Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / What's up with Jordan Walker?

Transcript

What's up with Jordan Walker? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday. Cardinal Territory fam Katie Wi and Bernie Michlis
0:09
Speaker 1: back at you to preview the final game of the
0:12
Speaker 1: Cardinals as series Saint Louis. Fresh off a two to
0:15
Speaker 1: one win over the A's on Tuesday, they'll go for
0:18
Speaker 1: the rubber match today behind Matthew Liberator. But if you
0:21
Speaker 1: are listening to this podcast, you're probably here to talk
0:24
Speaker 1: or listen to about Jordan Walker, Bernie. On your show
0:27
Speaker 1: on the Gashouse Gang on cam Ox yesterday, manager Allie
0:30
Speaker 1: Marmele and hitting coach Brandon Brown joined you, Tom Ackerman
0:33
Speaker 1: and Chris Ronji as they do every too, Ollie Marmle
0:36
Speaker 1: does every Tuesday at least, and some interesting conversation and
0:39
Speaker 1: discourse was had about Jordan Walker. We know it has
0:42
Speaker 1: not been the season that either he or the Cardinals
0:45
Speaker 1: were hoping for at the plate. Let's dive into some
0:48
Speaker 1: of those comments, Bernie, because I mean that was about
0:50
Speaker 1: as candida as we've seen the coaching staff about a
0:52
Speaker 1: player all year.
0:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, First of all, I want to just kind
0:58
Speaker 2: of let everybody know who has a listen to that show.
1:00
Speaker 2: You know, Ali's been doing it all season on Tuesdays
1:03
Speaker 2: at noon on cam Wax and it's always available online afterwards.
1:07
Speaker 2: So I wanted to throw that out there. But the
1:08
Speaker 2: thing about Ali is he he actually approached cam Wax
1:12
Speaker 2: and he said, I don't feel like people, you know,
1:15
Speaker 2: fans generally speaking, got a true sense of me. They
1:18
Speaker 2: just see, they read a couple of quotes, they see little,
1:23
Speaker 2: they see a little, you know, two or three minutes
1:25
Speaker 2: of video and that's it. And he wanted to branch
1:28
Speaker 2: out and like really get into some deeper discussions. And
1:31
Speaker 2: he made it clear to me he wanted any question
1:34
Speaker 2: that I had in mind, Like in other words, he
1:37
Speaker 2: wasn't expecting me or anyone else to shy away from
1:40
Speaker 2: asking him stuff that might be sensitive. And he's been great,
1:43
Speaker 2: and I think actually fans that have bothered to take
1:45
Speaker 2: the time to watch it have been impressed by him
1:47
Speaker 2: and the fact that he's candid, he'll take on any
1:51
Speaker 2: question and you know, handles himself very well. I think
1:55
Speaker 2: they're seeing a different side to him. So I've enjoyed
1:58
Speaker 2: doing it and I do. I totally respect him for
2:02
Speaker 2: putting it out there. And during the show too, there's
2:04
Speaker 2: a comments section and you have the usual people that
2:08
Speaker 2: you know instead of asking him a question or even
2:11
Speaker 2: just offering constructive criticism. You know, they'll attack him personally
2:15
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. So you're never going to get
2:17
Speaker 2: rid of those people. But he doesn't care about that either.
2:20
Speaker 2: He just shakes it off, he laughs it off. So anyway,
2:23
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to take up too much time on that. Anyway,
2:26
Speaker 2: you know, I asked the question that got the ball
2:28
Speaker 2: rolling about Jordan Walker, and you know, basically said, ask Brownie,
2:35
Speaker 2: what progress, if any, are you seeing? And you know,
2:39
Speaker 2: what is he going to have to do to get going?
2:43
Speaker 2: And you know, Brownie, you know, he wasn't hostile, he
2:46
Speaker 2: wasn't like disrespectful. He just basically said, he's got to
2:51
Speaker 2: got to be more devoted to preparation. They're basically saying
2:54
Speaker 2: he's got to work harder, he's got to dig in more,
2:56
Speaker 2: he's got to study pictures more. And then you know
3:00
Speaker 2: there were some things in there too, basically saying, you know,
3:04
Speaker 2: they're giving him a plan, they're giving him an approach.
3:06
Speaker 2: They have very specific instructions that will make him better.
3:10
Speaker 2: And they continue to tell him they believe in him,
3:14
Speaker 2: but he'll he'll try to do it their way, and
3:16
Speaker 2: then he's uncomfortable and then he sort of reverts back
3:20
Speaker 2: to what he was doing and then it just gets
3:22
Speaker 2: worse and worse and worse. And as as Brownie said,
3:28
Speaker 2: you know, they just have this back and forth going
3:31
Speaker 2: on and on and on that way, and they can't
3:33
Speaker 2: get out of that cycle where they kind of repeat
3:35
Speaker 2: the same cycle over and over again. So I think
3:38
Speaker 2: they're frustrated, but people need to know that they still
3:42
Speaker 2: you know, they have not given up on him. But Katie,
3:45
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this this season final
3:47
Speaker 2: thing I'll say with Jordan Walker, I mean, and even
3:53
Speaker 2: Nolan Gorman earlier. They oli also made it clear that
3:56
Speaker 2: playing time had to be earned. So I think they're
3:59
Speaker 2: being assisting with that. There's really no reason to play
4:02
Speaker 2: Jordan Walker that much right now because he's he's been
4:04
Speaker 2: totally lost at the play.
4:07
Speaker 1: So I think the discourse with Jordan is so interesting
4:11
Speaker 1: because at the beginning of the year he was recognized, prioritized,
4:14
Speaker 1: whatever words you want to use, by John Mozelock as
4:16
Speaker 1: the player to figure it out this season, this transition year,
4:20
Speaker 1: this Runway season, whatever annoying term you want to describe
4:24
Speaker 1: it as applied to Jordan Walker specifically, and I'll backtrack
4:28
Speaker 1: so that people who might have missed Bran Brown's interview,
4:30
Speaker 1: if you have, I fully recommend you check it out
4:33
Speaker 1: available on kmox or on Twitter. They post the recordings
4:36
Speaker 1: there every day. Here's what Bran Brown said about Jordan
4:39
Speaker 1: Walker from a preparation standpoint on your show, Bernie. He said,
4:42
Speaker 1: at some point in time, Walker's going to have to
4:44
Speaker 1: devote more focus on preparation. One thing with him is
4:47
Speaker 1: we've played a massive game of tennis, going back and
4:49
Speaker 1: forth with what he feels like he needs to do
4:52
Speaker 1: versus what he really needs to do. But for me,
4:55
Speaker 1: there's a really easy way out. He might have to
4:57
Speaker 1: be a little bit more uncomfortable to be able to
4:58
Speaker 1: achieve what we wanted to do achieve. So to me,
5:01
Speaker 1: that is it's a two part thing when we're looking
5:04
Speaker 1: at Jordan Walker. One is about establishing an approach, which
5:08
Speaker 1: the Cardinals have done all season long. The second part
5:11
Speaker 1: is committing to an approach. I'll go back to our
5:13
Speaker 1: earlier banner here. It's very clear to me, and in
5:17
Speaker 1: my conversation with Jordan I spoke to him yesterday before
5:19
Speaker 1: the game, he said as well, when things start to
5:23
Speaker 1: turn and he starts to struggle, Walker has not committed
5:26
Speaker 1: to sticking with that approach in those times of struggle. Now,
5:29
Speaker 1: it can be human nature when things are going poorly,
5:32
Speaker 1: to revert back to what is comfortable. Walker will be
5:34
Speaker 1: the first to say, this new approach is something that's
5:37
Speaker 1: not how similar to how I grew up hitting, how
5:39
Speaker 1: I started my career. It's different. I'll say, different doesn't
5:43
Speaker 1: mean bad, but it is a change. It is an adjustment,
5:46
Speaker 1: and that's why the Cardinals were giving him so long
5:48
Speaker 1: to make that adjustment. But I asked him, I said,
5:50
Speaker 1: would be fair to say that when you start to struggle?
