Latest / Math Therapy / The way you talk about math matters, even if you don’t teach it w/ Kylie Fraser

Transcript

The way you talk about math matters, even if you don’t teach it w/ Kylie Fraser · Math Therapy

• 0:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Hi, it's me, Vanessa, and welcome to Math Therapy.
• 0:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so earlier this month I keynoted the Mighty Peace Teachers Convention in Grand Prairie, Alberta, which was so special because guys, it was actually my first time back there since 2020, and what's even crazier is back in 2020, it was the first time I had ever presented at a teacher's convention in my life.
• 0:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: And that happens to be when I met today's guest, Kylie Fraser, a math teacher with math trauma, who ended up in one of my sessions back in 2020, and who I've stayed in touch with for the past six years.
• 0:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: We finally reunited IRL and we were like, oh my God, you know what we should do?
• 0:43
  Vanessa Vakharia: We should totally record a podcast like 30 minutes before I do my keynote so that's what we did.
• 0:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: I sat down with Kylie in her very own classroom, which was so cool.
• 0:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: And even though Kylie doesn't even teach math anymore, she has still made it her mission to make sure that the math culture at her school is immaculate.
• 0:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: She's also made it her mission to make sure that the math culture in her household is immaculate for her daughter.
• 1:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: If you work at a school in any capacity, I'm so excited for you to hear Kylie's tips on how to make sure that math anxiety does not dominate those hallways.
• 1:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: And even if you're not in education, Kylie shares practical tips you can use right now to make sure that those around you aren't reinforcing negative stereotypes about math.
• 1:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: Make sure you share this episode with as many people as you can because it truly takes a village to change the bad rep that math has developed.
• 1:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: But we can all be the change we wish to see.
• 1:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Also, before we get into the convo, I've got exciting news, Math Therapy now has its own Facebook group, a community of amazing people just like you, sharing tips, advice, and magical Math Therapy moments.
• 1:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Two amazing teachers from Michigan, Karen and Ryan started it.
• 1:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: And all you have to do to join is head to Facebook, type Math Therapy in your search bar, and request to join.
• 1:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: We are already at a hundred people as of the recording of this podcast episode, and we are growing every day, so please join in.
• 2:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, now for what you actually came here for, my interview with Kylie.
• 2:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 2:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: I am here with Kylie.
• 2:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: We are at Mighty Peace Teachers Convention in Grand Prairie.
• 2:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: And the way we know each other is six years ago I presented here.
• 2:19
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: And we had a rom-com moment.
• 2:22
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah,
• 2:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: it was, can you, I want you to tell the story of how you remember.
• 2:24
  Kylie Fraser: It was like, I saw your presentation
• 2:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: by accident
• 2:28
  Kylie Fraser: listed and I thought, math, trauma like that sounds like me.
• 2:32
  Kylie Fraser: So then I, on a whim, went to your presentation and as you spoke, I was just like, this girl is me.
• 2:37
  Kylie Fraser: Like I can connect to everything you're saying.
• 2:39
  Kylie Fraser: It was like crazy.
• 2:41
  Kylie Fraser: And my husband was sitting next to me and he was just like, you guys are the same, and like everything she stands for is exactly like what you have, you need.
• 2:50
  Kylie Fraser: And I was like, absolutely.
• 2:51
  Kylie Fraser: And then I told you my story about how I have math trauma.
• 2:54
  Kylie Fraser: I'm currently teaching math.
• 2:56
  Kylie Fraser: And,
• 2:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: but tell, tell everyone else.
• 2:58
  Kylie Fraser: And yeah, so it was
• 2:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: like, at the time what were you teaching?
• 3:00
  Kylie Fraser: I was teaching grade nine, math and science.
• 3:03
  Kylie Fraser: And yeah, I had like, I was so nervous because I had my own math, trauma and.
• 3:09
  Kylie Fraser: So I had to really like check myself and be like, you are a teacher.
• 3:13
  Kylie Fraser: You are capable.
• 3:14
  Kylie Fraser: You have all the tools you need.
• 3:15
  Kylie Fraser: You can do this, but your brain really tricks you into thinking that you can't do it because of years of like neglect to yourself.
• 3:24
  Kylie Fraser: And so yeah, I, I taught grade nine math, and ever since I've meeting Vanessa, I've just changed the way that I speak about math.
• 3:31
  Kylie Fraser: And now that I'm not so much in the math world, in my building, I do like to check other people, uh, and make sure that they know to use, proper math language and to not speak about being a math person.
• 3:45
  Kylie Fraser: Um, so I've taken your practices.
