Latest / The Mentor Sessions / How Being Bought Into Someone’s Potential Changes the Game—In Sports and Life
Transcript
- speaker-0: Hey, welcome back to the mentor sessions. I'm here today in studio with ⁓ my good friend Mike Martin. Mike is a ⁓ he's a good dude. He's been a longtime ⁓ coach. He's coached a lot of young men and young women too, ⁓ in ⁓ in a varied variety of sports. So, Mike, welcome. Thank you for coming back and ⁓ sharing with us your story and and your coaching philosophies. We're excited to hear from you. Why don't you go ahead and take it away? BigMike Coyle: None of us become who we're meant to be alone. Every story has people who helped write it. So let's talk about them. Welcome to the Mentor Sessions. speaker-1: All right, well, ⁓ I just turned sixty. speaker-0: Congratulations. Happy birthday. speaker-1: Thanks. ⁓ there were times in my twenties when I wasn't sure if I was gonna make it. actually times in my fifties when I wasn't sure if was gonna make it. Just because I I it' some in some form I had lost my purpose. So ⁓ kind of returning to the coaching side of things has really kind of helped me get back into ⁓ being really who I I was ⁓ you know, when I really was f setting the example and living ⁓ the way that I should. What is It looks like two hundred and seventy one pounds on on the scale. ⁓ I'm I'm I'm most comfortable ⁓ around two hundred or or below. And and about probably two hundred seventy one days ago I was I I went in for a physical and the the guy was like ⁓ two seventy one. And and it was just absolutely ridiculous that I was at two seventy one because I swore that my you know, I I was like I was to to my wife, Margie, I was like, Hey, ⁓ can you not dry my clothes so long? Because they're not fitting me anymore. They're they're starting it to shrink. speaker-0: Obviously the the dryer's fault, right? Yeah. speaker-1: So so then I was getting ready to go to a a former player's wedding and and I w we're here in Boise and we're getting ready to drive out in a couple of days and so I'm trying to get my clothes and I can't find I don't have anything that fits me in the closet anymore because my wife had dried things too long. And so I I I messaged him and was like, Hey, ⁓ d do you expect people to wear pants? And he's like, I've never known you to wear anything other than shorts. So I'm like, off the hook. We get to the Airbnb and we're there and they had one of those fun house mirrors. And I stood in front of the mirror and I turned side was like ⁓ you know, I was like, this thing is so off. It's making me look ⁓ look fat. And I was still in denial. There's so many levels to my denial. I was I was down about a year ago, I was down at LSU. ⁓ a friend is a a coach there, and he gave me a tour of the the facilities. I go through the locker room and and I get to the Heisman Trophy, Joe Burroughs Heisman Trophy. And I go to take a picture of it and I guess I hadn't updated my phone. Because the selfie that I was trying to take of me with Joe Burroughs Heisman, there was this guy staring back at me that it I didn't recognize. And I was like, ⁓ I must need to update my camera because it's throwing my face off. It's making me look like I'm you know, I'm not the mic that I recognized in there. So it was the camera's fault. speaker-0: So what do you think puts you in a place to cause that weight gain on you? speaker-1: One is I got out of co ⁓ you know, well in in twenty nineteen I was ⁓ I was rushed to the hospital and they said you're going through organ failure and I was like, What? They ⁓ the doctor said we think you about a quarter of a kidney function. And it was a what moment? And I I'm completely healthy. The night before I ran a bunch of ⁓ former players into the ground. I'm 52 years old and I ran them into the ground. And I'm like, let's go another, you let's do another game. They're like, no, we're tired. And I'm like, you're a bunch of babies. And so the next day they I'm like in peak physical condition, especially for somebody that was fifty two. But just for anybody to to be able to run hard for two hours. So the the doctor was like, you know, we think you're going through organ failure. Ran a bunch of tests. Nothing. They never figured out anything that was wrong with me. Well, then the pandemic hit. Okay. And I had stopped doing a bunch of the the physical activity that I was doing and I'd put on probably I my my eating habits didn't change. And so I put on probably, I'm gonna say 10 or 15 pounds. And my bad habits that were masked by my physical endurance that I would do every week, I'd do two ⁓ two days a week where I was just running kids into the ground. And then my eating habits didn't change. I was still eating a bunch of sugar and a bunch of chips and process stuff and I would go down to the store and I was still eating ⁓ the same way. Well then the pandemic hit and everything was shut down. You know, we were living ⁓ in Washington State. Everything was shut down. So just when I was like the ⁓ ready to go back to working out, I couldn't go work out. So then my bad habits continued, but then my exercise was not there and so I went to, you know, probably another thirty pounds. I was probably at two forty by that time. St in complete denial. Okay. I I went from buying larges to extra larges. ⁓ somehow the the you know, the stuff is made in