5:53
Speaker 1: Because since August tenth, I believe he is hitting one
5:56
Speaker 1: thirty eight with an ops of four hundred and twenty
5:58
Speaker 1: three strikeouts. So yeah, things are not going well. Is
6:02
Speaker 1: it safe to say that you inadvertently maybe revert back
6:06
Speaker 1: to what you're comfortable with instead of sticking with the approach,
6:08
Speaker 1: and that's when things get out of hand? And he
6:11
Speaker 1: said yes. I'll read his quote here in the Athletic.
6:14
Speaker 1: He said, sometimes I do that, but not consciously. I'll
6:16
Speaker 1: get in the box and think this is what's comfortable
6:18
Speaker 1: right now, and it might be something that I used
6:20
Speaker 1: to do. Looking at the tape, I'm standing wide and
6:23
Speaker 1: getting more into my legs, and I'm stepping towards the plate.
6:25
Speaker 1: Even when I'm going bad, I'm doing that. It doesn't
6:27
Speaker 1: feel like my old swing at all, going back to
6:30
Speaker 1: I guess what is comfortable. But when I look at
6:32
Speaker 1: the tape, doesn't look like the old swing.
6:34
Speaker 2: Now.
6:34
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to keep towards the approach, and I
6:37
Speaker 1: agree when you look at Jordan Walker's stance it's different.
6:40
Speaker 1: The approach though, changes almost every week based on how
6:43
Speaker 1: he's feeling, and that's I think where the frustration is
6:45
Speaker 1: from the coaching staff to the player. I agree with you, Bernie,
6:48
Speaker 1: Allie Marmel and Bran Brown are still very high on
6:51
Speaker 1: Jordan Walker. I actually think this is probably the most
6:53
Speaker 1: optimistic they felt about him in quite a while. At
6:56
Speaker 1: some point it's on the player to commit to an approach,
6:58
Speaker 1: and talking to Jordan yesterday, it seemed clear that he
7:02
Speaker 1: understands he needs to do that. Now he has three
7:04
Speaker 1: weeks or so to prove that he can.
7:07
Speaker 2: And you know, and we need to point out which
7:11
Speaker 2: we have and we will. They only want what's best
7:14
Speaker 2: for him. It's not like they're messing with him just
7:17
Speaker 2: to mess with him. They're not screwing around. I mean,
7:21
Speaker 2: Brent Brown has helped so many hitters during his career,
7:24
Speaker 2: including Lake career Albert Pooles, who swears by him, and
7:29
Speaker 2: so I have limited empathy for Walker from the standpoint
7:34
Speaker 2: that they're doing everything they can to help them. They're
7:37
Speaker 2: giving him a very specific plan, and they don't change
7:39
Speaker 2: the plan. They're not all over the map with it.
7:43
Speaker 2: It's very much to find what they want him to do.
7:46
Speaker 2: How he's got a change to get their results, and
7:49
Speaker 2: as you just pointed out, and after talking to him,
7:51
Speaker 2: he tries it, he feels a little uncomfortable, as Brent
7:55
Speaker 2: Brown limited to or he alluded to, sorry, where it's like, well,
7:59
Speaker 2: he feels uncompmfortable, so he just I'm going to go
8:01
Speaker 2: back to what feels comfortable, even though he gets terrible
8:05
Speaker 2: results when he does it. So they're they're really trying everything,
8:09
Speaker 2: and I think they're totally genuine in terms of their
8:15
Speaker 2: belief in him. They're they're a little frustrated with them.
8:19
Speaker 2: That's okay, You're they're allowed to be frustrated. But I
8:22
Speaker 2: also think it was time for some you know, straightforward talk,
8:25
Speaker 2: and they delivered that on the show, and I don't
8:27
Speaker 2: know that that was because they thought they had to
8:30
Speaker 2: send him a message publicly. Oli Marmel doesn't operate that way.
8:36
Speaker 2: I think Brent Brown is kind of like if you
8:39
Speaker 2: ask him a question, he's going to tell you what
8:41
Speaker 2: he thinks. He doesn't care whether it's it's in the
8:43
Speaker 2: dugout or it's on the radio, or wherever it is.
8:47
Speaker 2: So I hope that for his sake, I hope Walker
8:50
Speaker 2: understands what they're trying to do here. And I know
8:54
Speaker 2: that there are some fans are gonna say, well, he
8:56
Speaker 2: did find as a rookie, so why did they change anything. Well,
8:59
Speaker 2: you know, you could probably elaborate on that. I mean,
9:03
Speaker 2: a guy that's sixty six and two hundred and fifty
9:05
Speaker 2: pounds and hits the ball that hard and hits it
9:07
Speaker 2: that far when he makes contact, which is the real problem.
9:13
Speaker 2: I don't think the team's crazy to say, you know what,
9:15
Speaker 2: you got to channel that strength differently. You know, we
9:19
Speaker 2: don't want you like your game should not be groundball singles,
9:24
Speaker 2: hard hit ground balls, but still ground balls. If you
9:27
Speaker 2: get the ball in the air, good things will happen.
9:31
Speaker 2: So you know, this is hardly a radical thing that
9:34
Speaker 2: they have asked him to do. In fact, I would
9:37
Speaker 2: say that it's very typical. I would say that it's
9:40
Speaker 2: very common. You know. It's not like they're you know,
9:43
Speaker 2: coming out of left field with some outlandishesoteric hitting approach.
9:48
Speaker 2: You're a big, strong guy, and if you can start
9:50
Speaker 2: to pull the ball and get some lyft, the numbers
9:53
Speaker 2: will be outstanding. Because I've heard fans actually just imply basically, okay,
9:57
Speaker 2: just let them be, you know, a singles hitter. No,
10:01
Speaker 2: you know that that actually would be given up on him, right.
10:05
Speaker 1: This is not a singles hitter game anymore. And for
10:08
Speaker 1: Jordan Walker, well.
10:09
Speaker 2: Let me tell you in stan Saint Louis it is
10:11
Speaker 2: just so you know, but anyway goes a.
10:12
Speaker 1: Lot of things with Jordan Walker. You're spot on Bernie
10:16
Speaker 1: with his athleticism and his power and his stature and
10:18
Speaker 1: his speed. You are doing him a disservice if you
10:21
Speaker 1: let him stick to that approach where it's mostly ground balls. Yes,
10:24
Speaker 1: hard hit that exit Beulow is real, but he's not
10:27
Speaker 1: nearly touching his ceiling unless he adjusts to the way
10:30
Speaker 1: that he's being pitched at the Major League level which
10:32
Speaker 1: he's still having trouble doing.
10:34
Speaker 2: So.
10:34
Speaker 1: He's twenty three years old. Okay, so let's pump the
10:36
Speaker 1: brakes a little bit on the Oh, it's time to
10:39
Speaker 1: move on from the Jordan Walker experiment. Absolutely not. He
10:41
Speaker 1: was a first round pick in twenty twenty, a former
10:43
Speaker 1: top one hundred prospect in MLB and he's twenty three.
10:46
Speaker 1: Give him the time. This is the time in the
10:48
Speaker 1: organization where they can actually afford to do so. And
10:51
Speaker 1: in years, you know, the last ten years, there would
10:53
Speaker 1: not be a window for Jordan Walker. So let's, you know,
10:57
Speaker 1: understand that there needs to be more of a buy
10:59
Speaker 1: in from the play who and I'll read some more
11:01
Speaker 1: quotes from Jordan seems to understand that now as we
11:04
Speaker 1: roll into September and that runways all of a sudden
11:06
Speaker 1: coming up to a clear end. But for Walker, when
11:10
Speaker 1: you're looking at who he is as a player, I
11:13
Speaker 1: mean this quote right here from Ollie Marmel yesterday in
11:16
Speaker 1: the pregame media scrum, I think shows exactly how the
11:20
Speaker 1: organization feels about him. Allie said he was candid. We
11:23
Speaker 1: have not seen the consistency that we would have hoped
11:25
Speaker 1: for by now regarding Walker Our hope is that changes.
