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Seth Hall · Calm Under Fire

• Col. John Boggs: Welcome to Calm Under Fire. I'm Colonel John Boggs, president of Fortitude Consulting, an executive leadership and leadership development firm and a coaching firm. Today we have as our guest Seth Hall. Seth is an operations leader with deep experience navigating change and leading large-scale service organizations. His work is focused on driving sustainable results in environments where performance, people, and systems all have to move together. Today we're talking about leadership under pressure, especially when change is constant and results still have to follow. Seth, thank you very much for being here today. I greatly appreciate it. Seth Hall: Thanks for having me, good to be here. Col. John Boggs: Thanks. Well, Seth, do you mind if we just jump right in it? Okay. Seth Hall: Let's do it. I'm ready. Col. John Boggs: All right. Seth, you've spent a career leading through change. When did you first realize how much pressure change creates for leaders? Seth Hall: Well, it's funny, I was thinking about this conversation that we were gonna have and thinking about change in general, and I can't believe it took me this long to connect the dots, but I actually graduated from college and my first job out of college was with Anderson Consulting, or now Accenture, as a Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: change management consultant. So I knew if someone was gonna pay me that it probably wasn't easy to do, right? So I knew right out of the gates that, change and going through change, whether it's a transformational change or even a small change, that it's something that needs to be managed. And I think as I started to get more, you know, experience throughout my career, I think that the big thing I've realized is that it's not always just about the change itself or the execution of the change. It's about Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: helping people. manage, it's about helping the people manage that change, right? It's less about the actual change itself and more you have to think about the impact of that change on people. So I knew pretty early on that this was going to be something that I was going to have to be mindful of and as a leader, be good at and that's navigating change. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. All right. So what's different about leading when things are stable versus when things are shifting? Seth Hall: I think as a leader, when things are stable, which that doesn't happen often, but I think when things are stable, it's about really optimizing teams and results and performance, and you almost have the ability to be able to do that. I think when things are shifting and changing, it's about anchoring. And I think people look for stability and consistency. I think those are things you'll probably hear a lot from me that I've learned over my career is just how important those two aspects are as a leader. Again, being very consistent and being very consistent, thoughtful about what you're doing, how you're communicating. I think, again, people look for stability. when things are changing and I think it's up to you as a leader to be able to provide that. Col. John Boggs: Okay, well, how do leaders maintain consistency? You were just talking about the being consistent. So how do they maintain consistency when expectations never slow down, when they just don't slow? How do you stay consistent? Seth Hall: I think it's being very deliberate with what you're doing and being very thoughtful of that and very sincere with your actions. so, you know, I think often about... you know, what people look for when things are moving or challenging or uncertain. And I think often they're looking for someone to, again, not always have the right answer because there may not be the silver bullet, the right answer. But I really think that it is. consistency and stability with your behaviors, with how you communicate. It sounds so simple and in a lot of ways it is on paper very simple. The execution of that is not always very easy, but I think Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: that it is being overly deliberate with just how consistent you are with your messaging. And I think the other thing too that I've learned over my career is oftentimes, and myself included, you think it's not that big of a deal. I sent out an email last week, so I'm sure they get it, right? I think there's usually a very big gap between how you think people are perceiving things and sort of absorbing that change and the reality. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: And that can cause a lot of angst for people. So I think you have to over index on people not feeling good about whatever change is out there and over communicating and trying to be again, very deliberate with your actions, your communications. going out and if you have an office where people are working in the actual physical location, getting out there and asking people and talking about the change or whatever it might be that you're managing through. Col. John Boggs: That's very interesting because I believe that also you've got to over communicate. In today's environment where people are in many companies, I won't say most, I don't know most, but in many companies people are working from home or they're working or they're spread out. How do you cross that divide? Seth Hall: Yeah, I mean, think it's a great point. And I think that, you know, at the end of the day, there's a couple of things I've learned. you know, one is we keep talking about, well, you know, there's this tool and there's that tool and there's text messaging Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: and there's Chad and there's, you know, all sorts of, you know, teams, channels and all of that. But at the end of the day, picking up the phone, connecting with someone and talking. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: It is amazing how simple it is and yet how impactful it can be. Just to give you a... sort of a side story, one of the things at the organization that I'm at now, Leo Insurance, that we're very keen on is Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: measuring net promoter score. And that is a survey that's sent out to people and essentially it says, would you refer us to a friend or colleague? It's a 10 point scale. We have done very well with that. We've gotten great remarks, but there are times where we get a score that's less than ideal. It's what we do as a practice is I will literally email or pick up the phone if I have their information and contact them. And more times than Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Seth Hall: not, they're saying, my gosh, I had no idea someone would actually get back to me. I mean, while there is the Amazon experience out there, which is great in a lot of ways, servicing Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: and, you know, everyone's busy and texting and just connecting with people at a very basic human level and pick up the phone as a leader is like a secret weapon. It's amazing that in 2026, we're saying that. But it's true. It really is. I Col. John Boggs: Okay. Seth Hall: mean, I call people on just to check in and and I know it means a lot. mean, it means a lot to me when people do that to me, you know, so Col. John Boggs: Yeah, yeah. Seth Hall: basic but very, very meaningful and profound. Col. John Boggs: How do you get people to buy into that? Because that's tough. There's people who, as I'm sure you realize, person can be in the office right next door and they'll send a text message or they'll send an email. Seth Hall: Well, I think it's a good point. So I think, you know, I was being, know, one size doesn't always fit all. And I do think, Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Seth Hall: you know, I've gotten some feedback and people have made fun of me a little bit too with, you know, me not using Teams, for example, the chat function, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: and that's all they live in. And so... You know, then Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Seth Hall: I have, I'm sort of at the fork in the road, right? can do one of two things. can say, well, listen, you know, I would prefer to talk or, or, you know, have an email, not go through the team's channel, but, I feel like as their manager, their leader, you know, I have to pick my spots. Right. And so, you Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Seth Hall: know, and at times meeting them where they are is important. And so I. took that feedback from that one person and now I communicate with them via via teams and it works better and it's a you Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Seth Hall: know it works well for for them and it's it's fine for me so I don't think there's a one size fits all in today's world but Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: I guess my overarching point is is just how basic and sort of forgotten at times the live conversation can be. And Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Seth Hall: I do think it's, you do have to be deliberate about that. You have to say, Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Seth Hall: okay, I'm gonna pick up the phone, I'm gonna call them and set up time. It can be five minutes, but I think it goes a long way. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. In a service organization with constant demands, where does the pressure show up most consistently in that environment? Seth Hall: I think, you know, if I think about our service organization, I think what's difficult is, and this is hard for people I think in general, is just the gap between sort of expectations that people have and the reality. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: of the situation and what I mean by that specifically is, and I mentioned it before, but you can have this Amazon type experience where you can go online and buy something and have it. And a lot of it is actually very remarkable when you get something delivered to your front doorstep the next day. so, I think having that as a consumer to have that as sort of the North Star, we're fighting against that and that we're trying to do our best all of the time. But things are ever changing here in our organization and a lot of organizations. So I think that the, you know, that gap between someone's expectations and the reality can cause a little bit of strain. You know, I think that getting back to your, you know, sort of the purpose of this call, think things are changing so fast. in our world right now. And with the advent of AI and we're knee deep in that things are changing Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: at a scale that I have never, never seen before. so Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: providing some sense of stability and consistency and clarity for people while you're changing at the same time is in threading that needle is the definition of good leadership, I think. Col. John Boggs: Okay. You've driven sustainable results. Not just the short-term wins, but the sustainable results. What does that require from you or a person in leadership position with today's pressures? What does that require of you to keep producing those kinds of results? Seth Hall: so I, I do two things pretty consistently. One is, and I, I just went through an exercise with my, technology team literally last week, which is, I do think it's really important to have the end in mind, whatever that might be. So, so being really clear on what it is you are actually, sort of marching towards, I think. when people don't have that clarity, it gets really, it's hard, right? Because then what are you sort of marching towards? What are you fighting for? So I think starting with the end in mind is really important. I literally say those words. say, even on this presentation we put together last week, it said, starting with the end in mind, and we had a picture of what that looks like. But then it's, so what? So how do we get there? my