Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Daemons (3/5)

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Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Daemons (3/5) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back to A Hamster with Blood Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:03
  Country Podcast. I'm Rob Valentine.
• 0:05
  This is Joe Ford. We're discussing the demons and
• 0:08
  we are on to episode 3. Can I ask you, Rob, have you
• 0:12
  ever been into a dark space and been in encountered A sinister
• 0:17
  figure wearing stockings? Yeah.
• 0:22
  Oh. Oh, you have?
• 0:23
  Yeah, that was not the answer I was expecting.
• 0:26
  Well, yeah, I mean. The average Saturday night.
• 0:30
  Not every seven nights you got, you got to stay in occasionally,
• 0:33
  you know. Otherwise, you know, you'd never
• 0:35
  get anything done, you know? Sounds very excited.
• 0:37
  You're going to have to let me know where the dark rooms are in
• 0:39
  your. Area, you know.
• 0:42
  What are we here to talk about today?
• 0:44
  You're also in the vicinity of Heathrow Airport.
• 0:46
  But anyway, episode yeah, episode 3 of the Demons and Bach
• 0:53
  is currently Speaking of people in tights released kind of close
• 0:58
  fitting body hugging onesie type things.
• 1:03
  He's currently menacing. If he's a he, we don't really
• 1:07
  know he's a or whatever. But the doc, yeah, he's
• 1:11
  interrupted the doctor explaining how similar the setup
• 1:15
  in this is to quit Mass and the pit to Joe not being very
• 1:20
  polite. You've been kind of impatient
• 1:22
  and exasperated as which is how he spends most of the story.
• 1:25
  Do you think if this was being written today, right by the
• 1:29
  Doctor Who production team today or in the last sort of 20 years,
• 1:33
  someone would have gone? It's just like that TV show, you
• 1:37
  know, in reference to the quite a mass in the pair.
• 1:41
  No, because I, no, I don't. If you're doing it now, I mean,
• 1:48
  folk horror is alive and well. It's not as if you know, it's
• 1:51
  not in the zeitgeist now because you know. 73 yards.
• 1:56
  Marvellous. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:59
  But I mean, I'm just more more widely, you know, the book is
• 2:01
  Adam Neville, you know, folk horror, you know, Midsummer, you
• 2:05
  know, it. Folk horror is, you know, it,
• 2:08
  it, it, it came back, you know, as these things often do.
• 2:11
  So I read Adam Leslie's Lost Her in the Garden.
• 2:14
  No, I haven't. No.
• 2:15
  What's that? I would suggest that's a folk
• 2:17
  horror that came. Out last couple of.
• 2:18
  Years. Fabulous.
• 2:20
  I should get you a copy of that. Yeah, I, I think it's those, I
• 2:23
  mean, folk horror has become, has come back in such a way that
• 2:27
  I can, it's probably going to kind of drift back again at some
• 2:30
  point soon. But if you're doing this today,
• 2:33
  I don't know. I mean, in a weird way, I mean,
• 2:36
  Midsummer Murders is not folk horror, but it's so weird and
• 2:43
  murder, you know, just there is that kind of feeling once you're
• 2:46
  outside London that everything outside the kind of the safety
• 2:52
  of the M25 is a little bit mad, a little bit evil.
• 2:58
  Actually. One thing we might want to talk
• 2:59
  about at some point as we go or is in is the the pitchfork
• 3:06
  murders, murder in Lower Quinton, which happened in I
• 3:11
  think it was the late 40s, early 50s.
• 3:14
  Basically a guy got murdered with a, it wasn't with, it was
• 3:20
  with a pitchfork and a bill hook if I recall.
• 3:24
  But it got lots of tabloid attention and there were rumours
• 3:29
  that there was a black mass or kind of an occult dimension to
• 3:35
  it. And really that was one of the
• 3:37
  things that kind of set off the whole idea in kind of in pop
• 3:43
  culture. It bled into into a novel called
• 3:45
  Ritual, which became The Wicked Man.
• 3:47
  But the whole, the whole idea of rural communities being hotbeds
• 3:54
  of secret dark folk, folk witchcraft behaviour.
• 4:02
  And that's, that is what it's, that is what the demons is
• 4:07
  relying on. But you know, you have episodes
• 4:09
  of The Avengers that did the same thing back in the 60s with
• 4:13
  Diana Riggs. So it's not new to Doctor Who.
• 4:14
  Oh, sorry, it's not, it's not new.
• 4:16
  It's new to Who, but it's still very current in 1971.
• 4:21
  As I said earlier, we're still 2 years off the Wicker Man so.
• 4:24
  It's exactly what they're parodying in that Sama Peck
• 4:27
  film, isn't it? The you know the the sinister
• 4:30
  village. Yeah, in Hot Fuzz.
