Latest / The City of Frankfort Podcast / Ep 35: Cracking the Code- How Frankfort’s Ordinances Work

Transcript

Ep 35: Cracking the Code- How Frankfort’s Ordinances Work · The City of Frankfort Podcast

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From Capitol Halls to Bourbon Balls, this is the City of Frankfurt podcast for
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the Frankfortians. We're swapping stories and spilling the tea and celebrating
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the quirks that make Kentucky's capital the best hometown around.
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Welcome to the City of Frankfurt podcast. I'm Alex, and today we're joined by
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the MVP of City Hall, our city clerk, Charmaine Maxwell.
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We're talking all about how to crack the code, the code of ordinances.
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Today, we're going to break down what a city ordinance is and how it works and
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how you as a Frankfortian can crack the code.
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Welcome, Shomay. We're excited to have you as a guest on our pod today.
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Thank you. Thanks for having me. Okay, we're gonna jump right into it.
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You're affectionately referred to as the glue that holds City Hall together.
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So tell me about your day-to-day life. Tell me about how you became the City
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Clerk and what you do every day.
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Okay, so I became the City Clerk in 2015. 2015, yes. 11 years. Yes. So 2015.
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I've been here for a long time, but that's how I've been clerk.
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A little bit before of my role. Is that what? Yeah. Yeah. I guess I feel the
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people may not know what the city clerk does. We all know how much you do,
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but tell everybody else how much you do. Yeah, I do. I do quite a bit.
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And it's kind of hard to put it all down on paper. So I tried to kind of write
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some notes here to try to cover some of it.
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So first and foremost is my open records request, which,
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are kind of out of control. They're 350 so far for the year.
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We'll probably hit 500. I don't know.
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So open records are like documents. If a citizen wants city information,
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they request an open record. Correct. Whether it be, you know,
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a police report or a contract that somebody did on anything like that. Right.
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It's public record. You just have to request it. Right. And I'm the custodian
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the record. So everything comes through me. You have to make sure it's legit
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legal. Yeah. Correct. So there's a lot of, you know, laws and exemptions and
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different things that can happen.
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So everything kind of flows through me no matter what the request is.
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I do work for the Board of Commissioners. So I draft their agendas,
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do minutes, gather items for the agendas, work with the city attorney, city manager.
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We do various issues, topics.
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I also help out the Board of Ethics and the Human Rights Commission with their
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meeting notices and get those distributed to the public in case they want to
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come to a meeting. Right.
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And then also, you know, you write what your plan is for the day,
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but things happen and some days you don't get anything done that you wanted to get done.
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I understand. Because there are so many other things that are thrown at you
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that you have to take care of right away. I have a lot of deadlines and uncertain
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things. So I'll make a list.
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And at the end of the day, nothing will have been marked off my list.
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That's right. It's so frustrating, but it's just part of the job.
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Part of the job. That's the way it goes. That's the way it goes.
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And you stay busy because, I mean, really, like putting an agenda together sounds
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simple, but you have to put an agenda together for all the city departments, which.
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Really means I don't think people know that the Parks Department,
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Public Works, which is streets, police
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fire sewer like the list goes on we're all we're local local government so it's
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for everybody that's involved in local government it's not just a particular
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department it's not so it's so it is it's,
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agendas, it seems like we're always working on an agenda. So,
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you know, one meeting ends. We had a meeting last night.
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And then, of course, I have to go through all the documents after the meetings,
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get all that distributed. So a lot of people think after the meeting,
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it's done. It's not. I still have to work.
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Sometimes it takes me two or three days to go through the documentation from
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the meeting and get it out there to the public or whoever needs it,
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to the staff, public, or whatever, and get everything taken care of.
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So that's a whole other thing, too.
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I think that's the reference to you being the glue because you've got to keep
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up with all of us. We're all always needing and asking for something,
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aren't we? Sometimes I feel like my glue's dried up.
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I don't know. I don't know.
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Okay. So, yeah.
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You've had a long history besides this with the city. Tell us how you got in
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this role and like your past, what you did before this, I guess.