11:28
Speaker 1: He is still young, and this could flip at any moment.
11:31
Speaker 1: We've seen other players where that's the case, where it's
11:33
Speaker 1: an off season away type of thing. But there's real
11:35
Speaker 1: work to be done here, and there's a real level
11:37
Speaker 1: of dedication and consistency that come with it. And here's
11:40
Speaker 1: what Jordan Walker said, I just need to be consistent
11:44
Speaker 1: with the approach. Figure out what is that fault when
11:46
Speaker 1: things are going bad? What's going well when things are
11:48
Speaker 1: going good? I asked Jordan, then what does he need
11:50
Speaker 1: to see in the final three weeks of the season,
11:52
Speaker 1: and he said, better play, better discipline. Play discipline is
11:55
Speaker 1: where I really need to show the biggest growth in
11:57
Speaker 1: my personal opinion. Once the play discipline is there, I'll
12:00
Speaker 1: get something to hit and I'll hammer it or I'll walk.
12:03
Speaker 1: Play discipline approach often tie in. They're very similar. So
12:07
Speaker 1: the manager, the hitting coach, and the player are saying
12:10
Speaker 1: the same thing. Now can Jordan do it? That is
12:13
Speaker 1: the big question of something that Bernie, you and I
12:14
Speaker 1: can dive into a little bit more. After a quick
12:16
Speaker 1: message from our friends at DraftKings, NFL Fans Week one
12:20
Speaker 1: just became your place to play free and grow the bag.
12:22
Speaker 1: DraftKings Pick six, an official partner of the NFL, is
12:24
Speaker 1: here with bag builder, a completely free way to play
12:26
Speaker 1: for a sure one million dollars or more in cash.
12:28
Speaker 1: Download the Pick six app. DraftKings easiest way to play
12:30
Speaker 1: fantasy using code foul. Enter for free. Just make six
12:33
Speaker 1: picks more or less on players hats for Week one,
12:35
Speaker 1: No entry fee, no catch. Want an even bigger shot?
12:37
Speaker 1: Share your link with friends to add more cash to
12:39
Speaker 1: the bag and get bonus shots to win. As the
12:40
Speaker 1: player count goes up, so does the prize. Hit all
12:42
Speaker 1: six of your picks and you'lways putting a bag that's
12:44
Speaker 1: already at one million dollars or more. Don't just sit back.
12:46
Speaker 1: Get in for free, build a bag and run it up.
12:48
Speaker 1: Download the DraftKings Pick six app. Use code foul often
12:50
Speaker 1: and start stacking entries for NFL Week one zero cost,
12:53
Speaker 1: huge upside and partnership with DraftKings Pick six. The Crown
12:56
Speaker 1: is Yours gambling problem called one eight hundred. Gambler help
12:58
Speaker 1: was available for problem gambling called eight eight eight seventy
13:00
Speaker 1: eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org.
13:03
Speaker 1: In Connecticut. Must be eighteen plus agent L's Reilly. Restrictions
13:06
Speaker 1: vary by jurisdiction. Pick sixs not available everywhere, including New
13:08
Speaker 1: York and Ontario. Boyd, We're phibited. Mustfpen token for free
13:11
Speaker 1: entry and back builder contest only for the countries earn
13:13
Speaker 1: shaff Cash prize token their single use and expire September
13:15
Speaker 1: eight at eight fifteen pm Eastern. Terms of Pick six
13:17
Speaker 1: drop DraftKings dot Com slash promos that averread gives me.
13:22
Speaker 1: It stresses me out. It really does. Every time I
13:25
Speaker 1: hear it, I actually like puts me in a weird mood.
13:29
Speaker 1: I do not like hearing it.
13:30
Speaker 2: I'm doing this. I'm doing the same thing now at
13:33
Speaker 2: Stales Sports Center with some new DraftKings copy which I'm
13:35
Speaker 2: happy to read. But uh yeah I haven't. I haven't
13:40
Speaker 2: stu I have. I haven't stumbled around too too badly.
13:45
Speaker 2: So I'll do it, Okay, not as good as you though.
13:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know you got to bring the best
13:49
Speaker 1: for our sponsors, So that's right. No, that was a
13:52
Speaker 1: lot anyway. Anyway, Bertie, let this. I think it's safe
13:55
Speaker 1: to say this will probably just be a Walker episode
13:57
Speaker 1: because there is so much to break down here. Now
13:59
Speaker 1: that we know kind of where the rooted issue is,
14:02
Speaker 1: and I don't want this to come across as Jordan
14:04
Speaker 1: being like defiant. Okay, I also agree with you that
14:08
Speaker 1: this is not a situation where the Cardinals are really
14:10
Speaker 1: asking him to do anything outside of the ordinary. They
14:13
Speaker 1: already did that when they asked him to play Major
14:15
Speaker 1: League played. The outfield in the major leagues was six
14:17
Speaker 1: weeks of prep. Okay, that was outrageous. This is what
14:20
Speaker 1: almost every player in the big leagues is asked to
14:22
Speaker 1: do at some point in their career. Adapt and change
14:25
Speaker 1: your approach, and that can be really hard. In twenty
14:28
Speaker 1: three and twenty four, Jordan what was doing that? And
14:31
Speaker 1: he knew if he didn't hint in two or three weeks,
14:32
Speaker 1: he was going right back to the miners this year.
14:35
Speaker 1: That was the whole point. He wouldn't have to go
14:37
Speaker 1: back to the miners. They identified that before the season
14:40
Speaker 1: even started. Regardless of results, Walker is going to play.
14:44
Speaker 1: Now it's September, so that philosophy doesn't fly as hard
14:46
Speaker 1: as it did in the first half. To your point,
14:49
Speaker 1: he hasn't been playing well, and the Cardinals wild reward
14:51
Speaker 1: playing time to the players that have seized the opportunity
14:54
Speaker 1: throughout the season. That doesn't mean they're giving up on Jordan.
14:57
Speaker 1: It just means they need to see more of a
14:59
Speaker 1: commit meant to what they believe is the right approach. So,
15:02
Speaker 1: if that being said, Bernie, with twenty plus games left
15:05
Speaker 1: in this twenty twenty five season, what should we expect
15:08
Speaker 1: from Walker to finish the year? That would if he
15:11
Speaker 1: finishes it this way per se? How would you be
15:13
Speaker 1: optimistic about that?
15:15
Speaker 2: Well? I probably wouldn't. I mean, listen, I don't rule
15:18
Speaker 2: out the fact that he might go on a nice
15:20
Speaker 2: run here over the final three weeks, but I don't
15:24
Speaker 2: know that I would have faith in it because you
15:26
Speaker 2: get into twenty twenty six and then he starts off
15:29
Speaker 2: slowly things like that. I mean, we've seen this cycle
15:31
Speaker 2: over and over again, and then he loses his confidence
15:34
Speaker 2: and he presses and he starts swinging and everything again.
15:36
Speaker 2: He gets away from the plan. It's just his never,
15:40
Speaker 2: never ending thing. It just you never know when to
15:46
Speaker 2: trust it. You're starting to feel good about him and
15:48
Speaker 2: then it just falls apart again. And the one thing
15:52
Speaker 2: I'll say that really does bother me about Jordan Walker.