• 4:33
  Oh, completely. Yes.
• 4:34
  Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's, it's it's that very, I
• 4:41
  suppose it's quite London. It's a metropolitan idea of once
• 4:44
  you kind of go out of the out of towns into the villages, the
• 4:48
  people there that they're, they're a community of parts.
• 4:53
  They have their ways. This is not your ways.
• 4:56
  It's League of Gentlemen. That's what the League of
• 4:57
  Gentlemen did that entirely. Can I explain to you how much
• 5:01
  that has actually absorbed into my consciousness?
• 5:03
  Did I tell you the story about my phone in Aubourne?
• 5:07
  No. So Mark and I fell asleep.
• 5:09
  Yeah, this is absolutely genuine.
• 5:13
  OK, before I say this, it's the truth.
• 5:17
  We went to sleep in the pub. Not the Cloverhoof, the other
• 5:20
  one, the other pub, the only. One the the the Band of Brothers
• 5:24
  pub, Yeah. Pub that Alex Pulitzi went to a
• 5:26
  year earlier and sorted out because it was so dirty
• 5:29
  apparently. So we fell asleep and there was
• 5:32
  a lock of there's a there was a a door at the back of the room,
• 5:36
  right That when with a little hook that you opened up and it
• 5:39
  just went down into like this weird tunnel.
• 5:42
  I don't know what it was, but it just had a little hook on it,
• 5:44
  OK. And we went to sleep and I woke
• 5:47
  up, and I often wake up in the night, reached for my phone and
• 5:51
  my phone was gone. Like literally, it wasn't under
• 5:54
  the bed, It wasn't anywhere on the bedside table.
• 5:57
  It had just gone. And so I went, my phones gone.
• 6:01
  And my heart reached over for his phone and he went, my
• 6:06
  phone's gone too. And I went, what?
• 6:08
  So we both left out of bed and we're looking everywhere for our
• 6:13
  phones, which were absolutely on the bedside tables when we went
• 6:16
  to sleep. And I said, someone's been in
• 6:19
  the fucking room and taken our phones and he goes, no, I said
• 6:22
  someone's come in that fucking cold hole or whatever it is and
• 6:25
  take it off. And I genuinely said the words
• 6:29
  right for this because I looked out the window thinking there
• 6:32
  was going to be like a load of villagers surrounding the pump.
• 6:36
  And I went, I said, we're completely cut off because it's
• 6:40
  the middle of fucking nowhere. And then Mark went, Oh, no,
• 6:43
  wait, it's falling into my bag. And mine was under leave my
• 6:49
  cushion. I don't know how I must have
• 6:50
  reached for it in the night and it had gone into the pillow.
• 6:54
  But I genuinely, for two minutes we both thought we were in a
• 6:59
  village in that situation. And we haven't quite lived down
• 7:04
  from that moment because we told Dylan and Luke in the morning
• 7:07
  and they thought it was hilarious.
• 7:08
  So you know it's real. You know those fears of
• 7:12
  villagers. Yeah, it's a funny thing.
• 7:14
  I'm not. This is not an original
• 7:15
  observation, but I think early in the 20th century there was
• 7:19
  there was a tradition of stories about, you know, city criminals
• 7:25
  going to, you know, kind of wholesome rural communities and
• 7:29
  then finding out the hard way not to mess with the locals.
• 7:32
  But then as society changed and I think we're still kind of
• 7:36
  there, it's, you know, the the civilized normal townie goes out
• 7:40
  to where people are just a little bit weird, a little bit
• 7:44
  inbred, a little bit other. And it's it's the, it's the
• 7:48
  village you must fear. And that's and that's it.
• 7:52
  It's a it's an enticing idea to start something with.
• 7:55
  Will you just give me one second?
• 7:56
  Because that door will just open.
• 7:58
  I can't imagine what he wants in his room, but he probably wants
• 8:00
  something. Mark, you're right.
• 8:03
  And then it turns out, listener, that Mark isn't there.
• 8:06
  Mark's not even in the house. I.
• 8:09
  Mean you saw it open, right? Did you not see a head?
• 8:12
  I saw it open. I didn't see anyone.
• 8:14
  I didn't see anyone there give. Me a second.
• 8:16
  OK, listen, Joe, Joe, Joe has left.
• 8:20
  So it's just us and no Doctor Who to comment on.
• 8:24
  So yeah, while he's away, I'm just going to take this
• 8:27
  opportunity to say thank you for listening.
• 8:30
  And do you know what? If you're still in the bath
• 8:34
  listening to this, just put in a bit more hot water and you could
• 8:38
  have come in. It's.
• 8:40
  OK, I have to stop. Now I think, I think he should
• 8:46
  keep all this and this is, this is good, kind of behind the
• 8:48
  scenes buying the curtain stuff. Anyway, she's back.
