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Feminist Movie Friday: 10 Things I Hate About You · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steff.
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told your production of iHeartRadio.
0:19
Speaker 2: And as we were talking about the episodes for the
0:23
Speaker 2: show for the month of May, we realize many of
0:27
Speaker 2: the topics we are bringing are not the most comforting
0:32
Speaker 2: or easy topics, I guess, especially mine. I don't know
0:35
Speaker 2: why I keep going to the dark, but I'm traveling
0:37
Speaker 2: toward the dark side when it comes to episode themes. Apparently,
0:41
Speaker 2: so we thought we would ease into the month with
0:44
Speaker 2: some lighthearted content, right and with the recent twenty fifth
0:51
Speaker 2: year anniversary celebration of the classic Ten Things I Hate
0:55
Speaker 2: About You, I decided I needed to force any into
1:00
Speaker 2: watching the classic and have a moment to talk about
1:05
Speaker 2: the good, the bad, and the not so greatly aged
1:09
Speaker 2: I guess content of the nineteen ninety nine retelling of
1:14
Speaker 2: The Taming of the Shrew again Ten Things I Hate
1:18
Speaker 2: About You?
1:20
Speaker 3: Yes, Annie, what did you think about the movie?
1:22
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. I had fun. I watched it last night. Yes,
1:25
Speaker 1: this was my first time watching it. I thought it
1:30
Speaker 1: was really fun. I left feeling like, oh, in a
1:35
Speaker 1: good mood, and it had a lot of stuff that
1:38
Speaker 1: I related to as I've talked about this before, but
1:46
Speaker 1: in high school, I was definitely like the feminist, but
1:48
Speaker 1: I was afraid of the word feminist, so I would
1:50
Speaker 1: never call myself that. But I was definitely like this
1:53
Speaker 1: character where I was. I was the one that was
1:57
Speaker 1: why are we doing this and not this? So I
1:59
Speaker 1: really add to a lot of it in it. I
2:02
Speaker 1: enjoyed that, and as we were discussing, the music was
2:05
Speaker 1: a real a real throwback.
2:06
Speaker 3: There's a throwbacks and there's so many throwbacks in this thing.
2:10
Speaker 2: The outphits, the classic ouphits, the type like baby Doll
2:14
Speaker 2: t shirts, which I think they're all making a comebacks
2:16
Speaker 2: or have made comebacks through and through.
2:20
Speaker 3: I loved this movie.
2:21
Speaker 2: This is when I was still in high school, so
2:23
Speaker 2: definitely my time frame for sure. This was the introduction
2:27
Speaker 2: of Heath Ledger, which is why you had said that
2:29
Speaker 2: you did not watch.
2:32
Speaker 1: It's why I didn't watch an Okay, yeah, yeah, which
2:37
Speaker 1: I still have not seen.
2:38
Speaker 3: Which I loved that one as well. Both of these.
2:42
Speaker 3: There was this whole era.
2:43
Speaker 2: And I was talking about this earlier around like this time.
2:46
Speaker 2: This was right in the back in the middle of
2:47
Speaker 2: taking classics and doing a retelling, so Clueless was one
2:52
Speaker 2: of those. She's all that was one of those Bridget
2:56
Speaker 2: Jones diary as we had already watched that was one
2:59
Speaker 2: of those. Apparently I got all caught up into all
3:01
Speaker 2: of these at a younger age as well. I was
3:05
Speaker 2: just surprised. One of the surprises that I got was
3:07
Speaker 2: that The Lion King was based on Hamlet, and I
3:11
Speaker 2: was like, oh, well, that makes sense, but I didn't
3:14
Speaker 2: think about it at that point, like it's one of
3:16
Speaker 2: those things like, oh, okay, loosely, yes.
3:19
Speaker 1: You know. The funny thing too here is that's really
3:22
Speaker 1: throwing me for a loop. It's the twenty fifth anniversary
3:26
Speaker 1: of Star Wars The Phantom Menace. So when I when
3:29
Speaker 1: this was out, I was watching that, which.
3:33
Speaker 2: Would have been probably Cameron and Michael, who are the
3:38
Speaker 2: nerdier ones of this movie, would have watched that as well,
3:41
Speaker 2: but that was never referenced.
3:43
Speaker 1: Obviously. Obviously, Yes, it's just odd. I didn't know that
3:49
Speaker 1: they were in the same time, you know what I mean.
3:51
Speaker 2: The things that you hit you're like, oh interesting. Two
3:55
Speaker 2: thousands was a lot a lot. Nineteen nineties to early
3:59
Speaker 2: two thousands was a lot. So the movie is written
4:03
Speaker 2: by Karen McCullough and Kirsen Smith, who also wrote She's
4:06
Speaker 2: the Man, which I referenced before, which is another movie
4:09
Speaker 2: loosely based on Shakespeare's play as well, and also they
4:13
Speaker 2: also wrote Legally Blonde together, so they're they're you know,
4:17
Speaker 2: they're dynamic duo. This was directed by Gil Junger, which
4:21
Speaker 2: takes place in a prominent high school in Seattle with
4:24
Speaker 2: a bunch of very rich, well to do kids. I
4:27
Speaker 2: don't think it ever really implies that they are, but
4:30
Speaker 2: the school alone was like a castle. Yeah, so I'm
4:33
Speaker 2: I'm gonna assume they all got they got away with
4:36
Speaker 2: a lot, So I'm assume that this is like private school,
4:39
Speaker 2: which is how illistated.
4:41
Speaker 1: Archery and stuff like. That's that's fancy, right.
4:44
Speaker 3: So I'm like, I'm gonna go with that.
4:47
Speaker 2: So this is has a cast that makes up the
4:50
Speaker 2: list of nineties All Stars essentially. The movie shows the
4:54
Speaker 2: interworkings of young people in the day in the life
4:56
Speaker 2: of high school growing up. So not my high school.
