Latest / Kids Ministry Calling with Jana Magruder / 68. Dreaming of a Stronger Partnership: How Senior Pastors and Kids Ministers Can Lead Together with Jay Hardwick & Melissa Whitworth

Transcript

68. Dreaming of a Stronger Partnership: How Senior Pastors and Kids Ministers Can Lead Together with Jay Hardwick & Melissa Whitworth · Kids Ministry Calling with Jana Magruder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Are you dedicated to working with kids and families in the local church?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, clearly that's more than a career, that's a calling.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Jayna Magruder and this is Kids Ministry Calling.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: When kids' ministry and senior leadership are aligned, something powerful happens.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Vision becomes clearer, culture becomes stronger, and kids don't just attend church, they begin to understand that they truly belong.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: In today's episode, we're talking about the importance of building a healthy, collaborative relationship between senior pastors and children's ministers.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Because the truth is, Thriving Kids Ministry doesn't just happen in isolation.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: It grows out of a shared vision, mutual trust, and intentional partnership.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna explore what it looks like to create a culture where kids are seen, valued, and discipled, and how senior pastors can play a meaningful role in shaping that environment.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: You'll hear practical insights, real experiences, and encouragement to help you move towards stronger alignment in your own church.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe more than anything, this episode is an invitation to dream a little.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: To imagine what your ministry could look like if you and your senior pastor were fully unified around the mission of reaching the next generation.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: If you've ever longed for that kind of partnership, this conversation is for you.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: So enjoy this special church highlight episode featuring leaders from my church, Forest Hills, here in Nashville.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna talk to Pastor Jay Hardwick and the Minister to Children, Melissa Whitworth.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Here we go.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hello, everybody.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Today is a really special day for me.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of a big deal.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: I am joined by uh two of my favorite people.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: My senior pastor Jay Hardwick is here in the studio.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And the minister to children at my church, uh, Melissa Whitworth is also here.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Also really super big fan of both of them.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they are here.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've asked them if they would come join me.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um our church is just down the road.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so that's super convenient.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: But uh they are such a good example of something that I want to talk about today.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Our topic is um having a great relationship with your senior pastor.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we as kids ministers uh and and directors and leaders, um, this is very important to us uh because we feel so passionate about what we do.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: And we want our senior pastors to also feel that passion.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And um I want to talk about how these two do a really good job of that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to talk about how um things that have worked for them, things that maybe they're working on.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and also I've told them, you know, reference other uh uh roles that they've had in the past and and stories that they might have to tell around that.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: So we're just gonna have a good conversation.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'll interject with a couple of my own thoughts and experiences from ministry.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, let's get going.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, Pastor Jay, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Been uh been senior pastor um at Forest Hills here in Nashville for a little over five years.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're from South Carolina, so the Lord called us um actually during COVID, really kind of just worked in our lives and then um sort of wildly in a way that only God can connected us with Forest Hills, and we've been here for a little over five years, uh, really kind of leading out in a in a revitalization effort at our church.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um and it's been exciting to see how the Lord has moved and worked.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: We love being in this part of the of the world.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um God is just moving in this community, and uh, we're glad to be a part of it, glad for what God is doing at Forest Hills, and glad for how we get to participate in in the larger story of what God is doing through what you're involved with and things like this.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad to be here and uh glad to be a part of this really important conversation.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: So glad you're here.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: So glad that you and Lar Beth said yes to that call.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: We are too back during uh the pandemic.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: That was a sweet surprise and and neat thing that happened in our church um during such a you know hard time for the world.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: So that was a ray of sunshine.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh speaking of ray of sunshine, Melissa, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I've been at Forest Hills.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um actually, yesterday was my one year anniversary.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: And that's not an April Fool's joke.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: Because yesterday was April 1st.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um but one year at Forest Hills as the Minister to Children.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's been an exciting, exciting time.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: We are again, uh like Pastor Jay said, just really in a process of growth with um kids ministry.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: We've seen a lot of growth take place this past year and excited to see where God is taking us beyond this, and just to see families um engaging back in in kids ministry and next gen ministry, and just the kids.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm starting to have kids um tell parents, hey, I want to go to church.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so for me, that is a win um to hear kids say that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: So it's an exciting time to grow and create and do new things.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like families are excited for that as well.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: But but yes, been here for the past year.