• 8:51
  He's back. He's back.
• 8:54
  Hello. Were.
• 8:55
  You. Hi, Joan.
• 8:56
  Poetry whilst I was away that I'll hear later on the
• 8:59
  recording. Yeah, yeah.
• 9:02
  Wonderful. I'm sure it wasn't.
• 9:04
  It was something sinister, no doubt.
• 9:05
  We weren't we weren't talking about it.
• 9:07
  That worries just me. We.
• 9:08
  Who are you talking with? Listener.
• 9:13
  I'm not keeping an eye in Jesus Christ.
• 9:15
  I might keep your opinion though.
• 9:17
  Well, shall I count as in? Yes.
• 9:22
  Yes, OK, in Let's Facebook in three two, you've got the right
• 9:30
  episode. I I, you hear this trust has
• 9:34
  been lost. Yeah.
• 9:36
  I'm on the right one. Yeah.
• 9:37
  Demons. Go.
• 9:40
  OK. And we're.
• 9:40
  In we're in right now, you know, you know in the Timeless
• 9:44
  Children, that Seminole Chris Chibnall classic from series 12.
• 9:49
  Yes. You know how he thought that
• 9:50
  stops the action for a 10 minute exposition sequence, You know,
• 9:55
  where he sort of gathers around the Doctor and the Master and
• 9:57
  everyone and you know, we'd all talk about the back story that's
• 10:00
  occurring here. I present to you the Demons
• 10:03
  episode 3 where there's a 10 minute sequence of exposition
• 10:07
  where they all sit around and discuss the relevant topics of
• 10:11
  the story. Yeah, but this is interesting.
• 10:14
  Well, and it's very funny as well.
• 10:16
  OK, so here, OK, we have the the little cliffhanger recap where
• 10:21
  the doctors talking about 100,000 years ago because the
• 10:24
  demons have been there or this demon in particular has been
• 10:28
  here that long influencing mankind down the ages and that
• 10:32
  is pure. That's pure.
• 10:33
  Quite a mass in the pit. It is, but also we cover it a
• 10:36
  lot. And, Doctor, I'm starting to
• 10:37
  wonder, you know, if the human race has achieved anything.
• 10:40
  Why not? That's the thing that if you go
• 10:42
  down the the Eric von Daniken path too much, it's like the
• 10:45
  Pyramid Stonehenge belief in the devil.
• 10:49
  Every historical event that ever happened, the doctor was there.
• 10:52
  Light in the fires, yeah. The Doctor was aliens built it
• 10:57
  or the doctor was there. You can that can be seriously
• 11:00
  overdone and we get out of the cliffhanger by the Doctor saying
• 11:04
  complete a path the Menin Clatch which is lullaby and and the the
• 11:12
  Master is trying to psychically control Bach, but really the
• 11:16
  Doctor defeats Bach with magic words.
• 11:19
  But it is great. You're right with the Delgado's
• 11:22
  frustration where he's going. It's just primitive mumbo jumbo.
• 11:25
  Oh, very well. Retreats.
• 11:31
  And that's that is a moment where where sort of Pertwee's
• 11:34
  absolute conviction sells what could be a very ridiculous
• 11:39
  scene. Oh no, I it worked.
• 11:41
  But it's a wonderful inversion and the story is the struggle
• 11:44
  between science and magic. The the the science sciences
• 11:48
  hero seemingly using magic only then to explain it's actually a
• 11:53
  branch of science, which is close.
• 11:55
  My eyes. close your eyes, my darling.
• 11:58
  Or three of them, at least. Yes.
• 12:01
  So Venusian poem, I believe. That's the one thing, that's
• 12:05
  another thing I don't like about the doctrine, this one, is that
• 12:09
  he can be sort of charming when he wants to be and he and he
• 12:13
  expects you to have forgotten what an asshole he's been the
• 12:16
  rest of the time anyway, you know?
• 12:17
  I don't think Perry at any point is trying to be likable in this
• 12:21
  though. Like, I think he knows he's
• 12:23
  pompous. Yeah, it just makes.
• 12:27
  I'm just, I'm rooting for the master.
• 12:29
  I don't care who he kills. Oh, no, don't you love the fact
• 12:32
  that the master's been hanging around in this village for so
• 12:34
  long? He's he's inveigled in way, is
• 12:37
  waiting for all the gossip and all the scandals.
• 12:40
  Yeah, I love his big glasses too.
• 12:43
  Very 70s, aren't they? Definitely, yeah.
• 12:44
  It also means when you take off big glasses dramatically, it's
• 12:48
  bigly dramatic. Decadence.
