Latest / The You Project / #2250 You'd Think We'd Be Better - Patrick Bonello

Transcript

#2250 You'd Think We'd Be Better - Patrick Bonello · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: G'day, team. It's Patrick. It's Tiffany Ann Cook.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: It's us.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: It's the project that's you. It's Friday. Tiff nearly missed
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the boat because her bloke's back home, and I think
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the nocturnal happenings probably just left her in a mild
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: state of exhaustion, and she rocked up two minutes late,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: which is very uncharacteristic. That's your first warning. You've got three. Actually,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I think that might be your second warning. It could
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: even be your third. And what have you got in
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: your hand?
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: I've got a latte in my hand. Really?
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Who made that?
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: I made that. I made my latte.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Are you sure?
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: So your manservant is back in the state?
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: My freezer's back full again with meals for next week
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: when he flies away again. It's also full of your
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: portion of meal prep this week, which will be delivered
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: tomorrow afternoon. Yes.
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: Well and truly, he's back.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I think you meant this afternoon, Friday.
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: Did I say tomorrow?
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Oopsie.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: How's your cognitive function? I think there's an inverse correlation
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: between those nocturnal events. Patrick, good morning. How are you?
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I'm good. I just finished saying that when Tiff puts
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: her glasses on, I reckon her IQ jumps 24 million.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so imagine if she didn't have those on, she'd
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: essentially be a wombat on the podcast.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Eat fruits and leaves.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I think that's a koala.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: No, it's a wombat, isn't it? Eat fruits and leaves.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Isn't it, Tiff? Yeah, I think it is.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: A wombat, yeah.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: A wombat, yeah.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I should be more up to date on our
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Australian wildlife, but okay. Are wombats anywhere else in the
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: world or just are they native to Australia?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Marsupials are pretty well exclusively in Australia. I think there
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: may be a couple of marsupials in South America, but
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Australia basically has the lion's share, which is interesting because
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: a lion isn't a marsupial, but you get what I mean.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I think that's just a metaphor. I'm not sure. What
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: is a metaphor for? Nothing.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Meta. Well, we'll talk about meta later in the show.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Meta. There's a There's a controversial term. Do you know
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: meta is a very, very heavily used word in science
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and research? Like, you know, meta perception, meta cognition, meta analysis. Like,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: it's probably one of the most used prefixes. I met
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: her at a function recently.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Met her at a party and my heart stood still. Da-do-ron-ron-ron, da-do-ron-ron.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: They don't write lyrics like that anymore, do they?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Hey, what do you reckon we'll put in this bit, Brian? Hey, Dave,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I reckon let's write da-do-ron-ron-ron, da-do-ron. Fuck, yeah, that's it.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Nailed it. And the song went to number one and
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: it stayed there for seven weeks.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: And we're talking about it 37 or 57 years after.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Probably 57 years later, yeah.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Or 60.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Now, Patrick, at the top of your list for us
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: to discuss today, there seems like a slight bragging point.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: But this is what people, this is what Brad, or
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: even Patrick sends through. Brad, not so much. But Patrick,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: that's his alter ego. Patrick and Brad send me through
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: a list of kind of talking, fucking hell, put your
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: teeth in. I really need my creatine. I think I'm
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: in creatine deficit. Sends me through talking points with certain
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: kind of topics and headings, and number one is, topic
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: one is Craig was wrong. And then there's a dot point,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: do you use a hand moisturiser? what was the conflict
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: or the disagreement? Oh, Tiff just reaches for her hand moisturizer.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I think probably he's thinking about a slightly different intended use, Tiff.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: But what was the disagreement we had and we had
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: a bet? What was it about? I genuinely cannot remember.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I did write it there for you to read
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: out because I feel that you need to acknowledge the
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: fact that you were wrong.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: But what was the thing that I was wrong about?
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Well, in our last episode, I was ridiculed intensely by
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: you because I was talking about scam websites.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Let's not get too precious. I think we just go
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: back and forth.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: You can always just go back and listen to the episode.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: We were talking about scam websites. The ACCC had come
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: out and said there were scam websites. And I said,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: I was using a website to try to find a
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: fountain pen that I really wanted to buy. But because
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: it was a 25, 30-year-old fountain pen, I had to
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: dig around to try to find a site to find
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: it on. And- One of the sites that I found
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: that was selling the pen that I was desperately looking
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: for ended up being a scam website. So I was
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: drawing it into the story. You know, you give a
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: real-life example, you give a theoretical, and then you give
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: a real-life example. Helps people relate to the story more, Craig.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Anyway, so– I just don't doubt. Do you want to
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: start again from I was looking for a site, a pen?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Well, anyway, short of it is– I was trying to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: explain an article that I was relating to to support
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: our listeners and make sure they didn't get scammed online.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: And then I was ridiculed. I think the quote was,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: what is this, the 1950s?
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Are you wearing your slippers and a pipe?
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: And at which point I said, I think our discerning
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: listeners probably do use fountain pens. I'm sure, in fact,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: that we would have listeners who use fountain pens. Not
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: only do we have listeners... who use fountain pens. So
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: that was the bet. The bet was that we at
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: least had listeners who use fountain pens. You said no
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: listeners would be using a fountain pen. I think that
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: was about it, Tiff. I think that's how it panned out.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see no evidence.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I get an email back from Richard who says, Hi, Patrick,
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: tell that buff head to wind his neck in. I
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: use a Montblanc Meisterstuck and a Carondash fountain pen. They're
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: both much nicer to write with than a whiteboard marker.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: How awesome is that?
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Richard, may I say, Dick, touche. Just fucking with you. Well, Richard.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: How awesome is that?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I stand corrected. I can go one better. I can
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: go one better. Then I also got Damien, who not only,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: wait for this.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Hey, Patrick, listening TYP podcast 2245 and heard your story
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: about fountain pens. If you're needing one or just want
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: one for the hell of it, I can turn you
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: one from some wood so you can actually make a
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: fountain pen. How good is that? Not only have we
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: got discerning, we've got talent.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: But that would be one of the ones that you
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: dip in ink. Am I correct?