take, whether it's right or wrong, goes back to a story that I talk about often. It was so funny because it was so long ago, but I've sort of Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: used the idea often. I played basketball in high school. I like to think I didn't have a lot of bad games, on this night I was having a poor shooting game. And I remember I got to shoot this three and I got to make up. you know, for my first half and I got to do all this stuff and I remember my dad pulling me aside. He goes, go to the side basket right now and just shoot 15 layups and just watch the ball go in. Just shoot easy little layups and just seeing the ball through the hoop and just like getting some. confidence back, had a much better second half. I bring that up because I use that philosophy a lot in business in terms of, I think it's important to start with the end in mind, but then you break it down into really bite-sized chunks. Because I Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: think if you start saying, hey, we're in the first quarter, by the second quarter, we need to be here. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: people need help with how to step through that. think that getting the, and everyone's cadence is going to be a little different, whether it's every other week, whether it's once a month, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: some really clear milestones to allow you to say, I'm a little left, I'm a little right, or I'm right on target. When you're right on target, it fuels you, it feels good. We're moving in that direction. I think that those are really important elements to keeping that and driving sustainable performance, quite frankly, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: is breaking things down into very digestible, understandable, achievable milestones and targets, but also knowing what the end in mind is at the same time. Col. John Boggs: That's yes, knowing we're the end of mind. So when change happens, both people and systems get tested. So where do leaders most often misjudge what's needed? I mean, I love the story that you just told about your dad and go watch the ball go in. That's perfect. Seth Hall: Yeah, I think where people often trip up a bit is in sort of assuming that the way in which you ingest change and how you feel about it and your understanding of it is going to be the same that everyone else experiences and that could not be further from the truth. You have a lot of times as a leader, more experience, you have more context, and you've sort of been through the challenges of change before. And so it's, I don't want say it's easy, but it might be easier. And so I think it's really easy to... sort of again over index on how you're feeling and thus that's how everyone else is going to feel and I think that's big mistake. think that's one thing which would then require you to do a lot more of those let's communicate more than we think. If we think we need to pull in the group and have a once a month meeting let's probably do it a little bit more than that. The second thing is we do it a lot here is these things should not be done in a vacuum. So, you know, having people that from different parts of the organization that may have different perspectives, bringing them in into the fold. I think is really important. I know that that's not always possible and in bigger organizations that can be, but I've had a lot of luck in doing that and bringing people in and saying, okay, here's what's going on. Here's how we're thinking about it. How do you think this is going to be perceived? We literally did this two weeks ago and it was really helpful because we were missing something. We were missing how we were interpreting. the change. so I think, you know, those are those are two things. One is force yourself to to over communicate with with whatever that might mean verbally walking around. And then the second is to to bring in people into your your your bubble where you can get a lot of just an echo chamber. Bring someone in to challenge that that you trust that you know will give you the candid feedback about how people are gonna perceive this. Those are two, I think, really tangible items that people can walk away with. Col. John Boggs: Is that, you said assumptions and we know assumptions can really kill you. Is that how you get around assumptions? Seth Hall: I do, I mean, I tend to, and again, I think this is just from being in the business for a long time, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: it's okay to not have the answers as a leader. I know when I first started, I very much felt like, you're hiring me and you're paying me to have all of the answers, literally. I mean, that's how I thought. you I was very guarded with, or sort of pretending if you're trying to get by, trying to not be exposed. And I think, you know, the older we get, the more we realize how little we know. And I think people aren't looking for all of the answers. And that was a big aha moment for me. They want... they want stability, they want consistency, and they want someone that they can look to that will get the answers and that they can trust to guide them through this time, right? And I think one of the, I'll say worst things is to have the inconsistency with the behavior and the results where people are not really understanding or not. knowing how someone's gonna react. think that could be very challenging for the team if the leader is doing that. Col. John Boggs: Wow, I couldn't agree with you more with that one. When the leadership is not consistent, when they're not grounded, it's hard for everyone else to be grounded. Seth Hall: That's right. Col. John Boggs: You also, and I love this, you said it's not the answers. Seth Hall: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: Yeah. I often tell leaders, hey, you need to own the questions. Develop your Seth Hall: Yeah, right. Col. John Boggs: team. on the questions, not the answers. So how do Seth Hall: Yeah. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: you all go about doing that? Yeah. Seth Hall: Well, I mean, you have to have the answers. Col. John Boggs: Sometimes, Seth Hall: So it's good to have the answers every once in a while. But I think people need to know that you are supporting their journey with your organization. I think that what I do, I certainly can't, I just can give you my personal story, is that people know. And if you were to interview people here in the company, I think they would say that when I say I'm going to get an answer and I'm going to help them resolve this issue, whatever it might be, it doesn't mean that I'm just taking their work. But if they're being challenged with something or they quite frankly just don't know, I am going to work side by side with them to get them an answer. Now there's also the whole element of like, how do you coach them to so that next time they can, you know, they can do the same thing and they can run with it. But, you know, I think it's it goes back to I don't know where I learned it or who talked about it, but it's the servant leadership. You know what I mean? I mean, it's so Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Seth Hall: it is actually so true. And I think about the people that I've admired and respected as as managers and leaders. And that's how they whether they were overtly doing that or not. that's how they behaved and that's how I felt that I could go to them and they could just whatever challenge I had, they were going to thread that needle very perfectly around getting me the answer because I needed it, but also me then walking away and having learned a little bit and being a better employee. Col. John Boggs: In environments where pressure doesn't let up. How do you think about decision making over time? mean, you're getting the answers, but now, you know, decisions have to be made. And in my experience, I've seen a number of leaders, particularly senior leaders, which this gets awful, but they would rather go to the restroom and get sick than have to be stuck with having to make a decision. Seth Hall: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: So when the pressure is not letting up, when you've got a lot going on, but a decision needs to be made. How do you do that? Seth Hall: Well, I would say I would answer that in two ways. One is, you know, I have someone who, you know, I work with now who is he is the best at this and he is not afraid to make a decision but he is very inclusive. So when he has a big decision he is essentially talking out loud to all of his direct reports about the essentially the options. So he will call, he will pull in, we have discussions and he is sort of outwardly thinking about the various options to get reactions to people from people on what he's thinking. And he is essentially, which I think is, and I've stolen it, is great. He essentially is taking little bits from everyone and everyone has a little bit of a different perspective, whether it's our CFO, whether it's me, whether it's our head of technology, everyone has a little bit of a different lens that they're looking at that issue from. And he pulls it together. I think it's a very I think it's something that's hard to do. It's an acquired skill, but I think it's been very, very effective in Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Seth Hall: how to work through those situations that are, he may not have, he may be, he's not doing it just to placate us. He's doing it because he sincerely is wanting. different perspectives and doesn't have Col. John Boggs: Thank Seth Hall: the right answer. I think that does one of it does two things. One is it gets to a better answer usually because he's got a well rounded sort of response. And the second thing is it makes us feel like we're in it. Like, so now we're a part of it, which I think is is Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: great. The other piece that all I'll add to it's a little bit different, but I love sharing this is because this was advice that was given to me. This isn't necessarily like just a singular maybe decision that somebody is dealing with. when I was thinking about making a fairly significant career shift 20 some odd years ago, I had a mentor at that time say, you if you think about companies, what do they have? They have a board of directors, people that are helping to drive decisioning, vision, Col. John Boggs: Okay. Seth Hall: feedback loops. You're more important than any company, right? Sure I am. Well, you should have a board of directors. And I was like, that's a really interesting thought. And so what I did and what I have is three people, four, one point, now it's three people that I essentially asked many, many years ago to be just people that I respected, admired, just to be, you know, loosely called my advisors if I ever needed it. And I actually got to a point where when I was wanting to make this career shift, I brought them into the mix and said, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: here's the scenario, you know, what do you think? We didn't have a formal meeting. I would talk to each one individually, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: but I think it's a really important thing to think about. And it's really helped me to have these advisors that helped me when I need it. Again, It's a little bit of a different take on your question, but something I thought Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: was worthy of bringing up. Col. John Boggs: That is, that's a unique thing to have your own personal board of advisors. Seth Hall: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: It's gotta help with decision making and Seth Hall: That's right. Col. John Boggs: particularly those lifelong decisions. That is, and I hope everyone listening pays attention to that, having your own personal board, an informal board if you will, but it's your board and they're there to help you. That's wonderful. Seth Hall: That's right. Yeah. And they're, yeah, and they're people that have, you know, I these three individuals, you know, they're more experienced than I have. And they've had, you know, a lot of different, different experiences. They're not in my industry. One was, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: two are not. But they're, you know, they're just for those big decisions. And again, career changes, those types of things. It's really been Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: very helpful to have their perspective. And they're unpaid, by the way. They're unpaid. Col. John Boggs: And they're unpaid. Seth, what has leading through continuous change in your position today, what has that taught you about leadership itself? Seth Hall: I think it's just taught me that there are no server bullets. It's really about consistency. It's about communication. It's about being a humble leader. And I think it's also about you know, being a good anchor for people. Like I said, you don't necessarily need to have all of the answers, but I think providing consistency with behaviors, with your actions, you know, I learned very early on that people are going to listen to what you say, they're gonna listen to what you don't say, they're going to see what you do, and they're gonna see what you don't do. And all of those things, sort of our who you are as a leader. And so I just think providing, you know, consistency and clarity for people and being a servant leader is how I've tried to behave. sometimes I've done a good job. Sometimes I've had to, you know, do a little reflection and improve, but that those are the principles that I are guided by. Col. John Boggs: What advice would you give a stepping into a role where change is the only constant? What advice would you give a leader? Seth Hall: You know, I think it would I would say two things. One is to not feel as though you have to have all of the answers. I really think that that's that's the biggest one. I think people initially go to I am the leader. I have to have all of the answers. And I actually think that that's completely the opposite way to think. You are a conductor, you are a facilitator of the best ideas and the best thinking. So it's really incumbent upon you as a leader to get those out of all of the smart people that you've... you've hired and mentored. And so you have to realize that you're in it together, right? It's not just you as a leader over there. And then the second thing, which is we've talked about, is really not. is really appreciating the value and the benefit of consistent communication and just being out there. That's what people, they're looking for you to provide that clarity and that sense of calm and anchoring when things are shaking all around you. That's what most people look for that leader is, okay, Seth isn't freaking out. He's calm and he's doing the same things he's always doing. I'm going to the temperature just got reduced by X because of that. I think those are behaviors that good leaders exhibit. Col. John Boggs: Thank you, Seth. Seth, for leaders who are navigating operational change or looking to sustain results over time, what's the best way for them to connect with you and to learn more about you and your work? As a matter of fact, if you can take a second and tell us about what you do and your company and how do people reach you? Seth Hall: We'll start with that. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I've been Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Seth Hall: on LinkedIn for a while, communicate a lot through LinkedIn. So that is the easiest way I'm always responding. on LinkedIn. that is the best way. I welcome, particularly for people who just want to bounce ideas off of me or have a quick discussion. I'm open for all of that because I the beneficiary of a lot of good mentors and advice over the years. So it's my time to sort of pay it back. And then asking or answering your first question, I work for a company called Leo Insurance. Leo Insurance is a really I don't know when you can stop saying a startup company. We've been at this for about five and a half years. I was employee number one with Chris McGuire. We were at Philadelphia Insurance Companies before. We are a property and casualty commercial insurer. And when we first started this, we really saw an opportunity in the market to make the experience a lot easier by utilizing technology in insurance. saw that as this huge opportunity to really change the equation, again, utilizing technology. And that's what we've done. And we've been able to grow every year. We have about 80 employees. We're national. We have our headquarters here outside of Philadelphia and Concha-Hawken and have offices across the country. So things are going very, very well. But things are changing as we talked about. It happens here all the time every day. So I am learning every day how to navigate the constant change. But most of change has been very positive and feel very fortunate to be working for this company. Again, Leo Insurance. Yep. Col. John Boggs: Leo insurance. Got it. Got it. Okay. Well, Seth, thank you very much for being here. Thank you for your comments, particularly your comments about, my, let me get to my notes. loved it. Listen, no silver bullets. No silver bullets. Communications, humble leader. Seth Hall: No silver balls. That's for sure. Yep. Col. John Boggs: Listen to what they listen to what you say and what you don't say. Servant leadership, they Seth Hall: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: see what you do and don't do. We talk about, know, asterisk comments and there you go. But Seth Hall: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: Seth, thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it, brother. I Seth Hall: Absolutely, I enjoyed it. Col. John Boggs: can't thank you enough. All right, well, hey, for those that are listening, hey, stay steady out there. Remember leadership is too important to get wrong. So take your time, get it right. And you need insurance, need, you just wanna talk about leadership. Reach out to Seth, he's got his shit together, I'm telling you. All right, hey guys, thank you all very much and out here.