• 12:50
  That's what I see on every side. All this talk of democracy,
• 12:53
  freedom, liberty. What this country needs, Rob, is
• 12:56
  strength, power and decision. I swear I heard Farage saying
• 13:00
  all this recently. Yeah, it's the same.
• 13:03
  All these people, you know, I do.
• 13:05
  I do wonder how many of these people would work vote reform.
• 13:08
  And it'd be probably quite a few, you know?
• 13:11
  Imagine if Roger Delgado was the reform leader.
• 13:14
  I think it would be becoming actually.
• 13:16
  The The Master wouldn't have anything to do with reform.
• 13:19
  He'd use reform, but then he'd kill them all.
• 13:23
  It'd be a bit like that scene in The Sound of Drums.
• 13:25
  You know when he takes out the cabinet he gasses them all.
• 13:27
  Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. Exactly.
• 13:30
  But no, no, not. Nigel is the kind of evil idiot
• 13:36
  who would side with the Master and then find out the hard way
• 13:38
  he shouldn't have done. That's my opinion.
• 13:40
  Another thing I love about the Master is he does try and seduce
• 13:42
  people and then he does try to hypnotise people and then when
• 13:46
  he can't he just uses brute strength.
• 13:50
  Yeah, yeah, we'll get to it because the Masters, the
• 13:52
  Masters, he's a little bit, he's a, he's charmingly rubbish in
• 13:58
  this one. He's got his plan.
• 14:00
  But actually everything falls to pieces really, really quickly
• 14:03
  for him in this one. OK, so but here.
• 14:05
  We go, yes, the finest pick of the occult material in the
• 14:08
  country. You say, OK, it's the great God
• 14:13
  groom withholds so. Now we get our explanation.
• 14:21
  Now, do you think the doctor puts a Begarling case across
• 14:24
  here, or you're not convinced at all?
• 14:27
  Sort of he does sort of in that it's not supernatural because it
• 14:32
  I love this science magic, science magic.
• 14:34
  That is the it's the theme of the story being yelled between 2
• 14:38
  characters at each other. That's fantastic.
• 14:40
  Almost right at the middle of the story.
• 14:42
  Right, Right at the heart of the story.
• 14:45
  Really, what the Doctor's argument boils down to is that
• 14:48
  what's going on isn't supernatural.
• 14:50
  It is natural. It is actually it's phenomenon
• 14:53
  that it's these are naturally occurring phenomena that are
• 14:58
  just outside the knowledge of the characters.
• 15:02
  But what I don't understand, or rather there is a nice
• 15:05
  difference I suppose, between someone who believes it's magic
• 15:08
  rather than not understanding that there is a science behind
• 15:12
  it to happen. Speed beyond them, I suppose
• 15:14
  it's like. She believes it's magic and she
• 15:18
  believes it's tangible. Yeah, that's the thing.
• 15:22
  It's I, I kind of feel the, the arguments here aren't quite as
• 15:28
  sharp as they could be because in many ways, you know, all
• 15:32
  right, the fact you and I are talking now via wires and Wi-Fi
• 15:37
  is miraculous, but it's I. Could not explain to you how
• 15:41
  that happened. The thing why I take it on
• 15:42
  trust, I take it on trust that it's scientific, that it's but
• 15:45
  it is repeatable. We knew it would work and it's
• 15:48
  not, it's not down to our personal wills that it's
• 15:52
  happening. This can you know, we know, we
• 15:54
  know, we, you know, we know enough about the laws of how
• 15:56
  these things work, or just the nature of how our machinery, our
• 15:59
  devices work that we can. There's a conversation, you
• 16:02
  know, technically it could be one of our demented imaginings.
• 16:07
  Well, it could be, but if it's yours, then who the hell am I?
• 16:11
  Glorious. If it's yours, I'll feel very
• 16:13
  sorry for you that you conjured me out, I'm afraid.
• 16:17
  Well, you're, you're clearly what my squadron just needs.
• 16:20
  Look at this. They can't afford a special
• 16:21
  effect, so you're going to get a drawing of precisely what's
• 16:24
  happening. Yeah, we're sort of stuck in
• 16:27
  this big mushroom, he says. But it does, it does literally
• 16:33
  give a great scientific rationale as to why they are
• 16:36
  trapped there, right? Oh yeah?
• 16:39
  Well. Otherwise, why don't they just
• 16:40
  drive out? Again, it's it's science.
• 16:44
  It's science because we're told it's science.
• 16:46
  But there's no science. There's no this is not hard
• 16:49
  sci-fi. No, but it is great that it is a
• 16:52
  literal slideshow, right? Everyone gather around the Hindu
• 16:57
  demon. Yes, with horns.
• 16:59
  Thank you. I mean, it's so funny because
• 17:02
  everyone has an input in this scene.
