Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Adam Campbell | Reinvention, Resilience & Innovation

Transcript

Adam Campbell | Reinvention, Resilience & Innovation · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, guys?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, James Lauriello, and today we've got a really exciting one for you guys.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I am so excited.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It is an honor and a privilege to bring this conversation to you with none other than legend Adam Campbell.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: The Arc'teryx athlete was kind enough to give an hour or so of his time to hop on the podcast and chat all about what he's been up to over the last few years.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I know if you guys have probably listened to a bunch of episodes, possibly with free trail and single track with Adam in the past.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Adam's had some terrible hardships in his life and we do reflect on some of those and talk about some of the things that he has gone through in his past.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: But also we talk about what Adam's been up to in the last few months to last few years Getting back into racing.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: We talk a little bit about his new role with Arcteryx and just what he's got planned for, what he's got coming up over the summer and in the future, some races that he would like to do to get possibly back into hard rock and things like that.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: So really exciting, really fun episode, the legend himself.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Like I said, guys, this was such an exciting episode for me.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: It was an honor and a privilege Adam is such a good dude.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Just a really fun conversation.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I hope this is the first of many down the line, so I hope you guys enjoy this one Without further ado.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: None other than Mr Adam Campbell.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Alright, Adam Campbell, welcome to the Steep stuff podcast, my friend.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm doing well, thanks, yeah, no, it's uh, it's great to be on on the podcast and uh, yeah, I know I love the name.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Steep stuff's what attracts me both in, you know, running, climbing, skiing.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm totally appropriately named podcast.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I've been listening for a while.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, thanks for uh, thanks for connecting.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: No, it was honestly a pleasure to connect and I really appreciate, um, you know, I I think you and I first started chatting back like during the air at the time of, like meet the Minotaur back in June, um, when we did some coverage for that race and you know, we were kind of highlighting and just talking about all these just bad-ass mountain runners in the Pacific Northwest and like British Columbia area and uh, yeah, it just it's blossomed into a lot of really solid conversations since then.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: So it's a it's a genuine pleasure to have you on and finally get to uh, just kind of chat and, you know, continue to tell your story and everything from there.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, right on, yeah, thanks, yeah.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, for those who don't know, minotaur is a really really cool race.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Um, meet the Minotaur is a sky running race and um, it's actually in in.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's in Alberta, which is in the Canadian Rockies, so it's actually about 600 miles away from where I am now.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Uh, but I used to live in the Canadian Rockies and so it's a place near and dear to my heart and it's a true mountain race.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: You know, like really, really technical, um, I think it's.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It's maybe about it's like 20 or 21 miles, but you know it has, uh, oh, like I think like 11,000 feet of vert and like you know some proper like ridgeline scrambling, some like hands on feet stuff and some like really like kind of bomber scree descents and, yeah, you know called the shoe shredder, which is a totally appropriately named descent because it's also limestone there, so the rock is extra sharp, oh, wow.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: And because the, the Canadian Rockies, get really cold in the winter, the rock tends to exfoliate and you know, so it gets, you know, gets cold and obviously like splinters really easily, and especially that part of the range is especially brittle rock.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: So you end up getting these like massive scree descents, which are super fun, but definitely on the more technical side of things and, you know, definitely a good spot for a gator, put it that way.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I've heard so many good things about that race I've had, quite obviously, in I'm in the front range of Colorado, so I've had plenty of friends and teammates go up there and have performed very well and I don't know, for me, it's got it's.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: It's definitely has my attention and something I definitely want to probably see if I can fit into the calendar for 2025.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd recommend everybody go there.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: It's a really it's a small town and there's actually it's like a lot of these situations.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: There's actually a run store in that town that's called Spry Active that carries all the like the raddest mountain stuff Like they're all incredible mountain athletes and they've actually really curated a great product line and it's their race course and they literally built most of the trails that you race on, which is actually cool, so yeah.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: It's funny you say that that's something actually Jackson Jackson Collett said to me um, back when he was on the pod.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Is that?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Like you know, the course itself was only built in the last like few years, so it's like tailor made for this epic race.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: So oh yeah, and it's a nat and it's a natural.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: It's a natural loop as well, which to me, always has much more attraction as a mountain race, as opposed to, you know, kind of making you go out and do these weird out and backs just to get to a set distance.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: It's more.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: This is the distance of the route, you know, and who cares if it's 20 miles or 25,.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: You right, 22.3.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: That's not where the difficulty comes from.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: The difficulty comes from how long you're out there.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no for sure, and you.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: It's crazy too because, like you do race a lot of these like.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: The best example I could give is like one of the most aesthetic like loops that I find really interesting.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: It's like the rut 28k, for instance, but if you were to do the 58k, there's like it's like or, excuse me, the 50k.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: It's much more, I wouldn't say contrived, but there's a lot more added on to it to make it a 50k, if you will.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: So there's just like more.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's, it's.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I love these like aesthetic.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Uh, 28 to like 30k races that are like perfect lines or you know, or rather than like an out and back or anything like that.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting for me, I actually find that you can differentiate.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: You know, some of you comes from like a mountain pursuit background versus more of a traditional run background, based on their kind of love of metrics, you know.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: So if you're really drawn to the numbers and you don't have to run my hundred miles or a hundred K, you probably come from a bit more of a traditional run background, or it's like what's my minute per mile pace?
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Or you can come from more of a mountain background.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: It's like let's go run.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: You know xyz peaks together, um, and you know, honestly, like a six mile run could take you two hours.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: You know, if you're in like depending on the type of terrain you're in, even if you're a 30 minute 10k runner you know exactly exactly so, yeah, it's.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Uh, I find that to be kind of you know, it forces you to think beyond the the standard metrics, which I appreciate stylistically.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: It's interesting too, like it's it's, and it's funny too, because it does give you a lot of insight to how people think and just like how their backgrounds are.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Well, listen, listen, man, I want to get into a little bit of, uh, your background.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like most of the people probably listening to this podcast know who Adam Campbell is.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: You've been around the game for a very long time.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Those numbers are getting smaller and smaller.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: No, dude, you've been.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I mean you've been.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I mean you tell me when did you first start.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I mean I know of your background, but maybe tell the audience and then we'll get into it.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I'll tell the audience and then we'll get into it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: So I started out in endurance sports.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I actually grew up in West Africa, I grew up in Nigeria and from a young age I was always like a fast runner and I was a guy who liked to run extra laps at soccer practice or that kind of stuff.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time on the beach and you go for these beach jogs and for whatever reason, I really like that.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And, um, my family would also spend a lot of time in Southern Spain, and so I grew up hiking in the mountains of Southern Spain.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: They're not big peaks, but it's still, you know, quite mountainous terrain and quite technical, and some of my earliest memories are going for, like you know, walks in the mountains with my dad and I just I found that to be a really maybe I'm still like trying to claim my dad's attention or something Psychological dive into that, but no, that was when I first really enjoyed moving in the mountains.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: It was from a young age.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And then I moved back to Canada, which is where I'm from, where my parents are from, and I started cross-country running and cross country skiing in high school and that's when I got more into structured, organized sport and ended up, you know, on my university varsity swim team, track team and Nordic ski team and then I was also doing triathlon at the time.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: So I was like I basically wasted my my undergrad degree doing sports because I was all these variety of teams and I've always enjoyed doing a lot of different.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: So I basically wasted my undergrad degree doing sports because I was in all these variety of teams and I've always enjoyed doing a lot of different sports.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: And I ended up making the Canadian junior triathlon team at that time and getting to train with some of the best triathletes in the world.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So, like Simon Whitfield was the Olympic gold medalist, I ended up being a two-time Olympic medalist and so I was training as part of his training group and so I got to learn from some of the best triathletes in the world and I was trying to qualify for the Beijing Olympics.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: And in about 2006, I realized that it wasn't quite going to happen for me.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I just didn't have the right skill set and physiology for it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: But I actually remember at that time I picked up some running magazines Runner's World or something and I remember seeing this picture of Scott Jurek running in the Redwood Forest.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know why this picture like drew me, but I remember he had like a long ponytail.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: He had this like little Clif Bar crop top shirt.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: It was like Patagonia Clif Bar, montreal Clif Bar or something A little crop top shirt with holes in it.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: So Jim Walmsley was not the first to do that and he was running with his dog.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: He was living in Seattle at the time and just through the Redwoods and I was like and I was reading about his training and I've always loved training I was like, oh man, he gets to do what I do, but he's kind of free.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I had a lot of structure in my program and he seems like he's just so free and he gets to just go run in the mountains.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I was like I want to do that and so I looked up some local trail races and end up doing a small local race.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: We had this local race series called the Five Peaks Series, which is across Canada, and did one of those races and ended up making the Canadian mountain running team and then went and raced at the World Long Distance Mountain Running Championships and ended up having a good result there.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: It was at the Jungfrau Marathon in Switzerland oh wow, and that kind of just snowballed started getting attracted and doing longer and longer distance races.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: First 50K was the Chuckin' Up 50K, where I actually got to meet Scott, which was super cool.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: I got to turn around and shake his hand and tell him that I was here because of him, which was really cool, and Jeff Rose won that race and I ended up kind of in a sprint finish with um eric skaggs.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, it was pretty awesome.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Another legend yeah, it was really cool.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, yeah.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And then from there did my first uh 50 mile race, where I actually ended up running off the front with anton kropichka at uh white rim, 50 miler and about 25 miles in.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I remember turning to him and being like, hey, how are we doing here?