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. Proper fountain pen with the barrel and
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: you fill up the rechargeable ink. He did send me
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: a photograph, which is further down on your list that
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I supplied you that actually shows a ballpoint pen that
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: he'd made.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really gorgeous. And he's making some, he did
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: a letter opener for a wedding gift. So he did,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: I think he's doing a pen, a letter opener and
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: something else as a wedding gift for a friend, which
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I thought, what a lovely gift to turn some wood
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: and craft. a letter opener and a pen.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: That's almost like the antithesis of AI, isn't it?
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. Isn't it great?
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Richard with his Mont Blanc or whatever he has.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Yep. All right.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Well, Richard, I stand corrected. There's one of you, I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: will say. There's probably more. There's probably more. I don't
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: think we'll talk about the particular bet we had. We
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: didn't talk about it on air because it was too rude. No, correct.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Good.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Well, let's not talk about.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: It on air. Do you use moisturizer on your hands
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: just by the way?
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: No, I don't. I use it on my face, which
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: is why I look so fucking youthful. When, in fact,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I'm useless. A lot of people can avow.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I just thought of something, though. If you do use
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: it on your face, by default, you're using it on
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: your hands unless you use another appendage to apply it.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: No, I just face plant it. It's like a tub
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of ice cream. I just stick my face in there. Yeah. Well, yeah,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I think people know what you're alluding to, Patrick, and
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: it's inappropriate. It's inappropriate. I don't want to say my
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: feelings are hurt when I feel like people love you
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: much more than me on my show. So that's okay.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Back in therapy for the ex-fat kid. That's all right.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: It's nothing new. I stand corrected. Patrick was right. Some
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: people do use fountain pens. 15 love. Bonello. Can we
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: get into general chat now? You won. There you go.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: You win. It doesn't feel that good, doesn't it?
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: It does, actually.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: You know when someone goes, okay, you're right, I'm wrong?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: No, it still feels pretty good. No, it feels pretty good.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: It's very rare that I hear you apologize. So, you know,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I'm just lapping it up.
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: God.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't apologize. I just said you're right.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it still felt like a bit of an apology.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: What do you reckon, Tiff? How many times have you
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: known him?
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: What did Richard say about me, that grunt to wind
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: his neck in? No, he said, tell that buff head
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: to wind his neck in.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Jeez, Richard. Richard. I like the line about the whiteboard marker.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: That's pretty funny, though. They're both much nicer to write
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: with than a whiteboard marker. You know what's nice about that, though,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Craig O, is that the listeners know you. I think
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: that's really good. It's nice.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I would debate that. I find, look, it's personal preference,
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: of course, but as somebody who writes on a whiteboard
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: every single day of his life, I find it therapeutic.
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: But I like writing.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm a little bit creative and artistic,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: so I like the Finnish product that I'm looking at.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: That's a bit self-congratulatory, isn't it? Jeez, I don't think
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I've ever used that word.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: All right. You know what? Can I just interject for
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: one moment, just talking about whiteboard markers?
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: We don't have to interject. You can just talk because
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you're the co-host.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Last year I went through a bit of a haiku phase,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: haiku being a Japanese poem, And I, every night, I
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: would take my whiteboard marker and I would write on
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: the mirror in my bathroom before I brush my teeth
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: and I would make up a haiku.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Could I say in the history of sentences, I don't
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: think anyone has ever said, last year I was going
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: through a bit of a haiku phase. That may never
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: be said again in the history of humanity.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Can I just ask if any of our listeners have
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: ever gone through a haiku phase?
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: If somebody can honestly say, fuck, that's amazing, Patrick, last
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: year I went through a bit of a haiku phase
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: as well. I don't want to say I'll retire because
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: someone will do it just to get me to retire.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Probably Richard. I reckon Richard's been through a lot.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: I think Richard fucking loves me. But anyway, maybe this
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: is the only ep he listens to because he's in
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: love with you and Tiff. That's understandable.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I'd be in love with Tiff. I still kind of
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: have a bit of a crush on Tiff, to be honest. Sorry, Scott.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: She's a hybrid. She's a self-proclaimed hybrid. So I think
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: almost technically she ticks the box. So... For you, Patrick.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: What time is it now?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Are we done?
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Is that it? Are we finished?
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And that's it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Hey, everyone. Thanks for joining us. I have almost– well,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I do have a grown-up thing to ask, and that
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: is about the– The thing that's, I can't even, the acronym,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: what is it? HPH or PHP?
