Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 31, Season 1: Forgiving the Unforgivable

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Episode 31, Season 1: Forgiving the Unforgivable · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

0:08
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
0:11
Speaker 1: Raino Butcher here with our lovely host, doctor Sarah Hnsley. Hey, hey, hey, hey,
0:16
Speaker 1: we are really cozied up today, guys, like we just
0:20
Speaker 1: we decided to wear our pjs.
0:22
Speaker 2: We did. We're in our Cozy Earth pajamas because we
0:25
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0:26
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0:29
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0:33
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0:34
Speaker 2: We did. Plus it's cold outside, so freezing and Kentucky
0:37
Speaker 2: it is nineteen degrees when we left. Yeah, so I
0:40
Speaker 2: have my beanie on too, and we have blankets. You
0:43
Speaker 2: might not be seeing us if you're listening.
0:44
Speaker 1: Actually, we might make this a trend because it just
0:47
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0:51
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1:06
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1:08
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1:13
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1:15
Speaker 2: Which was so perfect for you. When I saw those
1:16
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1:20
Speaker 1: I found them in a bottom. You know when you
1:21
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1:23
Speaker 1: you were like, yeah, I was like, I got the
1:25
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1:27
Speaker 1: you know I was gonna bomb.
1:29
Speaker 2: I deprive myself off nothing, put these on, and I
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Speaker 1: Hopefully Josh's mom doesn't listen to this episode, but we
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Speaker 1: Earth for sure. So episode thirty one today and we
3:02
Speaker 1: it is titled Forgiving the Unforgivable. Yes, this Soune's gonna
3:07
Speaker 1: be heavy. I'm kind of glad we're in our PJ.
3:09
Speaker 2: I know, right, And I was just thinking about all
3:12
Speaker 2: of this because when we did the last couple of
3:16
Speaker 2: episodes That's My Life, which That's My Life one has dropped.
3:19
Speaker 2: She hasn't dropped yet, so stay tuned next week. I
3:22
Speaker 2: was talking about the situation where, you know, my ex
3:26
Speaker 2: husband had died and he switched the life insurance policy
3:29
Speaker 2: over to new wife who had been married to for
3:30
Speaker 2: like six weeks, and you know, my my reasons for
3:38
Speaker 2: talking about this is definitely not to just try to
3:40
Speaker 2: throw her under the bus and people can figure out
3:42
Speaker 2: who she is, and I hope that they don't. I
3:43
Speaker 2: hope they leave her alone because she's remarried now and
3:47
Speaker 2: she seems to be happy and stable, and I think
3:49
Speaker 2: she went through a lot of trauma when my ex died. Obviously,
3:53
Speaker 2: I know she really did love him. She just didn't
3:55
Speaker 2: know what she had gotten herself into. Right, Not giving
4:00
Speaker 2: a life and turns to my kids was not a
4:03
Speaker 2: move I would have made. It's so funny. My husband
4:05
Speaker 2: and I were watching the show Weeds. I'd never seen
4:07
Speaker 2: it before, and we just picked a series like we
4:09
Speaker 2: had not seen it, so she totally Nancy botwind me, Oh, is.
4:15
Speaker 1: That part of the show.
4:16
Speaker 2: Part of the show.
4:17
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to watch it now.
4:18
Speaker 2: Just so anyway, and Donald was cracking up. He's like,
4:21
Speaker 2: you got Nancy botwind. And I was so mad. I remember,
4:26
Speaker 2: I was like raging mad because I had paid into
4:29
Speaker 2: that policy for ten years.
4:31
Speaker 1: Well and you, I mean, obviously you want to protect
4:34
Speaker 1: your children.
4:35
Speaker 2: That's what it was all for.
4:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
4:36
Speaker 2: And right before he went to rehab, which was in
4:40
Speaker 2: March and he died in September, I asked him specifically,
4:45
Speaker 2: you still have that policy on you, right, it's in
4:48
Speaker 2: your name, it's on you on the beneficiary, right, because
4:52
Speaker 2: I'm worried about you, jar, Why do.
4:54
Speaker 1: You think you would have switched it over?
4:55
Speaker 2: Was it a slap in the face spite? Because I
4:58
Speaker 2: don't think he really thought every he thought he was bulletproof,
5:02
Speaker 2: you know. And I don't think nobody ever really thinks
5:05
Speaker 2: they're going to die, you know, unless somebody tells you
5:08
Speaker 2: you're dying and like you're not, like it's fine, you're dying, right.
5:11
Speaker 2: Nobody thinks they're just going to wake up one day
5:13
Speaker 2: like when he woke up that day. Yet no idea
5:14
Speaker 2: it was right, Which is the weird part, Right, it's
5:17
Speaker 2: the weird part. To wrap your head.
5:18
Speaker 1: Around death is hard to wrap your head around.
5:20
Speaker 2: It is so is and it just the grief in
5:24
Speaker 2: the complexity of the situation that I'm in where this person, yes,
5:29
Speaker 2: was abusive, but also he was a human and there
5:32
Speaker 2: were good things about and the children and the father
5:35
Speaker 2: of my children, which was the most difficult decision to
5:37
Speaker 2: make to talk about what's happened to me. But also,
5:41
Speaker 2: how can I help people if I don't let them
5:44
Speaker 2: know that I've been through this, right? You know, I
5:47
Speaker 2: have to be able to tell people who are in
5:49
Speaker 2: this situation you can get out. You can get out.
5:52
Speaker 1: Because I can well. And that's what I always tell
5:56
Speaker 1: a lot of people. They call, you know, asking about
5:58
Speaker 1: your services, asking you know what sets you apart, and
6:03
Speaker 1: I always say that you're I know I've mentioned this before,
6:05
Speaker 1: but I'm like, she's a triple threat. I'm like, because
6:07
Speaker 1: she has the education, she has the research experience, but
6:12
Speaker 1: on top of that, she has the real life experience
6:15
Speaker 1: that not everybody has, where she has literally seen the
6:19
Speaker 1: depths of hell and then pulled herself out. I was like,
6:23
Speaker 1: And then on top of that, she's a teacher. Yeah,
6:25
Speaker 1: so you know how to teach, And again that's a gift,
6:29
Speaker 1: and teaching is a gift, Like, not everybody has that gift,
6:32
Speaker 1: but you are. It's what makes you dynamic. It's what
6:35
Speaker 1: makes your content dynamic, is that you're able to take
6:38
Speaker 1: this really complex information, break it down for people to say,
6:43
Speaker 1: oh wow, that that makes a lot of sense, you know,
6:46
Speaker 1: and then in turn it gives people hope.
6:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think people really like a good comeback story. Yeah,
6:53
Speaker 2: you know, because it does give people hope. And what
6:56
Speaker 2: I want to tell people, like, if this is your year,
6:59
Speaker 2: and I will say a cuss word, if this is
7:01
Speaker 2: your year where you have been shit on over and
7:04
Speaker 2: over and over and over again, just know that your
7:08
Speaker 2: life can change so freaking drastically in a year. This
7:12
Speaker 2: time next year, you could be a whole different person
7:15
Speaker 2: with a whole different set of circumstances where your life
7:18
Speaker 2: just kicks ass.
7:19
Speaker 1: But it starts with forgiveness.
7:20
Speaker 2: Yes it does.
7:22
Speaker 1: And sometimes it starts with forgiving the unforgivable.
7:24
Speaker 2: It does, and it is of my faith because it
7:29
Speaker 2: comes from Jesus. The words come from Jesus that we
7:32
Speaker 2: are required to forgive. But a lot of people think
7:36
Speaker 2: forgiveness means no boundaries. And so I will say said
7:41
Speaker 2: it once, I'll say it again, love is unconditional. Being
7:45
Speaker 2: in relationship with someone is conditional. It is it has
7:50
Speaker 2: to be, or else you may not be safe in
7:54
Speaker 2: that relationship. I mean relationships, especially in domestic violence or
7:58
Speaker 2: abuse of situations can kill you. So yes, they are conditional, right,
8:04
Speaker 2: And we have when we're insecurely attached, we have kind
8:09
Speaker 2: of two groups of people. We have the group that
8:12
Speaker 2: wants to run at the slightest thing I hear all
8:16
Speaker 2: the time. I have a very distinct group of clientele
8:20
Speaker 2: who have had a four to six month relationship with
8:23
Speaker 2: a DA and then they have their first real conflict
8:26
Speaker 2: and they get completely ghosted by this person that they
8:30
Speaker 2: felt deeply and intimately connected to and they are so heartbroken.
8:34
Speaker 2: Sure they feel like the wool was just pulled over
8:37
Speaker 2: their eyes. How could they do that? How could they
8:39
Speaker 2: just completely ghost me? And then I have, you know,
8:45
Speaker 2: people that are of course on the more anxious side
8:47
Speaker 2: of the spectrum, who stay through intolerable circumstances. I had somebody,
8:56
Speaker 2: you know, a while back, that said, my partner's cheating
9:00
Speaker 2: me for twenty years. What do I do? I said,
9:03
Speaker 2: you leave, you get out? Leave?
9:06
Speaker 1: And how is that if it's been going on that long.
9:09
Speaker 1: That's never going to change.
9:10
Speaker 2: It's never going to change. I straight up told this person,
9:14
Speaker 2: you are no longer a victim of this. You are
9:16
Speaker 2: a volunteer for it. You are an autonomous human being.
9:20
Speaker 2: And I know that abusers trap you. They do im day,
9:24
Speaker 2: they trap you. I know that they isolate you. I
9:26
Speaker 2: know that they financially abuse you. I understand all of
9:29
Speaker 2: these things. But there are resources, there are people that
9:33
Speaker 2: will help you get out. You have to get out.
9:36
Speaker 1: And I got an email the other day from I
9:40
Speaker 1: don't know if she's a client, but I have no
9:43
Speaker 1: idea why she specifically emailed me or even how she
9:46
Speaker 1: got my email, but she was it was very obvious
9:50
Speaker 1: that she was in an abusive situation, and maybe she
9:54
Speaker 1: emailed me because she heard something on the podcast about
9:57
Speaker 1: me talking about my situation with my ex and being
9:59
Speaker 1: in a small town and feeling like there was all
10:01
Speaker 1: this witness value on top of the fact of just
10:04
Speaker 1: like going up against city hall. Right like in my situation,
10:07
Speaker 1: it felt like I was all alone on this island,
10:10
Speaker 1: and the whole town and the whole family was sort
10:14
Speaker 1: of against me. And she was just like, I need
10:16
Speaker 1: some advice. What do I do, like, what services do
10:20
Speaker 1: you guys have? And I was like, well, it sounds
10:22
Speaker 1: like you're in an abusive situation first off, based on
10:25
Speaker 1: what you're telling me, and I can I can just
10:29
Speaker 1: go ahead and warn you that this shit's gonna get
10:31
Speaker 1: worse before it gets better.
10:33
Speaker 2: It always every abuse cycle gets worse, which is why
10:37
Speaker 2: when I reunited with my ex after I legally divorced him, right,
10:41
Speaker 2: this is when I was at my sickest mentally and physically, well,
10:45
Speaker 2: not physically, but for sure near the end of my
10:49
Speaker 2: near a nervous breakdown level. The second round, when it
10:54
Speaker 2: didn't go well, was even worse. Was the worst abuse
10:57
Speaker 2: that had ever happened.
10:58
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how it was the trajectory of how
11:01
Speaker 1: things happened with my ex. It was like every single
11:04
Speaker 1: time that I would go back and felt like it
11:07
Speaker 1: would get better, it actually got worse worse. Now, maybe
11:12
Speaker 1: at first it would get better, because that's how a
11:14
Speaker 1: bombing stage, right, that's how he would hoover me back in, right,
11:17
Speaker 1: and then lo and behold, something would happen and it
11:20
Speaker 1: would get worse.
11:21
Speaker 2: Right. So, as I mentioned in you know the last
11:25
Speaker 2: couple of podcasts, one of two parts my life ended
11:28
Speaker 2: up taking up two parts. I talked a lot about
11:33
Speaker 2: how you know, I did hold some bitterness, right, It's
11:37
Speaker 2: like it felt like he he selfishly chose his addictions.
11:43
Speaker 2: And I know addiction is a disease. I get that,
11:47
Speaker 2: but we're not talking about somebody who didn't have any
11:51
Speaker 2: resources or people that loved him, or parents that couldn't
11:56
Speaker 2: pay for rehab. Right. He had all that. He had
11:58
Speaker 2: a humongous port system and everything in the world going
12:02
Speaker 2: for him. And I know I don't. I've never been
12:04
Speaker 2: addicted to drugs or alcohol, so I can't say that
12:08
Speaker 2: I understand it because clearly I don't. YEA, Clearly I don't.
12:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess sometimes all the resources in the world.
12:16
Speaker 1: That's why I've always said the only way to heal
12:18
Speaker 1: addiction is through God can only.
12:20
Speaker 2: Source, right, And I do think he tried some of that,
12:23
Speaker 2: But I feel like he was on that path. He
12:25
Speaker 2: was on that path, and I don't thank his ex
12:26
Speaker 2: wife for that. Yeah, his newly you know, his new
12:29
Speaker 2: wife who is now his ex wife, And it's probably
12:33
Speaker 2: not the right way to say that his widow.
12:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, his widow. Yeah?
12:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, Are you also considered a widow now? Because we
12:39
Speaker 2: were divorced when he died. Yeah, I'm not a widow anyhow,
12:48
Speaker 2: So I had a lot of bitterness over the abuse
12:53
Speaker 2: of the marriage, of his alcoholism. But the bitterness, it
13:01
Speaker 2: absolutely does nothing but hurts you. It does nothing but
13:05
Speaker 2: hurt It serves no purpose. And that's because people confuse
13:10
Speaker 2: forgiveness with laxing boundaries and allowing the relationship to continue.
13:16
Speaker 2: One thing that God spoken to me a long time ago,
13:18
Speaker 2: when I was in my healing journey from all this
13:21
Speaker 2: after my ex had died, was and I don't know
13:26
Speaker 2: how to put this into words, but just that it
13:31
Speaker 2: doesn't serve you. It doesn't do you any good, It
13:34
Speaker 2: doesn't bring you any peace. The bitterness is an issue
13:41
Speaker 2: with the fact that you are afraid that if you forgive,
13:45
Speaker 2: you're going to be harmed again, right, or that you
13:48
Speaker 2: have given them permission, or that you have said, hey,
13:50
Speaker 2: what you did didn't matter, it was okay. And that's
13:54
Speaker 2: not true. It's not that what they did didn't matter
14:00
Speaker 2: or didn't hurt you. It just says that I'm going
14:03
Speaker 2: to lay down my sword about it. I'm not going
14:05
Speaker 2: to fight about it anymore. I'm not going to hold
14:07
Speaker 2: resentment towards you, which resentment is a huge issue in
14:10
Speaker 2: my clients that I see, and so many people ask
14:14
Speaker 2: me about how to forgive, and.
14:16
Speaker 1: That was going to be my next question because a
14:18
Speaker 1: lot of times people they don't realize that they are
14:21
Speaker 1: holding on to this bitterness. Again, speaking about my mom,
14:25
Speaker 1: she is the perfect example, Like she lived the majority
14:29
Speaker 1: of her life just in this state of constant bitterness.
14:32
Speaker 1: But I don't know if she ever really recognized it
14:35
Speaker 1: or acknowledged it.
14:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, most people, Most people don't.
14:39
Speaker 1: I think it's what led to her death.
14:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's actual research on that, so yes, it
14:46
Speaker 2: does put you a higher risk of stroke, card attack, cancer, etc.
14:50
Speaker 2: Specifically bitterness, I believe it, as well as risk for
14:53
Speaker 2: chronic pain like neuroplastic pain is most associated with anger.
15:00
Speaker 2: We've talked about that on the podcast. The only way
15:03
Speaker 2: I know how to forgive the unforgivable, which I felt
15:06
Speaker 2: like some of the things that happened to me, and
15:08
Speaker 2: some of the things that happened to me are so
15:09
Speaker 2: bad and so devastating that I choose not to share them.
15:14
Speaker 2: You know what some of those things are.
15:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I have some too.
15:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, And those things stay between us. But
15:21
Speaker 2: and for my kid's sake, if you would have asked me,
15:27
Speaker 2: you know, five years ago, if I would have forgiven that,
15:29
Speaker 2: I've been like, hell, now, he doesn't deserve to be
15:31
Speaker 2: forgiven when he was still alive. And it is probably
15:36
Speaker 2: easier after someone's gone to forgive them.
15:38
Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
15:38
Speaker 2: My mom's still hurting you.
15:40
Speaker 1: Mom used to say, because my parents di worced after
15:42
Speaker 1: twenty eight years of marriage. She used to say, and
15:44
Speaker 1: I never really understood until I got older, was that
15:47
Speaker 1: she would have rather my dad died because then it
15:51
Speaker 1: would have been easier honor.
15:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there is something called the death positivity bias
15:55
Speaker 2: where we I may have mentioned this sometimes I don't
15:57
Speaker 2: know what I've said on the pod and what I've
15:58
Speaker 2: said I said on THEO, on my videos and stuff,
16:02
Speaker 2: because I'm like, it's familiar territory. The death positivity bias
16:05
Speaker 2: suggests that we view people more favorably after they're dead, right,
16:09
Speaker 2: And so there could be some of that psychologically. But
16:12
Speaker 2: I do know that God changed my heart around him. Now,
16:16
Speaker 2: does that mean that I am going to hold back
16:19
Speaker 2: in my truth of what I've experienced and what he
16:21
Speaker 2: put me through? No, because I truly believe. My faith
16:26
Speaker 2: tells me he's in heaven and he doesn't care. He
16:29
Speaker 2: is not up in heaven looking down and being like
16:32
Speaker 2: you're talking about me? How dare you talk about me? No,
16:36
Speaker 2: the veil has been lifted for him. He is in paradise,
16:39
Speaker 2: he is in glory, he has absolved of his sin.
16:42
Speaker 2: He was a believer, and I think that he would
16:46
Speaker 2: want me because it's demonic oppression in my opinion. Yes,
16:50
Speaker 2: you want to call it psychological, you know, pathology, narcissistic personality, disorder,
16:56
Speaker 2: all of those things, that's fine, But my personal faith
16:58
Speaker 2: tells me that all of those things underneath that is demonic, right,
17:02
Speaker 2: it's all of the demonic it is not there's different layers, right,
17:07
Speaker 2: like the spiritual layer of it is the demonic oppression.
17:10
Speaker 2: It manifests as these psychological outcomes that psychology as a
17:13
Speaker 2: science has studied and termed these things. But to me,
17:17
Speaker 2: it's demonic oppression. So when people are demonically oppressed, they
17:21
Speaker 2: don't know that they're aligning with the enemy. They do
17:23
Speaker 2: not know it's not possession. You're not possessed by the devil,
17:26
Speaker 2: but you are oppressed. Are the devil is speaking to
17:29
Speaker 2: you to your own thoughts, you know, pushing you into sin,
17:35
Speaker 2: and you believe it and you align with it, and
17:38
Speaker 2: therefore you are using your free will, which God does
17:41
Speaker 2: not interrupt, to choose it right. And so the only
17:45
Speaker 2: way that I ever came around to actually full forgiveness,
17:49
Speaker 2: like when I talk about these and I know that
17:51
Speaker 2: it's forgiveness because when I talk about it, I don't
17:53
Speaker 2: really feel anything except for sadness and grief, which are
17:57
Speaker 2: appropriate emotions. I don't feel any anger or rage, your
18:00
Speaker 2: resentment maybe micro moments, but then I corrept it with God, right,
18:05
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, that's the devil. Rebooke that in Jesus' name.