5:00
Speaker 2: Definitely not my high school, but kind of, I guess.
5:04
Speaker 2: So we have Julia Styles as kat Larissa Oulinik, which
5:09
Speaker 2: of the Secret World of Alex Mack.
5:11
Speaker 3: Did you ever watch that? No, do you know what
5:13
Speaker 3: I'm talking about?
5:15
Speaker 1: Nope, Oh, okay.
5:16
Speaker 2: This is a Nickelodeon show that was huge at one point,
5:19
Speaker 2: and she had a big following of people. This was
5:21
Speaker 2: our first, I want to say, first movie after her
5:25
Speaker 2: big fame, so people were really excited to see her
5:27
Speaker 2: in this role. She plays the sister Bianca, who lives
5:34
Speaker 2: with their opprotective father played by Larry Miller. And yeah,
5:38
Speaker 2: the father does a great job in penning the girls
5:40
Speaker 2: against each other.
5:41
Speaker 3: That's the first thing I thought. I was like, Wow,
5:43
Speaker 3: this is really bad parenting. But okay.
5:45
Speaker 2: Then we have Cameron, a new student who falls in
5:48
Speaker 2: love with the Bianca played by Joseph gordonvitt Levitt, who
5:51
Speaker 2: was also pretty huge at this point. His new best
5:53
Speaker 2: friend Michael played by David Crumholtz. We have outside players
5:58
Speaker 2: such as Joey quote eat Meat, Donner You're welcome, played
6:02
Speaker 2: by Andrew Keegan, who was getting big things to Seventh Heaven.
6:06
Speaker 2: I don't remember that this is These are the things
6:07
Speaker 2: that I remember in high school that I was like, Oh,
6:10
Speaker 2: these are big people. People were really excited to see
6:12
Speaker 2: them together. We also have Chastity, Bianca's best friend, played
6:17
Speaker 2: by the icon, Gabrielle Union, who has said has been
6:21
Speaker 2: in several of these, like nineties movies, like the nineties
6:24
Speaker 2: early two thousand movie, and she still looks the same.
6:27
Speaker 2: And of course the bad boy himself, Patrick Verona, played
6:31
Speaker 2: by Heath Ledger. Yes, this was my tradiction to him,
6:34
Speaker 2: as I said before, And we're going to shout out
6:36
Speaker 2: to Alison J. D playing the not so helpful erotica
6:39
Speaker 2: writing high school guidance counselor, who was great, perfect for.
6:43
Speaker 3: That role, to be honest.
6:45
Speaker 2: So let's jump into the plot. Cat and Bianca are
6:49
Speaker 2: polar opposite sisters, but Bianca is the cheery, popular girl
6:53
Speaker 2: that the boys all fall for, while Kat is an
6:56
Speaker 2: angry anti establishment type who was ready to leave her
6:59
Speaker 2: home to bigger and better things I Sarah Lawrence College.
7:05
Speaker 2: Their father is an overprotective type and has to come
7:07
Speaker 2: more so after their mother left, which is a problem
7:11
Speaker 2: for Bianca, who is not allowed to date even though
7:14
Speaker 2: there are so many invites from so many boys, including
7:17
Speaker 2: the most popular. After a brief argument, the father will ents,
7:21
Speaker 2: saying she can date if her sister Cat, who has
7:25
Speaker 2: sworn that she would never date any of the high
7:27
Speaker 2: schoolers or there until she does. With that, we have
7:32
Speaker 2: Cameron and geeky friend Michael coming up with a plan
7:35
Speaker 2: to get Cat a date, and the only person they
7:38
Speaker 2: could find who could live up to that challenge is
7:40
Speaker 2: the scary dude who may or may not have been
7:42
Speaker 2: in jail, Patrick Verona. With the financial assistance of Joey,
7:46
Speaker 2: who is also trying to date Bianca, they get Patrick
7:50
Speaker 2: to woo Kat, so all these adventures happen. After some
7:53
Speaker 2: hard work and manipulation, Kat agrees to go to a
7:57
Speaker 2: party with Verona, which allows for beyond to go out
8:00
Speaker 2: with Joey, who she was always.
8:02
Speaker 3: Intending to date. This was an intent to her.
8:05
Speaker 2: At the party, we have the drunken dancing performed by
8:07
Speaker 2: Julia Styles, which apparently they were going to give her
8:10
Speaker 2: a choreographer because the director was dating Paula Abdul at
8:14
Speaker 2: the time.
8:15
Speaker 3: This was I was like what what?
8:18
Speaker 2: Who? I also, I love Paula Duel love loved I
8:21
Speaker 2: can't tell you how much. Oh my god, anyway, going
8:24
Speaker 2: back to but she refused and did this on her own,
8:28
Speaker 2: so props to Julia Styles. Then we have Bianca realizing
8:32
Speaker 2: she doesn't actually like Joey but likes Cameron We have
8:36
Speaker 2: this awkward scene later of Kat being rejected by Verona
8:40
Speaker 2: for a kiss because she was too drunk and he
8:43
Speaker 2: was respecting that boundary. Yes, she got real drunk because
8:46
Speaker 2: she was annoyed by the party and what the establishment
8:49
Speaker 2: was doing, so you know all those things, which you know,
8:51
Speaker 2: had this real sweet conversation between the two. Yay. But
8:54
Speaker 2: there also because Bianca decides she didn't want to hang
8:58
Speaker 2: out with joe anymore, gets stranded, gets a ride from Cameron,
9:01
Speaker 2: and they have a sweet kiss as well.
9:02
Speaker 3: Da da Da da da.
