Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Trump’s Deadline To End The War? + Taking The Pardon Power Away From The President

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Full Episode - Trump’s Deadline To End The War? + Taking The Pardon Power Away From The President · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly working on this for years myself, and here's
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Speaker 1: an opportunity for you to take matters into your own
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Speaker 1: hands as well. Hello Aaron, Welcome to the Thursday edition
1:53
Speaker 1: of the Chuck Podcast. We've got a lot going on
1:56
Speaker 1: this episode. I've obviously got a lot going on in
1:59
Speaker 1: this feed over the last week the launch of Dynastic,
2:02
Speaker 1: my new sports history podcast with Jaedande. We are just
2:08
Speaker 1: incredibly moved by the initial response, an amazing number of downloads, already,
2:13
Speaker 1: terrific feedback, and it has only made me more motivated
2:17
Speaker 1: to find more nuggets and stuff you didn't ever know
2:20
Speaker 1: about When it comes to our next topic for Dynastic,
2:23
Speaker 1: which is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Obviously, you can find Dynastic
2:29
Speaker 1: and it's in my audio feeds here and you can
2:31
Speaker 1: find it wherever you find your podcast or on the
2:34
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio network as well as for this episode. First, let
2:39
Speaker 1: me give it to you my guest. My guest is
2:41
Speaker 1: a Baltimore area congressman, and it's a congressman on a
2:44
Speaker 1: topic that you know I have been obsessed with, which
2:49
Speaker 1: is updating our constitution new constitutional amendments to sort of
2:52
Speaker 1: update our democracy. Specifically, this is the Congressman Johnny Olachsky
2:58
Speaker 1: known his political friends as Johnny Oh no relation to
3:03
Speaker 1: the shirt manufacturer. He's the one that introduced the bill
3:09
Speaker 1: to create essentially an opportunity for Congress to deny to
3:17
Speaker 1: nullify a presidential pardon if enough if essentially a two
3:21
Speaker 1: thirds majority has reached in both the House and the
3:23
Speaker 1: Senate with a few things, so creating sort of a
3:26
Speaker 1: veto override provision in the Constitution for presidential pardons. Considering
3:31
Speaker 1: what both Biden did and at the end of his
3:33
Speaker 1: term and what Trump's been doing pretty much on a
3:35
Speaker 1: weekly basis, a pretty blatant pay for play pardon process
3:39
Speaker 1: that he's created. I think this is a real opportunity
3:43
Speaker 1: for bipartisan support on this. Don Bacon, retiring Republican from Omaha, Nebraska,
3:47
Speaker 1: is already signed on. It's just the type of thing
3:50
Speaker 1: that I think if you're a Republican trying to show
3:53
Speaker 1: some distance, wanting to tell Independence that you're not a
3:57
Speaker 1: MAGA person, this is probably as I was telling you
4:01
Speaker 1: yesterday's episode, right, the Republican Party's brand is actually in
4:04
Speaker 1: better shape than the MAGA brand. But Trump and Maga
4:07
Speaker 1: are one and the same, and Trump is the brand
4:09
Speaker 1: these days of the Republican parties. So if you want
4:11
Speaker 1: to show distance, this actually might be an opportunity realistically
4:16
Speaker 1: for this bill to pass. For what it's worth, I
4:19
Speaker 1: would circle December on your calendar. Lane Duck periods are
4:23
Speaker 1: when controversial bipartisan things usually can make it through, even
4:29
Speaker 1: in this polarized Congress. A lot of it will have
4:30
Speaker 1: to do with how if there is a big Democratic
4:33
Speaker 1: wave in November, then I actually imagine there'll be a
4:36
Speaker 1: lot of Republicans who might be on the ballot in
4:38
Speaker 1: twenty eight who will be more interested in being on
4:43
Speaker 1: the pro ethics side of the democracy movement in general,
4:47
Speaker 1: and that's where you might have an opportunity. So I
4:49
Speaker 1: think a couple events have to happen for this to
4:52
Speaker 1: take place. You need a big, big sort of wave,
4:55
Speaker 1: if you will. And then in that lane duck period
4:58
Speaker 1: where Republicans still have control, that's where something like this,
5:03
Speaker 1: this is this is what happened when the repeal of
5:05
Speaker 1: donas don't tell big, a big you know, Democrats didn't
5:11
Speaker 1: want to do it before the election. There's this big
5:14
Speaker 1: Republican wave and that December lame duck frankly is one
5:21
Speaker 1: that Obama ends up using to set up his reelection eventually.
5:25
Speaker 1: But it's perhaps the most effective lame duck first term
5:27
Speaker 1: presidents ever had, and it was in that December period
5:31
Speaker 1: that they were able to get the votes to repeal donats.
5:33
Speaker 1: Don't tell those back in like I said, December of
5:36
Speaker 1: twenty ten. So lame duck periods are the best time
5:40
Speaker 1: to get things like this to sort of frankly sneak
5:43
Speaker 1: them through, if you will, sort of clean clean the
5:48
Speaker 1: clean the barn stalls. Clear out the barn is another
5:50
Speaker 1: expression that gets used. So that's the guest Johnny O.
5:53
Speaker 1: It's interesting and I encourage you to pay attention. We
5:56
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on this, on the issues
5:58
Speaker 1: of updating the the Constitution. We definitely need update. We
6:03
Speaker 1: know this, We need to modernize it. We need to
6:05
Speaker 1: modernize our infrastructure on the democracy, and I think we're
6:09
Speaker 1: gonna get there right now. We had to take a
6:10
Speaker 1: few steps back, like all this ridiculous gerrymandering referendums that
6:14
Speaker 1: we're dealing with, but it actually I feel like the
6:18
Speaker 1: appetite for reform is growing, even if the current situation
6:22
Speaker 1: feels like it's a setback. So that's a why I'm
6:26
Speaker 1: highlighting these number one and B why I think you
6:28
Speaker 1: should pay attention. As for Johnny O, pay attention to him.
6:31
Speaker 1: He may be a freshman member of Congress, but he
6:34
Speaker 1: was a two term county exec in Baltimore County that
6:36
Speaker 1: is one of the power centers of Maryland politics. Bottom line,
6:41
Speaker 1: he's hoping to become governor Johnny Oh someday. He doesn't
6:44
Speaker 1: say it, but I'll tell you he's hoping to become
6:46
Speaker 1: governor Johnny O in twenty thirty perhaps, And so keep
6:51
Speaker 1: an eye on him, and by the way, pay particular
6:53
Speaker 1: attention to the answer he gave me when I asked
6:56
Speaker 1: him about a Wesmore presidential campaign. I'm just going to
6:59
Speaker 1: what I gotta give away the store on this one,
7:02
Speaker 1: but it wasn't an obvious answer, and I'll just leave
7:04
Speaker 1: it at that. A few more headlines that I'm going
7:08
Speaker 1: to get into in this podcast. Number one, A quick
7:11
Speaker 1: update where we are in the war. I think we
7:14
Speaker 1: have a new potential end date and I'll tell you
7:16
Speaker 1: about that in a minute, or at least a potential
7:20
Speaker 1: goal to try to where I think the President is
7:23
Speaker 1: going to try to wrap up the Iran war, although
7:25
Speaker 1: his ability to wrap up this war I think is
7:28
Speaker 1: very minimal. But the biggest news of the week has
7:31
Speaker 1: not taken place in Washington Tehran. It has taken place
7:36
Speaker 1: in two courtrooms, one in Santa Fe and one in
7:39
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. And that is the first signs that the
7:43
Speaker 1: tobacco affication, if you will, of the social media companies
7:47
Speaker 1: has begun. Massive court losses by Meta and YouTube Meta
7:54
Speaker 1: twice this week, once in New Mexico, second time in
7:57
Speaker 1: La YouTube part of the LA one. This is going
8:02
Speaker 1: to be, I think an escalating story. I'm gonna get
8:06
Speaker 1: to that in a minute. And we also want to
8:11
Speaker 1: it was a tale of two parties all within the
8:13
Speaker 1: same party. It was the best of times, it was
8:14
Speaker 1: the worst of times. That's pretty much a tale of
8:17
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party that we want to discuss also in
8:21
Speaker 1: this episode. And then finally, Happy Opening Day. I'm wearing
8:28
Speaker 1: my Washington NAT's shirt. I'm really open we can win
8:31
Speaker 1: game one, because if we win game one, it's probably
8:33
Speaker 1: the only time we're gonna have a winning record here
8:35
Speaker 1: in that's baseball. I fear we're looking at one hundred
8:38
Speaker 1: losses or more. This is a disaster, but there's always hope,
8:44
Speaker 1: right We've got The upside is rooting for these young
8:46
Speaker 1: kids and getting to know them. Whether it's pretty house
8:49
Speaker 1: James Wood. So, I have a little bit of baseball
8:53
Speaker 1: and a modest proposal to bring back the fun in
8:58
Speaker 1: the NCAA tournament and satisfy the major powers all at
9:03
Speaker 1: the same time. This is a simple solution, folks, but
9:08
Speaker 1: you're going to have to wait until the end of
9:10
Speaker 1: the episode to hear that solution. But let's get started
9:15
Speaker 1: with the serious stuff. So I tease the idea that
9:17
Speaker 1: we now have an end date, the new deadline for
9:23
Speaker 1: the president to wrap up the war. According to my
9:25
Speaker 1: friends at CNBC just before I began taping that the
9:31
Speaker 1: Chinese and the United States have agreed on a new
9:36
Speaker 1: date for President Trump's visit to Beijing. It will now
9:40
Speaker 1: take place May fourteenth and fifteenth. You will see a
9:45
Speaker 1: reciprocal visit both the first family will host she and
9:50
Speaker 1: his wife, Madame Pang li Yuan at a yet to
9:55
Speaker 1: be announced date later this year. But the reason I
9:58
Speaker 1: say that May fourteenth in fifteenth, one of the reasons
10:01
Speaker 1: why they delayed the April meeting was this ongoing war,
10:05
Speaker 1: which means if there is not resolution, if we are
10:09
Speaker 1: not directionally headed to a conclusion to this war of
10:13
Speaker 1: some sort, one would assume this either gets delayed or
10:17
Speaker 1: we're going to start normalizing this war. And this war
10:20
Speaker 1: has no end in sight. So the point being is
10:23
Speaker 1: that we now apparently you can, in the next fifty
10:26
Speaker 1: days approximately from where we are today to May fourteenth,
10:32
Speaker 1: somehow we either are going to find out one of
10:35
Speaker 1: two things. We're going to have a glide path tow
10:37
Speaker 1: 're figuring out what an uncomfortable cease fire looks like,
10:41
Speaker 1: which appears to be politically where the president is feeling
10:44
Speaker 1: the desperation. You can see it at the same time,
10:47
Speaker 1: he's getting pressure not to not to essentially give the
10:51
Speaker 1: regime a win. And anything short of regime change or
10:58
Speaker 1: no control of the straight of hor moves is going
10:59
Speaker 1: to give this regime the ability to say they stood
11:03
Speaker 1: down the Americans. Because who's begging to stop right now.
11:07
Speaker 1: It isn't the Iranians. It is the United States. And
11:10
Speaker 1: why does President Trump desperate for an exigram Because this
11:14
Speaker 1: thing is politically out of control for him. He has
11:17
Speaker 1: hit another all time low in his weekly average on approval.
11:21
Speaker 1: He has got more problems with the energy markets. You've
11:25
Speaker 1: got even the most bullish banks and financial analysts when
11:31
Speaker 1: it came to I think Goldman finally flipped and said, no,
11:34
Speaker 1: it is even if everything stops today, these energy markets
11:37
Speaker 1: are going to take months to recover. In fact, in
11:39
Speaker 1: some cases years. Yes, the United States is going to
11:43
Speaker 1: be in better shape than pretty much every other region
11:46
Speaker 1: around the world during this heightened energy crisis because we
11:50
Speaker 1: get less of our oil from this region. But the
11:53
Speaker 1: markets of the markets and everybody's going to be impact.
11:55
Speaker 1: And this tax on Trump voters, remember, this is the
11:58
Speaker 1: biggest problem. And frankly, the Iranians are a lot more
12:04
Speaker 1: sophisticated about our political issues than I think we give
12:08
Speaker 1: them credit for. Certainly this administration gives them credit for.
12:11
Speaker 1: And they're fully aware that the voters that are currently
12:17
Speaker 1: feeling the worst parts of this war so far, of
12:22
Speaker 1: the fallout from this war, are Trump voters. Again, if
12:26
Speaker 1: you drive more miles in a given day, and just
12:29
Speaker 1: by if you live in rural or excerm in America,
12:32
Speaker 1: you just drive more. This is something you This is
12:37
Speaker 1: something I learned over the years. You know, living in Florida.
12:40
Speaker 1: Florida is a place you're driving all the time. And
12:42
Speaker 1: I was in Miami and in fact, I just in
12:44
Speaker 1: a small way just to understand I think why sometimes
12:48
Speaker 1: people in DC are totally immune to the gas price
12:51
Speaker 1: issue is actually how few miles you have to travel.
12:55
Speaker 1: If you live in the DMV it is a very
12:58
Speaker 1: compact area. You could be stuck in. I'm not saying
13:01
Speaker 1: you're not gonna it's not gonna take you an hour
13:02
Speaker 1: to go fifteen miles, Okay, that is you know, ditto
13:06
Speaker 1: with New York City. You can have plenty of ways
13:08
Speaker 1: that it takes you forever, but your actual mile it's
13:11
Speaker 1: travel is very minimal. So you attend a gas goes farther,
13:16
Speaker 1: and you know, talk to anybody that leases cars. Okay,
13:23
Speaker 1: if you lease a car, and I will tell you
13:25
Speaker 1: I'm a car, I lis a car. I don't you
13:27
Speaker 1: know I own we don't own a car. In some cases,
13:32
Speaker 1: I Lisa car right, whatever makes financial sense. But if
13:35
Speaker 1: you lise a car, you can put your lease payment down,
13:38
Speaker 1: if you agree to a minimum, you know, like, I'm
13:41
Speaker 1: not gonna drive more than fifteen thousand miles in a year,
13:44
Speaker 1: twelve thousand miles in a year, ten thousand miles in
13:46
Speaker 1: a year. Well, in Florida. If you lease a car
13:50
Speaker 1: and you would think you're going to drive less than
13:52
Speaker 1: ten thousand miles, You're a moron. It's almost impossible. You
13:56
Speaker 1: gotta drive everywhere. There's no public transportation, nobody you know walking,
13:59
Speaker 1: You're always drive it. So when you lease a car,
14:01
Speaker 1: you're always in the twelve thousand to fifteen thousand range
14:05
Speaker 1: in a year, and likely more, you know, fifteen to
14:08
Speaker 1: twenty thousand miles in a given year. Every time I've
14:14
Speaker 1: leased a current in this area, I have I've always
14:17
Speaker 1: been paranoid to do the seventy five hundred mark, thinking oh,
14:20
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go over that, and I never go over it.
14:23
Speaker 1: And yes, you could say, well, you have the luxury
14:26
Speaker 1: of living inside the Beltway, but that's the point. It
14:28
Speaker 1: is a compact area, and most of official Washington lives
14:32
Speaker 1: in a compact area. So we here are in a
14:35
Speaker 1: gas bubble, gas price bubble. We don't feel it the
14:39
Speaker 1: way you will feel it in a Texas, in a Florida,
14:43
Speaker 1: in an Iowa, in a Kansas. You get my point.
14:47
Speaker 1: So this is the political pressure, the absolute political pressure
14:54
Speaker 1: that the president is feeling that is domestic sort of
14:57
Speaker 1: those that those of its advisors that are more worried
15:00
Speaker 1: about the current political environment than they are the geopolitical
15:02
Speaker 1: environment right now. At the same time, the president's getting
15:06
Speaker 1: cross pressures now at the moment from the Saudis and UAE,
15:12
Speaker 1: and that they are petrified now that this is he
15:16
Speaker 1: is going to retreat too soon. It's going to keep Essentially,
15:20
Speaker 1: nothing will change for them, right. They have not wanted
15:24
Speaker 1: the Iranians to have this leverage over the region, and
15:27
Speaker 1: they will still have leverage in the region, leverage over
15:30
Speaker 1: the strait of hormones. Yes, they are a weak in state. Yes,
15:33
Speaker 1: in theory. What's in America's best interest might turn out
15:36
Speaker 1: to be we might get everything we want out of
15:38
Speaker 1: this in the medium term, but the region will not,
15:43
Speaker 1: which means we are not going to have stability, we
15:46
Speaker 1: are not going to have peace, and you're going to
15:48
Speaker 1: continue to have low grade proxy fights, and they'll probably
15:52
Speaker 1: be proxy fights that the United States government isn't interested in.
15:55
Speaker 1: And that is why I'm not saying I agree with
15:58
Speaker 1: what the Saudis in Ua saying, but I understand stand
16:00
Speaker 1: their point of view from this, and they figure the
16:02
Speaker 1: minute the US bails on this and pulls the plug,
16:05
Speaker 1: they are not coming back into quote unquote mow the lawn. Right,
16:09
Speaker 1: this idea of that somehow, every once in a while,
16:11
Speaker 1: the US and Israel will just whatever military ramp up
16:14
Speaker 1: the regime in Iran does that they will just mow
16:17
Speaker 1: it down again. That worked with Saddam for a while, right,
16:22
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just sort of it felt like
16:23
Speaker 1: we had, you know, we had air strikes about every
16:26
Speaker 1: six months against Saddam after the first Gulf War, right
16:30
Speaker 1: tailing a Bush, I think it felt like about every
16:33
Speaker 1: three to six months. It was probably further gaps than that,
16:36
Speaker 1: but that you would have, you know, just a consistent
16:41
Speaker 1: degrading of what Iraq was trying to do. So I'm
16:47
Speaker 1: not sure that there is going to be that kind
16:50
Speaker 1: of appetite for something like that. So once again, in
16:55
Speaker 1: some ways, nothing has changed in this situation from when
16:58
Speaker 1: he got into this war. He's boxed themself in. It's
17:01
Speaker 1: it's all bad options, And the question is what is
17:05
Speaker 1: he going to prioritize. Is he going to prioritize risking
17:10
Speaker 1: negative political fallout for his party in the midterms here
17:12
Speaker 1: in this country, or is he going to risk his
17:15
Speaker 1: personal family's business interests with two of the most important
17:19
Speaker 1: patrons in the golf to him, the Saudi's and Uaa.
17:25
Speaker 1: I know some people wouldn't put you know, the whole
17:28
Speaker 1: point of this podcast is to sort of be straightforward
17:31
Speaker 1: with you. Right, this is He's got his own personal
17:34
Speaker 1: that they have. The Saudi's and ue have personal business
17:37
Speaker 1: leverage over Trump in his family, and they want one thing.
17:44
Speaker 1: The current political climate has its own and the markets
17:47
Speaker 1: have its own version of leverage over Trump. Right, he
17:49
Speaker 1: doesn't want to be a loser, and he doesn't want
17:51
Speaker 1: to suddenly lose support. I know, So I know what
18:01
Speaker 1: some of you are thinking. If he's going to pick
18:03
Speaker 1: a side, he's going to pick them upside on money,
18:08
Speaker 1: I certainly would make that the three point favorite if
18:10
Speaker 1: you were to make it a point spread, like, you know, yeah,
18:13
Speaker 1: it's probably fifty two forty eight. He's more likely that
18:17
Speaker 1: he will listen to his financial patrons and his family's
18:19
Speaker 1: financial patrons more then he's necessarily going to listen to
18:26
Speaker 1: the polls and to the public. But I don't think
18:30
Speaker 1: I think it's a much closer call than even the
18:32
Speaker 1: most cynical sort of person about Trump being a you know,
18:38
Speaker 1: sort of running a kleptocracy here, right, probably, you know,
18:43
Speaker 1: so I once, like I said, he's in a box
18:48
Speaker 1: and he's going to make some entity and he's trying
18:50
Speaker 1: to there's no needle to thread here. There just isn't.
18:56
Speaker 1: And that's the situation he's in. So at this point,
19:04
Speaker 1: there's really not a lot more to say about this,
19:06
Speaker 1: but it will be It is interesting to see while
19:09
Speaker 1: Trump talks a big game about trying to have talks
19:12
Speaker 1: and they've traded absurd proposals for each side. Right, we
19:18
Speaker 1: continue to send ground forces into the region ready to
19:22
Speaker 1: be deployed. Eighty second Airborne now has joined some marines
19:28
Speaker 1: that are already over there. So it does feel as
19:31
Speaker 1: if and I, you know, I I think if he
19:37
Speaker 1: decides he needs to finish the job, ground troops are
19:41
Speaker 1: inevitable because the only way we can take control, the
19:45
Speaker 1: only way they can manage the situation is to take
19:47
Speaker 1: control of the straight of hormones. And the only way
19:49
Speaker 1: to take control of the straight of hormones but boots
19:52
Speaker 1: on the ground, on the shorelines. And so it's, you know,
19:57
Speaker 1: either we're accelerating towards either way. I want to circle
20:01
Speaker 1: back to what I said before, circle fourteenth and fifteenth
20:04
Speaker 1: on your calendar and figure that that is the window
20:09
Speaker 1: that he is going to if he can get out
20:11
Speaker 1: of this. He is going to try to get out
20:14
Speaker 1: of this. Let's just say I'm mostly skeptical that he
20:20
Speaker 1: can do that in that time frame. This episode of
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Speaker 1: am a customer. So I want to pivot now to
22:07
Speaker 1: sort of my tale of two parties, and it's really
22:10
Speaker 1: not a tale of two party. It's a tale of
22:11
Speaker 1: one party. With the Democrats, right, things have never been better,
22:16
Speaker 1: and yet the party feels leaderless, directionalists, and the voters
22:21
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of confidence in it, even as
22:22
Speaker 1: they're ready to vote for pretty much any Democrat if
22:25
Speaker 1: they're going up against a mega Republican. Right. The big
22:28
Speaker 1: news from Tuesday night was the Democrats won a couple
22:32
Speaker 1: more special elections thirty and oh right now in flipping
22:35
Speaker 1: state legislative seats and Trump took office. Meaning the Democrats
22:38
Speaker 1: have flipped thirty across the country count of three zero
22:42
Speaker 1: state legislative seats held by Republicans, and the Republicans have
22:46
Speaker 1: flipped exactly zero Democratic held seats in that same time period.
22:53
Speaker 1: So that's a pretty impressive. Is my friend Crystaliza point
22:57
Speaker 1: out thirty and zhero that is and that is is
23:01
Speaker 1: As he pointed out, there's a lot of noise in
23:03
Speaker 1: politics right now. But that is a signal and we
23:06
Speaker 1: know that this is this is where this looks like
23:10
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen all over again, which led to a forty
23:12
Speaker 1: seat House game. Obviously with redistricting, gerry mendering everything. You know,
23:17
Speaker 1: twenty seats is the new forty seats, right, you know,
23:19
Speaker 1: And any to me, anything twenty or above is the
23:22
Speaker 1: definition of a wave in this in this reapportionment, in
23:27
Speaker 1: this era of reapportionment that we have, so things have
23:32
Speaker 1: never looked better on the opportunity front. And I will
23:38
Speaker 1: take it a step further. The Democrats have orchestrated two
23:41
Speaker 1: shutdowns now of the government, one apart, you know, one
23:44
Speaker 1: a more, a more, a larger shutdown over healthcare that
23:50
Speaker 1: started before the twenty twenty five election day and went
23:53
Speaker 1: through those elections, and then the one that we're currently
23:57
Speaker 1: in with the just the partial shutdown of the which
24:00
Speaker 1: is being felt most acutely at our airports. And Democrats
24:07
Speaker 1: are winning both shutdowns and it's actually very I mean
24:09
Speaker 1: to just show you what this is a sign of
24:12
Speaker 1: just how unpopular Trump is. Nine times out of ten,
24:17
Speaker 1: ninety nine times out of one hundred, the party that
24:23
Speaker 1: forces a shutdown eventually gets blamed, and so far in
24:27
Speaker 1: both cases Democrats forced the first shutdown, not only did
24:31
Speaker 1: they not get blamed, they got healthcare front center in
24:34
Speaker 1: this second shutdown, which was arguably triggered by the actions,
24:41
Speaker 1: the illegal and unconstitutional actions that ICE took in Minneapolis.