18:09
Speaker 2: You know. It's just like last week when I was like,
18:12
Speaker 2: I want to say the name of the mistress. There
18:15
Speaker 2: was one dominant mistress in my husband's life, and there
18:19
Speaker 2: was like there was a hot second there on the
18:21
Speaker 2: pod where I was like, want to say her name,
18:23
Speaker 2: because I mean.
18:25
Speaker 1: I get it.
18:26
Speaker 2: She wrapped my life. Well he did too, but she
18:30
Speaker 2: participated in wrecking my life. I mean, I out a
18:32
Speaker 2: care in the world. And so there's those fleeting moments
18:35
Speaker 2: where there's that like and then I'm like no, but God,
18:40
Speaker 2: but Jesus died.
18:41
Speaker 1: And I still have some jealousy like that lives in
18:45
Speaker 1: my And it's so interesting because I think, like, I'm
18:48
Speaker 1: so happily married, but then I can think back. I mean,
18:53
Speaker 1: you've I won't name the mistress, even though my ex
18:57
Speaker 1: and I weren't married, but you know, he put me
18:59
Speaker 1: in a love trying for like three years with the
19:01
Speaker 1: same girl. And it wasn't that long ago that I
19:05
Speaker 1: was showing her to you on social media. And she's gorgeous,
19:08
Speaker 1: like she's she is a beautiful girl. But I can't
19:12
Speaker 1: help but like have those moments and again, like I
19:16
Speaker 1: don't like it's not because I'm still in love with
19:18
Speaker 1: my ex, but it's just because it brings things up
19:21
Speaker 1: for me from that time.
19:23
Speaker 2: She processed emotion right, and.
19:24
Speaker 1: So I'll look at her and I'll be like, oh, well, yeah, I'm.
19:28
Speaker 2: Like, oh, she's spiritually the devil, right, And jealousy and
19:32
Speaker 2: envy is a principality of the enemy.
19:34
Speaker 1: But I think it really stems from because we're talking
19:36
Speaker 1: about forgiveness, obviously, I just think it stems from just
19:39
Speaker 1: not being able to fully forgive. Not yet. You know,
19:44
Speaker 1: I'm still working through it. Yeah, I still working.
19:46
Speaker 2: It's not easy.
19:47
Speaker 1: And like I can even acknowledge, like I when I
19:50
Speaker 1: think about her, like, I mean, come on, she was
19:53
Speaker 1: a like nineteen year old girl. Y, she was maybe,
19:57
Speaker 1: and he was like thirty six him, I know, grody. No,
20:02
Speaker 1: I couldn't say, how grotty is that?
20:05
Speaker 2: Say that phrase?
20:05
Speaker 1: No, I'll say I'll say it shame on him. I'll
20:09
Speaker 1: say it shame on him.
20:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I still struggle though. It is not weird.
20:13
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't illegal, but it was weird, right,
20:15
Speaker 2: it was weird.
20:16
Speaker 1: There were six There was like a sixteen seventeen. Let's
20:18
Speaker 1: put it this way. At that time, my son was little.
20:21
Speaker 1: There was less of an age difference between her and
20:23
Speaker 1: John Paul than there was between her and Paul.
20:27
Speaker 2: Y's creepy. That's weirdy be very creepy and weird.
20:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I mean I just think what
20:33
Speaker 1: this is how I try to think about it in
20:35
Speaker 1: terms of her point of view. She was put through
20:39
Speaker 1: the ringer too, you know, she was put through so much.
20:43
Speaker 1: And yeah, because he was lying to her, just like
20:46
Speaker 1: he flip flopped back and forth between us for three years,
20:52
Speaker 1: three years and this girl like this was probably like
20:55
Speaker 1: one of her first love experiences, you know. And so
20:59
Speaker 1: I try to have of because I think when you
21:02
Speaker 1: start to have empathy for people, then it's easier to forgive,
21:06
Speaker 1: because I've I've done that with with my ex too.
21:09
Speaker 1: I've had to I've had to look at him from
21:10
Speaker 1: this different scope, right, not just based on my own feelings,
21:14
Speaker 1: I've had to look at it from his own pain. Yeah,
21:18
Speaker 1: and then it's been easier to forgive.
21:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, what worked for me was one God says
21:25
Speaker 2: there's no exception to this rule. So there was no
21:29
Speaker 2: but but God, but he did this. And it's like,
21:33
Speaker 2: but Jesus was tortured and died for you and beaten
21:36
Speaker 2: and spit on and shamed and ostracized and had his
21:41
Speaker 2: body broken. And if you ever read into what a
21:44
Speaker 2: crucifixion is like, you won't be able to stomach it.
21:47
Speaker 2: You can't. You can't even you'll have to close the book.
21:50
Speaker 2: If you can, then maybe you're some kind of sociopathy. Yeah,
21:54
Speaker 2: And so he did that for all of humanity. Right,
21:59
Speaker 2: So if I can't forgive, I must not really understand
22:02
Speaker 2: what the gift of Christ's crucifixion actually meant. Right, And
22:09
Speaker 2: Jesus said forgiveness is seventy time seven, which it's not
22:14
Speaker 2: actually just seventy times seven. He's speaking, you know, parabolically
22:19
Speaker 2: to say that is endless. You forgive endless amount of times,
22:26
Speaker 2: infinitely infinite forgiveness. But again, forgiveness does not mean you
22:31
Speaker 2: go back to the relationship or that you allow that
22:34
Speaker 2: person to continue to harm you. Sometimes we have to
22:37
Speaker 2: love people from afar. And I think one of the
22:39
Speaker 2: most profound things that be in health ministry has taught me,
22:43
Speaker 2: which starting with forgiveness, set the stage for my healing.
22:48
Speaker 2: It's set the stage because bitterness and anger and resentment
22:53
Speaker 2: and all of that, it's so hard on the nervous
22:55
Speaker 2: system that you cannot regulate when you have it. You
22:58
Speaker 2: can't because you are in fight or flight. You're in
23:01
Speaker 2: a fight response when you're angry, right, and so your
23:06
Speaker 2: nervous system will never be regulated and relaxed, and you
23:09
Speaker 2: will never experience the full consciousness that your brain is
23:12
Speaker 2: capable of. You will never experience true felt safety if
23:16
Speaker 2: you don't do this. It's the number one block to people,
23:21
Speaker 2: I would say, healing their attachment that I see is
23:26
Speaker 2: that Paul talks about in the Bible that we're separate
23:30
Speaker 2: from our sin. So God created us to be perfect
23:33
Speaker 2: in his image. He created us for perfection. Satan came
23:38
Speaker 2: into the picture. We used our free will to align
23:40
Speaker 2: with Satan. I mean, everybody knows Adam and Eve's story right,
23:42
Speaker 2: and the world fell, The world fell to sin. And
23:45
Speaker 2: so the enemy is alive and well and is rules
23:50
Speaker 2: the ruler of the earth. God is the ruler of
23:53
Speaker 2: the heavenly space. Satan is the ruler of the earth.
