Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Guest Host: Rebecca Kase, LCSW. Animal Assisted Therapy and Trauma Healing

Transcript

Guest Host: Rebecca Kase, LCSW. Animal Assisted Therapy and Trauma Healing · The Trauma Therapist

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to the special guest host series of The Trauma
0:06
Speaker 1: Therapist Podcast, where I'm going to be handing over the
0:08
Speaker 1: mic to some incredible guest hosts. In each episode, you'll
0:12
Speaker 1: hear fresh perspectives and unique insights to inform and inspire
0:16
Speaker 1: you in all the while keeping the heart of this
0:19
Speaker 1: podcast alive. So sit back and enjoy.
0:23
Speaker 2: Super excited to have Rebecca Case sit in for me today.
0:27
Speaker 2: When I conceived of the series, she was definitely one
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Speaker 2: of the ones who I had in mind who I
0:31
Speaker 2: hoped would say yes. I've just always been inspired by
0:36
Speaker 2: her wisdom, her dedication to helping mental health therapists and
0:40
Speaker 2: the EMDR community, and her passion sharing great hands today,
0:45
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.
0:51
Speaker 3: Hey, Hey everyone, this is Rebecca Case filling in as
0:55
Speaker 3: your host this week. I'm a licensed clinical social worker,
0:58
Speaker 3: EMDR trainer and the owner of the Trauma Therapist Institute
1:02
Speaker 3: where we focus on AMDR training and trauma training for psychotherapists,
1:06
Speaker 3: and today I am interviewing my colleague, one of my
1:10
Speaker 3: besties as well, Alison Leslie.
1:13
Speaker 4: So.
1:14
Speaker 3: Allison is a licensed clinical social worker. She's also an
1:17
Speaker 3: EMDR trainer and consultant. She is a sematic experiencing practitioner,
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Speaker 3: and she's also an expert in animal assisted therapy. She
1:26
Speaker 3: is quite a unicorn with a lot of accolades there so.
1:31
Speaker 3: She also is recently the published contributor in a chapter
1:35
Speaker 3: on trauma and Animal assisted Therapy the book Trauma and
1:39
Speaker 3: Animal Assisted Therapy, in which she focused on the integration
1:43
Speaker 3: of animal assisted therapy, sematic experiencing, and AMD ART, which
1:47
Speaker 3: is why I invited.
1:48
Speaker 5: Her here today. Hi Allison, thanks for being here.
1:52
Speaker 4: Hi Rebecca, thanks for having me.
1:55
Speaker 3: So you have quite the resume that I just shared.
1:57
Speaker 3: Is there anything that I missed or anything else? So
2:00
Speaker 3: you want listen nurse to know about yourself personally or professionally,
2:04
Speaker 3: you know, I think.
2:05
Speaker 4: Just that I am also just continuing to learn and
2:09
Speaker 4: grow and that it's been such an honor to be
2:11
Speaker 4: able to start my career in including animals and the
2:16
Speaker 4: work that I do which has come so full circle
2:19
Speaker 4: and understanding why animals are so important in all of
2:22
Speaker 4: our lives and can be such healing guides for us.
2:25
Speaker 4: But gosh, I guess I'll just introduce my four legged
2:28
Speaker 4: animal family members. So I currently have, well, I have
2:33
Speaker 4: two legged family members, my two kids. But I also
2:37
Speaker 4: have a dog and a cat and a bearded dragon,
2:41
Speaker 4: and so we have so many different animals in our lives.
2:43
Speaker 4: And yeah, I guess also just being in nature is
2:47
Speaker 4: such a healing part of my life as well. So
2:51
Speaker 4: tell us a.
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Speaker 5: Little bit about where your love for animal assisted therapy
2:57
Speaker 5: really started. How did you start that journey?
2:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Well, I think animals have always been a
3:02
Speaker 4: big part of my life. My grandpa actually used to
3:04
Speaker 4: take us to the Humane Society when we were little
3:07
Speaker 4: to like socialize with the cats and hang out. So
3:10
Speaker 4: and we had a dog growing up. So I've always
3:12
Speaker 4: loved animals. But my undergrad degree was an outdoor recreation
3:16
Speaker 4: and I always wanted to do like outdoor adventure stuff
3:19
Speaker 4: with children, and so when I went to get my
3:23
Speaker 4: master's degree, I no longer necessarily wanted to live in
3:27
Speaker 4: the woods and do that, but I wanted to do
3:29
Speaker 4: experiential work, and so my graduate program at the University
3:34
Speaker 4: of Denver had an animal assisted therapy certificate, and I thought, gosh,
3:39
Speaker 4: what a fun way to help people heal, specially children,
3:43
Speaker 4: and still not have to do talk therapy. That really
3:46
Speaker 4: working with the animals allowed us to be up and
3:49
Speaker 4: moving and experiencing things, and so the experiential aspect of
3:54
Speaker 4: being with really with animals, who are such an important
3:59
Speaker 4: mirror for us, right, we get to be our best
4:02
Speaker 4: selves with that self gets to show up when we're
4:05
Speaker 4: with animals, And it just became this really healing, super
4:09
Speaker 4: fun thing to do with the kids that I was
4:12
Speaker 4: working with to be able to spend time with my
4:15
Speaker 4: therapy dog. And the more I kind of leaned into
4:19
Speaker 4: that graduate school, the more I became aware of just
4:24
Speaker 4: how impactful being with animals were.
4:28
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, being an animal assistant therapist is probably
4:31
Speaker 3: really fun because you get to take your best eat
4:33
Speaker 3: with you to work every day.
4:34
Speaker 5: Huh, Yeah, it is.
4:36
Speaker 4: And it's so interesting because it's not even that I
4:40
Speaker 4: get to do that, but I get to see people's
4:43
Speaker 4: true selves show up, sometimes for the very first time.
4:47
Speaker 4: So I always remember this. I worked with these siblings
4:52
Speaker 4: and the very first time I ever met them and
4:54
Speaker 4: their mom. I remember one kid he ran over and
4:57
Speaker 4: he just kicked his mom out of nowhere, and I
5:00
Speaker 4: was like, aw, that's was an interesting interaction to observe.
5:05
Speaker 4: And when I started seeing them with my therapy dog
5:07
Speaker 4: with Marlee, I never saw any of that violence. I
5:11
Speaker 4: saw like these kids who were so well behaved and
5:14
Speaker 4: so caring and so empathetic and who really wanted to
5:18
Speaker 4: make sure that the setting we were in and that
5:20
Speaker 4: the environment that we were bringing Marlee into, my therapy
5:24
Speaker 4: dog at the time, was really safe for him. They
5:26
Speaker 4: used safe hands around him, their language was soft, and
5:30
Speaker 4: I remember talking to one of their other you know,
5:32
Speaker 4: like treatment providers, and she said, have they tried to
5:35
Speaker 4: punch you yet? And I was like, what, No, Like,
5:40
Speaker 4: I don't see any of that when they're with me
5:43
Speaker 4: and with Marlee because they can put those defenses down.
5:48
Speaker 4: They could really show up with Marlee as who they
5:52
Speaker 4: really were because there was no worry that they were
5:55
Speaker 4: going to get harmed or that they were being too
5:57
Speaker 4: vulnerable or things were unsafe because now I know, right
6:00
Speaker 4: their neurobiology was literally shifting into safety with the animal
6:06
Speaker 4: near him, with near them, and so I'll always remember that,
6:10
Speaker 4: and it was really just like this aha moment of
6:14
Speaker 4: being with animals brings out people's best self. And now
6:18
Speaker 4: that I learned somatic experiencing an AMDR, I understand the
6:21
Speaker 4: neurobiology of why that was. And I, you know, I
6:24
Speaker 4: was a twenty something year old didn't not know that information.
6:30
Speaker 3: I recently saw something on Instagram. It was some article
6:35
Speaker 3: or some piece talking about prison facility that everybody adopted
6:42
Speaker 3: a cat.
6:43
Speaker 5: And they were talking.
6:45
Speaker 3: About how impactful adopting a cat for those inmates was
6:50
Speaker 3: for each of their mental health and how it also
6:54
Speaker 3: increased or decreased the likelihood of recidivism because part of
6:59
Speaker 3: you know, the being released from prisoners, you also get
7:02
Speaker 3: released with your cat. And so one of the inmates
7:04
Speaker 3: was talking about, you know, like I can't come back
7:07
Speaker 3: here because I have this creature that depends on me,
7:11
Speaker 3: and so I need to be successful when I integrate
7:15
Speaker 3: back into the community.
7:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so much research on that, especially with older adults.
7:20
Speaker 4: When when something we are some a being that we
7:23
Speaker 4: really love and that shows us love right again, it's
7:26
Speaker 4: this unconditional if you're kind to them, they're going to
7:29
Speaker 4: show that kindness right back to you, right. And the
7:34
Speaker 4: way that we become like intertwined in each other's lives
7:38
Speaker 4: is you support me and I support you. But if
7:40
Speaker 4: I'm not here, who will support this cat?
7:43
Speaker 3: Right?
7:43
Speaker 4: And so this is this identification that I matter in
7:45
Speaker 4: the world and that there's a living being that's really
7:48
Speaker 4: relying on me to be stable, to have resources that
7:53
Speaker 4: I can care for them. It's the same reason why
7:55
Speaker 4: people who you know are unhoused and they have their
7:59
Speaker 4: pets well above and be all give all their stuff
8:02
Speaker 4: to their pets first. They get money. I mean, research
8:06
Speaker 4: will show again and again and again that those animals
8:09
Speaker 4: who are on the street with them unhoused will get
8:13
Speaker 4: their resources first.
8:18
Speaker 3: So tell us a bit about how you integrate animals
8:23
Speaker 3: just a therapy, somatic experiencing and EMDR like, what does.
8:27
Speaker 5: That look like?
8:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think a lot of it looks like
8:32
Speaker 4: having the ability to slow down and really start to
8:38
Speaker 4: stay curious to what's happening and inside of you so
8:42
Speaker 4: that you can see what's happening with that animal. Right.
8:45
Speaker 4: And so when we think about whether it's you know,
8:48
Speaker 4: I like to open the conversation to not just therapy
8:51
Speaker 4: animals that are in our office, but as therapists, how
8:54
Speaker 4: we help our client's companion animals be a part of
8:59
Speaker 4: their healing world. Right. And so when we're with an animal,
9:03
Speaker 4: whether that's an animal in the office or you're talking
9:05
Speaker 4: about somebody's companion animal, it's inviting them to slow down
9:09
Speaker 4: and stay curious to the interaction that you're having with
9:13
Speaker 4: that animal, and oftentimes when we slow it down enough,
9:17
Speaker 4: we can start to stay curious to the felt sense
9:19
Speaker 4: of that. Right. And so a lot of like somatic
9:23
Speaker 4: work and the beginnings kind of stepping stones of somatic
9:27
Speaker 4: experiencing is starting to understand and feel the felt sense
9:31
Speaker 4: not just the uncomfortable experiences of our lives, but being
9:36
Speaker 4: able to start to tune in or like I like
9:38
Speaker 4: to say, like kind of tune our ear and find
9:41
Speaker 4: those whispers of gentle or comfortable or neutral sensations and
9:48
Speaker 4: growing the capacity to sit with those for longer and
9:51
Speaker 4: longer periods of time. And I think that really lends
9:54
Speaker 4: itself to those Phase two preparations for EMDR because if
9:58
Speaker 4: our clients cannot have the capacity to sit with comfort
10:03
Speaker 4: and to know that that's like possible, right, then how
10:06
Speaker 4: are we going to invite them to sit with uncomfort
10:08
Speaker 4: if there's nothing to come back to. So I think
10:11
Speaker 4: the cornerstone of so much of the healing work we
10:13
Speaker 4: do can begin. And it sounds kind of different because
10:17
Speaker 4: you think you go to therapy to like talk about
10:18
Speaker 4: the yuck, But I really want people to start to
10:21
Speaker 4: come into my therapeutic space and start to learn how
10:24
Speaker 4: to stay curious to the comfort, to the good that's
10:29
Speaker 4: in and around them. And oftentimes our animals provide that relationship,
10:33
Speaker 4: that bi directional experience of I'm loved, I'm worthy, I'm important,
10:40
Speaker 4: I can have boundaries like all these things that are
10:43
Speaker 4: sometimes challenging in human to human relationships are often right
10:47
Speaker 4: there in front of us in our companion animal relationships
10:52
Speaker 4: when we're treating that companion animal with respect and with
10:58
Speaker 4: bi directional experience. Is that both of our needs can
11:02
Speaker 4: get met in these experiences, whatever they may be, and
11:06
Speaker 4: when we can lend ourselves to that what do you
11:09
Speaker 4: need and what do I need? There's a reciprocal relationship
11:13
Speaker 4: in that. Again that is often very new for so
11:16
Speaker 4: many of our clients. So saying, gosh, as you notice
11:19
Speaker 4: that what you feel inside, do you feel it on
11:20
Speaker 4: the skin? Does that land somewhere inside? And is there
11:23
Speaker 4: a possibility to sit with that for just an extra
11:25
Speaker 4: moment and see what happens next and then watching that
11:29
Speaker 4: grow slowly over time.