a foreign country where they don't understand ⁓ our sizes. Okay. So the you know it was it was the manufacturer's fault that I was having to now buy extra large. I had to just roll my eyes at my at my denial. speaker-0: Denial. It's funny 'cause back when I was in the law enforcement ⁓ when our awards banquet would come up, ⁓ we'd get a message, I think it was the sheriff who sent it out, but I could be wrong, ⁓ about how, you know, hey, make sure you get your class A's taken care of. We all know that uniform shrinking the shrink in the closet over time and and ⁓ yeah, it's the same I I know the effect all too well unfortunately and you know, I've I'm working on my own my own weight and and stuff and my health because there gets to a point where you realize you need to be healthy less for aesthetics but more for the people around you, the life around you. You know, I I needed to be healthy when I was on the job and I wasn't always healthy. And for me that that was a lot more related to using Food is a crutch. ⁓ in fact when when I worked in custody and the inmates would try to use it and call me offensive names regarding my size. I I would shut them down by just saying you know, we all have our issues. My issues are extremely unhealthy. They're not illegal, but they're unhealthy. Your issues are the same thing, but they're illegal. And you've got to figure out how to deal with them too, and I have to figure out how to deal with mine. And I always found that to be kind of an interesting look on it and that's kinda what would help me get my stuff back together. Like, okay, wait, I have to set the example for them by showing I was dealing with my issues. So I I get what you're saying there. speaker-1: Yeah. So so for for me to kind of return to your question, you asked what the the the purpose. So over the next the next several years, ⁓ up up until, you know, the it was probably two hundred seventy one days ago. the it was the fun house mirror, it was the it was all of these things. And the the trip to Louisiana came before the trip to to to Washington for the for the wedding. And so it was it was a ⁓ you know, it was even worse. I don't even know what a selfie would have looked like when we were at the wedding. But I know what the pant the the shorts that I wore had this ⁓ I had to get some I had some nice looking shorts, but they had the drawstring that I could tie. So i I could adjust that to my weight. And and l really, when I was at the standing at the doctor's office and he said that I was two hundred and seventy one pounds. I knew that I had been heavy and I'd been trying to lose weight. And and the word trying is such a defeatist word. I wasn't losing weight. I was trying to lose weight. I may have I probably got up to 280 when when I started I'd lost weight and then I went for a physical, I 271. And I was all hyped up thinking I've probably was maybe at 250 and And I've been losing weight, I might be at 240. Man, that it it j it's like he punched me in the stomach. My 271 pound stomach. And and as I as I drove home, I made the decision that I was going to stop. But when I was ⁓ before that, I was just in a bad spot where where I had really lost my purpose. I was I was at coaching speaker-0: Is related to that because you went from being active and being with the boys or you know, the athletes, I think is probably the better way to put that. But then you got out of coaching and you say you lost your purpose and that was that drive that you lost, that drive to coach, that drive to be with ⁓ those people. speaker-1: The drive was that I I wouldn't tell my players something that I hadn't done or couldn't do. Right. Okay. It's it's like when I was when I was in Ohio as coaching this baseball team and one of my players I never yell at a player and try to reduce them by yelling or swearing or anything like that, but one of my players let a fly ball drop in front of him. or maybe it went over his head and he ⁓ he could have if he had dove he could have caught it. If he'd put a little bit more effort into it. So I I got somebody up there to to hit the ball for me. ⁓ and and he was like, why don't you show me how to do it? And so 'Cause he th he swore that that was a ball that he couldn't get. And so he he said it in a joking way, you know, like, ⁓ come on, old man, 'cause I was probably forty eighty five at the time. And he was probably like, ⁓ come on, old man, you couldn't do it. Why do I have to do it? So I told my hitter I I was like, Okay, I want you to hit the ball out there as far as you can, and I'm gonna show these kids how to chase down a ball and And dive for it. Okay. And so the dude hit it further than he should have. And I don't know if he was doing it because it he was on the side of the players or to really challenge me, but it turned out to be to be a a challenge. And I so I went out there and I dove for a ball that was like way over my head and I pulled it in and and so that's always how I've been. where I have I've wanted to model for my players that I'm not telling you something that I haven't done, that I can't do, or I won't do. speaker-0: I won't ask you to do something that I won't be willing to try myself. I I get that, I understand that. speaker-1: So so when I got out of showing it to the kids, that's that's where my purpose ⁓ I thought I was getting out of coaching