23:57
Speaker 2: And so you have to understand that we got to
24:02
Speaker 2: get the log out of our own eye first of all,
24:05
Speaker 2: and then we have to at the end of the day,
24:08
Speaker 2: we've got to lay down the swords because you're fighting
24:14
Speaker 2: nobody on the other side anymore. At some point, especially
24:17
Speaker 2: if you've left the relationship and you're not in the relationship.
24:20
Speaker 2: If you are in a relationship where someone is continually
24:23
Speaker 2: hurting you over and over and over and over and
24:26
Speaker 2: over and over again, then the question needs to move
24:29
Speaker 2: from how do I get my partner to to why
24:32
Speaker 2: am I tolerating this? What is going on with me?
24:35
Speaker 2: Where I am continuing to return to this over and
24:38
Speaker 2: over again. So they're asking themselves the wrong question. And
24:41
Speaker 2: I know it's not the question that they want to ask.
24:43
Speaker 2: I know it's the painful question. It's the one where
24:46
Speaker 2: they have to be accountable. And it sucks because there
24:50
Speaker 2: is an accountability element in the abuse. And I get it.
24:54
Speaker 2: I was fully psychologically manipulated. I was in the strongest
24:57
Speaker 2: hell trauma bond. I was physically abused. I was isolated.
25:01
Speaker 2: I had money taken from me, I had all the
25:03
Speaker 2: things flat broke all the things, and I still got
25:09
Speaker 2: out yep. And it may have taken me, trust me
25:13
Speaker 2: one too many times. The first time he put his
25:15
Speaker 2: hands on me should have been the last time.
25:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
25:19
Speaker 2: And I forgive myself and I forgive him.
25:23
Speaker 1: Oh that's a I mean talking about forgiveness, forgiving yourself
25:28
Speaker 1: is a big piece.
25:29
Speaker 2: It is a big piece. It is a big piece
25:32
Speaker 2: because we you know, we talk about this a lot,
25:35
Speaker 2: and when Dana was on the podcast and it aswell
25:38
Speaker 2: about how much internal shame we hold, and insecure attachments
25:42
Speaker 2: holds so much, so much shame. It's triggered by different
25:46
Speaker 2: things depending upon the attachment style. So much shame. And
25:49
Speaker 2: I think even narcissism is built to protect yourself against
25:53
Speaker 2: unrelenting shame. According to the most adopted theories or accepted theories.
26:00
Speaker 2: So if you take that theory, if we're talking on
26:03
Speaker 2: a psychological level, if we step out of the spiritual
26:05
Speaker 2: space and talk in the psychological space, my ex must
26:11
Speaker 2: have had so much internalized shame as a young child
26:14
Speaker 2: that he built a fake personality that was built upon
26:20
Speaker 2: being grandiose, aggressive and dominating to get what he wanted
26:29
Speaker 2: out of life, which was the mechanism he felt he
26:32
Speaker 2: had to build somewhere in his subconscious to be safe
26:36
Speaker 2: in this world.
26:38
Speaker 1: Same with my ex, and he's still that way.
26:41
Speaker 2: You know.
26:41
Speaker 1: Actually, my ex needs to listen to this episode. I
26:43
Speaker 1: don't normally say that, but there's he has a lot
26:46
Speaker 1: of unforgiveness.
26:48
Speaker 2: My ex also did a lot of steroids, so did.
26:52
Speaker 1: Mine, which and just acknowledge that just the uncanny like
26:58
Speaker 1: our lives are. So this was telling Josh the other day,
27:01
Speaker 1: so parallel, freaking insane, How parallel are life.
27:05
Speaker 2: We were meant to be best friends, I know, and
27:07
Speaker 2: we were meant to do this. We were meant to
27:08
Speaker 2: do this, all right. I tried to get you to
27:10
Speaker 2: do this years and are well.
27:14
Speaker 1: Finally I pulled the trigger. It just took me getting
27:16
Speaker 1: a really really great partner. Honestly, I give him a
27:19
Speaker 1: lot of credit because then I felt me too.
27:23
Speaker 2: I didn't start this business until after I met Donald. Yeah,
27:25
Speaker 2: he was the one that was like, you can do this.
27:27
Speaker 1: Yes, it's amazing. How a great partner. How brave they
27:30
Speaker 1: make you.
27:30
Speaker 2: They make you so brave because you have a soft
27:32
Speaker 2: place to land, you have a place to fall. If
27:35
Speaker 2: you fail, you have somebody that's going to go. You
27:37
Speaker 2: know what, just because this failed doesn't mean you're a
27:40
Speaker 2: failing right right. I mean, there is nobody that is
27:44
Speaker 2: my bigger cheerleader than.
27:45
Speaker 1: Donald, Josh neither. I mean, he is just like you
27:48
Speaker 1: girls are rocking it, keep going. You're so awesome with
27:53
Speaker 1: the emails and some of the messages to him, and
27:55
Speaker 1: he was like, this is so amazing, honey, I'm so
27:57
Speaker 1: proud of you all.
27:58
Speaker 2: I'm proud of us too too.
28:00
Speaker 1: I cry listen to I listen. I cry a lot
28:03
Speaker 1: read your messages, I really do. Or just like so
28:06
Speaker 1: here because I.
28:06
Speaker 2: Still like, I know that I'm a sinner because we
28:10
Speaker 2: all are, and so I just feel like when I pray,
28:13
Speaker 2: I'm like God, i know I'm so undeserving because I'm
28:15
Speaker 2: a sinner. I know I'm so undeserving, but and I
28:19
Speaker 2: don't know why you're blessing me like this, But I'm
28:20
Speaker 2: just going to keep going.
28:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all you can do.
28:23
Speaker 2: I'm just going to keep going. I'm just going to
28:25
Speaker 2: keep trying my best to stay humble, trying my best.
28:29
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm crying to focus on the mission, which
28:32
Speaker 2: is helping people to love in a way that God
28:34
Speaker 2: wants people to love, trying to show up authentic, even
28:38
Speaker 2: if some of that authenticity is still some broken pieces.
28:43
Speaker 2: Because nobody ever, you know, healing is just a lifetime journey.