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Okay. So when I started here was 2002 and I just happened to answer an ad.
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I just moved back from Florida. We'd looked down there 14 years,
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moved back from Florida, back to Frankfurt, which I grew up here and answered
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the ad on the paper and came for an interview and got hired in planning.
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So that's how I started in planning. I didn't know that. Yeah,
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I didn't know that. You knew that.
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I'm planning. So I was in planning.
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And up till I think around 2006 or 2007, Glenna Sandefur retired in public works.
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So I went for her job and got the administrative aide in public works.
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So I did that until the city clerk job came open and interviewed for that. And the rest is history.
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That's where I remember you. That's where I met you. Yeah. That's where I fell in love with you.
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Yeah, well, no, I think you were, yeah, I met you when I was in Public Works.
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Yeah. I was a teeny bopper. Yeah.
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Yeah, you were. I got sucked into this, too. Oh, you sure are. Yeah.
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I've got all my gray hairs from here. I had brown hair. So I'll have something
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to blame it on. I had brown hair when I started this quote, and now I have so
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much gray hair. We love our job.
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I do. I love working for the citizens of Frankfurt. Yeah.
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You have to have a servant's heart. Yes. To work in the municipal government.
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Yeah. We laugh all the time that you have to have a particular demeanor to do
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this, I think. You really do. You definitely do.
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So let's just talk specifically about stuff. Okay. What exactly is an ordinance?
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So our local ordinances...
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Local ordinances in Kentucky are laws which are enacted by the city and county
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governments, and it addresses local issues, public safety,
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just a whole array of issues depending on what, you know, somebody can bring
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one forward for the board of commissioners to look at.
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Anybody can bring up an ordinance if it's a new idea. So it's not like,
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it's a law or a rule, not like a criminal thing, like police handle that,
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but it's like a rule for our community. That's correct. It may not be the same in Lexington or rural.
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That's correct. It's whatever their ordinances are. It's a local municipal ordinance.
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So it would be either city, county, but ours, of course, is just city.
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And yeah, they're different.
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They're all going to be different. Some of them can mirror each other because
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sometimes we might call another city or email another city and say,
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hey, can you share your ordinance for blah, blah, blah.
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You know, and then maybe we might take portions of it or people call us too
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and say, what's your ordinance for this? Kind of how do y'all handle the situation? Right.
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And it's good if it's, you know, if it's a municipal government that's kind
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of the same size as our city, same size as ours, you know, that type of thing.
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It's really helpful to have that what do you do you know right and it might
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not be everything that we want
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to do but it could give us some good ideas right put in the ordinance so
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um so like who's responsible like how to who makes the ordinance a legit legal
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ordinance like who's responsible for that so that would be board of commissioners
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uh we would bring the ordinance to them
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they get have a first reading
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which is just um somebody would sponsor one of the commissioners and the mayor
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would sponsor that first reading.
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They would discuss it if they have any discussion. Sometimes they don't.
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The second reading is when they, excuse me, vote.
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Vote for whether they want the ordinance or not that makes sense um so what
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about i guess explain more about like the public process how it gets established like,
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I guess, like, do we just have a problem and we have to find a solution?
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Does the public bring about, you know, complain about something or like,
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we need to set this? Or how does the ordinance normally, what's the beginning
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stages? Where does it come from? So it could be, excuse me, I'm sorry.
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It could be the public having an issue and coming in, speaking in meetings,
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bringing it to staff's attention.
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Or it could be staff talking in general about something that we feel like is
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a problem and that we want to bring forth to the board of commissioners.
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Or it could be the board of commissioners. One of them say, hey,
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this is becoming an issue.
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Can we do an ordinance for this? Yeah. And then we would bring it to them.
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It's a good solution to things. It's a good way to solve things. It is. Definitely.
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How's it different from like just a basic policy? Like we have in-house policies
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here or like a law, like the police would enforce. What's the difference?
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So actually, an ordinance is a law.
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Our policies would be internal policy. Right.
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So an ordinance would be a law that would be for the entire city of Frankfurt.
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Yeah. And once it's codified, which I think we're going to talk about,
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too, once it's codified, then it does become a law. Yeah.