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: And he's like we're about 30 or 40 minutes under the course record pace.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I think we're doing pretty well.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And then my T bands just exploded on me because I just by that point I hadn't really been training, like I was really just learning one like sports nutrition wasn't really a huge thing, so it was was, you know, kind of fueling on nothing and I just didn't have the legs to be able to handle it.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Um, but ended up signing up for ccc even next year and doing a little bit better prep for that and ended up finishing second at ccc, which was, um, that was kind of my first intro to like the bigger world of trail running really and, um, yeah, it kind of took off from there wow, dude, dude, what an amazing, like storied, I don't know.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Just, you've lived so many lives, I feel like, in this sport, so it's just interesting to kind of hear how you got into it, like I don't know what you've been and since, like what you've been up to and where it's going.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: So one of the things that really struck me, and even the sense like you and I started chatting like back in the summer, like you did a few, you're like took a little break and you're kind of like back to racing now, like you raced what?
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Three times in 2024 and you dabble a little bit at Minotaur and then you did like two other races.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Like how, how has that experience been, kind of taking a little break and kind of coming back to it.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's been good.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So I broke my back and my hip in 2016.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I had a bad climbing fall.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I was essentially soloing, we were scrambling, but it was in very high consequence terrain and I ended up falling a couple hundred feet and broke my back and my hip.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So that really kind of changed, basically how running feels for me these days.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I was still running fairly fast when that happened, but I have feels for me these days.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I was still running fairly fairly fast when that happened, but, um, I have a bunch of nerve issues.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I can't really feel my toes.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: So I just I can't run to the same degree that I that I used to, and especially really fast stuff, and I'm also 45 and I've been doing this since I was 17.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: So also what was on the body, um, so it's hard to pull apart what's what.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: And then, or am I just using it all as an excuse because I don't want to train as hard?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, so I I was, I was finding that running was just feeling a little bit uncomfortable and, um, but I discovered last year that as part of my or sorry, yeah, a year and a half ago, as part of my healing process from breaking my hip, somehow I'd grown a bunch of extra bone in my hip socket and I essentially had a like a five centimeter, like a three inch dagger growing off the bottom of my, uh, of my hip bones, into my, into my quad.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Wow, and so that was.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: It was really impeding my range of motion, obviously, um, so I ended up having that removed and, despite still having some of the nerve stuff, I found that all of a sudden, running downhill wasn't nearly as painful anymore.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: So I got motivated to race again, and you know I love the shorter races.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Um, actually, like kind of being head to head racing and also being a year, like less than a year, out from surgery, I didn't want to sign up for any more ultras.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: I thought it'd be a little bit too traumatic and I wanted to learn and see if I could get fast again.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: You know, the first thing that goes you get older and is your speed, and I've always liked running fast.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Um, even though I ended up running a hundred miles later.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Race like hard rock or speed is definitely not, you know, we're really going all that fast in those, but um, so, yeah, I raced minotaur.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I ran minotaur I the day before minotaur, a friend of mine invited me to go.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: We ended up doing a like this really crazy ice climb where you repel um into this ice cave and climb like over 200 meters out of this ice cave up the in which forms year round oh, wow so, yeah, I started, I ended up doing like an eight hour day, you know, with a ton of ice climbing the day before a Minotaur, so it was not exactly the ideal race.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So I kind of suffered my way through that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: My quads, my calves were super tight because ice climbing is really hard on your, your calves.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but then from there I ended up doing a few other you know, local races that are, you know, on the more technical side of things, the more mountain running side of things, which is always kind of where my heart's at, and yeah.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: So it was really fun to get back in there, back in the community and, um, the hard thing is, I've done a lot of these races in the past and so I have a real benchmark of where I used to be versus where I am now and I'm not as fast as I used to be.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I mean that's totally fine.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what is so?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: How's training going then?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Kind of like now that you've kind of I wouldn't, I would say almost like, fix this problem in the hip and things like that, obviously you've got a lot of, probably, scar tissue and a lot of issues from the accident, but like how's training going now that you're kind of pretty much healthy and kind of getting back into it Like what's that been?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good, that's a good question, um, I mean.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: So.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, training means that you actually have some structure to what you're doing.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I exercise a lot, you know, like I like to move in the mountains.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I don't have a ton of structure with what I'm doing, but I basically do, you know, like one harder workout a week, uh, one or two longer efforts a week, and then everything else is kind of easy.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: And, um, I get easily distracted by rock climbing, uh, in the summer as well, and so I, you know I like to go rock climbing a little bit with my friends and um, and then in the winter I'm mostly ski touring, cause that's the easiest on my body, and do some schema racing but also enjoy more adventure style skiing and some steep skiing and stuff.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of a mix of those activities.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: And, um, I'm in the gym two days a week and I find, you know, if I keep that up consistently, I find my body works a lot better.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Um, so I, even if it's just 30 minutes of just kind of mobility work, and find being diligent with that does make a difference.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: And also staying on top of the shorter intervals, uh, trying to keep some pop in my in my stride makes a really big difference as well, especially as I'm getting I'm getting older now because I've done so much, so many miles of just kind of jogging, essentially like mountain jogging.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to find things to stay fast and I'm really lucky I live beside um like alex ricard, who's one of canada's top top mountain runners, and it's funny cause we're kind of on the opposite end of the um.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: You know the physiology spectrum and so you know asking him what he would recommend I do to try to get some of that pop back in my stride, and so giving me like stair intervals and like really steep, short punchy stuff and um, I it, it kills me, but I I do notice a big difference if I stay on top of that stuff.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: So it's crazy I have to back.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: They take it way back, though.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: You know it's like I have to be okay doing like six times 20 seconds, whereas my normal interval for me is like 20 minutes.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: You know, every 10 minutes.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's crazy.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: It's crazy like as you age, because I'm I'm like in my 30s now I'm 33, turning 34 but it's just the little things that I've noticed to stay on top of like make a huge difference, man.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Like just like two to three times in the gym a week, and you know, it doesn't have to be crazy hours or a lot of time.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: But same thing, throwing in strides and incorporating a lot of these like little fast things, like seem to just like work like vast wonders, as opposed to just going out and running zone one, zone two for hours and hours in the mountains and just hoping for the best you know I actually have to force myself to do like flatter runs as well, because I find that that really helps my turnover to try and do one or two flatter runs a week where I'm, you know, as you say, doing strides at the end, but not just because I live right at the base of the, the chief in Squamish, which is kind of one of our local, local mountains, and you know it's um, you know it's more or less a three mile round trip, but like 1800 feet, but like quite technical and quite steep and just so easy for me to default to go and run like run, you know, hike.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: That essentially.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Um cause.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I like the views at the top but, um you know, force myself to run or do some like flatter and some pavement running as well, just to keep some of that.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Turnover does make a really big difference, for sure.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Do you think, given and we can get into your past with hard rock and stuff like that, do you think maybe in the future it's something you'll throw your name in the hat back in for and cause?
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I know you were out, you were in Silverton last summer, weren't you?