• 17:04
  That's what's great about it. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:06
  And also the fact they all pre empt him saying with horns
• 17:09
  because they they all know that Doctor's a jerk and that is kind
• 17:12
  of saving grace of the story. Yates goes, I don't get it.
• 17:15
  He goes Well, that's because I haven't finished yet, Captain
• 17:17
  Yates, you know, but. Azar is so influential he's even
• 17:21
  influenced the Egyptian gods, which my God.
• 17:24
  You know, paradise of ours and. My.
• 17:28
  Monster. I mean, he's everywhere.
• 17:31
  But you know, you know what I'm saying about these aliens sort
• 17:34
  of push on humanity. The Jaggaroth did it as well.
• 17:37
  I mean, there's about 5 or 6. I do think we we didn't do a
• 17:40
  March, did we really? The Cybermen killed the well.
• 17:44
  The Jaggaroth created all life on Earth.
• 17:46
  The Cybermen killed the dinosaurs.
• 17:49
  Humanity has been guided by the demons.
• 17:53
  SU tech whoever you know it's it's a lot the.
• 17:56
  Jaggar off is there. You know when that scroll comes
• 17:58
  out? There's a Jaggar off in in
• 18:01
  Egyptian. Times as well, yeah.
• 18:04
  Oh, this thing is wonderful. And then when he can't get his
• 18:07
  own way, spilling out the secrets, in comes box to murder
• 18:10
  somebody. Exactly.
• 18:12
  Oh, we did. We did miss the Doctor calling
• 18:14
  them Damons from Damos. It's the only time.
• 18:19
  Do you object? Well, no, and it's just that
• 18:22
  later on he even he starts calling demons and Azar calls
• 18:25
  himself a demon. So it's.
• 18:28
  What the book really stresses is that Squire Winstanley is a very
• 18:33
  weak man who just wants a pie and a pint and said, you know,
• 18:38
  judge the local fate. That's basically all he wants,
• 18:41
  and that's why he's so malleable to the master.
• 18:46
  I just want a pie and a pint. Oh well, are you malleable, Rob?
• 18:53
  I am quite well for a pint of pint, yes.
• 18:57
  Bloody love a pie with a thick crust.
• 19:01
  So now we're making all of the points.
• 19:03
  We're bringing them all together.
• 19:05
  Can freeze, you can burn, you can.
• 19:09
  Can shrink down a spaceship can grow, all of those things.
• 19:14
  Yes, and they came to to help Homo sapiens kick out
• 19:17
  Neanderthal man, apparently. The Greek civilization, the
• 19:21
  Renaissance, the Industrial Revolution, all inspired by the
• 19:24
  Damons. That's that's a bit of a
• 19:27
  stretch, but hey, let's go with it, you know?
• 19:32
  Thank you miss Orphan. Are you trying to tell me
• 19:34
  they've been pushing along humanity for 100,000 years?
• 19:37
  That's exactly what I'm saying. It's a, it's a very like
• 19:42
  economic scene, right? It's quick to give you all the
• 19:45
  answers. Yeah, and it's great.
• 19:47
  It's done through character conflict as well, not just pure
• 19:51
  exposition, which is great, but really what it does do, it moves
• 19:54
  the goal posts. So it isn't science versus
• 19:57
  magic. It's no, your magic is actually
• 20:00
  a science. You just don't know.
• 20:02
  It's another science, so. Ron, what happens to a story you
• 20:07
  know that isn't going the right way?
• 20:09
  Do you Chuck it in the rubbish bin or do you give it another
• 20:11
  shot? AM.
• 20:14
  Am I being paid to write it by a third party who want it
• 20:17
  regardless in which case we make it work?
• 20:20
  If it's well, maybe the Azar's got pay masters, then let's
• 20:23
  hope. So, well, actually he yeah,
• 20:25
  yeah, I mean, there is something, something, there is
• 20:27
  something of the employee or the man on the ground about Azar.
• 20:30
  No way, isn't there. This is the master giving his
• 20:33
  pitch to the village. He knows dirty secrets.
• 20:36
  You still pattering the grocery bills at the local Gentry?
• 20:40
  Don't. Be don't be rude about the the
• 20:43
  actors they've cast, but they have cast people who look
• 20:46
  suitably. Bread.
• 20:50
  That's, as you said, yeah. Yeah, like, like, you know, they
• 20:53
  and or. In The X-Files episode Home,
• 20:55
  they're not too dissimilar from from that.
• 20:57
  They've done, they've done a good, they've done a good job of
• 21:00
  making, you know, of casting people who, to be honest, who
• 21:03
  look like the kind of people they would be.
• 21:06
  You know what was that line? About where He said, you know,
• 21:08
  imagine your wife is ever going to come back.
• 21:12
  Yeah. Is she hitting her?