9:04
Speaker 2: Later we have Patrick making it up to her with
9:09
Speaker 2: an impromptu performance of Can't Take My Eyes Off You
9:14
Speaker 2: in front of everyone with the band of course, and
9:17
Speaker 2: being chased by security people, which leads to another date
9:21
Speaker 2: where they go and throw paint balloons at each other. Yes, yes,
9:27
Speaker 2: I just thought that was an interesting scene. Then we
9:30
Speaker 2: soon find out that Kate had actually dated Joey and
9:36
Speaker 2: he had pressured her into having sex and then she
9:38
Speaker 2: didn't like it, and so she said she wasn't gonna
9:40
Speaker 2: do it anymore, and then he dumped her, which is
9:42
Speaker 2: why she doesn't like him at all.
9:44
Speaker 1: Hello.
9:45
Speaker 2: But that all is good, as they all decide to
9:48
Speaker 2: go to the prom, where Kat finds out that a
9:51
Speaker 2: Verona actually was paid to take her out, even though
9:56
Speaker 2: he tried to gaslight her and be.
9:58
Speaker 3: Like, why do you think I have some motives? I
10:00
Speaker 3: don't have any mode of it's just because I like you.
10:03
Speaker 2: Lies, But yes, Kat finds that out there Bianca had
10:10
Speaker 2: gone out with Cameron and found out that she was
10:13
Speaker 2: a bet for Joey, which wasn't actually true. He said
10:15
Speaker 2: he was gonna do for fun, but whatever, and she
10:17
Speaker 2: punches him in the face. Fun scene twice twice. And
10:22
Speaker 2: then we have Kat being very sad and they all
10:28
Speaker 2: have an assignment, which was to rewrite the Sonnet, Shakespeare's Sonnet.
10:33
Speaker 2: She gets up and reads hers and it has infamous
10:36
Speaker 2: I don't hate you, not even little, not even at all,
10:38
Speaker 2: apparently was shot in one take because she was so
10:41
Speaker 2: good at it. And then later we have Verona apologizing
10:46
Speaker 2: by giving her the guitar that she'd been eyeing throughout
10:48
Speaker 2: the entire movie, and end scene everybody's happy. Yeah, was
11:11
Speaker 2: there a favorite scene for you in there?
11:14
Speaker 1: There are a couple standouts. I really liked the montage,
11:18
Speaker 1: the sports montage where she's like pissed Roona. I really
11:24
Speaker 1: liked that part. Yeah, yeah, that just felt fair like
11:28
Speaker 1: if I had been younger and I'd seen that, I
11:30
Speaker 1: had been like, hell yeah, I did like the junk
11:36
Speaker 1: dance that was that you had told me it was
11:40
Speaker 1: something like that was going to be in there, and
11:42
Speaker 1: I was not anticipating that.
11:44
Speaker 2: According to Mini excerpts, this is how she ended up
11:49
Speaker 2: getting the role for Save the Last Dance because they
11:51
Speaker 2: saw her doing table scene and they're like, oh, she can dance.
11:54
Speaker 2: She's a white girl that can dance. Let's use her.
11:56
Speaker 1: Yes, she apparently it is another movie I need to watch.
12:00
Speaker 3: Its need is a strong word. Did I love it?
12:04
Speaker 2: I loved it, But it was along the same lines
12:07
Speaker 2: of me also loving Romeo Must Die. Uh Okay, there's
12:12
Speaker 2: just like like grittiness that really wasn't there, That really
12:16
Speaker 2: wasn't like it wasn't that low anyway. But you know, Aliah,
12:20
Speaker 2: I loved Romeo Romeo Must Die. It might be one
12:22
Speaker 2: of my top like twenty movies for sure anyway, But
12:26
Speaker 2: for some reason, that was around the same timeframe for
12:29
Speaker 2: me those two movies. M M.
12:32
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one anything. The list got longer
12:35
Speaker 1: and longer.
12:36
Speaker 2: I think I have an excuse to bring that one
12:37
Speaker 2: to you either, Well.
12:41
Speaker 1: We'll see, we'll see. I did like that, like passing.
12:46
Speaker 1: I liked the passing feminist like comments you would make,
12:51
Speaker 1: because every time I watch an older movie, I'm kind
12:53
Speaker 1: of like, oh wow, yeah, surprise, surprise. They were talking
12:56
Speaker 1: about it then too, which I know is terrible, of
12:58
Speaker 1: course they were, but sometimes especially I don't know, rom
13:02
Speaker 1: com teenage ish movie, but I liked it. It's like, oh.
13:07
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah.
13:09
Speaker 2: It definitely had a little more umph and depth than
13:13
Speaker 2: your typical teenage romance movies, where you see that is
13:18
Speaker 2: okay to not be smiling all the time, and she
13:20
Speaker 2: was the perfect character, like apparently. In an interview she
13:23
Speaker 2: recently did for the twenty fifth anniversary and for her
13:26
Speaker 2: upcoming projects, Julia Stiles was talked about how she was
13:30
Speaker 2: told so many times that you need to have a
13:32
Speaker 2: better persona. You need to be cheerier, you need to
13:35
Speaker 2: be like smiling. You seem kind of like, you know, unapproachable.
13:39
Speaker 2: But this role was so perfect for her because that
13:42
Speaker 2: was what they needed. That they needed someone unapproachable and
13:45
Speaker 2: who even though she could be, she didn't have to
13:48
Speaker 2: be you know, something else. You could just be there
13:52
Speaker 2: was the resting face essentially that got her this role.
13:56
Speaker 2: But yeah, so talking about the movie, So I'm calling
13:59
Speaker 2: this the part the themes and discussions, but more just
14:01
Speaker 2: a discussion about the movie because I think there's so
14:03
Speaker 2: much more in that, Like there's not a lot of
14:06
Speaker 2: just like this is the point, this is a point.
14:07
Speaker 2: It was definitely just one of those entertaining movies that
14:11
Speaker 2: had a good feel to like, uh, turning a classic
14:15
Speaker 2: into something different and more approachable in the late nineties
14:20
Speaker 2: because definitely teaming of the show because you know, I
14:22
Speaker 2: talked about the different renditions that were out there and
14:26
Speaker 2: we were all like, yeah, this is not this is
14:28
Speaker 2: not it because essentially, like the original version is like
14:32
Speaker 2: he's really abusive, trying to get her to submit to him.
14:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I was thinking about this too, because if
14:40
Speaker 1: you've never read it, I mean she is the shrew obviously. Yeah,
14:43
Speaker 1: and we still today get called that, like women who
14:47
Speaker 1: are allowed or have like a quote shoal voice, like
14:51
Speaker 1: Shrew's something that is lobbed against women a lot. And yeah,
14:56
Speaker 1: so it's basically him wearing her down and taming her
15:04
Speaker 1: because that's what's good for her, that's what's better for her.
15:06
Speaker 2: Right and for everybody in fallow society obviously, But they
15:11
Speaker 2: took this and kind of flipped it on the head
15:12
Speaker 2: of like being a feminist and what that looks like
15:16
Speaker 2: and how you can you can bring in both levels.
15:20
Speaker 3: There is a little.
15:21
Speaker 2: Bit of an intersectionality hinted as we have the African
15:24
Speaker 2: American professor who was like, oh, I feel so bad
15:27
Speaker 2: for you, poor witch, upper class white girl, like, can
15:29
Speaker 2: you tell me more of your woes? Like coming in
15:33
Speaker 2: like we almost hit it, but we don't quite hit that.
15:39
Speaker 2: You do. You have like a very like all white
15:43
Speaker 2: cast except for the supporting two black characters, And you're like,
15:46
Speaker 2: h m hm, cool, I guess uh. And of course
15:51
Speaker 2: I'll go ahead and jump into the fact that yes,
15:54
Speaker 2: the very bad like African crew or the Rastafarian crew
15:58
Speaker 2: are all white people wishing they were black with bad dreads.
16:01
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh god, at least I didn't
16:03
Speaker 2: do blackface.
16:04
Speaker 3: I will give them that.
16:10
Speaker 1: I know.
16:11
Speaker 2: I know, but from that time frame, yeah, you never know.
16:17
Speaker 3: It's true even today but even worse.
16:19
Speaker 2: But like you're like, oh, like there's a point of
16:22
Speaker 2: like they are making fun of them, at least like
16:24
Speaker 2: they're not trying to encourage it and be like this
16:26
Speaker 2: is obviously ridiculous, this is just go with it. Still
16:31
Speaker 2: pretty racist, I don't think an aged Well, I get
16:34
Speaker 2: what they were going for, and there were those people
16:37
Speaker 2: that exist, so we know that they were there. But yeah,
16:42
Speaker 2: so again there was also the question, and I think
16:44
Speaker 2: it's a very good question, like they how much they
16:46
Speaker 2: loved the character in several of the articles that I
16:48
Speaker 2: read of Kat except for the one thing is like
16:51
Speaker 2: she is so dismissive and a little bit antagonistic towards Bianca,
16:57
Speaker 2: who is not like this, and the fact that you
16:59
Speaker 2: know they're different. There are types of women and that's okay.
17:01
Speaker 2: If a woman really likes dating and wants to wear
17:06
Speaker 2: the makeup and have a different type of fashion, all
17:08
Speaker 2: those things are okay too, And like it kind of
17:12
Speaker 2: hinted at the fact that during this time frame and
17:14
Speaker 2: still today about this like pitting women against each other.
17:18
Speaker 2: And this was from one of the articles. Actually, this
17:20
Speaker 2: was from the article from the New York Times they
17:24
Speaker 2: had did with Julia Stiles. It says in two thousand
17:27
Speaker 2: and two, according to the self appointed cultural anthropologist at
17:30
Speaker 2: Newsweek magazine, there were exactly three types of teenage girls
17:34
Speaker 2: in America. You could be an Alpha, a blonde who
17:37
Speaker 2: loved cheerleading, worship Gwynneth and Vogue, and managed to be
17:41
Speaker 2: both chee and nice. You could be a beta, which
17:45
Speaker 2: was basically an aspiring alpha. Beta's reportedly took diet pills
17:49
Speaker 2: as after school snacks, spent after prom at a motel,
17:52
Speaker 2: and were tragically brunette. Or you could be a part
17:56
Speaker 2: of the rising cohort of Gamma girls Buffy, the them
18:00
Speaker 2: Pish Layer, watching flair jeans, wearing freethinkers who are obsessed
18:04
Speaker 2: with Shakespeare, dated the class smart, and subscribed to Jane magazine,
18:09
Speaker 2: the poster child for the Gamma girl Julia Styles. And
18:13
Speaker 2: I guess you, Annie, as you said, if you're a
18:17
Speaker 2: teenager at that point, I.
18:19
Speaker 1: Mean, I don't think obsessed with Shakespeare, but I was
18:22
Speaker 1: obsessed with like tragedies, So.
18:30
Speaker 3: I did think that was an interesting article.
18:33
Speaker 2: And Julia Styles's comment that I was like, ah, I
18:36
Speaker 2: remember seeing this, and I remember really hating the fact
18:39
Speaker 2: that why are they trying to compare me to other girls?
18:41
Speaker 3: This is so silly?
18:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, like, I think there's a difference
18:46
Speaker 1: between because this feels very pitting against other girls. It
18:49
Speaker 1: also feels like in this case, you are rooting for
18:53
Speaker 1: Julia Styles, I would say, in this movie, yeah, so
18:55
Speaker 1: it feels like then all of the femininity that she
18:58
Speaker 1: rejects is bad or worse. But instead, I think in
19:02
Speaker 1: the movie, it's more she was hurt by this dude.
19:06
Speaker 1: She's kind of put these walls up. She has some
19:10
Speaker 1: like I would say, very accurate points, good points, good thoughts,
19:16
Speaker 1: but in the end they sort of come together and
19:19
Speaker 1: balance each other out, like her sister Bianca, Yeah and
19:22
Speaker 1: her and so I think in the movie it's less
19:26
Speaker 1: of pitting them against each other, although the element is there.