11:33
Speaker 3: You pointed something out to me a while ago that
11:37
Speaker 3: sticks with me every day I interact with my pets,
11:41
Speaker 3: especially especially one of my.
11:44
Speaker 5: Dogs that is just always very excited to see me.
11:47
Speaker 4: So I have two dogs.
11:49
Speaker 3: One doesn't really care when I come home, the other
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Speaker 3: one is always like right there and just so thrilled.
11:53
Speaker 3: And then I have two cats, and you had shared
11:56
Speaker 3: how impactful it is that you know, like when we
11:59
Speaker 3: come home, that animal may be just overwhelmingly excited to
12:04
Speaker 3: see us, and it's showing us with all of these
12:06
Speaker 3: tells and signs, right, and like that's something dependable, where
12:11
Speaker 3: like I don't have children, but you've shared kind of
12:13
Speaker 3: what your experiences with your kids of sometimes are right.
12:16
Speaker 5: They don't need to acknowledge that you walked in the door,
12:18
Speaker 5: but that my dog.
12:20
Speaker 3: Mango, every time I come home, even if like I
12:23
Speaker 3: just walked to the mailbox and that was it, you know,
12:25
Speaker 3: I've been gone for you know, two minutes, is just
12:29
Speaker 3: like it's the greatest thing in the world that I
12:32
Speaker 3: just came back home. And and you pointing that out
12:36
Speaker 3: something that I think that when we have creatures in
12:39
Speaker 3: our lives, whether it's you know, our partner or our friends,
12:42
Speaker 3: or our kids or pets, these everyday interactions we can
12:45
Speaker 3: kind of take for granted. But now I really pause
12:49
Speaker 3: in those moments and I allow my nervous system to
12:51
Speaker 3: take in, like, what is it like that mangoes but
12:54
Speaker 3: is just wiggling so much.
12:55
Speaker 5: And you know her smile and you know she's jumping up.
13:00
Speaker 3: To hug me, and like I really pause and lean
13:03
Speaker 3: into that, and it's like such a precious moment that
13:07
Speaker 3: happens all the time, multiple times a day, and I
13:12
Speaker 3: wasn't really paying attention to it.
13:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks so much for naming that. And I think
13:17
Speaker 4: it's it's that is that we don't pay attention to it, right,
13:20
Speaker 4: But if we can start to include our companion animals,
13:25
Speaker 4: these family members that we've brought into our lives right
13:29
Speaker 4: with intention, and we can start to have intention in
13:33
Speaker 4: that relationship where it's not just oh, I come home
13:35
Speaker 4: and I put my dog really quickly and then I
13:36
Speaker 4: like put my stuff down and I move, you know,
13:39
Speaker 4: fast into the rest of my whatever experiences. But giving
13:42
Speaker 4: ourselves permission to slow that down right again, I think
13:46
Speaker 4: so much of what I learned in somatic experiencing, just
13:49
Speaker 4: as you know a learner in it, is the importance
13:52
Speaker 4: of slowing down and moving with intention and curiosity. And
13:59
Speaker 4: so now when you know now I hear you say
14:00
Speaker 4: like I come home and I'm curious, Oh there's Mango,
14:03
Speaker 4: and I can watch there but you know, scooting around,
14:06
Speaker 4: and I can start to allow myself to feel the
14:09
Speaker 4: love that they're giving to me, that they're showing to me.
14:12
Speaker 4: And I think that's another aspect of it, is giving
14:14
Speaker 4: ourselves permission to receive what's right there in front of us.