24:47
Speaker 1: The death of two American citizens murdered by ICE agents
24:54
Speaker 1: certainly I think drove the party to do what they did,
24:58
Speaker 1: and largely the public has been with them on this.
25:04
Speaker 1: And we've hit a point in this shutdown, and I
25:06
Speaker 1: hinted at it a couple I hinted out about a
25:08
Speaker 1: week ago. I said, you know, the Democrats have probably
25:11
Speaker 1: gotten everything they're going to get out of this. Politically,
25:14
Speaker 1: They've got the Republicans begging to make a deal, and
25:19
Speaker 1: you know, at some point, you know they're crying uncle.
25:22
Speaker 1: They got to say, Okay, let's go. You got a deal,
25:27
Speaker 1: because there's a risk where this suddenly it just becomes
25:32
Speaker 1: about the pain being inflicted on TSA and travelers and
25:37
Speaker 1: less about ICE. Though I do think the administration and
25:45
Speaker 1: the Republicans did the Democrats a huge favor by deploying
25:48
Speaker 1: ICE agents in the airports. I don't think that does
25:51
Speaker 1: what they think it does. It may may make their
25:54
Speaker 1: base happy, but think about this idea that the White
26:02
Speaker 1: House believes that Ice has become such a negative that
26:08
Speaker 1: it can be used as leverage to scare travelers and
26:12
Speaker 1: scare Democrats in a cutting a deal. Like they now
26:16
Speaker 1: know they've created a menacing agency. Like that's what's so
26:20
Speaker 1: surreal about this decision. They're accepting the premise that the
26:23
Speaker 1: Democratic Party's description of Ice is what the public thinks
26:28
Speaker 1: and is what it is, and that they can somehow
26:30
Speaker 1: leverage that for their gain. Oh they fear ice? Way
26:33
Speaker 1: do we put ice at the airports? You're just like,
26:37
Speaker 1: I mean, it really is. I know I keep reusing
26:40
Speaker 1: this old movie metaphor, but in Blazing Saddles, when the
26:42
Speaker 1: sheriff pulls the gun on himself he says, don't want
26:45
Speaker 1: anybody come near, I might shoot. I mean, it reminds
26:48
Speaker 1: me of a version of that is. It is a strange.
26:53
Speaker 1: It was I think a strange tactic, and I don't
26:57
Speaker 1: think it does the Republicans any good, and certainly it
26:59
Speaker 1: does help ICE's image at all. But the bigger thing
27:05
Speaker 1: is the Democrats have accomplished a lot with this shutdown.
27:07
Speaker 1: When this shutdown began, Christy Nome was that the was
27:11
Speaker 1: the Secretary of Homeland Security. She is no longer. There's
27:14
Speaker 1: already been a confirmed new secretary, and Mark Wayne Mullen
27:18
Speaker 1: has essentially agreed that there should be body cameras. He
27:23
Speaker 1: seems to be open to getting rid of the masks,
27:25
Speaker 1: you know, beyond essentially unless you're at the border, which
27:28
Speaker 1: I think was a fair proposal, right, you know, if
27:31
Speaker 1: you're dealing with the cartels, they don't want to show
27:32
Speaker 1: their face because those cartels do try to assassinate people.
27:36
Speaker 1: But outside of that, they have to abide by the
27:38
Speaker 1: exact same laws that all law enforcement agents have to
27:40
Speaker 1: abide by in this country. Hard stop. So the body camera.
27:44
Speaker 1: The point is is that it did. It does seem
27:47
Speaker 1: as if the Democrats have gotten a lot out of
27:50
Speaker 1: this shutdown the long if they you know it, and look,
27:59
Speaker 1: I get that they're not going to get everything they
28:01
Speaker 1: want at ICE, and there's some things they can mean.
28:04
Speaker 1: The part the problem the Democrats have is they don't
28:07
Speaker 1: have that much leverage over the ICE funding, right because
28:10
Speaker 1: it was done as part of the big beautiful Bill.
28:12
Speaker 1: That stuff was already leveraged in at best, and I
28:16
Speaker 1: understand why they're hesitant to take the deal that's on
28:20
Speaker 1: the table because they want to codify these changes to
28:25
Speaker 1: ICE protocols without just taking word for it and things
28:29
Speaker 1: like that. So I understand the hesitance. But the big
28:36
Speaker 1: picture here, all of the coverage on this now in
28:43
Speaker 1: whatever's left of legacy media is just focused on the
28:47
Speaker 1: harm it's doing the TSA agents and the burden it's
28:51
Speaker 1: putting on travelers. This is no longer about ICE. So
28:56
Speaker 1: the point is when you get to a situation when
28:59
Speaker 1: you sort of you're you're playing a little politics here
29:01
Speaker 1: with the government, You're playing politics with the budget. There's
29:05
Speaker 1: that fine line, and you know, there's some Look, ultimately,
29:10
Speaker 1: I think it's ridiculous that a political dispute somehow disrupts
29:15
Speaker 1: all travel, right Like, we've we've got to figure out
29:18
Speaker 1: how to insulate uh travel, insulate the public from this nonsense.
29:24
Speaker 1: You know, this is I am. I am more than
29:28
Speaker 1: convinced that a sort of quasi privatization of TSA. What
29:32
Speaker 1: do I mean by quasi That essentially TSA works for
29:36
Speaker 1: these airport authorities period The airport authorities get reimbursed for
29:40
Speaker 1: the security from the government, but essentially they're making payroll,
29:45
Speaker 1: They're they're keeping consistent. There is no skipping paychecks because
29:50
Speaker 1: a couple of members of Congress want to want to
29:53
Speaker 1: stand on ceremony for a variety of reasons. And you're
29:57
Speaker 1: minimizing the impact on the public. And I know some
30:00
Speaker 1: of you may arguement, no, forcing the public to get
30:04
Speaker 1: irritated and to focus their ire is part of the problem.
30:07
Speaker 1: I hear you on that, but I don't think at
30:09
Speaker 1: this point the iyre is going to be a focused
30:12
Speaker 1: ire right. And the Democrats probably ought to take this
30:16
Speaker 1: deal before the weekend ends, and I anticipate that a
30:19
Speaker 1: deal is going to get done before the next time
30:21
Speaker 1: you hear me on this. I kind of think they
30:24
Speaker 1: have to. What's interesting here is is is what is
30:28
Speaker 1: how I think one of the reasons why Democrats have
30:33
Speaker 1: yet to take the deal is they don't really have
30:34
Speaker 1: a leader at the moment. Chuck Schumer has never seemed
30:41
Speaker 1: more unsteady on his feet than he does at the moment.
30:45
Speaker 1: He does absolutely, you know, at all. And I don't
30:50
Speaker 1: know how much of it is connected, but I think
30:53
Speaker 1: a lot of this is connected to a fascinating Wall
30:55
Speaker 1: Street Journal piece from last week that got went into
30:59
Speaker 1: the weeds on the effort to push Chuck Schumer aside
31:03
Speaker 1: from leadership, and I encourage you, I encourage you to
31:09
Speaker 1: read the story in full in the Wall Street Journal
31:14
Speaker 1: because it it. What was amazing about it is how
31:17
Speaker 1: kind of open everybody is about the various factions now
31:20
Speaker 1: in the Senate Democratic Conference and the sort of the
31:26
Speaker 1: reality check right oh the peace in the Wall Street
31:29
Speaker 1: Journal opens with an anecdote of Chris Murphy, Democratic Senator
31:32
Speaker 1: from Connecticut at a dinner with a bunch of progressive
31:34
Speaker 1: activists who's you know, they're having this dinner and they're
31:36
Speaker 1: saying okay, and they're basically pushing Murphy, and Murphy is
31:41
Speaker 1: somebody who may run for president more on the progressive
31:43
Speaker 1: side of things, and they're pushing Murphy. We got to
31:47
Speaker 1: deal with the elephant in the room. What about you know,
31:49
Speaker 1: we got to got to get rid of Chuck Schumer
31:52
Speaker 1: and what surprised apparently folks at that dinner and of
31:55
Speaker 1: course what leaked out. And then Murphy basically owned up
31:59
Speaker 1: to the common without being overly critical as Schumer the person.
32:02
Speaker 1: For what it's worth. What he said was, well, look,
32:12
Speaker 1: a bunch of us have essentially done some vote counting
32:16
Speaker 1: and the votes aren't there to get rid of Schumer,
32:21
Speaker 1: which doesn't surprise me, and you're certainly not going to
32:24
Speaker 1: see this in an election year. But what you're starting
32:28
Speaker 1: to see is the fact that this is being talked
32:31
Speaker 1: about openly, like there's a pressure campaign to get him
32:34
Speaker 1: not to run for leader after November, to simply accept
32:38
Speaker 1: the premise that this is his last year as leader.
32:41
Speaker 1: They seem to be hoping against hope that he will
32:46
Speaker 1: decide not to seek real announce that he's not going
32:48
Speaker 1: to seek reelection in twenty eight and that he will
32:51
Speaker 1: not stand in essentially just like Mitch McConnell did, right,
32:54
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell decided not to seek reelection in twenty twenty six,
32:58
Speaker 1: but chose to step aside as leader at the end
33:00
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four, allowing new leadership to take over
33:04
Speaker 1: and he would essentially be there as the as a
33:08
Speaker 1: as a as a godfather at emeritis of sorts. Allow
33:11
Speaker 1: what Nancy Pelosi, although she apparently you know, she's been
33:15
Speaker 1: there a few cycles, but essentially similar to how Pelosi
33:18
Speaker 1: handed over the reins to Jeffreys. On that front, we've
33:22
Speaker 1: had smoother transitions there than we did, of course, with
33:25
Speaker 1: what the House Republicans have done. What look, I think
33:29
Speaker 1: what makes this story amazing, Number one is how public
33:32
Speaker 1: everything is. And when this leaked out, Murphy certainly seemed
33:36
Speaker 1: to admit that they've done some nose counts right, and
33:40
Speaker 1: he's on the side. You've got Elizabeth Warren. What this
33:43
Speaker 1: piece did was clarified who's behind the it's time for
33:47
Speaker 1: Schumer to go. So it appears to be Chris Murphy,
33:51
Speaker 1: appears to be Elizabeth Warren, appears to be retiring Senator
33:56
Speaker 1: Tina Smith from Minnesota. That mildly surprised me that she
34:01
Speaker 1: was a part of this. Then you have folks that
34:05
Speaker 1: are sort of in the category of they don't want
34:09
Speaker 1: to tick Schumer off, but they want to be there
34:11
Speaker 1: ready to replace him. Right, Brian Shatz is in that column,
34:15
Speaker 1: And in fact, it looks like Shatz has played his
34:17
Speaker 1: cards so well that according to this piece, Schumer or
34:21
Speaker 1: Schumer's allies are, you know, if they have a say
34:25
Speaker 1: and who replaces him, they'd like to see Shatz. That
34:27
Speaker 1: might be a kiss of death. But Shatz went out
34:33
Speaker 1: on a limb and went ahead and defended Schumer. And
34:39
Speaker 1: he said Chuck's got broad and deep support, even as
34:43
Speaker 1: detractors would have to admit that we have an extraordinary
34:45
Speaker 1: class of candidates for the Senate and that wouldn't have
34:47
Speaker 1: happened without him. He's referring to Roy Cooper, He's referring
34:50
Speaker 1: to Janet Mills, but one could argue that in three
34:56
Speaker 1: of the most important and Mary Patola in Alaska. And
34:59
Speaker 1: the question is does he get credit for Tallo Rico?
35:01
Speaker 1: I think he does. He seemed to be on the
35:03
Speaker 1: side of those consultant worlds that was trying to get
35:05
Speaker 1: tall Rico in there. But they're these huge primaries. There's
35:10
Speaker 1: basically one faction in the Senate wanting to see the
35:13
Speaker 1: grand Platiners of the world win, wanting to see a
35:15
Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of Zach Walls win in Iowa
35:18
Speaker 1: instead of Schumer's pick of Josh Turek. And of course
35:22
Speaker 1: you have the Michigan primary that is a three way
35:26
Speaker 1: race between sort of strong establishment, one that straddles progressive
35:31
Speaker 1: in establishment, and one that is super progressive. And you
35:36
Speaker 1: do have a group of Senators that are basically running
35:38
Speaker 1: against Schumer's candidates and endorsing whoever Schumer's not for they
35:43
Speaker 1: seem to be endorsing and vice versa on that front.
35:47
Speaker 1: But the fact that this went public and apparently one
35:51
Speaker 1: of the beefs and I got to share with you
35:53
Speaker 1: this one anecdote because the story itself and the way
35:58
Speaker 1: Schumer responds to the story Wall Street Journal piece, I
36:02
Speaker 1: think is a tell that he is both slightly out
36:07
Speaker 1: of touch, a bit stubborn about this and is probably
36:11
Speaker 1: going to fight and is not going to roll over here.
36:14
Speaker 1: But we shall see. Oh one other this was really telling.
36:23
Speaker 1: According to the Wall Street Journal story about Truman, Schruman
36:26
Speaker 1: agreed to do an interview with here almost as a
36:27
Speaker 1: way to sort of push back on this narrative that
36:30
Speaker 1: he was two week the lead. The journal points out
36:34
Speaker 1: a number of Democratic senators provided the Wall Street Journal
36:36
Speaker 1: with interviews or statements in support of the leader. They
36:38
Speaker 1: included Shatz, Catherine Cortes, Mastow, Sheldon Whitehouse, Kirsten Jillibrand she's
36:44
Speaker 1: the current DFCC chair, Chris Coons, and Tim Kane. Right,
36:49
Speaker 1: those are sort of everybody's been there essentially more than
36:54
Speaker 1: a term. When you look at these folks, right, these
36:56
Speaker 1: are this is what you would expect that it would
36:58
Speaker 1: be more of the establishment types, more that have always
37:01
Speaker 1: run more center left campaigns. Catherine Cortez, all of these folks.
37:06
Speaker 1: You know, I'm old enough to remember when Kirsten Jillibrand
37:08
Speaker 1: represented an upstate New York seat and wanted a pretty
37:12
Speaker 1: good NRA rating. Chris Coons very middle of the road
37:15
Speaker 1: kind of guy in Delaware, always involved with any bipartisan talks,
37:18
Speaker 1: and Tim Kaine has always straddled that fence as well.
37:23
Speaker 1: So it's notable who would put their name on the record,
37:27
Speaker 1: And it's of course notable who chose not to do that. Right,
37:31
Speaker 1: You didn't see some others because there's quite a few senators.
37:34
Speaker 1: What Tumor's problem is, he is he seems to be
37:40
Speaker 1: at that moment where he's so paranoid of leaks and
37:43
Speaker 1: he doesn't know who to trust, that he doesn't share
37:46
Speaker 1: information enough, and of course that kisses people off. This
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Speaker 1: in fact, they share an anecdote. And I'm going to
39:46
Speaker 1: talk about this anecdote here because it leads into an
39:50
Speaker 1: amazing Trump esque Chuck Schumer moment. So here it is.
39:58
Speaker 1: I'm going straight from the article here. Tensions among Senate
40:01
Speaker 1: Democrats over Schumer style reached a tipping point during the
40:04
Speaker 1: lengthy government shutdown last fall. In a closed door meeting
40:07
Speaker 1: with top Senate Democrats the day after the party's November
40:10
Speaker 1: election wins. You'll remember, right, we're in the middle of
40:13
Speaker 1: the shutdown. Democrats have a huge November twenty twenty five, right,
40:16
Speaker 1: doubled digic victories in Virginia, New Jersey just killed it everywhere. Right,
40:22
Speaker 1: The mood wasn't celebratory in this closed door meeting with
40:25
Speaker 1: top Senate Democrats why. Senators Jeff Merkley and Maggie Hassen
40:29
Speaker 1: were arguing over whether the victories gave Democrats new reason
40:33
Speaker 1: to continue the shutdown their leverage for extending healthcare subsidies.
40:37
Speaker 1: They believe the election was a chance to essentially double down.
40:41
Speaker 1: When Senator Gary Peters, who's the retiring senator from Michigan,
40:45
Speaker 1: that's the big Michigan primary is the open seat that
40:49
Speaker 1: is trying to replace him, he stepped into note that
40:52
Speaker 1: a breakaway group of Democrats had already initiated a quote
40:55
Speaker 1: secret deal with Republicans to end the shutdown. This was
40:58
Speaker 1: according to people in the meeting. Apparently. Elizabeth Warren then replies,
41:02
Speaker 1: who's also in this meeting with Merkley and Hassan? Wait,
41:07
Speaker 1: they didn't negotiate anything. And then she apparently turns to Schumer,
41:13
Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Warren says, Chuck, you told me no one
41:15
Speaker 1: was negotiating. Then the leader of this breakaway centrist group
41:20
Speaker 1: of Democrats that did negotiate with the Republicans, Jeanie Shaheen, who,
41:24
Speaker 1: of course she's retiring from the new Ampshore open seat.
41:27
Speaker 1: She responds that they had kept the leader meeting Chuck
41:31
Speaker 1: Schumer a breast of the developments. Warren, one of the
41:35
Speaker 1: Senate you know, one of the folks on the side
41:36
Speaker 1: of fighting much harder here and has been pretty critical
41:39
Speaker 1: of Schumer responded, well, that's not what Chuck told me.
41:44
Speaker 1: And then Murkley admits in an interview with the Journal
41:47
Speaker 1: that he was in shock when he heard that this
41:49
Speaker 1: group was going to strike a deal. He goes, it
41:54
Speaker 1: was all news to him. Now they eventually have a
41:57
Speaker 1: all Democratic senator meeting, and Merkley said he thought eventually
42:01
Speaker 1: Schumer heard him, but it was clear that Schumer wasn't
42:09
Speaker 1: telling everybody what was happening with right and the incident,
42:16
Speaker 1: as the Journal points out, was seen as a quote
42:18
Speaker 1: prime example of the leader trying to appease all sides
42:21
Speaker 1: by telling senators what they want to hear. And apparently
42:26
Speaker 1: some current and former Senate staffers are calling it getting shumed,
42:31
Speaker 1: meaning they thought they had one, they thought they knew
42:34
Speaker 1: what was happening, and then all of a sudden, out
42:36
Speaker 1: of nowhere, Schumer's working with some other entity, has a deal.
42:40
Speaker 1: Stories over. Oh my god, I've been shoomed. Right now,
42:44
Speaker 1: here's my favorite part of this article. And again, maybe
42:48
Speaker 1: you have to be me covering Schumer for nearly thirty
42:52
Speaker 1: years to appreciate this moment. But any of you, and
42:55
Speaker 1: I know a bunch of you listening actually used to
42:57
Speaker 1: work for Schumer, and I think you will. Guys will
42:59
Speaker 1: laugh at this due Schumer, you know again he does this.
43:04
Speaker 1: Interview with the Journal, Schumer said he wasn't familiar with
43:07
Speaker 1: the current usage of the term getting shoomed, but then
43:12
Speaker 1: Schumer offers up to the journal reporters the following anecdote.
43:17
Speaker 1: He said, actually getting shumed originated in New York and
43:22
Speaker 1: it used to refer to Schumer's rush to be the
43:25
Speaker 1: first to show up at a press conference to tout
43:27
Speaker 1: a new issue to reporters, says Schumer. To the reporters,
43:33
Speaker 1: I would be ahead of everybody else. Someone would be
43:35
Speaker 1: thinking of something, but I'd be out there with a
43:37
Speaker 1: press conference. I understand what Schumer was up to, right,
43:45
Speaker 1: But if you want to this is like to me,
43:48
Speaker 1: this is the moment. This is sometimes you got to
43:50
Speaker 1: understand subtext when you read these stories. Look the reporters
43:53
Speaker 1: are they include this anecdote in here for obvious reasons.
43:58
Speaker 1: They're like going, yeah, he is not fully plugged in
44:04
Speaker 1: to what people really think of him in the Senate.
44:09
Speaker 1: He is got there is a loss of trust, and
44:13
Speaker 1: he is sort of in his own bubble here, right,
44:16
Speaker 1: And there's still a lack of self awareness. Even in
44:19
Speaker 1: this piece you offer up an alternative definition of getting
44:24
Speaker 1: shumed because he it's very trumpesque, right. Let me tell
44:27
Speaker 1: you when it was a positive? Is that what this
44:30
Speaker 1: piece is about at the moment, really, Oh, that you're
44:33
Speaker 1: really smart about getting out in front of some viral
44:35
Speaker 1: issue just as it's going viral, so it looks like
44:37
Speaker 1: you're on top of things. These are these famous Sunday
44:40
Speaker 1: press conferences back when Schumer was a back bench House
44:42
Speaker 1: member then a back bench senator, and this is the
44:46
Speaker 1: you know, this is the part of Schumer when he
44:48
Speaker 1: had his fastball. And I think now it's clear he
44:53
Speaker 1: is absolutely constantly nervous about you know, he's looking over
44:58
Speaker 1: his left shoulder at AOC. He's looking over shoulder apparently
45:01
Speaker 1: now at Chris van Holland and Brian Shatz, and you know,
45:04
Speaker 1: now he's orchestrated. He's hoping to at least and here'd
45:07
Speaker 1: be my message to Senator Schumer and anybody that wants
45:09
Speaker 1: to talk to him and just say, look, you've been
45:11
Speaker 1: an incredibly successful Democratic leader. He really has. You know,
45:15
Speaker 1: he is a he is not a policy guy. He's
45:17
Speaker 1: a politics guy. And he you know, starting with two
45:21
Speaker 1: thousand and six, frankly, starting with his own politics. I mean,
45:24
Speaker 1: he out maneuvered and outsmarted everybody in his ninety eight
45:27
Speaker 1: Senate race. You know, he won that race by basically
45:30
Speaker 1: being the only guy to campaign in Buffalo before anybody
45:33
Speaker 1: else was doing it, and then worked his way down.
45:35
Speaker 1: It was brilliant strategy. Sort of was the first to
45:39
Speaker 1: come up with the ten second ad before ten second
45:41
Speaker 1: ads were harder to make happen. But he stretched his money.
45:44
Speaker 1: I mean, look, it is it is. It is like
45:49
Speaker 1: watching Willie May's play with the Mets. You're like, I
45:52
Speaker 1: don't want to see him field fly balls, right, you don't.
45:55
Speaker 1: You don't want to see it, right, you don't want
45:57
Speaker 1: to see Mickey Mantle strike out. And I think that
46:01
Speaker 1: Schumor is at this moment where he's just look, part
46:06
Speaker 1: of it is there's nothing he can do about it.
46:08
Speaker 1: He is sort of the last them standing from the
46:10
Speaker 1: previous era, right, so he is the stand in for
46:14
Speaker 1: biden frustrations about Biden. He's the stand in for Clinton.
46:18
Speaker 1: Frustrations about Clinton, Right, he's just the stand in for
46:21
Speaker 1: the establishment because he's the most familiar face left. So
46:24
Speaker 1: some of this is not about him and his decision making.