• 3:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Ok
• 3:48
  Kylie Fraser: into my religion room.
• 3:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Here's the funniest thing about this, is I love that you are so, are you a trained doctor Because you went full promo mode, you, she turned to the camera, okay, for those listening, she turned to the camera and started speaking about me in third person.
• 4:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: I use Vanessa's, that was amazing.
• 4:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: I did not pay her to do that.
• 4:05
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, so I wanna go back a bit.
• 4:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: First of all, that was very well articulated.
• 4:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you.
• 4:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Um, we're actually sitting here together'cause I'm about to do a keynote and Kylie generously offered to jump on the pod before we did it.
• 4:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 4:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Which is of the perfect hype up for me.
• 4:18
  Vanessa Vakharia: Can you, do you feel comfortable sharing like what you feel your experience was with math that led to math trauma?
• 4:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like were there specific things?
• 4:24
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah, like in school, the teachers would be like, oh, you're not smart enough to go into like the regular math class in high school.
• 4:31
  Kylie Fraser: Like I said, yeah, in like grade nine, you like start streaming yourself.
• 4:35
  Kylie Fraser: And they were like, you're gonna go into like the low math.
• 4:38
  Kylie Fraser: And I was like, but I feel like I'm not.
• 4:40
  Kylie Fraser: Slow math.
• 4:42
  Kylie Fraser: I felt like I wasn't, and then I've like, I'm being quite honest, I've blocked a lot of that out from my memory, which is awful.
• 4:50
  Kylie Fraser: But like I don't have a ton of memories from high school about math because it is so like, yeah, your brain protects you and like gets rid of it.
• 4:59
  Kylie Fraser: But yeah, they basically said that I like couldn't do that math.
• 5:02
  Kylie Fraser: And so I convinced myself that I wasn't a math person.
• 5:05
  Kylie Fraser: Um, but I didn't have anyone who like said, actually girl, you're crazy, you're not.
• 5:10
  Kylie Fraser: Like, that's not a thing.
• 5:11
  Kylie Fraser: Um, I just kind of believed it all the way through.
• 5:13
  Kylie Fraser: And then I got to university and I took stats, math, and I failed it twice.
• 5:18
  Kylie Fraser: And I've learned, it's just because I didn't push myself enough.
• 5:22
  Kylie Fraser: Like I definitely could have done better in all of the things, but I didn't push myself and I just let myself fail it.
• 5:30
  Kylie Fraser: So, yeah.
• 5:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: Can I ask like, that's, it's interesting because like I hear you say that and I'm like, oh, like I don't want you to like,'cause I feel so self blamey, to be like, I didn't push myself.
• 5:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 5:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I wonder if, and tell me if I'm incorrect, do you feel like you didn't push yourself because you didn't believe you could do more or because there was no one supporting you?
• 5:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like
• 5:49
  Kylie Fraser: Both totally.
• 5:50
  Kylie Fraser: Okay.
• 5:50
  Kylie Fraser: So like I do have the like.
• 5:52
  Kylie Fraser: Family side of trauma too, where I don't, I didn't have a support person in my life, so that contributes to it.
• 5:58
  Kylie Fraser: Like I didn't have a supportive family being like, you can do whatever you wanna do.
• 6:01
  Kylie Fraser: But also that contributed to me not having it in my own self, just to be like, you can do it.
• 6:07
  Kylie Fraser: So there was a twofold there.
• 6:09
  Kylie Fraser: Just,
• 6:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 6:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: And honestly, I think that's so important to note This idea of like even when we look at our students and we're like, they're not pushing themselves often the voice in their head is the voice of those around them.
• 6:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's really important to know that like we have to have that compassion of being like our students, they're kids.
• 6:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 6:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: And actually even as adults, like the voices that tell us whether or not to push ourselves often come from years of.
• 6:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: What people have told us.
• 6:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 6:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like, yes.
• 6:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Now you can reflect on that.
• 6:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 6:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: But, okay, so what I also wanna go back to, first of all, thanks for sharing that.
• 6:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: And like, I'm so sorry.
• 6:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: That just sucks.
• 6:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 6:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: But look at you now, right?
• 6:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 6:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: So six years ago you come to my session.
• 6:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yay.
• 6:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm so glad you were there.
• 6:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Um, and I think you, I think you spoke in front of the whole room When you shared this, it was like such a moment we
• 6:52
  Kylie Fraser: had.
• 6:52
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 6:52
  Kylie Fraser: And that was the first time I ever like openly admitted.
• 6:55
  Kylie Fraser: That like I had math, trauma or that I had anxiety about teaching math.