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: PHP, the Vulnerability Exploits.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: So yesterday I was talking to Melissa, who is the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: boss of me, who runs all the back end of
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: everything I do and actually has proper intelligence, unlike me.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: And she was quite, I'm not going to say panic stricken,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: but concerned about all of our shits and all of
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the whatever. And- I'm like living subterranean, my head underground,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: not knowing what any of this means. And then I'm like, yeah,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: it's kind of bullshit. It'll be fine. And then I
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: see on the news, not really fine at all. Can
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: you explain to us, if you're not in Australia, this happened? Oh, no,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: it's worldwide. Yeah, it's worldwide. And we're talking on the
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: 23rd of October, which is a Friday. So tell us
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: what happened. Yeah, the basics for us.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Well, the interesting thing is it was discovered by AI.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: So there are a number of organizations around the world
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: that look for vulnerabilities in code that's used on websites.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: And PHP is a code that runs in the background.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: So programming software that runs in the background. And it
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: powers most websites. We're talking 75, 70 to 75% of
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: all websites on the planet. But they have PHP running,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: this code running in the back end. It helps run
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: the websites.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Yep. And so two independent research organizations discovered a vulnerability
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: that's been around for a long time that.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Could be exploited by hackers. They could get into your
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: website without needing any passwords or anything, maliciously attack the
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: website and then send out viruses or whatever they do
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: when they exploit the website or get into databases. The
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: thing is that The researchers then contacted the people who
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: make the code and they were working on a patch
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: to fix the vulnerability. But somebody leaked the fact. And
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: this is what caused the panic. Because on the 20th, 21st,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: depending on which time zone that you're in of this month,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: it got out before they'd had a chance to build
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: the patch to fix the vulnerability. What it effectively meant
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: was that hackers could then exploit the this particular vulnerability
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: within PHP. Now, if people don't update the website code regularly,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: so PHP sits on the server that runs your website,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: and there's probably millions of websites that don't have updated PHP.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: It means if they're not using the latest version of
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the software, then the website's vulnerable to attack. And in
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: some cases, I think Norway shut down a whole lot
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of websites until it was fixed. I was up at
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: 2 a.m. in the morning just checking our server because
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the patch only came out, the fix for it only
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: came out for Australian time. I think it might have
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: been 10 or 11 o'clock at night for us. And
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: it was a bit of a panic because it really
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: meant that there was a lot of vulnerabilities. But because
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: it had been leaked before the fix had happened, potentially
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of sites could have been hacked.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: So what is the patch? So that's like, what does
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: that mean?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: A piece of software. Okay. So you're driving. So you
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: get a call from your car manufacturer to say that
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: there's a vulnerability or there's something wrong with the brakes or,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: you know, manufacturers quite often have recalls to say that
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: there's something wrong. This is exactly what it is. It's
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: a recall for some software that has a vulnerability in
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: it where hackers can exploit the vulnerability. And so they
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: bring out a piece of software that fixes the gap,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the hole in the software so that it can't be exploited.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, beautiful explanation. Tiff, did you know about this, worry
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: about this, do anything about this?
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: I saw something on it. late yesterday and went, fuck,
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: I don't know what's going on with that.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Can I just say though, Tiff, every person who has
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: a website should be talking to who they host their
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: website with. This actually really is quite serious. So every
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: single person who has a website should be talking to
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the people who provided the website, who do the hosting
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: of it, and you should be talking to your provider
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: and saying, what have you done to fix my site?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: And the reality of it is a lot of people
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: who build websites or get a website built, the designer
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: builds the site and then they walk away. And so
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: you may potentially have a site that's vulnerable purely because
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: there's no real agreement with your hosting company as to
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: who is going to fix it or keep the site
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: up to date. Because effectively people build it, they design it,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: they hand it over to you and they rely on
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: you to do it or they just don't offer that
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: sort of support. And that's the thing that you need
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: to know about when you do get a website, that
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: you're going to get that ongoing support.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Well, while we're on this conversation, sorry, Tiff, Patrick, you
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: might as well tell everybody. And no, this was in
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: no way planned. As you can imagine, completely organic, but
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: it does strike me that you have a business plan.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: It does seem self-serving, doesn't it? I don't know. I
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: actually feel embarrassed. It does.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: No wonder you put this conversation on the list. But
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I'm only kidding. Tell people about your business and know, well,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I guess this is a plug, but fuck it. You
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: deserve a plug because TIFF hasn't been paying you.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I didn't think it was Tim's responsibilities quietly. But no, websitesnow.com.au. Look,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: this is, aside from the plug, honestly, it is something
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: that doesn't matter who your provider is. You need to
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: get on top of it and to just get, you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: find out from them. How secure is my website? Is
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it getting updated for me? Who's doing the backend stuff?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Because people take your money and then that's it. They
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: just let it sit there. And that's the reality. If
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you're paying somebody to host. So when you build a website,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: there's the initial build and you pay for that. But
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: then you pay what they call hosting. It's like renting
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: space on the internet. So your website sits there and
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: you pay someone to host that. But most hosting providers
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: don't support the back end by way of security updates
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and patches. So this PHP update. you may have got
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: an email about it, but you may not have. If
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: you go for, say, cheap hosting, then maybe you're not
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: getting that sort of support because you've gone for the
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: cheapest package. It may be that if you paid an
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: extra level or tier up, you then get support to
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: go with it. So it's like anything. You can get
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: the basic hosting or you pay for security to go
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: with it or updates and that sort of stuff. So
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: you just need to read the fine print of And
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: make sure you're getting what you're paying for or what
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you are getting is actually included in the security side
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to take all my money out
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: of the bank and bury it in the backyard. Yeah.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a bit scared. Get gold. Invest in gold. Gold's great,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: isn't it? Doesn't it keep going up? I wish I'd
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: bought gold.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: If only I had a backyard.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I live in a golden triangle. You could bury it
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: under your barley hut. Yeah.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, no one will think of that, especially now that
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: we've spoken about it here.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Oops, sorry.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Come on, come up with a better idea. Artificial intelligence
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and software. is our next area of exploration. Which one
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: of those five stories do you want to lead us into?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: This is an interesting one. Okay, so, I mean, AI
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: is great and AI is crap, let's face it. Microsoft
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: has just come out and said recently that their medical
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: diagnostic AI is is more accurate than a general practitioner.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: So what that effectively means is the Microsoft CEO has
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: come out and said a published and peer-reviewed study in
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the Journal of Science showed that an AI diagnostic system
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: that is being used by Microsoft has an accuracy rate
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: of 83.2%. The average GP has an accuracy rate of 36.1%.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: They're not saying we're going to replace GPs. What they're
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: saying is if GPs are using this diagnostic tool, and
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: this is from the New England Journal of Medicine. It's peer-reviewed.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: It's been studied. But 83.2% accuracy makes you think, well,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: maybe all GPs should be using this AI tool. So
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: that's a positive thing. And it's cost effective. It means
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: they can reference so much information with the large learning model.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So it's exciting. But on the flip side, this staggered me.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: So Anthropic is another AI company. And they're talking to,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: in the United States, they're talking about guardrails. So they're
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: trying to do the right thing. They're doing a bit
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: of a PR thing. And they're saying, we want to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: put guardrails up for artificial intelligence models. But what they've
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: done is they've set the bar. And the bar is,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: if 50 people or more are killed as a result
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of AI, or there's a loss of $ 1. 5 billion Australian,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: then that's when this should kick in. That's when this
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: legislation should kick in. So they've set the bar at
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: 50 deaths or $ 1. 5 billion in loss. How do you
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: put a value on AI potentially being the cause of
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: 50 deaths? You know what I mean? How do you
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: even come up with a figure that can monetize or
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: even say that this is acceptable? So what it effectively
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: says is anything under 50, so 49 people dead because
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: of AI, that's fine. You know, $ 1. 4 billion? Yeah, that's
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: not bad. $ 1. 499 is fine.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, and it sounds like an
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: open and shut case and absolutely concrete. Tiff, can you
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: do this for me? Can you find out how many
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: deaths happen per year in the States through medical mistakes?