28:46
Speaker 2: It's not like, oh, you've reached the destination. Here's your
28:48
Speaker 2: cars right, your card right, your certificate of completion. No,
28:53
Speaker 2: I'm a lifelong learner. I'm always going to be a
28:56
Speaker 2: sinner because the only person that wasn't was Jesus. I'm
29:00
Speaker 2: always healing. I'm always catching and correcting things because a
29:05
Speaker 2: lot of earning attachment security is catching correct It's not
29:08
Speaker 2: that you get it right the first time, it's how
29:10
Speaker 2: quickly can you recognize that you just did or said
29:12
Speaker 2: something dysfunctional and correct that, repair it, come back right.
29:16
Speaker 2: That is a lot of what people don't understand about
29:18
Speaker 2: secure attachment, Like I still have insecure moments with my husband,
29:22
Speaker 2: but I do everything I can to catch it and
29:24
Speaker 2: correct it if it does happen, and if he happens,
29:27
Speaker 2: to catch it first and bring it to my attention.
29:30
Speaker 2: I'm healed enough and mature enough to take accountability and
29:33
Speaker 2: to take the necessarily not get defensive and take the
29:36
Speaker 2: necessary steps to repair. Yeah, or at least, you know,
29:40
Speaker 2: if I get a little defensive or something, I'm able
29:43
Speaker 2: to quickly reroute that to I'm feeling misunderstood right now
29:47
Speaker 2: instead of no, you're wrong, it's I'm feeling misunderstood right now.
29:50
Speaker 2: I understand that your you know, your perspective does matter,
29:53
Speaker 2: and the way that I have impacted you is hurt you,
29:55
Speaker 2: and I'm here to listen, but I also need you
29:57
Speaker 2: to know that I feel misunderstood.
29:58
Speaker 1: Yeah.
29:59
Speaker 2: Right, So well, we're really good at that, you know.
30:03
Speaker 2: And my husband's really good at that. And we were
30:06
Speaker 2: just talking last night about self forgiveness because he was like,
30:14
Speaker 2: I created trauma in other people's lives, and like when
30:17
Speaker 2: you talk about your ex, he's like, I wasn't the
30:20
Speaker 2: best husband either. I was blown up in war, and
30:25
Speaker 2: I had severe PTSD for some years before I got
30:30
Speaker 2: the right type of help that helped me. He went
30:33
Speaker 2: through a lot of therapy and before he really came
30:36
Speaker 2: back to God. And he's like, so I was insecure,
30:41
Speaker 2: very insecure, Like he was a very raging fa I mean,
30:44
Speaker 2: he's not a narcissist, he wasn't abusive to anybody. But
30:47
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, did I raise my voice? Did I
30:51
Speaker 2: maybe manipulate situations? Not consciously, but you know, I wanted
30:55
Speaker 2: to try to get my way or have one up
30:58
Speaker 2: or win the argument, just like the you know.
31:01
Speaker 1: Lots of emotional reactions is emotional knee jerk reaction. I
31:04
Speaker 1: made a lot like I can look back to and
31:06
Speaker 1: I may take lots of poor decisions, oh honey, poor
31:09
Speaker 1: decisions that if anything added to the toxicity level of
31:15
Speaker 1: the relation.
31:15
Speaker 2: You could have the biggest trophy in the world, that
31:17
Speaker 2: says best poor decision maker say, I mean, i'd I
31:21
Speaker 2: would like to think that I've redeemed myself from that
31:24
Speaker 2: in the last you know, four years or so five years,
31:28
Speaker 2: you have, honey, But God, I was a mess. And
31:30
Speaker 2: so when we were talking about that, he has repented
31:33
Speaker 2: to his ex wives even though one of his ex
31:35
Speaker 2: wives was five times worse than him and is a
31:37
Speaker 2: true narcissist in my personal, not professional opinion, because I
31:45
Speaker 2: can't say it's professionally that's my opinion, but personal, as
31:49
Speaker 2: a human behavior researcher who has researched and been an
31:53
Speaker 2: expert on narcissism for twenty years, I'm willing to say
31:57
Speaker 2: that one of his exes is a narcissist, the other
32:00
Speaker 2: one isn't. Yeah, the other one's fairly cool. And so
32:08
Speaker 2: you know you have an FA in a narcissist, Lord,
32:11
Speaker 2: help that relationship. It's not. That was me and my
32:15
Speaker 2: ex FA and you were the FA at arc So
32:20
Speaker 2: you can imagine the toxic toxicity level, right. And then
32:24
Speaker 2: when you have covert narcissism. Covert narcissism is completely built
32:28
Speaker 2: around a victim mentality. So when you have someone that
32:32
Speaker 2: is one hundred percent of the time the victim, you
32:35
Speaker 2: can't get anywhere because accountability is the has to happen
32:39
Speaker 2: to have repair. It has to happen to have repair.
32:45
Speaker 2: And there are people, there's a large client base that
32:48
Speaker 2: I have and they're not narcissistic. They just have very
32:51
Speaker 2: insecure attachment that don't know how to take accountability because
32:55
Speaker 2: they have such high shame that accountability and emitting flaws
32:59
Speaker 2: is intolerable to them.
33:00
Speaker 1: Right, It's very uncomfortable.
33:01
Speaker 2: Right, And so the piece of self forgiveness comes in
33:05
Speaker 2: is when you're able to take accountability and say, you
33:07
Speaker 2: know what, I should have known you deeper to not
33:12
Speaker 2: say it that way, right, I should have been more thoughtful,
33:15
Speaker 2: or I was reacting more emotionally and not logically in
33:19
Speaker 2: this situation, and I'm really you know, I'm really sorry.
33:22
Speaker 2: I see how that hurt you. It's so freaking freeing
33:24
Speaker 2: when you get used to it in the beginning, especially
33:28
Speaker 2: as an FA, because we hold the wall of pain
33:30
Speaker 2: like every hurt we like, hold on really tight to
33:35
Speaker 2: It's hard. But then when you really get comfortable with
33:37
Speaker 2: admitting it and you have that self forgiveness and you
33:41
Speaker 2: have the ability to forgive your partner, the wall of
33:45
Speaker 2: pain comes down little by little. And I still struggle
33:50
Speaker 2: with not wanting to let things go, and I have
33:54
Speaker 2: to use my tools that I teach others to catch it,
34:00
Speaker 2: of course, correct it to you know, reframe my thoughts
34:04
Speaker 2: around it, to calm down my nervous system, to get
34:07
Speaker 2: into that internal felt sense of safety to be like,
34:12
Speaker 2: we're all human here. This is a forgivable offense. And
34:15
Speaker 2: there's nothing my husband has ever done to me that
34:18
Speaker 2: is not easily forgivable. Right, He's never really hurt me.
