Latest / DISGRACELAND / Bonus Episode: Tribute to Sick of it All’s Lou Koller, Plus More John Frusciante and River Phoenix

Transcript

Bonus Episode: Tribute to Sick of it All’s Lou Koller, Plus More John Frusciante and River Phoenix · DISGRACELAND

0:01
Speaker 1: Hey, discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life,
0:05
Speaker 1: just to touch to get you through.
0:07
Speaker 2: Yeah me too. This is the podcast that comes after
0:10
Speaker 2: the podcast.
0:11
Speaker 1: Welcome to Disgraceland, the after Party. Welcome to the Disgraceland
0:29
Speaker 1: bonus episode, a little thing we like to call the
0:31
Speaker 1: after Party. This is the show after the show, the
0:33
Speaker 1: party after the party, the bridge to get you from
0:35
Speaker 1: one full episode of Disgraceland to the other. The backyard,
0:38
Speaker 1: to dig into the dirt, our mission to uncover the truth,
0:42
Speaker 1: to confront the myth, to reclaim the story. On this
0:44
Speaker 1: bonus episode, we pay tribute to one of the greatest
0:46
Speaker 1: to ever do it, Sick of.
0:47
Speaker 2: It All's Lou Collar, and we dive deeper.
0:50
Speaker 1: Into the theories surrounding River Phoenix's death and Red Hat
0:53
Speaker 1: Chili Pepper's guitarist John Fruchiante's alleged involvement. Plus, we are
0:56
Speaker 1: previewing next week's episode on Smashing Pumpkins, Going to get
1:00
Speaker 1: into your emails, comments, dms, and as always a whole
1:03
Speaker 1: lot of Rosie. This is the podcast for the musically obsessed,
1:06
Speaker 1: the outsiders, the independent thinkers who know that the best
1:08
Speaker 1: history is the history that gets buried, Disgrace Sanders, where
1:11
Speaker 1: I tell the stories they didn't want told, the kind
1:13
Speaker 1: you'll end up telling to someone else.
1:15
Speaker 2: All right, disc goes, Let's get into it.
1:29
Speaker 1: On a Saturday afternoon back in nineteen eighty nine, when
1:31
Speaker 1: I was just fifteen years old, I left my house
1:35
Speaker 1: in central Massachusetts, jumped in my buddy rich Hogue's car,
1:38
Speaker 1: and headed out to Boston to go to a hardcore matinee.
1:42
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where I told my mother I was
1:44
Speaker 1: going to, but I most certainly did not tell her
1:47
Speaker 1: that I was going into the city with some seniors
1:50
Speaker 1: to see a band called Sick of It All. And
1:53
Speaker 1: that was the beauty of hardcore matinees back in the day,
1:55
Speaker 1: at least for me anyway. The city was only an
1:58
Speaker 1: hour away, max was an far drive. The shows got
2:01
Speaker 1: out around five PM, so I could leave my house
2:04
Speaker 1: in the morning and be back by dinner and my
2:06
Speaker 1: mother would be none the wiser. My mother hated the
2:10
Speaker 1: music I listened to growing up. She blamed most of
2:13
Speaker 1: my juvenile delinquency on the music that I listened to.
2:16
Speaker 1: She blamed the rest of my you know, many faults
2:19
Speaker 1: on my dad.
2:20
Speaker 2: And he was a.
2:20
Speaker 1: Musician, so Basically, she blamed everything on music. There's no
2:25
Speaker 1: way in hell she would have approved of me liking
2:28
Speaker 1: a band or going to see a band in Boston,
2:30
Speaker 1: no less a band called Sick of It All, but
2:33
Speaker 1: I did.
2:35
Speaker 2: I first heard Sick.
2:36
Speaker 1: Of It All on the nineteen eighty eight Revelation Records
2:39
Speaker 1: New York City hardcore comp The Way It Is, And
2:42
Speaker 1: right around that time, in nineteen eighty eight eighty seven
2:45
Speaker 1: actually might have been earlier, there was a seven inch
2:48
Speaker 1: that was released by Sick of it All. Got to
2:50
Speaker 1: me after the comp, even though it was probably recorded beforehand.
2:54
Speaker 1: And not long after that, in eighty nine, Sick of
2:56
Speaker 1: It All they were They were releasing their first full
2:59
Speaker 1: length album, Blow Sweat and No Tears, and they were
3:02
Speaker 1: coming to Boston to celebrate with an all ages matinee,
3:06
Speaker 1: and there was nothing that was going to keep me
3:09
Speaker 1: from seeing my new favorite band.
3:10
Speaker 2: Now.
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Speaker 1: At this time, Sick of It All were like Metallica
3:15
Speaker 1: or ac DC to me, I had only been to
3:18
Speaker 1: a few punk shows at this point. I'd never been
3:20
Speaker 1: to a show in Boston before, only local shows around
3:24
Speaker 1: my hometown. Those are the only ones I went to,
3:26
Speaker 1: and those had like local bands playing at them guys
3:28
Speaker 1: I knew basically many I didn't, but you know, it
3:31
Speaker 1: was friendlier as my point less, less foreign Going to
3:35
Speaker 1: see Sick of it All to me in nineteen eighty nine, therefore,
3:38
Speaker 1: was the same as going to see Ozzy Osbourne. I
3:41
Speaker 1: made no distinction in my mind hardcore DIY punk.
3:45
Speaker 2: None of that really meant anything to me. Yet.
3:49
Speaker 1: This is just a band whose songs I got my
3:51
Speaker 1: hands on and I loved and they made me want
3:54
Speaker 1: to break shit, and for some reason, tickets to see
3:56
Speaker 1: them only costs about five bucks. But I wasn't really
3:58
Speaker 1: concerned with that. The culture, the hardcore scene that Sick
4:02
Speaker 1: of it All was connected to it meant little to
4:04
Speaker 1: me at this point. So all this you can imagine
4:09
Speaker 1: my surprise some you know, kind of dumb metal head
4:13
Speaker 1: at this show here, you know, getting into punk and
4:16
Speaker 1: hardcore for the first time, and I show up at
4:18
Speaker 1: this club called bun Rattis with my friends on a
4:20
Speaker 1: Saturday afternoon. First of all, what the fuck even is
4:23
Speaker 1: a bun Ratty?