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: I think you will find it was or medical mistakes
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: or misdiagnoses or, you know, it was the third biggest
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: leading cause of death, medical fuck-ups, and obviously that's all
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: through human intervention, right? Now, I'm not saying like doctors
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: are amazing, nurses are amazing, but at some stage you go, well,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: maybe the 50 deaths, it could have been 2000 deaths
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: like this is when you say it in isolation it
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: sounds fucking horrible but then when you go and i
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: i don't necessarily agree with those figures but let's just
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: hypothetically say 83 accuracy versus 36 or whatever it was
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: well if that is true and i'm not saying it's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: true but if it is published in the new england
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: journal of medicine or british journal of medicine What does
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: it say, Tiff?
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: Between 100,000 and 250,000 per year.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Read it per what per year?
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: In the United States, estimates suggest that roughly 100,000 to
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: 250,000 people may die each year from medical errors depending
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: on how medical mistakes are defined and measured.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So- It's already happening on a macro level is
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that people are dying because of human mistakes. That's not
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: an opinion. Like that's literally, that's science, that's data. There's
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: evidence for that. We don't like that. But I mean,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in isolation, 50 deaths, you go, oh my God. But
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: in the context of even if we work with the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: bottom number, 100,000 deaths, It's not as a compelling case.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you're saying. And I guess the
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: thing to bear in mind is when people go into hospital,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: so you might have died because a doctor made a mistake,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: but also your reason for being in hospital is you're
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: suffering from a gunshot wound. You're kind of vulnerable when
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: you get in there on the gurney to start with.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And then some doctor leaves a sponge inside you because
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: he's rushing around sewing you.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Up and then you die from an infection. Sorry, that
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: was just laughing.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, what I'm saying.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, having been in the hospital system a lot
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: in the last year, one, I think doctors and nurses
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: are fucking amazing.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Two, I think the majority of them are completely overworked. under-resourced.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And we don't have enough medical resources, especially in the
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: public system, to care for Australians the way that would
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: be optimal. Like that is the pragmatic, practical status of
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: where we're at right now in 2026. And so there
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: will never be an ideal situation that we're in. But
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's trying to I guess with all of this,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do we incorporate biology and technology,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the human brain and the AI brain to produce the
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: best outcomes that we can.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's a point taken. You're absolutely right. And
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: as you say, people working in the medical profession, this
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: has always staggered me. You hear about doctors doing 16-hour
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: shifts every Yeah. Wednesday night, I was up at 2 a.m.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: doing some work. And then subsequently, last night at Tai Chi,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I reckon halfway through, I was almost falling asleep. I'm thinking, wow,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not performing surgery. I'm just trying to balance on
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: one leg. Yeah.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: And imagine also, like when you're doing surgery compared to
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: what most of us would think is something hard that
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: we're doing. Imagine the energetic load, the cognitive load, the
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: physical load. Like one hour of that is probably worth
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: four hours of something hard that I might do. Yeah.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: But then they're doing in some cases whatever, 16-hour shifts.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Like that's, yeah, that's fraught with danger. Tell me about
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: AI music because I'm very interested in AI music at
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the moment because I heard a song the other day
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: There was a post on IG and the music was awesome.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh, what is who? What is that?
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: And I mean, you know what I'm going to say,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: but it was AI. But I've got to say, just
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: as a list, I understand people going, I would never
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: listen to AI. But the catch is sometimes you'll hear
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: something and you're like, that's fucking awesome. Then you figure
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: out it's not a human.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you might recall at Christmas last year, I
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: like doing little personalized labels for gifts that I give people.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And I usually do Merry Fritzmas. So my thing is
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: to wish people a Merry Fritzmas. And I have a
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: little picture of Fritz with a little Santa hat on him.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: But this year, well, last year, I actually did a
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Christmas song about Fritz. But that was AI. And it
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: was something that I thought about like, you know, an
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: hour before I was going to visit the family. So
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I hastily just did a QR code, uploaded a file,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: created a song on AI. And it was funny. And people,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: and you know, it became a sound worm. I reckon
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: for the next two months, I couldn't get it out
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of my head. The tune was so good. And it
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: was AI. It was all AI created. That said, you know,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I know somebody who is studying composition, music composition. And,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: you know, the talent that goes into creating a piece
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: of music from scratch is phenomenal. But what this whole–
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the reason that I wanted to chat about this article
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: is YouTube Music and an organization called Deezer, another music
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: streaming platform, are putting in place at the moment what
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: they call content filters and a detection system to identify–
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: any music that is unverified or AI generated. And that's
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: where we've spoken about this on the show before. I
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: don't mind if you know that it's AI generated music,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: there's not a problem. And I might like to listen
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: to it. You know, my little Fritzmas song was great,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: but I want to know that beforehand. You know, I
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: bought vinyl this week because an artist that I really
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like released an album and I wanted to buy it
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: on vinyl.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Last week or last time we chatted, there was a
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: trauma experience around you and vinyl.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, that's right.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: What was the outcome?
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Well, the outcome was that I got my vinyl sent
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: to me and it was folded, like literally the vinyl
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: record had been folded. So I sent it back to
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: the record company and that was a free label return
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: and then they sent out the actual non-bent album yesterday.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: So I got my vinyl. I haven't played it yet.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I was hoping to do that today or on the weekend.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised you didn't go for the bent one but
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: anyway what else what else is on the list bro can.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I ask do either of you when you send texts
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: on your phone do you swipe or type and do
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean when I ask that question.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: When I send a text do.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I Type or type? I'll do a bit of both.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I type because I'm a fucking T-Rex.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Tiff?