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So ordinances like citizens should abide by policies or things that internally
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may be just you and I, city employees, depending on the type of policy,
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maybe just something that we have to do as employees of the city.
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Cool. That's neat. Yeah. So who, and it gets a little confusing because it is
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a law. Who enforces it? Like, do the police enforce ordinances?
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How does that work? I think it depends on what the ordinance is about and to
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where, who would enforce it.
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You know, if you're, say it's for tall grass, that's code enforcement.
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And, you know, if somebody calls to complain on tall grass, which is in our
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ordinance, that's planning department.
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Right. If it's something related to there's a car been parked for a long time
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and it's got expired tags and it's got the wheels and tires are flat, that would be police.
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So I think it just depends on.
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What issue you're looking at in the ordinance. How serious or how.
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What is particularly affecting. Right. Yeah. That makes sense.
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Yeah. And it could be, I mean, it could be anything.
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It could be absolutely anything. So you would just have to look at the ordinance.
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And most of the times in the ordinances, it will say who is responsible for
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enforcing that ordinance. Yes. Cool.
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So let's walk through like how you would read the code.
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We know because we get updated ordinances and all of us have to keep them on
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hand and refer to them all the time.
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We have old school books of ordinances that we update, but we also have when
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it's codified, which means it's kind of official, it goes on our website,
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right? And it's electronically accessed.
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So kind of walk everybody through how you would access that or search it and
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how you would kind of read the code of ordinances because it can get confusing
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if you're not doing it all the time. It can get confusing.
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So I keep it updated really on a yearly basis the cut of ordinances you're kind
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of looking back a year so I just finished up the summer I did the year 2025,
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okay so you send that to the publishing company they do it they codify everything
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put it in the code of ordinances so it's all up to date each section, because the ordinances,
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that are being codified are the ones that were approved by the Board of Commissioners that year.
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So that has to be incorporated into that Code of Ordinances.
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So we have the code that's on the website. I keep it updated.
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So all you have to do is go on to the Code of Ordinances. It's broken down by
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chapter. You may not know exactly exactly.
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Where you're what you're looking for is in a chapter but you can search within that chapter within,
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the section and then there's chapters within a section you could search like
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a like a word you know you could search a word that would pull up tall grass
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you can put it in there and see what the regulations or rules are for tall grass
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or animals you know chickens or whatever whatever,
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whatever you want to search for you can pull it up um.
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And then you should be it should refer you to that specific ordinance,
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or there might be a couple of times that it's through the code of ordinances.
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So you would just have to look to see exactly what you're looking for.
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And then I also have on the website the non-codified, which are the ones we're currently doing.
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So those are listed, and I do have copies too. So if you click on them,
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you can actually see a copy of the ordinance that was just passed.
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And that's on the website as well. And you just, I have the number,
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the ordinance number, and I have just a brief description of what it is.
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Yeah. So they kind of know what's coming. That's what's coming.
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So that's what we're doing right now.
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And there's anticipation and that will be officially approved. But it is a law.
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It's a law already. Once the Board of Commissioners adopt it and I get it published, it's a law.
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So even the non-codified is a law, but it has to be codified. for the next year.
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And so it's a yearly thing that you update everything. And so residents can
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access the code anytime. Yes, anytime. Anytime they want to.
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It's online. It's on our website.
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What do they do if they still can't figure it out? It's can't figure it out. Call me or email me.
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If you'd rather do email, I can see maxwell at frankfurt.ky.gov.
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And just email me. I can look it up. Tell me what you want. I can look it up
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for you. I can email it back to you.
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I could mail it back to you, whatever you'd like. But I've done that several times for people.
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Sometimes it can be a little hard to navigate.
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So if you have issues you just need to let me know and I'll look it up and take
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care of it for you. That's good.
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This is kind of just like your opinion question.
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Why should the average Frankfurt resident care about the code ordinance?
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Why should it be important for them? Well, I mean I feel like it should be important.
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They've been passed throughout the years and these are laws that affect citizens
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of the city of Frankfurt.