where I actually got out of my purpose. ⁓ because there were there are two guys in my life, Nick Kruger and ⁓ and Russ Grant. And they were guys when I grew up really without a father And those were two guys that that really when I got miss or when I was at a crossroads, okay. They were the they were the one that was like the hand on my shoulder and I'm at the the the the road is either gonna go this way or this way and they would kind of just orient my shoulders just a little bit and get me down the road that I should be going. speaker-0: Tell me what that looked like. Tell me that story. Tell me about growing up. speaker-1: ⁓ ⁓ you know, I I I grew up dirt poor. We got ⁓ three hundred dollars a month ⁓ in in alimony from my dad and that's three boys and my mom. And so I grew up knowing nothing but having to work hard. I mean it i it started when we just moved I'm eight years old and I I would knock on people's doors. Now, this is in Blaine, Washington. It's it's a border town ⁓ right across from Canada. And I would there there's a an abundance of fruit there, fruit trees. And so I went and I would knock on people's doors and I would say, Hey, ⁓ or you have blueberries or you have pears or or whatever they had. And I would say, Do you mind if I pick your ⁓ your fruit before ⁓ you before it goes bad? And ⁓ they'd be like, sure. ⁓ we never have a chance to pick it anyway. So I would pick all their apples and I'd turn around and knock on the door again and I'd say, Hey, do you want to buy some apples? Okay. I had to do whatever I needed to get bring in some extra money. ⁓ I had to paper routes. I had I I took on two extremely rural paper routes when I was a when I was a kid, routes seven ⁓ five and seven ⁓ seven for the Bellingham Herald. And there were routes that they were like these should be a car route. And I was like, I don't care. I need the money. I don't have a car. I'm twelve years old. And so I started delivering Route seven ⁓ seven, which was the most rural route that wasn't run by a car. But I didn't care. ⁓ I took over my brother's Route seven ⁓ five, which was the adjoining route to it. And I just to buy our our first bikes when we moved to Blaine, we were a border town and the the Canadians would throw out their bottles and cans before they would cross back over the border. And so there was a a revenue source right there in those ditches because I don't know if they still do it, but you could get a return on the for the deposit on on the so that's how we bought our bikes to start out. And you know, I was I was the youngest of three boys and my brother had ⁓ he had some ⁓ mm Mediterranean or anyway, some some sort of disease that stunted his growth. So you you have as three boys, you're gonna have hand me downs. So it would go from my older brother to the middle to me, but he had this strange disease that he didn't grow for a year. And so he was always just a little bit shorter. But he would be you know, we would just every year we'd buy new clothes. speaker-0: repeating the theme from when you're an adult your clothes are shrinking and when you're a kid you had the small clothes. You're just used to having clothes too small for ya. speaker-1: Yeah. So so it it went from hand me downs to hand me ups because I'm the bottom of the totem pole and I'm getting clothes that are already an inch too short for my brother and now they're two inches short for me. So I got called floodwaters going, you know speaker-0: My my younger brother, my my brother so I have two sisters and a brother, my younger brother's just a little under me. And ⁓ when he started growing and hit his growth spurt, he grew like a weed but all legs. So I'm like a torso I have a big long torso and he's got super long legs and same thing growing up, he'd get my pants or even when my parents bought him pants, it seemed like it was in no time that they were too short for him. He just had Long, long legs, so I I get what you're saying, 'cause I I remember kids making fun of him and his his long lanky legs, so speaker-1: They so w eventually, you know, it was the it rather than ha doing she would buy pants that were long, too long for us, and hem up the bottoms. And then when you'd when you'd get handed down, ⁓ you know, you could lengthen those. So but anyway it was ⁓ so I grew up with with little to guide me. my mom was i in in her own head unable to handle raising three boys. Yeah. And and so for for me I was ⁓ both both of my other brothers are they were very speaker-0: Well, that's gotta be tough for anyone. speaker-1: not like me, I would I would do the things that that I wasn't made I wasn't a bad kid. I just wasn't like my brothers. And so the things that I would do would would kind of get highlighted as as different than everybody else. So I kind of became I would just do stupid stuff. and ⁓ staying out too late or I would ⁓ just just a lot of different things that and and so speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: But my ⁓ I i it got to be a catch twenty two where I would stay out so that I wouldn't go home and get yelled at, but I get yelled at for staying out. And we're we're as a kid, like five o'clock, right? You know, my mom would walk ⁓ around ⁓ trying to find where I was hanging out this time. One time it was ⁓ it was usually close to the school. It was one time I remember they they were