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: I'll do a bit of both.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: A bit of both. Now, the reason I mentioned that
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: is I was at a conference last week and I
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: was sending a message to somebody. I'd reconnected. This is
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: such a lovely thing. I was doing a Tai Chi
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: session at 6.30 in the morning. And at the same time,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: a woman that I was on a committee with 35
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: years ago, she was doing laughing yoga, which was so cool.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: A lady by the name of Philippa Chalice. Have you
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: ever heard of laughing yoga? Have you done it, Tip?
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: No.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's awesome.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I've done crying yoga where it's a real emotional release.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: I've done that. Have you? Oh, I thought you were joking. Oh, really?
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: There's a crying yoga? I don't know what we're going
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: There is actually.
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: There's not, but if you do do a deep back bend,
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: you will.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: I have had three breakdowns from after traumatic events that
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: have come out on the yoga mat.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Holy crap.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: You know when else that happens? You're right, Tiff. When certain,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: like when your body gets in certain positions and it's
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: like fucking some button gets pressed and here come the tears.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: But also- One of my friends does like proper real
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: deal myotherapy, deep tissue kind of, it's not rubbing your
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: shoulders and hitting on the ass and sending you out
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: the door. And she says at least once a day
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: somebody cries while being massaged. Yeah. She said sometimes like
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: half the people.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: So the physical emotional release, yeah. Well, laughing yoga is amazing.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: And so I had a chance to give that a
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: try in Geelong last week. But anyway, I reconnected with
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: this woman that I'd known 35 years ago. And so
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: we did the whole exchange of numbers. So I was
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: about to send her a text and she looked at
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: me while I was sending the text. She said, what
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: are you doing? And I said, I'm swiping. And she said,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I've never seen that before. So instead of typing every
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: individual character, now a lot of our listeners probably know
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: what this means, but if you don't, So rather than
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: typing the word hello, H-E-L-L-O, you start off at the H,
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: but you just swipe to the E, swipe to the Ls,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: and then swipe to the O without lifting your finger off.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: And from that perspective, it means that you're not lifting
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: your thumb up and down constantly, which is quicker. It
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: feels to me that's quicker and it's more streamlined when
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: you do swiping, texting. And I just wondered whether you
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: guys did it before, but Tiff, you just said you alternate.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Is Tiff frozen? I think she's frozen. Yeah, she's frozen.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: She'll probably jump out, but I'll answer that question. Tiff,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: where did you go?
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Everything just froze for a second then.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, everything didn't.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: You did.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Patrick and I were still here having a lucid, if
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: not overly meaningful conversation. And he threw to you and
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: you were like a statue on our screen, which was
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: very funny.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: It was funny.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know how he's now throwing to you. Like
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: now he's the fucking boss of the show.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: I'd love to catch the throw, but I didn't hear
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: it all.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: What did– I think he asked you if you're a swiper.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I'm a swiper, yeah, because you can do
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: it carelessly, which I do a lot of things in
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: life carelessly and quickly, and if you get the general shape, bam.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: It's good, isn't it?
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think about how many calories I'm burning–
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: by tapping letters individual versus you two fucking slugs. For me,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it's all about the energy expenditure.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do too much cardio.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: So, Patrick, in a few years when you're in a
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: chair and chubby and I'm jacked, it's because you're a swiper.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're going to be jacked with arthritis in
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: your thumb. Yeah, I know, but what about my abs?
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone's going to be– they're not even going to
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: notice my arthritic thumb because they'll be mesmerised by my
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: fucking six-pack. By the way, everyone, I'm kidding. I don't
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: have a six-pack. It's all humour.
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: Do you know when you've got to kind of– I
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: have a different training regime for my digits.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, what's that? Oh, should I ask? Probably not.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Do tell.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Tell us.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: What's the next thing on the list, Patrick?
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: What is– hang on. What is the different training regime
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: for your digits? Does it– I know you've tried a few.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You've tried piano. That lasted eight minutes. Then you got
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: yourself a guitarist, a guitar. You thought you were going
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: to be fucking Jimi Hendrix by Christmas. Well, that sadly died.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I've never seen.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Then you were going to be an artist for which
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: you have not inconsiderable talent, I would say.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: A lot of talent, yeah.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you did that for about, that was probably your biggest.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: That was probably four weeks. I thought, fuck, she's on fire. No,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: hanging up the pencil. Patrick, help. Patrick, help. Take us
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: somewhere else.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: You're digging that big hole, man.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: There's no hole. I'm just fucking commenting on fucking ADHD,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: fucking OCD, everything girl over there. All the acronyms. Pick
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: an acronym and she knows it.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: That's why she's laughing. She's not all the acronyms. It's
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: not the LGBTIQ +.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's in the plus for sure.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: She's sure in the hybrid.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Potentially, yeah.
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: 30 on the edge.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Speaking of speaking of such acronyms i am starting to
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: come around to the idea that adhd is more of
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: a superpower than any kind of limitation yeah like so
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: many people that i know that are a bit adhd
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: whatever the fuck that is you know there's a scale
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: there's a spectrum but i i was thinking about i
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: was listening to rogan and he was talking about the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: idea of like sticking a a 10-year-old kid in a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: classroom who's got ADHD, they just got out of bed,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: their body's fully recharged, they give them breakfast, which has
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: probably got some sugar in it, then at 9 o'clock
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: you say, sit in this chair until 3 o'clock essentially
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: and let's talk about the Second World War. It's like, fuck,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: no wonder. And then they get diagnosed as badly behaved
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: and then they get medicated and And they're not badly behaved.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: It's just that that system doesn't work for that kid.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: So we try to make that kid a version of
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that system for which they are not biochemically or biologically wired.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: It's like putting me in music school and going, you
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: need to become a musical prodigy. And I'm like, I
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: don't have the ability and I'm not interested.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: No, no, I agree. I mean, Tiff and I have
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: discussed this. I don't know if I've discussed it on
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: the podcast, but I was diagnosed with ADHD earlier this year.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: And it was an eye-opener for me. And it's been
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: an amazing journey because I know that my executive function
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: is limited. But when I'm focused, I'm hyper-focused. And you
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: know me for years, Craig.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Your executive function is not limited. You are fucking highly intelligent,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: and I hate praising you, but I love you underneath
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: all the bullshit. You are very, very smart, very creative.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: You're very good at solving problems. You just have the
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: attention span of a dog with three dicks at times,
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: depending on what you're focused on.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: But that's the thing because my executive function means that
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I can only hold on to a few things. I
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: do that on the podcast. How many times do I
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: ask you a question and forgot what I've asked because
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: I've got on to the next topic already?
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Or I'm asking you something and you're looking at me
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: and you're thinking about the next thing.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: The next three things, yeah.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: And you hear all my words but don't hear any
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: of my words. Yeah. Are we still on artificial intelligence
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and software?
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Kind of. Adobe Lightroom, so that's just an editing software
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: for photographs. They've introduced a new feature that allows portrait
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: photographers to artificially put eyes on people who blink at
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: the middle of a crucial time in a photo. So
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: if you catch someone, you take a photo, it's a
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: great looking photo, but they've blinked. Now they can artificially
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: put the eyes on them. But I have an issue
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: with this. My Pixel phone does some really cool stuff
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: where I can even add myself into a photograph. And
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: I know someone who did this recently where they were
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: absent at a family function. And so they artificially put
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: themselves in that photo. But you're changing history when you
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: do that.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: No, you're not. You're just creating a fake image. You
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: literally cannot change history.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: You are changing it for the person 10 years later
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: who looks at that photo and says, oh, yeah, Brian
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: was at that family function. No, you're not.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: No one believes anything these days.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: You're changing their perception.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, you are.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: You are not changing history.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: But aren't you trying to change history? Aren't you manipulating
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: a photograph to do something?
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, are you talking about literally changing history?
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Or are you talking about making people think something differently
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: about an historical event? I am.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're right, the second one.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: Yes. Patrick might be sensationalising the headline.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: Which is not uncommon these days.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Tiff, can you bring us back into line? LAUGHTER
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Speaking of changing history, Patrick and Tiff, I did this
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: ridiculous thing yesterday. I don't know if you know about this,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: but you will love this, Patrick, and maybe Tiff. There
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: was this, I don't have all the details, but the
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: essential story I have. So there was this guy, I
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: think it was in the 70s in the United States,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: and he got all of these gigantic helium balloons. He
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: literally tied the balloons, I see you know it, to
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: a deck chair, right? This is a true story, Tiff.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: This is not bullshit. So he tied all of these balloons,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: which can lift up you know but he tied so
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: many that it would lift his body weight in a
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: deck chair so he thought he would get up like
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: 20 30 feet and then it would come down well
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: that did not happen by the way he took a
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: shotgun so he's sitting in a deck chair or at
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: like one of those fold out barbecue chairs i guess
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you know like the old ones you take to the
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: beach okay so the balloons fucking lift him thousands of
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: feet in the air, right?
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: So he's literally in a deck chair just with this
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: crudely assembled thing, true story, and then he has to
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: start to shoot. His plan to come back down was
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: to shoot a balloon at a time with his gun.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Do you remember this story, Patrick?
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: He was a priest. I believe the guy was a priest,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: if you recall.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe he wanted to get closer to God and maybe
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: ultimately in the front door.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Well, he did get in the front door because he
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: drifted out to sea. He didn't take into account the
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: fact that the layers of air can be moving quite
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: drastically different the higher you go in terms of– you know,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: when you see those, you can– I love looking at clouds.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I know I'm nerding out again. But if you look–
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: sometimes when you look at the sky and there's those
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: clouds that are quite horizontal– That's due to the amount
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: of wind that's pushing the clouds and so it changes
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: the shape of the clouds. But as he rose, he
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: didn't realise he was going to get blown out to
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: sea and that's what happened. Are you looking it up, Tiff?
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It was a priest, wasn't it?
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: His name was Larry Walters.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Nothing about him being a priest.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I also don't think he got blown out to sea. Tiff,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: can you... Can you read us the story? Oh, now Patrick's, hey, everyone,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: this is my view right now.
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: He was a truck driver, so definitely not a priest.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Can I just say, a Brazilian Catholic priest who died
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: after a cluster ballooning attempt on the 20th of April 2008.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: So there was another person.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: 1982.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: A 33-year-old truck driver from California attached 42 helium-filled weather
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: balloons to an aluminium lawn chair.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: The lawn chair looks horrendous.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: How dodgy does that shit look?
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God, so bad.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Have a look, everyone, if you get a moment.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: He reached 16,000 feet, just under five kilometres in the air.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Yeah, how fucking terrified. But he landed safely,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: didn't he?
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Pilots reported seeing a man in a lawn chair in
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: the sky.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: How good is that?
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Could you imagine how much eye-rubbing would be going? You're like,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: hang on. 420 Mary 1-9, just looking out. There's a
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: man in a, appears to be a human being in
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: a lawn chair at 16,000 feet. Roger, over. The original
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: penalty was $ 4, 000.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: What's that? The original penalty from the Federal Aviation Administration
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: was $ 4, 000.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Totally worth it because he's still a monster.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: He was up there for 90 minutes.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: But he got back safely. Does it say that?
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: Yes, he did, yeah. He got tangled in power lines.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Unlike the Catholic priest who was born the same year
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: that I was born.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a sign. I mean, you live
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: in a big open space with lots of fields. You're curious. Like,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: you understand thermodynamics. Mm-hmm. you should maybe just give it
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: a go.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I'll sponsor it. Dude, I've paraglided. I've flown 51 paragliding
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: flights solo.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but everybody does that. That's just a thing. That's
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: not adventurous.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: I would not do that with a balloon. I would
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: not feel in any way in control. At least with
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: a paraglider, I'm in control.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Patrick, do you– this is a– I'm sure you do,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: but when you send texts– Oh, no, I know you
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: don't because you're a slider, not a fucking whatever.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: What?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Not a typer. Okay. When I send texts, I just
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: talk my texts now.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, do you?
