna get the same thing out of just straight Claude, straight ChatGPT that you'll get when someone has strategically and carefully crafted an app to get you the results that they are promising you.
40:39
Colie: Okay, so just so that you guys know, we recorded this on a Friday, and this is now airing on a Monday.
40:44
Colie: So you still have a limited number of days to come check out Email Studio app, buy it, and become one of the first 100 users in 100 days.
40:53
Colie: Jocelyn, thank you so much for coming on the podcast that you helped me create.
40:59
Jocelyn: A little, a little, like, inception moment here.
41:01
Jocelyn: And Colie, you forgot the most important thing, since this is coming out on Monday.
41:05
Jocelyn: It's $100 off
41:06
Colie: Oh, I'm sor-
41:07
Jocelyn: Yes.
41:08
Colie: you know, we...
41:09
Jocelyn: I gotta sell Colie's affiliate link here.
41:11
Colie: I mean, so the thing is, I bought it, I believe, on day one, 'cause I was just waiting for you to announce it when I saw what you were building.
41:18
Colie: Um, I locked in my...
41:20
Colie: It's $199 for six months, and so you are gonna be able to get, you know, your six months for 199, which currently the app sells for 299.
41:29
Colie: So, I mean, now is the perfect time to try it out and see how powerful email can be for your business and your sales.
41:40
Jocelyn: Love it.
41:41
Jocelyn: Thanks so much, Colie.
41:43
Colie: yes.
41:43
Colie: All right, guys.
41:44
Colie: So listen, if you're like, "Yeah, AI's not for me," okay.
41:47
Colie: I, I get it.
41:48
Colie: But also, Jocelyn is brilliant.
41:51
Colie: Um, emails are definitely the way to go, and I think everyone could use a little inspiration to make your emails better and really convert your audience into buyers.
42:02
Colie: And so please check out the show notes today.
42:04
Colie: I mean, I have lots of juicy links in there for you, but that's it for this episode.
42:08
Colie: See you next time.