14:19
Speaker 4: And for so many of our clients, receiving that is
14:24
Speaker 4: sometimes the biggest challenge. And so but it's believable what
14:27
Speaker 4: it's coming from the animal, right It's like, you believe Mango.
14:31
Speaker 4: You don't think Mango's faking it right there. Sometimes you
14:34
Speaker 4: can think that with your human to human relationships, but
14:38
Speaker 4: starting with the animals and starting to receive that, I
14:41
Speaker 4: truly believe this moment I am loved. Talk about you know,
14:46
Speaker 4: when we go back to EMDR like the building of
14:47
Speaker 4: neural networks and the importance of having that adaptive neural
14:52
Speaker 4: network of I believe I'm lovable. That might be the
14:56
Speaker 4: very first time that your client has actually believed that
15:00
Speaker 4: to be true. And then think of all the resources
15:03
Speaker 4: you can do around that when every time, even if
15:05
Speaker 4: you just go to the mailbox, your animal is that
15:09
Speaker 4: excited to see you how many moments, how many how
15:12
Speaker 4: strong that adaptive network could get if you really allowed
15:16
Speaker 4: yourself to pay attention to it every single time.
15:22
Speaker 3: So I also can't help but think about poly bagel
15:24
Speaker 3: theory as it applies to all this. So Alison and
15:27
Speaker 3: I are both experts in poly Bagel theory, and you know,
15:31
Speaker 3: I certainly think a lot about the social engagement system,
15:36
Speaker 3: especially when it comes to dogs, right, because dogs have
15:38
Speaker 3: such strong social engagement systems.
15:40
Speaker 5: So do birds cats.
15:44
Speaker 3: I don't know what Porgius might say about cats in
15:46
Speaker 3: our social engagements. They have one, but they're just kind
15:48
Speaker 3: of like they're so independent, there's like so self actualized.
15:53
Speaker 5: I don't care what you think about.
15:58
Speaker 3: But dogs, especially right, that social engagement system that we
16:01
Speaker 3: see when you know, we're dysregulated, maybe we're crying and
16:04
Speaker 3: our dog comes over and you know, tries to console us,
16:07
Speaker 3: or you know, we engage with our pet to you know, train,
16:12
Speaker 3: or to play a game, or to play the sniff game.
16:14
Speaker 5: Or something like that.
16:15
Speaker 3: Right, Like you get that extreme delight usually from your dog,
16:19
Speaker 3: maybe not all the time, and just when we can
16:23
Speaker 3: engage in that way, it really helps us connect to
16:26
Speaker 3: our ventral pathway, if there's those cues of safety which
16:28
Speaker 3: hopefully we're getting.
16:29
Speaker 5: From our from our dog.
16:31
Speaker 3: Right, I'm just curious what you think on polyvagel theory
16:35
Speaker 3: and animal assisted therapy and all the intersectionality.
16:39
Speaker 4: I think it's, you know, one of those things. There's
16:41
Speaker 4: so much more research behind now that when we spend
16:44
Speaker 4: time with animals, right, our physiology like literally is changing,
16:49
Speaker 4: and so our heart rate is decreased, our blood pressure
16:52
Speaker 4: is going down, and that love hormone oxytocin is released, right,
16:57
Speaker 4: and those are all components of being in that ventral
16:59
Speaker 4: space and our social engagement, right, our ability to connect
17:03
Speaker 4: is wider. And so when we spend time with animals
17:07
Speaker 4: and we have our physiological experiences that are kind of
17:11
Speaker 4: going back to homeostasis kind of where they could or
17:14
Speaker 4: should be, so that we're in our optimal level of experiencing,
17:18
Speaker 4: of grounded, of safe, our animals really bring us into
17:21
Speaker 4: that space. And our animals can also be guides to
17:25
Speaker 4: that that what we're feeling dsregulated. I can really look
17:28
Speaker 4: over and see, oh, you know, Harry is literally a
17:32
Speaker 4: sleep right here. Like that happened in one of my
17:34
Speaker 4: sessions the other day, my client could really orient and
17:37
Speaker 4: be like, well, Harry is a sleep right now, that
17:39