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I literally press the thing and I just say.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, Mr.
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: Lazy.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: There goes all of that digit cardio you were doing.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I'm getting a little bit chubby now.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Because they have a spare tyre.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Only in the car, mate.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Because of how I text.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Only in the car when I can safely use my
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: voice to text, but I don't voice to text when
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I'm texting. I swipe.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I often will get a message like, hi, Craig, how's
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: your mum? And then, like, it's got to be a...
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: like a fucking hundred-word answer, right? So I just dictate
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: and it types as I talk, which to me, the
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: T-Rex of the team, is fucking groundbreaking. That's way quicker again.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Well, but you know what? I like to swipe because
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: I use more calories and it means that I get
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: some exercise in when I'm swiping. Yeah, all right.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: That's cool. But while I'm voice to texting, I'm jogging
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: on the spot and doing star jumps. So there's that.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: So 15 all.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: I actually burpee jump to wherever the person who messaged
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: me is.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: You know, to be honest with you, if I get
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: a text and the answer is more than a line,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: I pick up the phone and I damn well call them.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I get that.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like to call.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: If someone sends you a 200-word text with 13 questions,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: like just fucking ring me. Yeah.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm more of a ringer than a texter, to
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: be honest. If it's something more detailed, prefer to pick
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: up the phone and talk.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to get a thousand phone calls now
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: after this podcast. What does voice mod key change phone hardware?
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a device. Hey, Tiff, you remember we were
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: talking about that little kind of business card sized AI
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: thing you put on the back of your phone to
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: listen to everybody's conversation. Well, there's a company, Voicemod.com. have
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: now got a hardware solution that allows you to put
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: a similar device on the back of your phone, but
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: it changes your voice to make it sound different. So
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: it's for gaming, for content streaming. The concern with me
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: is that- I would say it's for crime. That was
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: what I was thinking too. Potentially you could.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Mimic- Nefarious intentions, Patrick.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's a thing. It's a thing. It was
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: an article on CNET recently, this Void Mod, because it's
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: been an app that you could use, and now they've
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: come up with a physical solution that you put on
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: the back of your phone to make your voice sound different.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like we're heading towards a more familiar space
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: for me when you write social contagion and rule-breaking study.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Do tell, Professor. Yeah. What are you laughing at?
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Well, only because I didn't know what article you were
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: talking about. I'm scrolling down to hastily find which one
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: you were talking about. That's right.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You scrolled it and Tiff, leave this in. This
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: is the mess of a real.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: There is a point at which you have to travel
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: for about five or 10 kilometers at 60 kilometers an hour.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: You've got to slow right down on the highway, the
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: roads crap, and no one except me, and I mean this,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: no one except me goes 60. I've had trucks overtaking,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: they've come flying up your rear end, so to speak,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: they overtake. And this is an interesting one. So this
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: social contagion, it was a study that was done to
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: basically say if a lot of people do the wrong thing,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: then it's okay to do the wrong thing. So it's
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: this kind of... The study looked at the social dynamics
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: and what it found is that people... The bad apple
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: kind of analogy, you know, one bad apple can spoil
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: the whole bunch or whatever, you know what I'm talking about.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: But effectively, if someone has rule breaking behavior and more
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: people break rules, then people will find it more socially
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: acceptable to break the rules. And my analogy was this.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: If I'm sitting at 60 kilometers an hour, but everybody
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: else is going 110, then all the other people going
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: 110 are going to justify the fact that they're speeding
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: because everyone else is doing it. Yeah, that happens. That
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: is very, one, you're absolutely correct. But if you, not
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: that I will do this, Patrick, but if you walk
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: up to a pedestrian crossing at an intersection and there
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: are no cars anywhere and it's on red and there
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: are eight people standing there with no traffic anywhere. And
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I was to hype, I would never, but if I
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: was to hypothetically just walk across, about four people step
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: out of the group and just walk with me. I'm like,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: come on, kids, let's get it done. But what is
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: also interesting is almost like the opposite of this is
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: how if somebody is on the street in pain or they've,
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: you know, it depends on the situation, but like somebody
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: knee help, there's lots of studies to say that a
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: lot of people will just walk past because they don't
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: want to get involved. But if one person gets involved,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: other people will come up and get involved. Yeah.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: This was an article in The Guardian, which was really
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: interesting because the reason for the study was if we
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: understand how antisocial behavior spreads and they're calling it a
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: social contagion, what it may do is give us insights
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: into how we should be organizing and manage things like
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: law enforcement strategy, public policy, things like that. So there's
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: a real basis to understanding how that herd behaviour can
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: be mitigated and how you can put processes in place. But,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I guess there's always going to be the
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: nerd who doesn't, you know, tries to do the right thing,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: and that's me sometimes. Sometimes, because I've done what you've
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: talked about too, Craig. I've stood at a set of
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: lights wondering when the bloody light's going to turn green,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: when there are no cars around. And one person crosses
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: and it's like, you know what, F it. I'm going
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: to cross it as well. So I'm just as guilty. Yeah.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: You know, speaking of social contagions and the way that
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: an individual or a few individuals can impact group behavior,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I saw this documentary recently. No, that is not true.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: I saw a reel, but it went for three or
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: four minutes on. So in the States, there's a very
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: infamous prison called Angola in Louisiana. Have you heard of it? Anyway,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: it's in the South and it was regarded generally as
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: the worst prison in America. Lots of violence, lots of gangs.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: It was just a shithole. Like your chances of surviving,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: you know, most people would eventually get out, but that'd be...