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So one of my really good friends, andy Reed um, was racing and Andy has been a huge um.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: He's a very good friend but he's been a big support for me.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: He's actually the doctor.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: He's a family well, he's a sports med, doc Um, and he's the one who found my my hip injury, for instance, and instance.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm really really close to that and we've done some really fun bikepacking trips together and some fun climbs and scrambles and stuff and so when he got in, it was awesome to go there and help support him and I got to pay some over Handy's peak, which was sick and he was really struggling, so I had to put down some tough love to get him up on his dirt naps and over the mountain.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Do you think maybe in the future it's something you'd want to throw your name back in the hat for?
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: And try to come back.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean hard rock would be a great race to do.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I'd love.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Of all the races in North America the, the ultras that's the only one I see myself doing.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I might have to do one to qualify for it, but there's a number of really cool races like that over in Europe as well.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Um, you know that are just really really hard and challenging.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And so maybe doing one of those races where, um, if I'm going to do a hundred, a hundred miler, I have to be really emotionally invested in it, Um, and the beauty of the course, or making it a destination style race, would give me that emotional I I cause it.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Making it a destination style race would give me that emotional impact, cause it takes so much energy.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: You know you really have to want to be there when you're doing those things.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: There's so many excuses to stop and to not be there.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: So if you don't, if there's any reason to not be there, you will find it and it will like eat at you.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: So you have to be super psyched, uh, to want to push yourself around the course.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: That's so true, man, that's so true.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: And it's like especially I don't know whether you do it in the.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Alps, or whether you do it here like there's just I don't know.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to really pick the right thing really quick.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So this is something I've been I don't know.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I was on a run semi recently with um Wes Thurman and he's a hard rocker from back in the day and he had brought up the story of you getting struck by lightning on.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Was it on handy speak?
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Can you tell that story?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Because I've just like I like, googled it to find like and like oh my god, this is legendary, like, wow, yeah I know um, so it's.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of those, it's legendary.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: It's also, you know, kind of an unfortunate thing, because traumatizing yeah yeah, well, it's not.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: It wasn't so much traumatizing more as, like you know, I kind of I, you know, ultimately, for lack of better words, I kind of fucked up, you know, like you don't want to be in the mountains in the middle of a lightning storm.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: So I'm not proud of it, you know, even though it now has some like legendary status or legendary, but it has some like lore to it.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Um, so what happened is I was running hard rock.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Uh, it was my first time running hard rock.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I was in third place.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I just picked up my pacer, a really good friend of mine, aaron Height, and we were making our way up to Handy's and it was having obviously a great day.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: It was far exceeding my expectations of the day.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: And as we're making our way up to the peak, you could see storms forming off in the distance and I even remember like commenting to me like, oh, that looks really beautiful.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: But it was like but it's way over there, nothing to worry about, you know.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: But it's way over there, nothing to worry about, you know, it's like clear skies above us, but of course it sort of, you know, rolled through the sun.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: It was just starting to set as we were getting to the top of Handies and all of a sudden that top of the mountain is really exposed.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: It's like a big dome and there's not a lot of rock cover or anything.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: And so, as we were getting, we were maybe, I don't know, a couple of hundred meters from the summit, maybe a hundred meters from the summit.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: We actually saw the summit get struck by lightning and you know, it started to get really rainy and quite cold.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: So, you know, put our, you know we put our headlamps on by that point and had our rain jackets on and we didn't have any where where there was coverage where we were, and so we thought our best course of action was to get up and over and try to get to somewhere.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Treeline or something, some best course of action was to get up and over and try to get to somewhere um, tree line or something, some tree line or shelter on the other side.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: And, um, you know, of course, you know, um, you know, lightning doesn't strike the same place twice.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: So we're like we just thought we're good.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Um, so we get to the summit and all of a sudden sound like a mortar shell went off and both Aaron, like, all of a sudden I look up and or, both Aaron and I are on the ground and I look over at Aaron, um, my headlamp was was out at that point and I, you know, asked him if he was okay.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, you know, I was like, like, how are you doing?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, that was kind of crazy, but we were both okay.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: And but we're like we need to get the heck out of here.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but my headlamp wasn't working.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: So we got up and Aaron ran behind me and sort of lit up the trail from behind me.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I did have a spare headlamp with me, but we didn't want to mess around with it.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: We wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible and so we ran down until we could get behind a boulder and I pulled out my spare headlamp and I was like are you actually okay?
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, I'm fine.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: And he's like, are you?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I was like, how are you?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I was like I'm okay.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I was like I was really messed up.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: But we then said, well, let's not tell anybody at the aid station that happened because we don't want to get pulled from the race for, like, medical reasons, because I was in third and I was feeling fine.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: So what happened is there was a ground strike beside us and it went obviously through the ground and it had enough energy in it that it roasted my headlamp Wow, a pencil now headlamp.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, roasted it.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: And, um, so that headlamp didn't work anymore, which is kind of crazy, but, yeah, really lucky.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Um, you know it could have been much more serious and you know we were definitely in a place that we wouldn't normally recommend anybody be in the mountains.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: And and that's the one thing with racing just because the course goes through somewhere, you know in retrospect maybe it would be better off to shelter under a rock before the peak.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: But once again, you also never know and it's very easy to analyze with hindsight.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, and it's an interesting place to be in too, especially being, you know, in contention for the podium.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: On the race you're hunting probably second place.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: At that point it's like what do I do?
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: I know the competitor in me is going to go for it.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Right, you know no podium spot is worth risking your life, or your or your you know, or your or your cruise life in that situation either.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: So definitely no, that's true, that's true.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: But what, what a story, what an experience.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And just yeah, it's always interesting to me to hear these, like you know, because I I'm in Colorado, I'm on the front range and, just to hear you know, I I interact with a lot of uh in Colorado Springs.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of old timers and like, just like hard rockers from you know the last 10 to 20 years that are still around and you know we'll tell some stories and just cool stuff that's happened in the past and so that was one of the ones that just like was like oh man, this is a good question.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I got to ask him in that same race there was a Japanese runner Um, I don't remember what his name was, but he was running.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: He was running down, I want to say into, into, tell your ride and he had some rock fall, fall and like smack his head really badly, ended up having to get like bandaged up and maybe even get some stitches in his head in the middle of the race.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Oh my god it's pretty wild.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a wild and tough race man, that's so hard that Killian can't run it with one arm.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: So was that the year he dislocated his shoulder as well, or no?