15:55
Speaker 2: I want what's best for him. I'm hoping for him
15:58
Speaker 2: to succeed. I am not a Jodan Walker hater by
16:01
Speaker 2: any stretch of the imagination, but it does trouble me
16:05
Speaker 2: when you have the hitting coach and the manager basically
16:07
Speaker 2: saying he lacks commitment, you know, And that reduces my
16:12
Speaker 2: level of empathy, I would say, because you would think
16:16
Speaker 2: that after failing you know so much, and he's obviously frustrated,
16:22
Speaker 2: he wants to do well. But after failing so much
16:26
Speaker 2: and having to you know, always hear about basically the
16:30
Speaker 2: fact that he's doing so poorly, I would think that
16:34
Speaker 2: he would just be motivated to the max to just
16:38
Speaker 2: go total buy in with everything Brent Brown's teaching. And
16:42
Speaker 2: he ought to start by calling Albert poolholes because Albert
16:45
Speaker 2: pool holes is to tell them what he did for Albert,
16:48
Speaker 2: and he did a lot for Albert. This is one
16:50
Speaker 2: of the great hitters in the history of the game.
16:53
Speaker 2: So Jordan's got to make that total buy in. And
16:55
Speaker 2: I like what he said to you. I read those
16:57
Speaker 2: comments in your story, which was well done. As always,
17:00
Speaker 2: I really like what he said, but I hope this
17:04
Speaker 2: time he really, really really means it, because we sort
17:07
Speaker 2: of have heard this before and I'm not saying he's
17:11
Speaker 2: being dishonest or anything like, not at all, But as
17:14
Speaker 2: soon as he gets frustrated, it's sure he goes back
17:16
Speaker 2: to his natural reflex and he gets off course again.
17:20
Speaker 2: But man, you know you got to buy in, You
17:24
Speaker 2: got you got to buy in totally, and you got
17:26
Speaker 2: to stay bought in. I mean, Brent Brown and these
17:30
Speaker 2: coaches have have have helped Alec Burlison. They've gotten him
17:34
Speaker 2: to a new level. I know Nolan Gorman is is
17:37
Speaker 2: in a really bad spot again, so I don't know
17:39
Speaker 2: where that's gonna lead, but they had made a lot
17:41
Speaker 2: of headway with Nolan Gorman, who who followed their their formula.
17:46
Speaker 2: And they've also done the same with Pedro Pahes who
17:49
Speaker 2: all of a sudden is a good hitter. They're not
17:52
Speaker 2: the only ones. I mean, they are getting results from
17:55
Speaker 2: some young hitters that have bought in. And Jordan Walker
17:59
Speaker 2: has just got to buy in. And if he does that,
18:02
Speaker 2: I would feel a lot better about his future. But
18:05
Speaker 2: right now I'm pessimistic, not unreasonably so, but I would
18:10
Speaker 2: have to say I'm more pessimistic than optimistic.
18:13
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. And I also think that penning
18:16
Speaker 1: this on one hitting coach. Jordan Walker's had three hitting
18:19
Speaker 1: coaches all right, russ Steinhorne. He worked really well with
18:23
Speaker 1: russ Steinhorn, a former hitting coordinator for the organization down
18:26
Speaker 1: in the minor leagues. You think about what Turner Ward
18:29
Speaker 1: was doing here and now you have Bran Brown like there.
18:31
Speaker 1: I don't think it has anything to do with one
18:33
Speaker 1: specific hitting coach, although what Bran Brown has been doing
18:36
Speaker 1: I think is again the most buy in that we've
18:38
Speaker 1: seen from players. Still with Jordan, some work to be
18:42
Speaker 1: done obviously for Walker. I'm with you. I don't think
18:45
Speaker 1: a hot three weeks to finish the season is going
18:48
Speaker 1: to negate five months of lackluster performance. I mean, he
18:51
Speaker 1: has no ps under six hundred on the season, he said,
18:54
Speaker 1: just five homers. The strikeout rate is very high. What
18:58
Speaker 1: I would love to see from Jordan to finish. It's
19:00
Speaker 1: just a strong run. But I honestly think we won't
19:03
Speaker 1: be able to define what's next for him or what
19:05
Speaker 1: the expectations are for him next season until heim Bloom
19:08
Speaker 1: takes over one thing that I will admit it's unfair
19:12
Speaker 1: that reporters do, but it's kind of unfortunate the nature
19:15
Speaker 1: of the business right now is. We've continued to ask
19:18
Speaker 1: Ollie marmal about the development of players and evaluation by
19:21
Speaker 1: the organization. It is his job and his coaching staff's
19:25
Speaker 1: job to develop the players at the big league level.
19:27
Speaker 1: Whether or not that should be happening at the major
19:29
Speaker 1: leagues we can, we can debate, but that's where the
19:32
Speaker 1: Cardinals are right now, and that's what they've defined as
19:34
Speaker 1: the coaching staff's priority. It should not be on the
19:36
Speaker 1: manager to also speak on how the organization views these players.
19:40
Speaker 1: But because of where the Cardinals are in the transition season,
19:43
Speaker 1: John Mozelak is still the voice of the Cardinals and
19:45
Speaker 1: is still communicating the message of the players on the
19:48
Speaker 1: major league roster. Heim Bloom is the one that is
19:51
Speaker 1: going to be evaluating Jordan Walker and where he fits
19:53
Speaker 1: in next year. So for more to go out and
19:56
Speaker 1: speak on the evaluation of Walker doesn't really do a
19:58
Speaker 1: lot for really, not that I don't care what Mo says,
20:01
Speaker 1: but I if I'm a fan or if I'm evaluating
20:04
Speaker 1: the future of the organization, what Mo thinks of a
20:06
Speaker 1: player right now doesn't say much to what it means
20:09
Speaker 1: for that player's future because he won't be there. I
20:11
Speaker 1: would really like to hear one time and Rob's folio
20:15
Speaker 1: and Larry Day feel about Jordan Walker, and I think
20:17
Speaker 1: we'll get more of an indication after the end of
20:20
Speaker 1: the season. I don't think Walker can just erase the
20:23
Speaker 1: five months of honest disappointing a disappointing season. He can
20:28
Speaker 1: in the next three weeks show some semblance of committing
20:30
Speaker 1: to the approach turning things around. It's not really going
20:33
Speaker 1: to reflect in the box score, but give this new
20:35
Speaker 1: front office a reason for optimism, a reason to believe
20:38
Speaker 1: that with a new off season, with continued new people
20:41
Speaker 1: in personnel in the minor leagues out of the complex,
20:44
Speaker 1: that they can continue to build upon this. I wouldn't
20:46
Speaker 1: say it's a lost season for Jordan. I will say
20:48
Speaker 1: it's a disappointing one. But there is still time for
20:52
Speaker 1: him to give give the front office something and see
20:55
Speaker 1: what this new personnel can do over the off season,
20:58
Speaker 1: and we'll have a better idea of Jordan Walker come
21:00
Speaker 1: spring training. It's a toxic cycle. I know for some
21:03
Speaker 1: players it's worth it, though, and I believe Jordan Walker
21:05
Speaker 1: is worth it.
21:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of stake here because if you
21:08
Speaker 2: look at the Cardinals system. Okay, Joshua Obiaz, who they
21:13
Speaker 2: drafted him out of high school in twenty twenty one,
21:16
Speaker 2: the year after they drafted Walker out of high school,
21:19
Speaker 2: and Joshua Baya, Joshua Bias is it's interesting to compare
21:23
Speaker 2: the two. Josh Joshua Biaz really really really struggled, you know,
21:28
Speaker 2: coming out of high school. He didn't do anything, you know,
21:31
Speaker 2: up until this year, and his prospect light had faded.
21:36
Speaker 2: He was still good. They were still going to keep
21:37
Speaker 2: him around, but all of a sudden, he's a hot
21:39
Speaker 2: prospect again. He finally figured it out. It finally clicked.
21:44
Speaker 2: And that's one thing I haven't brought up. I look
21:46
Speaker 2: at it. I actually look at I should have like
21:49
Speaker 2: written about this, Actually I look at it. Joshua O
21:51
Speaker 2: Bias And even though it's happening in the minor leagues,
21:55
Speaker 2: when people were starting to doubt that it would ever happen,
21:58
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the kids failigured everything out. He's
22:01
Speaker 2: still very very young, and he'll be knocking on the
22:04
Speaker 2: door of the major leagues next season. At some point
22:06
Speaker 2: he will be. I mean, he's got thirty stolen bases,
22:10
Speaker 2: he's cut down and strikeout rate by a huge amount.