• 21:13
  Was that defensive violence he's talking about?
• 21:17
  Yes. Or something else?
• 21:19
  Or is she dead? You know it's.
• 21:21
  That's a great line. It's wonderful because, because,
• 21:24
  because then it's as dark as you want to make.
• 21:26
  It. Yeah, yeah.
• 21:29
  In fact, in terms of scripting, this might be the best episode
• 21:33
  of The Demons, right, I think. Do you know what?
• 21:35
  I think he may have a point there.
• 21:38
  How does the Doctor know the demon as he calls him then will
• 21:41
  appear three times how he just does?
• 21:44
  That's one of the annoying things, is that it's never made
• 21:46
  clear what the Doctor knows about the demons.
• 21:49
  I mean, I think we have to assume there is an off screen
• 21:52
  adventure where he has met the demons before because when he
• 21:56
  heard Devil's End, you know, and all of those things that you
• 21:59
  can't explain is because he's met, you know, he has history
• 22:02
  with them. Yeah, now here's the thing.
• 22:06
  The doctor is radioing the Brig here and he's about to give him
• 22:13
  some instructions, technical instructions about a device that
• 22:20
  he wants Osgood to build. Yes, I feel you're you're
• 22:28
  leading me up a garden path here.
• 22:29
  No, no, no. No, no, it's just that.
• 22:32
  No, it's just that. We'll get to it quite soon, but
• 22:37
  it's here we go with a new 4A condenser unit.
• 22:41
  Yep, they've got one that's all fantastic.
• 22:46
  We're they're going to build a diathermic energy exchanger.
• 22:50
  Sounds technical to me. Yeah, but it's, it's not, it's
• 22:53
  bollocks. It's.
• 22:54
  Most techno Babble isn't Doctor. Who?
• 22:56
  Yeah, but that's the thing. It's techno Babble that will.
• 22:59
  It's magic. These are magic words.
• 23:01
  This is not science. This is not hard sci-fi.
• 23:03
  And this is science fantasy. Again, this is it's a really it.
• 23:07
  But the bubbles magic as well, right?
• 23:09
  So you just find. What it is, But that's, but
• 23:11
  that's the whole, the whole central thesis of this story is
• 23:15
  science versus magic. And it turns out maybe this is
• 23:18
  brilliant actually, but it turns out the magic is actually a form
• 23:21
  of science and the science that the doctor asks Osgood and the
• 23:26
  brick drop for him is a bunch of techno Babble magic, you know,
• 23:33
  so maybe it's brilliant. Maybe it's it's.
• 23:35
  I don't know. I I'm.
• 23:38
  I don't think he's as well thought through as that.
• 23:41
  Yeah, or maybe it's really, really so well thought through
• 23:44
  that I haven't caught up with it yet.
• 23:45
  But the but the doctors science is is just magic words that
• 23:50
  sound scientific. As good as the story is, yeah.
• 23:54
  As good as the script is, yeah, it's being written by a man
• 23:58
  who's producing Doctor Who. Directing Doctor Who.
• 24:01
  He's got a lot on his plate. If some of this stuff falls
• 24:04
  through the cracks, fair enough. Well, it's just, it's just, it's
• 24:07
  really just interesting that what it's not, this isn't
• 24:10
  science versus magic. It's either science versus
• 24:14
  another branch of science, or it's magic versus magic.
• 24:18
  And in some ways, really, I think this isn't science versus
• 24:21
  magic. This is the Doctor's technical
• 24:23
  sounding magic versus the Masters occult sounding magic.
• 24:28
  But it's magic versus magic, really.
• 24:31
  Is that a problem? No, it's, it's a feature, but
• 24:35
  it's but really. Because it's fiction.
• 24:37
  It's all sort of magic, isn't it?
• 24:38
  All of. This.
• 24:39
  No no you can. If you've been hard sci-fi then
• 24:41
  your then your science should be watertight and the the site the
• 24:45
  science in this isn't really science, it's scientific
• 24:48
  sounding gobbledygook. But the amount of sort of
• 24:50
  scientific things that I've seen in in science fiction where I've
• 24:55
  just gone, well, that's utterly implausible.
• 24:57
  That's just magic. And then I learn when I read
• 25:00
  Simon Guria's The Science of Doctor Who and learn that it's
• 25:04
  all based in actual science. I mean, is it not different for
• 25:09
  every person and and your comprehension levels of what
• 25:12
  you're watching? Well, you could potentially,
• 25:17
  yes, but the science shouldn't be this.
• 25:19
  The science is the science, whether you understand it or
• 25:23
  not. Magic.
• 25:25
  Story needs to be more specific then with the detail.
• 25:28
  If your story is about if your story is emphatically about
• 25:32
  science versus magic, then I'd argue yes.