Speaker 4: must mean that right here, right now, everything's okay. Harry's
17:43
Speaker 4: my dog right now, and he comes to the office
17:46
Speaker 4: every so often. And there's like a really fancy word
17:49
Speaker 4: for that. It's called our bio affiliative safety. It's coined
17:53
Speaker 4: by Phil Tedeski and Molly Jenkins. But it is allowing
17:58
Speaker 4: the nervous system of our pets, of our comp animals
18:01
Speaker 4: to be a guide to ours. So that if I'm,
18:05
Speaker 4: you know, outside of my window of tolerance, but I
18:07
Speaker 4: have this animal right here who is asleep, that must
18:11
Speaker 4: mean right here, right now, there is no danger because
18:13
Speaker 4: they don't override their nervous systems. Right, Animals do not
18:16
Speaker 4: override their nervous system They're not like, oh, I feel scared,
18:20
Speaker 4: but I'm not going to show it, Like if your
18:22
Speaker 4: dog is scared, you're going to know that. Right a
18:24
Speaker 4: storm comes through my in law, my mother in law
18:27
Speaker 4: and my sister in law, they have their dog, Shelby,
18:30
Speaker 4: and anytime it starts to even thunder, they put blankets
18:34
Speaker 4: and pillows in the bathtub because they know that's where
18:36
Speaker 4: Shelby's going to end up. Right, So, they're like, Okay,
18:39
Speaker 4: well we'll take care of Shelby. But it's because Shelby
18:41
Speaker 4: doesn't have the forethought to be like, oh, is it
18:43
Speaker 4: going to be embarrassing if I'm hiding in the bathtub
18:46
Speaker 4: as a dog. Lobby doesn't care. She'll be like, no,
18:49
Speaker 4: I'm going to go to the bathtub because that's where
18:51
Speaker 4: I feel safest.
18:52
Speaker 3: Right.
18:53
Speaker 4: But as humans, we often override our nervous systems, and
18:56
Speaker 4: so if we can look to our pets to see
18:58
Speaker 4: what's their neurobiology telling us with curiosity, then that can
19:03
Speaker 4: be a guide. And I also often just think about
19:06
Speaker 4: when we are with our animals, even people on the
19:09
Speaker 4: street who are coming towards us, their neurobiology changes, right,
19:13
Speaker 4: their social engagement if they like dogs. Right, not everybody,
19:16
Speaker 4: because not everybody likes dogs or has had good experiences
19:19
Speaker 4: with dogs, or culture has you know, really brought in.
19:22
Speaker 4: Animals can be included in our lives in this way.
19:27
Speaker 4: But for those who have, that is a bright spot
19:30
Speaker 4: I made. You know, you don't think about making friends
19:33
Speaker 4: during COVID, especially during the lockdown, but I did because
19:37
Speaker 4: I would see these people on this walk that I
19:39
Speaker 4: would take, and you know, we'd socially distanced. And then
19:42
Speaker 4: one day he brought out a mask and from afar
19:45
Speaker 4: he said, I brought a mask today, Is it okay
19:48
Speaker 4: if I say hi to your dog? And I was like,
19:50
Speaker 4: of course, And so then the next day I brought
19:52
Speaker 4: my mask, and then I learned that they lived down
19:55
Speaker 4: the street from me, and then we became friends. And
19:57
Speaker 4: you know, if they'd go to town, I'd drive on
19:59
Speaker 4: their driveway to make it look like somebody was home
20:02
Speaker 4: when it snowed, like they could get my mail, and
20:04
Speaker 4: like that would have never happened, especially during that period
20:09
Speaker 4: of time, if I had not been walking with Harry.
20:13
Speaker 4: But they loved dogs and they needed social connection too,
20:16
Speaker 4: and so the bridge of my animal really facilitated that experience.
20:24
Speaker 4: And so there's so much that happens in that when
20:26
Speaker 4: we're with our animals, and it opens us up to
20:30
Speaker 4: new relationships that we probably would have missed out on.
20:35
Speaker 4: I know I would have missed out on had you know,
20:37
Speaker 4: Harry happened with me.
20:39
Speaker 3: Just so important when we think about some of the
20:41
Speaker 3: isolating symptoms of trauma, right and the constricting symptoms of right.
20:46
Speaker 5: I don't want to leave my house. I don't want
20:47
Speaker 5: to get out of bed.