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: Before that, I was the preteen director at First Baptist in Hendersonville, did that for um eight years, started a preteen ministry there and grew that from the ground up.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_04: So uh lots of fun.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: I enjoy growing things and creating, and so that's that's a fun, a fun thing for me.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's been fun.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and I've loved Forest Hills just from the moment we got there, we felt like we were at home and just enjoyed working with Jay and his family and just the entire staff.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's been it's been wonderful.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I told Melissa yesterday uh on her one year anniversary that in so many ways it feels like she's been here much longer than one year because exactly because they jumped, their whole family just jumped right into life at Forest Hills and into the leadership opportunity that she had in kids' ministry, which is what we were so excited about, what she just said, a track record of growing things.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that was very exciting, you know, for us to see what that would look like with Melissa's leadership gifts, uh, leading an entire children's ministry.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so all that she's been able to do in one year.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it feels like she's been there for such a long time.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's like, man, uh one year that went by fast because it has been.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: We've we've been rolling.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: We've not been sitting around, we've been rolling.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it has been a great, great year for our church and for our kids' ministry with Melissa's leadership.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: So exciting.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, okay, let's talk about that.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Let's um talk about maybe some of the things that you guys are working on and that you're super excited about right now.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: Melissa, why don't you take that first?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we've been excited, just growing new things with the kids' ministry within that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, when I first got there, K through fifth was meeting all as one, which a lot of churches do that, and that is great.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: But we really wanted to separate out those preteen ages so that we could could see growth within the younger kids and within the older kids.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: So worked on doing that, and we have successfully created a separation between that, especially on our Wednesday nights.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: That's been our main focus.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_04: Sunday mornings, we still have the age grade, but that's where we have seen the excitement really taking off, is within that, and just the families getting there.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_04: So just building that out, and it's a it's a process, it doesn't happen overnight.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: And so you just have to know going about it, it's gonna take some time and vision catching and all of that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: But just seeing that excitement and that growth within those kids.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_04: So that's been a main focus is really working on uh those age group separations and uh just really getting families excited.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and just and then for us really growing out some of our summer activities like our camp culture, really wanting to engage families in camp.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: I love summer camp, and I want other young kids to be able to experience that as well in families.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_04: So trying to grow uh those things and kind of shoot forward in that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: How have you felt about the um building a preteen specific ministry?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was uh again part of why we were so drawn to and excited about Melissa is obviously there was the proven track record of what she did at First Baptist Hendersonville.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to First Baptist Hendersonville.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh but there was a proven track record there to where she had third, fourth, fifth grade boys excited about coming to church.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's huge.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Which everybody knows.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you get you get that age group of boys excited about coming to church, that's gonna make a difference for the entire kids' ministry and the entire church.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is gonna have impact.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because those families that hear their fifth grade boy go, I'll I can't miss church tonight.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go straight from practice in my baseball uniform because I can't miss church tonight.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's a game changer.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so we knew Melissa had that vision, she had that strategy, but then um, you know, having done it for a length of time and done it at a great church like Hendersonville, and then just being the gifted leader that she is, she brings a wisdom to it that you even just heard, like the patience.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like this doesn't all have to happen by tomorrow.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we're going to move forward with it.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that was what was so exciting to us just as we got to connect and we got to talk.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there was so much synergy between what we saw were needs and opportunities in kids' ministry that then would reflect into all of our family ministry when you tie in preschool, kids, students, all the way up to college, and then looking at our church, we knew we had space and opportunity for a visionary strategic leader to come in and make a difference.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and then that all just matched up perfectly as Melissa shared what God was doing in her life, how God had worked, and then it all just was was so connected and together with what we felt like the great need and opportunity was there.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it was just awesome to see how the Lord worked with that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's why we can sit here a year into it and go, look what Lord, look what the Lord has done in a short period of time.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and where the Whitworth family is deeply invested in the life of our church.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to where it feels like they've been there for so long, but it's because of what you just heard Melissa say.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: She's been able to come in, diagnose quickly.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Here's some places we're gonna get some quick wins, here's some things that might take a little bit longer, but we we're gonna build a strategy and we're gonna plot along step by step by step, and then you start to see that flywheel spin and that momentum start to grow.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, she mentioned Wednesday nights.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right now at our church, and and what Melissa's doing and what our kids' ministry is doing is a large piece of this.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: More people are attending our midweek discipleship groups on Wednesday night than ever in the history of our church.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yay!