46:27
Speaker 1: Some of this is just simply it's about that wing
46:30
Speaker 1: of the party, right, the sort of what you want
46:32
Speaker 1: to call it, the pragmatic wing. But if he cares
46:37
Speaker 1: about trying, and look, he has a theory of the case, right,
46:40
Speaker 1: he has a theory of the case. And the type
46:42
Speaker 1: of candidates he nominates, he's you know, and who he's
46:45
Speaker 1: encouraging to run. Right, he wants a Josh Turreck to
46:47
Speaker 1: be the nominee in Iowa rather than is Zach Wall.
46:50
Speaker 1: Zach Walls is a bit more progressive. I think you
46:54
Speaker 1: can make the case. It is interesting the NRSC and
46:56
Speaker 1: Republicans want the progressive to win too. They're all excited
47:01
Speaker 1: about that. And you know, Schumer's touting another candidate. Now,
47:05
Speaker 1: progressive activists get frustrated that he wants to put his
47:08
Speaker 1: thumb on the scale in the primary. Well guess what,
47:11
Speaker 1: so does Bernie Sanders want to put his thumb on
47:12
Speaker 1: the scale in the primary. So you know, you know,
47:15
Speaker 1: people that get upset that somebody's playing favorites are really
47:19
Speaker 1: upset that they're not the ones being favored, if that
47:24
Speaker 1: makes sense. Meaning most people complain that they're not getting
47:27
Speaker 1: the extra help or the extra attention, they're actually not
47:31
Speaker 1: arguing for fairness. But let's set that aside. If Schumer
47:36
Speaker 1: cares about that wing of the party, he cannot be
47:39
Speaker 1: seen as essentially fighting the progressives and then losing the
47:44
Speaker 1: best way for him to beat the Progressives is to
47:46
Speaker 1: stand down and hand and then he has more say
47:51
Speaker 1: and who replaces him and he might be able to preserve.
47:55
Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of like McConnell, you know, had
47:58
Speaker 1: he pushed the envelope more than he risked losing to
48:01
Speaker 1: a Rick Scott and then suddenly that wing of the
48:03
Speaker 1: party is running the Senate Republican Conference instead he put
48:08
Speaker 1: himself in it. He got out just in time where
48:10
Speaker 1: he knew essentially he can hand the reins over to Jonathan.
48:14
Speaker 1: And that's the situation Schumer's in right now. He's got
48:17
Speaker 1: to make and this is not going to be easy
48:18
Speaker 1: for him. Schumer has had success charting his own path,
48:24
Speaker 1: and he has kind of at times bulldozed his way
48:27
Speaker 1: and he has overcome skepticism, whether it's from mainstream media, Washington,
48:34
Speaker 1: the Midwest, you name it. You know, you talk to
48:39
Speaker 1: a Claire mccaskell or John Tester and they will tell
48:41
Speaker 1: you Schumer always understood their electorates almost as well as
48:45
Speaker 1: they did. I mean, he in this stuff. You know,
48:49
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to use this as a way to
48:51
Speaker 1: beat up on Schumer, but it is pretty clear it
48:55
Speaker 1: is he has passed. It is it is time to
48:57
Speaker 1: move on. And if he wants more say in how
49:03
Speaker 1: this works and if he wants to control this process,
49:06
Speaker 1: he probably only has a couple more months before he
49:10
Speaker 1: sort of loses that ability to do it. And I
49:14
Speaker 1: think I think every you could sort of see, you know, obviously,
49:19
Speaker 1: I mean, it would be a fool's air. And if
49:21
Speaker 1: somebody tried to overthrow Schumer, now there's really not a
49:25
Speaker 1: mechanism the way the Senate works and it and it
49:27
Speaker 1: would blow up in their face. But it is clear
49:31
Speaker 1: that you have a chunk of senators worry that Schumer's
49:34
Speaker 1: waiting to see that if they get the majority, he's
49:36
Speaker 1: going to want it. And that's where this you know,
49:40
Speaker 1: you don't want to begin the last thing you want
49:44
Speaker 1: to do if you're the Democrats, is right now there
49:47
Speaker 1: is a bunch of infighting. Well in some ways, let
49:50
Speaker 1: the infighting happen now, because if you're infighting after the elections,
49:55
Speaker 1: after you succeed, then it looks worse. Take Abigail Spamberger
49:59
Speaker 1: right is starting in I think this has been a
50:02
Speaker 1: nightmare way for her to start. She tried, she's there's
50:06
Speaker 1: an interview on the Washington Post this week. You know
50:10
Speaker 1: she ran as a bit you know, said basically like, look,
50:13
Speaker 1: she's a Democrat, but she went a partisan right. That
50:16
Speaker 1: was the vibe she gave off that she was a pragmatist.
50:20
Speaker 1: And yet what does she have to do. She starts
50:23
Speaker 1: her lubernatorial term and she only gets one having to
50:29
Speaker 1: make the most political fight any governor would have to do,
50:32
Speaker 1: which is this which is pushed for this ridiculous redistricting amendment.
50:37
Speaker 1: And I say it's ridiculous because it runs counter to
50:41
Speaker 1: everything Abigail Spamburger stands for. Right, the original concept was
50:45
Speaker 1: fairness and maps to take politics out of things. That
50:48
Speaker 1: is that. That is the Abigail span Burger platform, if
50:57
Speaker 1: you will, that she ran on. It's been sort of
51:00
Speaker 1: her political identity from the very beginning once she ran
51:02
Speaker 1: for Congress, and she's having to make the case, just
51:06
Speaker 1: like watching Barack Obama use his political capital to sell
51:12
Speaker 1: what they're doing, that this is a way to make
51:13
Speaker 1: it more fair compared to Texas, leaving out the part
51:16
Speaker 1: that it makes it incredibly unfair essentially to all voters
51:20
Speaker 1: in Virginia. Right, there is no good argument you can
51:23
Speaker 1: come up with to me to give me to say
51:27
Speaker 1: that this is a good idea, because I would argue
51:30
Speaker 1: you actually want if Republicans win competitive districts, then you're
51:34
Speaker 1: more likely to have a Republican who's more likely to
51:37
Speaker 1: buck the crazy Maga wing, and it actually is healthier
51:41
Speaker 1: for democracy if you have it in that way. So
51:44
Speaker 1: the point being as fair districts will get you a
51:46
Speaker 1: better quality member of Congress. Period. When you have unfair
51:50
Speaker 1: districts that are overly partisan, then you get partisan hacks,
51:53
Speaker 1: whether they're on the left or the right, because all
51:55
Speaker 1: you have to worry about is winning a primary. And
51:58
Speaker 1: then you have this absurdity where you know where literally
52:03
Speaker 1: you know Don Bayer is currently my congressman, and the
52:07
Speaker 1: new map you will not because Arlington is going to
52:08
Speaker 1: get divided into two and and essentially South Arlington is
52:13
Speaker 1: going to be in Buyer's district, and it's going to
52:15
Speaker 1: go all the way to the Northern Neck, Okay, which
52:17
Speaker 1: is which is sort of on the the the where
52:21
Speaker 1: the Bay Chesapeake Bay and Atlantic Ocean and the and
52:25
Speaker 1: the Northern Neck and the River down they are all
52:28
Speaker 1: sort of come in the one. As you can see.
52:32
Speaker 1: I'm not that familiar with that area. I've been there
52:34
Speaker 1: a few times. It is uh, if we were a
52:39
Speaker 1: slightly shorter drive, that would be an ideal place to
52:42
Speaker 1: have a vacation home. And I know some people who do.
52:44
Speaker 1: It's it's it's I've chosen to I've chosen the state
52:49
Speaker 1: of Florida for mine. But it is a great place.
52:52
Speaker 1: I remember why Off and I looked out there. We
52:53
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, we liked it a lot. But it is
52:56
Speaker 1: almost nothing in common with Arlington, and yet those communities
52:59
Speaker 1: are all going to be the same district. You know,
53:03
Speaker 1: It's basically Virginia is going to turn into this weird
53:05
Speaker 1: sort of I guess you could call it like a
53:09
Speaker 1: half octopus, where the body is all Northern Virginia and
53:13
Speaker 1: then all of the districts you know, a tentacle, a
53:16
Speaker 1: tentacle to the west, a technical to the southwest, a
53:20
Speaker 1: technical due south, et cetera, et cetera. And then and
53:23
Speaker 1: then there's this blob you know that will be the
53:25
Speaker 1: one Republican district. It's probably going to pass, but I
53:30
Speaker 1: don't think this is going to pass like California. And
53:32
Speaker 1: you could just hear Spamberger in this interview, and you know,
53:38
Speaker 1: she's you know, she has been pushing back on the
53:41
Speaker 1: Democratic legislature on some business taxes and some things like that.
53:46
Speaker 1: So she's still trying to sort of keep her pro
53:49
Speaker 1: business credentials, which in you know, sort of basically in
53:53
Speaker 1: line with what Tim how Tim Kaine was as governor
53:55
Speaker 1: at Mark Warner was his governor of Terry McAuliffe. Like
53:57
Speaker 1: it's a it's not unique. You know, the Democratic governors
54:00
Speaker 1: of the twenty first century in Virginia have all been
54:02
Speaker 1: have all wanted to make sure they Virginia stays in
54:06
Speaker 1: the top five places to do business in the CNBC rankings,
54:09
Speaker 1: which they have for pretty much all of the twenty
54:11
Speaker 1: first century. So but she's she is now having to
54:17
Speaker 1: be the face of the Her and Barack Obama are
54:20
Speaker 1: having to be the face of this ad campaign for redistricting.
54:23
Speaker 1: And you know, I'll tell you this. Like I said,
54:27
Speaker 1: I think they win, but I think the Democrats are
54:31
Speaker 1: giving up something here that they're going to wish they
54:33
Speaker 1: have back. And I do think one reminder I'm going
54:36
Speaker 1: to leave you with, and then we're going to go
54:37
Speaker 1: into my conversation with Johnny O. The base of the
54:41
Speaker 1: Republican Party is larger than the base of the Democratic Party.
54:44
Speaker 1: And what does that mean. Democrats need more moderates to
54:46
Speaker 1: get to fifty percent. The good news for Democrats is
54:50
Speaker 1: a majority of moderates lean left on some social issues
54:54
Speaker 1: and they want they're more uncomfortable siding with the Republicans
54:58
Speaker 1: and the Democrats liberal modern conservative. This is what I'm
55:01
Speaker 1: referring to when I say, when you have the idea
55:03
Speaker 1: upholling ideological service. But those moderates sort of like actually
55:09
Speaker 1: believe you know, they've been siding with the Democrats because
55:12
Speaker 1: they're the pragmatic ones, they are the normal ones, and
55:14
Speaker 1: they start behaving no, you know, ends justifies the means
55:19
Speaker 1: type of politics. I think the Democrats are endangering that
55:23
Speaker 1: part of their brand right now. Look, they're using two
55:28
Speaker 1: people who I think plenty of people in the center
55:32
Speaker 1: politically in this country see as pragmatists, Barack Obama, Abigail Spamber,
55:39
Speaker 1: but they're advocating for something that's frankly indefensible, and it
55:47
Speaker 1: just is going to chip away. It doesn't happen overnight.
55:50
Speaker 1: But you know, Democrats have to realize they're thirty to
55:54
Speaker 1: zero in these special election. Things are going great for
55:56
Speaker 1: them on paper, They're on track to win the House
55:59
Speaker 1: with the d majority, and frankly, it's probably getting close
56:03
Speaker 1: to a coin flip for Senate control because I also
56:07
Speaker 1: believe Lisa Murkowski, if it's fifty to fifty, she's gonna flip.
56:12
Speaker 1: And again, I have no other evidence. I'm not you know,
56:15
Speaker 1: I'm no inside knowledge in this. I'm just that's a
56:19
Speaker 1: tea leaf. Okay, I am. I am reading a tea
56:23
Speaker 1: leaf incredibly carefully in this one. But I'm pretty confident
56:25
Speaker 1: of it, especially if Mary Patillo wins that sentence. I
56:29
Speaker 1: think it's a if that's it, it's almost a given
56:31
Speaker 1: that Rokowski hands the Democrats the Senate majority. Couldn't be
56:39
Speaker 1: going swimmingly. And yet what did we see in that
56:42
Speaker 1: Marquette Polarlier this week? The Democratic brand had a lower
56:45
Speaker 1: favorable rating than the Republican Party and mega. So that's
56:55
Speaker 1: you know, and this that bill will come to in
56:57
Speaker 1: twenty eight if they're not careful. But how twenty six goes,
57:01
Speaker 1: how they govern, how they resolve these internal fights, how
57:06
Speaker 1: messy does this get right? All of this is going
57:10
Speaker 1: to be determined. I think in the next three to
57:11
Speaker 1: six months. All right, we're gonna sneak in a break
57:14
Speaker 1: and when we come back. My conversation with Johnny oh
57:16
Speaker 1: and what could be the twenty eighth Amendment to the
57:19
Speaker 1: US Constitution. So a few months, a few weeks back,
57:32
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time talking to you guys
57:34
Speaker 1: here in these and in fact I did a substeck
57:37
Speaker 1: about this, and I said, you know what, the age
57:38
Speaker 1: of reform is coming, and the question was just sort
57:41
Speaker 1: of when it would begin. And I used the bipartisan endorsement.
57:48
Speaker 1: The first Republican to endorse my next guest bill, a
57:51
Speaker 1: constitutional amendment that he is proposing. It's a Democratic Congressman,
57:56
Speaker 1: Johnny Oldchesky from Baltimore, and it was Don Bacon became
58:02
Speaker 1: the first Republican to sign on. And it's essentially a
58:05
Speaker 1: pardon nullification constitutional amendment. It uses in some ways the
58:10
Speaker 1: same structure of a congressional override of a presidential veto.
58:16
Speaker 1: It's very similar in its structure. But it was I
58:20
Speaker 1: saw it as an opportunity because it was this was
58:22
Speaker 1: done in such a way that it didn't feel specifically
58:26
Speaker 1: targeted to one president. We know we've had abuses of
58:29
Speaker 1: the pardon power, but by both this one and the
58:33
Speaker 1: previous one, and you could argue multiple presidents going forward,
58:36
Speaker 1: going backward. And there are some argue it's that the
58:40
Speaker 1: pardon clause in our constitution is the biggest you might say,
58:46
Speaker 1: loophole there is between a small D democracy and a
58:49
Speaker 1: small A authoritarian regime. And so with that, I thought
58:54
Speaker 1: it'd be nice to hear from the author of this
58:56
Speaker 1: amendment himself, Congressman Johnny O. He says, we can call
59:00
Speaker 1: him Johnny Oh, we'll find out if I'm going to
59:03
Speaker 1: have to start having a you know, use the code.
59:05
Speaker 1: My friend Tony Kornheiser, Congressman, loves Johnny O polo shirts
59:09
Speaker 1: and they advertise on his So maybe at this point
59:12
Speaker 1: people will think it's you advertising.
59:14
Speaker 2: It's the number one gift I get when I talk
59:16
Speaker 2: to chambers of congresces, et cetera. Yeah, it's.
59:21
Speaker 1: You know, they have that third button right that that's
59:23
Speaker 1: what what's what guys like it's like that it's a
59:25
Speaker 1: three button polo rather than sometimes the two button polo.
59:29
Speaker 1: So there is something about you know, it is a.
59:31
Speaker 2: Nice print, a nice constitutional amendment.
59:34
Speaker 1: Here. There you go. It's a mighty fine constitution you have.
59:37
Speaker 1: There be ashamed, mighty find republic you have. There be
59:39
Speaker 1: shame if we lose it. All right, Look, I want
59:41
Speaker 1: to bring you on on this, but look we'll talk.
59:42
Speaker 1: I want to talk a lot about sort of how
59:46
Speaker 1: to make congressman Congress functional again. But this is an
59:50
Speaker 1: important step because constitutional You know, I am one of
59:54
Speaker 1: the reasons I'm long term optimistic even if I'm short
59:57
Speaker 1: term pessimistic about the direction of our republic is that
1:00:00
Speaker 1: when we've had moments like this before, we've used the
1:00:03
Speaker 1: tools in our toolbox. We haven't done it very often.
1:00:06
Speaker 1: We need to use them more, but we don't. We're
1:00:08
Speaker 1: in and around the Civil War we did, in and
1:00:10
Speaker 1: around Teddy Roosevelt, throughout the r we did, and I
1:00:14
Speaker 1: think we're in one of those periods again, and you
1:00:16
Speaker 1: update your constitutions and the same reason why you put
1:00:19
Speaker 1: a new roof on your house. You know it Sometimes
1:00:22
Speaker 1: you know you realize, oh, it's kind of an old
1:00:24
Speaker 1: structure that's going to have leaks. We kind of need
1:00:26
Speaker 1: to put new technology in here. And so the updating
1:00:29
Speaker 1: of the Constitution I think is necessary. But I'm curious
1:00:33
Speaker 1: where are we Do you have more than Don Bacon
1:00:35
Speaker 1: on board the part an amendment? And since I've been
1:00:38
Speaker 1: rambling on here, am I missing a piece of the
1:00:42
Speaker 1: amendment that you think is important for my listeners and
1:00:44
Speaker 1: viewers to know.
1:00:46
Speaker 2: I think you pretty much hit it. We have a
1:00:49
Speaker 2: part of it where the petitioning for review is a
1:00:52
Speaker 2: pretty narrow approach. Twenty members of the House, five members
1:00:57
Speaker 2: of the Senate can petition for that vote, and so
1:01:00
Speaker 2: part of it is just by having the ability to
1:01:02
Speaker 2: review it. Our hope is that presidents will think twice
1:01:05
Speaker 2: before issuing these egregious pardons. But yeah, it is very
1:01:09
Speaker 2: much modeled after a veto override, which I thought it
1:01:12
Speaker 2: was a modest but important step forward to say, some
1:01:15
Speaker 2: of these pardons that really are beyond the pale, especially
1:01:19
Speaker 2: under this president, are in need of that kind of reform,
1:01:22
Speaker 2: and so I appreciate don stepping on and really stepping
1:01:25
Speaker 2: into this in a moment where we're so polarized. But
1:01:28
Speaker 2: that's why we structured that way, and I think that
1:01:31
Speaker 2: as a new member of Congress, having someone who's a
1:01:33
Speaker 2: veteran who really I think understands the institution and why
1:01:37
Speaker 2: this is important, we are now actually this week we're
1:01:41
Speaker 2: going to be opening up for co sponsors, and so
1:01:43
Speaker 2: we're hoping to see Democrats and Republicans alike join. I
1:01:46
Speaker 2: know it's going to be harder because I think people
1:01:48
Speaker 2: view it as going after the President Trump and in
1:01:51
Speaker 2: some ways like his have been especially worse in my opinion,
1:01:54
Speaker 2: But as you point.
1:01:56
Speaker 1: Out, I think the preemptive partons were terrible. I mean,
1:02:00
Speaker 1: there's really no defending the preemp tove partments and what
1:02:03
Speaker 1: he did. And I might have empathy for Tony Fauci
1:02:08
Speaker 1: on a personal level, Lis Chainey in a personal level,
1:02:10
Speaker 1: there's no doubt there could be attempts. But what really
1:02:14
Speaker 1: set me off about those pardons were the where they
1:02:17
Speaker 1: get out of jail free cards for his family members.
1:02:19
Speaker 1: That felt like, what are you doing to prevent what
1:02:22
Speaker 1: you think the next president is going to do? You
1:02:24
Speaker 1: just gave him precedent to do it with his own family, and.
1:02:29
Speaker 2: I suspect he will and.
1:02:32
Speaker 1: What will he say when he does it?
1:02:34
Speaker 2: Just like there, that's right, absolutely, And I think this
1:02:39
Speaker 2: is part of the larger issue. This is one of
1:02:41
Speaker 2: many places where I think Americans are so frustrated with
1:02:45
Speaker 2: all of us because the wealthy and the well connected
1:02:48
Speaker 2: and those who are in power or are privileged or
1:02:50
Speaker 2: getting away with you know, literally crimes. I don't want
1:02:55
Speaker 2: to say murder, but like they're getting away with pretty
1:02:56
Speaker 2: serious crimes. They're lining their pockets, and everybody else is
1:03:00
Speaker 2: getting crushed. And so I think it's pastime, especially in
1:03:04
Speaker 2: this space, to look at the Constitution and say this
1:03:08
Speaker 2: is that you can drive a truck through this loophole.
1:03:10
Speaker 2: I like to think that our founders had some better sense,
1:03:13
Speaker 2: that the better angels of those who were presidents would
1:03:15
Speaker 2: not have abused it in these ways.
1:03:16
Speaker 1: But here we are.
1:03:18
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm a Democrat who can say that
1:03:21
Speaker 2: presidents Clinton others also abused this, whether it was Clinton's
1:03:25
Speaker 2: half brother.
1:03:27
Speaker 1: Do you do any research on this as to why,
1:03:29
Speaker 1: I mean, what are my favorite I find the pardon
1:03:34
Speaker 1: I inclusion in the Constitution one of the biggest head scratchers,
1:03:39
Speaker 1: like if I could go into a time machine, because
1:03:42
Speaker 1: here's a group of men, and it was obviously we
1:03:45
Speaker 1: know it was all men who were so concerned about
1:03:48
Speaker 1: a monarchy and about preventing a monarch as the leader
1:03:52
Speaker 1: of our country that they wrote this pretty incredible document
1:03:57
Speaker 1: that has stood the test of time but created a
1:04:01
Speaker 1: loophole right out of a monarchy. And it is one
1:04:05
Speaker 1: of those how the heck did this get into the
1:04:09
Speaker 1: Constitution in the first place.
1:04:12
Speaker 2: It's pretty wild considering all the checks and balances that
1:04:14
Speaker 2: are otherwise written into the Constitution. I mean, they were
1:04:17
Speaker 2: so deliberate about, to your point, preventing a return of
1:04:21
Speaker 2: the monarchy, and I think that they would be surprised
1:04:25
Speaker 2: by the amount of presidential authority being exhibited today. Generally,
1:04:29
Speaker 2: I think that the inclinations of those founding fathers were
1:04:33
Speaker 2: actually have as strong legislative branch that could sort of
1:04:36
Speaker 2: help dictate and set the pace for our governance. So
1:04:42
Speaker 2: I did not go that far back in terms of
1:04:44
Speaker 2: my history on the pardon, but I was intrigued to
1:04:49
Speaker 2: learn that there actually was a very similar amendment put
1:04:53
Speaker 2: forward following the pardon of Richard Nixon.
1:04:57
Speaker 1: Almost exactly the same in terms of a two third
1:04:59
Speaker 1: happened to it. It's stalled, obviously, but like why did
1:05:04
Speaker 1: you get no? But did you get some understanding? Who
1:05:07
Speaker 1: stalled it? Why did it stall? This was a not
1:05:11
Speaker 1: a super majority of Democratic majorities, but pretty close in
1:05:16
Speaker 1: seventy six and seventy eight.
1:05:19
Speaker 2: My sense is that it ended up not being bipartisan,
1:05:22
Speaker 2: which is why we were so deliberate starting this out.
1:05:25
Speaker 2: I didn't want to drop this, this legislation, this constitutional
1:05:29
Speaker 2: amendment until we had a Republican on board, and you know,
1:05:34
Speaker 2: having Don agreed to do this was a game changer.
1:05:36
Speaker 2: And it's really open doors to my Republican colleagues at
1:05:40
Speaker 2: a time where it's really hard for us to have
1:05:42
Speaker 2: conversations about anything. But I like to think that both
1:05:46
Speaker 2: he and I approach our work in a way where
1:05:48
Speaker 2: we may have pretty strong philosophical differences on any number
1:05:52
Speaker 2: of issues, but that we treat each other in our
1:05:54
Speaker 2: colleagues with some decency and respect, and that we can
1:05:57
Speaker 2: approach this issue with the seriousness that it deserves. And
1:06:01
Speaker 2: we're hopeful that, if not under this Congress, that in
1:06:05
Speaker 2: a subsequent Congress we actually do get this done. Because
1:06:07
Speaker 2: this is more than just I mean, I want to
1:06:09
Speaker 2: see this done beyond right.