• 6:59
  Kylie Fraser: I was very like, that was my like aha moment where I'm like, oh yeah, I am.
• 7:04
  Kylie Fraser: And I do, and I say, I said the things out loud for the first time, which was like liberating and validating.
• 7:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: Wow.
• 7:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: My God, you're making me feel so good.
• 7:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: But you know what, I'm also thinking, honestly, this is like kind of a tangent.
• 7:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: We say a lot about one and done pd, like, we're like, Oh, you can't impact someone if it just happens really fast.
• 7:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Absolutely.
• 7:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: The words you say are impactful.
• 7:25
  Kylie Fraser: Absolutely.
• 7:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: So like, yes, it's
• 7:26
  Kylie Fraser: like, and you never know who's listening.
• 7:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: You never know who's listening.
• 7:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 7:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: I think it's important for teachers to know that too.
• 7:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like the words you say.
• 7:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like you asking a student About their negative experience with math can open something up in them.
• 7:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: So,
• 7:37
  Kylie Fraser: yeah.
• 7:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: So at the time you were teaching math and you started changing your language, and you said something about how not only did you change your own language, but you, and this is so Kylie by the way, we've kept in touch over Instagram, so we haven't seen each other in like years, but she is the coolest, and I love that you're like, and now I check, you know, you started checking other people.
• 7:55
  Vanessa Vakharia: What kind of language things did you notice that you or others were saying, and what was your correction?
• 8:00
  Kylie Fraser: Oh my gosh.
• 8:00
  Kylie Fraser: Okay.
• 8:01
  Kylie Fraser: So there's two things I really wanna talk about.
• 8:03
  Kylie Fraser: There's the things in my building, and then there's the things that I see that are just like in our everyday life.
• 8:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Love it.
• 8:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Let's go.
• 8:08
  Kylie Fraser: The first is that in our building, and like in any school, there are people who are like, oh, I'm not a math person.
• 8:15
  Kylie Fraser: You know, dah, dah, dah, dah.
• 8:15
  Kylie Fraser: Or.
• 8:16
  Kylie Fraser: The anxiety that you see.
• 8:18
  Kylie Fraser: So maybe they're not saying it out loud, but their body language says that they are like overwhelmed that they don't believe in themselves.
• 8:25
  Kylie Fraser: And I, that's what I'm seeing, like especially in grade 11, is just absolute meltdowns of students and like they become a different person in the bathroom.
• 8:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 8:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: So I want you to, so just for everyone to know, Kylie is not teaching math right now-Ish.
• 8:40
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 8:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like you are teaching reli.
• 8:41
  Kylie Fraser: I'm co-teaching a math so I full-time religion, but two weeks ago, I a got asked to co-teach a math 20 dash two class.
• 8:49
  Kylie Fraser: Now past Kylie would've been like, no, absolutely not.
• 8:52
  Kylie Fraser: And there were several people who were like, absolutely not.
• 8:55
  Kylie Fraser: I'm not doing that.
• 8:55
  Kylie Fraser: But I instantly started Googling as they were asking me, okay, you know, I've never done it before.
• 9:01
  Kylie Fraser: I've never actually taught high school side of math.
• 9:03
  Kylie Fraser: But if I can learn it, I can teach it.
• 9:06
  Kylie Fraser: Mm.
• 9:06
  Kylie Fraser: And so I instantly started googling the curriculum.
• 9:08
  Kylie Fraser: Like what's in 20 dash two math.
• 9:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: And what's 20?
• 9:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: What grade is that?
• 9:10
  Kylie Fraser: It's grade 11.
• 9:11
  Kylie Fraser: Okay.
• 9:11
  Kylie Fraser: And it would be like the second tier of, of math.
• 9:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 9:14
  Kylie Fraser: Um, and so yeah, so I am currently in there, um, helping the teacher out.
• 9:19
  Kylie Fraser: And so I initially was like, I can't do this.
• 9:22
  Kylie Fraser: And then I was like, yes, you can.
• 9:24
  Kylie Fraser: So I actively listen and I am learning as I go and I am providing not only the teaching for the students, but also like the therapy side of it, because they are completely different students.
• 9:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 9:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Tell us about it.
• 9:36
  Kylie Fraser: So like, I
• 9:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: and you see them early.
• 9:39
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 9:39
  Kylie Fraser: So I teach them religion and my room is very zen and quiet and like we, it's just a time of reflection and they, and they get what they need in here.
• 9:47
  Kylie Fraser: If they need to study, they study.
• 9:49
  Kylie Fraser: If they need to learn, they learn.
• 9:50
  Kylie Fraser: I meet them where they're at in the day, but.