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's been great to not know that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's exciting than ever.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, when kids want to go to church, yeah, then mom and dad go, well, I guess we ought to find something too.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so then all all of a sudden, mom and dad are in a discipleship group.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're in a Bible study group, they're in a parenting class, they're in a marriage class, they're in a studying a book of the Bible, whatever it might be.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because when when their kid wants to be there, then they're like, Well, we're gonna go too.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna be there too.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, it's been really cool to see how that that overflow of impact um has really, I mean, it's it's changed what that midweek discipleship space looks like.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: So when you came in, Melissa, you had a lot of experience specifically building these kinds of things.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and so Jay, when when we talk about children's ministers leading up, let's say, to their their senior pastor, um, do you like uh you said she brought you a strategy, here's how we're going to do it.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Is that how you prefer your leaders uh work with you?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: So if they have not just an idea, but like kind of have it mapped out.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, my philosophy, I think our philosophy just in how we've tried to build our staff, is let's find uh obviously godly and gifted people that have a passion, a heart, a track record, um, giftedness in the area where you know they're being called to serve, and then let's do everything we can to set them up for success, resource them, um, and then let them run.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And part of letting them run is saying, uh, build a vision, build a strategy, let's talk about it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Where we might need to nuance some things here and there, we will, where we need to tweak some things, you know, here and there we will.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: But cast the vision, build out the strategy, and then let's go.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna be your biggest cheerleader.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be your biggest advocate.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll be a lid lifter where I need to be.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I will I will be an encourager where I need to be.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will be a problem solver where I need to be.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: But really, you cast the vision, you build the strategy.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's work on it, and then when we're thumbs up, let's go, yeah, then let's roll.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna get behind it and be and be a cheerleader and an advocate and uh help wherever I can.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's exactly what Melissa's done.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um and it's awesome to see how the Lord's worked in that.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll say on that, it's been great.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I think just even at my last um church and here, knowing that you have the support of the pastor, that is huge because when you go in and you share, here's what we want to do, just knowing that you'll be there to be that cheerleader, it it helps in how we go about doing things because we know that we have that support fully and we're not being held back, um, we're being pushed forward.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's that's a great thing.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: And so I've appreciated just that camaraderie that we've had and being able to work together and um and even at my last church, just the the pastors being like, hey, we want you to do this, we fully support you in this, you have our support.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_04: It just makes a world of difference when you have a pastor who can support you in that way and encourage you.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so it makes you willing to step out and try new things because you know that you're gonna be supported.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: And if something doesn't work, then it's like, okay, well, let's we learned, let's do something different.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_04: But just knowing that you're gonna have that, it makes a difference in how how I work.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I want to know that there's someone there that's gonna, and then if I'm having a struggle, I can go and be like, hey, can you help us with this?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: And to have that cheerleader.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's it's great to have a pastor that will come in and get in the trenches sometimes and be there with you.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_04: So that's been that's been great.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I could feel our audience maybe saying, Well, that's great.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's good for y'all.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and that's part of the reason I wanted to have two healthy leaders uh for our audience to see.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this is how it could work really well.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: So let me let me speak to maybe those of you who are like, well, my my senior pastor doesn't listen to me, or my my um, my boss, let's say you're leading up to a minister of education or a discipleship pastor, um, whoever you're um talking to and bringing ideas to.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Let me just go back to young Jana uh when I was uh a young children's minister on church staff.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be the person, okay?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I am kind of an idea person.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think by nature being in children's minister, you do have lots of ideas.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember being a young uh children's minister on a church staff, a huge church church staff, um, that I felt like they were so those pastors and and discipleship, they're all worried about the adults.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: They don't, they seriously don't, I don't feel like they're investing in the next generation.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of got in a huff about it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I had all these ideas and of of of what we could do to grow our our kids' ministry and and maybe start to offer new things, new programs, new um just new ways of doing things.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I would often bring kind of half-baked ideas or I didn't really have that track record yet.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Again, it's a very young and experienced.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so it was kind of hard.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: There was some kind of barrier there that I feel like maybe was missing that maybe I could have done um from my seat a better job of leading up and having things maybe a little bit more baked and um and laid out as I'm trying to cast this vision.