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: They'd be in continual kind of threat and danger, lots
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: of fights, lots of injuries. Anyway, a few years ago,
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: this guy started coming in and a team of people
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: preaching the gospel, right? And now, and they've got all
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: the stats, like there's something like, I don't know, like
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: quite a high percentage of the inmates are Christians, reading
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: the Bible, doing Bible studies, going to church. And it's
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: a completely different experience. It's now one of the safest
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and most desirable, if that's a thing, places to get
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: sent to in the States.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. And I guess there would have been
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: a tipping point at some point, you know, if you,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: there's a hierarchy and if you see somebody that you
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: look up to, but it might be because you fear them,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: who knows in a prison setting, but, but there would
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: have been a tipping point, I think when it would
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: have maybe had a slow uptake and then it would
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: have increased. I guess that's interesting, isn't it? That sometimes peer,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: not peer pressure per se, I guess it's the same thing,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: isn't it? As more people get involved or get on
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: the bandwagon, it's, it's easier, but that's great. I mean,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: if you can mitigate violence in prisons and people can
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: serve their time without the threat to their personal being,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: and hopefully they come out reformed and they're ready to
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: come out and join community and don't want to commit
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: crimes again.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Well, they had these two guys, the kind of, one
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: was the leader of the Aryan Brotherhood. So neo-Nazis, white
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: guys with face tattoos and all the shit, right? I'm generalizing, yes.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: And the the guy who was the same, the equivalent,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: but for all the African-American inmates, right? And in this meeting,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: they both stood up and walked up to each other
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: and hugged each other and both said to their respective crews,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: that's it, it ends today.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's powerful, isn't it?
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: It ends today. And it ended.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the latest update is, but anyway.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: So it's powerful how one person's behaviour can influence a group.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: For the good, yeah, for the positive. That's great, isn't it?
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Unless it's you crossing a traffic line.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, true. Okay. Or going 60 kilometres an hour and
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: everyone swears at me. Can you imagine all the people
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: flying up behind me thinking, oh, who's this idiot being
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: a goody two-shoes going at the speed limit when everyone
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: else is doing 110?
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: That's the thing, isn't it? We're going to start with Tiff. Tiff,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: would you be interested in a ring that you could
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: wear that would tell you your biological age and give
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: you insights into what you're doing and how you could
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: improve your biological age? Because you're the gadget kid.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: Most of the gadgets we already have that are probably
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: wildly inaccurate anyway.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, there's a smart ring manufacturer called UltraHuman,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: and they're teaming up with health authorities in the United
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Arab Emirates, and they're using biometric sensor data. And this
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: is something they want to implement in their entire population.
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: They're so into this. They're basically saying the software that
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: they're getting, the metrics they're getting will help improve improve
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: people's lifespans and it'll be totally basically the chronological age
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: and the biological age. So we know what the difference
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: is between a biological and a chronological, Craig.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, we do. Well, one's the number on a calendar.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: One's just an accumulation of days and one is How old,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: in inverted commas, with an asterisk, your body is from
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: a functional, operational health point of view.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, my watch occasionally says, hey, you've just improved
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: your biological age.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: And I get really excited because my watch is telling
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: me that I'm healthier. But, you know, that's kind of fun.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: But this initiative and doing what they call personalized preventative
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: health insights, they're saying this is actionable. So it was
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: a great article in TechCrunch.com. an online news service that
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: I like to read. And they're saying that there's been
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: more and more demand. My issue with wearing the wearables
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: to bed, like I can't wear my smartwatch to bed.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I wear it during the day, but I can't wear
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: it to bed because I find it distracting. But a
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: ring I reckon I would wear. If I had a
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: smart ring that was just working out what I'm doing
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: and looking at my health situation, definitely I'd be into that.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you would. Unfortunately, we have to go. But
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: I'm with Tiff on that one a little bit. Yes,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Tiff's got a little pointy index.
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: Yes, pointing my little witch finger up.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: You reminded me of just this week I saw somebody
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: posting that Aura, the Aura ring was being.
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: Sued or whatever.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Recalled?
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and had to pay out a lot of people
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: for claiming that their sleep data was within, I can't remember,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: 90-something percent accurate to an in-house sleep study.
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: And yeah, so it's interesting.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: The thing I have about all of the claims that
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: companies make is they make it sound to the everyday
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: person like it's a thing. Like there are so many
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: different ways that people and companies test and market biological
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: age and most everyday humans don't. understand the context of
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: that and what does that mean within the lifestyle that
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: they are already living? Does it add to it or
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: does it overload it or does it impede in it?
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. You could literally do a test today. So Tiff, who's,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: what are you, 43? Yep. Yep. So Tiff could do
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: a test when we get off the podcast and it
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: might come out at 33 and then Tonight she drinks booze,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: she eats shit, she doesn't sleep all night, she gets
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: up in the morning, she's fucked and she does the
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: same test and it says her bio age is 40.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Same person. So this is the problem. There are way
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: too many variables and it depends on the state of
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: the individual at the moment they are and that's a
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: fluctuating variable, not only day to day but through the day.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: And what about medications that people take like, say, stimulant
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: medications that change your heart rate and then the data
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: that's being given to you is based on heart rate?
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: So I think all of that needs to be taken
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: into consideration and that's an ever-increasing amount of people.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not just heart rate but blood pressure and nervous
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: system function and endocrine production and, oh, yeah. So that's
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: why it's like grain of salt. Patrick, quickly, the name
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: of your business again?
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, my business is bigger on the inside media, but
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: if they want to visit me and say hi, just
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: go to websitesnow.com.au. And if anybody wants to do some
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: free Tai Chi workout sessions, I've just updated my Tai
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Chi website. Don't laugh. Why do they laugh at.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Me when I try to do- Well, I'm laughing because
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: I told you I had an 8.30 coaching session and
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: it's 8.31 and you start a whole new dialogue. Hey,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: and by the way, while Craig's running late for his session,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: let me tell you about on, go on, tell them,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: go on.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: It's like taichiathome.com.au. If you just want to do some
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Tai Chi with me, that's all.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: That's all right. And Tiff, what would you like to promote?
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: Just, you know, go forth and be amazing, everyone.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, go and hug a puppy. Thank you. Thank you both.