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Right. So if you want to be engaged in city government, you can look at the
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code of ordinances or if you're just searching for something.
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But I feel like it would be important to you then because it is a law and they
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may not want to necessarily complain about something, but they may just want to look at something.
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Can residents participate in the process? Like making an ordinance?
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They can. How can they do So if they want to come to a meeting,
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if they want to suggest something, or if they have seen an ordinance on an agenda
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that they're questioning, they're not quite sure about it.
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We have citizens comments at the beginning of each meeting. Okay.
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The Board of Commissioners meetings, they can come. They can speak for five minutes.
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So they could bring up a new idea of something that they have that they want to do.
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Or they could also say, you know, I could see this ordinance on your agenda.
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I want to know a little, can you explain a little bit more about it? Right. And what...
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You know, I don't agree with it or I want more information on it.
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So the Board of Commission, like official meetings are on our website,
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on the city website, on the calendar. So you can find when they're scheduled,
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three or five, normally on Mondays, second and fourth. It's the second, fourth Mondays.
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Yes. And they can come to any of those at the beginning of the meeting.
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So you got to be there on time.
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At the beginning of the meeting, there's citizen comment section.
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That's right. So that's the best time to kind of express your opinion to Mayor, Commission.
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You can do it that way. And if you're not comfortable with that,
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you could always email, you know, email staff. And you'll pass it along to them.
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And I can pass along to them or, you know, staff, Jason, which is city manager,
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uh, Laura, which is the city attorney.
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We can all kind of gather our thoughts together and, um, get back to the citizen.
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Yeah. If it's something, well, we're not sure right now, you know,
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we're going to talk to the board, um, or however they'd like to do it.
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They can email, they could come in and talk to somebody. And the city website's
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great. So like all the staff is listed on there. I know in all of our contact
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information. Yes. So specific to a certain area, whether it's streets or parks
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or whatever, you're welcome to email that staff also. Yes, of course.
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And ask them. Of course. And we communicate with you and, you know,
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we can figure it out from that way too. Yeah. And sometimes I'm the liaison
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between staff and the board sometimes, you know, to kind of get everybody in touch with each other.
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But, yeah, citizens can get involved and they should be involved if they're
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concerned about a particular issue and want to bring that up.
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Then I think it's great that citizens get Yeah. Have an opinion. Yeah.
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I think you already answered this, but how often are ordinances updated?
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Does it count when you do it yearly or like, I know ordinances can be on any
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agenda. Do those just accumulate or? So after every agenda, I have to number
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them and get them published.
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So then from there, I just keep them
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added to the website. Those are the non-codified. But they're still a law.
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After the board approves it. After the board approves it and I publish it,
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there's still a law. That's when it goes out on the website.
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So they're updated however often we have a commission meeting if there's an
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ordinance on the agenda. That's correct.
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And that's a public document, too, so people can access the agenda and see the
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ordinance? Yes. You can see what the ordinance is about.
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It'll give you the title and summary. If you want more information,
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you can always contact me.
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And I can even send you a copy of the ordinance if you'd like.
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Yeah. And then, as we said, the code of ordinances is updated on a yearly basis.
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And we're always a year behind. Cool.
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So if Frank Fordians have questions about cracking the code,
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they need to see you, email you, call you. Yes. Buy and share me.
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Right. Give her some time to get back to you.
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She's a busy lady. If she doesn't answer you that day, give her a little bit
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of time. She's got a lot going on. I do try to answer everybody.
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Thanks so much for doing this with me today. You have anything else you think
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people should know, citizens should understand? It's a crazy,
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confusing process, but it's...
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It gets the job done. It does get the job done. And I know it is crazy,
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but I just encourage people to reach out if you don't understand.
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And I can help you the best I can. We want you to be involved.
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We want citizens to understand their government. Of course. We want citizens
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to call or come talk to us or email.
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I'm always responsive by email if you don't get an answer the first day,
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which I do strive to do. But if not, I will get back to you.
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Yes, I get a lot of emails, too. So, yeah, she'll get back to you. Yeah. Okay.