19:30
Speaker 1: And but this feels very like she was better right
19:34
Speaker 1: than your classic girly girl.
19:37
Speaker 2: Right, I mean definitely the moments between Beyanka and Chastity
19:40
Speaker 2: was interesting, especially towards the end, like they were competing
19:42
Speaker 2: with each other for being the only sophomore prom and
19:45
Speaker 2: having the date and all these things, which is a
19:48
Speaker 2: whole different level of questions, which they did Chastity's character
19:52
Speaker 2: dirty because why would.
19:53
Speaker 3: She flip like that?
19:54
Speaker 2: Like it yeah nit, But it definitely did not hold
19:58
Speaker 2: to like being friends friends, which I wish they had
20:03
Speaker 2: a little more of but it's okay. Instead it was
20:04
Speaker 2: like Henchman, I guess, type of thing like Lackey's for
20:09
Speaker 2: them for everyone apparently, But I think for that era
20:12
Speaker 2: during that time, it definitely was a lot of that.
20:14
Speaker 2: We definitely saw that Christina Aguilera versus Britney Spears tropes,
20:19
Speaker 2: any of the young popular stars. They were all against
20:22
Speaker 2: each other. It was interesting that they continue to do
20:25
Speaker 2: like that until oftentimes these stars would either quit or
20:29
Speaker 2: just spiral during this time. So we definitely saw a
20:33
Speaker 2: lot of that, and I feel like that was that
20:35
Speaker 2: era in itself. And yeah, they had the pinning of
20:37
Speaker 2: like blonde versus brunettes, which is still I think we've
20:41
Speaker 2: talked about this as a full episode in itself. It's
20:43
Speaker 2: just like why was this the thing?
20:45
Speaker 3: And I guess, why is this a thing?
20:48
Speaker 2: When hair color really can be changed so quickly and
20:51
Speaker 2: does change on its own so quickly, says I, with
20:54
Speaker 2: the amount of gray hairs that are coming. That's in fact,
20:56
Speaker 2: I think like I had jet black hair too, like
20:59
Speaker 2: less jet like it's still black, but it's still like
21:01
Speaker 2: you can tell it's less. So like it's such an
21:03
Speaker 2: odd thing, this conversation, like your blonde or your brunette
21:07
Speaker 2: or your a redhead, and you were all didn't like
21:09
Speaker 2: to be friends.
21:09
Speaker 3: You're like, that's interesting.
21:12
Speaker 1: We've talked about this in several episodes. It's it is
21:15
Speaker 1: strange to me how much we associate certain personality things
21:21
Speaker 1: with hair type, hair color. It's it is very strange
21:27
Speaker 1: and it's enduring. We still do it.
21:30
Speaker 2: I mean, like even the hair type though, like being
21:33
Speaker 2: curly versus not curly, Like it's short versus long.
21:36
Speaker 3: Like if it's short, you're obviously tho.
21:38
Speaker 2: If it's tied back all the time in a ponytail,
21:40
Speaker 2: then you're obviously this Like it's right, so many Yeah.
21:45
Speaker 1: We talked about that in the episode we did with
21:47
Speaker 1: the Bob where it calls like a national panic. Like
21:51
Speaker 1: we still do that though, when a when like a celebrity,
21:55
Speaker 1: a woman cuts her hair and it's short, it's like,
21:57
Speaker 1: what's happened to her?
22:01
Speaker 3: Did you just go through a breakup? Don't don't don't
22:04
Speaker 3: do a girl.
22:06
Speaker 2: It's an odd concept, but it was very I feel
22:09
Speaker 2: like these are very reminiscent of those times. As we
22:12
Speaker 2: said up of course earlier about the bad stereotypes, the
22:15
Speaker 2: fact that they had them.
22:16
Speaker 3: It was very clueless as well. That was like that.
22:23
Speaker 2: Was your high school like that because you were you
22:25
Speaker 2: were several years younger than me. I was already probably
22:27
Speaker 2: out of college when you were in high school. Like like, oh,
22:34
Speaker 2: the stereotypes, like the jocks. They had cowboys, which we
22:38
Speaker 2: had f f A guys. They weren't cowboys, but they
22:42
Speaker 2: were f f A like they were specific to a
22:45
Speaker 2: future Home Amerkers Association, and then f f A which
22:49
Speaker 2: is Feature Farmers of America, which is funny because my
22:53
Speaker 2: brother was a part of that.
22:54
Speaker 3: We are not a farming family. Never happened.
22:58
Speaker 2: No, yeah, he's become more. He does own goats. I
23:01
Speaker 2: found that out recently. I'm very cute anyway, But like
23:06
Speaker 2: we had bad instead of cowboys, and they definitely did
23:09
Speaker 2: hang out the jobs. I guess there was a group
23:11
Speaker 2: of jocks that did hang out, but again this was
23:14
Speaker 2: my time frame. Yeah, but the drama kids, so we
23:18
Speaker 2: all split. There were so many different types of people,
23:21
Speaker 2: so like we had the head cheerleader being the lead
23:22
Speaker 2: actress in drama. We had the like the lead football
23:26
Speaker 2: quarterback as in drama, and then we had people who
23:29
Speaker 2: were outsiders. I guess for quote unquote all intents and
23:33
Speaker 2: purposes who were also a part of drama. So that
23:35
Speaker 2: drama was really interesting and it may even because of
23:37
Speaker 2: our teacher who was amazing, But like it wasn't We
23:42
Speaker 2: didn't have dramakas. That was not a thing, because dramakas
23:45
Speaker 2: could be anything that makes sense.
23:48
Speaker 1: We had drama kids. They I would say, like, we
23:52
Speaker 1: definitely had the sports and then the popular popular group yeah,
23:56
Speaker 1: and then kind of your heavy metal music gos crew.