22:13
Speaker 2: He'll draw walks now hits for average. I mean, he's
22:17
Speaker 2: got a really great on base present. All of a
22:19
Speaker 2: sudden he's figured it out. Now he'll have to do
22:22
Speaker 2: that at the major league level. But anyway, the reason
22:25
Speaker 2: why I'm pointing that out because I'm not trying to
22:27
Speaker 2: dismiss any other Cardinals prospects outfielders. That's one guy for
22:32
Speaker 2: sure who's on the rise, and he's rising quickly by.
22:36
Speaker 2: But there's still time for Walker to establish himself next
22:42
Speaker 2: year as like, no, I'm a centerpiece. You're not going
22:48
Speaker 2: to replace me. You know, I'm playing in my territory here.
22:52
Speaker 2: This is when it happens, this is where I get
22:55
Speaker 2: it done. Believe in me because I'll show you, and
22:59
Speaker 2: you know, you look at it that way, and every
23:01
Speaker 2: player is different. They're not wired the same way. So
23:04
Speaker 2: it's hard for me to say, well, he should be
23:06
Speaker 2: like this guy, he should be like that guy. It
23:09
Speaker 2: came really easy for him in the major in the
23:11
Speaker 2: minor leagues, talking about Walker, whereas Baiaz couldn't figure anything
23:15
Speaker 2: out in the minor leagues. But Bias maybe because he
23:19
Speaker 2: had extra time down there, maybe that's what he needed.
23:22
Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe Walker came to the big leagues
23:25
Speaker 2: too soon. It's easy to second guess that now. On
23:29
Speaker 2: the other hand, he was good as a rookie, so
23:32
Speaker 2: it's a very confusing thing. But it's not like they
23:35
Speaker 2: have five or six premium prospect outfielders knocking on the door,
23:39
Speaker 2: so there's no rush to trade him. They because it's
23:43
Speaker 2: a rebuild that they still have hein Blum in his
23:47
Speaker 2: his people. They have plenty of time to try to
23:50
Speaker 2: get Jordan Walker turned around, because that's what a rebuild
23:54
Speaker 2: is all about. And so Walker figures prominent into that,
23:57
Speaker 2: and there's not enough other prospects were passing him by.
24:02
Speaker 2: So it's a good time for him after the season,
24:05
Speaker 2: get through this final few weeks, it's a very good
24:09
Speaker 2: time for him to kind of re establish himself, commit
24:14
Speaker 2: to change, and give heim Bloom and his people confidence
24:17
Speaker 2: that he's figuring something out.
24:20
Speaker 1: Agreed. Agreed, and we are consistent on this podcast. We
24:23
Speaker 1: have been Jordan Walker truthers since episode one. We remain
24:27
Speaker 1: that way on episode ninety one. While acknowledging it has
24:30
Speaker 1: not looked the way that we'd hoped or expected it to,
24:33
Speaker 1: I still think there's no reason to give up on
24:36
Speaker 1: this player just yet, there's no reason to get up
24:39
Speaker 1: on a lot of these guys. Honestly, heading into twenty
24:41
Speaker 1: twenty six, we'll hear from our pals at True Classics first,
24:46
Speaker 1: and then I'll get into some interesting comments only Marvel
24:48
Speaker 1: made about the progression of his roster. So we will
24:51
Speaker 1: be right back.
24:53
Speaker 3: Ft FAM. Designer clothes can be expensive, but we want
24:56
Speaker 3: our clothes to look good. We want to feel good.
24:58
Speaker 3: We want them to be affordable and krats. If you
25:01
Speaker 3: tell me that I can wear a T shirt that
25:03
Speaker 3: looks like it's tailored but it's not actually tailored and
25:06
Speaker 3: it just comes that way, then sign me up for
25:08
Speaker 3: True Classic.
25:10
Speaker 4: Have to you gotta sign up for it because these
25:12
Speaker 4: shirts are soft, they're thin, they're durable, and they're very versatile.
25:18
Speaker 4: You can wear them to the gym, you can wear
25:19
Speaker 4: them out to a nice dinner. Let's get after it
25:22
Speaker 4: because these shirts are the real deal.
25:25
Speaker 2: They are. Check it out.
25:26
Speaker 3: I've got one of the performance ones. It's a nice
25:28
Speaker 3: blue fits well. I can go to the gym, I
25:31
Speaker 3: can go out, I can do ft in a shirt
25:34
Speaker 3: like this. FTFAM. There's a reason why True Classic has
25:37
Speaker 3: sold over twenty five million shirts. To more than five
25:40
Speaker 3: million customers, and they are racking up over two hundred
25:43
Speaker 3: thousand and five star reviews.
25:45
Speaker 2: See for yourself with our exclusive.
25:46
Speaker 3: Link at true classic dot com slash foul to say
25:49
Speaker 3: that's True Classic dot com slash foul.
25:54
Speaker 1: All right. Our last segment before ending this podcast, we
25:59
Speaker 1: had a long, about twenty minute conversation with Ollie Marvel
26:02
Speaker 1: before Tuesday's game. Usually those sessions range to about fifteen minutes,
26:05
Speaker 1: but this one was twenty five minutes. On the record
26:08
Speaker 1: started with Jordan and progressed to the roster in general,
26:12
Speaker 1: and I asked him and I said, I'm reading off
26:15
Speaker 1: my transcript right now. I said, I'm not here to
26:17
Speaker 1: say that every single player should have taken career strides
26:19
Speaker 1: this season, But in your mind, is there anyone outside
26:22
Speaker 1: of Burlison and Herrera that has either done what you
26:24
Speaker 1: thought they should do this season or exceeded it? And
26:29
Speaker 1: the way that Allie broke down player by player I
26:31
Speaker 1: thought was super interesting. He started with Donovan, of course,
26:34
Speaker 1: just had a career year. I know he's hurt right now,
26:37
Speaker 1: so that's unfortunate, but his first half was really special,
26:39
Speaker 1: and I think as an organization, you're confident in what
26:42
Speaker 1: Donovan can bring to the table, whether or not you
26:44
Speaker 1: trade him as a different story for a different episode.
26:46
Speaker 1: But then he went and broke down the pieces that
26:49
Speaker 1: we've been talking about pretty much all season in terms
26:51
Speaker 1: of what they need to do in September to solidify
26:53
Speaker 1: themselves next year. He said, Lars Nupar, we're seeing him
26:56
Speaker 1: not be as one dimensional as a hitter. How he's
26:58
Speaker 1: taking his approach, taking his singles the way and hitting
27:00
Speaker 1: the ball through the middle of the field. He said,
27:02
Speaker 1: that's what's next for Lars in his career. We know
27:04
Speaker 1: if he sits dead and tries to pull what pull
27:07
Speaker 1: any ball, we know what that looks like. He can
27:09
Speaker 1: draw walks and run into ball's pull side. But we
27:11
Speaker 1: want him to be more of a more dimensional hitter
27:13
Speaker 1: right now, and I do think we are seeing that
27:15
Speaker 1: from Lars. He broke down Burlison and Herrera said they
27:18
Speaker 1: were absolute yeses in terms of improvement for Mason Win.
27:22
Speaker 1: I'll he acknowledge the drop and average and ops, but
27:25
Speaker 1: a huge gain and how he's approaching his events, and
27:27
Speaker 1: like we just spent this whole episode talking about approach
27:30
Speaker 1: is very important. He's less worried about short term than
27:34
Speaker 1: results or short term result, and more about approach and
27:37
Speaker 1: adjustability of what Mason's doing. So I think that also
27:39
Speaker 1: goes back to what we talked about Bernie with guys
27:42
Speaker 1: buying into Brent Brown's approach. We're seeing that from Mason
27:45
Speaker 1: a little bit more, and I do believe the results
27:47
Speaker 1: will follow. We've talked about Nolan Gorman all year long,
27:50
Speaker 1: and his walk rate, the swing rate or the chase
27:53
Speaker 1: rate is cut down. With Gorman, as we know, there's
27:55
Speaker 1: always going to be that swing and miss. That's just
27:57
Speaker 1: how he profiles. But it has looked better, not late,
28:00
Speaker 1: but overall in a whole season, it's looked much better.