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: No, he dislocated his shoulder in 2017.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: 2017.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, killian did win that year.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Um, the year that I got struck by lightning and that was one of the cool things about that race that year is there was a lot of.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: It was the first year when, like, a truly elite field came together because he had Killian there, you had Tim Olson, um, you had Dakota.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I think um me Mike, not Mike Wolf, but uh.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Mike foot in there Maybe what was in the race.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, there was a number of like higher profile is Julian Shorya on hard rock and um UTMB and anyway, yeah, so there's a number of like higher profile athletes at that race and so that added to the you know, the element of like fun to um to be in the mix there.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Can you maybe talk a little bit about, like your cause.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: You've had this.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: What a journey.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I mean you go from third place and then having this horrific injury falling and then coming back not so long after and running the race again.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Can you maybe talk about like just that, um, you know, having to call your way back from, just mentally and physically, from this devastating injury, and coming back to the race and then actually doing it, you know, at finishing.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I broke my back.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Um, I was out in the Rogers pass in British Columbia with Dakota Jones and friend Nick Elson trying to do this big Alpine link up of a number of peaks and, um, you know, we weren't, we weren't very far into the tourist and I had my accident and, um, as you know, as I said, I broke my my T8 to T11 vertebra and I broke my iliac crest.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So I had a pin in my hip and then I had two metal rods in my back and you know, obviously it changed my life quite a bit, you know, in a number of ways.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Some positive, you know, it actually brought me together with Laura, who eventually became my wife, and so that was like a very big positive from that accident.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: But you know, I had always relied on my body as my physical outlet and all the emotional outlet as well.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: And all of a sudden you have this devastating injury and you've lost the one coping skill you have.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: But it made me realize that I needed to have a much richer internal life essentially, you know.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: So I started doing more meditation, more writing, and those things have served me really well later in life, but during that time I was still also kind of looking for meaning and purpose.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: And the Hard Rock lottery came up and, for whatever reason, I threw my name in it and in December of that year, so I broke my back August 31st In December, my name gets pulled in the Hard Rocker lottery.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh dear Lord, I was still in a wheelchair.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I was like it's maybe not ideal, I was actually in a wheelchair at that point.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I'd been out of a wheelchair for a month.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I'd just gone for my first ski tour, but, like ski tour being a easy, like walk on skis, and um, I was like, oh my goodness, this is maybe a little ambitious, but I mean, never hurts to try.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And so I actually reached out to Jason Koop um and just asked him how he would approach training, given where I was at and us not knowing what I'd be able to do.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: And so he helped me come up with some structure, so mostly so I wouldn't overdo it in the buildup and, you know, help adapt the training a little bit.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So that was a really cool, interesting process.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: But mostly it was just an excuse to really force rehab and to get me out and start hiking quite a bit sooner and maybe even doing some light running.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: And so I ran hard rock um in July and by that point I was actually feeling pretty good.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Um, you know I had obviously a lot of residual fitness and you know I know how to push through pain pretty well, which may or may not have been a good thing.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: And, um, but it it ended up actually taking a huge emotional toll on me just because I suffered so much and it hurt me so much to do it and I, I think I actually kind of set my recovery, my overall recovery, back by doing something so difficult so soon after.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Um, I don't think I was emotionally.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I may be doing it for the wrong reasons, you know what I mean.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I think I may have run hard rock that year to kind of prove to others that I could still do it, um, maybe even to myself, but it, I don't know, it wasn't, even though I told myself when I was telling people that I was just there to experience the race, I really wasn't.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I was, I was.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I kind of showed up wanting to compete, because it's really hard to turn that part of my brain off.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And that was definitely the wrong approach because I ended up going harder than I should have at the start, um, which caused once again I've never suffered that badly Um and had that big of a mental struggle and I think that kind of put some barriers up to me racing again just cause I hurt so bad and I was like I don't actually know if I want to feel like that again.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, man, you went to the depths of your soul.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Man, oh my God.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I really did.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: And I mean, the funny thing too is I was with my friend, uh, nick Elson, who's you know this total like dark horse crusher, monster, total monster, and I remember, you know know, he was pacing me for like 20 miles and it took us like eight hours to do the 20 miles.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I was like I was just feeling so bad, like nick has never moved this slowly in the mountains ever.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I was like stumbling around and yeah, it was hard and I kind of, and I kind of quit mentally as well at that point, just because I, I was like you know, I, I, just I, I ran out of reserves basically.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Well, man, like I just can't imagine, like how you must've felt at that finish line, just like overcoming the last, however many months of just destructive turmoil, not just to your body, but just like mentally, um, you must've been just like I don't know just like, how did that feel?
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: You tell me you know kind of process, the accident, you know, in terms of going to rehab and therapy and stuff.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they necessarily did, and you know they saw me falling.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I think they were fairly certain they were coming to a body recovery when they saw me, which is incredibly traumatic.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: And so to be able to be there and sort of show them that I was okay really meant a lot to me.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Um and so there and also, just, you know, to be back in that community and the amount of support that you get I've run Hard Rock three times so you end up having some really deep bonds with everybody there so that really meant a lot to me.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: So it was cathartic in a lot of ways.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I think if I could have just experienced the finish without experiencing the previous like 95 miles, it probably would have been good, I'm sure.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was just.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: You know it was like.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: You know it's like a lot of things in life it was.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: It was two things, you know it was.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: It was this incredibly cathartic moment and it was also deeply traumatizing oh yeah, you know so both things happen at the same time, which is kind of life, you know it's.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, interesting man, wow so and just like what a chapter in your life, and like what a chapter is like in your life as an athlete too.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: It's just I don't know it's.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: It's cool how that the history of that race and the story of that race is just so intertwined with your story, like as an athlete.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: It's interesting um yeah, which is why I'm drawn potentially going back oh, dude, I would.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I would love to see you go back.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: It would be, it would be sweet, um.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: All right, so I'm going to shift gears a little bit if you wouldn't mind.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: So, one of the we had a phone chat not too long ago, um, regarding some, we've talked about some stuff with our tarix.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Um, maybe talk about your with Arcteryx right now, and also one of the things I want you to tell too that I found really interesting was the story of how you got connected with them as a brand way back in the day before they became this giant global brand that they are now.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, so that's kind of a cool story.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: So I mentioned at the start of the this you know this chat that I I ran the young frown marathon back in.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I try to remember what year it was.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I want to say it was 2006.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was either 2006.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was the end of 2006 or 2007, I don't really remember, um, one of those two years.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And, uh, when I got back from this race I've done all these like local races around here and you had like a hundred people there's like a bluegrass band playing at the finish line, maybe they're, you know, they might be handing out like you know, like a t-shirt or something.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: And I go to this, um, this race in Switzerland and there's 3000 people racing this mountain marathon.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: The race was super weird.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: You actually started in front of a hooters but then finished on a glacier.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was crazy.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: And as you're running, there's this tram that follows you and everybody outside the tram was cheering and you know it was just like I had.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I had a quite a good result there, um, and so it was.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: It was just this crazy thing.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this is what the future of trail running and mountain running is probably going to be like.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: So I got back to Canada and I'd had the benefit of having been a sponsored athlete as a triathlete in the past and knowing some athletes who really treated sport as their profession, and so I got to learn from them about how really to be a professional athlete and all the other stuff that entails other than just being fast.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: And back then being a professional athlete really meant being fast and appearing in magazines and stuff, whereas that's kind of shifted a little bit over over the time over the years.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so I literally sent an email to info at our tarixcom, cause I knew them as like a local brand making incredible product that I love from.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: You know my date, from my like mountain life, and I was like um.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Literally in the email I said, um, you know, mountain and trail running is really starting to take off as a sport.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I know a number of your staff and employees like to trail run.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Have you guys ever considered getting into the mountain running space?
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: And you know whatever, just press, send, you know like info at our church like who knows.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Like a week later I get an email back from the head of sports marketing at our charics saying, hey, adam, I was just forwarded your message.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: You know, kind of know a little bit of who you are.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Followed you some of the local races?
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Um, we've been talking internally about this like how would you like to come in and have a meeting and talk to us about some of the products we've been developing?
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: And I was like, well, that was a great email and yeah.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: So I went in and they showed me their first prototype run jackets and shorts and you know, they were yeah, okay, yeah, they were great.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: And I gave them a bunch of feedback on product and they gave me a few samples and same thing, I did some wear testing and just kept sending them like really in-depth emails about, um, how the product was.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: And you know, um, a couple months later I get in email saying, hey, you know you've been doing a great job here.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: How would you like to help?
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, um, and so I got my first athlete contract in uh, that was 2007.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Wow, which is pretty rad to be the brand for that one.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what, um, yeah, and so.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: So I've kept that roll up and over that time our Terrix has kind of dipped its toe in and out of mountain run and trail running, because they have the same parent company as Salomon.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: So it's Amersport is the parent company and, you know, I think there was a little bit of yeah.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: They're just trying to figure out whether or not it's a lane they wanted to play in, because Salomon was already, you know, obviously making some of the best product in the world at the times especially, and so I had Sal art, solomon footwear and then Arterix apparel and in 2016,.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: So, right after my accident, arterix started to make footwear in a more serious way and they asked if I'd be interested in helping work on their design and development side of the footwear program and so went full bore there and so I've been doing that for a number of years.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And then two years ago, um, I got offered a the footwear program kind of.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: We were working um up to that point really closely with solomon um, using a lot of their um you know design and development concepts and you know same a lot of their factories and things.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: And it was decided about two years ago that we were going to split and Arcteryx is going to start making things independent of Solomon, still doing some resource sharing across the brand, but for the most part.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: They're going to be two really separate entities for the first time, and so I was asked if I'd be interested in coming in and doing athlete insights and product testing.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: So all of our product comes from athlete insights.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: So we gather a bunch of athletes and core users, you know, ask them what they're liking with their current product, what, you know, what could be improved upon, what they're seeing as trends like, what direction things should go, and from there we come up with a product brief.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: So that's essentially what I do is I am there from the start of a product trying to come up with some, you know, basically passing off some ideas to designers about future, some problems for you to solve, and then they come up with a design concept.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: You then start making some first prototypes.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Then I give those out to our athlete testers, who then go and try to break them in the mountains.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: You find out where they're breaking and then you bring it back and you tweak them and, um, that whole process takes about uh, 24 to 36 months from the first ideation to when it actually goes to market.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, cool.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so you've kind of now taken on this, like this role, as is a team captain, is the head of the team for the for the athletes, Like how does that work?