24:04
Speaker 1: I was in the like we're nice, you can sit
24:06
Speaker 1: here group, yeah, but the drama kids would sometimes would
24:12
Speaker 1: mix because we we are also where a lot of
24:14
Speaker 1: us were in drama. But there was a specific group that.
24:17
Speaker 2: Was like, are you in the Thespian Society? No, I've
24:24
Speaker 2: made in the Thespian Society within the first year because
24:28
Speaker 2: I did so many hours as a stage manager.
24:32
Speaker 3: It was awful anyway, I love drama.
24:35
Speaker 2: Being the stage manager without any experience was real dumb
24:38
Speaker 2: because I was the stage manager for a competition and
24:40
Speaker 2: she just put me in there, like you know what
24:42
Speaker 2: you're doing.
24:42
Speaker 3: I was like, no, I don't.
24:43
Speaker 2: Because I also gave the ore that was I was
24:45
Speaker 2: organized and I am not.
24:48
Speaker 3: We know this not so.
24:53
Speaker 1: But Hey you got, I got.
24:55
Speaker 2: I'm in the part of the National Thespian Society anyway.
24:59
Speaker 2: But yeah, like we definitely didn't have all of that.
25:02
Speaker 2: I think I was more of the I go, I'm
25:05
Speaker 2: just here. I'm not the cool kid, but I'm not
25:08
Speaker 2: the nerdy kid. I wasn't in band which bands like
25:13
Speaker 2: band geeks.
25:15
Speaker 3: I'm saying that as a title. I'm not calling you
25:17
Speaker 3: geeks if you're a band. I was.
25:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like they have their own crew of people,
25:23
Speaker 2: like they hung out with just themselves. I was like,
25:26
Speaker 2: they were like if drama kids were there, it was
25:29
Speaker 2: the band group, you know what I mean. And they
25:31
Speaker 2: were a force, like they would win homecoming, King or
25:37
Speaker 2: Queen because they were a force. I was like, huh, okay,
25:41
Speaker 2: so people, so you don't mess with them, You don't
25:48
Speaker 2: mess with them.
25:51
Speaker 3: We talked, we talked about the music I do.
25:53
Speaker 2: I think like the thing about this soundtrack that was
25:57
Speaker 2: a little different is that they had a lot of
25:59
Speaker 2: like in women led bands, and I really really appreciate that.
26:04
Speaker 2: So the Cardigan's letters to Cleo, Say Ferris obviously Jon
26:10
Speaker 2: Jet and the Black Hearts, which was at the very beginning.
26:13
Speaker 2: We also laughed because they had bare naked ladies at
26:16
Speaker 2: the very beginning too, and it threw me into like
26:19
Speaker 2: so many like throwbacks to that white hilarious, but yeah,
26:22
Speaker 2: like I really appreciate that they brought those to front.
26:25
Speaker 2: They were popular in their own right, a lot of
26:28
Speaker 2: skuf of course, say Ferris, I think it was music,
26:33
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, that's all.
26:35
Speaker 1: Right, yes, And if you haven't seen the movie, you
26:38
Speaker 1: could probably tell from the plot breakdown. Music is very
26:43
Speaker 1: important to cats, and that's one of the things that
26:45
Speaker 1: they like, the dudes trying to help him scheme how
26:50
Speaker 1: to get her to woo her, they'd like find out
26:53
Speaker 1: her favorite music and all of this stuff, and it
26:56
Speaker 1: was pretty comical because she'd be like you like in
27:00
Speaker 1: certain fantier and he's like, oh, yeah, don't you, And
27:05
Speaker 1: then he'd be all like, I can't believe you'd question
27:09
Speaker 1: my taste. Leave me alone.
27:12
Speaker 2: Of course, there's also the really like sexist like I
27:15
Speaker 2: would never listen to that music. That's chick music, right, yes,
27:19
Speaker 2: which came through a few times. Yes, of course, you know.
27:23
Speaker 2: They also talked about Sylvia Plath, the feminine mystic. But
27:26
Speaker 2: all these things I found fairly funny because I was like,
27:30
Speaker 2: you can't take deeper, but it's okay. Sylvia Plath had
27:34
Speaker 2: a hard life, had a hard, hard life, short life.
27:49
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:49
Speaker 2: And then of course, if we did talk about anything
27:51
Speaker 2: and be like themes, it'd be the family sisterhood, like
27:54
Speaker 2: the rival, like there was this level of discontent within
27:57
Speaker 2: the family after the mother left, and whether it caused
28:00
Speaker 2: him to be whether the father to be overly protective
28:03
Speaker 2: and trying to keep them near him, or the sisters
28:07
Speaker 2: to try to find their own selves. The Bianca finding
28:12
Speaker 2: her items and using them, whether it is ci mental
28:15
Speaker 2: or just because she thinks it's pretty. You kind of
28:17
Speaker 2: don't get that hint, but I think it's somewhat sentimental
28:19
Speaker 2: as the youngest daughter. And then you have the angry
28:22
Speaker 2: cat who wants to forget her and blame her for
28:25
Speaker 2: their troubles, partially blame her for her troubles their troubles
28:28
Speaker 2: as well. You have that breakdown, but they do come together.
28:31
Speaker 2: It's not the sweet sweet like, oh, they're gonna be
28:34
Speaker 2: best friends, but it's just like an understanding of one another.
28:38
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, because I think that's how she convinced Kat
28:43
Speaker 1: to go to promos, Like Bianca convinced her to go
28:46
Speaker 1: to promise like you went, I want to go. This
28:48
Speaker 1: is like my time. I really want to do this.
28:53
Speaker 1: Don't you understand that? Like, can we please do that?
28:56
Speaker 1: And that's why Kat went. But she wasn't. There was
28:58
Speaker 1: no like I'm so happy to go. But she was like,
29:02
Speaker 1: all right, I've heard you, I understand you. I will go.
29:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do this. He wants me to go. We'll
29:12
Speaker 3: have fun.