28:03
Speaker 1: And then Victor Scott the second I thought this was interesting,
28:06
Speaker 1: he said, Victor, I think was he's so raw in
28:08
Speaker 1: his understanding of how he's being pitched to and how
28:10
Speaker 1: to combat that that's just going to take time. That's
28:13
Speaker 1: more of a just we want to see Victor continue
28:15
Speaker 1: to do what he's doing, continue to prepare, don't change
28:18
Speaker 1: anything as far as preparation, just give it time. And
28:21
Speaker 1: then I only said it for me. Walker is the
28:23
Speaker 1: one that essentially just has not lived up to the
28:26
Speaker 1: expectations this season, when you break down those lists of players,
28:29
Speaker 1: those core players that we assume until we're told otherwise,
28:31
Speaker 1: will be on the team in twenty twenty six. I
28:34
Speaker 1: actually think this transition season was helpful because for so
28:37
Speaker 1: many of these players, you now know what to expect
28:40
Speaker 1: coming in twenty twenty six.
28:42
Speaker 2: No, I agree. I think it's been more positive in
28:45
Speaker 2: terms of a case by case basis, and some of
28:48
Speaker 2: the cases there's been both positive and negative. And like
28:52
Speaker 2: I Nolan Gorman, for example, I asked Oli about Nolan
28:55
Speaker 2: Gorman a lot, and Olie, you know when Gordon and
29:00
Speaker 2: starting late May, you know, put together a run that
29:03
Speaker 2: really continued until recently until late August, and now he's
29:08
Speaker 2: really struggling again. You know, Ali always was complimentary and
29:12
Speaker 2: he meant it, but he also held back a little bit.
29:15
Speaker 2: I don't think they were entirely sold that he could
29:17
Speaker 2: maintain the plate discipline that he started to show that
29:19
Speaker 2: was long overdue, and they were grateful to see it.
29:22
Speaker 2: And sure enough, I mean, and I'm a Gorman guy,
29:25
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, but sure enough, I mean, these
29:28
Speaker 2: last seven or eight games or whatever it is, it's
29:32
Speaker 2: it's like all the good stuff never happened. I mean,
29:35
Speaker 2: he's got like a strikeout rate of fifty percent like
29:37
Speaker 2: the last week or so, and so on one hand,
29:42
Speaker 2: you saw the product. I think Gorman is like a
29:44
Speaker 2: good example, like a good symbol of the of the
29:46
Speaker 2: runway and all that stuff, because he did but he
29:49
Speaker 2: totally bought into what they were preaching right, and he
29:53
Speaker 2: got results. He absolutely got results, and he turned his
29:58
Speaker 2: career trajectory or round. You know, from the from late
30:02
Speaker 2: May until around the third week of August, he was,
30:07
Speaker 2: if not the best hitter on the team, top two,
30:10
Speaker 2: top three in every category. But now we see now
30:13
Speaker 2: we see him kind of reverting, just the way we
30:15
Speaker 2: saw you know, we're talking about Jordan Walker reverting. So
30:20
Speaker 2: you see guys make progress and it's exciting. But then
30:24
Speaker 2: with some of them, Gorman for sure, Walker for sure,
30:28
Speaker 2: there's always this little thing in the back of your mind.
30:30
Speaker 2: It's like, well, I don't know if I'm sold on
30:34
Speaker 2: this quite yet, and I don't know if any other
30:37
Speaker 2: type of hitters, you know, kind of qualify that group.
30:42
Speaker 2: I mean, you look at Herrera. I was wondering with him,
30:44
Speaker 2: like he hadn't hit for power in a while. He
30:46
Speaker 2: he's kind of faded from the standpoint of you know,
30:49
Speaker 2: oomph in his attack. But now he's gotten it back,
30:53
Speaker 2: he's made adjustments, he's sticking in the strike zone better.
30:56
Speaker 2: So that's another good example. Herrera has developed. Even in
30:59
Speaker 2: the season where he had some problems, he's bounced back,
31:02
Speaker 2: he's gotten back to what he has to do to
31:04
Speaker 2: be successful, and we're seeing him rise again. So that's
31:07
Speaker 2: a good sign. So on a case by case base is,
31:10
Speaker 2: you can see some really good signs. You can see
31:13
Speaker 2: some disappointments. You can see players who basically do both
31:16
Speaker 2: of those things. You know, they're up and down, which
31:19
Speaker 2: is baseball. So but all in all, on a case
31:21
Speaker 2: by case basis, they did find out about several of
31:24
Speaker 2: their guys, and I think that was important and a
31:27
Speaker 2: lot of.
31:27
Speaker 1: That to your point, Bernie, is baseball, like the whole
31:30
Speaker 1: point of a season is to adjust. And then when
31:34
Speaker 1: you pitchers start making adjustments towards you readjust every player slumps. Okay,
31:39
Speaker 1: to go out there and say that Nolan Gorman was
31:40
Speaker 1: not going to sump it all this season, or new
31:42
Speaker 1: barton him and pick your player, even Burlison and Herrera,
31:45
Speaker 1: the two I think most consistent offensive players have slumped
31:48
Speaker 1: this year. That is baseball. What is important is that
31:52
Speaker 1: these players continue to adjust like we've seen Herrera do,
31:54
Speaker 1: like we've said Burlison do, Can we see Gorman do
31:58
Speaker 1: that to finish the season. That's what I'm looking at.
32:00
Speaker 1: A two week slump in the grand scheme of one
32:02
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two game season, that happening two or
32:05
Speaker 1: three times a season, that does not even factor into
32:08
Speaker 1: my evaluations as a player. You account for those and
32:11
Speaker 1: you just figure they're going to happen, because that's what
32:13
Speaker 1: happens in baseball. Your favorite hitter, whether that's Shoeo Tani,
32:16
Speaker 1: whether that's Freddie Freeman, whether it's take your pick Aaron
32:19
Speaker 1: Judge slumps. So the fact that Nolan Gorman is going
32:23
Speaker 1: through something right now doesn't do a lot for me
32:25
Speaker 1: on the worry scale. As long as he can show
32:27
Speaker 1: in the final twenty or so games that he can
32:29
Speaker 1: turn it around a little bit. That's what we need
32:31
Speaker 1: to see from these players is how they adjust. Not
32:33
Speaker 1: that they're slumping, because that's going to happen, but how
32:35
Speaker 1: do they adjust and kick themselves out of it like
32:37
Speaker 1: we've seen Herrera do over the last couple of games.
32:39
Speaker 1: Can you make it three games with three homers? Let's see, Bernie.
32:43
Speaker 1: We have Matthew libertore on the mound today. I thought
32:46
Speaker 1: his outing in Cincinnati was better. I know it has
32:50
Speaker 1: not been the second half that he had envisioned. But
32:52
Speaker 1: one thing that a story I'm working on is changing
32:56
Speaker 1: how we evaluate these pitchers. We are no longer looking
33:00
Speaker 1: at box score results when it comes to the careers
33:02
Speaker 1: of Matthew Libertor, Michael mcgreeby, and Andre Polante. We are looking
33:06
Speaker 1: at the predictive stats to see what this team can
33:09
Speaker 1: count on next season. It's not a great place to
33:11
Speaker 1: be as a fan. You want to care about going
33:12
Speaker 1: out there and when he never gave me, I get it.