• 25:36
  If it if it really was, this is magic versus magic.
• 25:39
  It's all magic to me, Rob, because I have no comprehension
• 25:42
  of what you're talking about anymore.
• 25:45
  No, I do. I do.
• 25:49
  Oh, this is a wonderful sequence.
• 25:51
  Now Yates gets to be the action hero.
• 25:54
  It's a a brilliantly done action sequence because it's all POV
• 25:59
  shots. Right At points of this fight we
• 26:02
  are being punched by Captain Yeats.
• 26:06
  Yeah, it's pleasingly brutal, actually.
• 26:09
  But it's handheld camera work as well, like.
• 26:11
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's surprisingly modern for
• 26:14
  Doctor. Who?
• 26:15
  It's a helicopter in. The middle of a Christ.
• 26:20
  Actually, I'm getting a bit turned on, sorry.
• 26:23
  Can we move on to this please? Lovely low angle shot of the
• 26:29
  church. As it gets.
• 26:30
  Into the helicopter. The money is all on the screen.
• 26:33
  Yeah, a unit helicopter on a village green, a punch up.
• 26:36
  This is this is good stuff. But because this is Doctor Who,
• 26:40
  unfortunately we have to borrow some footage from James Bond in
• 26:44
  the next episode because we can't blow up a helicopter it.
• 26:48
  Works for me. It is suddenly black and white
• 26:51
  though, isn't it? I've watched this yesterday I
• 26:57
  think. I don't think so.
• 26:58
  Oh, OK, we'll keep an eye out for it.
• 27:00
  Yeah, when we get there. Oh, here we go.
• 27:01
  Start on his motorbike. And again, all the all that
• 27:07
  stuff takes place purely in the village and over a brilliant.
• 27:12
  It's such a small area that it takes place and it's quite
• 27:16
  brilliant. What Doctor Who does a lot as
• 27:18
  well, especially in Series 7 and Series A, is all those scenes
• 27:24
  that are shot in helicopters. They do wonderful aerial shots
• 27:28
  from above of the location work. Look at this look, come in and
• 27:32
  get over Bessie. It's.
• 27:34
  And the shadow, yeah. And beginning the helicopter's
• 27:37
  shadowing as well. It's just brilliant.
• 27:39
  There's a swoop in a minute that covers the scope of where they
• 27:42
  are and it is stylish as hell. Like I remember Anjali Mahindra
• 27:49
  and Sasha Dewan watching this on the behind the sofas, Right.
• 27:53
  And Anjali Mahindra goes, I thought we had a budget increase
• 27:57
  in the new series. I'm starting to think we've
• 28:00
  actually lost some money. And Janet Fielding and Sarah
• 28:05
  Satin again, I don't remember all these stunts and things when
• 28:08
  we were making Doctor Who. Well.
• 28:11
  Yeah, in in their era there's a lot of pointless running around
• 28:15
  in in practical high heeled shoes, which I find it really
• 28:18
  tedious the. Helicopter is literally swooping
• 28:21
  down chasing Bessie. Really dangerous.
• 28:25
  I mean this. Anything with helicopters is
• 28:29
  inherently dangerous. I love these aerial shots man,
• 28:32
  it's so great and it's edited really well as well.
• 28:34
  It cuts straight to Pertwee dunking in Bessie and then
• 28:38
  you've got Yates and a long shot firing bullets from his
• 28:41
  motorbike. Yeah, exactly.
• 28:44
  It's firing. Firing guns while riding
• 28:46
  motorbikes, It's all yeah. Can you imagine why the kids
• 28:51
  were seduced by this in the 70s? Oh, I can.
• 28:54
  Oh, this is this is everything you want from a show called
• 28:58
  Unit. It's just Doctor Who.
• 29:00
  But really I think this this would work as a show called
• 29:03
  Unit. Absolutely, yeah.
• 29:06
  I would have ditched Doctor Who and just watched UNIT then.
• 29:08
  Well, the Doctors definitely a character in the show unit, but.
• 29:12
  Doctor Who Rob is. There you go.
• 29:13
  Yeah. And there we go.
• 29:14
  That's the chopper exploding. Oh.
• 29:15
  No, it wasn't colour. That wasn't colour in colour
• 29:17
  because we could see the oh, look at the Master and he's so
• 29:19
  happy. Yes, I've got that bastard, the
• 29:22
  Doctor. Finally.
• 29:24
  He he's always happy too soon. He's the master is just
• 29:29
  constantly setting himself up for disappointment.
• 29:31
  Yeah. Being happy too soon is a
• 29:35
  problem. Market.
• 29:35
  Absolutely. Sorry Rob, you left yourself
• 29:42
  open. Poor Joe, look at that thrown
• 29:44
  out of her. And now Jo's unconscious.
