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Sir Ron Young: Former High Court Judge and Parole Board Chair on concern complex court cases are clogging up the justice system · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: More issues with our courts. Our report from the Chief
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Justice Halenween Kellman says trials are becoming longer, more complex,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and it's clocking up the system. There's some incredible figures
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: in there, like a manslaughter of murder makeups over seventy
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  Speaker 1: percent of all our trials. The average trial now takes
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: seventeen days. So Ron Young is the former High Court
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  Speaker 1: judge and former chair of the New Zealand Parole Board
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  Speaker 1: and joins you this wanting good morning to.
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  Speaker 2: You, sir, Good morning Andrew.
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  Speaker 1: So this is a creaking system, isn't it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's certainly under stress and you can see that
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  Speaker 2: by the huge increase of how long trials are taking,
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  Speaker 2: particularly in the High Court.
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  Speaker 1: So what does that mean for our entire justice system.
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  Speaker 1: It's all well will and good to get tough on crime,
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  Speaker 1: but there's no point getting tough on crime if we
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  Speaker 1: can't process them.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean that's true, of course. I mean
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  Speaker 2: being tough on crime is important. But the important thing,
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  Speaker 2: of course is to try and focus on reoffending and
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  Speaker 2: try and reduce the crime rate and reduce the number
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  Speaker 2: of victims. So simply in people in prison longer and
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: longer more and more often. Actually isn't solving the crime problem,
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  Speaker 2: it's making it worse.
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  Speaker 1: The UK is facing a similar issue, and there they've
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  Speaker 1: actually suggested shorter sentences. Is that a good idea or
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  Speaker 1: not they have?
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a good idea because it's combined with
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  Speaker 2: rehabilitation in the community, and we know that's the most
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  Speaker 2: successful thing, and we know that that's the way to
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  Speaker 2: reduce the number of victims.
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  Speaker 1: Some of those stay shorter sentences lead to greater acidivism,
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  Speaker 1: Well they don't.
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  Speaker 2: The evidence is quite the contrary. The longer you put
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  Speaker 2: people in prison, particularly at the beginning of their life,
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  Speaker 2: the more likely it is they're going to be joining
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  Speaker 2: gangs for their protection. In prison, the more likely they're
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  Speaker 2: going to get information about how to commit further crimes.
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  Speaker 2: So it definitely makes it worse.
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  Speaker 1: So surely sending criminals out into the streets is increasing
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  Speaker 1: crime as well when they haven't been rehabilitated in the
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  Speaker 1: prison system.
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  Speaker 2: Sure well, that's the point that they're not proposing. In
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  Speaker 2: the UK. Have seeing people just into the ad say
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  Speaker 2: good luck, you know, here's your two hundred and seventy
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  Speaker 2: five or three hundred and seventy five dollars. What they're
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  Speaker 2: doing is focusing on rehabilitation so that they are controlled,
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  Speaker 2: they're under very strict situations within the community, but also
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  Speaker 2: getting rehabilitation because in the end, that's the most important
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  Speaker 2: thing for the community.
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  Speaker 1: Should I be shot or should we all be shot?
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  Speaker 1: That murder attempted murder a man sort a category four
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  Speaker 1: offenses now make up seventy six percent of all new
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  Speaker 1: cases in the High Court back in twenty twenty one.
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  Speaker 1: Back in twenty twenty one, it was fifty six percent.
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  Speaker 2: YEP. It is a horrifying statistic and it's also in
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  Speaker 2: terms of the stress on courts. It's horrifying that it's
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  Speaker 2: taking seventeen plus days on average. I can recall when
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  Speaker 2: I was a young lawyer back in the nineteen seventies
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  Speaker 2: and eighties, murder trials often took three four five days.
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  Speaker 1: So what's the answer? More money, More, more resources are one?
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  Speaker 2: Well, the only way it's all it's more resources. But
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  Speaker 2: it's not just judges and lawyers, although that's part of it.
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  Speaker 2: It's also courtrooms. It's a sophisticated equipment that's required. There's
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  Speaker 2: a whole series of things that are required to help
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  Speaker 2: a court system run if think effectively and efficiently.
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  Speaker 1: So Ron Young, I thank you so much for a
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  Speaker 1: good time.
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• 3:20
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• 3:24
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