1:06:11
Speaker 1: I assume your goal is you'll introduce this, assuming the
1:06:15
Speaker 1: voters of Baltimore send you back, that you will do
1:06:17
Speaker 1: this every Congress until you get us right.
1:06:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's one of many reforms that
1:06:22
Speaker 2: we should be looking at. I mean, the fact that
1:06:25
Speaker 2: we can't get a decent stockband passed, for example, is
1:06:29
Speaker 2: sort of beyond beyond me. These are things that are
1:06:32
Speaker 2: supported by eighty percent of the voters out there, Republicans
1:06:36
Speaker 2: and Democrats alike. And so I'm I'm a firm believer
1:06:40
Speaker 2: that one of the things we have to do, whether
1:06:42
Speaker 2: it's as Democrats or as members of Congress, is to
1:06:44
Speaker 2: have people believe in the institution again. And that's sort
1:06:48
Speaker 2: of holding ourselves to a higher standard and living that
1:06:50
Speaker 2: standard a little bit. So this is one place where
1:06:54
Speaker 2: I had a chance and step and lead and sort.
1:06:56
Speaker 1: Of it is a modest I mean, just be honest,
1:07:00
Speaker 1: it is a somewhat modest proposal. I you know, I
1:07:04
Speaker 1: don't know if one individual should have this kind of power,
1:07:08
Speaker 1: And whether you thought of creating a pardon board, you
1:07:12
Speaker 1: know that might be made up of the two most
1:07:15
Speaker 1: senior justices, the Attorney General, maybe the chairs of the
1:07:19
Speaker 1: Senate Judiciary and House Judiciary. Whatever you could create, we
1:07:22
Speaker 1: could just in the same way we have the Gang
1:07:24
Speaker 1: of Eight for Intel briefings that administration. You know, you
1:07:28
Speaker 1: could put together a pardon board where you would just
1:07:32
Speaker 1: like anything. I mean, I think plenty of states have
1:07:36
Speaker 1: taken the power away from the governor and created these
1:07:39
Speaker 1: boards with the governor having ultimate sort of thumbs up,
1:07:43
Speaker 1: thumbs down, sign off. Essentially they will sign off or
1:07:46
Speaker 1: they won't sign off. Did you think about adding that
1:07:52
Speaker 1: or were you fearing that was too complicated that it
1:07:55
Speaker 1: would sort of sort of take the eye off of
1:07:59
Speaker 1: the focal of the focal point here, which is just
1:08:01
Speaker 1: putting a check on his part and power.
1:08:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, part of it with simplicity and aligns with the
1:08:08
Speaker 2: check that already exists in Congress on other bills where
1:08:11
Speaker 2: there's a conflict between the two branches. And frankly, the
1:08:14
Speaker 2: other piece is most other boards. I guess it depends
1:08:18
Speaker 2: on the state. But you sort of get into the
1:08:20
Speaker 2: questions of does the governor or the president still have
1:08:22
Speaker 2: the ultimate authority? And if they do, for me, it
1:08:24
Speaker 2: doesn't actually address the problem. And if they don't over
1:08:28
Speaker 2: the board, then I think it could have been more
1:08:30
Speaker 2: challenging to get Republicans on board to this idea, especially
1:08:34
Speaker 2: under this trank. I'm going to be real, under this administration,
1:08:37
Speaker 2: taking away the decision making of the president is not
1:08:41
Speaker 2: something that is looked favorly by colleagues in the Republican
1:08:46
Speaker 2: Party right now.
1:08:47
Speaker 1: So when I think about the history of tough things
1:08:53
Speaker 1: that need bipartisan support to get through, it's amazing how
1:08:58
Speaker 1: often they happen. In the month of right, Don't Ask,
1:09:04
Speaker 1: Don't Tell was repealed the month after the twenty ten
1:09:08
Speaker 1: mid terms, And I remember, if somebody told you Democrats
1:09:14
Speaker 1: just got shellacked in the twenty ten mid terms, you
1:09:17
Speaker 1: know what they're successfully going to do next. They're going
1:09:19
Speaker 1: to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And nobody would have
1:09:22
Speaker 1: seen a company.
1:09:23
Speaker 2: Now.
1:09:23
Speaker 1: Was it paired up with solidifying the Bush tax cut? Yes, right,
1:09:29
Speaker 1: there was, certainly. You know, this is this is what
1:09:32
Speaker 1: what we expect Congress to do. Right, a little bit here,
1:09:34
Speaker 1: a little bit there, and that's that's how that's how
1:09:38
Speaker 1: compromise happens, and that's how progress happens. This screams December
1:09:43
Speaker 1: vote to me, meaning you know, if you could attach
1:09:48
Speaker 1: it to a must pass bill that you would see
1:09:52
Speaker 1: you know, do you have a strategy yet in your
1:09:53
Speaker 1: head of how you want to get this passed? Or
1:09:56
Speaker 1: right now? Is it? If you build it, they will
1:09:58
Speaker 1: come mindset.
1:10:00
Speaker 2: Thinking at this point, it's building the coalition and helping
1:10:03
Speaker 2: to tell the story about why this is important and
1:10:05
Speaker 2: why it's needed, why it's not a partisan a proposal.
1:10:11
Speaker 2: But I will say I actually I love the idea
1:10:15
Speaker 2: of this being a December gift to the American people.
1:10:20
Speaker 2: So I think that that's something that as we're you know,
1:10:23
Speaker 2: as we're having the conversations, people are will at least
1:10:25
Speaker 2: say that's a great idea. We have to we have
1:10:27
Speaker 2: to do something about.
1:10:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask this. Have you had anybody say, well,
1:10:30
Speaker 1: that's a terrible idea and here's why.
1:10:32
Speaker 2: No, if anything, it's I can't sign on that because right,
1:10:36
Speaker 2: and so I think to your point, right.
1:10:38
Speaker 1: Nobody's saying it's a bad idea. They're just deciding whether
1:10:41
Speaker 1: they want to put their name on it.
1:10:43
Speaker 2: Because what we've seen is indefensible. Right, you can't defend.
1:10:47
Speaker 1: Uh.
1:10:47
Speaker 2: Juan Orlando Hernandez part in hours. You can't defend the
1:10:52
Speaker 2: cz crypto colin artists who gave millions of dollars to
1:10:57
Speaker 2: the trunk cryptocurrency. You can't defend the pardon shopping industry,
1:11:02
Speaker 2: where people are now paying upwards of half a million
1:11:04
Speaker 2: a million dollars to seek a pardon from people closer.
1:11:07
Speaker 2: It's just it's indefensible. And so it's more a question
1:11:10
Speaker 2: of like, I don't I'm not worried about it passing
1:11:13
Speaker 2: if it's giving a vote. It's just the function of right,
1:11:15
Speaker 2: how do we find a legislative vehicle or a pathway
1:11:18
Speaker 2: to make sure.
1:11:19
Speaker 1: This actually gets I mean, look, the reason I look
1:11:23
Speaker 1: at December is sort of you're probably an opportune time
1:11:27
Speaker 1: is if the House is going to change hands and
1:11:30
Speaker 1: there is going to be some cleanup, they're going to
1:11:32
Speaker 1: want to get some votes out the door before they
1:11:34
Speaker 1: lose their majority, and they want to be able to
1:11:37
Speaker 1: say that that you know, you know, maybe that's when
1:11:39
Speaker 1: you get the stock band, right, That's where you could
1:11:42
Speaker 1: picture how those that have survived want to be able
1:11:46
Speaker 1: to say, hey, we hear you, we heard the message,
1:11:51
Speaker 1: and this is a way to respond. I mean, it's like, look,
1:11:54
Speaker 1: I'm just will confess. I just want to see I
1:11:58
Speaker 1: want to see this work. We need to prove that
1:12:03
Speaker 1: we can use constitutional amendment. I do think there's a
1:12:06
Speaker 1: lot of people who feel powerless at the moment that
1:12:09
Speaker 1: they look at the democracy and they think, uh, it's
1:12:13
Speaker 1: rigged and I have no say in this. Yep, the
1:12:16
Speaker 1: thought that a constitutional that Congress could propose a constitutional amendment,
1:12:20
Speaker 1: it passes the House and the Senate, and it then
1:12:24
Speaker 1: heads to the state legislatures. I mean it's it's you know,
1:12:27
Speaker 1: civics one oh one, right, Like, how how an amendment
1:12:30
Speaker 1: becomes comes to be would be a healthy exercise, because
1:12:34
Speaker 1: it's one of those things once we once we teach
1:12:40
Speaker 1: the country how to fish, I think they'll keep trying
1:12:43
Speaker 1: to fish. I just you know, it'd be.
1:12:46
Speaker 2: Nice to actually person in me. Yeah, it'd be nice
1:12:49
Speaker 2: to actually see what I told my kids in ninth
1:12:51
Speaker 2: grade government class when I was a teacher before I
1:12:52
Speaker 2: got into politics, that yes, this stuff actually works and
1:12:55
Speaker 2: this is how things happen. Because that has not been
1:12:58
Speaker 2: my experience the past.
1:12:59
Speaker 1: We really have passed a meaningful constitutional amendment, arguably since
1:13:04
Speaker 1: the Kennedy assassination with the twenty fifth Amendment, right, that
1:13:06
Speaker 1: that was a meaningful Oh we have what if the
1:13:09
Speaker 1: president had lived right? That to me was at least
1:13:12
Speaker 1: responding to something. Hey, we hadn't dealt with this, and
1:13:16
Speaker 1: perhaps we ought to deal with this scenario. We really
1:13:20
Speaker 1: haven't had a meaningful one since then and it worked. Well,
1:13:22
Speaker 1: that's close to sixty years now. I know we've had
1:13:25
Speaker 1: a few things on pay raise and lowering the age
1:13:29
Speaker 1: from twenty one eighteen, but to me, this wasn't a
1:13:32
Speaker 1: dealing with something that was structurally broken inside the Republic.
1:13:38
Speaker 2: Well, and to your point, I think people want to
1:13:41
Speaker 2: have something to believe in again and to say this
1:13:43
Speaker 2: is something that like transcends our partiesan politics, and that
1:13:48
Speaker 2: we can look at our structures and how we function
1:13:51
Speaker 2: as a nation. And I would love to give that
1:13:53
Speaker 2: hope to I think a very a weary nation right now.
1:14:07
Speaker 1: You said something else a few moments ago that I'm
1:14:10
Speaker 1: more skeptical frankly, that that is going to be easy
1:14:16
Speaker 1: to prove, and that is that you can prove to
1:14:21
Speaker 1: the country that Congress can you know, be a independent
1:14:23
Speaker 1: branch of government again. And you know, if Democrats get
1:14:29
Speaker 1: the House back, you know, some people are going to
1:14:32
Speaker 1: think they've got a mandate to go impeach Trump, and
1:14:35
Speaker 1: some are going to say they have a mandate to
1:14:37
Speaker 1: just simply oppose all things Trump, and some will say, no,
1:14:40
Speaker 1: we have a mandate to make Congress a functional branch. Again,
1:14:46
Speaker 1: the problem is, and you know, I'm just speaking reality.
1:14:48
Speaker 1: Your own caucus probably is divided in three like this now,
1:14:52
Speaker 1: which is, you know what what should be the focus?
1:14:56
Speaker 1: You know what it takes to create more more belief
1:15:01
Speaker 1: in the independence of the legislative branch, which might not
1:15:04
Speaker 1: be in the best interests of the hardcore base of
1:15:06
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. So how do you navigate that?
1:15:11
Speaker 2: The same way I think about all this is it's
1:15:14
Speaker 2: sort of the I approach politics as a Maslow's hierarchy
1:15:19
Speaker 2: and as a party and as a institution. We should
1:15:23
Speaker 2: be focusing on addressing people's base needs first, and as
1:15:26
Speaker 2: we were saying earlier, I feel like we've failed at
1:15:28
Speaker 2: that miserably. Cost of living was supposed to be the number.
1:15:32
Speaker 2: You know, day one, President Trump that he would address it.
1:15:35
Speaker 2: Any number of my colleagues and I ran on lowering
1:15:38
Speaker 2: the cost of living, and I always say, if people
1:15:42
Speaker 2: can't put food on the table and provide for a
1:15:45
Speaker 2: roof over their head. They don't really care about any
1:15:48
Speaker 2: of the other issues. And so I think that we
1:15:50
Speaker 2: can hold the president accountable and if there are impeachable offenses,
1:15:54
Speaker 2: we can look at pursuing that. But we have to
1:15:58
Speaker 2: also provide for Americans, whether it's a fair wage, whether
1:16:04
Speaker 2: it's addressing the healthcare crisis that is, you know, I
1:16:08
Speaker 2: think the average Marylander is paying over four thousand dollars
1:16:10
Speaker 2: more a year if they're still in the Affordable Care Act.
1:16:15
Speaker 2: But we have to also, I guess what I'm trying
1:16:17
Speaker 2: to is like prove that we can govern with integrity.
1:16:21
Speaker 2: And so whether it's the millions of files that still
1:16:25
Speaker 2: haven't been released on Epstein, whether it's the insider stock trading,
1:16:29
Speaker 2: the constitutional it's all these things that make people feel
1:16:32
Speaker 2: like from a policy perspective, they see people getting rich
1:16:36
Speaker 2: off of these debts on war in Iran. They see
1:16:40
Speaker 2: members of Congress trading stock and becoming millionaires while we're serving.
1:16:45
Speaker 2: And then we're cutting food benefits, we're making healthcare more expensive,
1:16:51
Speaker 2: we're not addressing the housing costs that people are experiencing.
1:16:55
Speaker 2: And so I think just delivering delivering on those base,
1:17:00
Speaker 2: it's doing so in a way that has some level
1:17:03
Speaker 2: of ethics and integrity. I think provides the space that
1:17:07
Speaker 2: if you were operating in good faith, you can then
1:17:09
Speaker 2: say we're and also do this impeachment or whatever else
1:17:12
Speaker 2: needs to happen as Democrats.
1:17:14
Speaker 1: Look, what you say seems pretty rational and normal, and
1:17:18
Speaker 1: yet that isn't what ends up being what people hear
1:17:23
Speaker 1: and they see coming out of Congress, right, I mean,
1:17:25
Speaker 1: it gets partisan quickly, and it's going to be even
1:17:29
Speaker 1: harder if you guys take control immediately. There's going to
1:17:32
Speaker 1: be a presidential campaign starting, and that is always even
1:17:36
Speaker 1: harder on, you know, especially if you were the majority
1:17:43
Speaker 1: in the House and you've got a bunch of people
1:17:47
Speaker 1: running around Iowa, South Carolina with Democrats next there. In
1:17:50
Speaker 1: the name going Washington's terrible and dysfunctional. Congress doesn't know
1:17:53
Speaker 1: what it's doing, you know it. It will like create
1:17:57
Speaker 1: this weird negative feedback loop that I think is going
1:17:59
Speaker 1: to be quite hard to navigate, you know. And oh,
1:18:02
Speaker 1: by the way, you're still dealing with potentially a runaway
1:18:05
Speaker 1: executive branch.
1:18:07
Speaker 2: I mean, right now, it is true, we are dysfunctional.
1:18:10
Speaker 2: This is one of the least productive congresses I think
1:18:12
Speaker 2: in the history of Congress. What I tell people is
1:18:18
Speaker 2: that at the end of the day, Congress is an
1:18:20
Speaker 2: institution that is made up of people. And maybe this
1:18:23
Speaker 2: is me being a little pollyannish as a new member
1:18:26
Speaker 2: and someone who hasn't been jaded by decades of service,
1:18:31
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I don't think
1:18:34
Speaker 2: any one person is beyond redemption. And so if you
1:18:36
Speaker 2: have an institution full of people, you have to believe
1:18:38
Speaker 2: that the institution isn't beyond redemption. It can also change.
1:18:42
Speaker 2: And so I commanded as someone who, like my predecessor,
1:18:45
Speaker 2: Doug Ruebersberger, was a local executive before coming here, and
1:18:49
Speaker 2: I had a split counsel. We had four Democrats, we
1:18:51
Speaker 2: had three Republicans. We passed gun safety legislation, we passed
1:18:56
Speaker 2: police reform, we passed balanced budgets, we both cut cut
1:18:59
Speaker 2: spending and and found new ways to raise revenue. I mean,
1:19:01
Speaker 2: it was just there's a way to do it.
1:19:04
Speaker 1: Well. It's funny, though, you're actually in the minority in
1:19:07
Speaker 1: the House, aren't you of former executives serving in the
1:19:11
Speaker 1: legislative branch, right, there's a few more executives in the Senate, right,
1:19:15
Speaker 1: a few more former.
1:19:16
Speaker 2: Governors but I think we'd be stronger if there were
1:19:18
Speaker 2: more of us, can't, right, I.
1:19:19
Speaker 1: Mean, I'm trying to think. You know, you've got uh uh,
1:19:24
Speaker 1: you've got Carlos Simenez, who is a former mayor of
1:19:26
Speaker 1: Miami Dade County. You've you've got your county exact and
1:19:31
Speaker 1: Riccardo Greg Stanton, that's right, Stanton, mayor mayor of Phoenix.
1:19:38
Speaker 2: It is.
1:19:39
Speaker 1: You know, It's funny. Anybody who spent time as a
1:19:42
Speaker 1: mayor right knows you can't be an idea log you know.
1:19:46
Speaker 1: And to me, I know, county exact, county judge in
1:19:49
Speaker 1: some states, you know, but it's essentially we call it
1:19:52
Speaker 1: our county mayor is a mayor in Florida. Here it's
1:19:55
Speaker 1: a county executive. I know Texas it's a judge, right,
1:19:59
Speaker 1: which gets really confused, but I mean it is. You know,
1:20:06
Speaker 1: it's easy to be a partisan when all you have
1:20:08
Speaker 1: to do is legislate, isn't it.
1:20:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, governing is hard and if you want to find
1:20:16
Speaker 2: I think the other challenge is this too, is these
1:20:19
Speaker 2: chambers constantly are shifting back and forth, and we can
1:20:23
Speaker 2: we can like we can complain this game where it's
1:20:25
Speaker 2: constantly we win and then we just sort of like
1:20:27
Speaker 2: bash away everything the last group did and then we
1:20:30
Speaker 2: build something and they take it.
1:20:32
Speaker 1: Well, look at HR I think about this, and I
1:20:34
Speaker 1: don't think you were there for HR one, but you
1:20:36
Speaker 1: had Democrats who had there like Christmas Tree wish lists
1:20:39
Speaker 1: when it came to what they how they would like
1:20:42
Speaker 1: to see our voting rules. Well, guess what. The Republicans
1:20:45
Speaker 1: came in and they have their like wish list of
1:20:48
Speaker 1: and neither one is reality based, right, They're both Some
1:20:53
Speaker 1: things seem reasonable and some things seem a bit aspirational
1:20:56
Speaker 1: right on EIP side. And whenever I here somebody said
1:21:00
Speaker 1: well it's all of it or nothing that, I'm like, oh,
1:21:02
Speaker 1: you're not interested in passing any legislation then, right. I mean,
1:21:05
Speaker 1: if Republicans were serious about voter ID, then they'd only
1:21:08
Speaker 1: make it about voter ID, and I promise you they'd
1:21:10
Speaker 1: probably get it passed. Yes, I think there's forty percent
1:21:13
Speaker 1: of the Democratic caucus. I would probably vote for vote ID,
1:21:16
Speaker 1: And once I got that eye, it might be all
1:21:17
Speaker 1: of everybody. You know, we built somehow of that stuff
1:21:20
Speaker 1: works yep. And if Democrats had just simply wanted to
1:21:24
Speaker 1: guarantee a minimum standard for early access to voting, and
1:21:27
Speaker 1: that's all they wanted. They would have gotten bipartisan support
1:21:30
Speaker 1: for that, right, you know, the inability somehow to you know,
1:21:35
Speaker 1: go find the slice of bread that everybody wants and
1:21:38
Speaker 1: let's let's share it.
1:21:40
Speaker 2: Well, those are the solutions that are sustainable, right, because
1:21:44
Speaker 2: you forge that compromise and that consensus and they don't
1:21:46
Speaker 2: ask forever. Necessarily, sometimes you'll have a big package that
1:21:50
Speaker 2: will undo it. But I think by and large, the
1:21:53
Speaker 2: decisions are better and they're more sustainable when you take
1:21:55
Speaker 2: that approach. There's another suit as opposed to President Trump
1:22:00
Speaker 2: voting today by mail in Florida.
1:22:04
Speaker 1: Rules for thee not for me. But here's another challenge
1:22:08
Speaker 1: I think you guys are going to have if you
1:22:09
Speaker 1: get control of the House. Is I take it at that,
1:22:13
Speaker 1: as a minority, you don't feel like the majority has
1:22:15
Speaker 1: treated you very well? Do you feel that way?
1:22:18
Speaker 2: Very fair assessment, right, I'm gonna say with the exception
1:22:23
Speaker 2: of especially my Small Business Committee Roger Williams, maybe it's
1:22:28
Speaker 2: the baseball connection because he's the coach of the Republican
1:22:32
Speaker 2: team and I play for the Democrats. But we've passed
1:22:35
Speaker 2: like three bipartisan bills out of that committee.
1:22:37
Speaker 1: Everybody love small business. It's a reminder, right, there's certain
1:22:41
Speaker 1: there are certain committees that can get stuff done. Agg
1:22:44
Speaker 1: has usually been one that also can get stuff done
1:22:46
Speaker 1: on a bipart.
1:22:47
Speaker 2: But you generally know we have not been treated very
1:22:49
Speaker 2: well by by the majority here.
1:22:51
Speaker 1: Because I say that, because it then becomes really hard
1:22:54
Speaker 1: to then say, oh, no, we're unlike how you treated us.
1:22:56
Speaker 1: We're going to treat you better because the Golden rule.
1:22:59
Speaker 1: Every he lives by the golden rule in politics, and
1:23:05
Speaker 1: and but they always live at it, live on it
1:23:07
Speaker 1: more defensively than offensively, meaning well you did this to me,
1:23:10
Speaker 1: so I'm going to do it to you. Right everything.
1:23:12
Speaker 1: It's more biblical Old Testament, biblical justice, right eye for
1:23:16
Speaker 1: an eye. That's not going to solve the longer term
1:23:21
Speaker 1: problem of Congress's dysfunctional dysfunctionality. And yet you and I
1:23:25
Speaker 1: both know leadership will get a lot of grief if
1:23:29
Speaker 1: you know, from the base and maybe from donors if
1:23:34
Speaker 1: if they don't punish the other side. Here's how it
1:23:43
Speaker 1: gets described. Let me, I get it. You're trying. This
1:23:46
Speaker 1: is not a simple question answer, and maybe this is
1:23:49
Speaker 1: a better way to deal with this debate. There are
1:23:52
Speaker 1: some that argue that, hey, when Democrats have power, they
1:23:54
Speaker 1: ought to use their power. Look at how those guys
1:23:56
Speaker 1: use they have power because a three vote, but they
1:24:00
Speaker 1: behave like they have a sixty vote majority. We should
1:24:04
Speaker 1: behave the same way. Do you feel that.