34:21
Speaker 2: I've been really hurt. And that man is never.
34:23
Speaker 1: Really right, I know.
34:25
Speaker 2: Right, maybe in a bad mood said something that came
34:28
Speaker 2: across a little room, but that's really just about the
34:31
Speaker 2: extent of it, right, And so it's he's so easy
34:36
Speaker 2: to love, So he's the easiest person.
34:39
Speaker 1: And Josh will correct himself quicker than anybody I've ever known.
34:43
Speaker 1: My husband does too, And I think I think it's
34:45
Speaker 1: important that you know that we are. That we just
34:49
Speaker 1: wrap up with talking about sometimes you have to forgive
34:51
Speaker 1: and never get an apology.
34:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you're looking for the apology to
34:56
Speaker 2: give your forgiveness, and your forgiveness is conditional, right, right,
35:00
Speaker 2: Christ's forgiveness is unconditional. And the only way I was
35:05
Speaker 2: aver Let me try that again, Danny. The only way
35:09
Speaker 2: I was ever able to forgive was to remember the
35:14
Speaker 2: words of Jesus that one there's no exception to the rule,
35:19
Speaker 2: no exception. Two it only hurts you staying bitter. That
35:27
Speaker 2: usually the person that hurt you doesn't care that they
35:29
Speaker 2: hurt you. No, Usually the person that hurt you doesn't care,
35:33
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, sometimes they do, and maybe they apologize,
35:35
Speaker 2: maybe they don't. But the apology shouldn't be what your
35:39
Speaker 2: forgiveness is hinging upon. And God says, we are separate
35:44
Speaker 2: from our sin. And if you see that, people that
35:48
Speaker 2: if you understand how powerful Satan is, if you understand
35:52
Speaker 2: how powerful his influence is, and how wrapped up and
35:55
Speaker 2: oppressed people can get under Satan's they can do some
36:02
Speaker 2: pretty evil crap. And we've I mean, and I just
36:05
Speaker 2: want to spend a little bit of time on here
36:08
Speaker 2: just telling the world a little bit of the good
36:10
Speaker 2: things about my ex, because all they've heard is the abuse,
36:13
Speaker 2: right you've mentioned, Yeah, you know, for most of our marriage,
36:20
Speaker 2: he was a really great provider. He was insanely smart,
36:23
Speaker 2: insanely high i Q. He was a very very talented
36:30
Speaker 2: football player. In fact, he went to the Air Force
36:33
Speaker 2: Academy to play football. Now, I think that his addictions
36:35
Speaker 2: that were already starting and sort of having a girl
36:38
Speaker 2: from back home, he ended up leaving after basic Like,
36:41
Speaker 2: I don't know how he got out of it. But
36:42
Speaker 2: he did it. But you know, you have to be
36:45
Speaker 2: a pretty good football player to get recruited by a
36:47
Speaker 2: D one school. He was a good time man. It
36:52
Speaker 2: was a good time if you're partying with him. I
36:55
Speaker 2: know he loved his girls in the way that he could,
36:59
Speaker 2: in the way that he had capacity to. You know,
37:04
Speaker 2: I know there were moments where he did love me,
37:06
Speaker 2: and he showed me kindness and love. And that's what
37:08
Speaker 2: made it so hard to leave, is that people that
37:10
Speaker 2: are abusive aren't always abusive all the time, sure, right
37:13
Speaker 2: and so, and it's the toxic hope of those times
37:16
Speaker 2: where they're great that make you stay in the cycle.
37:21
Speaker 2: But I forgive him. He was sick, he you know,
37:25
Speaker 2: which is really just demonic oppression, but psychologically ill, a very,
37:30
Speaker 2: very very addicted. There were so many things I could
37:34
Speaker 2: have done wrong, I could have done better and different
37:37
Speaker 2: in my marriage that I have to take accountability for.
37:41
Speaker 2: I know I hurt him, yeah, in a lot of
37:43
Speaker 2: ways too, for sure. Be it reactive abuse or not,
37:47
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. I'm responsible for my behavior and the
37:51
Speaker 2: best option was always to leave instead of abusing somebody back.
37:57
Speaker 1: I mean, I think what you did just now is
38:00
Speaker 1: really healing. So I want to do it too. I
38:03
Speaker 1: want to say some good things about my because there
38:06
Speaker 1: are some good things about him, okay. And I think
38:08
Speaker 1: the issue with me in terms of still working on
38:10
Speaker 1: that forgiveness for you know, towards him, is because there's
38:16
Speaker 1: really never been any rehabilitation.
38:17
Speaker 2: There, right, and he's still alive and in your life
38:20
Speaker 2: and still doing dick things.
38:22
Speaker 1: Right on a certain degree, Yeah, you never he robbed
38:28
Speaker 1: you of your co parenting journey, which I think is
38:30
Speaker 1: he was probably I can understand why that's been a
38:33
Speaker 1: hard piece. It's been very hard well, and it's still
38:36
Speaker 1: hard because I see what it does to John Paul, right,
38:38
Speaker 1: which we've talked about.
38:39
Speaker 2: That's what is hard, is just because of how it
38:41
Speaker 2: hurts your Yes.
38:44
Speaker 1: But there are there. He has some really great qualities too.
38:47
Speaker 1: You know. He was always a really good time. He
38:49
Speaker 1: could meet a friend wherever we went, you know, when
38:52
Speaker 1: we would go and do things, we were always meeting people.
38:56
Speaker 1: He loved to go out and really like travel. And
39:00
Speaker 1: he was a fantastic gift giver. He never was short
39:04
Speaker 1: on giving the best gifts. He is smart, and he
39:09
Speaker 1: is a good dad. I mean, even you know, in
39:13
Speaker 1: terms of like loving, supporting, wanting his time with his children.
39:17
Speaker 2: He's always wanted his always.
39:19
Speaker 1: I mean, that was the issue, right. We fought over time,
39:21
Speaker 1: and we fought over time since John Paul's been little.
39:24
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until a good friend of mine, you know,
39:28
Speaker 1: I was complaining, ambittioning about him one time and he
39:31
Speaker 1: just kind of stopped me and he said, at least
39:34
Speaker 1: he wants to see his son. And I was like,
39:36
Speaker 1: and it was just like this like epiphanal moment where
39:40
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, You're right. It could
39:42
Speaker 1: be worse. He could want nothing to do with this son,
39:45
Speaker 1: but he's always wanted his time with John Paul. And
39:48
Speaker 1: you know, and there was even something that happened a
39:50
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago and JP was kind of upset
39:53
Speaker 1: with his dad and I just reassured him. I'm like,
39:55
Speaker 1: you know, I said, your dad's his heart is in
39:58
Speaker 1: the right place and he loved loves you so.