• 29:47
  It's not Good grief. You know, well, there's
• 29:48
  something weird occurs with Jove now, right in the the next
• 29:52
  manifestation of us, how she's sort of walking about outside
• 29:56
  and she falls against a load of Ivy and I don't know what's
• 29:59
  going on. Then she just sort of flops to
• 30:01
  the floor. When we go to that, it's it's a
• 30:03
  very good form. She really just has faith that
• 30:07
  it's not going to brain her. She she she really face plants
• 30:10
  when it when it does happen. Great.
• 30:13
  The Master, right? It reminds me a bit of Kate,
• 30:15
  O'Mara and the tetrap in Tom and the Rani.
• 30:18
  He's got his fawning sort of monstrous, yes.
• 30:22
  Yeah. Gargoyle next to him.
• 30:24
  I love this. There's a real dramatic relief
• 30:27
  for me that the doctor and the Brig are now going to actually
• 30:31
  come face to face for the first time this story and have a chat
• 30:36
  about what they're doing, about the situation. 20,000 lbs of
• 30:41
  unit helicopter up in smoke. Rob.
• 30:45
  I I do love the fact that he's always got one eye on the
• 30:47
  receipts. You know, I like the explosion
• 30:51
  effects whenever they Chuck something in the barrier.
• 30:55
  That is something, you know, that they do in The X-Files in
• 30:57
  one episode where the accountants come in and start
• 31:01
  toting up all of the stuff, all of the expenses that Mulder and
• 31:05
  Scully have said. They could do a bit more of
• 31:08
  that. I wonder if they'll go down that
• 31:09
  route with War between Land and the sea.
• 31:13
  We'll find out. How much did that enormous tower
• 31:15
  cost in the middle of London? There was a fabulous shot there
• 31:19
  of the the barrier between them. And it lets you know how wide it
• 31:23
  is. Well, they're mirrored either
• 31:25
  side. Yeah, really good.
• 31:27
  It's just very thoughtfully directed this I think.
• 31:29
  Yeah, yeah. So nepotism and UNIT starts
• 31:33
  here. We've got Sergeant Osgood and
• 31:36
  Brigadier Lethbridge. Stuart.
• 31:38
  Is that is that Osgood's father then?
• 31:40
  Yeah, our Osgood. Well, it's, I don't, I don't
• 31:44
  think it's a coincidence. I think something goes seriously
• 31:47
  wrong with the way that particular organization is run.
• 31:51
  All that stuff with her wearing the scarf and that.
• 31:55
  I mean, please, good God. Well, let's not go there.
• 31:59
  We're having such a jolly time talking.
• 32:01
  About if Sergeant Osgood is her dad and he's, you know, he's,
• 32:05
  she's clearly got issues about she's got some kind of daddy
• 32:09
  issue going on that's tied to the doctor and unit and surely.
• 32:13
  She should be wearing a velvet sort of front coat.
• 32:15
  What? Was it Roger Delgado really goes
• 32:18
  for it here. It's fantastic.
• 32:21
  Is this his? Is this his cliffhanger?
• 32:24
  Yeah. Oh, it's so wonderful.
• 32:26
  Go back to the stone, He goes like, look at this shot coming
• 32:30
  out from here. Everyone throw yourself about
• 32:35
  like you're in a Star Trek episode.
• 32:37
  But everyone, we get the car, we get the reaction to Azar's
• 32:41
  appearance from all the cast. We cut to everyone.
• 32:45
  But it's the master, and the master is another part of the
• 32:48
  regular ensemble. That's kind of astonishing,
• 32:51
  right? The.
• 32:51
  Villain gets the cliffhanger. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:53
  Because he's part of the family, whether, you know, you may not
• 32:56
  want to be, but he is. He is part, he's part of the
• 32:59
  family of the show at this point.
• 33:01
  It's a unique Cliff hanger that, but just what I mean, usually
• 33:04
  the villain's threatening. He's not being threatened, you
• 33:08
  know. And just a word for Damaris
• 33:12
  Hazman, who goes, what is it? The demon?
• 33:15
  If he comes out, we shall all die.
• 33:18
  Wonderful. I love that he's cut his
• 33:22
  creditors. Burt, the landlord.
• 33:24
  Toby Heydo would never forgive me if I don't mention the single
• 33:28
  best actor's name. Rolo Gamble playing Squire Win.
• 33:33
  Stanley Rolo. What a name.
• 33:39
  Yes, indeed. That's baffled Barrel.
• 33:47
  I mean, we've got a Chris Wimble there as well and the behind the
• 33:51
  scenes team and a. Yeah, but yeah.
• 33:53
  But do you love anyone enough to give me the last wimble?
• 33:56
  I'm. Going to call it on that.