1:24:07
Speaker 2: I think that's why they're losing so bad. It's because
1:24:11
Speaker 2: of they're both acting like a sixty vote. They're not
1:24:14
Speaker 2: incorporating what I think are oftentimes good democratic ideas which
1:24:18
Speaker 2: might win support on some legislation, and they're allowing themselves
1:24:23
Speaker 2: to go so extreme, particularly with this president's or of
1:24:26
Speaker 2: dictating the terms of what they're pursuing, and they're not
1:24:28
Speaker 2: sort of showing any of that independence. So I actually
1:24:32
Speaker 2: I'm going to be controlling here. I think if Democrats
1:24:36
Speaker 2: and we shouldn't compromise our values, I think we can
1:24:39
Speaker 2: compromise about compromising what our core values are as Democrats,
1:24:42
Speaker 2: But if we're willing to at least on a good
1:24:45
Speaker 2: number of items in good faith, say, okay, Republicans, if
1:24:49
Speaker 2: you have an idea that is worth listening to, for example,
1:24:52
Speaker 2: and it can win win your support to help you know,
1:24:55
Speaker 2: move this piece of legislation forward, we'll hear you out.
1:24:58
Speaker 2: I mean my frustration going to rules any number of
1:25:01
Speaker 2: times has basically been if if Virginia Fox the chair,
1:25:05
Speaker 2: who's actually a very nice person. We don't agree on anything,
1:25:08
Speaker 2: but we've gotten to know each other, but she's the
1:25:11
Speaker 2: only one there, Like, there's not even a conversation.
1:25:13
Speaker 1: It's sort of any ideas the Speaker's committee for a reason, and.
1:25:18
Speaker 2: It operates that way. But again, like things don't you've
1:25:23
Speaker 2: you've covered this and been around this a lot more.
1:25:25
Speaker 2: I just I just really think that there is there
1:25:28
Speaker 2: is a crop of new members, especially in the Democratic side,
1:25:32
Speaker 2: but also some Republicans I think, who see a different
1:25:34
Speaker 2: way forward, and so I think depending on who comes
1:25:37
Speaker 2: in and replaces the members who are departing, there might
1:25:40
Speaker 2: be I think some space for maybe not a one
1:25:44
Speaker 2: to eighty degree turn right, but but just maybe like
1:25:47
Speaker 2: a thirty degree turn towards Well.
1:25:50
Speaker 1: All right, let me make I I appreciate your optimism
1:25:54
Speaker 1: on that, but let's be realistic. The Republicans that are
1:26:00
Speaker 1: likely to lose are the ones that are like your
1:26:03
Speaker 1: co sponsor and the pardon bell Don Bacon, right, these
1:26:07
Speaker 1: are the ones you know it is it is the
1:26:10
Speaker 1: it is those that are not hardcore MAGA that are
1:26:14
Speaker 1: more likely to lose, and that so you may have
1:26:18
Speaker 1: fewer Republicans in the House next year, but by percentage
1:26:23
Speaker 1: in devotion to MAGA, you may have a greater majority
1:26:26
Speaker 1: of Mega adherents and so and that. Look, this is
1:26:32
Speaker 1: due to this redistricting fiasco, which which you know, I
1:26:37
Speaker 1: don't see why more redistricting in blue states makes this better.
1:26:44
Speaker 2: You couple partisan redistricting with partisan elections. That's what you're
1:26:50
Speaker 2: going to get, right, like, And so that's that's I
1:26:56
Speaker 2: think a much harder reform is. I think that people
1:26:58
Speaker 2: will defend those systems more than say the pardon situation
1:27:03
Speaker 2: that we open with. But yeah, like, and I think
1:27:07
Speaker 2: you actually may see more progressive Democrats coming in in
1:27:12
Speaker 2: addition to the crop.
1:27:14
Speaker 1: Right who are not going to be interested. I mean, look,
1:27:16
Speaker 1: I've talked to plenty of progressive who says I want
1:27:20
Speaker 1: my own Donald Trump. That you know, it's sort of
1:27:25
Speaker 1: if we're going to live if if if the world
1:27:28
Speaker 1: is ends justifies the means, all right, then let's go
1:27:34
Speaker 1: get our version of Donald Trump.
1:27:36
Speaker 2: Uh.
1:27:38
Speaker 1: Look, I obviously don't think that that's the idea, But
1:27:44
Speaker 1: when you live in a reactionary political environment, which is
1:27:47
Speaker 1: the one I think we're living in in the moment.
1:27:49
Speaker 1: It's almost inevitable we're going to see a version of this.
1:27:55
Speaker 2: It's a good chance that we're going to see that, Right,
1:27:57
Speaker 2: I think that there's a but the most important thing
1:28:01
Speaker 2: is someone who can win. And so I don't know
1:28:03
Speaker 2: that elections are unique to the candidate, the circumstance, timing,
1:28:11
Speaker 2: and so you're going to, certainly, I think, see candidates
1:28:13
Speaker 2: in that vein. Yeah, the obviously I think it might
1:28:17
Speaker 2: do better in the respective primaries. But I think also,
1:28:21
Speaker 2: at least for Democrats, I think we are coming to
1:28:23
Speaker 2: a reckoning where it's like, if we don't win, none
1:28:26
Speaker 2: of it matters.
1:28:27
Speaker 1: Right, So, and I hear, look you and I I'm guessing,
1:28:34
Speaker 1: even if it's Baltimore, you've seen the redistricting ads that
1:28:39
Speaker 1: Obama's the spokesperson for quite a bit. I'm sure, right,
1:28:43
Speaker 1: if you've watched the NCAA tournament, I feel like I've
1:28:46
Speaker 1: seen it. You know, I'm saying Barack Obama as much
1:28:49
Speaker 1: as I'm seeing Rick Patina on my screen at the moment.
1:28:55
Speaker 1: And it it is hard. You know, you sit there
1:29:01
Speaker 1: and you're like Okay, Hey, in order to create fairness
1:29:05
Speaker 1: with Texas, we're going to have to be unfair in Virginia. Right,
1:29:10
Speaker 1: And look, Maryland has contemplated this, and you've got some
1:29:12
Speaker 1: Democrats in the state legislature. You're like, you know what,
1:29:15
Speaker 1: They're worried about the long term consequences. I'm empathetic to
1:29:20
Speaker 1: the fight fire with fire mindset. I get it right.
1:29:23
Speaker 1: And if you do believe right, there are some you know,
1:29:26
Speaker 1: Gavenus and says it out loud and maybe I'll you know,
1:29:30
Speaker 1: he believes if Democrats don't win the House this year,
1:29:33
Speaker 1: there won't be a fair twenty twenty eight election. Now,
1:29:36
Speaker 1: I don't happen to believe that, but I respect people
1:29:39
Speaker 1: that believe that. Like, you know, I might be wrong
1:29:41
Speaker 1: and they may be right. Where are you on that
1:29:44
Speaker 1: level of concern.
1:29:47
Speaker 2: I'm deeply concerned about the efforts with like the Save Act,
1:29:51
Speaker 2: for example. I do think that the Senate's going to probably,
1:29:57
Speaker 2: if not narrow, stay the same, and so I think
1:30:00
Speaker 2: it's going to be hard, at least as envisioned, to
1:30:02
Speaker 2: pass what they're trying to get through. I am actually
1:30:07
Speaker 2: concerned about, having lived through it and having seen it,
1:30:12
Speaker 2: I'm actually concerned about the certification. So I am concerned
1:30:15
Speaker 2: and obviously working to help elect a Democratic majority in
1:30:19
Speaker 2: twenty six, but knowing that the House and Senate have
1:30:25
Speaker 2: to certify the elections in twenty twenty eight, I think
1:30:27
Speaker 2: having at least one of those chambers be a Democratic
1:30:31
Speaker 2: majority is actually the thing that I'm more interested in,
1:30:33
Speaker 2: so that we have hopefully a fair, free count and
1:30:36
Speaker 2: we don't have any shenanigans around contesting the election results.
1:30:39
Speaker 1: And are you confident that this House, you know, the
1:30:45
Speaker 1: House Republicans I've had, you know, some the House Republicans
1:30:51
Speaker 1: will still have the majority in December when elections get certified.
1:30:55
Speaker 1: And people don't really fully realize this, but Congress can
1:30:59
Speaker 1: decide ultimately decide whether a House race is Yeah, it's
1:31:07
Speaker 1: actually not something that's done by the state. What's your
1:31:10
Speaker 1: level of concern that that that the Speaker is going
1:31:14
Speaker 1: to get involved after the election.
1:31:18
Speaker 2: As we sit here today, I don't think the Speaker
1:31:23
Speaker 2: is spotting to do that. I think that having led
1:31:29
Speaker 2: a local election agency and partner with elections like they
1:31:33
Speaker 2: do incredible work at the state and local levels to
1:31:35
Speaker 2: run these elections and overturning and challenging an election is
1:31:43
Speaker 2: a pretty pretty big step.
1:31:48
Speaker 1: And look, last time Congress did it, one could argue
1:31:53
Speaker 1: it's what created new Ingridge. You can go back in history,
1:31:57
Speaker 1: it's called the it's an incident. It's referred to as
1:32:01
Speaker 1: the Bloody eighth. It was an Indiana eighth Congressional district
1:32:05
Speaker 1: in eighty six. Within a year later, Democrats overturned the
1:32:10
Speaker 1: recount the House Administration Committee and sat the uh and
1:32:15
Speaker 1: sat the candidate that had lost the recount, and it
1:32:18
Speaker 1: was arguably I've had people say, you know, when did
1:32:21
Speaker 1: this polarization begin? And some will argue that that was
1:32:24
Speaker 1: the moment that gave life to Newkingridge. And when you
1:32:27
Speaker 1: give he was the backbencher ready to throw bombs at
1:32:30
Speaker 1: the time. Well, I look, I My level of concern
1:32:35
Speaker 1: on that is only if it's a really tight margin,
1:32:38
Speaker 1: right If if we're looking at if we're looking at
1:32:40
Speaker 1: three seats again, but this time it's three seats on
1:32:43
Speaker 1: your side instead of the other side, then yeah, I
1:32:46
Speaker 1: think every I think everything's a knife fight. If it's
1:32:50
Speaker 1: a twenty seat gap, I don't see it.
1:32:53
Speaker 2: Well, the seat gap and the margins of the elections themselves.
1:32:57
Speaker 2: I think if it's if it's a three seat gap,
1:32:58
Speaker 2: but praaps of Republicans have blown you know, we're one
1:33:02
Speaker 2: point fifteen points in those elections, and it's harder, I think,
1:33:04
Speaker 2: to justify. And yeah, I'm learning a lot as a
1:33:10
Speaker 2: as a new member here about sort of the ways
1:33:12
Speaker 2: in which we govern ourselves.
1:33:13
Speaker 1: And the honess do you miss do you miss being
1:33:18
Speaker 1: in local government?
1:33:20
Speaker 2: There are parts of this job that I enjoy and
1:33:22
Speaker 2: I choose to focus on them. I definitely miss getting
1:33:26
Speaker 2: things done. I mean that was that was the thing.
1:33:29
Speaker 2: Every day it was like we and this is why
1:33:31
Speaker 2: I like I'm in politics. Every day was a chance
1:33:33
Speaker 2: to make somebody's life better. So p yeah, and if
1:33:37
Speaker 2: we took what's frustrating is I know the resources this
1:33:40
Speaker 2: government has and the tools at our disposal, and if
1:33:43
Speaker 2: we actually channeled them in a way that was targeted
1:33:48
Speaker 2: and thoughtful and productive, it would be I mean, we
1:33:51
Speaker 2: could transform We have transformed this country before, right, you know, RAO,
1:33:56
Speaker 2: interstate highways, clean drinking, Like, there's how much we could do.
1:34:01
Speaker 2: But instead we're yelling at each other on social media.
1:34:05
Speaker 2: And it's I think that's that's what's really unfortunate about
1:34:09
Speaker 2: all of it.
1:34:20
Speaker 1: I think sometimes, you know, in reporting, it's I've always
1:34:25
Speaker 1: thought it was really important to change beats. Now I
1:34:28
Speaker 1: never did, and but having a fresh set of eyes
1:34:34
Speaker 1: joined me on any beat was always helpful. You know,
1:34:37
Speaker 1: what have what have I gotten used to? That isn't normal?
1:34:39
Speaker 1: But I'm treating as normal. So you're a fresh set
1:34:42
Speaker 1: of eyes. What is Congress treat as normal that You're like,
1:34:48
Speaker 1: w t F what I mean? This? This is insanity.
1:34:52
Speaker 1: Give me a few things like that.
1:34:54
Speaker 2: We already talked about the stock trading. I think you
1:34:58
Speaker 2: can look through any number of the ethics reports that
1:35:01
Speaker 2: are at least now public that in any other environment,
1:35:08
Speaker 2: even what's already publicly made available would lead to lead
1:35:12
Speaker 2: to the dismissal of members. Just very out. Again, it's
1:35:19
Speaker 2: this disconnect, and this is why people are like, you
1:35:22
Speaker 2: can get away with anything if you're elected, or if
1:35:24
Speaker 2: you're rich, or if you're you know, well connected. But
1:35:28
Speaker 2: meanwhile I can't pay my damn mortgage, I can't find
1:35:32
Speaker 2: a job, and so like that's the what the heck is?
1:35:35
Speaker 2: Is all of this like good good for me, not
1:35:39
Speaker 2: for not for thee or if you're you know, if
1:35:41
Speaker 2: you know the presence people you can get a part
1:35:43
Speaker 2: and if and I have to say, like both is
1:35:47
Speaker 2: as like a kid who grew up in like a
1:35:50
Speaker 2: steel town that shut down. Like I feel them, and
1:35:56
Speaker 2: it's it's frustrating. It's hard to see because they're I
1:36:00
Speaker 2: think there are so many good people who are there
1:36:02
Speaker 2: for the right reasons.
1:36:04
Speaker 1: But all let me let me ask you this is
1:36:06
Speaker 1: it is the following statement true that ninety percent of
1:36:11
Speaker 1: the work you do in Congress, there's ninety percent agreement.
1:36:14
Speaker 2: On nine of the work that we do. I don't
1:36:22
Speaker 2: think so currently.
1:36:23
Speaker 1: No, you think it's you think that what we're fighting
1:36:25
Speaker 1: over is more than ten percent of these days.
1:36:28
Speaker 2: And I look at it not. You can look the
1:36:30
Speaker 2: numbers of suspension bills that we pass every week, right,
1:36:34
Speaker 2: So like if you look at it from a pure
1:36:35
Speaker 2: bill number perspective, yes, but I think about all of
1:36:39
Speaker 2: the in my opinion, the terrible things that were put
1:36:42
Speaker 2: into reconciliation, the debt increase, the healthcare changes that are
1:36:46
Speaker 2: taking away of food supports, the transfer of tax cuts
1:36:50
Speaker 2: to the wealthiest of the country, and those are, like
1:36:54
Speaker 2: I weigh though so much more heavily in terms of
1:36:56
Speaker 2: like big things things that are impactful to this country
1:36:59
Speaker 2: that like renaming a post office, I can't sort of
1:37:02
Speaker 2: give the same I got you wait, so like in
1:37:05
Speaker 2: terms of like number of bills, sure, in terms of
1:37:07
Speaker 2: like impact or the magnitude of the issues, not so much.
1:37:14
Speaker 1: Well, that's it is because there is such a What
1:37:19
Speaker 1: I try to convey to folks outside of Washington is
1:37:23
Speaker 1: that you know, there's the stuff that gets the most
1:37:27
Speaker 1: attention is still only ten percent of the I always
1:37:32
Speaker 1: say there's two Washington's. There's like a Washington that's consistently
1:37:36
Speaker 1: having to get things done enough to let everything function,
1:37:40
Speaker 1: and then there's the performance art political theater of Washington.
1:37:45
Speaker 1: And I feel like the House of Representatives, those that
1:37:48
Speaker 1: have whose names are the most famous are the ones
1:37:51
Speaker 1: that do the least.
1:37:58
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of truth of that, And
1:38:04
Speaker 2: that's a choice, right. I think at the end of
1:38:06
Speaker 2: the day, you get to choose, like do you want
1:38:07
Speaker 2: to try to get stuff done or or do you
1:38:12
Speaker 2: try to go viral?
1:38:14
Speaker 1: All right, let me get at a couple of things here.
1:38:16
Speaker 1: The redistricting in Maryland is something that you were supportive
1:38:20
Speaker 1: of politically but glad it didn't happen, Or do you
1:38:23
Speaker 1: think it should have happened.
1:38:25
Speaker 2: I think it reinforces why we should be doing national reforms.
1:38:28
Speaker 2: I mean, if Republicans and Democrats and we both yell
1:38:31
Speaker 2: at each other about how terrible as in all these states,
1:38:34
Speaker 2: then like, let's again, let's come together and do something
1:38:36
Speaker 2: bipartisan and roll it back everywhere.
1:38:39
Speaker 1: You know, you have a simple way to solve this,
1:38:41
Speaker 1: to potentially mitigate this issue. So my reform obsession is
1:38:45
Speaker 1: something that Congress regularly did until nineteen twenty, which was
1:38:49
Speaker 1: expand the size of the House. And you know, because
1:38:55
Speaker 1: of a fight between the two parties about how much
1:38:57
Speaker 1: we should reapportion and how many new seats to be
1:39:00
Speaker 1: added to Congress, in nineteen thirty they shut it down.
1:39:03
Speaker 1: Four to thirty five became the number, and we went
1:39:05
Speaker 1: from you went from representing one per three hundred and
1:39:08
Speaker 1: fifty thousand to now one per eight hundred and it's
1:39:11
Speaker 1: on its way to one two a million. And that
1:39:15
Speaker 1: was not the founder's intent. And the bigger these congressional
1:39:19
Speaker 1: districts are, ironically the easier it is to use a
1:39:23
Speaker 1: faction to win them, right, and if you actually narrowed them,
1:39:28
Speaker 1: and if you had more of them, you know, essentially
1:39:30
Speaker 1: we went back to one per three fifty. And I
1:39:33
Speaker 1: think you could do this as constitutional amendment if you
1:39:35
Speaker 1: wanted to and sort of mandate that the House had
1:39:37
Speaker 1: to expand make sure that no congressional district were was
1:39:41
Speaker 1: bigger than point zero three percent of the population, which
1:39:44
Speaker 1: is the math that would get you to about one
1:39:46
Speaker 1: per four hundred thousand that you may not need to gerrymander,
1:39:53
Speaker 1: you know. And look, it would fix the electoral college
1:39:58
Speaker 1: discrepancies as it would raise the numerator right, and you
1:40:02
Speaker 1: would have less likelihood. There'd still be a chance that
1:40:05
Speaker 1: the popular vote in the electoral college would go differently,
1:40:07
Speaker 1: but it's like a one chance, not where we are now,
1:40:11
Speaker 1: which is somewhere in that ten to fifteen percent range,
1:40:14
Speaker 1: which is destabilizing to the democracy. It just is I
1:40:16
Speaker 1: think we all can you have a serious enough elections
1:40:20
Speaker 1: in a row or the majorities, you know, then people
1:40:23
Speaker 1: lose faith. I mean we've seen that in Israel's dealing
1:40:26
Speaker 1: with this. The majority hasn't been that government hasn't been
1:40:29
Speaker 1: a majority government in thirty years, you know, and you
1:40:33
Speaker 1: sort of see what happens there any appetite inside the
1:40:37
Speaker 1: House to uncap the House as the as US dorky
1:40:41
Speaker 1: kids who would like to who would like to see
1:40:44
Speaker 1: this happen, call.
1:40:45
Speaker 2: It nothing that I've heard. I hear more rumblings about
1:40:50
Speaker 2: things like ray choice voting. Frankly, and that's mostly from
1:40:53
Speaker 2: the Democratic side of the House. I haven't really heard
1:40:57
Speaker 2: much appetite other than folks who have been impacted on
1:41:02
Speaker 2: the Republican resist by the radiction who who.
1:41:05
Speaker 1: Well, that's been the dirty little secret is that the
1:41:07
Speaker 1: people that hate this the most are the actual members
1:41:10
Speaker 1: of the US House, like they are literally be treated
1:41:13
Speaker 1: like ponds in this game again between Trump and the Democrats.
1:41:15
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and look, and so I understand like why
1:41:19
Speaker 2: Democrats punched back, why there was a response, but I
1:41:25
Speaker 2: tried to lean back into like I was ready drunk anywhere.
1:41:28
Speaker 2: But it's it's a chance for us all to say,
1:41:32
Speaker 2: we've all said this is wrong. We said's wrong in Texas,
1:41:35
Speaker 2: we says wrong. You know, Democrats criticized Texas, Republicans criticized California.
1:41:40
Speaker 2: So then we agree, So let's do something about it.
1:41:46
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, eventually, least not yet. What's your advice to
1:41:54
Speaker 2: came Jefferies, if you become speaker, keep it keep it simple.
1:42:00
Speaker 2: Focus on that kitchen table, you know. Let's raise wages.
1:42:06
Speaker 2: Let's provide opportunities for people to find jobs or get
1:42:09
Speaker 2: trained for jobs. Let's lower costs through ending tariffs. Let's
1:42:13
Speaker 2: make healthcare more affordable by pushing the ACA tax Credit extension.
1:42:18
Speaker 2: And let's lead with our values. Let's lead with integrity.
1:42:22
Speaker 2: Let's pass the Pardon Integrity Act, and let's fix the pardons.
1:42:26
Speaker 2: Let's band stock trading by members of Congress. Six or
1:42:30
Speaker 2: seven things that people understand and get. Let's try to
1:42:32
Speaker 2: put it on the president's desk and let him say.
1:42:34
Speaker 1: No. What's interesting there is you didn't say anything about
1:42:38
Speaker 1: impeachment or accountability. It doesn't sound like you'd like to
1:42:40
Speaker 1: see that be a top priority.
1:42:42
Speaker 2: Hey, look, I voted to advance the articles of impeachment
1:42:46
Speaker 2: this term against this pressent. I think you certainly have
1:42:48
Speaker 2: done any number of things that are worthy of impeachment,
1:42:51
Speaker 2: and so I'm prepared to do that. I'm prepared to
1:42:53
Speaker 2: hold this president accountable at the end of the day.
1:42:57
Speaker 2: I also understand math, and so even if we impeach
1:43:01
Speaker 2: the president in the House, I don't see the numbers
1:43:03
Speaker 2: or the math changing. In the Senate, and so maybe
1:43:09
Speaker 2: it's an important Well, that's a question. You know.
1:43:12
Speaker 1: It's funny. I had this conversation with George Conway, who's
1:43:15
Speaker 1: running for Congress, on this issue, which, in some ways
1:43:18
Speaker 1: I appreciate the honesty about it, right and the transparency. Right.
1:43:22
Speaker 1: What mandate do you want? Here's the mandate I want
1:43:24
Speaker 1: you voters decide whether you give it to me. There's
1:43:29
Speaker 1: two schools of thought here on a third impeachment right.
1:43:32
Speaker 1: One school says you have to show you're you're going
1:43:35
Speaker 1: to try to hold them accountable because you've got to
1:43:38
Speaker 1: send a message to the next president and the next
1:43:41
Speaker 1: person that may hold office. Another says, if you shoot
1:43:45
Speaker 1: the if you go for the if you shoot the
1:43:48
Speaker 1: king again and miss again, have you made it where
1:43:51
Speaker 1: that tool in the toolbox is no longer a usable tool?
1:43:56
Speaker 1: I can, I can, I can argue both sides of
1:43:59
Speaker 1: this future made me do it?