40:01
Speaker 2: Much, and that I know, and does he always love
40:06
Speaker 2: in the right way now? And can we acknowledge the
40:08
Speaker 2: hurt that that causes. Sure? And I think you do
40:11
Speaker 2: a good job with JP of really never throwing Paul
40:15
Speaker 2: under the bus, but also teaching JP how to set
40:18
Speaker 2: boundaries in that relationship and to advocate for himself in
40:22
Speaker 2: the relationship when something doesn't feel good right or when
40:24
Speaker 2: something feels grossly unfair.
40:25
Speaker 1: And that's what he did. Eventually, he ended up taking
40:28
Speaker 1: up for himself, and I was really proud of him.
40:30
Speaker 1: But I told him, you know, at the same time,
40:32
Speaker 1: you still have to acknowledge and respect your dad. You know,
40:36
Speaker 1: is he doing everything right? No, but he's right. He
40:39
Speaker 1: was right. His dad was right about what he was doing.
40:41
Speaker 1: He just wasn't doing it right right, which was an
40:45
Speaker 1: issue you know, that Paul and I had, Like I
40:47
Speaker 1: can think back on so many things that you know,
40:49
Speaker 1: a lot of the issues that Paul had with me
40:53
Speaker 1: were completely legitimate. Like I was, I would go spend,
40:58
Speaker 1: I would go drop, like ridiculous out some money at Walmart,
41:01
Speaker 1: and He'd be like, why are you doing this? Why
41:03
Speaker 1: are you doing this? And I had no explanation for it,
41:05
Speaker 1: And so of course it caused problems in our.
41:07
Speaker 2: Relationship because it was a coping mechanism.
41:09
Speaker 1: Right, and he you know, and I look back at
41:10
Speaker 1: that and I'm like, I think he was trying to
41:11
Speaker 1: help me, you know, he just didn't know how. He
41:14
Speaker 1: didn't know how. So I'll give him that credit, and uh,
41:17
Speaker 1: you know, because that helps me again, it helps me
41:19
Speaker 1: on my forgiveness journey for him.
41:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am. I have really changed a lot of
41:27
Speaker 2: my values and political stances, values, et cetera, et cetera.
41:36
Speaker 2: That and they used to be opposite of my first husband. Yeah,
41:39
Speaker 2: And I don't know how many fights we had about
41:41
Speaker 2: things that I now agree would have agreed with him, right,
41:45
Speaker 2: So I I feel like, shoot, dude, I'm sorry about that, right.
41:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
41:52
Speaker 2: And when I when I go to the grave site,
41:54
Speaker 2: which isn't very often anymore, I just say, you know,
41:58
Speaker 2: I'm sorry for my part in it, but you know,
42:01
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, but I can't I can't keep the
42:06
Speaker 2: blame right that he made the choices that he did.
42:09
Speaker 2: I can't know that with that guilty it's not for
42:11
Speaker 2: me to carry. I've healed past that, and I feel
42:16
Speaker 2: like it's so sad that his life ended at thirty six,
42:19
Speaker 2: so young, so young. But I also know that sometimes
42:24
Speaker 2: I think God just makes the decision like, man, you're
42:27
Speaker 2: just better off with me, you know. Yeah, And so
42:33
Speaker 2: I forgive him wholly completely one for every negative, hurtful
42:39
Speaker 2: thing he ever did.
42:41
Speaker 1: And the family, because that's a big piece, Like.
42:43
Speaker 2: The family has still ongoing issues, which has been very very.
42:48
Speaker 1: Tough to to forgive, you know, my excess family, and I.
42:51
Speaker 2: Have to be forgiving as I go.
42:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a journey.
42:55
Speaker 2: Like strong boundaries. Yeah, yeah, like the strongest boundaries. I've
43:00
Speaker 2: had to have these strongest currently have to have the
43:03
Speaker 2: strongest boundaries in place because things are not easy.
43:06
Speaker 1: I mean situation, my excess family signed to FI David's
43:10
Speaker 1: claiming that I put the physical, mental, and emotional wellbeing
43:13
Speaker 1: of my child in danger and I had to forgive that.
43:16
Speaker 1: So think speaking of forgiving the unforgivable, and I really
43:20
Speaker 1: have to do it because there's been repair there though,
43:23
Speaker 1: So that again, the magic happens in the repair.
43:25
Speaker 2: Right, it happens because it's repairing within yourself. Yes, it's
43:30
Speaker 2: the repair of not only do I forgive this person,
43:33
Speaker 2: but I forgive any part that I may have played
43:36
Speaker 2: in it as well. You know, of course, you know
43:41
Speaker 2: there are people that are one hundred percent victimized, but
43:44
Speaker 2: a lot of times in abusive dynamics, there is some
43:47
Speaker 2: accountability that we have to have for staying as long
43:50
Speaker 2: as we did, or for reactive abuse or whatever. We
43:53
Speaker 2: still take accountability and say, yes, I should have left.
43:56
Speaker 2: Leaving was the answer, and that's not what I did right, right,
43:59
Speaker 2: But we know all of the things that make it
44:01
Speaker 2: really really hard to leave, So we forgive ourselves. Because
44:05
Speaker 2: everybody operates to the capacity that they have most people do,
44:12
Speaker 2: you know, It's just that a lot of people haven't
44:15
Speaker 2: realized what their capacity truly is and haven't done the
44:18
Speaker 2: work to achieve what capacity they could have.
44:21
Speaker 1: That's what I say. People don't realize how people don't
44:24
Speaker 1: realize the the You're so powerful, you just don't know it.
44:27
Speaker 1: And if you are looking to forgive the unforgivable and
44:33
Speaker 1: let's work through it. Yeah, and just looking to find
44:35
Speaker 1: more personal power in general, I mean even if you're
44:37
Speaker 1: looking to leave a situation, because sometimes that is the answer.
44:40
Speaker 1: Please go see doctor Hensley at her website at the
44:43
Speaker 1: Dating dcoder dot com. You can check out all of
44:46
Speaker 1: her services there. Lots of new things are coming down
44:50
Speaker 1: the pipeline that we're super excited about. Again. We want
44:53
Speaker 1: to think Cozy Earth. Go get your Cozy earthpjs and
44:56
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. And please if you are loving
44:58
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45:02
Speaker 1: guys so much, and we cannot say that enough how
45:05
Speaker 1: grateful we are. But if you are loving this content,
45:07
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45:11
Speaker 1: and until next time, peace, love, and perspective