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Speaker 2: I don't know.
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Speaker 1: It was a tiny little club at the time, way
4:26
Speaker 1: out in Allston, which was you know, I wasn't really
4:29
Speaker 1: hanging around in Allston at the time. If I went
4:31
Speaker 1: into the city to visit my dad or whatever, I
4:33
Speaker 1: was in like Harvard Square maybe ken Moore Square. Allston's
4:36
Speaker 1: a little further out, and this club was tiny, held
4:39
Speaker 1: about one hundred and fifty people. When we got there early.
4:43
Speaker 1: There was Sick of All right there. I recognized them
4:47
Speaker 1: from their seven inch. There they were in the flesh,
4:50
Speaker 1: loading in their own equipment, lugging their own amps and instruments,
4:55
Speaker 1: and even stranger backslapping and hanging out with the kids
5:00
Speaker 1: who had already arrived, kids just like me. I was
5:04
Speaker 1: shocked at the lack of separation between the band and
5:08
Speaker 1: their fans. I'd been to concerts before. I'd been to
5:10
Speaker 1: shows the Worcester Centrum, local shows, like I said, with
5:14
Speaker 1: like you know again, local bands, not bands that I
5:17
Speaker 1: was a fan of, necessarily that I would be kind
5:20
Speaker 1: of like starstruck around. Not bands who were on album
5:24
Speaker 1: covers in seven inches or whatever that I obsessed over
5:27
Speaker 1: in my room and just stared at the at the
5:29
Speaker 1: pictures of it like I did with Sick of It All.
5:32
Speaker 1: And here they were right there at the club, carrying
5:36
Speaker 1: their own shit and talking to their fans and in
5:39
Speaker 1: the middle of it all was their singer, charismatic singer,
5:43
Speaker 1: I should say, Lou Caller, this guy straight out of
5:45
Speaker 1: like a you know, now I see, you know when
5:47
Speaker 1: I saw Goodfellas for the first time, which wasn't much
5:50
Speaker 1: longer after this point. It might even been that winter
5:55
Speaker 1: or that summer or something. I can't remember when Goodfellas
5:57
Speaker 1: come out nineteen ninety, so it was a little after this,
5:59
Speaker 1: this is eight nine. I remember distinctly thinking that de
6:03
Speaker 1: Niro reminded me of the guys in Sick of It All,
6:07
Speaker 1: and these guys were larger than life. And here was
6:09
Speaker 1: the singer. We show up at this club and he's
6:11
Speaker 1: talking to all of us kids there like we're regular people,
6:16
Speaker 1: not starstruck wannabes, which of course nobody really was but me.
6:19
Speaker 1: But the way that Lou Caller graciously interacted with Sick
6:23
Speaker 1: of it All fans in that moment, right then, right there,
6:26
Speaker 1: at that show, it changed me. It imbued me with
6:28
Speaker 1: a sense of humility and a love for the hardcore
6:32
Speaker 1: scene and its culture of unity that I carry to
6:35
Speaker 1: this day. Rock Star bullshit was not allowed. Okay, it
6:41
Speaker 1: was not only not allowed, it wasn't tolerated in any
6:44
Speaker 1: way hardcore Sick of it All.
6:46
Speaker 2: I would later find out it.
6:48
Speaker 1: Was all about this sort of US versus them mentality,
6:52
Speaker 1: and we were united against the monolith of them, Okay,
6:57
Speaker 1: And you could hear all of that in Sick of
6:59
Speaker 1: It All music in their lyrics, and I suppose that's
7:02
Speaker 1: what I was responding to when I think about it now,
7:05
Speaker 1: it's what drew me to the band. And then the
7:08
Speaker 1: cherry on top was when I finally got there to
7:11
Speaker 1: see them live. Here was the singer of that band
7:14
Speaker 1: acting off stage in a way that directly mirrored the
7:18
Speaker 1: themes that he sang about on stage. This was completely
7:22
Speaker 1: novel to me at the time. Lou Caller lived hardcore,
7:27
Speaker 1: and Lou died a couple of weeks ago on July
7:30
Speaker 1: twenty fourth, twenty twenty six, from a long battle with cancer.
7:35
Speaker 1: The hardcore scene that Lou leaves behind, the scene that
7:38
Speaker 1: he helped build, the scene he helped spread from New
7:42
Speaker 1: York to Boston to practically every corner of the world,
7:46
Speaker 1: is hurting right now. Lou was the real deal, one
7:50
Speaker 1: of the good guys. He never stopped making great music,
7:53
Speaker 1: never stopped touring, until he ran into this horrible horrible disease.
7:58
Speaker 1: Sikhodol's around for nearly fourty years. Lou was famous not
8:04
Speaker 1: just for being in the band, but famous for his
8:05
Speaker 1: support of younger bands in the scene, for helping out,
8:09
Speaker 1: for taking them on tour. And my band back in
8:13
Speaker 1: the day benefited from his and his bandmate's generosity. We're
8:16
Speaker 1: lucky enough to open for Sick of it All for
8:18
Speaker 1: a small East Coast tour in nineteen ninety seven. On
8:20
Speaker 1: that tour, I learned a lot. I learned a lot
8:23
Speaker 1: about being a touring musician. I learned a lot about
8:25
Speaker 1: how to carry myself. I learned a lot about how
8:28
Speaker 1: to maintain my cool on the road away from home.
8:31
Speaker 1: And you know, that's not unusual if you're open, and
8:35
Speaker 1: you're curious, and you're smart, and you know, when you're
8:39
Speaker 1: traveling with with bands who were at the time Sick
8:42
Speaker 1: of it All was they were giants, really, I mean
8:45
Speaker 1: they were just they were seasoned veterans and they.
8:48
Speaker 2: Couldn't have been cool.
8:48
Speaker 1: That was it. They couldn't have been cooler to us.
8:51
Speaker 1: I've toured with other bigger names actually, and I'm not
8:56
Speaker 1: going to mention them now, but complete assholes really and
9:00
Speaker 1: just just total dicks and sick of it all. Was
9:04
Speaker 1: not that at all. They were the complete opposite of that.
9:08
Speaker 1: I learned a lot too much to mention, but one
9:11
Speaker 1: thing I do remember a funny thing here that I
9:13
Speaker 1: learned from from Lou. In particular, I remember talking to
9:16
Speaker 1: him one night, I believe it was in Alabama, and
9:18
Speaker 1: we were sitting around, and you know, you do these
9:20
Speaker 1: tours and these you play these punk rock clubs and
9:23
Speaker 1: you either get like a buyout, or they give you
9:25
Speaker 1: cash to go buy dinner, or you know, they'll buy
9:28
Speaker 1: you pizza.
9:29
Speaker 2: It's always pizza, pizza, pizza, pizza.
9:32
Speaker 1: And I remember Lou explaining to me that what I
9:34
Speaker 1: was eating at that moment was not pizza, that pizza
9:38
Speaker 1: was only something that could be made in New York
9:41
Speaker 1: City or in Italy. And not only did he not
9:44
Speaker 1: eat pizza in any other locale other than New York
9:48
Speaker 1: City or in Italy, he didn't even consider what people
9:52
Speaker 1: call pizza outside of the Five Borrows or Italy pizza,
9:55
Speaker 1: which I thought was very funny and I never forgot
9:57
Speaker 1: about that. Things have changed a little since this is
10:00
Speaker 1: the nineties. But he did have a point. He did
10:02
Speaker 1: have a point. I didn't know Lou Caller well, and
10:05
Speaker 1: I don't want to give the impression that I did,
10:07
Speaker 1: But every interaction that I had with him made me
10:09
Speaker 1: feel better as a person, and it's hard to say that.
10:13
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned earlier about other musical heroes of mine
10:17
Speaker 1: that I've come in contact with, a few years ago,
10:20
Speaker 1: I opened my Instagram app to a notification from Lou
10:24
Speaker 1: and he'd made a video out of nowhere. I hadn't
10:28
Speaker 1: been in touch with Lou since that tour back in
10:33
Speaker 1: ninety seven. In the video that Lou had made, he
10:37
Speaker 1: was holding my book and telling his followers to go
10:40
Speaker 1: check it out.
10:40
Speaker 2: I was fucking blown away.
10:43
Speaker 1: Just a totally random act of generosity that for Lou
10:47
Speaker 1: Caller wasn't random at all.
10:50
Speaker 2: It was just the way he was, the way he lived.
10:53
Speaker 1: My heart goes out to loose bandmates, his brother Pete,
10:56
Speaker 1: to Melissa Aurelia, to his friends, to the Sick of
10:59
Speaker 1: it All fan for all all of you who who
11:03
Speaker 1: loved the band and who knew Lou and are hurt,
11:06
Speaker 1: and I'm sending you PMA. Sending PMA to all you guys,
11:10
Speaker 1: for those of you who have never heard Sick of
11:13
Speaker 1: It All and are curious, go check out their debut album,
11:15
Speaker 1: their debut full length. I should say, Blood, Sweat, and
11:17
Speaker 1: No Tears start there and then listen to everything.
11:20
Speaker 2: It's great. Check out the tributes that are.
11:21
Speaker 1: Going on online, everybody from you know, quicksand drop Kick
11:25
Speaker 1: Murphy's and just it's fantastic to see Lou honored this way.
11:29
Speaker 2: And you know, if you.
11:30
Speaker 1: Want to honor Lou, whip out a random act of
11:32
Speaker 1: generosity today for somebody who's not expecting it. Put a
11:36
Speaker 1: little more PMA into the world, a little more unity,
11:38
Speaker 1: all right, a little more love.
11:40
Speaker 2: Rip Lou.
11:41
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, Sick of it All performed
11:44
Speaker 1: at Coney Island a screening for the movie The Warriors,
11:48
Speaker 1: and they did so in these awesome warrior you remember
11:50
Speaker 1: the movie Warriors. The Warriors game wore those vests. Sick
11:55
Speaker 1: of it All have those vests made, and that's what
11:58
Speaker 1: they performed. And Warriors had nothing to do with hardcore
12:02
Speaker 1: or punk rock really, but they're such a part of
12:05
Speaker 1: that that movie is such a part of New York culture.
12:06
Speaker 1: It's a surprise that Sick of it All was so
12:10
Speaker 1: into it. And I loved that tribute. I thought that
12:12
Speaker 1: was fun. That was maybe ten years ago something like that,
12:14
Speaker 1: maybe a little longer, but it got me thinking about
12:18
Speaker 1: great New York movies. And this whole thing has me
12:20
Speaker 1: thinking about great New York music. And in the exclusive
12:24
Speaker 1: section of this after party, Zeth and I are going
12:27
Speaker 1: to be giving you our recommendations, our favorite obscure New
12:31
Speaker 1: York films and albums, and if we do our jobs right,
12:35
Speaker 1: you won't immediately recognize these recommendations. I want to keep
12:39
Speaker 1: it underground oriented, so it's still relative to sick of
12:41
Speaker 1: it All. Zeth is going to handle the film recommendations.
12:44
Speaker 1: I'm going to handle the music recommendations, and I promise
12:47
Speaker 1: you we won't be talking about the Ramones and taxi driver.
12:49
Speaker 2: We're going to go deeper than that.
12:51
Speaker 1: Our New York underground dirty recks are coming up in
12:54
Speaker 1: the excusive section of this after party. But you've got
12:56
Speaker 1: to be an all access member, you know the drill.
12:57
Speaker 1: Go to sign up at disgracelainpod dot com and join
13:00
Speaker 1: me and Zeth and your fellow discos in this conversation
13:04
Speaker 1: and get additional exclusive content like this plus ad free listening.
13:08
Speaker 2: All right in your feed. Right now.
13:10
Speaker 1: You may have heard our John Frusciante, Red Hot Shape
13:14
Speaker 1: Peppis John Fruchiante episode is available for you, creating quite
13:19
Speaker 1: the story on the internet, So we're going to get
13:21
Speaker 1: into that later. Coming out right after this after party
13:25
Speaker 1: is our rewind episode on another controversial subject of ours,
13:30
Speaker 1: Blondie's Debbie Harry and Ted Bundy. That'll be available for
13:34
Speaker 1: you this weekend, and then next week we're gonna come
13:38
Speaker 1: at you with our Smashing Pumpkins episode and this whole
13:43
Speaker 1: bit about Billy Corgan and the shape shifter to shape shifters. Actually,
13:51
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard this story. It's a
13:53
Speaker 1: crazy one. Nobody tells it better than Billy on The
13:56
Speaker 1: Howard Stern Show. So if you want to do a
13:58
Speaker 1: little pregame action, you can check that out. But we're
14:01
Speaker 1: coming at you with our take on Smashing Pumpkins, and look,
14:05
Speaker 1: I love Smashing Pumpkins, and I like Billy Billy Corgan
14:08
Speaker 1: as a guy. I know people can't stand him, namely
14:11
Speaker 1: other musicians, and he takes a lot of heat for
14:14
Speaker 1: a lot of different reasons. When I recorded this episode,
14:17
Speaker 1: I was thinking, God, if he ever hears this, he's
14:18
Speaker 1: gonna fucking hate me.
14:19
Speaker 2: But I don't like.
14:21
Speaker 1: I just want to be on record before you hear
14:22
Speaker 1: the episode, before you listen to it. I really really
14:25
Speaker 1: love Smashing Pumpkins. I've seen them live. I saw them
14:28
Speaker 1: with the Chili Peppers. Actually, I saw them open up
14:31
Speaker 1: for the Chili Peppers. I've mentioned this before they went
14:33
Speaker 1: on second Chili Peppers headline. Pearl Jam went on first
14:37
Speaker 1: the Rocky Point Amusement Park in the roller rink there
14:40
Speaker 1: in Rhode Island. I've seen them other times as well,
14:43
Speaker 1: And like I said, I like, I'm not sure Billy's
14:47
Speaker 1: gonna like me after he hears this, if he hears it,
14:50
Speaker 1: all right, So that's coming up on Tuesday. Now, when
14:53
Speaker 1: you're listening to this Disgraceland Smashing Pumpkins episode, just the
14:57
Speaker 1: question is, just do you believe Billy? Do you believe
15:00
Speaker 1: leave this shapeshifter story? Billy Corgan strikes me as a
15:05
Speaker 1: lot of things. He does not strike me as a
15:07
Speaker 1: bullshit artist. In this story. It sounds like the height
15:11
Speaker 1: of bullshit, and I kind of want to I want
15:15
Speaker 1: to litigate further.
15:15
Speaker 2: Maybe we can do that in the after party next.
15:17
Speaker 1: Week six one seven, nine oh six, six sixty three eight.
15:19
Speaker 1: I want to know what you guys think call, leave
15:22
Speaker 1: a voicemail, send me a text, let me know. Can
15:25
Speaker 1: also as always email me Disgrace Lampod at gmail dot com,
15:29
Speaker 1: hit us on the socials at Disgrace lampod dot com.
15:31
Speaker 1: You might hear your answers on next week's after party
15:34
Speaker 1: speaking to socials. We're going to be back after this
15:37
Speaker 1: with a bunch of your DMS and comments, also going
15:41
Speaker 1: to do some voicemails and text We're going to dive
15:43
Speaker 1: deeper into this Johnfrey Chante River Phoenix thing.
15:46
Speaker 2: Talked in a bit. All right, guys, we are back.
16:05
Speaker 2: A lot of you have chimed in, namely.
16:08
Speaker 1: On Instagram, on this River Phoenix John free Chante's story.
16:13
Speaker 1: I want to get into some of this. I want
16:14
Speaker 1: to get into your messages, and I want to get
16:18
Speaker 1: into some of the criticism. The nature of the criticism
16:20
Speaker 1: around this story not necessarily the story we're telling, but
16:23
Speaker 1: the story we're talking about. That the story we talk
16:27
Speaker 1: about on Instagram. That makes sense anyways. This one comes
16:30
Speaker 1: from Christian Hernandez, and Christian says, hey, fantastic episode. I
16:36
Speaker 1: never looked into this theory too deeply, maybe because I
16:39
Speaker 1: was scared to be heartbroken. Then an artist who meant
16:42
Speaker 1: so much to me and made an impact on my
16:44
Speaker 1: life would have been responsible for River Phoenix's death. Nice
16:47
Speaker 1: to know that I can, at the very least listen
16:49
Speaker 1: to John free Chante's solo records with ease. Great work
16:53
Speaker 1: to you in the Disgraced team, Christian. I appreciate that
16:57
Speaker 1: very much, namely because, hey, you listen to the episode.
17:01
Speaker 1: You're not just commenting on an Instagram post that lots
17:05
Speaker 1: of people are commenting on right now.
17:07
Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, there's a.
17:08
Speaker 1: Lot of praise for the episode in these comments, but
17:12
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stupid, stupid. I don't even want
17:16
Speaker 1: to call it criticism, and I'm not going to really
17:19
Speaker 1: address criticism.
17:22
Speaker 2: I think it's dumb.
17:23
Speaker 1: I think criticism comes with the whole game and you
17:26
Speaker 1: got to take it, and I kind of typically feel
17:31
Speaker 1: like you just don't address it. I feel like for
17:33
Speaker 1: every fifty people who are into what you're doing, there's
17:36
Speaker 1: one who fucking hates it. And you know, we're talking
17:40
Speaker 1: about millions of downloads, et cetera. That adds up pretty quick.
17:44
Speaker 1: So anyhow, there's two types of commenters I found on Instagram. Okay,
17:52
Speaker 1: I don't really fuck with X. I don't really mess
17:54
Speaker 1: with TikTok or Facebook that much anymore. And it's mainly
17:58
Speaker 1: just Instagram. It's the Patreon where I interact with people,
18:03
Speaker 1: and on Instagram you get exposed the way the algorithm works.
18:08
Speaker 1: You get exposed now to a bunch of people who
18:10
Speaker 1: don't follow you. It's mainly the exposure to non followers.
18:12
Speaker 1: So people have come in, they've seen this story. They'll
18:15
Speaker 1: read like half of what we've posted and think that
18:17
Speaker 1: we're literally saying that we are alleging that John Fruchiante
18:22
Speaker 1: had something to do with River Phoenix's death, And of
18:25
Speaker 1: course we are not saying that we are litigating this theory, okay.
18:32
Speaker 1: And the reason that we told this story is because
18:36
Speaker 1: there's a lot to the theory that the Internet theorists
18:40
Speaker 1: as we're calling them, I don't want to call them
18:42
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists, because there's actually some pretty good discourse on
18:48
Speaker 1: this online. There's a lot of bullshit, mainly bullshit, but
18:50
Speaker 1: there is some good discourse.
18:52
Speaker 2: The theorists have do have some good points.
18:54
Speaker 1: That John Fruchiante was there and he was absolutely involved
18:57
Speaker 1: that night that River Phoenix died, does that make him
19:01
Speaker 1: a killer? Well, that's what we try to get into
19:03
Speaker 1: in this episode. But you would think from some of
19:06
Speaker 1: the comments that we're kind of saying that we're being
19:10
Speaker 1: accusatory here, that we are making the case that the
19:12
Speaker 1: internet is making the monolith of the Internet, and we're
19:15
Speaker 1: not clearly clearly. So that's part of it, and that's
19:18
Speaker 1: really fucking annoying. But it's fine, whatever, you get to
19:21
Speaker 1: deal with it. The other thing that I cannot I
19:24
Speaker 1: just can't stand. And I'm so grateful for the listeners
19:28
Speaker 1: who chime in and jump in over the top rope
19:32
Speaker 1: and get into the comments here. It's that these fly
19:37
Speaker 1: by night sort of social media I don't know if
19:41
Speaker 1: they're real, but they're just immediately dismissive of any exploration
19:47
Speaker 1: of the topic, like this is just done and in
19:51
Speaker 1: their mind.
19:52
Speaker 2: In four words in a forward.
19:54
Speaker 1: Comment, they can put a nail in the coffin of
19:58
Speaker 1: this story. The lack of cure curiosity is offensive to
20:01
Speaker 1: me as.
20:02
Speaker 2: A human being.
20:03
Speaker 1: Okay, these stories are fascinating, the ins and outs and
20:07
Speaker 1: the drama. They are absolutely compelling and riveting, and there's
20:12
Speaker 1: a reason why a shit ton of people have listened
20:15
Speaker 1: to this episode yesterday and frankly commented on and shared
20:19
Speaker 1: the post. And it's that reason. These stories are endlessly entertaining,
20:24
Speaker 1: and they are they are hard to they're oftentimes unbelievable.
20:30
Speaker 1: So for someone to come along and just be like, well.
20:31
Speaker 2: Fuck you, this is a figured out. We knew this
20:34
Speaker 2: twenty years ago, man, you know what I mean.
20:36
Speaker 1: It's like, take your fucking lack of curiosity and fuck off.
20:42
Speaker 1: Unfollow us, don't listen to us, I don't care. Fuck off. Okay,
20:47
Speaker 1: So that's sort of my take on the takes. I
20:52
Speaker 1: want to get into some emails here from you guys
20:54
Speaker 1: still on this subject. Disgraceingpod at gmail dot com. You
20:58
Speaker 1: want to email us, all right, This one comes from
21:02
Speaker 1: way out West Jake.
21:03
Speaker 2: It's your girl from the three three.
21:05
Speaker 1: It's been a minute since I wrote you, but today's
21:07
Speaker 1: episode absolutely warrants it. I think the last time I
21:10
Speaker 1: reached out was the Sharon Stone episode of Hollywood Land. Anyway,
21:13
Speaker 1: I felt like, once again, you read my diary from
21:15
Speaker 1: the nineties. While researching this episode. In nineteen ninety three,
21:19
Speaker 1: I was working at the infamous Tower Records on Sunset
21:21
Speaker 1: that was literally across the street from the Viper Room.
21:24
Speaker 1: My ex and I went there a few times, and
21:25
Speaker 1: I vividly remember Harry Dean Stanton performing with a band
21:28
Speaker 1: that included Johnny Depp and members of P and the
21:30
Speaker 1: vibe was always very dark and I didn't care for
21:33
Speaker 1: it much. Working at Tower, you saw tons of celebrities
21:36
Speaker 1: every day. John Fruciane, Johnny Depp, River, Phoenix and everyone
21:39
Speaker 1: else you mentioned were there all the time. I remember
21:42
Speaker 1: a few conversations with Johnny Johnny Depp, and he was
21:44
Speaker 1: always a sweetheart. One afternoon, when I was working, this
21:47
Speaker 1: extremely disheveled guy comes running in. You look like death
21:50
Speaker 1: and was obviously high as a kite, and he started
21:52
Speaker 1: ripping CDs out of the bins.
21:54
Speaker 2: We all watched horrified.
21:56
Speaker 1: I asked one of the other clerks who it was,
21:58
Speaker 1: and he said, John Frusciante. He used to be in
22:00
Speaker 1: the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It was incredibly sad, and
22:02
Speaker 1: I didn't think he'd be around much longer. Fortunately, as
22:05
Speaker 1: you discussed today, that wasn't the case, Glad. He got
22:07
Speaker 1: a shit together eventually, but I never forgot the sight
22:09
Speaker 1: of him. Finally, I worked at the store the day
22:12
Speaker 1: after River died, and I remember because it was Halloween,
22:15
Speaker 1: but nobody felt very festive.
22:16
Speaker 2: It was heartbreaking.
22:17
Speaker 1: Thanks for jogging my memory every few months with a
22:19
Speaker 1: very interesting story.
22:20
Speaker 2: Always a pleasure to listen to your show, Rock and
22:22
Speaker 2: Roll Up.
22:23
Speaker 1: I love when we get to hear from people who
22:25
Speaker 1: were there on the scene in some way, shape or form.
22:28
Speaker 1: I have heard from other folks friends of John free
22:32
Speaker 1: Chante's and River Phoenix's as well to people in particular
22:36
Speaker 1: who requested that I keep their names and their messages private.
22:41
Speaker 1: And I got to say, this episode has stirred up
22:44
Speaker 1: a lot of emotion in people want to go to
22:47
Speaker 1: another listener. Here another email, this one from Joe Hey,
22:50
Speaker 1: so glad you covered this awesome episode. Man. John free
22:52
Speaker 1: Chante is my favorite musician ever, and his solo music
22:56
Speaker 1: has touched me throughout the years in ways that nothing
22:57
Speaker 1: else has. It's crazy. I thought I knew everything about
22:59
Speaker 1: the Chili Peppers for years. I read all the books,
23:01
Speaker 1: all the magazines and TV interviews, and this rumor eluded
23:04
Speaker 1: me until about probably ten years ago. I knew the
23:07
Speaker 1: story of Rivers' death in the viper room and John
23:10
Speaker 1: throwing up on Gibbee and all that, but I never
23:12
Speaker 1: heard anyone blame John fruchant Day for Rivers's death before Again,
23:18
Speaker 1: this is alleged, I'm adding that it's not part of
23:22
Speaker 1: the email. I caught this allegation on Reddit after something
23:25
Speaker 1: peaking my curiosity and at some point and I finally
23:28
Speaker 1: really looked into it. Anyway, man, I really enjoyed this episode.
23:31
Speaker 1: Been listening since day one.
23:33
Speaker 2: Last thing.
23:34
Speaker 1: Since you're into recommendations, I'm sure you've already heard them,
23:36
Speaker 1: but are you into the Black Lips. They're so good
23:38
Speaker 1: and original and I've been listening to the shit out
23:41
Speaker 1: of them lately. Also got to recommend Flea's autobiography, covers
23:45
Speaker 1: his life from birth to the start of the band.
23:47
Speaker 1: Hope you're having a great summer with you and the family.
23:48
Speaker 2: Appreciate you.
23:49
Speaker 1: Joe Kenbock, Joe, thank you for the message. I appreciate you.
23:54
Speaker 1: Happy you're digging the Frusiane story.
23:56
Speaker 2: And I have heard of The Black Lips.
23:59
Speaker 1: I've seen them live before so on an incredible show
24:01
Speaker 1: downstairs at the Middle East probably in like two thousand
24:05
Speaker 1: and eight ish. It's a long time ago, and they
24:07
Speaker 1: were amazing. They were incredible, great band. And I have
24:13
Speaker 1: not read I've read some of Flee's autobiography Not a Lot.
24:17
Speaker 1: I picked it up for the research for the Freeciante episode.
24:21
Speaker 1: I didn't end up using it because he doesn't really
24:23
Speaker 1: get into John or River that much. But I am
24:26
Speaker 1: excited to read it. I got a good copy of it.
24:29
Speaker 1: I see the Flea turned up at the Newport Fox Festival.
24:32
Speaker 1: That's exciting. These the clips of Flea's jazz band playing
24:35
Speaker 1: out there are pretty amazing.
24:37
Speaker 2: They are going around right now. Looks like he's on tour.
24:39
Speaker 2: It's awesome. All right.
24:41
Speaker 1: Speaking of being on tour, we're gonna take a break
24:43
Speaker 1: from this tour right here, and we'll be back in
24:45
Speaker 1: a minute. We're gonna do a couple of your calls
24:46
Speaker 1: and voicemails. Don't go anywhere, all right, guys, welcome back.
25:04
Speaker 1: Six one seven nine oh six six six three eight.
25:06
Speaker 1: You want to get at me with any topic at all.
25:08
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts on John Fruchiante. I
25:10
Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts on River Phoenix. I want
25:12
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts coming up next week on Smashing
25:14
Speaker 1: Pumpkins and Billy Corgan shape Shifter. This voicemail comes from
25:16
Speaker 1: the five to oh three Hime.
25:18
Speaker 3: Riting this, Crystal, and I'm calling from the five oh three.
25:21
Speaker 3: I absolutely love your podcast, both of them, and I
25:27
Speaker 3: was listening to the after show about albums that takes
25:30
Speaker 3: our lives and whole lived through. This came out when
25:34
Speaker 3: I was in the seventh grade and I was a
25:36
Speaker 3: little outcast kid in a town where I didn't fit in,
25:40
Speaker 3: and the first time I heard it, I was like,
25:42
Speaker 3: this is somebody that gets me, and to this day
25:46
Speaker 3: like you can't make me dislike Courtney Love and I
25:49
Speaker 3: love that she was getting her moment in the sun
25:53
Speaker 3: and I just had to call in. This my first
25:55
Speaker 3: time ever calling or ever sharing an opinion on anything
25:58
Speaker 3: in the shows, but I love what you're doing.
26:00
Speaker 4: Marilyn Monroe episodes. The best Marilyn Monroe movie, for anyone
26:06
Speaker 4: that knows, is Gentleman for Fort Blaws. It's her ultimate performance.
26:11
Speaker 4: But Niagara is also really great, and.
26:14
Speaker 5: She didn't get the chance to be what she should
26:18
Speaker 5: have been in her friendal movie with Clurk Gable. She've
26:22
Speaker 5: attended her whole childhood that Curt Gable was her father,
26:25
Speaker 5: so she was living out this fantasy in real life.
26:30
Speaker 5: And because of Arthur Miller and all of those pressures,
26:35
Speaker 5: she sort of crumbled.
26:36
Speaker 4: And then ultimately died.
26:38
Speaker 5: But yeah, so thank you for all you do.
26:41
Speaker 4: And I feel like you need.
26:42
Speaker 5: To give more love to Courtney Love.
26:44
Speaker 3: So thanks guys.
26:45
Speaker 1: By Hey, Crystal really appreciate the voicemail. A lot to
26:49
Speaker 1: get into here, Courtney Love. I'm supposed to be researching
26:53
Speaker 1: Courtney Love right now and I have delayed. And good
26:56
Speaker 1: news is I'm doing another story that I've been delaying
26:58
Speaker 1: for years. That's the Bobby Fuller story. But I delayed
27:01
Speaker 1: the Courtney Love story because we're I want this documentary
27:05
Speaker 1: to come out. There's a movie that's been made about her,
27:07
Speaker 1: and I think it's having trouble finding distribution or something.
27:10
Speaker 2: I'm not exactly sure.
27:11
Speaker 1: It's just not out and it should be and I
27:15
Speaker 1: want to use it as part of the research.
27:17
Speaker 2: So waiting on that.
27:19
Speaker 1: Also, there was some news that broke yesterday in the
27:21
Speaker 1: New York Post about Kurt's death and Courtney's attorneys and
27:29
Speaker 1: it's the I mean, they're trying to it's thinly veiled,
27:33
Speaker 1: alleging that Courtney has something to hide regarding his death,
27:37
Speaker 1: and that's I don't believe that at all. And there
27:39
Speaker 1: is a huge industry of folks who believe that Courtney
27:42
Speaker 1: Love had something to do with Kurt Cobain, and I'm
27:45
Speaker 1: kind of tired of it because I've really looked into this.
27:48
Speaker 1: I have looked into the so called evidence they have,
27:53
Speaker 1: and it's complete bullshit in my mind, and I kind
27:57
Speaker 1: of want to litigate it, including all the so called
28:00
Speaker 1: new information that has come out in the last twelve months,
28:02
Speaker 1: which we have. We have that entire dossier of quote
28:05
Speaker 1: unquote research, and I kind of want to do a
28:08
Speaker 1: Courtney Love episode that just finally, you know, does her
28:11
Speaker 1: biography and celebrates her, but also puts a nail in
28:16
Speaker 1: the coffin of these rumors, unlike kind of what I'm
28:19
Speaker 1: doing with Bobby Fuller, which is really kind of like, hey,
28:21
Speaker 1: you know what, the way they said he died, that
28:22
Speaker 1: ain't the way he died actually.
28:24
Speaker 2: But anyways, Courtney Love is on the brain.
28:26
Speaker 1: You're gonna get more Courtney Love content soon. I'm not
28:29
Speaker 1: sure in what the exact take will be on Meril Monroe.
28:34
Speaker 1: We have those two episodes that have currently been in
28:38
Speaker 1: the Hollywoodland archive recently, and yeah, you're right, gentlemen, preferred blondes.
28:44
Speaker 1: I don't love it as much as I love Misfits,
28:46
Speaker 1: because Misfits is just so fucking weird. The Clark Gable
28:49
Speaker 1: movie that she did, and it reminds me more of
28:52
Speaker 1: kind of a seventies movie, but I like the whole
28:54
Speaker 1: big set piece thing and then all the dance numbers
28:57
Speaker 1: and everything, and gentlemen prefer wait wait wait no, no, no no,
29:00
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of how to marry a millionaire.
29:03
Speaker 2: Gentlemen preferred blondes.
29:04
Speaker 1: Yes, fantastic, that's the the Jack Lemon Tony Curtis one.
29:10
Speaker 1: Great in Niagara. I need to watch it again. She's
29:13
Speaker 1: just so incredibly beautiful in Niagara. It's it's distracting, It's
29:19
Speaker 1: truly distracting.
29:21
Speaker 2: It's another level. Thanks for the call. Appreciate you. Appreciate you.
29:25
Speaker 1: Crystal six one seven nine six six sixty three. You
29:28
Speaker 1: guys want to get at us about anything, Always talking
29:32
Speaker 1: covers that are better than originals six to one Oho
29:34
Speaker 1: New Text rock and ROLLA covers that are better than
29:36
Speaker 1: the original. I never knew Don't Do It Don't Break
29:39
Speaker 1: My Heart was a Marvin Gay cover, so I checked
29:41
Speaker 1: it out. Great tune and great unlock, and you know,
29:44
Speaker 1: the band's version is better swampy, rocky and awesome rock
29:48
Speaker 1: and rolla from your pal Jonathan in the six to one.
29:50
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know what I it's that that cover?
29:55
Speaker 2: That cover is is?
29:58
Speaker 1: I clearly knew that was a Marvin Gay song the
30:02
Speaker 1: first time I watched The Last Waltz. I went about
30:05
Speaker 1: ten years of watching The Last Waltz without associating that
30:08
Speaker 1: song with Marvin Gay for some reason.
30:11
Speaker 2: And I think it's because the band just fully own it. Yeah,
30:15
Speaker 2: I agree with you.
30:16
Speaker 1: It is better. It is better than the Marvin Gay version.
30:19
Speaker 1: So there I said it.
30:21
Speaker 2: Don't be mad six point seven nine oh six sixty
30:23
Speaker 2: six three eight. If you are, you can get in
30:25
Speaker 2: touch with me and let me know.
30:26
Speaker 1: Big shout out to Bill Strobel Patreon. Over in the
30:32
Speaker 1: Patreon chap Bill is a is an All Access member.
30:35
Speaker 1: Bill is as an artist. He's a visual artist and
30:40
Speaker 1: he did this this mural of Lebron James in Philly
30:46
Speaker 1: or in and around Philly. It's really cool. Actually it's great,
30:49
Speaker 1: and I'm not a Lebron James fan at all. But
30:52
Speaker 1: of course Lebron signed with the six Ers. So Bill
30:54
Speaker 1: gets interviewed by Sports Illustrated this is like this week
30:58
Speaker 1: and somehow, I think it's his daughter or his wife
31:04
Speaker 1: or his girlfriend or something I can't get.
31:06
Speaker 2: I'm trying to find the article right now.
31:08
Speaker 1: They call his house to talk to him, to interview
31:10
Speaker 1: him about this Lebron James Bureau, and the person who
31:16
Speaker 1: answers the phone is like, I got to I don't
31:18
Speaker 1: know if I can get him. He's he's listening to
31:19
Speaker 1: his favorite podcast, Disgraceland.
31:21
Speaker 2: And they print that in.
31:22
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated, which is just fucking awesome. So Bill of
31:26
Speaker 1: course drops it in the in the Patreon chat, which
31:29
Speaker 1: I thought was very cool. Thank you, Bill, and congrats
31:32
Speaker 1: to you on your awesome work and on getting Lebron
31:36
Speaker 1: and Jalen Brown.
31:37
Speaker 2: You can have both of them.
31:38
Speaker 1: I'd rather lose than have those guys on my team.
31:41
Speaker 2: For real, for real, good luck.
31:45
Speaker 1: It took about forty seconds for me to go from
31:47
Speaker 1: being gracious and complimentary to just being a Boston prick.
31:51
Speaker 1: That's just it's you know, you know, it's just what
31:54
Speaker 1: it's about being from New England.
31:55
Speaker 2: But here's the deal. People don't understand this.
31:58
Speaker 1: If people in New England give other people shit, it
32:01
Speaker 1: means we like you.
32:02
Speaker 2: That's what that means. People take it too seriously six one.
32:06
Speaker 1: Seven nine oh six six sixty three eight voicemail text
32:08
Speaker 1: you want to get at me about anything, Disgrace mpod
32:11
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com speaking to Patreon. If you're in
32:15
Speaker 1: the Patreon that means you're an All Access member. And
32:18
Speaker 1: if you're an All Access member, you're going to get
32:20
Speaker 1: access to this conversation that Zeth and I are about
32:24
Speaker 1: to have right now. Disgrace mpod dot com to sign up.
32:27
Speaker 1: We're talking great New York Obscure Underground recommendations, music and
32:33
Speaker 1: film recommendations coming up right now. All right, we're back.
32:50
Speaker 1: I forgot to pimp out. This film should be played
32:52
Speaker 1: loud in the last block there. This is the E block.
32:54
Speaker 1: I usually do it in the D block earlier. Not
32:56
Speaker 1: that you care about that, but a little inside baseball,
32:58
Speaker 1: this film should be played loud. Our All Access members
33:02
Speaker 1: podcasts that we do once a month where we explore
33:06
Speaker 1: our favorite music from one of our favorite films. The
33:09
Speaker 1: one we got rocking for you right now is on
33:11
Speaker 1: Do the Right Thing. You don't want to miss this.
33:12
Speaker 1: Go to disgrace lampod dot com to sign up and
33:15
Speaker 1: unlock that content. Anyhow, we're about to get out of here.
33:18
Speaker 1: We just published our two hundred and eighty second episode.
33:22
Speaker 1: We're almost at three hundred episodes. Three hundred. That doesn't
33:28
Speaker 1: even include Hollywood Land. That's just Disgraceland. That's just music subjects.
33:34
Speaker 1: Lots of stories in the archive on basically any any
33:39
Speaker 1: major musician you can think of. We have covered them
33:43
Speaker 1: in the true crimes that they have either committed or
33:45
Speaker 1: been involved with, like the John Frey chante one this
33:49
Speaker 1: week that we get into. So if you have questions about,
33:53
Speaker 1: say your favorite artist, and you don't know where to
33:55
Speaker 1: find them, and you're wondering if we have an episode
33:57
Speaker 1: on them, to hit us up and we'll let you know.
34:00
Speaker 1: So one seven nine oh six six six three eight
34:01
Speaker 1: at Disgrace Lampod on the socials, Disgrace Lampod at gmail
34:05
Speaker 1: dot com. You don't have to call us, you can
34:07
Speaker 1: send us a text. That works too, all right, I
34:09
Speaker 1: get it out of here. So let's recap number one
34:11
Speaker 1: this week, our new episode on Red Hot Shape Peppers,
34:14
Speaker 1: John Freiante and River Phoenix that's available for you right
34:16
Speaker 1: now in the rewind slot. This weekend, our classic episode
34:19
Speaker 1: on Blondie Debbie Harry and Ted Bundy. Don't miss that.
34:22
Speaker 1: Number three. Next week coming up our next new episode
34:25
Speaker 1: on the Smashing Pumpkins Billy Corgan in his shape Shifter.
34:29
Speaker 1: Number four, that's gonna give you those Hollywood and crime
34:31
Speaker 1: vibes in Hollywood Lands. To make sure you are subscribed
34:34
Speaker 1: to the Hollywood Land Feed and Apple podcasts, the Iart
34:37
Speaker 1: radio app wherever you get your podcast. Number five. This
34:39
Speaker 1: film should be played loud. Our video podcast. New episode
34:43
Speaker 1: on Do the Right Thing is available for you right now.
34:45
Speaker 1: Next episode on Liquorice Pizza that's coming up at the
34:47
Speaker 1: end of the month. Go to Disgrace lampod dot com
34:49
Speaker 1: to sign up to become an all access member. Unlock
34:51
Speaker 1: exclusive content just like this, along with add forre you
34:54
Speaker 1: listening six one seven nine oh six six six three
34:56
Speaker 1: eight hit us up. Your voice keeps us to get
34:58
Speaker 1: into the dark corners of music history. So keep calling,
35:01
Speaker 1: texting with your answers to this week's question of the week,
35:03
Speaker 1: or with whatever else you want to talk about.
35:05
Speaker 2: Number seven.
35:05
Speaker 1: Do not forget this goes. This is not just content.
35:08
Speaker 1: It's a community, a community of the obsessed, and no
35:11
Speaker 1: one cares about music, books, records in the crime and
35:13
Speaker 1: grime that ties them all together like you do. And
35:15
Speaker 1: well that's a disgrace, all right. Back on October thirtieth,
35:18
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, River Phoenix's life was cut short outside
35:22
Speaker 1: of the viper room, and this was what America was
35:24
Speaker 1: listening to on that day. According to the Billboard Charts,
35:28
Speaker 1: number one dream lover Mariah Carey last week one peak
35:33
Speaker 1: position one weeks on charts thirteen, number two, I do
35:38
Speaker 1: anything for love, but I won't do that Meet four
35:42
Speaker 1: last week three peak position two mix on chart seven.
35:46
Speaker 2: Number four, number three all that she.
35:48
Speaker 1: Wants last base of base last week for peach position
35:53
Speaker 1: number weeks on chart number four.
35:56
Speaker 2: Let's just kick it as escape position last position two
36:00
Speaker 2: position sounds at that sound true? Number six number five
36:05
Speaker 2: of size true.
36:06
Speaker 1: The last secon she said, sat
36:21
Speaker 2: Quit talking and start mixing.