33:14
Speaker 1: But for what the Cardinals are trying to do, especially
33:16
Speaker 1: with these three players, because we know how thin that
33:18
Speaker 1: rotation looks next year, is to look at the stats
33:22
Speaker 1: that predict how they're going to have future success and
33:24
Speaker 1: where they measure up. For Libby, it's a lot about
33:27
Speaker 1: different command of different pitches, sustaining below To an extent,
33:32
Speaker 1: I'm less worried about what anying he gets to tonight.
33:35
Speaker 1: I'm more interested to see where that pitch count is
33:38
Speaker 1: when the below starts to drop, and I think that's
33:40
Speaker 1: how the Cardinals are evaluating him as well. What would
33:43
Speaker 1: you like to see from Libby tonight?
33:45
Speaker 2: Well, I think you summed it up very well. I
33:47
Speaker 2: don't know if I have anything really good to add.
33:49
Speaker 2: I think he's still learning how to pitch as a
33:51
Speaker 2: starting pitcher in the major leagues, which means you have
33:54
Speaker 2: to diversify your pitch mix, you have to introduce new pitches,
33:59
Speaker 2: which he's done at least, you know, with one pitch
34:02
Speaker 2: he's thrown differently. Now he's made that adjustment, and you know,
34:06
Speaker 2: you have to show hitters that you can't, that you're
34:08
Speaker 2: not predictable, and that they can't. They better stay sharp
34:13
Speaker 2: because you're not going to make it easy for them.
34:16
Speaker 2: And I think that this is why I like him,
34:19
Speaker 2: and I'm not down on him at all. I think
34:21
Speaker 2: he's a really smart guy. I think he's extremely competitive.
34:25
Speaker 2: I think he wants to learn, and I think he
34:28
Speaker 2: has a lot of self awareness. I mean, he knows
34:31
Speaker 2: what he's got to do and he's smart enough to
34:33
Speaker 2: do it, and it's just a process. And so he
34:36
Speaker 2: hit the proverbial speed bump, but I think he's been
34:40
Speaker 2: bouncing back for that. Yeah, you'd like to see more
34:42
Speaker 2: swing and miss and all that, But again, this is
34:46
Speaker 2: kind of a learning season for him. He'd never been
34:48
Speaker 2: a starting pitcher in the big leagues before. So I'm
34:52
Speaker 2: good with him, and I think that the more he
34:56
Speaker 2: the more he sort of an hants is his pitchs.
35:01
Speaker 2: I think that's one step that is going to do
35:04
Speaker 2: do him good. If he can continue to do that.
35:07
Speaker 1: Well, let's see what Libby's got in this thrilling September
35:10
Speaker 1: interleague series between two teams below five hundred. Well, we'll see.
35:14
Speaker 1: Bushtadium looked a little barren yesterday. I would expect more
35:17
Speaker 1: of the same. Seventeen thousand, seventeen thousand and two the
35:21
Speaker 1: smallest full capacity crowd in the history of bus Jadium. Two.
35:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, I don't. Yeah, are we down to the
35:29
Speaker 2: diehards now? Or like, in other words, everyone's jumped off,
35:33
Speaker 2: But what are the Cardinals down to? What the hardcore
35:35
Speaker 2: twenty thousand now twenty three thousand? It seems seems like
35:38
Speaker 2: it seems like it.
35:40
Speaker 1: It's interesting. It's definitely interesting. I do like the fact
35:43
Speaker 1: that the sections are so like they're so randomized. There
35:48
Speaker 1: are like two or three people in each section, which
35:50
Speaker 1: means the section might below the press box. I can
35:51
Speaker 1: hear every conversation whatever fans are sitting there. They have
35:55
Speaker 1: been hilarious the last three days. It just nonstops haven't
36:00
Speaker 1: taken notes.
36:01
Speaker 2: You know what, you know what, you know what I'd
36:02
Speaker 2: like to do. I'm sorry to extend this. I know
36:04
Speaker 2: you got to get moving, but I'm actually going to
36:06
Speaker 2: talk about your home territory.
36:07
Speaker 1: Oh gosh.
36:08
Speaker 2: I love the old Candlestick Park for many, many, many,
36:11
Speaker 2: many many reasons. If number one had saved my life
36:14
Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighty nine World Series with the earthquake,
36:17
Speaker 2: I'm them there in the upper deck and I feel
36:19
Speaker 2: the whole stadium swaying, and I really thought I was
36:21
Speaker 2: gonna die. So talking to some Bay Area writers said,
36:24
Speaker 2: you know, they have made this thing earthquake proof, and
36:27
Speaker 2: I'm like, thank you, Candlestick. I will always love you.
36:30
Speaker 2: And it's true. But I used to love when I've
36:34
Speaker 2: traveled all the time. I used to love when i'd
36:36
Speaker 2: get my early column done or whatever with ballparks where
36:40
Speaker 2: there were a lot of open because they weren't drawing it.
36:42
Speaker 2: I used to love to move around the ballpark. I'd
36:44
Speaker 2: go for like two or three innings. I'd say to
36:47
Speaker 2: Rick Hummel, I'll be back. I'm just gonna walk the ballpark.
36:50
Speaker 2: I go here, I go sit there. I'd taken the
36:53
Speaker 2: vantage point I'd listened in on fans and what they
36:56
Speaker 2: were saying. I'm seeing what everybody's eating. I'm just taking
36:59
Speaker 2: mental notes and just sort of getting the ballpark experience.
37:02
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would say to fans, this is a
37:05
Speaker 2: great time to actually come. And I'm not trying to
37:07
Speaker 2: sell tickets here, but it's like Bush Stadium, like you
37:10
Speaker 2: haven't seen it before. You can walk around, you got
37:12
Speaker 2: freedom to move, you can try things out. It's kind
37:15
Speaker 2: of casual, it's not you're not all packed in so
37:17
Speaker 2: anyway there there is actually some peace and enjoyment in
37:22
Speaker 2: that type of experience. I used to do that all
37:24
Speaker 2: the time on the road.
37:26
Speaker 1: It is very relaxing. I did exactly that on Sunday
37:29
Speaker 1: at Great American Ballpark. It was like the third inning
37:32
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna take
37:33
Speaker 1: a lap around this ballpark because I've never done that before.
37:36
Speaker 1: For I've been a Great American Ballpark like thirty times,
37:38
Speaker 1: and I've never taken a full lap and it was
37:41
Speaker 1: just so cool. I love doing that for different away games,
37:43
Speaker 1: especially if the away team is kind of a like
37:46
Speaker 1: not a super full stadium. So I get it, Bernie.
37:49
Speaker 1: And also my dad was at that game three nineteen
37:52
Speaker 1: eighty nine game Giants as my dad grew up in
37:54
Speaker 1: the Bay Area and one has actually my grandma called
37:58
Speaker 1: in and won tickets on a radio station for him.
38:01
Speaker 1: My dad still to this day, is like bewildered because
38:03
Speaker 1: she doesn't like sports, but she knew that my dad
38:05
Speaker 1: wanted to go, so she figured she'd try and then
38:07
Speaker 1: won the tickets. So there he is. I actually have
38:09
Speaker 1: the ticket in on my Sports Memoria bookcase from that game.
38:13
Speaker 1: You'd be shocked to know. If you know my father
38:15
Speaker 1: at all, he had no idea what was going on.
38:17
Speaker 1: He thought like fans were like stomping their feet.
38:18
Speaker 2: And I did too.
38:19
Speaker 1: I did too, and home way later did he find
38:22
Speaker 1: out that it was actually a devastating earthquakes.
38:25
Speaker 2: There's a Bay Area reporter that I knew very well.
38:27
Speaker 2: I'm talking to him a long time, Bob Padecki, and
38:30
Speaker 2: he was like two seats down for me in the
38:31
Speaker 2: auxiliary box, which is out in the stands and I
38:34
Speaker 2: looked at him terrified, he said, and he said, earthquake.
38:39
Speaker 1: That's so California.