20:48
Speaker 3: Certainly your animal can be a reason to get out
20:51
Speaker 3: of bed, depending on how dependent it is on you
20:53
Speaker 3: or not, right, But yeah, just those interpersonal connection opportunities
20:58
Speaker 3: that arise. So I recognize that there can be a
21:03
Speaker 3: large array of animals that can be animal assisted therapy companions.
21:09
Speaker 5: I guess what we all know of dogs, of course,
21:12
Speaker 5: But what would you say are some of the other
21:16
Speaker 5: animals that serve in this profession?
21:20
Speaker 4: I think, you know, it really is such a wide gamut.
21:23
Speaker 4: You're really just staying curious, does my animal want to
21:26
Speaker 4: be in these experiences? And so often animals that are
21:31
Speaker 4: registered and as therapy animals you know are obviously dogs,
21:35
Speaker 4: but cats can be registered, oftentimes small like smaller animals
21:39
Speaker 4: like rabbits or guinea pigs. But there's also farm animals
21:44
Speaker 4: that you know, Equine assisted psychotherapy is huge in the
21:48
Speaker 4: field of trauma and working with developmental disabilities, and there's
21:55
Speaker 4: so many farms that are therapeutic spaces, so goats and chickens.
22:00
Speaker 4: And it's really more about how are we setting up
22:03
Speaker 4: this experience so it's beneficial for the animal and the human,
22:06
Speaker 4: Because if it's not beneficial for the animal, it ultimately
22:09
Speaker 4: will not be beneficial for the human because the animal
22:13
Speaker 4: will not be in their best self right or wanting
22:16
Speaker 4: to do that, and then that's going to impact again
22:18
Speaker 4: that like therapeutic space or that felt sense between right between.
22:24
Speaker 4: We think about that in polyveagel theory as well. You know,
22:27
Speaker 4: we have that extraception. What are we seeing out here
22:30
Speaker 4: and you're either viewing signs that the animal is safe
22:33
Speaker 4: and feeling good or the animal is not and they
22:36
Speaker 4: don't want to be there, and you can see that
22:38
Speaker 4: and you can feel that in the in between space,
22:41
Speaker 4: and then you can feel that inside. And so there's
22:45
Speaker 4: so many I mean even now there's you know, you
22:47
Speaker 4: can you can read articles on you know, birds that
22:51
Speaker 4: are part of these therapeutic spaces. Aubrey find who is
22:54
Speaker 4: one of the leaders in the field, will often talk
22:57
Speaker 4: about the birds that he had in his office. Rats
23:01
Speaker 4: are another really interesting therapy animal because there's so much
23:05
Speaker 4: stigma against rats, right that they're dirty or their growth,
23:09
Speaker 4: But rats are ultimately so smart, incredibly social, should never
23:15
Speaker 4: be alone, and so there's so much that you can
23:19
Speaker 4: do with animals who like to be near people and
23:23
Speaker 4: enjoy those types of interactions.
23:28
Speaker 3: So for a therapist who's interested in, you know, getting
23:32
Speaker 3: trained in animal assisted therapy, who's interested in incorporating a
23:37
Speaker 3: pet into their clinical practice, Where do they go?
23:40
Speaker 5: How do they do this?
23:42
Speaker 4: Really good questions. There's a couple of different places. I'd
23:46
Speaker 4: invite people to stay curious. To Pet Partners, which was
23:50
Speaker 4: started as a volunteer program but now has a professional
23:53
Speaker 4: arm of their agency, would be a really good place
23:56
Speaker 4: to start. If you want further like deeper education. The
24:00
Speaker 4: University of Denver has the Institute of the Human Animal
24:03
Speaker 4: Connection i HACK, so that would be a great place
24:07
Speaker 4: if you are interested in play therapy. Resa van Fleet
24:11
Speaker 4: has a program, the International Institute for Animal Assisted Play Therapy.