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um, footwear, our footwear program, has been slowly increasing.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Like a lot of things.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: We, you know, we take our time, we try to, like you know, tweak and refine and, um, you know, footwear is now one of of the sort of the core pillars at Arcteryx and we're really invested quite heavily into footwear, and one of the main areas to invest in footwear is through mountain run and, um, we've had a small but mighty mountain run team for a while, but we're looking to expand that mountain run team going forward.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: So, as part of that, yeah, I was asked to be the team captain, and so what the run team captain means is I work closely with our sports marketing team as well as our brand team.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: So, one that means in-house.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of like the credibility police, you know.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: So when they show us stuff, it's like does this pass the sniff test?
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Is this, you know, a run athlete?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: How do you feel?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Is this?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Like you know, is this kind of?
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Is it too?
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Is it, is it stay, is it?
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: authentic, essentially right yeah yeah, does it speak to you as a runner, um, and especially the style of runner you know there's a lot of different types of runners but, like is a more, you know, pure mountain run focused athlete.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Does this speak to you?
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: And so that's I help with that kind of brand language.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And then also, as I say, we're trying to expand our run team, so it's helping currently identify potential new athletes to approach who fit the kind of Arcteryx, um, um, you know, it's like a brand brand.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, or are you want?
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: to.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: You want athletes to speak to your brand.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: You know it's like a brand brand, yeah, yeah.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you know, or are you want to?
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: You want athletes to speak to your brand, you know, is how they move in the mountains.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: The way that we view mountain travel One way isn't right or wrong, it's just this is the way that we, you know, we enjoy it and enjoy day in the mountains with, Like that to me like kind of if I want my teammates to be people I'd want to go in the mountains with, so are they, you know, relatively safe?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: You know, are they good storytellers?
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Are they good people, you know?
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Are they doing interesting things?
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: That's really important.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: But ultimately it's like how you do things matters a lot more than what you do, if that makes sense how you do things matters a lot more than what you do, if that makes sense.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so many people doing really really great things out there, but some people are just about the wind, just about, you know, crushing it, and that's awesome, but are you giving back to your community at the same time?
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: And that, to me, is like what the mountain ethic is all about.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: You know kind of, you know you have some self autonomy, but you're also looking out for other people with you in the mountains.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Um yeah.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: So I love that now, and you know what, dude, I think it's too.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: You just hit on so many, I don't know, so many introspective things for me, like I I think the way, don't get me wrong.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of competitive athletes out there that want to win the race, but also there's, I don't know, what you do in the mountains is like your own artistic expression in a lot of ways, and I can see where you're going with that, with looking for the the right people that express the right things.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know it just makes sense.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I get it, yeah Well, so I think ultimately, to me it's it is is what you're doing in the mountains, your highest expression of mountain run for some people that is athlete or sorry, that's racing, and that may be racing at some times a year, and then other times a year maybe personal adventures, but for other athletes it might be, you know, a run could mean every time I go running I have to have four points of contact, and that's your form of running.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: You know it's.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Some people would call it scrambling or soloing, but if you're approaching with a mountain running or running lens, then you're running.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Um, and then?
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Or are you looking at maps and trying to link up cool ranges?
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: That's, you know that's a form of mountain run.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Are you making your own routes?
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: No, where we live, you know there's a lot of off trail travel.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Are you kind of?
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: You know, and we're allowed to do that.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: You know, in parks and stuff like that, be.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: You know you need to be sensitive to the area you're in, but are you a good steward of the environment that you're moving in as well?
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Those things really speak to me Like I'd much rather know that an athlete who was on their way to win a race heard that a competitor fell and hurt themselves the person they're running with they stopped and looked after that person.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: They went on to win.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: That matters a lot more to me.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Or you see some litter on the side of the trail.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: You take a second to go and pick it up, because that's the good thing, the right thing to do.
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: Now it matters the person you're selling.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: It really matters the type of person and the authenticity.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I think that's kind of the biggest stuff too.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and for some brands, winning is sort of their brand identity and that's awesome.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: You know like it's cool.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Of course I look up who wins races.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: You know like that, really that is a really core interesting part of racing.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: That's where community comes together.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: It's like one of the ultimate forms of human physical expression is, you know, can you line up in a race and win, and you've kind of removed a lot of the safety variables.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: But then the other interesting thing is, you know, can you line up in a race and win and you've kind of removed a lot of the safety variables.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: But then the other interesting thing is, can you make up your own route and do something interesting in that space?
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: That's also super cool.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I love it.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: So I know you can't give away too much, but I know there's some exciting shoe designs and shoe stuff coming down the line.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Like I just saw I don't know where it was on Instagram, I think it was like believe in the run Somebody posted a photo of one of the new I think it was the new Norvin that had like a sock, almost like the sock design, that kind of like went up the foot or whatever Dude, some of these things are like not only aesthetically beautiful but like very functional.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So it's really interesting to see like what's coming down the pipeline over the next few years.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: I would imagine it's probably pretty sweet as a runner.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: They're not inspiring to run in.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: They're like kind of heavy, they're clunky, there's, like you know, zippers all over them and or other kind of gadgety things.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: And I was really fortunate to actually get one of the insights in this.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I was like can we just make the most basic beautiful shoe that keeps your foot dry?
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, ultimately, all we want is to keep your foot dry.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Can you make it light?
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Because all runners like, first thing you do to pick up a shoe, is you like pick it up and do this.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: So I was like can we make a beautiful, simple shoe that's light, that you want to run in in the winter?
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Can you make winter running slightly more pleasant?
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Because it kind of sucks, you know, especially living in the Pacific Northwest, you're running in, like you know, almost freezing temps in the rain.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: It doesn't get much colder and more meaningful than that, it's true.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: So can you, you just dial that like pleasure, dial up just just one notch so that you can spend an extra half hour out.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, and enjoy it.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, so that was the inspiration for that shoe.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Um, our footwear lineup kind of breaks up into.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: We have, um, you know more you more of a performance trail shoe, like currently we have the Silan in line.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: So that's for you know, like faster, more propulsive, like Alpine trails, you know which is everybody loves running on those ribbons.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: A single track in the Alpine, beautiful flowers all over the place.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: We then have another line of shoe called our Vertex line, and Vertex is essentially the intersection of run and climb line issue, called our vertex line, and vertex is essentially the intersection of run and climb.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: It's that really kind of little niche spot that I think a lot of us, especially if you live in a mountain town, really aspire to.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Um, live in boulder and scrambling the flat irons, doing the whirl, um, you know us going up the chief, going up and doing alpine ridges where you might be getting some fourth, fifth class terrain.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: So can you, you essentially it's like run your climb, you know, like what used to be a mountaineering route or an alpine route is now trail.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Runners are kind of approaching them in light and fast ways, but so can you do that in the most secure way possible.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: So your feet are, you know, well connected to the ground but then still enjoy your running afterwards.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: So we have that space and then we have our Norvan space which is essentially um for all the other mountain run adventures.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: You know sort of your more general quiver shoe, yeah.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Very cool, Do you?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you could say yay or nay to this.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I can always edit this out if if you want me to, is there.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: It seems like all the brands are in this arms race.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Man, I run for La Sportiva and we've got two iterations of the Prodigios coming out with these super foams.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: It's the super shoe Armageddon.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Right now, Everything's coming out.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Are you guys developing a super shoe?
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I know your brand.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: It seems like you guys are a little bit different because it's more solely based in the mountain running scene.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: From a brand identity perspective, Will there be a super shoe at some point in time?
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Is that something you guys are looking at?