gonna be building or putting some bark in somebody's yard. And I was walking home and I saw this bark and I just stopped and I was just playing in the bark and I was building different things and three thirty became four thirty became five thirty and I'm just completely lost. And here comes my mom. Where have you been? No cell phones, no texting. This is nineteen seventy five. Maybe maybe maybe seventy six. So th you know, the the there was no way to track my location. There was no tax. speaker-0: So what got you into coaching? How'd that come about? Well speaker-1: What got me into coaching was in those times when I was the misguided or whatever you want to say, ⁓ Nick Krueger and and and Russ Grant, they they were that hand on my shoulder that I needed. And after all the stuff that I went through as a kid, ⁓ I joined the army and after the army I went back to both Nick and to Russ and I I said I can't thank you enough for for everything that you did for me. How can I repay you? And I was thinking, you know, I'll clean up your barn, you know, I'll do I'll help you in your restaurant, I'll help you build whatever you need to build. And they both said There's you can't repay us. ⁓ there's no debt there. They s but they said how you can honor us is when you have the opportunity to help somebody that you do. And I knew the type of coaches that I had that I liked and that I didn't like. And so I and the things that I liked about Nick. and Russ that I I knew what type of coach I wanted to be. I it was four years removed from being around coaches that I liked or didn't like and so I I knew who I wanted to be as a coach when I stepped onto the field or onto the coach. speaker-0: So who were these gentlemen to you? speaker-1: They were both ⁓ Russ had ⁓ had horses. ⁓ we lived in a trailer park and he just had horses behind and Nick was a guy that ⁓ you'd miss your bus stop intentionally so you could get out at his driveway and cut through just so that you could hear him. ⁓ Larigee was how he just called all of the kid neighborhood kids. You were Larigis. didn't mean anything. It wasn't a an actual word. It was just a a pet name that he had for all of us. And he'd be in his barn and and y you'd just wait for his high squeaky voice of, hey Larigi. speaker-0: Well, he was just a a neighborhood guy that kinda took the took the neighborhood kids and probably kept an eye on ⁓ while parents were out working. speaker-1: N not even that. He was just a guy that you could go and just hang out with. And you would you you'd make sure your route went through his yard if you're going down to the corner store or off the bus or just to see what he's doing on a Saturday. It was he was just a guy that that had the personality that you forgot that you were dirt poor, that you forgot he didn't care about your background. He didn't care ⁓ about anything except you and really uplifting who you were in that moment. And just just was always ⁓ a positive guy to have around. And Nick was a guy that went to our church. I was friends, I was in the same grade at his as his daughter Karen and good friends with ⁓ his her older brother Todd and And so we were they w we went to the same church. Th ⁓ you know, I was st I would find Nick in church and sit next to him. speaker-0: So he became like a father figure to you? I I speaker-1: He became he filled the the need that I had, but he was I wouldn't really put the father figure because I wasn't around for a lot of those fathering moments. Just in church or in we go over to their house for for lunch quite a bit or, you know, just hang out with Karen and Todd. But so I wouldn't I wouldn't classify him ⁓ he was somebody that I deeply admired, ⁓ the way he lived his life, the way the he did a lot of things. I n I and I know I needed him there as a as a mentor. ⁓ he mentored me without mentoring me. ⁓ he was just there for those shift my shoulder moments for for y just being Some speaker-0: Do you credit ⁓ Nick and Russ for your choice to join the service? speaker-1: No. To to be honest. I was just completely I I had no idea what I wanted to do when I was when I was ⁓ in high school. speaker-0: So what brought y what took you to the army? speaker-1: I had no idea I had no no, I just had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. And so I went in there for three years and I was able to ⁓ kind of like like Alexander Grand Bell Bell when he was inviting the light or Thomas Edison was i when he was inventing the light where you know he a thousand times he got it wrong. And so this was for me that was one of those things, well, check that one off. I know I don't want to be in the army for life speaker-0: What was your ⁓ what was your your ⁓ O S? speaker-1: W OS was twenty six Quebec, which was satellite and microwave c communications. speaker-0: So that taught you some good skills that you could take on the outside. speaker-1: completely away from this. Can I take you down a a ⁓ a st story of stupidity? When I was when I got out of the army, I I moved back to Ohio where my dad lived and at the time it was Bordman, Ohio. ⁓ near Youngstown. Okay. And so I was speaker-0: Yeah. Those are the best kind. Baron, Ohio. Which where's that at? Okay. East side. Yes. speaker-1: I I was fresh out of the army and I I just hated the army and so I flew out to Washington and and I I had a daytimer