29:12
Speaker 2: In the story, and then somehow this dude who is
29:15
Speaker 2: the troublemaker ends up bringing her favorite band letters to Cleo.
29:21
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't understand, but okay, Cole, you
29:24
Speaker 2: do you that's amazing, which, by the way, is a
29:27
Speaker 2: reference in Parks and rec as well, because Ben loves
29:31
Speaker 2: that is his favorite band.
29:34
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't really know who they were.
29:37
Speaker 2: The shirt and he's sit in the back like laughing
29:40
Speaker 2: and like enjoying it.
29:41
Speaker 3: She winks at it. He's like, oh my god, she
29:42
Speaker 3: winked at me.
29:43
Speaker 1: I love it.
29:44
Speaker 2: So many years later, if there was a theme, of course,
29:47
Speaker 2: Shakespeare would be all into this, including the Sonnet, which
29:52
Speaker 2: which I love like it was I think in this
29:55
Speaker 2: era that we had where if you made it somewhat
29:57
Speaker 2: hip hop then you made it cool. We have now
30:01
Speaker 2: become a trope and like everybody laughs at it.
30:04
Speaker 3: This is during that era, and.
30:07
Speaker 2: We have this Sauna that now in famous Sunna that
30:09
Speaker 2: she writes about hating him and everything he does, but
30:12
Speaker 2: then she doesn't really hate him.
30:14
Speaker 1: Uh.
30:14
Speaker 2: And then we have Mendela, Cat's best friend we just
30:17
Speaker 2: we don't talk about. She was in center stage in
30:20
Speaker 2: the era too, with a ballet movie all the things
30:26
Speaker 2: I remember anyway, and her actual love for Shakespeare to
30:31
Speaker 2: the point that she says, I am involved. And she
30:34
Speaker 2: gets that invite to the prom with Michael as posing
30:39
Speaker 2: as Shakespeare.
30:40
Speaker 1: Yes, somehow I managed to forget that detail. I don't
30:48
Speaker 1: know how.
30:49
Speaker 2: I don't know how. Here's some fun facts. I always
30:53
Speaker 2: love funding fun facts. Apparently Gordon Levin's and Styles actually dated. Oh,
31:00
Speaker 2: they went to Colombia together, essentially. Later on turns out
31:05
Speaker 2: that Ola Nick, who was the sister Bianca, went to
31:08
Speaker 2: Sara Lawrence.
31:09
Speaker 3: Uh oh yeah.
31:10
Speaker 2: Later on I thought that was really fun. I was like, oh,
31:14
Speaker 2: that seems cute.
31:16
Speaker 3: Uh.
31:16
Speaker 2: There was a conversation about them doing a second one
31:20
Speaker 2: to this, but after he led his death, I think
31:23
Speaker 2: that kind of like faded away. There was a conversation
31:27
Speaker 2: about him changing the movie completely and talking about mental
31:31
Speaker 2: health and mental illness, uh, and even suicide.
31:35
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
31:37
Speaker 2: That this is the director talking about him to want
31:39
Speaker 2: to do something, but I can't imagine it being.
31:44
Speaker 1: Oo yeah, that would be incredibly difficult to pull off.
31:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know who would actually be like, yeah,
31:54
Speaker 2: let's go watch this. They also talked about that this
31:58
Speaker 2: was going to be on Broadway. I think they're still
32:00
Speaker 2: talking about it, so I don't I don't know. It
32:05
Speaker 2: makes sense kind of kind of.
32:08
Speaker 1: I mean, plenty of things we've talked about in here before.
32:11
Speaker 3: Yeah.
32:11
Speaker 1: I when I read they have a Broadway version, I
32:14
Speaker 1: was like, really, but apparently it's good, So I believe
32:17
Speaker 1: it could happen.
32:19
Speaker 3: Apparently it's good.
32:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, And overall, I think when we talk about these movies,
32:24
Speaker 2: we do talk about whether or not has it aged well?
32:27
Speaker 2: And I think the answer is better than some but
32:31
Speaker 2: still like, there's still some mortage and insults in here
32:33
Speaker 2: that are like ouch, y'all didn't have to say that,
32:36
Speaker 2: but I guess. But from that time, and I think
32:39
Speaker 2: probably when I was that age and that type of
32:41
Speaker 2: insults were okay and not looked down upon. We all
32:47
Speaker 2: use that those not like it's not really it is extreme,
32:51
Speaker 2: Like there's so many like ablest type of conversations, sexist
32:54
Speaker 2: types of conversation, real like shame slut shaming conversations in
33:00
Speaker 2: here that people were like.
33:01
Speaker 3: That's so funny.
33:03
Speaker 1: Wait what Yeah, that's almost more like more of our
33:08
Speaker 1: attitude has changed around it, like, yeah, so drastically that
33:12
Speaker 1: it feels very Oh my gosh, I can't believe we
33:15
Speaker 1: were laughing at that, yeah, or something like that.
33:18
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, I can't believe that we were okay
33:20
Speaker 2: with this type of speech. It is reminiscent of the
33:24
Speaker 2: time where when you know, Dawson's Creek came out and
33:27
Speaker 2: everybody was in awe that teenagers were speaking so eloquently
33:32
Speaker 2: with like, you know, for syllable words that no one knew.
33:36
Speaker 3: The meaning of.
33:38
Speaker 2: So because like that same level of this, apparently they
33:42
Speaker 2: were originally looking at Katie Holmes and James Vanderbeek as
33:46
Speaker 2: being the leads for this as well.
33:48
Speaker 3: I don't I can't imagine it.
33:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be a different I think the vibe
33:54
Speaker 1: would have been different.
33:55
Speaker 2: The vibe, but yeah, what Katie Holmes character in Dawson's Creek.
33:59
Speaker 2: Is that of anti establishment as well.
34:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's the She's definitely the bookie Brunette, the bookie Brunnette.