• 9:54
  Kylie Fraser: Seeing those same students in the math room was like life changing for me.
• 9:58
  Kylie Fraser: They, their complete demeanor changes.
• 10:00
  Kylie Fraser: They're, they're red in the face, they're sweating profusely, they're snapping at each other, like their brain chemistry changes.
• 10:08
  Kylie Fraser: Their cortisol levels are going up, and it's all over.
• 10:12
  Kylie Fraser: A math problem.
• 10:14
  Kylie Fraser: And they are telling themselves they can't do it.
• 10:16
  Kylie Fraser: And they've convinced themselves that they are not good enough and then they spiral.
• 10:20
  Kylie Fraser: Well, I need to get into criminology and, and university.
• 10:23
  Kylie Fraser: I need to do this.
• 10:24
  Kylie Fraser: I need to do that.
• 10:24
  Kylie Fraser: And I'm like, girl, like, she's like, I need a sociology degree.
• 10:28
  Kylie Fraser: I'm like, I have a sociology degree.
• 10:31
  Kylie Fraser: I have that.
• 10:32
  Kylie Fraser: And I didn't do the math.
• 10:34
  Kylie Fraser: Like I, I struggled with the math and I, and I failed stats twice in university and I still came out with a sociology degree.
• 10:41
  Kylie Fraser: Even saying that they still didn't believe me, like it's going to take a lot of convincing that they can do it.
• 10:49
  Kylie Fraser: But having someone in there just to like acknowledge their fears and understand where they're coming from, I think is huge.
• 10:56
  Kylie Fraser: And just like being their safe space and listening to them is going to make a huge difference in the end.
• 11:03
  Kylie Fraser: But like you can see it, they are just.
• 11:06
  Kylie Fraser: It is a flip.
• 11:08
  Kylie Fraser: A flip of a switch.
• 11:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: A flip of a switch.
• 11:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: What do you think is different about like a religion class and a math class that makes that happen's is crazy?
• 11:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Or is it, is it the class or like, what is it?
• 11:16
  Kylie Fraser: It's so bizarre.
• 11:17
  Kylie Fraser: Like I, like, I don't know what it is, but I think that they hold math to a high, well, I mean, I don't think, I know they hold math to a higher standard, and so they know that they have to receive these certain grades to get onto a certain class, to be able to go to a certain thing, and so.
• 11:34
  Kylie Fraser: It's not, and they're very concerned about the number.
• 11:37
  Kylie Fraser: Which is scary.
• 11:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like the grade.
• 11:38
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 11:38
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 11:39
  Kylie Fraser: So like, it's, yeah.
• 11:40
  Kylie Fraser: It's, it's just a reworking of the entire framework and just.
• 11:44
  Kylie Fraser: Math is scary for them.
• 11:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you, something you said earlier, I want to touch on when you were like, I tell them about my own exp experience.
• 11:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is one of the most helpful things, right?
• 11:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Is to be like, listen, like I failed math, like I'm fine.
• 11:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 11:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like that, the modeling of it.
• 11:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 11:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you said they still don't believe me.
• 12:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: No.
• 12:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Tell me more about that.
• 12:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like in what sense?
• 12:02
  Kylie Fraser: So they, I say like, I have that degree.
• 12:04
  Kylie Fraser: That's what you're going to school for if that's your, if that's your goal.
• 12:07
  Kylie Fraser: And it's like, yeah, but like I'm different.
• 12:10
  Kylie Fraser: Or it's like, but I can't, so.
• 12:14
  Kylie Fraser: They just instantly shoot it down as like, they're not, it's not possible for them to, to do it.
• 12:19
  Kylie Fraser: So it's kind of sad to see them have that like negative self-talk.
• 12:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: What do you think, like,'cause obviously you are making such an impact, right?
• 12:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: By, you're just such a, you're such a vibe and you are sharing your real experience.
• 12:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: What do you feel actually makes that change?
• 12:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Do you feel like it's like repetitive over time of you telling that story?
• 12:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like at what point do they start to deescalate a bit?
• 12:40
  Kylie Fraser: Absolutely.
• 12:41
  Kylie Fraser: I think it's like exactly like your analogy yesterday with the salt water.
• 12:44
  Kylie Fraser: Like it's just overfilling their cup with like clean, fresh ideas and like positive affirmations.
• 12:51
  Kylie Fraser: But it starts so early.
• 12:53
  Kylie Fraser: So this is where I've seen it and I like was enraged.
• 12:56
  Kylie Fraser: My daughter had a book, she brought it over, we were reading it.
• 12:59
  Kylie Fraser: We were three pages into this unicorn book.
• 13:02
  Vanessa Vakharia: LA unicorn book.
• 13:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Girl.
• 13:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: How old is she?
• 13:04
  Kylie Fraser: Six.
• 13:05
  Kylie Fraser: Okay.
• 13:06
  Kylie Fraser: Okay.
• 13:06
  Kylie Fraser: Very impressionable.
• 13:07
  Kylie Fraser: At six years old.
• 13:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Six is the age where things start to turn
• 13:10
  Kylie Fraser: Three pages into the book, the unicorn says, I'm never, I've never been a math unicorn.
• 13:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Stop.
• 13:16
  Kylie Fraser: And I shut the book and got rid of the book because like, what are we doing?
• 13:23
  Kylie Fraser: Like it was in a kid's unicorn book.
• 13:27
  Kylie Fraser: Innocent.
• 13:28
  Kylie Fraser: And, and that is the language that we're perpetuating.
• 13:32
  Kylie Fraser: It drives me crazy.
• 13:34
  Vanessa Vakharia: What book is this?
• 13:34
  Kylie Fraser: I'm gonna take a picture of it.
• 13:35
  Kylie Fraser: We need to find it.
• 13:36
  Kylie Fraser: I totally like, I was so mad I couldn't even take a picture of it and be like, look, Vanessa.
• 13:41
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 13:41
  Kylie Fraser: Like you instantly came to my mind like.
• 13:43
  Kylie Fraser: This cannot be happening.
• 13:45
  Kylie Fraser: And I yelled to my husband, like this book just talked about being a math unicorn.
• 13:49
  Kylie Fraser: And I got, and I just like put it away.
• 13:51
  Kylie Fraser: I was like, we're not reading this anymore.
• 13:52
  Kylie Fraser: But like, if it's in that,
• 13:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: if it's in that
• 13:54
  Kylie Fraser: context, it's everywhere.
• 13:56
  Kylie Fraser: It's on TikTok, it's on Instagram, it's on everything.
• 13:59
  Kylie Fraser: And they are seeing that and they're letting girl math like, oh, it's girl math.
• 14:03
  Kylie Fraser: Like that was a huge thing for a while.
• 14:05
  Kylie Fraser: Socials are also perpetuating that.
• 14:07
  Kylie Fraser: And that's what they're looking at 90% of their day, so
• 14:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: a hundred percent.
• 14:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 14:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: So tell me, oh my God.
• 14:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm like, how did this start?
• 14:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: But we were talking about the language you see at school and outside.
• 14:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Did you rant about everything you wanted to rant about or are there more like, tell us more things?
• 14:19
  Kylie Fraser: Well, I, I also like, just because I'm not in a math class now, I still, whenever, like someone I work with says.
• 14:26
  Kylie Fraser: Something negative about math, I instantly check them.
• 14:29
  Kylie Fraser: And I think that's the most important thing is you don't have to be a math person to take your sessions.
• 14:34
  Kylie Fraser: I think anybody should be taking your sessions because it's for everybody to change their perspective on it.
• 14:39
  Kylie Fraser: Just because you don't teach math does not mean you don't hear people talking about math in a negative way, and it's your job as an educator.
• 14:45
  Kylie Fraser: Just shut that down.
• 14:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh.
• 14:47
  Kylie Fraser: Just like you wouldn't let bullying happen or you wouldn't let anything else happen, like you shouldn't be letting.
• 14:51
  Kylie Fraser: The perpetuation of negative self-talk around a subject happen.
• 14:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: I just wanna like pause of how epic that is.
• 14:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Well, and like I always say, we're not all teachers of math, but we're all teachers of math attitudes.
• 15:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 15:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: And like I think this is really cool that you are not, you're not, you're teaching religion right now.
• 15:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: And it's still in your mind to be like, I love how you just compared it to bullying.
• 15:12
  Kylie Fraser: It's the same thing.
• 15:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: It, it really kind of, in a way is, especially because so much of the math language we see at schools is pejorative.
• 15:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: It might be like calling someone a nerd or like making fun of them for being smart or like being on the robotics team or like this idea like fine, it's not, it might not always be direct bullying, but treating it the same way of being like, oh, this language is harmful.
• 15:33
  Kylie Fraser: It is.
• 15:33
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 15:34
  Kylie Fraser: And coming from a teacher especially is even more harmful.
• 15:36
  Kylie Fraser: Oh.
• 15:36
  Kylie Fraser: So like, do not be a professional.
• 15:39
  Kylie Fraser: And use that language about a subject at all.
• 15:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah, I definitely have English teacher friends who are like will say in front of their students.
• 15:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 15:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, oh, like I don't, you know, calculating your grade.
• 15:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Double check.
• 15:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: 'cause I'm not a math person.
• 15:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: Exactly.
• 15:50
  Vanessa Vakharia: And I'm like, oh my God.
• 15:51
  Vanessa Vakharia: So tell me what kinds, I think this is so great.
• 15:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: How can we check people, as you put it, what things can we say?
• 15:57
  Kylie Fraser: Oh, it's like if you're in the staff room and you hear someone talking about math in a certain way, like in any context it could be them talking about their taxes they have to do, or they're gonna get someone else to do this because they're not good at at calculating the thing.
• 16:10
  Kylie Fraser: Like just boosting up their confidence too and telling them like, you are capable of doing that.
• 16:17
  Kylie Fraser: You can learn anything and do anything if you want to.
• 16:20
  Kylie Fraser: And so.
• 16:21
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah, just if it's negative self talk about themselves, like checking them and being like, no, girl, you're good.
• 16:26
  Kylie Fraser: You got this.
• 16:27
  Kylie Fraser: And like you can do it.
• 16:29
  Kylie Fraser: And then if they're talking about a student or if they're using that language around a student, I just call them out on it.
• 16:34
  Kylie Fraser: Like, you should not be saying that around a student, or you should not be talking about math that way as, uh, insert whatever subject you teach.
• 16:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: How, what kind of reactions have you gotten?
• 16:43
  Kylie Fraser: People are like, yeah, oh yeah, you're right.
• 16:46
  Kylie Fraser: Like they, they do understand that it is.
• 16:48
  Kylie Fraser: Uh, you know, it's negative talk and I think they are, people are more aware of it now that math is like,
• 16:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: you're changing the culture,
• 16:55
  Kylie Fraser: but like, you do have to just not worry about what other people think and just say the thing.
• 16:59
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 17:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: Whenever, you know, you kind of, confront someone and suggest that maybe they should consider a different approach, they might get a bit defensive.
• 17:07
  Kylie Fraser: Oh, absolutely.
• 17:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: That's okay.
• 17:09
  Vanessa Vakharia: Doesn't mean you should say, hundred percent, yeah, and even if they don't agree in the moment, they're gonna think about it.
• 17:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 17:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: But if you never say anything.
• 17:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Exactly.
• 17:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Just like, Um, and I love that you're transforming that school of culture and for anyone who's listening, who is not a math educator, even if you're just not an educator at all.
• 17:23
  Vanessa Vakharia: These are things we can watch out for and address like on the street.
• 17:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: I mean, I hear people say this kind of stuff all the time.
• 17:28
  Kylie Fraser: It's everywhere.
• 17:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's everywhere like it, so it's like any opportunity you can get.
• 17:32
  Vanessa Vakharia: So give us a few things we can say.
• 17:35
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like somebody makes a comment like being like, Ugh, I'm just not a math person.
• 17:38
  Vanessa Vakharia: Or like, oh, there's like too much math in this.
• 17:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like I was never naturally good at this.
• 17:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Or they say one of those things.
• 17:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: After you like calm down from being like, oh my God, it's happening.
• 17:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 17:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: What are a few, um, approaches we can take?
• 17:50
  Kylie Fraser: Uh, well, I've always used like your approach of like, have you had a bad experience with math before?
• 17:56
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 17:56
  Kylie Fraser: And just prying into like what has given you this like notion that you can't do it.
• 18:01
  Kylie Fraser: Or I go to, like, has someone told you you're not good at math?
• 18:05
  Kylie Fraser: Or I say like, well, don't you like you use this all the time, and I'll find an example in their life, like off the bat, that they can use.
• 18:13
  Kylie Fraser: So people are like, oh, I'm never gonna use this math again.
• 18:15
  Kylie Fraser: I'm like, well, don't you like, don't you build houses for a living?
• 18:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right.
• 18:19
  Kylie Fraser: Or like, don't you work.
• 18:22
  Kylie Fraser: In a store like you use math all the time.
• 18:25
  Kylie Fraser: I just don't think that people realize that they're using it.
• 18:27
  Kylie Fraser: Mm.
• 18:27
  Kylie Fraser: So I connect it back to their, their jobs as much as I can.
• 18:31
  Kylie Fraser: Um, but yeah, you have to like self validate and just like ask them where they're coming from with that.
• 18:37
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 18:37
  Kylie Fraser: Nine times outta 10, it's something that someone said to them, um, and just prying because they will likely open up to you about what happened, but also.
• 18:47
  Kylie Fraser: Like relating it back to their real life.
• 18:50
  Kylie Fraser: Like you, you do this all the time, you just don't realize it.
• 18:52
  Vanessa Vakharia: Mm-hmm.
• 18:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love this and I, I mean, I love the approach of asking, right?
• 18:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: And seeing where they're coming from before you then like figure out what to say next.
• 19:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 19:01
  Vanessa Vakharia: And again, often just asking allows them to be like, oh yeah.
• 19:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, I guess it's weird that I say that, or like,
• 19:06
  Kylie Fraser: You're providing the space for them to like open up about it.
• 19:09
  Kylie Fraser: Because no one's probably ever asked them.
• 19:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Well, and that's the thing nobody's probably ever asked them.
• 19:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like, if you guys are listening right now, you're listening to this podcast.
• 19:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is probably like a, nor maybe not, but it's probably like a normal conversation or it's like a normalized conversation and you're asking people that, and you're talking about it, but on the whole, this is not happening, right.
• 19:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is like a very like niche space.
• 19:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's like the Math Therapy podcast, it's,
• 19:30
  Kylie Fraser: yeah.
• 19:31
  Vanessa Vakharia: So it's like to even just ask, like, like you said in, in my session was the first time you'd been asked and responded.
• 19:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: That can open things up and never to underestimate the impact that can make.
• 19:40
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 19:40
  Vanessa Vakharia: You are so inspiring.
• 19:41
  Vanessa Vakharia: I wanna keep talking to you, but I do need, we need to go,
• 19:44
  Kylie Fraser: I mean, you have like 500 people to talk to now.
• 19:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: Well, and also this man is trying to get into this room for a session.
• 19:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Um, is there anything like you wanna say that I'm not No.
• 19:52
  Kylie Fraser: Like you have literally transformed my life.
• 19:54
  Kylie Fraser: Oh my God.
• 19:54
  Kylie Fraser: So, and like it's just keep doing what you're doing and I think you don't understand who you're touching with all these sessions that you do.
• 20:01
  Kylie Fraser: I know that you're all over the place, but there's always gonna be some.
• 20:04
  Kylie Fraser: One from each one of those places.
• 20:06
  Kylie Fraser: Here's gonna take something from you
• 20:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: That is so nice, Kylie, but like, you are the one who I wanna thank.
• 20:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Right?
• 20:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like all these people, you're checking, all these comments you're making being a zen place for students, like giving them that space like that makes a difference.
• 20:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: And you're probably just so used to it.
• 20:21
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah, I But think about it, you're, but yeah, but you need to know that like you're changing lives every day.
• 20:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: I should ask you the two questions I ask everyone before we go.
• 20:29
  Kylie Fraser: Okay.
• 20:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: The first one is, if you could change one thing about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?
• 20:35
  Kylie Fraser: I would make it exactly like what you showed us yesterday, where we like make it more relatable and fun to start and then sneak it in.
• 20:43
  Kylie Fraser: 'Cause I think we just jump right into the, the nitty gritty of math problems instead of like.
• 20:51
  Kylie Fraser: Hey, you guys do this already and you've already done this.
• 20:54
  Kylie Fraser: Like, tell me more about this.
• 20:56
  Kylie Fraser: And so we don't make it relatable to kids at all.
• 20:59
  Kylie Fraser: And, and I think we need to make it very relatable in this day and age.
• 21:03
  Kylie Fraser: Kids don't want, don't wanna do anything.
• 21:05
  Kylie Fraser: That's not their vibe.
• 21:07
  Kylie Fraser: And if it's not something that they can see themselves doing, they're checked out, so
• 21:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: They're checked out.
• 21:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 21:13
  Vanessa Vakharia: There's so many other options for them.
• 21:14
  Kylie Fraser: Exactly.
• 21:15
  Vanessa Vakharia: Love it.
• 21:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: And finally, I mean, this is funny to ask you now, but I, I do have to ask.
• 21:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: If someone's listening to this whole thing and they're like, Ugh, Kylie was awesome, but like, no, for real, I'm just not a math person.
• 21:25
  Vanessa Vakharia: What would you say?
• 21:26
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah, you're a math person.
• 21:27
  Kylie Fraser: Everybody's a math person.
• 21:29
  Kylie Fraser: Like literally, I think that you just need to like check yourself and see where you're using.
• 21:35
  Kylie Fraser: Your math, there are so many things you do in your day that you just don't realize you're using your, your tools.
• 21:41
  Kylie Fraser: You already have them innately in you.
• 21:43
  Kylie Fraser: And just because someone doesn't give you an A plus on it doesn't mean you're not doing
• 21:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: it.
• 21:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Mm.
• 21:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: And this is the thing too, I'm gonna add on to that to be like, most often when we say we're not doing.
• 21:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's because we, we don't count the math we're doing as valuable.
• 21:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 21:58
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because it was never graded.
• 21:59
  Kylie Fraser: Exactly.
• 22:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: But it is, that's just bullshit.
• 22:01
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 22:02
  Kylie Fraser: You are being your, you are living your life.
• 22:04
  Vanessa Vakharia: You're living your,
• 22:05
  Kylie Fraser: you're adulting with math.
• 22:07
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 22:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you so much.
• 22:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: I'm gonna, you know what, I'm gonna do the, I never do this, but I'm just gonna do the outro right now.
• 22:11
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 22:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: Because we're here.
• 22:12
  Vanessa Vakharia: So we're gonna do the outro together.
• 22:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: If you have been listening, which you have been, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
• 22:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 22:16
  Vanessa Vakharia: Thank you so much.
• 22:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is actually very, very special.
• 22:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: I never, I love this so much.
• 22:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love that you just agreed to do this.
• 22:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 22:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love that.
• 22:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: We met.
• 22:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Six years ago in Grand Prairie,
• 22:24
  Kylie Fraser: and it's like nothing ever changed.
• 22:26
  Vanessa Vakharia: I know, I know.
• 22:27
  Vanessa Vakharia: I love it so much.
• 22:28
  Vanessa Vakharia: We, I've learned so much from you over the past six years.
• 22:30
  Vanessa Vakharia: Like we've been messaging each other, like, Kylie updates me.
• 22:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: It's so great.
• 22:34
  Kylie Fraser: I had a full ass baby.
• 22:36
  Kylie Fraser: Between like this.
• 22:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: I did not
• 22:38
  Kylie Fraser: even, yeah, like right.
• 22:39
  Kylie Fraser: Six years.
• 22:39
  Vanessa Vakharia: She's six
• 22:40
  Kylie Fraser: pregnant.
• 22:40
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 22:41
  Kylie Fraser: I was pregnant with her when, and now I'm like reading her stories about math.
• 22:44
  Vanessa Vakharia: Oh my God.
• 22:45
  Vanessa Vakharia: What a full circle.
• 22:46
  Vanessa Vakharia: This circle of life.
• 22:47
  Vanessa Vakharia: Literally.
• 22:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 22:48
  Vanessa Vakharia: You guys can text the podcast.
• 22:49
  Vanessa Vakharia: Me and Kylie wanna know what you think so you can hit the link in the show notes.
• 22:53
  Vanessa Vakharia: Text the podcast.
• 22:54
  Vanessa Vakharia: Remember, we cannot see your name or your contact info.
• 22:57
  Vanessa Vakharia: So if you want us to respond, you've gotta provide that.
• 23:00
  Vanessa Vakharia: you can DM me at Instagram at the Math Guru.
• 23:03
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can tag me and I'm gonna, I'll share it with Kylie.
• 23:06
  Vanessa Vakharia: You can email me vanessa@themathgu.ca.
• 23:08
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is, so, should we give them like a piece of homework?
• 23:10
  Vanessa Vakharia: How about it's just like to check themselves?
• 23:12
  Kylie Fraser: Show me your math.
• 23:13
  Kylie Fraser: Show me your math.
• 23:14
  Vanessa Vakharia: Show me your math.
• 23:15
  Kylie Fraser: Using your math every day.
• 23:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 23:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: There it is.
• 23:17
  Vanessa Vakharia: So texts dm, must do something.
• 23:19
  Vanessa Vakharia: Show us your math.
• 23:20
  Vanessa Vakharia: This was so fun.
• 23:22
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay, we're gonna go to my session now.
• 23:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: Okay.
• 23:24
  Vanessa Vakharia: Bye.
• 23:29
  Vanessa Vakharia: Hi.
• 23:30
  Kylie Fraser: No, not right now.
• 23:32
  Kylie Fraser: Probably at nine o'clock.
• 23:33
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 23:33
  Vanessa Vakharia: We're just recording a podcast.
• 23:36
  Vanessa Vakharia: Don't, don't edit this out.
• 23:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: David.
• 23:37
  Vanessa Vakharia: This is real, the real life in the school.
• 23:40
  Kylie Fraser: Is there a session in here?
• 23:41
  Kylie Fraser: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Vanessa Vakharia: We are having a session.
• 23:43
  Kylie Fraser: Busy.
• 23:43
  Kylie Fraser: You're not, you're not invited.