24:17
Speaker 4: That's a registered program, and there's also other universities. I
24:22
Speaker 4: do programming on that, so I'm an educator in this
24:25
Speaker 4: field as well. But I would really just do your
24:29
Speaker 4: research on, you know, the ethics behind including animals in
24:33
Speaker 4: your practice, because there is it is so much more
24:36
Speaker 4: than just I'm going to bring my friend to work, right,
24:38
Speaker 4: We're really advocating for our animals, and there's a huge
24:42
Speaker 4: ethical component that goes to how we're doing that so
24:46
Speaker 4: that it's in the animal's best interest. I always say,
24:49
Speaker 4: you know you want to first at the very first
24:51
Speaker 4: thing you should ever do is write a job description
24:53
Speaker 4: for your animal. And if that job description of what
24:56
Speaker 4: your animal would want to do, if they got to
24:58
Speaker 4: go to work matches what is possible in your setting,
25:03
Speaker 4: then you are, you know, on the very first steps
25:06
Speaker 4: to making that happen. Like if I was writing a
25:09
Speaker 4: job description for my first dog, Marabell, you know, Marabel's
25:13
Speaker 4: job description would have been like eating trash, laying in
25:16
Speaker 4: the sun, and ignoring people, which was not a great
25:20
Speaker 4: job description for what I'm like, Let's play with children,
25:23
Speaker 4: let's be active, let's run around. And she's like, is
25:25
Speaker 4: there trash anywhere? Can I be stealing food? And when
25:29
Speaker 4: am I going to be left alone? So like they
25:32
Speaker 4: were not a good match. And so I realized, okay,
25:34
Speaker 4: well Marabel's not going to be a therapy animal. And
25:36
Speaker 4: I was lucky enough to be introduced to Marley, who
25:39
Speaker 4: wanted who that job description fit perfectly for play with kids,
25:44
Speaker 4: learn a lot, have fun, and be really active in
25:47
Speaker 4: social like that was Marley's best job ever, And so
25:51
Speaker 4: I would start there. There's some some books you can read,
25:55
Speaker 4: the newest edition, the sixth edition, The Fine Handbook on
25:58
Speaker 4: Animals Just did Therapy came out and that is really
26:02
Speaker 4: like a huge guide. It is what is used in
26:04
Speaker 4: almost all educational practices to really start to hone in
26:10
Speaker 4: on how we do this work in the different cultural
26:14
Speaker 4: and relational aspects of it.
26:17
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
26:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, is there anything else you want to share with listeners?
26:22
Speaker 3: Just on this topic on all the time?
26:25
Speaker 4: I think the last thing I really you know, am
26:28
Speaker 4: on this mission to invite therapists to talk to your clients,
26:35
Speaker 4: the people in your lives about being intentional with the
26:39
Speaker 4: pets that are there. There is this healing being in
26:44
Speaker 4: so many of our clients' homes that as clinicians we
26:47
Speaker 4: completely ignore. We don't ask about on intake, We don't
26:50
Speaker 4: ask about their companion animals growing up, the positive relationships
26:54
Speaker 4: we've had with animals, or the challenging relationships we've had
26:57
Speaker 4: with animals. Right, animal abuse is not something to be ignored.
27:00
Speaker 4: It is very challenging to hear as clinicians, but it
27:04
Speaker 4: also is a part of some of our clients' lives
27:07
Speaker 4: and the fabric that has shaped who they are. Oftentimes
27:11
Speaker 4: it is not because they chose to abuse animals, because
27:13
Speaker 4: they were forced to. And if we don't talk about
27:18
Speaker 4: that or give space to hear about the positive and
27:21
Speaker 4: the uncomfortable or challenging relationships we've had with animals, we
27:24
Speaker 4: are missing a huge window into our clients' lives that
27:27
Speaker 4: can aid in so much healing. So, if you're a
27:30
Speaker 4: clinician listening, you know, ask your clients about their pets.
27:34
Speaker 4: Ask them what they do for fun, How do they
27:37
Speaker 4: know that the pet enjoys these interactions, and start to
27:40
Speaker 4: ask them if they were to slow down, how that
27:42
Speaker 4: feels inside, and what's the message rights If that pet
27:47
Speaker 4: could look into your eyes and tell you one thing
27:49
Speaker 4: about you, what would it be And is there a
27:52
Speaker 4: way to start to lean into that every single day
27:56
Speaker 4: because we all deserve to see ourselves I think through
28:00
Speaker 4: the eyes of our animals if we're doing the relationship right.
28:03
Speaker 3: M Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
28:07
Speaker 5: I really appreciate you on your time.
28:09
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me