34:09
Speaker 1: I want someone who's never watched that either, But I
34:12
Speaker 1: just that was what I thought.
34:15
Speaker 2: I watched the first two seasons, and then I think
34:18
Speaker 2: I got in trouble.
34:19
Speaker 1: I was watching it.
34:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, then I shouldn't be watching it because it was.
34:23
Speaker 2: There were sex no, oh dear, and that can't be
34:28
Speaker 2: happening on teenage shows.
34:30
Speaker 1: I remember there was a conversation about I believe it
34:34
Speaker 1: was Katie Holmes character Joey like snuck into a guy's
34:38
Speaker 1: through the window and it was this huge like everybody
34:43
Speaker 1: was talking about it. And at the time I was
34:46
Speaker 1: like a teenager, like what like.
34:48
Speaker 3: There was this level.
34:51
Speaker 2: But if you had a guy best friend and you
34:53
Speaker 2: grew up that close to them, it made sense.
34:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't even know if it was sexual.
34:58
Speaker 2: Sure, it wasn't ever far Like what started happening was
35:01
Speaker 2: that he started realizing and she's always had a crush
35:04
Speaker 2: on him, as it goes, but she he started realizing, Oh,
35:08
Speaker 2: she's she's actually a girl and she's developing. Oh look
35:12
Speaker 2: at those legs. I also remember Michelle Williams came in
35:16
Speaker 2: and I can't remember why she ended up moving, but
35:19
Speaker 2: she was so like obviously sexualized from Jump that people
35:25
Speaker 2: were having a hard time, Like parents were.
35:26
Speaker 3: Like, you shouldn't be watching this.
35:28
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that blonde.
35:32
Speaker 2: Hair, that damn blonde hair made her do it, made
35:38
Speaker 2: her be this. But yeah, so I think this is
35:42
Speaker 2: if you've never watched it before, understand like pursued with caution.
35:47
Speaker 2: This is a nineteen ninety nine movie and it.
35:50
Speaker 1: Shows Yeah, And I think it's interesting because to me,
35:55
Speaker 1: when I watched it, I was like, wow, this is
35:57
Speaker 1: so much like less offensive than I thought it would be.
35:59
Speaker 1: But that's because I kind of grew up with that stuff, right.
36:02
Speaker 1: But if you're if you didn't, yeah, and you go back,
36:05
Speaker 1: then I think it's very shocking.
36:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of because I remember it with so
36:11
Speaker 2: much funness that I forgot, you know what I mean, Like, well.
36:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I've always recommended I don't have kids,
36:21
Speaker 1: but before I would show anything to a kid that
36:23
Speaker 1: I have memories for, I would rewatch it first.
36:27
Speaker 2: I don't remember being too this wasn't it too sexual
36:29
Speaker 2: at least as in like showing anything, but they definitely
36:33
Speaker 2: talk about things.
36:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's this is unique to
36:41
Speaker 1: this movie at all. Clearly it was based on Timming
36:44
Speaker 1: of the Shrew, but it is the whole like idea
36:47
Speaker 1: of paying a guy money to trick a girl into dating,
36:52
Speaker 1: and there's there's some kind of manipulation.
36:59
Speaker 3: Think the like cut scenes.
37:00
Speaker 2: They actually have a moment where the sister has a
37:03
Speaker 2: reckoning because it's obviously is Bianca's partial doing and trying
37:07
Speaker 2: to manipulate her sister. But like you don't actually ever
37:10
Speaker 2: see this in Yeah, the show is just all on
37:14
Speaker 2: Heath Ledger, which.
37:15
Speaker 3: Is still bad. He did it.
37:16
Speaker 2: He definitely did all the bad things. But you were
37:18
Speaker 2: like no one talking about the fact that Cameron was
37:20
Speaker 2: the one that was manipulating behind the scenes, Him and Michael.
37:24
Speaker 2: Nobody they got off scot free, Okay, yeah, because it
37:28
Speaker 2: was like it's strange that it was their plan to
37:31
Speaker 2: so Cameron could date beyond, but she cat was the fallout,
37:36
Speaker 2: like they can consider she's just the Shrew.
37:39
Speaker 1: We've got to fix up, got to fix her.
37:42
Speaker 3: You know what's going to fix her?
37:43
Speaker 1: A man, this troublesome man that might have gone to jail.
37:48
Speaker 3: He's losing I may have lost the liver.
37:54
Speaker 1: We'll set her up with that guy.
37:57
Speaker 2: Oh oh, classics, I'm so glady to watch it. I'm
38:00
Speaker 2: glad you liked it, Annie, I do like it with
38:04
Speaker 2: its troublesome things even so.
38:07
Speaker 1: Oh I had fun. I really liked it. So definitely,
38:10
Speaker 1: if anyone was looking for a reason to revisit or
38:14
Speaker 1: to watch her the first time again, go in with
38:17
Speaker 1: this disclaimer. But I recommend it. I thought it was fun. Yes,
38:23
Speaker 1: this will not be I don't even know if we're
38:25
Speaker 1: gonna call it a feminist movie Friday. No, it's not
38:27
Speaker 1: the only movie we're doing this month, because yes, we
38:30
Speaker 1: do have a lot of heavy topics. But as always,
38:34
Speaker 1: if you have thoughts about this or any suggestions, movie
38:38
Speaker 1: or otherwise, you can email us at Seppania mom Stuff
38:41
Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter
38:44
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram in TikTok at
38:47
Speaker 1: stuff I've Never Told You or ulso on YouTube. And
38:49
Speaker 1: we have a tea public store and a book you
38:50
Speaker 1: can get wherever you get your book. Thanks as always too,
38:53
Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, executive producer, My and your concertor Joey,
38:57
Speaker 1: thank you and thanks to you for listening stuff I've
38:59
Speaker 1: never told me the protection of my Heart Radio. For
39:01
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
39:02
Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, Apple podcast or where you listen
39:04
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows,