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Real Women Have Curves with Mala Muñoz · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bel cast. The questions asked if movies have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: women in them? Are All their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The Patriarchy? Zef in, best start
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: changing it with the Beck del cast. Jamie, it's so
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: hot in here. Can you please turn the fan on
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: in this recording studio? It gets, it gets the PODCAST, dusty, can't.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Can't turn on the fan. The podcast will be covered.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: It does, it will be a catastrophe for us. Sorry,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: we'll fine. I'll just take off all my clothes then.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: All right, that's not my business. I guess I'll do
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: the same. Cool, same, yeah, that sounds great. Actually, the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: only person that's going to piss off is mommy, Mommy podcast. Cool. Well,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I'm glad we sorted that out. Yeah, that I get
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: that resolved very cleanly. Welcome to the Bechtel cast. My
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Darante, my name is Jamie Loftus, and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: this is our podcast where we take a look at
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist Lens, using the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion, which,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of course, is a media metric created by careeer cartoonist
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, whereby two
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: people of a marginalized gender have to have names, they
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: have to speak to each other and their conversation has
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to be about something other than a man, and ideally,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: for our sake, it is a meaningful, substantial conversation and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: not just like Hey, what Um now, keep this going,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: this feels this sounds good, this feels good. How's your soup?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And then the other person says, I'm not listening to you,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: go away, and then the first character disappears forever and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: they're like, my name is crystal as they're leaving, but
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: it's too late. We didn't year it on screen. That's
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: an example of something that is great writing, but not
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: great to pass it. Look anyways, it's a flawed metric,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: because that was an amazing scene we just did. I'm
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: going to base an entire screenplay around it. Yeah, it's
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: called it's gonna be called a suit, an extremely supi movie,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: an extremely no, no, it's not, and I can't engage
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: with this joke any further. I can. I draw the line. Look, look,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: in the case of today's episode, Bechtel Test Not a problem.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Let's just say that right now. No problem at all. Yes,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and so I said, let's let's get to it. Let's
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: get our incredible returning becktel cast guest into the room.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Let's get her in the mix. We simply must. She's
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: a comedian, podcaster, creator and host of a podcast for potheads,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: and do you remember her from our episode on Selena?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: It's Mama unios. Okay, everyone, thank you for having me.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It feels great to be back. It's our pleasure and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: it is also mine. We brought you back in one
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: degree heat. It's you know what, there's literally nothing else
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I would rather be doing than podcasting about this film
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: in a heat wave. It's apt. It makes sense. Yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like I'm in the movie. It's true. We
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: were joking about how, by the end of the episode,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: we will all be taking our clothes off, hopefully because
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: of the heat. Look, PR nightmare. Maybe we'LL HR get involved,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: may possibly. Am I open to it? Yes, it's so.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Today it is one hundred, or like ninety seven degrees
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: in where I'm at in l a right now. Unpleasant,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: but you know, it's not unpleasant the movie, Oh my God,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Very Fun Watch, very enjoyable. Real women have curves. Mala,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: what's your relationship, your history with this film? You know,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like my relationship with the film starts with
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: my relationship with America Ferrera, because she was like a
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Disney Channel Darling. She was in gotta kick it up,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: about the Latina dance team, and that's where, like, I
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: was born in ninety two. That's where I was first
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: introduced to America Ferrera. So when real women have curves
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: came out, it was like, Oh, this is a recognizable
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: actress who we love and she had this incredible like
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: role and I don't know if that's a movie that
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of people have seen, but in like little
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Latina circles, gotta kick it up, real women have curves
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  Speaker 1: super just iconic, like staples of our media diet. So
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: did you see real women have curves, like right when
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: it came out, you know, so two thousand two. I
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: don't remember where I was or where I saw it.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I just remember that like it was like this standout
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: movie to me because of of loop anti vettos is
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: in it, George Lopez is in it, America Frere is
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: in it and there are others throughout the film who
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: are iconic actors and actresses, but I remember thinking like
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, like this little movie is like has
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: all these recognizable faces that I've seen in all these
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: other projects, like, you know, loop ant Thi vetto's played
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: in the Selena biopick. So so for that reason it
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: was like wow, like I've seen these faces in all
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: these other projects, Disney channel, Selena, George Lopez, and now
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: they're all here in this one movie, like that's fucking sick.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: What a great cast and like really amazing performances across
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the board. And learning about the I mean, we'll get
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: into it, but like learning about the production history of
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: this movie is like very frustrating and very fascinating and
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I just like I can't wait to get into it.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Truly agreed. Jamie, what is your relationship with this movie?
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I had kind of a similar journey. I I every
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: deep calm that came out was my favorite movie, and
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: so got to kick it up was, I feel, like
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: a significant one that was like kind of in like
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the Upper Pantheon of D coms. I really, really loved it.
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  Speaker 1: That was definitely how I even though I think that
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  Speaker 1: technically real women have curves, was made before got to
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: kick it up. Definitely learned about America Ferra and like
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: fell in love with her through got to kick it up,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and I don't remember, I know I saw real women
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  Speaker 1: have curves when I was a kid. I was trying
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: to sort out in my head the sequence of events
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: of like I might have seen, like got to kick
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: it up, sisterhood of the traveling pants and then seen
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: real women have curves. To be like we have to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: get into vintage America Ferrara, but I definitely saw it
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: when I was in like either late middle school early
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: high school. Really really loved it. Um have revisited it
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a couple of times over the years, but I hadn't
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: seen it in a really long time and definitely not
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: since I had moved to L A, and so it
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: was like such a delight to like revisit. I really
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: love this movie and, yeah, getting to learn more about
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the film and kind of the the adult like I
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: feel like this is such a cool example of like
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: adapting something into a movie well, which is so often
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: done badly or sloppily or lazily or whatever, but like
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: this is just like a beautiful adaptation and I'm so
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. Yeah, Caitlyn, what's your history
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: with real women have curbs? I saw this movie in
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: high school because I came out in two thousand two.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I think I would have seen it in like two
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: thousand three or four when I was about honest character's
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  Speaker 1: age in the movie, because I think, if my memory
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: serves me correctly, my mom had heard about this movie
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: and was like, I heard it's really good. Roger Eber
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  Speaker 1: gave it three and a half stars. Let's watch it,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: let's rent it from the video store, the ultimate yard stick.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: This is a very like. I feel like I probably
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: watched this with my mom. It's a very mother like.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of mother daughter movie, I mean,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: and the relationship will get there. But and it would
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: have required someone, we had to have the DVD of
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: this film to watch it. So I feel like I
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: went to blockbuster or someone recommended it and and because
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing it in the movie theaters or
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: on TV, like I feel like it was a DVD situation. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that's my recollection as well. Gosh, like yeah, like the
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the later blockbuster years. What a beautiful what a beautiful time,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: and it's twilight. Does anyone remember the last dvd they
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: got from blockbuster? Wow, I think that's a fun question.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: My hometown was so small that we didn't even have
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: a blockbuster. We had to go to just like the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: local video rental store, which I don't even remember what
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: it was called now. It might have just been called
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: like video store, the video store. Amazing Um. Anyway. So, yeah,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: I saw it in high school as a teenager and
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I haven't watched it since then, I don't think. But
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  Speaker 1: there were two scenes in particular that are just like
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  Speaker 1: steered into my memory. You know, when you watch a
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: movie that you and then you you don't see it
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: for years, but they are just like little moments that
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  Speaker 1: you will never forget and then have just been like
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: logged into your memory bank forever. The scene where America,
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  Speaker 1: for era, is like admiring her body. She like pulls
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  Speaker 1: her robe open and it's like looking at herself in
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: the mirror, and then her mom comes in and she
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: like immediately knows that she's lost her virginity. That like
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: was completely steered into my memory. And then the climactic
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: scene at the end when all the women at the
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  Speaker 1: dress factory are taking their clothes off and comparing bodies
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: and on his mom is horrified, like what a great scene.
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  Speaker 1: I will never forget that. The other scene that I
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: did not remember her mom being like you lost her
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: virginity and being right. I was like, Oh, I'm glad.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of glad that didn't stick with me. I
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: was like how did she know that? Uh, but I
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: think it was steered into my memory because I was
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: so afraid that that would happen to me with my
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: right like you can tell like I do. I look different.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: And in that scene too, she opens with like she
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: uses such strong language with Anna, like throughout the movie.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: One of the things that really sticks out to me
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: is like the vocabulary that Garman, that Anna's mother uses
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: so like immediately in that scene she's like you tramp,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and then she tells her like not only are you fat,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: you know, very hard language that just really punctuates like
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: every aspect of the scene totally. One of the scenes
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: that stuck with me the hardest on this viewing was
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: the scene where it's like on his first day working
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  Speaker 1: at the factory and her mom is body shaming her
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: and then the second another person enters the room she's
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden nice and you're like, oh no,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I know that dynamic, like that's so that I don't
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: know how many times I've like seen that like on screen,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: like depicted in a very straightforward way of like well, yeah,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: like you know, I could be a total asshole to
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: you when no one's around, but then the second there's
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: a third party might demeanor completely changes and you're like yeah,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that's I saw that a ton growing up, like it's
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: just yeah, Anna's mom has this way of just like
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: raining on her parade like at every possible moment, like
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: even from the opening scene of them, because like that
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: scene where she's like talking bad to Anna, like Anna's
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: like admiring a dress on one of the mannequins and
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: she's just looking at it and how pretty it is,
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  Speaker 1: and her mother immediately comes in with you can't fit
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: into that, like you're way too fat. There's no way
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: there's enough fabric to cover you. Like look at your
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: chee cheese, they're so huge. And then in Wox Norma
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: and even the very first scene of the movie, Anna's
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: on her way to school, her last day of high school,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and her mom is sick in bed and asking her
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: to stay home to make breakfast for the men. You know,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: she's just like a party pooper throughout the whole film.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: That's that seemed like at the factory, like truly I
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: was like, Oh my God, she was literally just standing
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: there and the like. It turned into an attack, like
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, we will unpack that relationship soon. Yes,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: it's wild because she's so likable, she's so lovable the
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: mom even when she's saying all these horrible things, like
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: she's still kind of funny when she's saying them, and
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: like the tension between the two of them is like,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know, there's something still endearing about her even
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: as she infuriates you. You know right. I feel like
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of that is just like Lupe onto be
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: of those performance as well, like her man across the board.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Like every performance in this movie is so good and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: like layered and full of heart, and I mean the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: fact that like America Ferra was fifteen when she started
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: this movie and like the whole range of like she's
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: just so fucking talented. It is such a good movie.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I am sad I slept on it for all of
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: those years in between, like when I first saw it,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and now you're back based I'm back, baby. Um. Shall
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: I do the recap? Let's do it. Okay. So we
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: meet Anna Garcia, played by America Ferrera. She's a teenager
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: who is about to finish high school in Los Angeles.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Ever heard of it? We meet her family, her sister,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a Stella, played by Ingrid and I'm not sure how
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: to pronounce her last name, Oly You, Um, Her dad,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: role played by Jorgees Rivera Jr, her grandfather, her like Abulito,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: and then her mom, Carmen, played by Loupe Ontiveros, who
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Anna has a loving but difficult relationship with, as we've
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: hinted at and will discuss further. Carmen, we will learn,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: gets on honest case about a lot of different things
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: and has certain pretty rigid expectations for Anna and and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: for Estella. Yes, Anna heads to her last day of
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: high school. She and her family live in I think
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: east L A, boil heights, but right, because that was
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: like very based on the source material. This was adapted
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: from a play, I know we'll talk about this, but
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: played by Josafina Lopez, who writes about boil heights. A
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: ton like that is very much her background in her community.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: And Yeah, Yep, but Anna takes several city buses to
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: get to school in Beverly Hills. Her teacher, Mr Gooseman,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: played by George Lopez, asks her about her college applications,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: but she says she's not going to college because her
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: family cannot afford it. He reminds her that there are scholarships, grants,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: financial aid, but she's like, I don't know. Not that
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: she doesn't want to, it's just she knows it's going
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to be like an issue within the family. Exactly. Um
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Her family throws a little congrats on graduating high school celebration.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: We also see Anna quit her job at a fast
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: food joint, which upsets her mom, but it's a fun
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: scene to watch her quitn I loved watching her Quinn.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: That was very fun and I actually think that the
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: cashier is Lopez, the one who hands her. She is
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in the movie as a character named Veronica, but I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was like, who's Veronica? I couldn't remember exactly. That's so cool.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: All right, that's great and she killed it. She was
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: so great. And that unseen she's keeping on his check
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: in her Bra and Anna's like that's sick. Now I
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: like that seat even more. I was just like where
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the character actor was was really funny and now that
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I'm like looking at her picture again, I'm like, Oh yeah,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: that totally was her. Amazing. So on a quit her job,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: which upsets her mom, who suggests she works at the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: clothing factory that her sister, Estella runs, something that neither
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Anna nor Estella really want. But Anna needs to learn,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: needs to earn money to help the family, and Estella
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: is behind on her work orders, so she will go
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: to work at the factory. Mr Gusmand pays on a
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: visit to keep encouraging her to submit college applications, but
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: her family, and her mom especially, are against Anna going
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to college right now because she needs to work and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: help the family. The next day Anna and her sister
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and mom go to Estella's clothing factory where they assemble
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: dresses to be sold at Bloomingdale's for six dollars, even
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: though the manufacturer only pays them eighteen dollars per dress
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: to assemble each dress, and Anna points out how unfair
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: this is, how their labor is being exploited. Also, I
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: think probably at the time that would have been the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: first time I had heard that issue discussed in a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: movie like at all, for sure. Yeah, there's a an
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: interesting class discussion around this movie, for sure. And then
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: we meet the other women who work at the factory,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: such as Pancha, Norma and Rosalie. Also on his mom, Carmen,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: body shames on a several times and tends to comment
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: on most people's weight. That's just kind of a habit
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of hers. Yeah, because there's that scene where, I mean
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the scene we were just talking about, where she is
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: verbally towards her daughter. Someone like her employees start to
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: arrive and then she's nice to them, but then she
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: also turns on her employees pretty quickly and starts criticizing
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: them as well, and you're like, Oh, I guess this
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: is just her personality. So everybody gets it. Yeah, she
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: gives it to everybody. Everyone gets slice. You get a
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: polite hello and then things take a turn up. So
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: then Anna gives her filled out college applications to Mr
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Goose Band, but he points out that she's missing a
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: personal statement and that she needs to write one as
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: soon as possible. Then Anna runs into her classmate Jimmy,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: who seems to like her. He's got a little crush
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: and he gives on his phone number back at the factory,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Estella is struggling to keep up with the work order,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: especially after several of her workers unexpectedly leave to move
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: to Mexico. Then we get a scene where carman tells
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: anna a secret, that Carmen thinks she's pregnant, but Anna
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: is like mom, that's pretty unlikely, probably not what's happening.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: For All the ship that Anna has to put up with,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I love that she's always very quick to be like enough,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: like stop, no, she advocates for herself exceptionally well. Yeah,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: and I love her for it, even in situations where
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: you can tell, like I don't know or where it
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: felt to me like you could tell, she's like, I'm
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: not going to win this battle, but I have to
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: say this, like, you're not pregnant, mom. So then Anna
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: goes with Estella to speak to Mrs Glass, who is
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: the owner of the dress manufacturing company, to ask for
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: an advance so they can pay the bills and keep
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the lights running at the factory. But Mrs Glass Still
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Denies Them An advance. So then Anna goes to her
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: dad for a loan. Meanwhile, Anna goes out on a
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: date with that kid Jimmy. They have a nice time.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: He's got big that kid Jimmy Energy too. Like I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: was like, who is this Elijah would ask looking kid because, yeah,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Elijah Wood wasn't available. Slash. He's too old. That kid Jimmy.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: He was only in movies for a couple of years
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and then he who knows, he tapped out and he's done.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I liked his character, though, you know, he said some
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: things that made me go, but overall agree with that.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: He was. He seems like a sweet kid. He's he's
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: very like her first nice white boyfriend. You know, it's
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: it's an experience, it's a type. It's, Oh, I had
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a nice white boyfriends like back home, like and that's him, right, right, yeah,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: so she goes out with Jimmy. Anna then turns in
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: her personal statement to Mr Gooseman. Let me see, another
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: day at work. It's hard, it's hot. Anna admires the
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: dresses she steams at the factory and it is sad
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: to remember that they're not for her. But then Astella
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: surprises Anna with a dress that she made especially for
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Anna in a very sweet moment part and it is
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: a beautiful dress too, and I always wish there was
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: like a dress reveal moment, like an occasion for her
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: wear that dress. It was like, is there a cut scene,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: because it felt like Chekhov's dress. Exactly where is the dress?
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Where is she wearing it? Yeah, I hope she wore
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: it at like some I don't know, some New York event. Yeah,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: she goes to a mixer at Columbia. Yeah, yeah, she's like,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I just wore a gown to orientation. Is that normal?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Can you do that? Then Mr Guzman stops by to
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: let Anna know that she's been accepted to Columbia University
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: with a full scholarship, but her parents are still like
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: now is not the right time for Anna to go
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: to college, which is extremely disappointing to Anna. She then
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: goes out with Jimmy again. They have sex, her mom
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: senses that she has lost her virginity and, like we
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: were saying earlier, she calls on a tramp and a
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Puta and one of the biggest mysteries of the movie.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: How did she know? How did she know it was
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: it because America frer was like looking at you in
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the mirror being like go meet like why how did
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: she know? My guess is that she was just like
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: confidently admiring her body, body for the first time ever. Right.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: So she's like, I better, I better put an end
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: to this confidence. My daughter's feeling. That was more the
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: spiky sense going off was I think my daughter is
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: having a good feeling. It's like her favorite refrain. She's
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: always like a mother knows, a woman knows, and this
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: time she was right. She turns out to not be
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: right about being pregnant because she goes to the doctor,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: take a hundred shots and yeah, you're gonna make one eventually. True,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the reason that Carmen has missed several periods in a
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: row is a bit is because she is going through menopause,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: not because she is gregnant. So then we see another
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: day at the dress factory. It's a particularly hot day
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: and Estella won't turn on the fan because it blows
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: dust on the dresses. So Anna takes off her shirt
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and her mom freaks out, but Anna is like, what's
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the big deal? We're all women here, we all have
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the same parts. And then all of the other women
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: at the factory take their clothes off. They compare bodies,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: they compare cellulate and stretch marks and they're like we're beautiful,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: we're awesome. But Carmen is looking on in horror and
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Anna is just like, this is who we are, mom,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: real women, and Carmen storms out, while the other ladies
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: continue working and dancing and celebrating themselves and their bodies.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm interested in talking about the shooting situation around
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: that scene. There's UH, there's a lot to talk about
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: there too. Oh, I'm interested to learn more. And then, finally,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: on a heads off to Columbia University. She tries to
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: say goodbye to Carmen and to get her mom's blessing,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: but Carmen refuses, so her dad and GRANDPA take on
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a to the airport and then we see on a
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: walking down the streets of New York City. Ever heard
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: of it? And that's how the movie ends. So let's
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we will come back
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: to discuss and we're back. I feel like a little
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: bit of context for how this movie came to be
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: as a is a good place to start before we
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: get into the characters. So this, as we've sort of
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: hinted out already, this is a movie that is based
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: on a play by Josafina Lopez. Her background, as she
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: was born in Mexico and then immigrated to Los Angeles.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: A lot of her work surrounds that experience and sort
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: of reflections of her experience. Um this play is very
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: much a part of that. She started writing reading about
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: her career. I never like gone down this wikipedia hole
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: and she's like so fucking cool. She wrote her first
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: play in high school. While the rest of us were
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: doing God knows what, she was at work and she
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: wrote a play called simply Maria, or the American dream.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: She then went on to write real women have curves.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: The play was very well regarded. It was very successful.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: It's my understanding is it's pretty close to what happens
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: in the movie because she um co writes the screenplay
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: and is apparently one of my favorite characters. I just learned, Um.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: But anyways, real women have curves is her biggest hit
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: so far and people want to adapt it in one
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: way or another. Originally, and I didn't know any of
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: this before reading this kind of retrospective piece, so at
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the time it was going to be adapted for television
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: by Norman Lear, who is, first of all, a hundred
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: years old and still alive, which he got handed to him.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: But he had a reputation in Hollywood for being one
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: of the only producers who championed diverse stories for television,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: and so most diverse families you saw on television in
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: the seventies, eighties and nineties, into the two thousands, he's
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: still working, were a result of his champion he is
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a white producer who was known for championing women stories
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: and diverse stories. So he seemed to hostephina Lopez to
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: be kind of a natural fit for getting this project
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: adapted into television. However, he did. He did one day
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: a time, right like the more recent adaptation. Yeah, yeah,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and the first one was also him and he did.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to has like God, older TV is truly
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: not my strength, but let me get let me get
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: a few of his hits on the board. Sanford and
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: son was his, one day at a time. The Jefferson's
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: good times, Maud one of my favorite shows ever. Mary Hartman,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Mary Hartman like he had, he did he could. He
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: got stories on TV that no one else was trying to.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: So hosaphina Lopez was excited that he wanted to help
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: adapt it, but even with the Norman learco sign they
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: could not sell real women have curves as a TV
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: series to net works. Network said it was not relatable,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: a story enough, which we know is absolutely porship, porship,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: but very typical of Hollywood TV. Yeah, to this day.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: So Josie Lopez is discouraged. She's like one of the
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: biggest TV producers in the world. Can't get this produced.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Who's going to there's a second wind with this project
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: as a film script. So she meets a writer named
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: George Levu, which is what a what a fun name,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: but I just like to say it. George Levue. She
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: she meets Levu and, uh, they decide. They decide to Um,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: collaborate on a screenplay together, and finally they find an
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: executive who wants to fund the project. And it's a
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I have a quote here. Um. So this project was
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: funded by H E O, which I don't think I knew,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: not that it matters, I just didn't know it was
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: an HBO movie. So josephina Lopez says this. I believe
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: in in this retrospective, HBO's MoD Nadler had the power
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to say yes. It came down to a female executive
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: saying women's stories matter, stories about mothers and daughters are
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: important to me because I love my mother, and I
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: remember asking Maud after we made the film why. She
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: said yes, she said because I love my mother. It
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: took a woman in a position of power to find
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: value in the story, which is I thought, I don't know,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: that was like, that's really nice. And none of those
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: men love their mothers. They all hate their mothers. I
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: love my mother, not enough to fund a story of women.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Let's not. Let's not look look women to a point
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: very like us, the father of a daughter energy. Yes, uh.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: So the project gets funded. Uh. They Find Director Patricia Cardoso,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: who I believe is raised in Colombia. She signs on
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: for the project. Lavoo and Lopez become the hottest writing
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: team in Hollywood the movie. Oh Uh. And then another
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: huge thing that happens is George Lopez signs on as
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: a CO producer, which also was like a big hand
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: and Um, getting this movie in front of people. It
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: goes to Sundance and the rest is history. But it
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: was a huge I mean I think we see this
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of times in projects that are not centered
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: around the white experience and the white male experience. Like
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it was a huge, uphill battle to get this project made.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Even though it was already like a proven successful entity
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: through the play right, and it really has aged so well.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I was watching it this morning and, like the jokes
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: land the right feels like still very like charming and
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: fresh and it's just a fun watch and like nothing
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: in that movie is standing out in a bad, cringe
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: e way unless it's supposed to be. You know, it's
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: just like so well written and you know it's like yeah,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the work speaks for itself. It's funny and like it's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: just like, I don't know, this movie has so charming. Sorry,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: there's like a trash removal truck right outside my window
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: making loud noises. My air conditioners on because it's eight
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: million degrees. Sorry for all the noise my house and
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I smell fire. There's a lot going on. Okay, okay,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: let's go back to talking about the movie. That takes
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: place in l a around like literally this exact time
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: of year. Yeah, during a heatwave, in the summer, sweltering heat,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh. But Yeah, this movie does age so
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: well and we've talked about there's like a span of
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: time for movies and honestly it ranges for a quite
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: a long time, but you know, if you're from a
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: certain generation, especially the movies of like the late nineties,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: early two thousand's, like if that's when you're coming of
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: age and those are like the movies and the media
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: that you were like most exposed to, which is the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: case for me at least. That era was just such
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: a crapshoot for for most media, because it was like
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: just steeped in sexism, racism, homophobia, Transphobia, able is m like,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: you name it. Marginalized communities were punched down to in media.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: So it's just so refreshing to see a movie that's
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: twenty years old, from the early two thousand's to be
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: a movie that is like so, I mean feminist masterpiece.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Number one has so many strong, impactful messages, the exact
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: type of thing that like young people need to see
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: to like be influenced in the right direction, because it
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: has such strong themes and messaging about like body positivity,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: sex positivity. It showcases a complicated relationship between a mother
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and daughter, but one that's this very authentic and and
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: familiar to a lot of people. So it's just like
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: it's doing so much class commentary that there's something that
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: honestly like didn't even didn't connect for me until I
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: saw it like explicitly kind of said by the creators
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: of the movie, because I didn't have my proper two
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: thousand and two goggles on. I guess was just showing
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: boil heights as the community that it is, versus how
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: east L A and Latin people from l a were
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: shown in media at this time. That, like this movie,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: had a huge hand in, you know, offering a counter
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: to the really prejudiced, like overly simplistic narrative that was
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: being shown in everything else. Um, which is like such
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: a big part of Josafina Lopez's work. It's very wholesome,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and like, yeah, just
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: think about all the movies that you see that are
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: like set in L A, about rich white people living
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: in wealthy neighborhoods, living in huge houses. That basically just
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: ignores huge swaths of the population of L A. Yeah,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: there's a huge Latin x community that is not often
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: represented in movies here in L A and often not
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: represented favorably, if it is represented at all. Yeah, I
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: was just gonna say that real women have curves. Is
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Markedly youthful and feminine when compared to other L A
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: chicano Mexican American films, like literally the other movies that
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: we can compare it to in the same sort of
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: genre or or cultural space, is like blood and blood
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: out American me and then, you know, me Familia has
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: more of a family dynamic at the beginning. But these
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: films and then zoot suit, and these are all iconic films.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: zoot suit is a musical, you know, it's a piece
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: of theater. But all of these films also have a
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: lot of violence in them. There's a lot of trauma,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: there's prison and gangs and the ethos is very masculine
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: and it's very much like a lot of men on
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: screen and what they're going through in their lives. And
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: then you have real women have curves with like I
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: was on Hostafina Lopez on her website and reading about her,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: her like about me, which seems like she wrote it,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: which is awesome, and she's talking about how she started
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: writing this play when she was eighteen, you know, and
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: how like yeah, and how the sensibilities of an eighteen
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: year old girl have everything to do with why the
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: film is everything that it is and it's it's I
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: think it feels so fresh because it is because like
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: such a young person wrote it. And it feels very
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: like like fresh too, because it doesn't look or feel
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: like steeped in Super Trendy stuff of the time, like
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really look like a two thousand's film, I guess,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: like it's not super stylized, like their wardrobe or their
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: makeup or their hair or the music. You know, it's like, yeah,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: very wholesome and like a zoomer today who like goes
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: thrift Ng might end up pulling some of the outfits
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: so that America Ferrera is wearing in. Real women have curves,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you know, like it just feels very like, yeah, it
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: feels like young. I was thinking that so much of
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: it has come back around. Oh yeah, absolutely. I have
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: a quote from UH, Mr Levo himself, let's say his name, Um.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: But yeah, like speaking to you know, like drew attention
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: to the fact like this is based on Josaphina's experience
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: so much as told through the soft, warm, humorous tone
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: of her experience. Hopefully that's what you're seeing when you
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: see the city as different from the gangs and the
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: grittiness of other films from this time. Jo Safina. Wanted
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: to show the city as a vibrant place where women
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: can have full lives and grow, and I feel like
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: this movie pulls that off a million percent. Oh Yeah, yeah,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I want to share a quote from the Director, Um
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Patricia Patricia Cardoso, says, quote. I wanted to show a
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: part of Los Angeles we don't usually see in a
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: beautiful way, not a seedy neighborhood filled with stereotypes of
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: east l a. It was important to expand the concept
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: of beauty for women, but also for the city and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the neighborhoods. Unquote. So it's like in this vision from
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: the director, from the writer, all comes through very clearly,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: in very satisfying ways. Um had one other behind the
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: scenes thing I wanted to and I know this will will,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: this will come in and out for the rest of
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: the episode, but I was happy that this article like
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: as I was so curious of like the sequence of
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: America Ferrera Lore So. I guess that she had already
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: shot got to kick it up before she shot. Real
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: women have curves and I just like, I love this story.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: It was like when she got her check from got
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: to kick it up, she got a car and wanted
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: to go to drama camp and like those are that's
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: what she used her money for. As like she's so great,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: they wanted her to audition for this movie. She was like, well,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to drama camp, so if you're still casting
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: when I'm done at drama camp, like hit me up,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: basically and then and like listening to her talk about
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: that in her thirties and she was like that was
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: a bold move for a seventeen year old to do,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: but uh, fortunately, they still wanted me to be in
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: the movie. So I live America fure so much. I
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: was curious about like what scenes in this retrospective they
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: would talk about, and there was a fair amount of
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: discussion around, I feel like the scene that people remember
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: best from this movie when they're in the factory at
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: the end and they take their clothes off and they
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: talk about their bodies and it's like this really celebratory,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: cool moment Um. So I guess America Farre was I
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: said she was fifteen. I was wrong. She was seventeen
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: when this movie was being shot, but still still, she
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: was still a kid and I guess that on the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: day that this was being shot, she decided that she
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: didn't want to take her pants off. So this was
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: sort of this was hashed by a few people, I mean,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and it seems like, you know, fifteen years later she's fine,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: everyone's relationship is fine. But at the time, so the
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: scene had been blocked, they were ready to shoot it.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I think prior to the scene being shot, America Frero said, okay,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: that's okay, I'll do that. But I just wanted to
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: share a few quotes from her because kids acting is
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: like such a such a Myer, and I she was
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable during that scene. So she says. I was seventeen
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: years old and it was only my second job. I
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: never had to take off my clothes in front of
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: a crew, most of them men. I'm sure it was
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: incredibly intimidated by that. I remember wearing a robe between
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: takes and as the day went on it was too
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: much of a hassle to get the robe on and off,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: so I was like whatever, I'll stand here without the rope.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: But basically the crew tells this story about how she
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: decided she wasn't comfortable taking her pants off and then
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I believe the director Um faked getting a phone call
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: from an HBO executive. She was like you know well,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you know this is a really important part of the script.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: We need you to do this, and America fare was like,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable with that, I don't want to do
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: it anymore. And she's like, well, let me call HBO.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: The director goes outside fakes a call. So this is
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: from George Lavu is recapping this. Okay. So, no, sorry,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: this is George lavue making the call. Lavu canceled out. Okay,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: George Levu harshed her in his narrative. I don't like
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: him anymore. Yeah, not, it's always. It's always Lavu, though,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: isn't it? So lavo says I made an excuse. I said,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: let me call Colin Calendar, who was the head of
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Hbo Films at the time. I said, let me see
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: what he wants. So I took my phone outside and
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I pretended to call Colin. I came back and said
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Colin said you have to do it, and she said okay,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: we'll do it. I didn't know what we were going
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: to do. I couldn't imagine the movie without that scene.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Hopefully they're happy it happened that way. Then Patricia Cardoso
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: jumps on this train and says America was mad at
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: me the whole day. It took two days to shoot
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: that scene and she was so mad she wouldn't even
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: look me in the eyes. The next day she came
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: running to me and said, you know, now I understand
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: why it was important for the character to take off
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: her pants. Can we please shoot the scene again? I
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: said no, you did it perfectly. America Ferrera now in
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: her thirties. This is kind of put a pin on
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: this discussion that I was like, I'm mad at them personally.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: But she says, I clearly see how this film empowered
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: others to feel seen, liberated and beautiful, but I was
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: a child playing everything, but a typical child. More than
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: saying Oh, that's my body, people watched it and said, Oh, yes,
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: that's how my mom responds to my body, that's how
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: my culture responds to my body, that's how the world
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: responds to my body. For me, being a young woman
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: going through my own journey with my body, having seen
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: and talked, having it seen and talked about and projected
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: upon by people, watching this movie, if anything, sort of
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: stunned me for a while, because that in and of
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: itself sent a strong message about how I should feel
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: about my body and it was a much longer journey
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: for me to get to a place where I felt
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: empowered about my body the way that film helped others feel. So,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I mean it's levels, for sure. It's complex. I mean personally,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like okay. Production Wise, I don't think that that
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: was a very that was a dishonest and irresponsible way
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to handle that, especially with someone who's an underage, who's
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: a miner, right, right. I mean she's seventeen in this situation,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and like that was the one production thing that I
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: learned that didn't sit super well because it's like yeah,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: this like she's an incredible performer, she's, but it's I mean,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: a teenager talking about their body on screen is so
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine how excruciatingly difficult that must have been.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: And so to have like pressure put on top of
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: her like you have to do this, like that sucks.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: It's it's like this period of your life where, I
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: R L teenagers are still wearing t shirts in the
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: swimming pool and like not showing their bodies to anybody,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: like if they feel uncomfortable. And I think what's interesting
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: too is like America Frera like in that quote. Nowhere
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: is she saying that she didn't like her body or
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: she felt fat or she felt not proud of her
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: body or uncomfortable in her body. You know what I mean?
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: It's like there's all these projections and it has so
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: much to do with like, of course, it's literally the
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: plot and it's the movie and it's the character and
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: it's the storyline, so that's all baked in there. Like
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: she's cast in this role because the main character, Anna
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: is a Godrida, she's Chubby, so she's got to look
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: the part, you know. And then I think about the
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: fact that like all the levels right, because that script
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: was written by somebody, Josafina, who probably experienced this exact
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: same type of body shaming that goes on in our families.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: And then those actresses, being Latina's, probably have all experienced
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: something similar in their own lives and I don't know
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: that in their particular families or lives that just because
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: we have this awareness in the script and in the
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: movie that, you know, everybody is beautiful and that fat
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: is beautiful, that those actresses, when they go home their families,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: are not necessarily board like that script is probably still there.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: You know, like that is still happening in the outside world,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's just I just think about the
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: compounded levels of it all in a in a movie
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: like this, right. Yeah, and you hear about stories where,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: like a scene like this is in the script and
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: it calls for nudity, partial nudity, you know, people wearing underwear.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't feel like inappropriate or exploitative, but I also
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: can totally understand why a seventeen year old actor, when
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: the moment comes to take your clothes off in front
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: of two people, no matter how safe you are, it's
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: like that you can feel amazing about your body and
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: be uncomfortable with that. Like that's so that's what I
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: was gonna say. You hear stories about like some productions
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: being like, okay, I know this is going to be
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: a potentially very uncomfortable scene for the actors, so we're
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: going to take a bunch of precautions to make it
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: as comfortable as possible, and that ranges from like hiring Choreo,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: if it's like a sex scene, like a sex choreographer
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: will basically be hired, or like there will be like
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: social workers or other kind of like mental health professionals
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: on set or like nearby to consult with if the
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: actors need like to consult with somebody or talk to someone.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: There will be a reduced crew, where like normally the
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: crew might be two hundred people, but on a shoot
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: day like that you scale it way back. I've heard
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: of Um like let's say the DP is a man,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: but they will like temporarily hire a woman. I mean
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: they could have just hired a woman anyway, but they
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: they did say that, like it wasn't actually two hundred
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: people it was. That was like I think America Frere
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: was like, Um, hyper hyper what is hyperbole? Hyperbolic? Yeah,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: I went to school, I swear uh so per Levu Um.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: There were like dividers up so that not every member
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: of the crew had access to the shooting of this scene.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: So I don't have the number count, but but it
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: was like America decided she didn't want to take off
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: her pants in front of the crew and I guess
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: she told her director that. She was like, Oh, I
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: don't think that the character would actually do that or
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: all this stuff, and it just I mean also, I
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: don't envy the director's position and that situation either, because
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: that's a really true especially on a on a like
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: a lower budget movie. That's a really, really difficult position
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: to be put in, for sure, but it could have
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: been handled better. She's a kid. I wonder too, that scene.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: I wish that I could see it like how it
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: was staged for the theater and for the stage, because
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: I can imagine that, you know, obviously on camera you
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: see a certain you can only see so much and
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: things are kind of far away, you know, and I
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: feel like on the stage and in the theater you're
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: much up close and personal, and I can just imagine
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: that the row of like the factory scenes and a
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: row of sewing machines and the women's sewing and the
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: sounds and the visual is probably very striking and dynamic
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: on stage and I'm sure that when it gets to
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: that part about them taking off their clothes and showing
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: off their stretch marks and their cellulite, that that's very
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: impactful on stage and very dynamic, you know, in a
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: different way than in the movie. And like I wonder
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: how it was handled even like for the stage and
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: the taking off the clothes and the lead actress and
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: and those pieces, because it's a scene that everybody loves.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: It's like a standout scene for everyone. I would love
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: to see a stage production of this. I also didn't
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: know that, I guess Hostephena Lopez opened a theater in
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: boil heights. Yes, that's Gasa zero zero one. I want
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, yeah, back in two thousand's on first
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: street she has a restaurant, also called Gasa Fina, on
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: First Street in Mariachi Plaza, and then so so and
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Mariachi Plaza is featured in the movie throughout like you
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: see it, and Anna goes on her dates in Mariachi
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Plaza and she walks through Mariachi Plaza to catch for
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: bus to high school. So right there on first she
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: has her restaurant, Gasa Mama Casa Gasa, and then the
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: theater down the street. That's so cool. Yeah, so that
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: was all. That was all the behind the scenes stuff
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I had. Um. Well, yeah, so let's let's take a
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back and discuss the story,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: the movie, the characters, et Cetera, and we're back. Okay,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: let's get into talking about the the actual what happens
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: in the movie. I really liked Um. I know, I
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: feel like every time we see public transportation in a movie,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I get so excited. But I really like I feel
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: like we've covered five trillion movies where it's like New
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: York is end of the character rre or ray or ran,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: but this movie, I think like l a is on
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: is like really strutting its stuff in this one. It
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: is so beautiful and so like well done, and I
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: love that you sort of navigate the city with public
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: transit and I just really liked it. Yes, heart agree.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: That is again like something you don't see when you want,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: except for the iconic film speed. Have happened that the
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: L A metroly not. But UH yeah, I mean there's
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: there's so much this movie is doing as far as
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: representation goes, as far as just like again, powerful messaging.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a predominantly Latin x cast Um. I
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: love that Spanish is spoken frequently among the characters, because
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of Hollywood executives would cite
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: that is a thing like that will make this movie
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: too inaccessible for a mainstream audience. But it's funny too,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: because you already had so many like, okay, like we
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: had tons of star wars movies already at this time
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: and they're speaking all kinds of different made up alien languages,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: like in those films. But Spanish is too much, that
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: is too inaccessible right, like, oh no, a language that
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: most people in the US speak to some degree. Can't
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: have that. We like, not that. Meanwhile, elvish is making
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: a huge comeback at this same time, alright, because Lord
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: of the Rings Two towers comes out the same year.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: There you go. I feel like the movie sometimes I
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: feel like a movie, like real women have curves, especially
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: at this time. is almost like a crossover situation, even
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: though it's Mexican Americans, like in L A, like her
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: character ostensibly is like, you know, first or second generation
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: like Mexican American. And part of why I love the
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: bus conversation and the travel conversation is because there's this
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: crossover that happens in L A. It's this east side
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: West side crossover, and you see them. She's crossing the
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: bridge via bus and via her dad's pickup truck to
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: go from her east side neighborhood passed through downtown to
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: work or to end up in Beverly Hills on the
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: West Side for school or for the dad's job, and
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: I think that's almost like the story of the movie.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: It's like born here on the east side, she she
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: was taking meetings and she was on the west side Hostafina.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot trying to get this movie made
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: and it's like a journey that I think like if
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: you're in L A local like we joke about this,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: me and my co hosts, because we live. I live
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: sort of in the mid city area, which is a
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: little more Um West, but it's close to downtown and
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: the USA lives sort of southeast and our community is
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: sort of here, west of Librea and beyond, and we
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: hear so many people, like transplant saying, oh l a like,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I never go east of Librea, anything east of Libraa
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: is the east side. Downtown is the east side, silver
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: like is the east side. There's this disconnect in in
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: what L A is. We've I've we've heard this so
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: many times. So anytime that we have to go to
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: the west side and leave our little enclaves, it's a thing,
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: it's a journey. It's Oh we're going to the west side,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: you know. So I feel like Safina was going to
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: the west side and in this movie they traveled to
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: the West side it's like Iv. Yeah, for for listeners
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: who do not understand truly the grand trek that Anna
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: was taking to get to school every day, it's I
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: was I was just trying to do the math in
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: my head. I'm like that's at least an hour and
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: a half if the bus comes on time, because she's
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: like transfers. She like goes from like boil heights to
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Hollywood and vine from Hollywood and Vine Hills, like she's
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: taking transfers, which is a yeah, that's the bus is here.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Look pro but we could use some more routes. Could
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: use some more routes, use some more frequency, because sometimes
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: you're like why am I doing a Yo Yo act
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: to get somewhere that is objectively three miles from where
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting? Unclear, look right, but, but, but I loved
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: that the movie took that time to show you that
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: journey because it feels like it effortlessly communicates the class
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: struggle that Anna is dealing with without having to like
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: bop you over the head with it. It's just like
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: an effortless part of the story. I love how it
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: you're just told visually and also like when you see
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: that kid Jimmy come to the east side and like,
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: clearly it sounds like he's like one of the people
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: you're talking about where it's it's he's like what? What?
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Like there's a part where he's like because she knows
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: him from school and he goes to school in Beverly Hills,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: so you can presume that he probably lives in Beverly
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Hills as well, like shares little brother or something. Yes,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: he's Elijah Wood's son. Um, he's he's of the Wood family,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: for sure. Yes, summering with the wood family. He's like,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: I wanted to go to Europe with you. Things are
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: just too easy here, you know, you're handed everything, you're
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: handed school, you're handed a car. That's why I went
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: to teach. And it's like, okay, you're saying this to Anna,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: who comes from a working class, blue collar family where
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: most of her family works in a clothing factory where
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: their labor is for sure being exploited because they're assembling
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: dresses for eighteen dollars to be assauled at the Bloomingdale's
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: that his family probably shops at. Like and Anna takes
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: the bus. She's like, what are you talking about? I
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: take the bus. And he's like we have buses here.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Like what I love about that scene is like Anna
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: doesn't say any of that. You know, she just like
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: listens to him and she's like okay, sure, Jimmy. You know,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: she doesn't have to. It's so fascinating to me she doesn't.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: She doesn't feel compelled to tell him he's wrong or
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: that he has it easy or that her life is
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: so hard. or well, here's what she's she's on the bus,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: she doesn't have a car. It's not easy for her,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: and I always find those choices really fascinating of like
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: how much Anna is like sharing with him or not.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: You know, Um, because I think that in in and
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: that sex scene that they have where he's like I'll
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: write you, I'll call you, and she's very kind of
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: cold and says no, like for what she knows, like
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: this guy is for for the now, but this is
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: not he's not my future and he doesn't need to
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: know all of me, and I think that's so interesting. Yeah,
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: and that's just like that's just like fe so real
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: to and just it just shows how she is a
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: very like multidimensional, complex character where, you know, she has
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: no qualms about challenging her mom challenging her sister, you know,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: challenging Mrs Glass, the owner of the clothing manufacturer, like,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: but she isn't quite so challenging to some of the
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: things that Jimmy says, because he says something like uh,
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: and you know, we'll talk all about like the body
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: and fat shaming that she experiences, but he says something
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: like you're not fat, you're beautiful, as if those two
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: things are mutually exclusive. Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy, and she
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't challenge that. But it's just a much more different
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: dynamic that she has with this kid she's like rich
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: white kid she's just getting to know, versus her mom,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: who she's lived her entire life with. And that just felt,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: like said, you know, we all kind of switch our
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: behavior and you know, based on who we're interacting with,
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: and and so that just felt very familiar relatable. Yeah,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: it's just such a cool character where every time, I
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: don't know, like you can see, even in that scene
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: with Jimmy, I really like when she was like we're
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: not gonna have anything to talk about in three months,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: like don't bother, like that was so cool. And then
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: but in the scene right after you do see that
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: like there is some insecurity attached to her setting that
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: boundary in that way where she's like, well, you're gonna
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: have some like skinny white girlfriend in a couple of
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: months anyway. So, like, why would I the subject feeling
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: like why would I emotionally invest in a Jimmy of
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: the world? And here's my question. Jimmy says that he's
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: got into Teachers College, which leads me to believe he's
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: enrolling at Columbia University. She gets into Columbia University, she
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: ends up in New York. Is there a real women
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: have curves, sequel, where she wears the red dress in
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: New York and they reunite somehow? Is that why they're
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: loose ends? Well, this is becoming a what? Oh my gosh,
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: it's becoming a to all the boys I love before
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: style saga. Yes, the whole thing. I have to wonder.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: It's not too late? Yes, it's twenty years later, but
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm still waiting for that red dress payoff,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest. The other thing that I thought was interesting,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: as it relates to the kind of class commentary, is
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Mrs Glass. So again, she's the owner of the dress
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: manufacturing company that Estella is a contractor of, and there's
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: that scene where stella she's like first trying to write
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: an email to her, and Anna is like, you gotta
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: go down and talk to her. You're never going to
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: get anywhere with an email. So Anna goes with her,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: you know, ends up like advocating pretty hard for more
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: than Estella camp, but it's also like, you know, more
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: is at stake for Estella, so you don't you know,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: you get why she's a bit intimidated by Mrs Glass Um,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: but there's that moment where Mrs Glass is like, you know,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: I believe a woman like me should help a woman
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: like you, but I can only help you so much,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and basically tells her she has to pick herself up
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: by her bootstraps because she, despite also being like a
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Latina woman who, you know, like saw something in Ostella
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: and like that's why she wanted to help her out,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: but she's also a capitalist who is for sure exploiting
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Estella's labor. You hate to see it, but that ship
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: also does happen. It does happen. Yeah, I find the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Mrs Glass character so fascinating because that character can be
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: open to so many interpretations, like we can create so
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: many storylines behind her life. Is this like an Argentinean
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Latin out with the last named glass, like is she
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: like a third gen like Mexican American who like went
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: to like Harvard Business School? Like, who is this woman
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: and how did why is she the way that she is,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: you know, and I love the tension there too with
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: like you have Anna, who like went to Beverly Hills
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: High School and his college bound and is very kind
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: of Um. She feels like she knows a lot of
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: things right, and I feel like there's a lot of
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: like power trips in this movie about what we know
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: and what we don't know. So I think Anna feels
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: like among her family she knows more things than like
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: her mom, and her mom feels like, well, a woman
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: knows and a mother knows, and that's her favorite saying,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: you know, because she's a mom, so she knows and
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: she's a married woman, so she knows. And Anna went
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: to Beverly Hills high so she knows, you know. And
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: so Anna thinks, Anna thinks that she's about to help
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: her sister out and like negotiate with this business lady.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: But Anna is weighing over her head and this lady
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: is way out of her league and Anna is actually
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: doing more harm than good and she thinks she's helping,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: you know. And so it's like maybe there's a reason
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Estella has been kind of moving the way she's been moving,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: because maybe Estella knows something that Anna doesn't know, and
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: I love all of that. That kind of merry go round.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think in my I think I got I
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: was so caught up in the Anna of it all
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: in my earlier viewings, because it's like that is especially
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: if you're like a teen girl. You're plugging yourself into Anna,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: like end of story. I didn't think as much as
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I probably should have about Estella's character and I'm prepping
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: for this episode I was like kind of blown away
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: by how much there is in Estella's character, even though, like,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's a main character, but she doesn't like
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: actually speak that much. She doesn't take a ton of
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: like action, action or because it's so honest story and
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: the relationship between Anna and her mother is so focused on.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: But I really love Estella and I don't think I
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: like had the tools to understand what she was up
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: against when I first saw this movie because Anna is
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: so headstrong and like she's back on everything and in
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: a way that it's like really Cathartic and cool to see.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: And and I think in my mind at the time
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, why doesn't Estella stand up for herself
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: more and like not understanding there the dynamic there where,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: even watching like how it's like it's clear that ten
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: years prior Estella was treated the way Anna is being
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: treated now by her mother, which is, I feel, like
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: represented in that scene where their mom basically says, like well,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: it's too late for Estella. I'm going to focus on Anna,
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: and it seems like Estella has put so much energy
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: and and like her life into pleasing her mom and
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: doing what she thinks is the right thing and trying
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: to like meet the bar that their mom is setting
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: that no one can ever actually reach, and then, ten
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: years later, be blamed for it and she's still not
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: the mom's favorite right and then like ten years later
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: she's still catching ship for it and her mom has
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: given up on her for no reason, even though Estella
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: seems like she like is I mean, I don't know
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: enough about how a textile factory is run to say
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: this for sure, but it seems like Estella is kind
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: of like doing the bulk of the day today Um stuff.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: She's handling all the rent issues and the and the
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: checks and like a lot of the high level stuff,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: but is like not appreciated by the powers that be, certainly,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: but also doesn't seem it seems like she's really undervalued
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: by her own mom and just like seeing how that
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: because that does, I don't know, like being Estella's age
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: and not Anna's. Now you're like that does wear on you.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: And of course there's just like Anna has the energy
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: to fight every battle and it's like, but that changes
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: over time and I just love Estella and with the
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: Stellash I feel like a Stella's underrated too, because if
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: I knew somebody who had their own dress manufacturing business
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: and was selling gowns to blooming als, like was filling
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: orders constantly, that's a big fucking deal, like that's an
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: accomplished seamstress designer, like businesswoman, like that's nothing to sneeze at.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: She's being exploited. It is literally a sweatshop setting, but
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: it's impressive when we really break it down and think
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: about what it's what she's doing there, and I don't
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: think that annesty is that. It's literally Phantom threading, like
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: it's also it's like further complicated by so you can
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: kind of imagine that Stella took up this business because
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: that's what her mom did. Like Carmen says that she
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: has been sewing for thirty eight years and she started
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: when she was like thirteen. So, like you have, Stella
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: like taking in her mom, you know, like taking after
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: her unless expression take something footsteps, following, following others footsteps.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: I was like, why can't I put this sentence to age?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: It's so she's following in her mom's footsteps, possibly to
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: impress her mom, possibly because that's the skill her mom
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: taught her. You know, there's could be any number of
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: of reasons. and Um I was able to open up
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: her own factory, Um, which I think maybe it seems
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: to be implied that like that's something that Carmen didn't
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: have the opportunity or the money that you need to
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: start your own business, but it's something that Estella was
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: able to do, and so she started her own business
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: and now she employs her mom, so she's her mom's
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: boss and then her mom mentions how, from decades of sewing,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: she's she's become arthritic, she can't see very well and
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: she's like not actually able to work very well because,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: like this hard labor has has really worn on her
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: over the years. But she's ashamed by that and is
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: not really communicating that too love. But she tells it
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: to Anna and it's just like there's like so many
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: such an interesting and complicated family dynamic. Yeah, there's a
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: lot of layers and it's like you you have this
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: situation where, like the mother and the sister have dignity
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: in their work, even though it's not ideal, because that
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: is such a step. Like she's a business owner, she
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: is doing deals with blooming Dale's and they're they have
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: this team, they're employing people. Right. There's this scene where
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Carmen and Anna's father they're talking to each other and
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: the father is saying she can learn a lot at Columbia,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: like she's accepted, she got a scholarship, she can go
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: get educated, and her mother says, I can educate her,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: I can teach her how to sew, I can teach
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: her how to take care of children, I can teach
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: her how to keep a house she doesn't do laundry.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: She's my greatest disappointment, you know, she doesn't listen to me.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's interesting because I think there's a
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: piece there where like the mom and the sister are like,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: we like our lives and we are doing work and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: we are supporting ourselves and this is a dignified life
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: that's also worth living, you know. And so there's this
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: like divide there where she's very young and and she's
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: pushing back on it and she's Pooh pooing it, but
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: it's what's allowed also allowed her to go to Beverly
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: Hills High School, you know, and she's had that familial support.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: So there's that push and pull there. Were like in
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: their heart of hearts, they want more for her, but
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: they know that, like this is their world and for
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: her to step out of it, what does that mean
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: about their world and them and all of that? I
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: mean it's like and and I get like that whole
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: message is conveyed in like a single scene which is wild,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: like the scene when Mr Guzman comes back to the house,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: and I did I know that this is like she's
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: wrong for this, but it did always make me laugh
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: every time. Um, carbon saw Mr Guzman coming and is
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: like who is that? Let's get him out of here,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: like slamming the door, and George Lopez's face. Man, yeah, man,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: you're like that's that's her teacher. But but yeah, like
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: that that whole class tension of like, and I feel
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: like you see it a little bit in Estella's character
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: as well, where it's it's not like Mr Guzman is
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: trying to say like one thing is more valuable than
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: the other, but I think like his perspective is like, well,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: you sent her to this like Bougie high school. Do
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: you want her to have access to what the Bougie
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: high school was supposed to have gotten her access to?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: And then, from where Carmen and Ostella are sitting and
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: from where the whole family sitting, it makes total sense
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: to be like well, why are you telling us that
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: the life that we have isn't enough? Like it feels
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: like Anna is the only person in the room at
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: any given time who understands that Um and like understands
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: both sides of it, and we don't. I guess we
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: don't know enough about Mr Kos months background. Maybe he
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: does understand this tension and his power is just kind
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: of very limited in this situation, because you're totally right, Mala,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: like it's so wild the way that Estella is treated
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: and like the circumstances she has to work under, because
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: she's also I liked that you have that details. She's
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: a brilliant designer and like I hope that you know
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: in the inevitable, uh, you know, real women have curves.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: To return of the red dress. Um, she has extremely
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: curvy movie. Yeah, she has like her own like fashion
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: house or like something like that, where, like she's so talented,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: but it's like it's got a I g boutique right
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: exactly excited, is like doing expensive custom red carpet looks
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: for America, Ferraro question mark. Um, but and then the
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: movie explodes. Um, but, but I I that it was interesting.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: How like there's those moments with a Stella, the moments
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: I liked most between Anna and Ostella, or when Estella,
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: I think, would sometimes internalize how various systems were failing
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: her and her business as individual failures, which is, you know,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: how the systems want you to feel. And I feel
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: like you know, even though the Mrs Glass thing did
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: not pan out and was that was kind of naive
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: on on his part to think you could just march
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: in and change a girl boss's mind. Um. But, like Estella,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: it seemed like I had internalized a lot of shame
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: about it and like she wasn't able to talk to
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: people about it. And you would imagine if she went
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: to Carmen about it, Carmen would give her shit about
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: it because that is very inherent to how Carmen treats
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: her daughters. And just like watching Estella, this like brilliant
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: business owner who should be, you know, in Milan or
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: what I or like having to internalize this bullshit is
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: it's I don't know, it's like pretty subtle in the
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: way that it's like telegraphed in the movie, but I
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: just I don't know, it just felt like this whole
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: other element to what's going on in her life that
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't take a lot of note on because I
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: was America for he built and just didn't understand the
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: world as well. And yet there's still so much to
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: love about on this character to where like so we've
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: been kind of dancing around the mother daughter relationship throughout
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: the entire discussion. So so let's just get into it.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: It's a complicated relationship. It's clear that Carmen very much
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: loves and cares for her daughter and is coming from
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: a place where she thinks what she's doing, what she's saying,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: is what's best for her daughter. She's not really doing
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: anything out of like spite or malice. It's just this
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: is what she knows and she's trying to pat sit
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: along to her daughter and it's what she thinks is
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: best for Anna. This often manifests as carmen policing Anna's
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: body in two pretty major ways. One is her size
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: and the other is her sexuality, and this is obviously
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: informed by Karmen's religious beliefs and her kind of cultural like.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: You know, yes, she is reinforcing a lot of patriarchal
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: standards that were pretty par for the course for her
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: generation her culture. Anna is from a younger, more progressive generation.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: She grew up in a different country and culture from
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: her parents and this has kind of empowered her to
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: push back against like her mom's ideology, because we constantly
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: see that kind of tug of war of Carmen either
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: fat shaming or Slat Shaming Anna and then an a
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: challenging it. So again we have like harmon constantly making
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: comments about on a weight her size. She says things
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: like you know, you would look beautiful if you lost weight,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: and constant comments about her body. And then you have
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: Anna again, constantly challenging this and pushing back and saying
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: things like well, I happen to like myself and yeah,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: maybe I do want to lose weight, but part of
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: me doesn't, because my weight says to everybody fuck you,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: and she says, you know, how dare anybody try to
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: tell me what I should look like or what I
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: should be when there's so much more to me than
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: just my weight. And that's such a wonderful thing to
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: be in a movie that is targeted to. I mean
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: everyone should watch this movie, but it's like targeted to
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: probably a younger audience. Um, you know, teens, tweens. So
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: you have like this young character who's like advocating for
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: herself and pushing back against this harmful ideology of fat
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: shaming and body I've been watching dance moms and Abby
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: Lee Miller has sort of helped me to better understand
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: Carmen's character. Because, yes, because Abby Lee is known for
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: her harsh words and teaching tactics with her students, but
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: her students also win, like they sweep right, and so
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: Abbe Lee. One of her competitions was like listen, I
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: tell you the harsh truth and rehearsal, because I don't
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: want to put you on a stage and parents and
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: other coaches are saying nasty things about your technique and
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: your unppointed feet in the audience and you're getting dinged.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: I'm saying it so you fix it and other people
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: are not saying it and humiliating you. And I feel
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: like there are some older women, and I know for
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: a fact Latina mothers, because my mother kind of is
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: of this sort of mindset sometimes, like I'm your mother
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: and if I don't tell you, who's going to tell you?
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: and I feel like Carmen has this sort of very
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: like she likes to tell cautionary tales, like if you
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: don't listen to your mother, this is what's going to
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: happen to you. I'm telling you because I'm your mother.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Like there's that one scene where they're watching that Novella,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: and I love this title, Los B Mass, and the
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: girl like it, doesn't listen to her mom and gets
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: decapitated in the process trying to run off with some
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: guy and Karmen is like that's that's what happens. That's
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: what happens when you don't listen to your mother. A
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: mother knows the right man for her daughter, you know.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: So it's like, for me, that's who karmen is. People
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: like poor Anna's trying to write her college essay at
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: the table. She's like stop. The decapitation comes up like
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: mid essay writing. Yeah, oh, that's perfect. And then there's
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: also this Um, this undercurrent throughout the movie that these
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: women in the factory are making dresses that they can't
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: fit into because glamorous clothing is often not manufactured for
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: larger bodies. Because Have Puncha saying talking about address that
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: Estella is designing, and she says something like yeah, I
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: would definitely wear that if it would fit me parentheses.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't. Or like you, I couldn't probably find a
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: dress that would fit me like this. But that's why
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: in real women have curves to a Stella is the
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: most famous inclusive designer in the entire worldly. She's stiling Lizzo. Yes, yeah,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: the script rights itself. Honestly, yeah, we don't. We don't
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: need Lavoo. This time to get him out of there. Yeah,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: La Boo more like it, more like lapoo. And then
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: that's really sweet scene where you see a stella giving
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: the dress that she made for Anna and she says
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: like I cut this specifically for your body and says
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: like pretty dresses aren't just for skinny girls, and it's
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: just such a beautiful little like button on that through
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: line of the movie. The dresses are such a double,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: a triple whammy, because it's like it costs these women
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: money to make these dresses. Practically like not only can
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: they not fit in the dresses they're making, but they
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: can't afford the dresses they're making because they cost six
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars. And the constant throughout the film is I
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: don't think we ever see the women really get paid,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: you know, until the very end they reimburse the dad
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: because of the loan. The landlord is coming because she's
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: laid on rent. Like the dress is actually even just
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: to work is like costing them and it's wild to see.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: It made me so sad, like and it made me
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: I felt like a moment of like frustration with Estella.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: I was like, but then it's like, but she's being
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: put into an impossible position. It's just and and I
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: feel like it's the movie, I guess, in that moment
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: did kind of telegraph clearly why Estella feel like this
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: is all her fault, because she's the one that has
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: to tell her employees, I can't pay you, even though
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: you're doing really, really hard work, like all the time,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: and I won't turn a fan on because of dust,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: like it's of course she feels terrible, but it's like,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't know that this viewing I was
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: Estella pilled this one Um. And the thing about the
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: movie too, is like that. There's so much, so many questions,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: because Anna goes off to New York, she's treating her stuff,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: but remember, like Estella stayed behind because she had to
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: go to the factory. Like the factory continues. The dead
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: is still there, like the turnover. That's all still, that's
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: still going on while Anna is in New York. Right
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: at least Estella gets her own bedroom now, because they
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: were sharing a bedroom. That she deserves. She deserves. Yeah,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: she doesn't. I mean she serves her own place. We
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: could like I wanted to get back to mom a
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: little bit as well, because I really do think it's
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: like it's such a tricky role. I feel like it
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: is such a testament to loupe onto veros for making
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: Carmen a lovable character and like, because I feel like
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: on paper it's tough. The things she says to her
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: daughters can be so cutting and awful, and the fact
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: that she is able to get across like I do
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: believe that she loves her daughters, but there's all these
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: layers of and I know that there's there's so many Oh,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: there's another fire Um. Oh, I know there's so many
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: layers of what Carmen is kind of projecting onto her daughters.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of cultural values that she grew up with.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: It's a generational value, it's uh, it's internalized shame being
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: projected back onto her kids, and there was an element
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: of it, the closest I could get to like relating
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: to outside like just being a body shamed by female relatives,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: which happened in my family brutally and all the time.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: But it almost felt like there is like this part
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: of Carmen that wants her daughters to suffer in the
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: same exact ways she did and like to not suffer
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: in though it almost reminds me of like whence like
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: with this whole student loan forgiveness debate, where people are like, well,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: I had to be an extreme debt for twenty years,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: so my kids should too, and it's like no, that
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't I don't know what, but but on a human
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: level you can understand how. You know she, I mean Carmen,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: has had to deal with ship her entire life and
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: she was raised a very particular way and you understand
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: how she got to where she is in the way
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: she views the world and also be like, but you
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: have to let your daughters. You know, you've got to
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: want more for your kids. You've got to want them
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: to be able to go their own way, and it's
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: such a difficult relationship to see play out because you you,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You feel so much for everybody, but
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: sometimes you just want to be like Carmen. Come on, yeah,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: there's there's a piece to where it's like Carmen, she
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: is harsh and she can be mean. There's this really
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: interesting layer there, though, where it's like sometimes, like Mexican
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: families do speak that way to each other and it
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: can come off as harsh and mean, but it's not
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: unbelievable and it's not unrealistic. And I feel like sometimes
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: like Oh, it's almost like you actually can't body shame
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: like a Latina, because our families have already been doing
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: it for years, like we've been hearing this stuff for
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: our lives, like people speak about our bodies in very
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: public and specific terms, like your body part isn't just
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: the body part. It becomes like a stand in for
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: your whole identity, like we have words just to refer
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: to you in relation to a body part. Like if
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: you have a big butt, you don't just have a
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: big butt, you are a Nalgona, like that can be
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: your nickname. Like if you have big cheat cheese, you
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: can be a Cheechon, like that's your nickname, that's your title.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: You Know Gorrita, she calls her throughout. This is and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: I love the caption, the translation, because she goes, this
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: is my Gorta right here, and it's this is my
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: fatty right here, right my butterball, butter ball also in
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: the captions. But these are actual terms that people actually
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: call girls and women, like I R L and so
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: is it uncomfortable? Yeah. Are they sometimes terms of endearment? Yeah,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: are they sometimes kind of cute. See Names. Yeah, but
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: can they also be used like to cut? Also? Yes.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: So there's also like that sort of like very subtle
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: like line that I love. That whole Stefin know plays
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: with with her writing. Yeah, and it works so well.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: And then again, the other thing that common tends to
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: do with on a mostly well part. So it's like
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: Carmen has this idea that, you know, a woman has
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: to save herself, quote unquote, till marriage. She can't have
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: sex until she's married, and it's also her duty to
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: get married and start raising a family and to take
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: care of that family and to take care of her husband.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: And she wants Anna to get married as soon as possible.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: And you know, she has that little the figurine of
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: of San. I forget which sat anth St Anthony. So
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: you know she's holding out. She's like and she's like
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: I've I've lost hope that Estella will get married. But now,
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: so now I have to really focus on this future
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: for Anna. So that's kind of where she's coming from
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: as far as like Anna's like sexuality and like her
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: expectations of what Anna is going to do with like
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: starting a family and that kind of stuff. Anna does
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: not buy into this. She's just like, I'm gonna like
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: start dating this kid, Jimmy, for the summer. She wants
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: to have sex with him. She tells him, you know,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: I feel ready. She has sex on her terms, which
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: I think is an amazing thing to show on screen
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: of like, you know, a young woman feeling ready to
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: have sex for the first time, and the condom scene
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: that she buys a condom. Everything is on her terms.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: You know, she gives consent like this. This is all
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: like I loved it to see on screen that actual
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: sex scene when, you know she's like she turns the
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: lights back on. She's like, I want you to see
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: my body, this is what I look like. That whole thing,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: I felt, was handled so beautifully, and I don't think
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: it's like an act of protest against her mom's ideology,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: but it's just like what she wants to do and
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: it's like what she's doing, despite it, not wanting what
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: her mother wants for her. And Anna Pushes back on
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: this and says, why is a woman's virginity the only
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: thing that matters? A woman has thoughts, ideas, a mind
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: of her own, and so annas like constantly advocating for
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: like I'm more than my weight, I'm more than my size,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: I'm more than my virginity, you know, and it's just
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: like feminist icon. Eighteen year old ANA and America for air,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: like performs the hell out of those speeches. I like
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: it's so good. Yeah, I I really, and I liked that.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lesser movie, I don't know, like
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: this is such a case study for like women like
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: writing and directing stories about women, especially with the amount
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: of specificity that Josephina Lothpez does. Like it just works,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: like it's amazing, and I feel like a lesser story
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: would have because I was just like, okay, other teen
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: movie analogs, you see that, like in a lesser movie
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: and a Lesser Story, Anna would have been like, Oh,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: this boy thinks I'm beautiful, so I'm in love with
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: him now and like all this stuff. But she like
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: is very in charge of her sexuality. She's I loved it.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: They went out of the way to be like and
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: she made sure that she was safe. She protected herself,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: because who knows what's going on with this kid Jimmy,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: but also doesn't know how condoms work, which is very
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: true of seventeen year old um and that when she
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: was done, she was like, you know, I I don't
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: want this to be a relationship. I feel like teen
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: movies so often put young women in the situation of
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: like the first boy that is nice to me or
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: finds me attractive or like, sees me for who I like,
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: the whatever, walking down the stairs moment. What's that movie
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: that I used all that? Yes, like the first the
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: first boy that sees me for who I really am,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: is the love of my life and Blah, blah, blah.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: And an is like, I live in the real world.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: I don't want to keep seeing you, and like it's
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: just such a that happens nowhere. Like it was just
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: so cool to see her take charge of everything. Yeah,
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: I love, too, that the movie manages to be very dramatic, hilarious,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: hilarious but also very dramatic, and nothing that dramatic happens
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: plot wise, like she graduates high school, dates a boy
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: and goes to college, you know, like and like works,
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: like it feels so cinematic them, you know, very wholesome,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: but there's it's so cinematic, and that's for me, is
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: the you know, she doesn't get pregnant, she doesn't go
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: to jail, no one dies of an overdose, like, there's
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: no stabbings, like, but drama, and that's the brilliance of
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: the movie and the writing, like that's the storytelling, because
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: you're captivated and you're like feeling feelings and going through
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: it with her, and I feel like that is the
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: drama of Teen Angst. That's how heightened it can be.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: She's just being a teen girl, going the fuck through
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: it and clashing with her mom and you, like the
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: movie doesn't take any shortcuts when it comes to like
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: this is a dramatic story, so someone has to die,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's just like life is dramatic, yeah,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: and Hilarious, and the movie balances both very well. It's
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: so good. Yeah, it's well, you said it perfectly where
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: you're like yeah, like teen girl life is everything feels
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: like a movie. Everything Teen Angst, angst, and so this is,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: I think, just in that vein. Yeah, teen girls, you know,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: struggle or in the trend there in the trench. Truly,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: if you're a teen girl listening, I salute you. It
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: does get better. Eventually. You will eventually. Eventually it's hold on,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: and another thing I feel like I just was so
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: impressed and like blown away by the writing of like
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: there's no character, however small, that you don't have some
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: level of investment in, because the script goes out of
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: its way to like, you know at least something about
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: women who works with Estella, like you get to know
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: them over the course of the movie even like, and
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: I think again, in like a less thoughtfully written movie,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: it would just be like background, seems stress number four,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: but that role like doesn't exist. You learn everyone's name,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: you learn a little bit about them or at least
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: get a taste of their personality, and I feel like
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: that just makes the payoff of this like it could
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: have been a like I am spartacus moment where you're
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: like this is kind of cool, but who are these people?
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: But it's like you know who, who these women are,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: and you have already have gotten to know like a
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: little bit of their history and their relationship with their
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: coworkers throughout the movie, and so it feels like, Oh,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: I'm in a room full of women whose lives I
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: know something about and now they're finally comfortable talking about
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: their their bodies and their insecurities and they're like everything
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: and it just felt so yeah, like the attention to
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: detail is is so awesome. Absolutely. What else? What else
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: we got going on? Sorry, I feel like I just
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: blacked out for a second because I inhaled a yeah,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: I want to share one last quote from the creator
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: of this property, Cosavina Lopez. So the play seems to
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 1: be a bit more focused on the on a character
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: being undocumented for some portion of her life and the
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: anxiety about being undocumented and being deported, and that is
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: a focus on the play that is eliminated from the movie.
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: So this quote, this quote is a little bit about
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: Savina talking about being undocumented, just to put that into context.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: But HOSTAFNA says, quote, I was undocumented for thirteen years.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: I wanted to write a play to affirm my humanity
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: because I felt so dehumanized being undocumented. I've always had
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: issues with my weight and one of my teachers told me,
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: not in a mean way, she thought I was a
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: great actress, that I had the ability to play Juliette
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: and Lady Macbeth, but no one was going to cast
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: me as the Angeneue if I didn't lose weight, because
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: only thing girls get the lead. Men write roles and
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: direct the movies. So I had to adhere to those standards.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: Otherwise I'd always play the side character. I thought, okay,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: if I lose the weight, that I'm going to be
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: told by casting people that I should change my name
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: to a white name change my hair color. If I
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: do this, I'm going to have to give up who
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: I am to be an actress. I refused to do that.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: The problem isn't that I'm undocumented, Mexican, working class or overweight.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: The problem is society. Unquote. She said that sentiment feels
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: like it. It comes through in this movie very well
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: and that that's the core of what so much of
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: this movie is about and it's just such a positive
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: thing for that to be out in the world. Hell yeah,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: that's such a nice school. She's so cool. The last
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: thing I had. This is not a criticism, it was
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: just something that I is something we've talked about on
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: the show before and so I wanted to sort of
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: see what y'all felt about it. I really love that
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: this movie puts mother daughter Relationships Front and center and
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: gives them precedents. We get a few scenes with their father,
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: who seems to be a very nice, affable, kind of Guy,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: real nice guy, right, but as is their grandfather. I
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: just feel like, I don't know, I mean, I I
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: don't I don't even think that I would want anything
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: to be changed. I just think that there are moments
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: in movies that center around mothers and daughtered where it's
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: like the Dadd is always like the quote unquote, Nicer Guy.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: It just felt like a little I was like, okay,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: so mean they're scary, like we're getting we're getting into
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: scary territory with mean dad. Right. So it's like all
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: all the kind of baggage is rolled into Carmen and
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: it just like, I don't know, I mean, I didn't
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: really feel strongly about it. I just always feel like
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: I noticed when there's a lot of movies where it's
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: like the dad is, quote unquote, the Nice Parent. Yeah,
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: I would say that, yes, and that that certainly is
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: a trope that we've discussed to a large extent on
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: the show, but I think it all depends on how
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: the movie approaches it and how the movie actually handles it.
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: In this movie it didn't feel tropy. It didn't feel
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: like it was leaning into stereotypes about uh, a mom
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: being right. What is the word I'm searching for. But
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: she's like so I mean Carmen is so like contextualized
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: and well written and like you understand, yeah, why she
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: reacts the way she does. Right, there's there's all these shows,
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: like there's like I think of like the mom on
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: like Malcolm in the middle. Then there's like, UM, everybody
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: loves Raymond, the White Debrah, and I love all these characters,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: all these women. What's the other one? But there's a
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: bunch right, like where like the MOM is, Oh, my
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: wife and kids, the dad is like funny goofball, and
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: then the mom's kind of, kind of a bit, kind
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: of strict, always yelling, high strung, like he's always doing
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: stupid things to stress her out. And I feel like
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: in this film, like Carmen is like an Antihero. We
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: can't stand her and she sometimes because of the things
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: she says, but we still love her. And I also
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: feel like I love that on US character is allowed
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: to be kind of a brat, like Carmen's kind of
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: a bitch and on us kind of a Brat. And
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: as much as they insist that they are different, the
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: more we see their similarities, and I feel like it's
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: so interesting the way she pits them against each other,
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: but it's like we're learning more about each one of
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: them because they're the same person. You know. It is
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: like another thing where it's like I want to see. Yeah,
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're making a strong case for a sequel.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: I want to see what this relationship between them looks
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: like twenty years down the line, like, because I do
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: understand like there her parents. I mean there's so much
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: anxiety around Anna leaving to go to college, especially across
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: the country, and like I feel like there's a subtext
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: like she's gonna Change, she's gonna like not be the
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: girl that we raise and like she'll lose touch with
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: who she is if she leaves, and I would love
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: to see that relationship examined twenty years down. My last
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: observation is so there is another movie about like a
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: young woman who has just graduated from high school, who
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: lives in California and has a difficult relationship with her mother.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: She dates a boy and has sex for the first
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: time and then she goes off to college across the country.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: I also think in New York City, and that movie
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: is Ladybird. There's a lot of parallels here and Ladybird
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: is kind of a Brat. Yeah, and like a lot
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: of body stuff with the mom as well body stuff.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: You know, there's class commentary in that movie as well.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: Very similar movies. I would say if you like Ladybird,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: for sure check out real women have curves, if you
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it. I think the real women occurs does
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: it better. I find it to be a more fifteen
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: years earlier. Yeah, exactly, I didn't make that connection. Yeah, totally. So. Yeah,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: if you liked Ladybird, definitely check out real women have curves,
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it. Sorry, I got caught up
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: in my own horrible Lady Bird joke, which is, instead
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: of that boy Jimmy, Ladybird has that boy timmy. To
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: Me Shalomay, yes, to me shallowmy most hilarious joke of
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: all time, ha ha, and on that. No, there's actually
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: no good way to transition this, but I mean talking
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: about Timothy Shalomy, I do think passes the Bechtel test,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: if that's where you're going. I don't know. What is
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: he like, you know, like this, can we even a
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: good question? You really vouch for him? I feel like
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: it's still kind of a mystery. It eludes me. But
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't elude me whether this movie passes
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: the Bechtel test or not. Yes, we did it. This
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: movie super passes the Bechtel Test. It's barely even worth
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: discussing because it passes between almost any pairing of characters
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: that aren't men. I like we discussed before Um, this
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: movie does takes a lot of care to give every
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: character in the movie, particularly the women, a name and
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: some information about them. So really any interaction happening at
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: the factory that isn't explicitly about marriage passes the Betel test.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: They're talking about their bodies, they're talking about school, they're
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: talking about work, they're talking about deadlines, they're talking about taxes,
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: they're talking about they're just, you know, dare say it,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: being full on people and characters the whole damn movie. Yap,
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: and as we also Um touched on in the episode,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: this movie is has just so much focus on the
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: female characters and the relationships between female characters. And while
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: there are, you know, there's a dad, there's the GRANDPA,
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: there's a couple male cousins, those characters are like pretty
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: secondary or tertiary and it's really so much of a
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: focus on the women and their relationships. So still depicted
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: up with love. It's not like they're like left by
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: the boys up, but like, but, you know, like, but yes,
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: it is. It is a women's movie and, Um, you know,
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: women that we don't usually get focused on, women who
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: are working class, women who are immigrants, women who are
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: people of Color and Latin x specifically. So it's just
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: this movie is doing so much that no other movie
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: of its time is doing, and still most movies now
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: we're not doing so. With that in mind, another per
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: grade transition, and do you mean the Nipple scale? Yes,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: the only perfect metric, and it is, of course, a
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: scale of zero to five Nipples, based on examining the
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: movie through an Intersectional Feminist Lens. So, you know, given
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: all possible factors, to consider every potential factor one might consider, Um,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: with regards to this movie and this rating, I would
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: give it a four. Hell Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: I would go like four, four and a half. It's
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: I was really happy to see, like, especially, I mean
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: just the fact that, like, women wrote and directed and
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: produced this and, like, most of them are women of color.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: Like that, I feel like. I mean, yeah, still unheard
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: of now and it's still and it's a classic, like
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: you can't. It's I feel like real women have curves
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: kind of yet to be topped, except by real women
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: have curves to coming out next year, yes, pending. And
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: then we also, Um, you know, bequeath you the power
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: to gift your four Nipples to any character person, actor,
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: production person of your choice. Um, you can distribute in
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: pairs or not, you know, like kind of uh, get
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: creative with it. Oh, this is so difficult because I
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: want to give to each to just America and Loupe,
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: you know, just split them up half and half, but
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: I also want to give Hostafina to but I have four.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: You know what? I'M gonna give loop anti vettos too,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: because she passed away R I p. I'm gonna give
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: Lopez to because she wrote it, she's an icon, and
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna give a go for one because she's the
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: youngest and I think it's still working on icon status.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: That's how we'll do it. I think that that was
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: very judicious of you. That was very diplo about it.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I'M gonna go forward a half and I'm
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: gonna docket the half nipple just for making America, for her,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable when she was seventeen. She is a living legend
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: and a child and I'm, you know, gonna, I'm gonna
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: put that one on Lavo. No nipples for Lavu from me. Zero.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: But outside of that, I think this movie is so
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: fucking awesome and it, I mean it was doing so
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: many things no other movies we're doing. Josephina Lopez is
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: an incredible writer and I just love every element of
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: this movie. And I'm now and Estella stand for life.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: So I'll give one nipple to anna, one to Estella.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: I'll give the half to carmen because she's doing her
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: best and I have, I have loved for her, but
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: leave Anna and Asti alone. Um, I'll give one to Poncha.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: I loved Poncha. I feel like super underrated character and
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: I will give one too. I should give one to
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: Hostephina Lopez, but I'm going to give it to Hostafina Lopez,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: playing the manager of the Burger joint because, Um, that
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: is acting, scene steeler, scene steeler. Exactly, where was Major
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: Oscar snub that year? Oh, and then the last thing
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: I wanted to say was I guess as of last year.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: There's a musical being written around this. So hopefully people
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: are listening to this episode from the future and just
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: saw real women have curves on Broadway. I feel like
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: this would be such a good musical. Hell, yeah, I
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: love musicals, Um, and I love musical adaptations that aren't
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: already Disney movies, so this seems like something I would love. Caitlyn,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: what is your writing for this Flim? This flim gets
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: I would say four and a half. I was going
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: to give it a five before I knew about the
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: the sketchy things that were happening, especially in that one
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: in that one particular scene where America Ferrera expressed discomfort
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: and then they deceived her with like Yucky but Um,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: aside from that, this is such a wonderful movie. Again,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: a focus on women, women's stories, women's relationships, positive Latin
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: x representation that we so rarely see in cinema, especially
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: in in this era, messages of body positivity, of sex positivity,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: a focus on a working class family in Los Angeles,
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: a side of Los Angeles that we don't tend to
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: see or that tends to be Um demonized in most media. Multigenerational,
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: which I feel like we haven't like explicitly, like there's
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: just there's so much and so much is accomplished so effortlessly,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: so effortleless. Oh my gosh, I'm so bad at that word,
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: like everyone has those words. It takes a lot of
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: effort for me to say effortlessly. There we go. Um,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: so much is accomplished in a movie that is less
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: than an hour and a half, which we were texting about.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: Every movie should be less than an hour and a
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: half long. If this movie can do what it does
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: in an hour and a half, what's your excuse? I
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: was about to say something flippant annoying. And what's your excuse? Titanic. Okay,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: now that's straight up. One exception. Yeah, I know, I know,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know. I'm so sorry. Everyone.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: Who are you giving your nipples to? Um, I'm going
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: to give my nipples to one to America Ferrera, one
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: to Lupe Anti Veros, one to Ingrid, oh, you who
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: plays a stella. I'll give one to the women who
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: work in the clothing factory and then my half nipple
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: I will give to Los Angeles public transportation, because it's
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: called the metro pre as owner, but it is public transportation.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: It is, and I do take it sometimes brave occasional
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: redline user. Wow, I love to bully people who don't
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: use enough public transportation. But that said, you drove me
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: to the beach yesterday, so it makes you think it does.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: It does indeed. Right. So, Um, that is real. Women
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: have curves. Mala, thank you so much for being here. And,
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, where can we find you online? Plug away. Yes,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: so I'm on all social platforms at Mala, underscore, Monos,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: M U N O Z is the last name, and
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: you can listen to I have two podcasts out. One
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: is called Look Radio, which is, uh, the flagship podcast
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: that I co host with my co producer Diosa, and
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: then my solo show, might one, a podcast for pod heads,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: and we're on apple, apple podcast, spotify, all the usual places.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, also your stand up sucking rules. Thank you
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: so much. Yes, and then you can follow us on
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: twitter and Instagram at Bechtel cast. You can subscribe to
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: our matreon at Patreon dot com slash becketel cast, which
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: gives you two bonus episodes every month, along with access
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: to the back catalog of over one hundred bonus episodes.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: And that is all for five dollars a month. Oh,
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: can you imagine? Can you imagine? Nearly it's actually sometimes
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: I do reflect on the value and just I'm like, wow,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: what a deal, what a steal. Where are we? Okay, uh,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: you can also get our march at t public dot com.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: Slash the Bechdel cast, if you are so inclined. And
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: with that, um I mean I think we should mention
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: we've been shirtless for the last half of the episode.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, am I gonna put my clothes back on?
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: We'll see. Carmen deal with it right. Bye, bye, bye,