1:44:02
Speaker 2: Where do you fall I fall on? I want to
1:44:05
Speaker 2: actually have accountability where we can. And so part of
1:44:08
Speaker 2: the reason why I think Taken the House is so
1:44:09
Speaker 2: important is really the oversight hearings and the suboenas that
1:44:12
Speaker 2: we can do and actually getting information out to the
1:44:14
Speaker 2: public that makes it harder for this president to keep
1:44:18
Speaker 2: operating in what I think are often lawless ways in
1:44:22
Speaker 2: passing the legislation that, in my opinion, for example, is
1:44:25
Speaker 2: the common sense reforms to ICE that are both best
1:44:28
Speaker 2: practice and that are overwhelmingly supported by Americans. And so
1:44:33
Speaker 2: I'm not opposed to impeachment. In fact, was affirmatively for it.
1:44:38
Speaker 2: But I think at the end of the day, accountability
1:44:41
Speaker 2: means that we're changing what's happening in people's lives, and
1:44:44
Speaker 2: we're changing the restraints on this president and future presidents,
1:44:49
Speaker 2: and so I'm for whatever does That is sort of
1:44:52
Speaker 2: my focus in all of this.
1:44:54
Speaker 1: All right, let me get you out of here on
1:44:58
Speaker 1: the n West More for president, he has said he's
1:45:01
Speaker 1: not running for president in twenty twenty eight, and I
1:45:03
Speaker 1: think it's actually true. He is currently not running for
1:45:06
Speaker 1: president in twenty twenty days that I'm aware of. If
1:45:09
Speaker 1: he chooses to run in twenty twenty eight, is there
1:45:12
Speaker 1: any hesitation in your part to endorse him.
1:45:15
Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to broad coalition of I think exceptional
1:45:20
Speaker 2: Democrats that we have. I am not pre committing to
1:45:23
Speaker 2: endorse any of them. Look forward to seeing what they
1:45:26
Speaker 2: all have to offer for America. The Governor's been a
1:45:29
Speaker 2: great partner here in Maryland. I think he would be
1:45:33
Speaker 2: a viable candidate should he changed from now to striking
1:45:37
Speaker 2: the now part of the answer. Sure, But I think that,
1:45:41
Speaker 2: especially in this moment, that Democrats need to put all
1:45:44
Speaker 2: of our voices forward and I think have a robust
1:45:47
Speaker 2: discussion about what the future of our party is going
1:45:51
Speaker 2: to be. Who's best equipped to lead us? And I
1:45:54
Speaker 2: think it'd be great to have Governor more be part
1:45:56
Speaker 2: of that conversation, but not at a point where I
1:45:59
Speaker 2: would be endor seeing any any particular candidate at this point.
1:46:02
Speaker 1: What does a what does electability mean to you? How
1:46:05
Speaker 1: do you define it? That's going to be quite the
1:46:08
Speaker 1: debate in twenty twenty eight. Who's electable? And what's electability
1:46:14
Speaker 1: I mean?
1:46:15
Speaker 2: And obviously it's true senses who who can win? I
1:46:21
Speaker 2: think I think it's someone who has policies that resonate
1:46:24
Speaker 2: with the American people and someone who can be cool
1:46:28
Speaker 2: and fun. And I feel like that's one of the
1:46:30
Speaker 2: places where.
1:46:31
Speaker 1: Democrats, I do think there's got to be a little
1:46:32
Speaker 1: bit of a personality test here.
1:46:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like we've fallen fat flat on our
1:46:36
Speaker 2: faces as Democrats, we've lost the sort of swagger and
1:46:39
Speaker 2: the coolness of our presidential candidates, but just it hasn't and.
1:46:44
Speaker 1: It's Obama had their own level of cool when they
1:46:49
Speaker 1: were in office.
1:46:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, even even Biden the first time, you know, the
1:46:54
Speaker 2: like the the aviators in the ice cream it was,
1:46:55
Speaker 2: it was a little bit of a swagger and a thing.
1:46:57
Speaker 2: And so figuring out as a party, how you get
1:47:00
Speaker 2: back to having both someone with the right policies, who
1:47:03
Speaker 2: can I think speak to those working interesting?
1:47:06
Speaker 1: So you really think the Democrats need to find what
1:47:09
Speaker 1: one what the kids might call it, the main character
1:47:12
Speaker 1: they need to find. They need to find, you know,
1:47:16
Speaker 1: I find my One of my favorite lines during the
1:47:18
Speaker 1: twenty twenty presidential debates was from Michael Bennett and he said,
1:47:21
Speaker 1: you know, if you lect me president, you may go
1:47:22
Speaker 1: three weeks without hearing from me. And I thought, hey,
1:47:26
Speaker 1: there's I like that. But I realized I'm not the
1:47:30
Speaker 1: maturity I think. So the point is is you're saying
1:47:34
Speaker 1: that is not what you think the country's going to
1:47:36
Speaker 1: be looking for. Is is somebody to be a character,
1:47:42
Speaker 1: a sort of Gerald Ford And I say that.
1:47:45
Speaker 2: Show me some show me some rids man like as
1:47:48
Speaker 2: my daughter and her friends would say. Yeah, I think
1:47:54
Speaker 2: you have to be able. You can have the best
1:47:56
Speaker 2: vision and ideas in the world. But if you can
1:48:00
Speaker 2: and then and look, Trump is a hell of a salesman.
1:48:02
Speaker 2: He puts on a hell of a show. I don't
1:48:05
Speaker 2: agree with most of his policies. I think they're garbage
1:48:08
Speaker 2: for this country, but he puts on a great show.
1:48:11
Speaker 2: And he did it at the State of the Union, right,
1:48:14
Speaker 2: didn't didn't talk about a ran at all. But but
1:48:16
Speaker 2: the show and the spectacle was impressive. And so we
1:48:20
Speaker 2: need I think we need someone who both can speak
1:48:23
Speaker 2: to our values and touch our hearts, but also can
1:48:25
Speaker 2: do it in a way that people are like, Yeah, let's.
1:48:28
Speaker 1: Go conversman, Johnny olcheskey, how'd I do? I'm not getting it, okay,
1:48:35
Speaker 1: Old Johnny?
1:48:39
Speaker 2: Oh?
1:48:40
Speaker 1: I think, man, you got it, Johnny Oh. I mean
1:48:42
Speaker 1: it's going to be you ever run for state wide
1:48:44
Speaker 1: office that you definitely have to be Johnny. Oh, that's
1:48:47
Speaker 1: easy on the bumper sticker, right, I.
1:48:49
Speaker 2: Think that's it. That's the sticker. Now we're gonna just
1:48:51
Speaker 2: make the transition.
1:48:53
Speaker 1: Well, I enjoyed this, joyed getting to know you. Likewise,
1:48:57
Speaker 1: let's see if the uh you got it is the
1:49:00
Speaker 1: the Oriol is going to make Camden Yards a hot
1:49:02
Speaker 1: ticket again.
1:49:03
Speaker 2: Uh ge Alonso was a great free agent pickup. The
1:49:07
Speaker 2: fact that we optioned Dean Kramer to the Miners tells
1:49:11
Speaker 2: me that we have a starting rotation that actually looks
1:49:13
Speaker 2: pretty good this year. So I'm a big fan of
1:49:17
Speaker 2: our new ownership team.
1:49:19
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I know, I'm jealous. I wish he bought
1:49:22
Speaker 1: the Nets. I was. I was hoping that that David.
1:49:27
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, no, no no, he took
1:49:29
Speaker 1: Baltimore and we lost David Rubinstein.
1:49:34
Speaker 2: But you're right, you do have a good owner, the
1:49:37
Speaker 2: great owner, great team. Oriel Park is quintessential like the
1:49:42
Speaker 2: new era. So yeah, I'm always big. Also like it's
1:49:47
Speaker 2: hard to be Johnny Oh and not be for the O's.
1:49:49
Speaker 1: So you got to be for the O's, right, Yeah,
1:49:50
Speaker 1: you never know who? Right, So uh yeah, I can
1:49:55
Speaker 1: just see the the black and orange Johnny O hats
1:49:57
Speaker 1: there for you. So anyway, congresson great, get to know you. Thanks.
1:50:01
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, all right, I hope you enjoyed that conversations.
1:50:13
Speaker 1: But now, hey it's it's the weekend. It's time to
1:50:16
Speaker 1: turn to the Chuck Todd Sports page here if you will.
1:50:19
Speaker 1: And I want to start with a modest proposal for
1:50:22
Speaker 1: the NCAA basketball tournament. And by the way, this applies
1:50:26
Speaker 1: to men and women when I'm about to propose here,
1:50:31
Speaker 1: but it is more of a reaction to the results
1:50:33
Speaker 1: of the men's tournament. Right, there's a big let's call
1:50:37
Speaker 1: it what it is. There's kind of a disappointment that
1:50:41
Speaker 1: there are no right that it's all major conference teams
1:50:44
Speaker 1: that are left. There's no mid major Cinderella. We have
1:50:48
Speaker 1: no FA Florida Atlantic, no George Mason, no Saint Peter's. Frankly,
1:50:54
Speaker 1: not even a Gonzaga, although they were a three seed,
1:50:57
Speaker 1: but still, you know, they're kind of at least from
1:50:59
Speaker 1: a non power four and a half conference. I say
1:51:01
Speaker 1: four and a half. I'm gonna put the Big East
1:51:03
Speaker 1: in the power side of the conferences. But I think
1:51:06
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that Saint John's and you Connor like
1:51:08
Speaker 1: power schools. And I think, well, you know, and we
1:51:13
Speaker 1: know Villanova aspires to be, Georgetown aspires to be you know,
1:51:17
Speaker 1: it is. Let's just say the Big East basketball now
1:51:21
Speaker 1: reminds me of where Big East football was right before
1:51:25
Speaker 1: Miami left for the ACCI. I could argue, as a
1:51:33
Speaker 1: GW guy and an A ten advocate, that the Big
1:51:36
Speaker 1: East is closer to catch The Big East is closer
1:51:39
Speaker 1: to be the A ten than it is to catching
1:51:42
Speaker 1: what would be the fourth best conference this year. I
1:51:45
Speaker 1: guess you would put it. I guess you would say
1:51:48
Speaker 1: the number four conference was the ACC given the results
1:51:53
Speaker 1: of the of the tournament, right, I think the Big
1:51:55
Speaker 1: East is closer to the A ten than it is
1:51:56
Speaker 1: to the ACCI. If you're asking, I think i'd go
1:52:01
Speaker 1: Big ten, Big twelve SEC ACC this year just just
1:52:04
Speaker 1: sort of in your power order of the conferences in
1:52:07
Speaker 1: college basketball. But there's a huge disappointment, right, there's just
1:52:12
Speaker 1: it's all power for schools, right that dark horses are
1:52:15
Speaker 1: like Iowa Nebraska or an eleven seeded Texas that was
1:52:19
Speaker 1: seen as a top ten twenty school earlier this year.
1:52:23
Speaker 1: And I think there's always been this conundrum about the
1:52:25
Speaker 1: NCAA Tournament in that we love upsets in the first round,
1:52:29
Speaker 1: and the last thing we want to see are these
1:52:31
Speaker 1: schools actually in the final four. We think we do,
1:52:34
Speaker 1: but once they appear in the final four, nobody watches
1:52:36
Speaker 1: these games. Right when Butler or Mason or Gonzaie. And
1:52:41
Speaker 1: it's not like Florida Atlantic. They've not been ratings Juggernauts. Right.
1:52:45
Speaker 1: What we want is we want them to get almost there.
1:52:48
Speaker 1: We want them to get to the We love them
1:52:49
Speaker 1: in the Sweet sixteen, we like them in the eight
1:52:52
Speaker 1: and then we want Duke playing Yukon in the final, right,
1:52:56
Speaker 1: or you know, fill in your top tier score. So
1:53:04
Speaker 1: you know me, I don't want to sit here and
1:53:06
Speaker 1: just identify problems, whether it's in our politics or in
1:53:10
Speaker 1: our sports fandom. I am here to propose solutions and
1:53:16
Speaker 1: have I got a solution for you, And I'm going
1:53:17
Speaker 1: to begin telling you my bias. I went to GW,
1:53:22
Speaker 1: so in this case, my bias is for the mid majors,
1:53:26
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna explain why it's good for everybody involved.
1:53:32
Speaker 1: When GW made the Sweet sixteen and ninety three, I
1:53:37
Speaker 1: know for some of you maybe listening to this podcast
1:53:39
Speaker 1: weren't born then, do you know what happened to applications
1:53:45
Speaker 1: the following year? They're like it went up like fifty percent.
1:53:51
Speaker 1: And GW went to the NCAA tournament seven out of
1:53:53
Speaker 1: ten years in the nineties and just making the NCAA
1:53:58
Speaker 1: Tournament one Sweet sixteen appearance, a couple of und on
1:54:00
Speaker 1: to thirty two's consistently playing big time school, so they
1:54:04
Speaker 1: were suddenly they were in the mix, and they were
1:54:06
Speaker 1: in the conversation, and it had huge implications for GW's
1:54:12
Speaker 1: status as a top tier university. One could argue that GW,
1:54:17
Speaker 1: which is now an AAU school R one university important
1:54:21
Speaker 1: distinction in the in the world of academics. They it
1:54:25
Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten there without that investment in the basketball program.
1:54:29
Speaker 1: And there are stories like this all around the country. Shoot,
1:54:33
Speaker 1: this happens even with the power for school Universe of
1:54:34
Speaker 1: Miami applications have gone through the roof since Miami made
1:54:37
Speaker 1: it to the NCAA title in football, Georgia and Clemson.
1:54:44
Speaker 1: The current president in GW Ellen Grandberg, I'm a huge
1:54:48
Speaker 1: fan of I just think she's brought an energy to
1:54:51
Speaker 1: the place that that that that that is that I'm
1:54:57
Speaker 1: just I haven't felt it like this since the Tract
1:55:00
Speaker 1: and Berg days. For those of you that really know
1:55:03
Speaker 1: GW's politics, So I'm a huge I'm really supportive of her.
1:55:07
Speaker 1: I'm really rooting for She tells a great story about
1:55:10
Speaker 1: she was the provost at Clemson during the rise of DABA,
1:55:14
Speaker 1: and she said that it wasn't just you didn't just
1:55:19
Speaker 1: improve the quality student you got. You know, you got
1:55:23
Speaker 1: they got Applications went up, which meant they got they
1:55:25
Speaker 1: got they got to they got to have a higher
1:55:28
Speaker 1: accept you know, basically a lower acceptance rate, which means
1:55:30
Speaker 1: you're getting a higher quality student. They had more out
1:55:33
Speaker 1: of state students or more diversified student body. More out
1:55:39
Speaker 1: of state students means she can give more scholarship money
1:55:41
Speaker 1: in state. There's all sorts of benefits that come with it.
1:55:45
Speaker 1: And then she said to one other thing, it improved,
1:55:48
Speaker 1: It was a differentiator when doing interviews with professors. I
1:55:52
Speaker 1: think it just got a better quality of professor who
1:55:54
Speaker 1: saw the excitement around the football program as a feature.
1:55:58
Speaker 1: You know, you sometimes here, you know university, you get academic,
1:56:02
Speaker 1: you'll get the academic faculty. Faculty sentence will fight investments
1:56:06
Speaker 1: into sports programs because they think it's being taken away
1:56:08
Speaker 1: from academics. But I think more and more modern faculties
1:56:12
Speaker 1: understand that success in athletics actually indirectly translate to success
1:56:19
Speaker 1: in academics because it allows it it creates more interest
1:56:22
Speaker 1: in the school, you get more applications that in turn
1:56:27
Speaker 1: gets more donor dollars into the school. It just it
1:56:30
Speaker 1: is truly rising tide. So why do I say all
1:56:37
Speaker 1: this before I give you this preamble here, before I
1:56:40
Speaker 1: give you my proposal to fix the NCAA Tournament and
1:56:42
Speaker 1: to bring back everything that we love about it and
1:56:46
Speaker 1: keep what we love about it and have it benefit everybody.
1:56:52
Speaker 1: It's my proposal to expand the tournament to ninety six teams,
1:56:56
Speaker 1: because it's clear now with then il the situation we're in,
1:57:02
Speaker 1: which is look, it is gravity. It is it is
1:57:04
Speaker 1: allowed that all the great mid major players all are
1:57:08
Speaker 1: are all going to end up in power for schools. Right,
1:57:12
Speaker 1: you just have to look. You look at any of
1:57:14
Speaker 1: the top programs. I mean Iowa was a great example, right.
1:57:20
Speaker 1: Their coach and point guard started together in Division two.
1:57:23
Speaker 1: They had success at Drake together. Now they're at Iowa
1:57:26
Speaker 1: and they knock off Florida. So all the great mid
1:57:28
Speaker 1: major players are still having a huge impact in the
1:57:33
Speaker 1: NCAA tournament. They're just doing it with bigger brands, a
1:57:37
Speaker 1: bigger brand on their jersey. But there's over three hundred
1:57:44
Speaker 1: and twenty Division I basketball programs, and right now only
1:57:51
Speaker 1: sixty eight slots for those three hundred and twenty basketball programs.
1:57:56
Speaker 1: That's actually arguably too small of a cut. And even
1:57:58
Speaker 1: if you if so, if you expanded ninety six, you're
1:58:00
Speaker 1: still less than one third. Major League baseball has twelve
1:58:05
Speaker 1: out of thirty teams that make football has fourteen out
1:58:10
Speaker 1: of thirty two Basketball now has twenty out of thirty
1:58:15
Speaker 1: if you count the playing games. So having college basketball
1:58:24
Speaker 1: allow less than a third, but nearly a third of
1:58:30
Speaker 1: their programs into their postseason isn't diluting the product. It's
1:58:34
Speaker 1: probably arguably fair, and more importantly, by expanding in ninety six.
1:58:40
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to the logistics here in minute, because
1:58:42
Speaker 1: I've solved all your logistics problems here. Okay, I'm gonna
1:58:46
Speaker 1: borrow page from my friend Colin Coyhard. I am giving
1:58:48
Speaker 1: you the answer. Hopefully the NCAA is smart enough to
1:58:53
Speaker 1: just accept my proposal as is and just implement it.
1:58:58
Speaker 1: Is a It is not dilute the product. It will
1:59:02
Speaker 1: enhance all of these universities. This is a good thing
1:59:09
Speaker 1: to do for students. It is a good thing to
1:59:11
Speaker 1: do for academics. It is a good thing to do
1:59:13
Speaker 1: for recruiting everyday Americans to want to go to school wherever,
1:59:20
Speaker 1: so it has a net positive across the board for
1:59:24
Speaker 1: higher education. I really believe this, and I just laid
1:59:27
Speaker 1: out a couple of examples to reinforce this notion. And
1:59:32
Speaker 1: I know, look, I understand the real cynics. Hey, there's
1:59:35
Speaker 1: these people that get paid to play college sports aren't
1:59:37
Speaker 1: even going to class. Yeah, there's always going to be
1:59:40
Speaker 1: those examples, but a lot of this still funnels back
1:59:44
Speaker 1: to the university and only raises only raises everybody's floor.
1:59:51
Speaker 1: All right, So, without further ado, this is the simplest.
1:59:56
Speaker 1: This is an easy way to implement a ninety six
2:00:00
Speaker 1: team tournament. So let me give you the structure. It's
2:00:03
Speaker 1: pretty simple. Four regions, just like we have now currently
2:00:09
Speaker 1: you have four reasons with what do we do with seventeen?
2:00:16
Speaker 1: Essentially seventeen? What do we have with every not every region?
2:00:19
Speaker 1: So right now it's sixty eight teams make it with
2:00:23
Speaker 1: the first four, but we have four regions sixteen plus two,
2:00:27
Speaker 1: so I think, so I guess it's eighteen. That can't
2:00:31
Speaker 1: be right, excuse me. So basically we're averaging not each
2:00:37
Speaker 1: region has has the eighteen teams in it, so this
2:00:41
Speaker 1: current so I know I'm confusing things there. So right
2:00:44
Speaker 1: now we're six four regions, sixteen teams, and then of
2:00:47
Speaker 1: course we have two round of sixteen playans, so we
2:00:51
Speaker 1: have six sixteen seeds and six eleven seeds. My proposal
2:00:56
Speaker 1: would have four regions, twenty four teams in each region,
2:01:00
Speaker 1: giving New Year ninety six teams. If you have a
2:01:04
Speaker 1: seed of one through eight, there's only one team in
2:01:07
Speaker 1: each of those regions, so eight teams per region, so
2:01:10
Speaker 1: only so you'll have four to one seeds still, four
2:01:14
Speaker 1: to two seeds, four eight seeds right all the way
2:01:16
Speaker 1: one through eight. Four of each seed, seeds nine through
2:01:20
Speaker 1: sixteen in each region would have two teams on that line,
2:01:24
Speaker 1: there'd be two nine seeds in each region, two ten
2:01:27
Speaker 1: seeds right, sixteen teams seeded nine through sixteen, all whom
2:01:34
Speaker 1: would play each other eight teams seeded one through eight
2:01:41
Speaker 1: the first round. The playing games would also be done
2:01:43
Speaker 1: on Tuesday Wednesday, just like they are now with the
2:01:45
Speaker 1: first four. Right now, they're two games on Tuesday, nine,
2:01:48
Speaker 1: two games on Wednesday night. So now, in order to
2:01:52
Speaker 1: have all these nine through sixteen playings in the four regions.
2:01:57
Speaker 1: You'd have to have thirty two playing games to instead
2:02:03
Speaker 1: of what we have now, which is four, and you
2:02:07
Speaker 1: would have sixteen of them on Tuesday and sixteen of
2:02:10
Speaker 1: them on Wednesday, and you still start your tournament one
2:02:14
Speaker 1: through sixty four on Thursday and the next first round
2:02:19
Speaker 1: game set of games on Friday. So the math is
2:02:24
Speaker 1: pretty simple. We've already done this now know all these
2:02:29
Speaker 1: games wouldn't be in Dayton. What you would simply do is,
2:02:34
Speaker 1: whoever the first round host city is, Instead of hosting
2:02:39
Speaker 1: Thursday Saturday or Friday Sunday, they host Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Wednesday,
2:02:46
Speaker 1: Friday Sunday. So you're cutting down in the travel right,
2:02:52
Speaker 1: and you see it everybody. And if you're asking right,
2:02:55
Speaker 1: the one through ninety six, right, all the nine seeds
2:03:00
Speaker 1: are ahead of all the ten seeds. If you're doing
2:03:01
Speaker 1: the s curve, all the ten seeds are heading eleven seeds.
2:03:05
Speaker 1: And look, you might make slight adjustments here there to
2:03:09
Speaker 1: maybe prevent playing game rematches. You know, maybe you can't
2:03:13
Speaker 1: prevent rematches in the first in the in the in
2:03:16
Speaker 1: the round of sixty four or the round of thirty two,
2:03:18
Speaker 1: but you do your best in the round of ninety
2:03:20
Speaker 1: six to do this. But here's what it would give you,
2:03:25
Speaker 1: more basketball. We like more basketball, more inventory, more one
2:03:30
Speaker 1: and donees. Ninety six teams. Look, we have it now
2:03:35
Speaker 1: arguably right. You want to know what the other thirty
2:03:37
Speaker 1: two teams are. Just go to the NIT, right, and
2:03:41
Speaker 1: it would be teams like Auburn. Maybe my GW makes it,
2:03:45
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't. I don't think they do. But Dayton
2:03:46
Speaker 1: probably gets in, but it probably would, you know improve
2:03:51
Speaker 1: you know the eight ten probably becomes four to five
2:03:53
Speaker 1: or six bid league. Yeah, the SEC maybe becomes a
2:03:57
Speaker 1: fourteen bid league, twelve bid league, who knows? Right, But
2:04:03
Speaker 1: you give a chance to the mid majors. Yes, the
2:04:08
Speaker 1: obstacle is higher, there's more inclusivity, there's we have plenty
2:04:16
Speaker 1: of talent, right. The NBA is expanding while I well,
2:04:21
Speaker 1: you could argue they have a couple of week franchises
2:04:23
Speaker 1: now that they ought to probably move rather than add teams,
2:04:26
Speaker 1: but they can't. They act. The reason the NBA is
2:04:29
Speaker 1: expanding is there's enough talent around the world to fill it,
2:04:33
Speaker 1: and we're now learning there's enough talent to we have
2:04:37
Speaker 1: you absolutely the ninety sixth team is no, it would
2:04:41
Speaker 1: be the same as what you see now with the
2:04:42
Speaker 1: with the sixteen seeds, but take the eighty first team
2:04:46
Speaker 1: in that thing. The difference between the I'll tell you
2:04:51
Speaker 1: right now, I think it's Nevada is playing Auburn in
2:04:54
Speaker 1: an NIT game to I think decide who goes to
2:04:57
Speaker 1: the NIT semis Nevada is. It's probably as competitive as
2:05:03
Speaker 1: Salute they could be. You know, you could put them
2:05:05
Speaker 1: in a nine seed, or you could say they just
2:05:08
Speaker 1: you know, weren't quite good enough to get in and
2:05:12
Speaker 1: be in an eleven seed plan. But they're not that
2:05:15
Speaker 1: far out of it, you know, and they've done better
2:05:19
Speaker 1: in their conference tournament. They may have ended up as
2:05:21
Speaker 1: an eleven seed plan. I think when you look at
2:05:25
Speaker 1: the teams seeded nine through twelve, Okay in particular, the
2:05:32
Speaker 1: difference between those sixteen teams and the thirty two teams
2:05:36
Speaker 1: that are in the NIT is negligible. So all you're
2:05:41
Speaker 1: doing is expanding that pool, and you know what, you're
2:05:42
Speaker 1: giving shots to these mid majors to do what they're
2:05:45
Speaker 1: going to do. It gives the mid majors the exposure
2:05:49
Speaker 1: in a national setting. Everybody makes more money. Oh did
2:05:55
Speaker 1: I leave that part out right? They answered, all your
2:05:57
Speaker 1: questions as money. Sometimes your problems is money. Everybody would
2:06:01
Speaker 1: make more money. You can still go back to the
2:06:04
Speaker 1: sixty four if you wanted to do that. You have
2:06:07
Speaker 1: the fun little there's just it is only going to
2:06:10
Speaker 1: be more fan friendly. It will Who cares about the
2:06:17
Speaker 1: arguments between ninety seven, ninety eight and ninety nine. Who's
2:06:19
Speaker 1: left out right? Nobody cares about those teams at that
2:06:22
Speaker 1: point anymore. You know, the best teams are getting a
2:06:26
Speaker 1: shot at this tournament. This tournament is semi random, but
2:06:31
Speaker 1: it does seem the best does flow to the top.
2:06:36
Speaker 1: You're still likely going to have the top conferences dominate
2:06:40
Speaker 1: the final four when all of a sudden done. But
2:06:42
Speaker 1: you're given the mid majors more shots and guess what,
2:06:45
Speaker 1: more shots on goal mean more pucks might go into
2:06:48
Speaker 1: the goal, and you're going to have and it brings
2:06:53
Speaker 1: back that long shot, It brings back the opportunity of
2:06:59
Speaker 1: more cinders. And at the same time it gives an
2:07:04
Speaker 1: advantage to the power conferences because most of them are
2:07:07
Speaker 1: going to get essentially a first round by so whoever
2:07:12
Speaker 1: they face. And yes, sometimes those teams with fresher legs
2:07:15
Speaker 1: are going to win a first round game. But guess
2:07:17
Speaker 1: what if you lose a first round game to somebody
2:07:19
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to lose, you probably weren't going to
2:07:21
Speaker 1: win the whole thing anyway, so we've gotten you out
2:07:24
Speaker 1: of the way. Anyway, This is the answer. It needs
2:07:30
Speaker 1: to go to ninety six. It takes more. Look, my
2:07:35
Speaker 1: goal in all of sports is to take the subject
2:07:38
Speaker 1: take as much subjectivity out of the situations as you
2:07:40
Speaker 1: possibly can, lee let the committees do seating. This minimizes
2:07:45
Speaker 1: how much the committee's decide who gets in and who
2:07:47
Speaker 1: gets out, and you sort of get rid of all
2:07:50
Speaker 1: of that issue because once you hit ninety six, you're
2:07:53
Speaker 1: just not It's that you can have arguments about seeding
2:07:55
Speaker 1: and who gets to nine seed. Who gets the eight
2:07:57
Speaker 1: seed becomes really important, right who void's the first four,
2:08:01
Speaker 1: first two day, you know, the round of ninety six,
2:08:03
Speaker 1: and who doesn't. That's kind of fun. But I think
2:08:11
Speaker 1: that this would solve a lot of problems and essentially
2:08:14
Speaker 1: be ultimately good for everybody. Good for the future of
2:08:19
Speaker 1: college basketball, good for smaller schools trying to elevate their brands,
2:08:26
Speaker 1: Good for basketball players who don't feel like they have
2:08:28
Speaker 1: to go to the super powerful conferences in order to
2:08:31
Speaker 1: get some attention in the tournament. It might keep people
2:08:34
Speaker 1: playing closer to home, and it guarantees that you always
2:08:42
Speaker 1: have the best teams and that I think ultimately making
2:08:46
Speaker 1: it towards the end or at least the hottest teams
2:08:49
Speaker 1: on that front. So there's your answer, give me a
2:08:54
Speaker 1: ninety sixteen NCAA tournament. I think in some ways NIL
2:08:59
Speaker 1: is demanding it. In the one five years ago, I
2:09:02
Speaker 1: might have argued against it because the quality in that
2:09:06
Speaker 1: distinction from sixty four to ninety six was shit. That's
2:09:10
Speaker 1: not the case anymore. That's not the case at all.
2:09:14
Speaker 1: It's just there is a lot more talent out there,
2:09:16
Speaker 1: a lot more and the entire globe is being recruited now,
2:09:22
Speaker 1: not just for the pros, but for college. It's why
2:09:25
Speaker 1: the NBA can comfortably add two more fifteen man rosters.
2:09:31
Speaker 1: The talent is there to do this.
2:09:35
Speaker 2: Now.
2:09:35
Speaker 1: They may not have the right markets. Maybe Memphis needs
2:09:39
Speaker 1: to be they move the Memphis team to Nashville. Maybe
2:09:41
Speaker 1: New Orleans needs to go to another place. But Seattle
2:09:47
Speaker 1: and Vegas also are pretty good places to do this,
2:09:50
Speaker 1: and who knows, maybe, and we're getting awfully close as
2:09:55
Speaker 1: soon as we figure out how to speed up air travel.
2:10:00
Speaker 1: London and Madrid and Paris are coming, so we know
2:10:04
Speaker 1: this is going. You know, the talent is there. This
2:10:10
Speaker 1: isn't difficult to do. There is really no logistic barrier here.
2:10:16
Speaker 1: And with so many media partners out there looking for
2:10:19
Speaker 1: a piece of the mid March Madness action, I promise
2:10:22
Speaker 1: you there's more money to be made too. So Charlie Baker,
2:10:26
Speaker 1: there it is. You don't have to change a thing.
2:10:31
Speaker 1: There's your proposal. It's all wrapped up in a nice boat.
2:10:34
Speaker 1: Let's get it implemented in the next couple of years.
2:10:37
Speaker 1: Today's opening day. It's the most hopeful time of the year. No,
2:10:44
Speaker 1: I have no clue how the hell I'm supposed to
2:10:46
Speaker 1: watch the Nats. I know I will figure it out.
2:10:50
Speaker 1: There's a great article in The Athletic that I would
2:10:52
Speaker 1: love to tell people about, and they just use the
2:10:56
Speaker 1: Yankees at an example. If you wanted to guarantee to
2:10:58
Speaker 1: watch every single Yankee game that's gonna be a on TV,
2:11:00
Speaker 1: it would cost you eight hundred dollars in subscriptions between
2:11:04
Speaker 1: Prime Cable for the S Network, MLB, Peete Cock everything
2:11:10
Speaker 1: that you would have to buy to see every yankingam.
2:11:12
Speaker 1: I thought that was a pretty good exercise that they did,
2:11:14
Speaker 1: essentially about eight hundred bucks to see everything. Hey, MLB,
2:11:19
Speaker 1: you need to fix this a sep. I have no
2:11:21
Speaker 1: clue how the hell I'm watching the Nats. I assume
2:11:23
Speaker 1: I have to pay some fee directly to the Nats,
2:11:25
Speaker 1: of an extra ten bucks a month, whatever it's going
2:11:27
Speaker 1: to be, it's really going to irritate me as a
2:11:30
Speaker 1: season ticket holder. I don't think I should have to
2:11:32
Speaker 1: pay any extra money to watch them on TV. I
2:11:36
Speaker 1: think that ought to be a perk of season ticket holders,
2:11:39
Speaker 1: mister Lerner, that all access to Nats games should be
2:11:45
Speaker 1: available to season ticket holders. And perhaps you already have
2:11:51
Speaker 1: that somewhere. Maybe you wait for us to ask, but
2:11:53
Speaker 1: that should be an obvious perk how this whole thing works.
2:12:00
Speaker 1: It certainly should be, because right now there's no good
2:12:03
Speaker 1: reason to have season tickets, So in some ways, using
2:12:08
Speaker 1: access to television coverage as adding that in as a
2:12:12
Speaker 1: perk probably will make it a lot easier to still
2:12:18
Speaker 1: continue to convince people to buy season ticket packages, because
2:12:23
Speaker 1: those things matter. So look, I've got two fantasy baseball
2:12:27
Speaker 1: drafts this weekend, so I'm obviously knee deep in baseball.
2:12:30
Speaker 1: But I did a fun little thing. I've been going
2:12:33
Speaker 1: through all the rankings, and I thought, so I used AI.
2:12:35
Speaker 1: I put the top six hundred rankings into Claude, and
2:12:41
Speaker 1: I said, hey, divide this up by teams, so I
2:12:45
Speaker 1: know which teams have the most, you know, in the
2:12:48
Speaker 1: top six hundred. And I thought it was a fun
2:12:51
Speaker 1: little exercise. Well it is. The Dodgers won, the Yankees two,
2:12:56
Speaker 1: the Cubs three, the Phillies four, and the Mariners five,
2:12:59
Speaker 1: all of them or playoff teams right six through ten,
2:13:03
Speaker 1: or the Braves, Mets, Red Sox in the Guardians and Brewers.
2:13:08
Speaker 1: And it's the next five that I'm the most curious about.
2:13:11
Speaker 1: And these are the teams because I don't have a
2:13:13
Speaker 1: team to root for this year that I know is
2:13:16
Speaker 1: going to be a playoff team. I'm just hoping the
2:13:18
Speaker 1: Nationals don't lose hunter games, all right. I am just
2:13:21
Speaker 1: you know, please, please, please please please win sixty three games.
2:13:25
Speaker 1: It's all I'm asking. They had a couple of seventy
2:13:28
Speaker 1: one win seasons a couple of years ago. I thought, oh,
2:13:30
Speaker 1: we're on our way to eighty this point. Just give
2:13:32
Speaker 1: me sixty three please don't embarrass us beyond that. And
2:13:36
Speaker 1: by the way, my god, right, I think it is
2:13:42
Speaker 1: funny how Dan Schnyder covered up the inequities of sports
2:13:46
Speaker 1: owners in DC. But he did. But I digress. If
2:13:51
Speaker 1: I were, you know, the dark corps, what I'm interested in.
2:13:54
Speaker 1: We know Dodgers, Yankees, Blue Jays, Mariners that feel that
2:14:00
Speaker 1: feels like you know, you know, probably Tigers are in there, right,
2:14:04
Speaker 1: those are your World Series contenders, but sort of the
2:14:06
Speaker 1: under you know, somebody is going to come from out
2:14:09
Speaker 1: of nowhere under the radar, right was arguably the Mariners
2:14:12
Speaker 1: and the Blue Jays were two of those teams. So
2:14:15
Speaker 1: the hot under the radar team that I'm pulling for
2:14:17
Speaker 1: is the Pirates. So I always try to have a
2:14:20
Speaker 1: young team that I'm pulling for that I love schemes.
2:14:25
Speaker 1: They have a really young team. I love the history
2:14:27
Speaker 1: of the Pirates. I love that community. As you know.
2:14:31
Speaker 1: Dynastic my new sports history podcast with Ja and Donde,
2:14:34
Speaker 1: our first episodes about the Dodgers, or second episode is
2:14:36
Speaker 1: gonna be about Pittsburgh Steelers. But before they were the Steelers,
2:14:40
Speaker 1: the most successful Pittsburgh franchise was the Pirates. It's been
2:14:44
Speaker 1: a debacle the last forty years, but it was, you know,
2:14:47
Speaker 1: up until Barry Bonds left, it was the Pirates were
2:14:50
Speaker 1: consistently one of the better franchises in baseball. I certainly
2:14:56
Speaker 1: hope this is a year that they do because I
2:14:58
Speaker 1: think if they can get to the playoff, then those
2:15:01
Speaker 1: owners will finally spend some money and then maybe the
2:15:04
Speaker 1: Pirates can can can behave and like a major market team.
2:15:08
Speaker 1: But the teams the sort of I'm gonna be. Look,
2:15:11
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be sort of you know, rooting for the Orioles.
2:15:14
Speaker 1: They're in the region, they have all the talent in
2:15:17
Speaker 1: the world. I have way too many Adlie Rushman rookie
2:15:20
Speaker 1: cards that I can't get rid of. So I'd really
2:15:22
Speaker 1: love to see him uh get his uh, get get
2:15:27
Speaker 1: his get his mojo back. We'll see if he does,
2:15:31
Speaker 1: because he's got some motivation. There's a catcher behind him,
2:15:34
Speaker 1: Sam Bassalo, I believe his name, who who could overtake him?
2:15:38
Speaker 1: But that's sort of the fun to me for this season.
2:15:41
Speaker 1: We know who the top teams are going to be.
2:15:43
Speaker 1: Who's a team we're not expecting that's going to break through, right?
2:15:46
Speaker 1: And my candidates are Oriols. Royals, the hated San Francisco Giants.
2:15:54
Speaker 1: I'm a former Dodger fan, I still hate the Giants,
2:15:58
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go with the sacrament This is there
2:16:02
Speaker 1: last year in that bandbox park, so they're going to
2:16:04
Speaker 1: have I mean, I love the A's is. Anytime you
2:16:08
Speaker 1: need a fantasy hit or just grab an A, grab
2:16:10
Speaker 1: a Sacramento A because they're going to hit more homers
2:16:12
Speaker 1: than they should. Right last year, I was all over
2:16:15
Speaker 1: Jacob Wilson one dollar shortstop, turned out to be brilliant
2:16:18
Speaker 1: near Rookie of the Year. Nick Kurtz is on that team.
2:16:21
Speaker 1: So those are my dark horses. But I'm just excited
2:16:25
Speaker 1: about having baseball back because there's nothing like what I
2:16:31
Speaker 1: love is coming. You've done with the day, you know,
2:16:36
Speaker 1: you have your relaxation drink, whatever your choice is. If
2:16:39
Speaker 1: you're going to get sold, you get sold. If you're
2:16:41
Speaker 1: gonna get glass of red wine, you do that, and
2:16:44
Speaker 1: you put on the ballgame. Now. Of course, we just
2:16:46
Speaker 1: have to figure out where the hell we find the
2:16:48
Speaker 1: ball games this year. But when we find them, that rhythm,
2:16:52
Speaker 1: the evening rhythm, nice to an hour and twenty minute game.
2:16:56
Speaker 1: I love it so like my big hope Nationals have
2:17:00
Speaker 1: to go one to O so I have one happy
2:17:02
Speaker 1: day in baseball this year. All right. First question comes
2:17:17
Speaker 1: from Steve Vernon Hills, Illinois, and he says, ah, he's
2:17:20
Speaker 1: writing in reaction to my top five all time Illinois
2:17:24
Speaker 1: statewide campaigns, and he writes, Hey, the eighty six gover
2:17:26
Speaker 1: race with Adelaide the third deserves to be on the list.
2:17:29
Speaker 1: As an Adelaide fan since nineteen seventy, I banged on
2:17:31
Speaker 1: doors for his first Senate campaign in high school. It
2:17:33
Speaker 1: was especially painful. I suppose the Lincoln Douglas eighteen fifty
2:17:36
Speaker 1: eight campaign needs to be number one. You're not the
2:17:38
Speaker 1: only one that asked me about eighteen fifty eight. I'll
2:17:40
Speaker 1: get to it in a minute. Best debates and it
2:17:42
Speaker 1: made a president. Love the podcast, but almost too much.
2:17:45
Speaker 1: Don't have time for out Frankens anymore, and I'm retired.
2:17:49
Speaker 1: Oh hey, Al, I don't know if you still listen.
2:17:52
Speaker 1: Franken and I were supposed to do a home and
2:17:54
Speaker 1: n way in our pods, and I think we're going
2:17:55
Speaker 1: to hopefully get that done soon. But no, don't make out.
2:18:01
Speaker 1: Don't make al. I'm unhappy, but you know I appreciate
2:18:03
Speaker 1: that I'm the lead pod for either. Let me tell
2:18:06
Speaker 1: you why I didn't include eighteen fifty eight and why
2:18:08
Speaker 1: I just I just made this decision when I put
2:18:11
Speaker 1: the research together for that book. I told you this
2:18:13
Speaker 1: was research I did for a book about thirty years ago,
2:18:16
Speaker 1: and I just decided not to include any campaigns that
2:18:21
Speaker 1: were not resolved by the voters. Right. And the eighteen
2:18:23
Speaker 1: fifty eight Senate campaign, Yes, it's the Lincoln Douglas debates,
2:18:26
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's iconic, and maybe because of that
2:18:32
Speaker 1: it should. If there is an exception, that would be
2:18:34
Speaker 1: the loan exception. But it was simply because it's a
2:18:37
Speaker 1: campaign that the state legislature, right, because Lincoln won the campaign,
2:18:40
Speaker 1: but he didn't, right, you know, I mean, yes, the
2:18:43
Speaker 1: debates mattered, the right, that mattered in some ways more
2:18:48
Speaker 1: than the result itself. But a very very very fair
2:18:55
Speaker 1: question I asked you weren't the only one, and I
2:18:57
Speaker 1: was glad to get that. So that's I didn't include it.
2:19:01
Speaker 1: But you know, I already made one exception of Illinois
2:19:04
Speaker 1: to include a presidential where I don't want to include
2:19:06
Speaker 1: any presidential but that one felt iconic because it's been
2:19:10
Speaker 1: used it's been so weaponized in our politics to this day.
2:19:14
Speaker 2: Right.
2:19:16
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Josh P. You're right trually enjoying
2:19:19
Speaker 1: your podcast. Thank you for all the hard work involved.
2:19:21
Speaker 1: I meet the press this morning. Referring to March twenty second,
2:19:23
Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Scott Besson told Kristen Welker, we are energy
2:19:27
Speaker 1: self sufficient. We get an oil from the Strait of Hormuz.
2:19:29
Speaker 1: If this is true, why have our gas prices risen
2:19:31
Speaker 1: a dollar or more since we started bombing around? Thank you,
2:19:34
Speaker 1: Josh b Well, I think you know the answer. The
2:19:35
Speaker 1: markets of the markets and that and it's you know,
2:19:38
Speaker 1: when twenty percent of you know, yes, where do we
2:19:41
Speaker 1: get our oil? We get our oil more from you know,
2:19:44
Speaker 1: we are more energy independent than we even were thirty
2:19:47
Speaker 1: years ago. But twenty percent of the world, particularly Asia,
2:19:51
Speaker 1: gets it from And when you start right, it just
2:19:54
Speaker 1: raises it. It's a market, right, when you suddenly deny
2:19:57
Speaker 1: supply in one part of the world, then people start
2:20:02
Speaker 1: looking where there is supply and they start bidding it
2:20:05
Speaker 1: up because they're desperate for it. So are you know,
2:20:10
Speaker 1: unless we decided to manipulate our market or have state
2:20:17
Speaker 1: you know this, this is where you would have state
2:20:20
Speaker 1: controls and stuff. I don't think anybody would be in
2:20:23
Speaker 1: favor of that. So it is all Scott Bessant and
2:20:33
Speaker 1: essentially was making the case for us that our economy
2:20:36
Speaker 1: isn't going to crater because we don't get and that
2:20:40
Speaker 1: is true. But we're all going to get taxed on this,
2:20:45
Speaker 1: and essentially we're all going to pay an extra fee
2:20:49
Speaker 1: for the inability of oil to get through the straight
2:20:53
Speaker 1: of hormones to Asia. So it's just, you know, there's there,
2:20:59
Speaker 1: you know, unless when you want price controls on this
2:21:02
Speaker 1: from the government, which I think long term nobody would
2:21:05
Speaker 1: want to see that happen. Next question comes from Donovan
2:21:09
Speaker 1: from Maryland. He says, Hey, Chuck, huge fan of the podcast,
2:21:11
Speaker 1: looking forward to the Commanders getting a solid draft pick
2:21:14
Speaker 1: next month. Yam, it's all about Jeremiah Love, right, that's
2:21:17
Speaker 1: all the new draft experts are going there if you
2:21:20
Speaker 1: believe that the Commanders don't need it. Offensive Lineman, I'd
2:21:25
Speaker 1: love to see Jeremiah Love on that team anyway. Many
2:21:27
Speaker 1: Americans feel that national politics has become so dominant that
2:21:29
Speaker 1: it drowns out the local officials who actually shape our
2:21:32
Speaker 1: daily lives, our mayor's county, executive, state legislatures. How do
2:21:34
Speaker 1: you think constituents can actively work to rebalance that power
2:21:37
Speaker 1: dynamic so that Washington handles the big picture issues like defense, trade,
2:21:40
Speaker 1: and foreign policy, while local leaders are empowered to address
2:21:42
Speaker 1: the issues that directly affect our communities. Well, look, I
2:21:46
Speaker 1: think this is an incredible great question. What I love
2:21:51
Speaker 1: about it is that it's going to allow me to
2:21:53
Speaker 1: rant about the loss of local media, because ultimately that's
2:21:56
Speaker 1: the issue. So I think this is a couple things
2:21:59
Speaker 1: have happened. Right, you got rid of right, a man
2:22:02
Speaker 1: named Craig decided classifies out to be free, YadA, YadA, YadA.
2:22:05
Speaker 1: We suddenly had no more local news. And when what
2:22:09
Speaker 1: happens is when you don't have anybody covering locally, When
2:22:16
Speaker 1: local residents are upset about something happening locally, they're none
2:22:21
Speaker 1: from They're not familiar with who their local officials are
2:22:24
Speaker 1: because there's nothing to follow locally, so they're more likely
2:22:27
Speaker 1: to know who the national officials are or who their
2:22:29
Speaker 1: congressional officials are, so they end up gravitating towards the
2:22:33
Speaker 1: federal office holders, towards the names they know, towards their
2:22:35
Speaker 1: senators or congressman because I hear this, you know, you
2:22:38
Speaker 1: get I teach these these and you know, I usually
2:22:41
Speaker 1: have these students that I teach at You see a
2:22:42
Speaker 1: lot of them are interns on the hill and they're
2:22:45
Speaker 1: basically they're they're they're the first line of defense, meaning
2:22:47
Speaker 1: they're answering the phones and they'll get a lot of
2:22:51
Speaker 1: questions sometimes that have nothing to do with congressional with
2:22:53
Speaker 1: federal policy, but their complaints about something happening locally that
2:22:57
Speaker 1: they didn't know how who else to call. So you
2:23:02
Speaker 1: have that issue, right, you got out local news and
2:23:05
Speaker 1: it and you have a less informed local community who
2:23:09
Speaker 1: doesn't know why certain things are happening. There was a
2:23:13
Speaker 1: great academic study, by the way, I believe it came
2:23:16
Speaker 1: out of Stanford that noted that that when local news
2:23:25
Speaker 1: organizations disappear, essentially within a couple of years, that community
2:23:33
Speaker 1: tax bill goes up. Essentially when you get rid of
2:23:37
Speaker 1: the local watchdog government Fiji to death and they can
2:23:42
Speaker 1: sneak in stuff because nobody notices. All of a sudden,
2:23:44
Speaker 1: you're like, huh, there's now a fee to do what
2:23:47
Speaker 1: They just added a new recycling fee and my bill
2:23:50
Speaker 1: here they did this to my water bill. They did
2:23:52
Speaker 1: all these little thing and you're like, and you know,
2:23:54
Speaker 1: it's a five percent surcharge here, three percent surcharge there.
2:24:00
Speaker 1: Things that if somebody knew about it, there might be
2:24:03
Speaker 1: enough people upset about it that there'd be enough of
2:24:06
Speaker 1: a ground swell that the local politician, the local city councilman,
2:24:09
Speaker 1: the local may etc. Would say, better not do this.
2:24:13
Speaker 1: But there is a direct correlation between the lack of
2:24:17
Speaker 1: local news and government essentially abusing its residents with more
2:24:22
Speaker 1: tax and fee hikes. And I think that is the
2:24:27
Speaker 1: and that gets at to the core of the of
2:24:29
Speaker 1: the what your folk, which is you're right, I think
2:24:32
Speaker 1: that it is. I guess my diagnosis is when you
2:24:36
Speaker 1: lose local news, you you deny the population essentially access
2:24:46
Speaker 1: to who all of their government officials are. And the
2:24:48
Speaker 1: irony is that a local elected official has more direct
2:24:52
Speaker 1: impact on the cost of you of your life financially
2:24:57
Speaker 1: than a member of Congress does, or a US senator does,
2:25:00
Speaker 1: or frankly even a president. And you know, because you
2:25:04
Speaker 1: know one of your biggest bills that you pay every
2:25:06
Speaker 1: year is your property tax bill. Well, that's usually decided
2:25:08
Speaker 1: by a county official, a county executive or sometimes a city.
2:25:14
Speaker 1: That's a big deal. Right, Your state income tax, your
2:25:17
Speaker 1: state fees, you know, all the things, all the little things,
2:25:20
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's to register your dog, whether it's
2:25:22
Speaker 1: to you know, get a permit to put up a fence. Right,
2:25:25
Speaker 1: all of this is money you pay to your local
2:25:27
Speaker 1: government directly. So you interact more with government that are
2:25:36
Speaker 1: impacted by people that are elected within county districts or
2:25:40
Speaker 1: city districts than you are with government that's elected between
2:25:45
Speaker 1: congressional districts or statewide. And I think that that unfortunately,
2:25:49
Speaker 1: I think have we always over indexed on covering federal
2:25:54
Speaker 1: and national politics at least this century, we have. I
2:25:58
Speaker 1: think that was the biggest nine to eleven effect. I
2:26:00
Speaker 1: know this is a weird way of saying of invoking that,
2:26:02
Speaker 1: but you know, nine to eleven really also was an
2:26:05
Speaker 1: accelerant to nationalizing all news, including local news, became sort
2:26:09
Speaker 1: of derivative of national news because it was like we
2:26:12
Speaker 1: were in the shared you know, the shared environment. So
2:26:14
Speaker 1: it's just the nationalization of news consumption really sort of
2:26:19
Speaker 1: arguably really accelerated right after nine to eleven. And you know,
2:26:25
Speaker 1: I think that we need to really sort of. That's
2:26:29
Speaker 1: that's where my that's that's where the efforts are. I've
2:26:32
Speaker 1: been trying to make remember local news days April ninth,
2:26:36
Speaker 1: we basically an awareness day. Is the more people get
2:26:40
Speaker 1: back to following finding ways to follow local news, the
2:26:42
Speaker 1: more they're going to realize how much more their lives
2:26:45
Speaker 1: are impacted by these local officials, as you point out, Tonovan,
2:26:48
Speaker 1: so terrific question, Thank you for it. Next question comes
2:26:51
Speaker 1: from Sean King, Colorado. Shawn asked, now, with Christy Nome
2:26:53
Speaker 1: being kicked to the curb, I was wondering if she
2:26:56
Speaker 1: has or had ambition to run for president twenty twenty eight.
2:26:58
Speaker 1: I got the impression that with all our as the
2:27:00
Speaker 1: DHS and taxpayers paid for, it was more than just
2:27:03
Speaker 1: educating people on immigration and airport security, but positioning herself
2:27:06
Speaker 1: so that she could draw interest as a candidate. I
2:27:09
Speaker 1: mean seeing her wear DHS caps, cowboy hats, and riding
2:27:11
Speaker 1: horses during her commercial struck me that she was trying
2:27:13
Speaker 1: to brand herself as a badass woman. Did you get
2:27:17
Speaker 1: that impression? And do you think that now she's out
2:27:20
Speaker 1: of Trump's orbit, she may have squandered her chances? Love
2:27:22
Speaker 1: your podcast, keeping coming man one thousand percent. I mean,
2:27:27
Speaker 1: there's no doubt. You know, Corey Lwandowski, who was her
2:27:30
Speaker 1: chief political aid, and some would argue more than just
2:27:34
Speaker 1: a chief political aid, was absolutely as somebody who was
2:27:38
Speaker 1: the first campaign manager for Donald Trump. You know, he
2:27:43
Speaker 1: was also the chief advocate of Christy Nome to be
2:27:46
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's running in twenty twenty four. In fact, he
2:27:49
Speaker 1: made no secret he had gotten polling con done and
2:27:53
Speaker 1: he shared it with me and he shared it with
2:27:55
Speaker 1: a lot of reporters in twenty twenty four that showed
2:27:58
Speaker 1: he had polling that showed Chris adding more a Trump
2:28:02
Speaker 1: Nome ticket performing better against Harris than a Trump Vance ticket.
2:28:07
Speaker 1: So he there absolutely this was always about that. There
2:28:12
Speaker 1: was some chatter that maybe she'd primary Mike Rounds, who's
2:28:16
Speaker 1: up for reelection this cycle in twenty twenty six. I
2:28:19
Speaker 1: believe that's not going to happen, and especially the way
2:28:24
Speaker 1: she was kicked to the curb, and it's all, you know,
2:28:26
Speaker 1: he gave her a job, member, he moved her. Technically,
2:28:28
Speaker 1: she's got some made up job that he created about
2:28:32
Speaker 1: the Western hemisphere. I think that was just designed to
2:28:39
Speaker 1: not have her wandering around unemployed, talking trash. About the
2:28:43
Speaker 1: Trump administration or Stephen Miller or others to reporters. So
2:28:49
Speaker 1: I do think her presidential ambitions are derailed. But I
2:28:51
Speaker 1: will tell you this, if John Thune decides not to
2:28:53
Speaker 1: seek re election in twenty twenty eight, and I will
2:28:56
Speaker 1: say this, I have no reason that think that he's
2:29:01
Speaker 1: not going to seek reelection. But if Senate, if the
2:29:09
Speaker 1: Democrats won the Senate and Thune's and it somehow costs
2:29:12
Speaker 1: thune Is leadership post after the twenty six midterms, then
2:29:17
Speaker 1: I don't think he seeks election twenty eight. Then I
2:29:20
Speaker 1: would say that's the most likely landing spot for her
2:29:24
Speaker 1: would be the US Senate in an open seat if
2:29:27
Speaker 1: John Thune chose not to run in twenty eight. But look,
2:29:31
Speaker 1: I think she wants to run for president. I think
2:29:33
Speaker 1: she has that ambition. I just think that the realistic
2:29:38
Speaker 1: paths are blocked for her, and I think if she is,
2:29:44
Speaker 1: if she wins office in twenty twenty eight, it's more
2:29:46
Speaker 1: likely to be an open US Senate seat in South
2:29:49
Speaker 1: Dakota than it is an open presidential seat in a
2:29:54
Speaker 1: national election. Question. Robert R. He says, like your podcast
2:30:02
Speaker 1: and the new one as well, excellent Dynastic check it
2:30:04
Speaker 1: out with Jay Don. Also, we tried wild Grain and
2:30:08
Speaker 1: are now going to subscribe. Man Hey, wild Grain. Look
2:30:11
Speaker 1: at that use the code people. Product's great. Appreciate your
2:30:15
Speaker 1: comments on it. You're like Shack endorsed things, endorsed things
2:30:19
Speaker 1: you use, dorse things you use. Question do you think
2:30:22
Speaker 1: trumble Invader on Robert R. Yes, you're right. I am
2:30:25
Speaker 1: more comfortable it has always been. You know, Look, I
2:30:30
Speaker 1: am I am not naive to how the business of
2:30:33
Speaker 1: independent media works. I am not shy. I'm a capitalist.
2:30:38
Speaker 1: I am there. You know. I I'm not going to
2:30:43
Speaker 1: let crooks sponsor me. I'm not gonna let unethical people
2:30:46
Speaker 1: sponsor me. But you know, I hope you know. I'm
2:30:51
Speaker 1: not going to guarantee that every sponsor I have is
2:30:53
Speaker 1: a sponsor I use, is a product I use. But
2:30:57
Speaker 1: we do we do our best event these folks, that's
2:31:00
Speaker 1: for sure. Well Trump Vada ran, Well that was I
2:31:10
Speaker 1: guess in some ways, you're you're asking a question that
2:31:12
Speaker 1: I left you an open answer at the start of
2:31:15
Speaker 1: this podcast, Right, I think it's a I think it's
2:31:20
Speaker 1: more likely that there are some boots on the ground
2:31:23
Speaker 1: to deal with the straight of hor moves than him
2:31:25
Speaker 1: completely pulling out. If you were to ask me, which
2:31:29
Speaker 1: is more likely now, I think we will. We will
2:31:36
Speaker 1: having debates whether what he does is an invasion or not.
2:31:40
Speaker 1: Is it boots on the ground or is it simply
2:31:42
Speaker 1: boots on the straight of coastline, on the straight of
2:31:45
Speaker 1: horm moves right like that sort of business. I think
2:31:48
Speaker 1: that's it is. Do I think we're going to be
2:31:54
Speaker 1: marching on the streets of Tehran? I do not, But
2:31:58
Speaker 1: I think the likelihood that there are American boots in
2:32:01
Speaker 1: Iranian territory is pretty high. So I guess if I
2:32:07
Speaker 1: could draw that distinction know and Tehran, yes, on the
2:32:10
Speaker 1: coast near the Strait of Ormuz. Next question comes from
2:32:15
Speaker 1: Mike and Honolulu. He says, I really appreciate the comments
2:32:20
Speaker 1: and how the Iran War continues to unravel and demonstrate strained,
2:32:23
Speaker 1: if not damaged, relationships with allies and what feels like
2:32:25
Speaker 1: a low attention of decades two decades of scenario planning
2:32:30
Speaker 1: in the region. Also saw Wall Street Journal coverage of
2:32:32
Speaker 1: the American Board Citizen one Carlos Valencia Gonzales taking over
2:32:35
Speaker 1: Mexico's most powerful drug cartel and so wondering how degraded
2:32:38
Speaker 1: our intelligence community is, and who is advising the administration
2:32:40
Speaker 1: on probable outcomes that have a far reaching impact. Thanks
2:32:43
Speaker 1: for your work, Mike Honolulu. Well, Mike, I have a
2:32:45
Speaker 1: bigger problem in the intel community, and I'm not going
2:32:48
Speaker 1: to I don't want to be careful. I don't want
2:32:49
Speaker 1: to get any of my sources in trouble on this.
2:32:52
Speaker 1: But it's pretty clear to me that we have two
2:32:57
Speaker 1: things simultaneously happening in the intelligence commit at the moment.
2:33:01
Speaker 1: Number one is they do not paint the full picture
2:33:05
Speaker 1: for this president. Whether it's because they don't want to
2:33:09
Speaker 1: tell them things he doesn't want to hear. I think
2:33:11
Speaker 1: that's most likely the reason. When you look at Tulsa Gabbert,
2:33:14
Speaker 1: John Radcliffe, Ratcliffe at the CIA, Gabbard's at d and I,
2:33:18
Speaker 1: these are two people who do not want to be
2:33:20
Speaker 1: in it, you know, who are more accustomed to telling
2:33:23
Speaker 1: they got to where they got because they tell Trump
2:33:25
Speaker 1: what he wants to hear. So you have that issue
2:33:29
Speaker 1: issue too within the IC, meaning the intelligence community, is
2:33:32
Speaker 1: you have professionals who've been there for decades, work sources
2:33:35
Speaker 1: for decades, who don't trust the political leaders in charge
2:33:40
Speaker 1: of their departments. I think that they follow the law
2:33:48
Speaker 1: and they report what they believe they need to report
2:33:51
Speaker 1: to their superiors. But I think that if you told
2:33:58
Speaker 1: me that they're not getting the best work because of
2:34:04
Speaker 1: the lack of trust, because their fear that their sources
2:34:08
Speaker 1: will get exposed for the wrong reason. So I just
2:34:12
Speaker 1: my concern, and I have more than just speculative concern
2:34:16
Speaker 1: about this. I'm just going to leave it at that.
2:34:20
Speaker 1: My concern is that that we've had that the fault
2:34:23
Speaker 1: that you've had the following impact on intelligence gathering. It's
2:34:31
Speaker 1: clear Trump is seen as an irresponsible actor when it
2:34:35
Speaker 1: comes to intelligence. He shares it with everybody. He doesn't
2:34:39
Speaker 1: respect classifications, right, it is he is a he is
2:34:44
Speaker 1: a and he uses no secure phones. He's just a
2:34:47
Speaker 1: he is a he is just a walking target. You know,
2:34:54
Speaker 1: every single major intelligence agency that is semi adversarial, and
2:34:59
Speaker 1: some who are friends have access or ties to Trump,
2:35:03
Speaker 1: both electronically or literally bought people off inside his circle.
2:35:10
Speaker 2: You know.
2:35:11
Speaker 1: It is it is so you have that issue. So
2:35:15
Speaker 1: what does that mean? What it means is the strength
2:35:19
Speaker 1: of the American intelligence community has been its sources in
2:35:22
Speaker 1: other countries and its relationships We have the best intelligence
2:35:26
Speaker 1: agencies in the globe. And part of it is because
2:35:31
Speaker 1: we work in tandem with so many other excellent intelligence agencies,
2:35:35
Speaker 1: whether it's with the UK you have the Five Eyes program, Canada, UK,
2:35:38
Speaker 1: New Zealand, Australia You've got MASAD, you know, but you
2:35:44
Speaker 1: know these other intelligence agencies that we rely on for
2:35:49
Speaker 1: a lot of our work. You know, it's not just
2:35:51
Speaker 1: what we do, it's some shared with Key Alive. They're
2:35:55
Speaker 1: well aware that Donald Trump's a leeker. They're well aware
2:35:59
Speaker 1: that there are way too many rogue actors who have
2:36:03
Speaker 1: classified security clearances who can't be trusted. And so it's
2:36:10
Speaker 1: just what you have is a slow it's sort of
2:36:14
Speaker 1: a slow motion train wreck. Right. It starts with our
2:36:19
Speaker 1: own rank and file being skeptical. Right at first, it
2:36:22
Speaker 1: starts with the cycle. Right, you have the people in
2:36:26
Speaker 1: charge who brief the president, who are slightly sycophanic and
2:36:30
Speaker 1: already or curating that. I mean, my god, they have
2:36:33
Speaker 1: to make a video of him every day to show
2:36:35
Speaker 1: the Iran war. They can't give him a verbal briefing.
2:36:38
Speaker 1: They have to show him pictures. I'll let you make
2:36:41
Speaker 1: your joke about that. So it begins there right, Gabbert
2:36:46
Speaker 1: and Ratcliffe aren't going to tell him bad news. Ratcliffe
2:36:52
Speaker 1: and Gabert aren't going to get the professional They're getting
2:36:57
Speaker 1: a limited view from their rank and file because their
2:37:01
Speaker 1: rank and file want to protect their sources, and so
2:37:05
Speaker 1: there's some limitations of what's making its way to them.
2:37:10
Speaker 1: Then our professional rank and file, their counterparts are also
2:37:16
Speaker 1: withholding from them. Maybe not because they don't trust their
2:37:20
Speaker 1: American counterpart, but they don't trust what happens once that
2:37:23
Speaker 1: intelligence makes it into the American system. So you tell me,
2:37:32
Speaker 1: I am you know if of course we're missing things
2:37:36
Speaker 1: left and right in this administration because I don't believe
2:37:40
Speaker 1: the intelligence community. Do I believe we still have the
2:37:44
Speaker 1: ability to have world class intelligence and know exactly what
2:37:48
Speaker 1: the hell's going on all over the world. Yeah, goddamn right,
2:37:50
Speaker 1: I do. But when you look at all the different
2:37:55
Speaker 1: choke points that likely limit important information getting to the
2:38:00
Speaker 1: commander in chief, sometimes intentionally, other times unintentionally, you see
2:38:07
Speaker 1: where this becomes a problem. So is it a shock
2:38:09
Speaker 1: to me that we're kind of blindsided, Whether it's about
2:38:12
Speaker 1: an American taken over a cartel, we're not one hundred
2:38:15
Speaker 1: percent sure of that, or you know us not knowing.
2:38:22
Speaker 1: You know, the fact that she's family members have family
2:38:25
Speaker 1: members that live in the United States and seems to
2:38:29
Speaker 1: be something our intelligence community is not that interested in anyway.
2:38:34
Speaker 1: I throw all this out there. It's a terrific question,
2:38:38
Speaker 1: but it's something that really concerns me. And if you
2:38:41
Speaker 1: told me we're going it is. The likelihood that we
2:38:45
Speaker 1: get blindsided by some attack somewhere has never been higher.
2:38:50
Speaker 1: And it's because we've alienated allies, We've created distrust and
2:38:56
Speaker 1: they're sort of built in skepticism, and we oh, this
2:39:00
Speaker 1: president doesn't trust the intelligence community anyway. So you throw
2:39:05
Speaker 1: I mean, they could give him all the briefings in
2:39:07
Speaker 1: the world, and he may not accept the premise because
2:39:09
Speaker 1: he thinks are all secretly out to get him anyway.
2:39:13
Speaker 1: So put all that together and you draw your conclusions.
2:39:15
Speaker 1: Do you think the president's getting the best intelligence briefings
2:39:20
Speaker 1: that are to be gotten? I think we know the answer.
2:39:25
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Brandon ce. I'm old enough to
2:39:28
Speaker 1: remember the nineteen ninety four midterms and the Republican Contract
2:39:31
Speaker 1: with America, and since then, control of Congress has won
2:39:33
Speaker 1: back and forth quite a bit. Given the lack of
2:39:35
Speaker 1: a clear democratic policy alternative to megastyle conservatism. Right now,
2:39:39
Speaker 1: do you think Democrats could benefit from putting forward a
2:39:40
Speaker 1: similar platform ahead of an election, and if so, what
2:39:43
Speaker 1: kinds of policies would actually be most politically effective to include?
2:39:47
Speaker 1: You know, Brandon, I hope you listen to the Johnny
2:39:49
Speaker 1: oh interview. He basically offered up something like this that
2:39:55
Speaker 1: he you know, I said, when you know that, there
2:39:57
Speaker 1: needs to be some tangible ways, you know, and he
2:40:01
Speaker 1: seems to be somebody that doesn't want to just make
2:40:03
Speaker 1: it all about Trump if they get power back that instead,
2:40:06
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's sort of an agenda that is
2:40:10
Speaker 1: bills you could pass in the moment that maybe Trump signs,
2:40:14
Speaker 1: and then bills that you're essentially setting up to be
2:40:16
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty eight platform to take through the American
2:40:19
Speaker 1: people for I don't know, call it project twenty twenty nine,
2:40:23
Speaker 1: right if Democrats think they're going to get the trifectave
2:40:27
Speaker 1: by them. But I do think some sort of clear agenda,
2:40:34
Speaker 1: But I don't know if it's going to be possible,
2:40:35
Speaker 1: because I think you're going to have some Democrats running
2:40:39
Speaker 1: hard on Trump, hard on accountability of Trump, hard on
2:40:43
Speaker 1: We're going to you know, feat the the fire, all
2:40:45
Speaker 1: that business, impeached Bondye, impeach Trump, and peach this and
2:40:49
Speaker 1: peach that. I do think you're going to have some
2:40:52
Speaker 1: Democrats that they are not a majority of the candidate's running,
2:40:54
Speaker 1: but enough that it kind of comes up the messaging
2:40:59
Speaker 1: like I don't think you're going to have And I
2:41:01
Speaker 1: might argue that this party because it goes back to
2:41:04
Speaker 1: my opening monologue in today's episode that I think you
2:41:08
Speaker 1: have a party that that you know, the establishment's not trusted.
2:41:12
Speaker 1: So if they put out some sort of contract, would
2:41:14
Speaker 1: it be embraced or would it be seen as why
2:41:17
Speaker 1: is Washington trying to tell us what to do with
2:41:19
Speaker 1: the voters these days? Right? So I just don't know
2:41:21
Speaker 1: if it's if it's organizable. I mean, do I think
2:41:24
Speaker 1: it would be smart to have, you know, twenty six?
2:41:28
Speaker 1: You know here's twenty six is probably too many. I
2:41:33
Speaker 1: remember Democrats said something six and o six. You know,
2:41:37
Speaker 1: you know you could do eight and eighteen, right, I
2:41:39
Speaker 1: guess you could do six and twenty six, or you
2:41:43
Speaker 1: could do twenty six bills if you wanted. But some
2:41:51
Speaker 1: sort of tangible pledge. Maybe it's just maybe it's on
2:41:57
Speaker 1: social media, something on social media and tech, on jobs,
2:42:01
Speaker 1: something on cost of living, something on accountability. Maybe you know,
2:42:05
Speaker 1: he's obviously wanting to see a vote on the pardon amendment, right,
2:42:09
Speaker 1: you know, an accountability that's more institutional rather than personal.
2:42:13
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, a combination of ethics, cost
2:42:16
Speaker 1: of living, and democratic infrastructure, you know, have sort of
2:42:19
Speaker 1: a pledge pledge on that. It certainly wouldn't hurt. But
2:42:26
Speaker 1: I guess I'm skeptical this party is organizable right now
2:42:29
Speaker 1: around something like that. I think what Graham Platner wants
2:42:32
Speaker 1: to see, who maybe the nominee in Maine, is different
2:42:35
Speaker 1: than what Tallaerica wants to see, is different than what say,
2:42:38
Speaker 1: Zach Walls or Josh Turkell in iowa't want to see.
2:42:42
Speaker 1: So I think that I think that would be too difficult.
2:42:46
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to stop here. I went long
2:42:48
Speaker 1: on this episode. If you're listening to it, soup the nuts.
2:42:51
Speaker 1: It's a long one way. It's the weekend episode, so
2:42:53
Speaker 1: you have an extra day or two to listen to it.
2:42:56
Speaker 1: Enjoy the opening. Enjoy, and we are spoiled right now.
2:42:59
Speaker 1: We've got great basketball and opening weekend in baseball. Enjoy
2:43:04
Speaker 1: hope the weather cooperates,