38:40
Speaker 2: That's the most Caliorniy said, He's like, hold tight, earthquake.
38:43
Speaker 2: And I was just like, what do you made? Earthquake?
38:45
Speaker 2: You know, it seemed like it went on for two
38:47
Speaker 2: minutes and it was only like ten seconds. But man,
38:50
Speaker 2: what a story. What inexperience? No, that's what did you
38:53
Speaker 2: was your dad sitting upper deck or down down low
38:56
Speaker 2: or upper deck was the scary place? Yeah, that was
39:01
Speaker 2: the scary place. So anyway, and you know, the night before,
39:04
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, too many stories. Now, the night before, I'm
39:07
Speaker 2: out with a bunch of my Bay Area sports writer
39:09
Speaker 2: friends and we're having like a few beers that left
39:12
Speaker 2: the old Duels, you right, that classes yet right, so
39:15
Speaker 2: old old school hangout and we were sitting there, okay,
39:18
Speaker 2: and this will be the last story because I know
39:20
Speaker 2: you have to get to the ballpark.
39:21
Speaker 1: No, I love this.
39:22
Speaker 2: We're sitting there, you know, it's like Bruce Jenkins, Ray
39:26
Speaker 2: Ratto's all these different people and we're sitting there and
39:29
Speaker 2: we're talking about because the because the As swept the
39:32
Speaker 2: first two games of the series, right, and it wasn't
39:34
Speaker 2: even close, and we're saying, we're all talking about man,
39:37
Speaker 2: there's this this series is really boring. Man, you know,
39:41
Speaker 2: there's nothing to write about. It's kind of the same thing.
39:44
Speaker 2: You know, we all we know the a's are good,
39:46
Speaker 2: we know about larusa blah blah blah blah blah. We
39:48
Speaker 2: got we need some action, we get it. There's gotta
39:50
Speaker 2: be some excitement. You know, it's just really dull. And
39:54
Speaker 2: I went back to my room and wrote a column, Oh,
39:56
Speaker 2: the World Series is dull, you know, and that the
40:00
Speaker 2: next day earthquake.
40:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, careful for Bernie.
40:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, the World Series wasn't wasn't so dull after that.
40:07
Speaker 2: So anyway, and I got put on earthquake earthquake duty,
40:11
Speaker 2: and you didn't believe the stories. I loved the experience.
40:13
Speaker 2: I wish I never had it because it was all
40:15
Speaker 2: the damage and all the people that were affected. But
40:17
Speaker 2: they put me on earthquake duty and I was just
40:20
Speaker 2: roaming around northern California looking for stories, you know. So
40:23
Speaker 2: that's that was a very unforgettable experience. In many ways,
40:27
Speaker 2: very rarely do.
40:28
Speaker 1: Us baseball scribes have to be pulled into doing what
40:30
Speaker 1: I call real reporter shit, but when we do, uh
40:34
Speaker 1: it is, it's an unforgettable experience, right, So no, I
40:39
Speaker 1: love I love the story time, especially when it involves
40:41
Speaker 1: my beloved Bay Area. Lots of Bay Area writers coming
40:44
Speaker 1: to Saint Louis this weekend with the Giants in town
40:46
Speaker 1: for Friday, Saturday and Sunday's game. Hall of Fame weekend
40:49
Speaker 1: as well. Lots of former Cardinals in town. Plenty of
40:53
Speaker 1: tickets still available. Trust me, if you're looking to attend,
40:58
Speaker 1: here are those currently scheduled to be in attendance. Edgar
41:02
Speaker 1: Rnarea is being inducted the late Walt Jockety very well
41:05
Speaker 1: deserved for these guys. Danny Cox will be in attendance,
41:09
Speaker 1: Ricky Horton, our favorite, Willie McGee, Terry Pendleton, Ozzie Smith.
41:14
Speaker 1: Of course this is all from the nineteen eighty five
41:17
Speaker 1: an Al championship team, so they'll be in attendance as well,
41:20
Speaker 1: and then the usual Hall of famers will be there.
41:23
Speaker 1: So it's always a fun weekend at bus JDM. I
41:25
Speaker 1: think it's one of the things the Cardinals continues to
41:27
Speaker 1: do exceptionally well, is Hall of Fam Weekend.
41:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. And I missed my friend Walt Jockety,
41:31
Speaker 2: and it's sad that he can't be there, but I
41:34
Speaker 2: know his family is beyond joyful that he got in
41:38
Speaker 2: and and I know a lot of those Cardinals players
41:43
Speaker 2: that he traded for, he changed their careers. He changed
41:46
Speaker 2: their lives by giving them a chance to play in
41:49
Speaker 2: World Series and you know, win a World Championship. A
41:51
Speaker 2: lot of those guys that he traded for are going
41:54
Speaker 2: to be there this weekend. And now, you know, you know,
41:59
Speaker 2: I'm not just an old salty dog when I think
42:01
Speaker 2: about those days, I have fond memories. I was working,
42:04
Speaker 2: but I had fond memories and the idea of these
42:07
Speaker 2: players coming back to Saint Louis just to honor Walt.
42:12
Speaker 2: It's one of those things that gets to me emotionally.
42:14
Speaker 2: There's it's powerful. So I hope everyone goes down there
42:18
Speaker 2: and kind of savors what they're watching, because it's really
42:21
Speaker 2: special when these everybody comes home to thank Walt Jockety
42:26
Speaker 2: for changing their lives and their careers.
42:28
Speaker 1: You know, agreed, Agreed. I usually cant out the ceremony
42:31
Speaker 1: because it's during pregame, but I think I'm going to
42:33
Speaker 1: make an exception this time. So yeah, I hope to
42:35
Speaker 1: see you all there, Bernie, I will be back with
42:38
Speaker 1: you at the end of the Giant series. Chip Carrie
42:41
Speaker 1: and Brad Thompson joined the show on Friday for a
42:43
Speaker 1: little behind the scenes on how the Cardinals broadcast works.
42:47
Speaker 1: And as someone who has been in that booth many
42:49
Speaker 1: a time that season, you do not want to miss
42:51
Speaker 1: all their antics. For whatever you think they are on
42:54
Speaker 1: the air, they are ten times worse behind the scenes.
42:58
Speaker 1: So looking forward to having two of my friends on
42:59
Speaker 1: the show, and we'll talk a little bit about their
43:01
Speaker 1: charity men coming up in the middle of September, Bernie,
43:03
Speaker 1: you got anything cooking up.
43:05
Speaker 2: No, no, just gonna be looking forward to some good
43:07
Speaker 2: college football this weekend as always, and grinding away, grinding
43:12
Speaker 2: away almost the touch.
43:14
Speaker 1: Line, don't blink. Just one homestand and a half left
43:18
Speaker 1: here in Saint Louis.
43:19
Speaker 2: So yeah. And by the way, you know they down
43:21
Speaker 2: in Hattisburg, Mississippi, they hate your they hate your football coach.
43:24
Speaker 2: Good they do. Because he was complaining about the hotels.
43:28
Speaker 2: There's no hotels. I don't want to stay in a casino. Uh,
43:32
Speaker 2: we can't find the food. He's making it sound like, Uh,
43:35
Speaker 2: you know, Mississippi State is just like somewhere, you know,
43:37
Speaker 2: somewhere up in the mountains. You know, there's like no
43:40
Speaker 2: people there or whatever. They're all they're they're all going.
43:43
Speaker 1: Now, the innovation pipeline that is Arizona State University is
43:48
Speaker 1: a little different.
43:49
Speaker 2: So anyway, wait, I've kept you long enough. It was
43:51
Speaker 2: fun chattering about this stuff.
43:53
Speaker 1: This is a good one. You can find all of
43:55
Speaker 1: Bernie's work at STL Sports Central. He's on with KMOX.
43:58
Speaker 1: You can read my stuff at the Athletic and be
44:00
Speaker 1: back with you on Sunday. Have a great week, See
44:02
Speaker 1: you guys. H