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, you know we're, we're constantly testing and prototyping and, of course, some of our athletes, you know, are racing and they're saying, yeah, we need a shoe to be competitive at.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: So we're, we're exploring different options.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: For sure, um, and yeah, we're currently testing different, different materials, different foams, and seeing what makes sense for our athletes to be able to feel that they have the tools that they need to perform in the mountains, cause not all mountain runs are technical.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: You know, some mountain runs are less technical, and so in that case maybe you want a shoe that does have more propulsive properties, or maybe the propulsion or maybe the foam helps reduce some muscle damage if you're going to be out for 100 miles, I don't know.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: But any technology that we add into the shoe has to meet an athlete need and be validated by our athletes.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: So yeah, you're sure we're experimenting with different properties and shoes, but we won't put something out unless it makes sense.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so not putting out just to compete.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: There's gotta be a purpose.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: No, I like that there has to be a purpose.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there has to be a sharp point to it and a real reason to have it.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: And if it makes sense, then a hundred percent.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: You know I have.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: And the hard thing for me is I have my opinions about what I think a mountain running shoe should be, but I have a very specific style of runs that I enjoy doing.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: So it's making sure that what we're you know, which is why you need a few athletes with maybe a few different sort of backgrounds to help validate that or to challenge your preconceived notions.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: Like, ultimately, when you're doing product design and development, one thing I'm really finding is you kind of have to kill your babies.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: You know, like you get really fixated on something.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, this is a great idea.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like the Homer Simpson car.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like this is the greatest idea of all time.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: This has to work.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, that didn't work at all, but work.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, that didn't work at all, you know, but at least we tried it and we tested it and that's super cool yeah, yeah, I love that, I love it and it's just interesting to see all the like the brands.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Now, I don't know, there's just like so much crazy technology, whereas, like you've been in the game a long time, man, you remember back when I don't know, anton was running in these thin, like these, what was it the?
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: yeah, the mt, the mt, the MT110s.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: I love those.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: When they first came out I was like, oh, this thing is sick.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually, there's a funny story for you my first pair of trail shoes I got were the XT wings from Salomon.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know what the XT wings?
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: are, but they had.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: I mean it's actually kind of popular again.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: That's how long, that's how old the shoe is, that's like 20, it's like, yeah, it's now really heavy in the Gorpcore world.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: But it was this like red shoe with like black kind of flame looking like arms on the side of it, but it had this like plastic exoskeleton all around the outside and the thing probably weighed like well, I don't know ounces, but it was like 400 grams.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: You know, it was like so heavy and whereas I'd always worn racing flats at that point, like it was metal shoes of all time.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: And so I brought this shoe into a shoe cobbler and I was like, I was like can you shave off all this excess plastic on the side, all the um, and can you drop the shoe like, take off maybe like 10, you know whatever 10 mils of drop on the shoe and re -glue a different outsole on it.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: And so I I showed up at CCC with a shoe that I'd fully like kind of prototype myself, um, and end up running half the race race, just worried that my shoe was going to blow apart on me.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, so yeah, no, but yeah, first the trail.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: She's changed dramatically and I think it's awesome.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Um, as I say, you know there's a lot of different ways of people wanting to move in the mountains and um, you can't argue that people are running faster than ever.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: And if you look at the number of people finishing top 10 at Western States even Hard Rock, utmb you know the majority of them are wearing some type of super shoe.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so whether there's a perceived effort or real benefit, it's, it's there.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so, being in the sport as long as you have and done so many different things, like I know this is a little bit of a loaded question, but like you see the sport going like where do you like?
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: How do you think this is going to get like olympic level?
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Like what do you?
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: What do you?
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: What do you think is going to happen in the long term for the sport?
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: yeah, I hope it never goes to the olympics, okay, honestly, yeah, the olympics have a.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: The problem that happens with sports that go to the olympics is and they end up having to really sanitize the sport right and really change the nature of it, like you end up having to run like looped courses, and it's to me it's not really mountain running, it's a different sport, I think.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I think maybe there's a space for like cross country or trail running in it, but mountain running specifically.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: The beauty of mountain running to me is it is your local loop that kind of makes sense and that doesn't fit nicely into an athletic, like into a, an olympic agenda.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, and also then, honestly, having been in the olympic stream, the bureaucracy and level of like organization behind it is just not that fun to deal with yeah, yeah, no, for sure that kind of takes away from the soul of the sport.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: We're already seeing seeing that to a certain degree, um, where I see the sport going is I kind of see I see um sort of two streams happening.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: I see there being a very it's going to go the way of, like, skateboarding and surfing and, um, you know, and a lot of um sort of more adventure-based sports.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: I think you're going to have a super highly competitive stream of people and they're going to keep pushing the limits and keep getting faster and faster, and I think that's amazing and I love seeing that side of the sport.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: And then I think you're going to have a veer towards the more like free runner style side of it, where people you know you may dabble in races, may get into races, but you ultimately you kind of run, you're not committing yourself to one race series because, cause, what?
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: What we're seeing increasingly is, you know, in order to do a certain you know, if you want to compete in a championship event, you have to do more and more of that races series.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: So they kind of own to a certain degree.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: So you're going to see athletes doing more of their own personal mountain running adventures, which is, you know, what a lot of people have always done, and I think that's where the more community-based, you know, runs will happen and so that sort of less competitive stream or or personal challenge stream, yeah, the FKTs and like that whole kind of see.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: I think, no, I definitely agree with that because I'm seeing, and you see it a lot, like you said, the UTMBs of the world.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: If you you want to run, utmb, you got to do their races.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: If you want to run, let's say, you want to race the golden trail series final, you have to do a handful, you have to get the qualifying points to go do that and it's.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: And having talked to a lot of race directors like even like julian carr recently, who I just talked to, has the, uh, the cirque series, like he's kind of starting to look at the possibility of having some sort of final and stuff like that.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: So it is very interesting to see the sports starting to consolidate one way or another on these short course, mid course and then eventually long course if you will, and then you'll have that hyper competitive side and then you know you'll have this like I don't know more artistic expression kind of like climbing, kind of screams to me like that, where you'll have this speed climbing and all the stuff that's in the Olympics versus your Alex Honnold's of the world that still do incredibly fast stuff, but it's more outside, it's not centered in a gym, it's less performance-based, even though it's incredible achievement, but it's a little bit different.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally yeah.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: It's a mixture of different skill sets, as you say.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: I think you said you need to.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: You know it's more artistic.
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: You need to be able to create your own lines and have, maybe you also have like a slightly broader skill set.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you need to be able to assess danger and risk.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: You need to be able to figure out, like, where your crew might meet you.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: If you have a crew for an event or for a run.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: You Then also, if you want to actually be a professional in that space, you ultimately need to be a great storyteller.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Because you know what I do.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: That's rad in my backyard.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: How do I convey that to a broader audience?
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: It's really, you know, the only way to do that if you've never seen what I'm dealing with is either you have to show beautiful images, make a great movie about it, or be a great storyteller.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Race results kind of tell their own story.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Um, and that's why a lot of brands tend to default to that and a lot of athletes tend to default to that.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: It's kind of an easy, it's been an easy path.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: It's very easy to you know exactly.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: The ranking exists at the finish line exactly but where the real depth comes is can you pull the 15th place finisher out and tell that person's story that?
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: That is sick to me, because everybody who finishes those races has had a journey and has had a cool story.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: I'm just as interested in that story as I am in the person who wins the race.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%, it's interesting too.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: This is something I've been having a lot of conversations with, with race directors, with athletes, with all kinds of people, especially on the sub-ultra side.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: I think ultra does a really good job at being able to tell the story of people the front of the pack, the middle of the pack and the back of the pack, but I think in sub-ultra we do a very poor job, if a job at all, at telling anybody's stories.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know who the Joe Grays of the world are, you know who your Christian Allens are and some of the guys and the gals running in the front, but it's so competitive and so hyper-competitive I feel like now not a lot of stories are being told at all.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: It's more and more of performance and less of the person and the training and what goes into it, and just the stories, if you will.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's interesting to see how that's.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Hopefully we can that and to do more better storytelling in general.