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This is my favorite part of the show. We do this. It's Frankfurt Rapid Fire.
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So, as a fellow Frank Floridian, we want to hear some of your takes on the town.
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Okay. So, no business. This is just fun right now. This is fun right now.
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When I say go, I'll ask you a question. You give me the first answer that comes
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to mind. You can explain if you want to, but you don't have to.
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But we kind of get to see inside of you what Charmaine thinks about Frankfurt. Okay.
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Okay, let's go. Okay. Favorite dinner spot in Frankfurt?
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Honestly, I love Lentenys. Oh, I do too. I grew up. I grew up.
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It was a go way back. It was Pasquale's. Yeah. Years ago.
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My favorite, favorite. When we came back from Florida, that's one of the first places we went to.
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And I couldn't believe it was all the same. Like the food tasted exactly the
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same I remembered as a kid. You know, and of course, my husband and son had
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never had it. But it's just it's just one of those places. I just love it.
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I think everybody that's a real thing for you has had Linnies.
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Yes, I think so. It needs to have Linnies. It needs to. If you haven't had Linnies,
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you need to go have a Stromboli.
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Mine is stuffed shells and garlic bread. Okay. Well, okay, but mine's a Stromboli.
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We love us some Linnies, clearly. I do love some Linnies. Shout out to Linnies. Okay.
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Your favorite. Oh, this is a hard one. Your favorite city ordinance. Oh, my.
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So the only thing I could come up with, because there's so many. um,
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I was thinking the administrative section of the ordinances,
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which lays out the city clerk's responsibilities.
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I don't know. That's helpful for you, isn't it? I mean, it's helpful for me.
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That's helpful for you. That's a hard one. That's the best one.
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I did not make these questions, by the way. These favorite favorites still blame
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on me. Okay, I'm not. This next one may be harder. You better tread lightly with this one.
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What is your favorite city department?
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I am the deputy director for the parks department. I'm just shouting at myself.
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Well, I'll have to say city manager department. I'll give it to you.
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Because that's the department that I'm in. So I just have a lot of favorites.
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And actually, all departments are my favorites. I mean, I work with everybody.
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Like your children. You have no favorites, right? Yeah, it's like all my kids. I mean, yeah.
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And to be honest, out of college, when I met you, I started in the city manager's
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office. And so I was off-bought, too. Yeah. I'm right there with you.
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City manager is a really great place to be.
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B. Favorite season in Frankfurt?
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You'll kill me, but I'm going to say fall. That's okay.
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Because I love the changing of the leaves. I do like fall, but I struggle with the cold.
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I know. Well, I say cold most of the time, but then I can pull my sweaters out,
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my boots out, all that stuff.
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It is a good atmosphere. The leaves and the atmosphere. Fall makes me happy.
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Pumpkin spice and all the stuff. Yes. Okay.
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Funniest City Hall memory.
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You've been here a little while, so you've got to think back.
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What's the funniest one? All right. Jeez.
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I have to think more recent, though, because I.
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Watch what you say. I'm too ancient.
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Or my granddaughter says I'm classic. Yeah, you are. I'm not old.
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I'm classic. You're classic. So I have to say it was the city manager and assistant
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city manager dressed up at our Christmas luncheon.
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And they dressed up as the wet bandits from Home Loan. That was the best.
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And they looked so smacked like that.
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They looked the part really well. They looked the parts really well.
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They looked like criminals. They did.
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And it was just great. It was hilarious. They really put a lot of thought and
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effort into their costumes and stuff. And it was just, it was great.
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We should sit down and write a book for like city hall memories.
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It would be so entertaining.
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The city attorney always jokes that she has started a book when she first started.
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It's called Capital Punishment.
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So anytime something crazy happens, she's like, let's go on in my book.
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She's going in her book. Or we need, like, a reality show.
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I don't know if people, they wouldn't believe it. Oh, they'd get sucked in.
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It would be a Netflix documentary.
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It would definitely be a Netflix documentary. Oh, geez.
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Okay, thank you so much for coming and hanging out with me. Thank you.
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We'll catch you again next week on the City of Frankfurt podcast.
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