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: So if that is you and you're like, that's that's more like what's going on with me, I'm hearing them say um that first of all, Pastor Jay, um what I hear you say is that you prefer being led up to instead of you coming up with all the ideas for kids' ministry and telling Melissa what to do.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: She, you hired her.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And and what I'm hearing from you, Melissa, is that yes, you've got these great ideas and you've even implemented some of these ideas, but um, you're bringing Jay a plan and saying, here's what I would like to do, here's how it might look.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that feels like best practice to me.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and it's good that way, I mean, if I'm bringing him something like here's what we've got going on, or showing him some wins that we've had, like here's here's how this is going, then it's going to help him be able to come in and know how to invest in that.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: If he has no clue what's going on, right, and then how is he going to support me?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: He may think we're not doing anything.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so I've got to be able to share the things, my wins, my concerns, my all of that.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_04: So he can come alongside me.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I know what it's like to be on a, you know, very large church, a medium church.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes you can get stuck and think, nobody's even thinking about me, because you can get in your little silo, your little kids' men world and think, well, nobody's looking at me.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you know what?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I haven't told them that this is what's happening and this is where I'm needing.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_04: But but yes, coming up with your idea and your plan, because then they sometimes have great knowledge and like, hey, here's how this would really work with the congregation here, especially as a new staffer.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you're learning and getting to know all of the people and the culture.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: And so coming up, these are the ideas I have.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, well, this would work well, or this may not.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_04: You may have to go slower on this one.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_04: And so that that helps to be able to have that communication.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: But I think, yes, being able to approach the pastor with some ideas, your your whole staff with ideas, just to share that.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: But we want them to know so that way they can be involved.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think another mistake I might have made is I was kind of trying to build my own ministry, my own with my own mission and values and things like that, and not taking into account as much maybe the whole vision of the church.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think talk to us, Jay, about like mission alignment across your ministry areas at Forest Hills.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like every church, you know, we've got a mission statement.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: We have a vision statement, we have, you know, key strategic goals that we've articulated for the whole church.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: But what we tried to do, even as we outlined our mission statement and the key pieces of that, we wanted to make the language as such that it would be easily applied across all age groups.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: One of our values is being a multi-generational church that values multi-generational worship and discipleship.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so anything that we articulate in terms of mission or strategy or goals has got to be able to translate from preschool to senior adults.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so we wanted it to be where, you know, Melissa, our preschool director, our student ministers, our college minister could come in and figure out how to put handles on that mission statement that would apply appropriately to their age group.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so we even added this statement and kind of a strategy statement that that then our staff then creates relevant pathways, relevant meaning to the age group that they are ministering to.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, our four big words that define the disciple that we're trying to make and multiply is a disciple love, grows, serves, and goes.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so Melissa, then as our kids minister, takes love, grow, serve, go and translates that to help kids understand how to love the Lord in corporate worship and love the Lord in personal devotion.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: How to grow to be like Christ in their lives and how to see that growth happening, particularly as they're in community with a small group leader and their buddies.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: But then also how that growth is happening in their lives is not just they're growing, you know, physically and emotionally, but how are they growing spiritually?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they can measure that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, giving our kids opportunities to serve and see their role to serve in the life of our church, and then how they can serve uh in their school, in their neighborhood, um, on their sports team, etc.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then going on mission.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how can our kids participate in the mission of God right now?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that was a key for us was was being able to make it easy for alignment to happen.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And again, language is one thing at the end of the day, you know, you don't want it just to be a statement that that's on a wall or on a on a bulletin somewhere.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: You want it to be what's actually happening.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I think that was the whole intent of how we landed on that verbiage is to make it easy, where across all of our generations, we can articulate what those things look like in a generationally appropriate way so that there is alignment.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not we've got a different mission and goal for preschool and kids and students, they're all using different language and they're chasing after different things.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: But basically, we're talking about the same stuff with everybody from preschool all the way up through, you know, senior adults, um, and talking about how do we, how are we gospel-centered.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Disciples that are loving, growing, serving, and going.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And how are we leading others to do the same?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I think for everybody listening and watching, um, that is a key word, alignment.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're if you're struggling right now, maybe feeling like you're not being heard, revisit the those general mission statements for the whole church and values and make sure that you are aligned with that.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for example, this is this is just something that came off the top of my head.