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: You know, same with FKT, I mean.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: I, you know, I think it kind of.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's kind of two way street, though I also think it's a little bit incumbent on the athletes to tell their stories as well.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: You know they don't wait to.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: You know, ultimately you're the best and we live in a time now, as athletes, where you have these incredible platforms where you can kind of be the author of your own story.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Um, and I, I do think there's a lot of power in that.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: And, um, I'm actually surprised, for instance, that if you look at triathlon, a lot of athletes have logs where they really sell sell their kind of lifestyle and their journey quite carefully.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: We don't really see that.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I personally wouldn't want to have a camera crew following me around the console, but if I was trying to make my living solely as an athlete, we have some incredible personalities in the sport.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: If you were able to capture that and share it in a slightly higher production value way, that'd be amazing.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: I followed the Connor Young's Road to Paris series yeah, yeah, that was incredible on YouTube.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: He was vulnerable, showed his good workouts, his bad workouts.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Um, you know he's a very wholesome person in their, in their presentation, and I thought he did a phenomenal job in, like really bringing you into it, and I think that there'd be a lot of room in trail running to do the same thing.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, um, I think that's something that killian did very.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: He didn't necessarily do it himself, but like that whole solomon series yeah the solomon series, the killian's quest series, did a very good job of bringing you into it and showing the athlete outside of racing, and those things really spoke to me and they were a huge inspiration into my move away from racing, necessarily, into the broader mountain ranges and developing my skillset into more steep skiing and alpinism and rock climbing.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I do think that there is there is room to to venture away from that and it's once again, it's not necessarily new, because people have been doing this stuff for a very long time.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Um, but I do think it's um, yeah, giving, giving people the space and platform to show personality instead of just showing the results would be huge yeah, no, I agree not to double back to the olympic thing, the olympic topic, but one thing I did want to say because you had mentioned, said something earlier about schema racing was almost like I feel like having hung out now with so many ski mountaineers and like potential schema olympic hopefuls, like I feel like schema in the olympics kind of turned me off a little bit, just like what they did with it getting rid of the like there's no vertical race um, the vertical race, the vertical race isn't even the most interesting.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: You know, like, doing the individual races, yeah, yeah, races like that, that is schemo.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Um, you know I understand why they did that.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: Um, so the problem with you know, schemo, obviously, is you have to be in the mountains, you have to have a certain amount of, like, elevation gain, whereas with these shorter sprint races, which is the format that's coming in the Olympics, you can do that in the Midwest.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: You know, like you could do that in I'm trying to think of somewhere, but even like somewhere in Michigan, that has like a small hill you can just do laps up on that thing and you can make a sprint race there.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: So it is in a way making the sport mode more democratic.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: But there's no like the mo and schema is mountain, mountain.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: And then what they're doing?
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: They're doing a sprint, they're doing a sprint race on um touring gear, but it's not, it's not.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: There's no mo in what they're doing.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Right, exactly.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was disappointing and you can make and you can even draw the same or similar assumptions with like uh, it was even climbing too, like what they did with, uh, some of the things with climbing, um, you know, I don't know I mean they kind of, for they forced a format on climbing, like forcing speed and bouldering, and they did that with the idea of being able to separate the disciplines, ultimately get more medals, and hopefully Schemo is thinking the same thing.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: They have some success with this first format.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: They can then broaden it to have more variety of events.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: But I also think the IOC doesn't like having races or events over, you know, like 20 minutes, um, and a schema race is, you know, anywhere from an hour to three and a half hours, depending on the format and length of the race, or multi-day yeah, which could be crazy too so, anyway, it is about mountain biking kind of went through the same thing, like mountain biking became these, like these courses instead of like a big natural loop, which is what racing used to be like, and yeah, so I I think the olympics is, you know, is an interesting avenue, um, but we would be dealing with a very different discipline and sport.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: If we were in the olympics, yeah.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Well, it's different too, like we're not track and field, we're, it's more.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: I've heard doug mayer, I've heard a lot of people say this it's a soul sport.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: It's just very it's hard to put that in a box or just I don't know.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Interesting.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: So listen, man, one of the things I found really interesting and I've heard this on podcasts that you've been on and even in some of the conversations that we've had like Alex Brickle, some of the people you know, what is it like living in Squamish?
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Every professional, the people you know what is it like living in Squamish?
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: Like every professional athlete that's like the man or like the woman that like like some of the best in the world in their perspective, uh, modalities like live there, like what is that like?
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Is that crazy?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's super cool.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Um, so I've been fortunate to live in a in a couple sort of you know mountain capital.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: So I used to live in a town called Canmore, alberta, and Canmore is where that's, in the heart of the Canadian Rockies, so it's where it's one of the best ice climbing places in the world Some amazing like big mountains, like big glaciated peaks and things, and also some of the best sport climbing and it's where the Canadian National Nordic Ski Team is based, and so that was really cool, being the sort of high performance mountain environment that way.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: And then Squamish is called the adventure sports capital of Canada.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: So like I live on the ocean but then I've got you know like 2000 meter peaks right behind me, so that's you know 6000 feet and they're like heavily glaciated peaks.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: We got some of the most snow in the world.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Squamish Chief is kind of like the Yosemite of Canada, so we've got all this incredible rock everywhere.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: So as a rock climber it's incredible Because we've got all these glaciers that are high up.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Some of the world's best kayaking also happens in Squamish.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: And then Squamish because we're in this rainforest environment, the forest regenerates really quickly and so trail builders can kind of build trails almost anywhere and the forest reclaims it if they let them go.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: So we have these incredible mountain bike trails as well Truly world-class mountain biking here.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: We're in one direction.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: We're an hour from Vancouver in one direction and then about 40 minutes from Whistler, which is one of the biggest ski resorts in the world, in the opposite direction.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: So it really is just a paradise of everything.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: So most days I'm doing one or two different sports, just because I have access to that kind of infrastructure and because we live in such a rich environment um, you know, natural environment.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: We have incredible athletes that get drawn to be there.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: Also, being close to an airport makes it a bit easier as well.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: Um, it's like my next door neighbors of a professional snowboarder.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, there's a number of professional skiers live in my neighborhood.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Um, quite a few professional rock climbers or mountain guides and ski guides.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's a really, really amazing environment to be in, but at the same time, it's also one of those funny places where you know your, your perceived level of what people do is bonkers.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like it feels like, you know, if you're not like a 512 climber who can run a 15 minute five K, and also, you know, maybe surf and big mountain ski.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: You're kind of an average athlete, you're like well, that's kind of, that's kind of not right Levels so high, that's just actually.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: This is a total, total segue.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: But the most interesting athlete to me is, you know, hobbs Kessler.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: Hobbs Kessler is an American Olympian in the mile.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, so he's, you know, he's whatever.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: I think he's run like a 350 mile or maybe faster, but he's also used to be on the US national climbing team, what as a junior.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's a 514 climber who can run a sub um, a sub four minute mile.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Like he's a freak athlete.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh A total freak athlete.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: So I think one of his challenges was to try to climb a 514 and run a sub four minute mile in a day, and if he's able to do that, that to me is like total next level, cause those are also like quite different skill-based activities.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: But being able to do both of those in a day, it'd be a pretty sick challenge.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: So, oh my gosh, I hope he goes after it, because that'd be sick.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be cool.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: What a diversified athlete like so cool.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Like you don't meet too many people that can do something like that.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Like usually there's like that aerobic crossover where nordic skiers will be great trail runners or vice versa, but very few climbers to runners that's.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: That's different.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, If I, if I had my, my pick, um, if I could pick the perfect, my own like kind of development team, I would pick NCAA or that level.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: Nordic skier, you know, like the people finishing, you know, 10th through fifth, um at national cross country champs or cross country ski champs who have a bit of a running background and put them in a mountain running, and I think that the sport would just like, yeah, their, their aerobic capacity is incredible.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: We've seen that a little bit in in Europe with schema athletes, but I think Nordic skiing has that extra level of like professional training behind them.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bigger, bigger engines.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was yeah bigger engines.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, almost, yeah, the engines are.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're just more developed in from a training perspective that they can apply that to to trail racing.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that'd be.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: I think you're already seeing it with people like sophia lockley and yeah, david sinclair, oh my gosh, yeah, uh, david norris isn't david norris yeah yeah yeah, I had the miss.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess fortune slash misfortune to get in a race.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Uh, norris, this summer at one of the Cirque series races kids a monster.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: So good, oh my God.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Disgustingly.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: And like really good on technical terrain.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Like so good on technical terrain.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, young age do these really long, you know, just running in the mountains with poles in quite technical terrain, and they typically live in more mountainous towns.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: So whether you're in Vermont or somewhere on the East Coast or Alaska or you know so they're used to moving in that type of terrain and you know you can really tell the difference between somebody who grew up moving in the mountains from a young age versus somebody who moves to it later in life.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: There's just like this fluidity and effortlessness.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: They know, you know, like they know what rock's going to move underfoot, from just intuition, like any of my friends whose parents are mountain guides, who grew up going into the mountains just have this like ease in this, um, in that environment.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: That is really hard to replicate and learn later in life and you know there's people like Killian have that, you know they just they just sort of know um how to move in the mountains and it's really beautiful to watch.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Dude, what was that like racing him?
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: I think you might be the only person I've ever spoken to that's actually raised him.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Is it crazy?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Like you see, I mean it's at a hundred mile race, so it's a little bit different, but still.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so the my second year running hard rock.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: I uh, so I finished third the year before and I was like, well, uh, I trained pretty well.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: I was like I know I can podium, um, if I have, you know, if I execute.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: But I was like, well, let's just see, and let's just see what it's like to run with the best mountain runner of our generation.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: And so I took off and ran as I was like which was very, very nice of him to let me run that long with him before he decided to peace out.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: But I was holding him back and he wanted to go and or he was starting to get cold or something, and so he started to speed up.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: But, um, I you know Killian's a really wonderful, uh, very genuine person.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: He's a really smart guy, um, so, you know, having like just great conversation, really nice conversation with him, and, yeah, you know I've interacted with him, um, off and on over the years as well.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, we, I ask him, you know like what product we've talked product over the years and sort of route selection, and just because we also share a love of sort of light and fast mountain travel, um, whether on skis or climbing, so, yeah, we shared some bed over the years, and when my, when my wife died a few years ago as well, he was just he reached out in a very like empathetic way, which I really, really appreciate.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: He's, you know, he suffered loss and trauma in the mountains as well, and so he, you know, he had he just had, you know, maybe he'd had like a window into what I'd experienced, even though it was different circumstances, but yeah, so he sent me a very empathetic note at that point as well.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: So he's just a very, very kind person who's also just a truly fierce competitor, and, you know, the cool thing about him, though, is he really wants to raise everybody's level.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: You know he'll use competitors to push.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: He also wants to be racing the best athletes at their best, which I really admire that yeah, he's an interesting character man like what, uh, you meet these people in our sport.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: You like the anton even anton, like, has been able to completely reinvent himself and killian's on this new chapter.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see kind of this old guard, you know, kind of kind of I wouldn't say reinvention, but in another act in life doing, doing different things.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: So it's still, but still making a massive impact on the sport.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: So it's very cool.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you have to, though I think it's important to to re-examine and to I think you want to evolve.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, it'd be pretty sad if I was the same person I was when I was 20.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: I think he was an okay guy, but I like to be a little bit better.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: And, um, you know, like time evolves, life evolves and your interests evolve and and hopefully, your skills expand over that time as well.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: And so, while, whereas I may not be as fast as I used to be, um, I am a much better all around athlete than I used to be in so many ways, and that's super cool.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, who can?
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: I'm, you know, I'd say I'm, I'm turning 46, and not to, you know, you know, in a couple months, and to say that I'm a much better athlete now than I was when I was 20 is kind of an amazing thing to say.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: And that's just the story of evolution and, um, you know, it's also just a story of acceptance, like my body doesn't work the way it used to, and so I could sit there being really sad about what I can't do anymore, or I can evolve and adapt into things that I can do now in a more proficient way, and it's fun to be improving at things as well, like I'm still becoming a better rock climber, so it's really fun to invest in something I'm improving in.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: But the balance to me there as well, though, is and I often wonder this as I'm getting back, you know, and finding some love for running in a new way is do I use am I genuinely tired, you know, or physically sore or beat up, or am I using my age and previous injuries as an excuse to not try as hard?
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: And it's this really interesting balance that I'm constantly weighing, um, so, as you know, is it?
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, and sometimes it could be both.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: You know it can be an either or thing, or, or if, and, and yeah, so it's a really interesting um balance that I, that I play in that space.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: Dude, that's interesting.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: I had Joe Gray on the podcast not too long ago and he said something kind of similar.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: He's like you know, now that I'm over 40, he's like, yeah, I can make excuses for this if I have a slow day or if I feel this and if I just, you know, just want to go for him instead of competing against everybody else, just compete against the other masters.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: He's like you can always use that as a crutch and I was like, oh, that's what.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: It's a weird way to think about it when you turn 40, you know.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: No, it is totally.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: You know, and you hear people we say this all the time.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: It's like oh, I'm 30 and I'm getting a little bit stiffer, I'm 35.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: I'm turning a little bit stiffer, I'm 40, but I'm like, ultimately it's you're winning versus if you're finishing third.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: I'd much rather finish third against a quality field.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: No, I had my absolute best race then, win and sort of not really try all that hard against an average field or even finish even.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I'd almost rather I'd rather finish 60th at a race.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: Nobody gave him my all of the day and you know, train properly and execute the best race I could on that day.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Of course it's fun to win, but it's like it's not.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: It's fun to win but it's ultimately not what it's about.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: I'm a really curious person.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: I love exploring and that means exploring what my limits are now.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: This is who I am now, so what can I do now?
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: Exactly Well, speaking of now and in the future.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: What do you got planned for the summer?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: You got anything coming up you're starting to put together?
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: I, yeah, I'm currently weighing that out.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do some schema races this winter and then I'm debating whether I want to run a 50 K and a hundred K, but if not, I'll keep doing these shorter, more technical races which I really enjoy doing.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: Um, um, they work on a number of levels.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: One they force me to to run faster, and then I'm not so destroyed, but I can't go and do my own personal mountain adventures as well after you know the hundred miles.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: You know they do take a little bit of time to recover from.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: I know carl melzer, you can bust one out.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: You know, every now and then it's a week, what a week exactly.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: yeah, um, yeah no.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: If I, if I, if I'm running a hundred miles or a hundred K, I like to really invest a lot of time and energy into it, uh, whereas the shorter races I find, but I can, um, you still need to train really, really hard, but I don't feel I need quite as big a buildup for them, like kind of fit them in on a more regular basis and there's still a little bit easier to get into as well.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: that's true, that's true.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: You don't have to wait, there's always that part of it.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: I, yeah.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I, uh, I have some personal projects around, uh, the sea to sky area I'd love to do, and they're a little bit on the longer end, um.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: So I feel that my body I'm now trusting my body enough to, you know, start to believe that I can actually do them, which is really cool, um.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, maybe, you know, start to believe that I can actually do them, which is really cool, um.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: And then, yeah, maybe, you know, maybe run an ultra at the end of the year if I, if the motivation is there, with maybe a name to get into hard rock again in the future.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: So oh man, I'd love to hear it.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: That's amazing, Well listen, man, I don't want to keep your entire day, so I want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: It was an honor and a privilege and, uh, you know, I hope we can do this again in the future.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: Thanks again for your interest and you know, as I said, we're we're starting to really build out our mountain running team and, yeah, look forward to you know if any young athletes are, you know, reach out always stoked to hear what you guys are up to, and anybody has any cool and I'm really proud of us coming out in 25 and 26.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, just keep an eye on it.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: I think we're going to be doing some interesting things.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I love it, man.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: Have a great, great afternoon.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Cheers, appreciate it.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Cheers.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: Oh man, what a great episode.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Adam Campbell is such a good dude and, just like I said, a really fun conversation, exciting to hear about what Adam's been up to and what he's got planned going into the future.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: It was just a great one.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: It was a really fun way to start off 2025 with the great conversation with the legend himself, mr Adam Campbell.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Guys, before you get going, do me a favor Hop on Instagram and give Adam a follow.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: His tag is well handle, if you will is Adam A-D-A-M-O at 1979.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: Give him a follow, shoot him a DM, let him know what you guys thought about the episode.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: Or, if you are interested in or have any questions for Adam regarding Arcteryx or anything like that, shoot him a DM.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: Um, I'm sure he will get back to you guys with, uh, some of your Q and a.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, guys, I hope you enjoyed this one.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Um, if you did, it would mean the world to me if you could give this a share, um on Instagram, so that way we can get this out to the world, as well as a five-star rating and review on Apple and Spotify, so we can continue to cover the great sport of sub ultra, and we got some big plans in store for you for 2025.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: It's uh, it's uh.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: Not too much has been reported on yet, but some cool stuff down the pipeline.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: So have a great rest of your week, guys.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: We'll see you next time.