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: If if Melissa for some reason came in and said, you know what, we're not doing any kind of worship in in kin's ministry.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's for the adults.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that would disconnect from our mission statement as a church.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um or if you said, you know, we're not we're not going to really focus on missions, you know, that that would be out of alignment with with our church.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: So think about those things as you're as you're planning ministry strategy and even as you're planning on um talking with your leaders about that strategy.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um okay, I want to talk about something else.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I know Melissa, you've probably heard this acronym.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Jay, you may not, and for our audience, I want to just review this.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: So um in the book Flip the Script that we wrote um a few years ago, uh, which is about disrupting tradition for the sake of the next generation, um, we found that there's two really big needs that these younger generations have: belonging and identity.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do we provide biblical belonging in the church family?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: And how do we teach identity in Christ?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: So let's talk about belonging.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, one easy way that that we like to talk about um how we can help kids feel like they belong at church is four key relationships.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the acronym FLIP.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: So F stands for friends, L stands for leaders, I stands for influencers, P stands for pastors, not parents.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: We want we're we're not assuming that every child has um two parents that are pouring into their lives.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is for at church.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: What do we want each uh student and child, preschool or all ages, to have at church?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: So we want to foster friendships, of course.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: We're in the business of doing that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh and I think our church does a good job in kids' ministry developing those um those friendships.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um L, of course, we're we're helping kids be in um small groups where they have a leader that's pouring into them.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that, you know, is part of the discipleship process.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so those two letters, friends and leaders, statistically, we know from a lot of research that LifWay has done that kids who grow up in church having best friends at church and uh intentional godly adults pouring into their lives.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so that's your leaders, um, are much more likely to stay in the church into adults into adulthood and thrive in their faith.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: So they they have more of a chance of not being part of that huge statistic of leavers after high school graduation.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: We lose a lot of them.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: Some of them come back later on, many of them do not.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do we develop those relationships?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I, just for your awareness, influencers does not mean people who take pictures of avocado toast and put them on Instagram.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was kind of that catch-off for everybody else.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: You may not be a small group leader or a Sunday school teacher, but everybody else in the life of the church that could be um a part of that child's life.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so in children's ministry, that influencer could be a student who is serving at VBS, which I love how we do that um at Forest Hills.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so the those teenagers know the kids, the kids, you know, think they're much cooler than the adults anyway.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: So um, it's just a win-win.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then, P, this is where I want to camp out.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Pastors, how can we help our kids know that their pastor is not just for their parents?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, sometimes I see kids in church and they seem a little checked out.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes kids think that the pastor's just talking to mom and dad.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: How can we help them develop those relationships with their pastors?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: So who would like to take that first?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: Melissa, let's start with you and then Jay, you react.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds great.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think just having an openness and being okay with getting down on the floor on your knees and uh uh with the little kids and inviting your pastor.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_04: Inviting your pastor into that area, yes, and to interact with the kids when they're in their element.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: Because when they see the pastor on that level, then all of a sudden they're not just up there up in the podium, you know, on the, but they're on their level and they're they're joking around and being silly, all of a sudden they're just a guy, you know, there's not that funny Pastor Jay who's there, you know, or whoever that is.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: But just knowing that they can be on their level and that they're welcome to come in anytime.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I think as as children's leaders, children's ministers, being able to welcome that and encourage that time for the pastor to come in and have that time with the kids.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then in between services, giving those high fives and spending time with the kids.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: I know, and just interacting, interacting with them.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's so fun.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then it's just fun to see the kids light up when they're around.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I'm gonna share a little example.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, this past Sunday, we invited Pastor Jay to come into our preschool area and check out our our little worship time and we call it wiggle worship because isn't that so cute?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: Isn't that so cute?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's our preschoolers, and so it just so happened that he was not preaching.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, he was supposed to be out of town and then just some things.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: But so he had the opportunity to come in during those times and uh just he was down on his knees just at their level, just singing and dancing.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: But whenever he walked in, there were several of those little preschoolers that recognized him and just ran straight up to him.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: And it was the sweetest thing because it's like, okay, here's our pastor.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_04: But these little kids, they just know that he's just this fun guy that's coming in and they're like, come in here and dragged him in there to come and do worship with them.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's what we want to see with our kids is just that comfortableness to approach their pastor.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's just gonna translate over the years that there is someone that they can they can come to and that they can talk with.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_04: We don't want them to think they can't talk with their pastors or we want them to have that just that comfort of like, I I'm I'm free to go and talk to him whenever I need to, because that's just gonna because he's approachable and so just visible.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: Just so being approachable, so uh just encouraging the pastors out there to uh get in there with the kids.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's okay.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean if you have to throw your tie over your shoulder, just get in there and um and have and high-five them and talk to them, but having that just building that relationship and as children's leaders, allowing that to happen and providing moments when we know that there's an availability, inviting them, say, hey, we've got a time, you want to come check this out?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: We would love to have you.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just both ways, it really opens that door.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think being sure to make it easy for um your senior pastor to have those moments.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so if you're if you feel like, well, he never comes by my ministry, well, have you invited um him to come or have you made him a time where it makes sense for his schedule?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the busiest person at church on a on Sunday morning midweek is often our pastor.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do we make it make sense and plan, be thoughtful for those moments to happen?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I promise you they can when when you keep those things in mind.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: So, Jay, what are your thoughts on on PC?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I'll say this you you have not worshipped until you have wiggled while you worshiped.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna say that right now.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: With preschoolers, yes.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: With preschoolers.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I about got emotional when uh when my I did get emotional when Melissa was talking about that, because um it did mean a lot to to know that that barrier of approachability is at least minimalized, if not non-existent, you know, where those kids, their families, they know I want to know them, I want to know what's going on.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I can't know everything.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: I can't be everywhere, but I can know some things and I can be some places, you know.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do appreciate it so much.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Melissa does an amazing job, our whole team does an amazing job with this because they know this is a high value for me, that I want to be present with preschool kids, our students, college students.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they keep me informed, they keep my assistant informed of key things that they have going on.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like my calendar is filled with next gen ministry events.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Not saying I'm gonna be at all of them, but I know they're there.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then we work on the key ones.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're great about telling me, hey, this one would be great if you could come for 10 minutes at this time, it would be awesome.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So like last night I went into our middle school ministry because our middle school minister asked me, he said, Hey, there's a key moment here.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you could come in at this, if you could come in at 7.05, here's what's gonna happen.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it was awesome, you know.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was kind of the same thing as this past Sunday with uh with preschool.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had the time, I wasn't preaching, and so they said, Hey, this would be great, and here's the time windows if you could come in and um and be there.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so just creating that approachability, knowing what's going on, being present, um, being available.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and as you said, it's it's even as simple as high fives in the hallways, celebrating key life moments.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of our families um told me yesterday their son in his first baseball game had a triple and and made a made a made a uh a double play uh on defense.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I found him last night, gave a high five.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey man, I heard about your triple.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And he looked at me like, how in the world did you know that?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but you know, you just try to find those little moments where people know you want to be present, you want to be there, you want to be approachable, um, and um and doing what you can.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Again, you can't do everything.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do everything, right?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: But you do what you can.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think the power of presence is huge, you know, just Jay is so visible.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, to, you know, I can tell you're very intentional about being in different hallways at different times to be able to just rub shoulders and start to kind of see, okay, this kid goes with that, that family, and um put connect all the dots and and just develop those relationships.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think uh knowing kids' names, um, you know, often a kid where uh adults don't have to check in and have a badge, but most kids have to check in and have a little name uh badge with their security code.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's a little cheat sheet for us.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can start calling names.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the most beautiful sound to a the human ear, this is this is research, is the sound of their name.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so um I think in ministry we we need to remember that and and pursue that for sure.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I know we need to close out, you know, we'll have to have you guys back because there's so much wealth of wisdom here.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it's extremely encouraging and inspiring to see healthy examples of how this looks on um a local church staff and team.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I want to just carve out a little time um to close this out.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Melissa, you um, and I want to encourage our audience to go back and check out our episode with Melissa Whitworth.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we'll put it in the show notes so you can find that.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: You shared your calling story in that, in that um episode.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: But I want to give Pastor Jay so we um we close out the show with asking our uh guests their calling stories because the the pack the podcast is called Kids Ministry Calling.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so we want to give you a chance to just share a few things from um those that time period where you really felt like the Lord was calling you to ministry.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: This this um that that season is a is a huge part of why I'm so passionate about next generation ministry.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um because I was coming on the heels of a couple of years of of uh rebellion, you know, being a prodigal, so to speak, um in high school, kind of the middle years of high school, and um just really struggling to take ownership of my faith and really walk in a meaningful relationship, a daily relationship with the Lord.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd made some terrible decisions and and and my life kind of had the the weight of those those consequences that come with those terrible decisions, and I knew that.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord moved powerfully in my life in a in a sort of a singular moment, just me and the Lord at home, that then led right into summer camp with the student ministry of my home church.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And all through that week, I just had this sense that not only was God restoring me to a right relationship with him, but He was He was calling me to do something for Him, particularly so that others would not maybe have that same struggle, have that same wilderness, you know, season, but but that that that people particularly in that age group as a high school student, you know, for me.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but the genesis of it even went back further to to just wrestling through middle school, you know, um I did the things you talked about, belonging and identity.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: That like I'm here, I'm your case study.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and my leader through that week began to talk about God maybe calling you to ministry, which I thought, what in the world does that even mean?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and by the end of that week, I kind of had a moment with the Lord on that Thursday night of camp, where I just, you know, the phrase I use now, I didn't use it then, but the phrase I use now is is I put my yes on the table.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Lord, if this is something you're asking of me, I want to go do that.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I want to go do.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I came home and and talked with my my pastor of my home church.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he was my father in the ministry, now he's my father-in-law.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: How about that?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh but came home and talked with him and worked it through and came to the point that I I wanted to tell my home church, Spring Valley Baptist in Columbia, South Carolina, shout out S SVBC.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um and I made that that that calling public um going into my senior year in high school and shared that with our church.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then my church began to give me, and they were already doing this.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is a huge part of my wife, Laura Beth, and me both are products of a church that believed in, valued, and gave opportunity to the next generation.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because we had opportunities to serve in VBS as we were coming through in high school in key ways.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: We had opportunities to serve even within our student ministry and take ownership and leadership of certain aspects of our student ministry.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so going into my senior year of high school, those those opportunities were in, I mean, incredibly important because then I'm getting to learn and shape leadership gifts.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it was near the end of my senior year that I had the opportunity to preach for the first time on a Sunday morning in April, heading into graduation, and and my pastor gave me the opportunity to preach on a Sunday morning.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I walked off of that platform and said, I'm gonna get emotional and just said, Oh gosh, I want to do that for the rest of my life.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine doing anything else.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's as a senior in high school um in a church, again, that valued, platformed, and gave opportunity to the next generation.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that is a huge part of the reason why Larbeth and I both are so passionate about this because it's life-changing.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: The decisions that kids and students are making, we know, are gonna set trajectory for the large part of the rest of their lives.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So why would we not invest whatever resource, whatever energy, whatever leadership it takes to make sure we're reaching, discipling, and then calling out the called in the next generation and giving them opportunities to love their church and serve in their church.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: And whether they're gonna be businessmen or women, or doctors, or lawyers, or school teachers, or stay-at-home moms or dads, whatever they're gonna be, or maybe they're gonna be called to vocational ministry, they see how they have a part to play in the local church in terms of their leadership and their gifts making a difference in others.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I know that was way more than just my calling because it just bleeds into everything we're talking about right now, and it informs so much of why I'm passionate about this, why our church is passionate about this, and um, and why I think we all ought to be.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because um uh the the next great leaders that will that will lead and shape the church in the future are sitting in our third grade small groups right now.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: That gives me chills.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and they're they're the tenth grader that's struggling and has made some horrific decisions, and his parents are on the on their wits end.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and the student pastors, you know, he drives him crazy every time that kid signs up for camp, you know.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's the kid like you hope he signs up, and then he signs up and you go no, you know.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: But that very well may be the kid that God's getting ready to transform his life and then use him to make an incredible difference for the kingdom uh going forward.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my calling, but it also that calling is just wound up so much in passion uh for w why we do what we do and why why we care so much about it.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: I love how you said calling calling out the called.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um I we talk a lot on this podcast about building a pipeline for the next generation of ministry leaders, um, especially, you know, children's ministry leaders.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I get um I get phone calls all the time, you know, of churches looking and not being able to find right away.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: We know what this is like, you know, at our church.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: We've been down the road a couple of times.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um so um, you know, it may be that there's not as many ministry programs that that people can do that says, I'm going to be a children's minister and so I'm going to do this degree.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: The the path may not be that clear.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: It never really has been.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so that's why we hear all these different calling stories about how people got, you know, arrived to where they are.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: So um I think my biggest takeaway from what you just shared is um that we need to be looking, have eyes to see what the Lord is doing, and and being able to call out a calling that we see might be brewing in the hearts of our tenth graders.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's why we have interns, we have residents.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and we talk about it with our kids and with our students, opportunities, how they can serve as missionaries, how they can serve on a local church staff.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: I met with one of our um uh rising high school, well, I say Amy's a junior now, we'll be a senior next, but he's thinking about he's thinking about ministry, and he wanted to know how do you put together a sermon?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so we sat in my office for an hour and a half yesterday and talked about how I walked through a sermon preparation process, which I don't know that I've ever articulated, you know, or put down on paper the way that we tried to kind of walk through.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so coming out of it, I was like, all right, I need to do a better job of having this because it's such an art and it's so different for everybody.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I said, I need to write down actually what I do, and and not to say like, here's how you ought to do it, but here's how I do it.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you do them.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and then here's some things that maybe you can go from there and make it kind of your own.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: But but I need to have that because prayerfully, that's one of many more to come.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was sitting there with him, I'm thinking like this was me.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: This was me 30 years ago.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, literally 30 years ago.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: This was me trying to figure out how to put together a sermon to preach at my church in April of 1996.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, literally 30 years ago.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, and so it it hit me profoundly in that moment.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so yeah, I think we need to call, tell them how, show them the pathways, yes, and then and then walk with them to show them how they can start to put some feet to it and what they can do with it, and then make the investment.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad our church made the investment a couple of years ago.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: We cast a vision for increasing our internship and residency opportunities, and we made a massive investment in that um so that those that are still in college but are considering perhaps vocational ministry or just want to serve in the local church and kind of figure things out, or those that have graduated college and they're looking at where is that seminary program?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a way that you can make a seminary program work is by having a place to play in the local church while you've got a place to study.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: Great point.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if those two can go together, then you can start to think, you know, okay, general terms of discipleship, spiritual formation, spiritual growth, understanding scripture, how to how to communicate scripture, et cetera.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then here's the place where I'm playing is in kids' ministry or student ministry or whatever it might be.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I can take these things I'm learning in the classroom, and in the immediate sense, with a supervisor that is called and gifted and visionary and strategic, I can now put those things into practice immediately.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not I'm gonna store up a bunch of knowledge and then go put it in practice at some point down the road.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna learn and then I'm gonna go play.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and then sort of sort out how does all this translate into what I think that vocational calling, you know, might be uh long term or short term, and then who knows, you know, long term, but at least for now I'm in kids' ministry.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or for now I'm in student ministry, and it might be something else down the road, but for now it's this.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I can take this sort of general and apply it specific by being able to marry that together.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we've tried to, that's what we've ever done to do in our church.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's been cool to see how God has used that.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I pray it it continues, it continues to grow.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: So awesome.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for sharing your your story and giving us a little encouragement for how we as ministry leaders can can keep um leaning into that calling that are in the kids that we're serving, uh, the teenagers that are around us, um, looking for opportunities to do that.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, thank y'all so much for being here.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: We could have talked a lot longer.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot more we could have said.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: So um I I temporarily like to have these conversations.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: We may have to just do it again because I feel like we have more to say.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, about a year ago, Ben Mandrell and I did a similar episode where we just kind of talked back and forth about children's ministry, senior pastor, how does that look?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and and that kind of thing.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll we'll periodically revisit this topic because it's important.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I wanted to show you a very healthy example of how that is happening in my own personal local church um here in Nashville.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so grateful.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: I hope this conversation was inspiring to you and that maybe you'll share it with your senior pastor.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: I I feel totally good with that.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think Pastor Jay would approve.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, think about that.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and then hey, join us back next week.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna have another episode of Kids Ministry Calling.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: This episode of Kids Ministry Calling Podcast was brought to you by our amazing team, including executive producer Andy Elkin, producer Nikki Update, edited by Trey Garza, and recorded in the Lifeweight Podcast Studio in Brentwood, Tennessee, with Sound Engineer Donnie Gordon, and artwork by Cameron Wilson.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm your host, Janet McRuder.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for listening to his ministry calling.