that that I would put a lot of stuff in and and so I was I I flew out to Washington okay, fast forward six seven, eight years, I'm not sure exactly how many I am I find I'm moving and I find one of my old day timers. I'm like, ⁓ that's what was ⁓ what was all this? So I'm flipping through my day timer and I ⁓ and this business card falls out. And I was like, why do I and I'm trying to think of the the the ⁓ McCall. ⁓ I had the business card for macaw cellular. I was like, why do I have the founder of Macaw Cellular? Why do I have his business card in my daytime? He was w one of the, you know, he was the basically the founder of he got bought out several times by ATT A T Mobile or or whoever. And and I rem I remembered I was like Wait, this is when I was flying. And I remembered that that I was flying next to this guy, flying coach. Okay. Where the guy to my left had said, We are setting up a company that uses microwave communications. And we we're needing a lead technician like you, because I trained with ⁓ with ⁓ with microwave antennas and I had such a bitter taste in my mouth that I was like no no and this was like nineteen eighty eight okay like the beginning of self cellular communications and I sat next to the founder of all of it and I turned down a front end job with the guy to help him set up all the network across the the world. And probably one of the biggest, dumbest decisions I've ever made ⁓ was was not taking that opportunity. speaker-0: We all have opportunities like that where someone comes into our life. I I look at one ⁓ we were newlyweds, my wife and I. I was working at airport security at the ⁓ Boise Airport and this predates what do they call it? TSA and you know, we're we're still five five, six years away from nine eleven. And so it was a private company that's just hired by the airport ⁓ to do that. And so I ⁓ I'm standing there checking people through and this ⁓ gentleman who came through a few times, ⁓ he he comes through and he said, hands me his business card. He goes, Hey, I'm the I'm the sheriff over in Can't remember if he said Bend or Baker, Oregon, one of those. And I was like, ⁓ nice to meet you, sheriff. He goes, Y why don't you come have a have a cup of coffee with me sometime? I made no thoughts about it. I was like, Okay. And you know I took his card, never went. Didn't realize that was an opportunity that would probably have led me down my path a lot sooner than when I actually got on my path, you know, my path in in law enforcement. So I I get what you're saying about like those missed opportunities and and then we have to wonder, like my wife and I were just talking about this this morning. Like, okay, well if we took those opportunities, the different roads we would go down, you know, versus the ones we did go down. So so you went in the army a few years, got out and want decided you wanted to coach? Were you an athlete in school? speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ and and then ⁓ and then when I when I got to Seattle, ⁓ it would just completely by chance I was walking by this ⁓ baseball field and there's this coach that y he's just yelling and screaming at these kids and and Doing everything that in my opinion a coach should not do. embarrassing a player in front of his teammates, ⁓ you know, cussing at the players, ⁓ yelling and and expecting that that's going to motivate them rather than how is belittle did he think that belittling was going to make them better? ⁓ and so as am ⁓ Cutting through this park on to on the way to my apartment, ⁓ I just stopped and I was like, Hey, ⁓ do you need an assistant coach? Is there anything that I can do to help? And he's like, Yeah, if you want to coach these losers, he didn't those weren't his exact words. But that's what he said, and he said it in front of all these kids. If if somebody had wrote written a coaching manual, ⁓ he would have read it backwards and you know, make sure that you yell at the kids, make sure you belittle, make sure you embarrass. He was doing everything that I knew me as a player that I would be like I would shut down. I had a mom that yelled and screamed at me. Okay. I I I made it so that I could tune that out. I had drill sergeants that would yell at everybody. Well Guess what didn't work on me as a player, ⁓ as a as a soldier. Didn't do anything for for me. So when I went to to coach these kids, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. ⁓ and I I you know there was there were some players that that you know, that I s I think about every day, just how just one moment happened that ⁓ that w I was able to change their lives. I had our I took our catcher and moved him to shortstop. Our shortstop I moved to first, our first baseman I moved to catcher. I just took those three players and just kind of slid them around and And b they just we had we took they had the tall guy that they thought had a lot of range, they had him at short. I moved him to first where he had a lot more range where, you know, I want the ball out of your glove quickly, ⁓ and as accurate as the target of the range of your first baseman. And so I could work on their accuracy, but I wanted these guys to just get a quick release. Don't get it and admire it. Get it and get rid of it. Okay. So that's what I wanted from my infielders was a guy with that was a big target. I took the guy that, you know, they always put the least athletic person at first. Well, I had a different philosophy where I wanted ⁓ the worst athlete at catcher, sorry Cal Raleigh. but then I took my my ⁓ the catcher who was a just an absolute bull. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: Bulldog, no no pitch got past this dude. But I wanted that mentality at short. So I took him and I moved him to short. He was the most picked on kid on the team. And so so for for him to go out there to short was for me, I felt like it was also a chance for him to prove because a ball get gets past you, you get another ball, okay? A book ⁓ at catcher. A ball gets past you at short, you get another run, you get another two runs. Right. So I wanted somebody Yeah. And so I wanted somebody who hated failure because that's who everybody viewed him. And so I put it I put him there at short and the dude absolutely thrived. Where speaker-0: Key position in the game. Right. speaker-1: Not he wouldn't let anything get past him. And I and and so I've I I've always kind of where would I want to play if I was that? So I I did that and I used not just their athleticism but their mentality. Okay. And I I took the the guy, you know, anyway so so with with this with this kid, he he was a kid that was picked on by everybody. But moving him to short kind of made him feel mil more respected as an athlete. ⁓ and he really proved and he really earned his keep there. And so just before the start of the season the the coach like quit like tw twenty four hours before the game. speaker-0: ⁓ my gosh. So i you got in on the team like when it was still spring training, if you will, for lack of a better way to put it. speaker-1: And and they hadn't won a game in a couple of years. It was it was ⁓ it was just ⁓ community team. And and but they hadn't won in in at least two years. I I can remember that, but I think it was more than that. It was rare that they would score a run. And ⁓ and ⁓ so he always I think he would just set it up so that he could always be yelling at the kids. I don't know. So so this ⁓ so the speaker-0: High school team was Yeah. Right. speaker-1: The we la we got slaughtered the first game. ⁓ I th I think they s I think they had like a twelve run rule at the time, which now is a ten run rule. And they had ⁓ you know, after five innings, they were up by at least seventeen s and we didn't even score. We didn't even come close to scoring. And and then the second game we We were close, we actually scored and you'd never seen kids so excited that they'd actually scored a run. speaker-0: I know that feeling. speaker-1: But but so we actually had a lead in that game up until things just didn't go our way. And I wanted to see where they were as a team. And so there was a a hedge right before f walking from my apartment. ⁓ there was this hedge that that I hid behind and all the the the people The kids would be dropped off over here. So they had they couldn't see me coming up to the field. So I'm I'm walking up and now I wish this was I could say this was all part of the master plan with these kids, but it was just going with the moment and going with my gut instinct. And so as I'm walking up, I was like, I'm gonna see who these kids are because I got them to be there, not dropped off. 10 minutes be not dropped off 10 minutes after practice has started and apologizing. They knew that they had to, if you're gonna start, if you want to play on this team, you have to be here on time. That's the easiest controllable. And so I decide I'm gonna show up late and I ⁓ I hide behind this this hedge and I am listening to the team talk. And it's about Two or three minutes after, and our little short stop Justin, he says, Guys, let's get up and start warming up because coach would want us to be warmed up. And amid the moans and groans, he got them all out there and gets them ⁓ warming up. And so I walk out for from behind the hedge and I I recognized the voice. I knew it was Justin. And he has them all in a circle warming up. Normally I would pick somebody out because I want everybody to experience what it's like to lead. And so I walk ⁓ I walk up and and and I'm like, who got you guys warming up? And I I made sure that I sounded like I was kind of angry. And and I was like, who got you guys to warm up? And so everybody thinks they're getting Justin in trouble. And and I ⁓ and they're all like, ⁓ Justin did. And so I was like, Justin, get over here. And he he runs over there. And I said, Did you get these players warming up? And he's like, Yeah, yes, I did. And I I'm a big body language type of person when I'm evaluating a player. speaker-0: Right. I'm speaker-1: I'm not not just evaluating their skills or anything else. I'm looking at their speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Their body language, their eye contact, these are all things that I am trying to learn about where they are in their head. Okay. So he comes over and he's not defiant. He isn't defensive. And I and and he he said, Yes, I did. And and then I said, And who normally gets these players lined up? And and and ⁓ and doing ⁓ and this will tell you how long ago I called him calisthenics. so I was like, Who got you guys doing calisthenics? And and who normally does that? And he says, Well you do coach. And I said, And who's the coach around here? He's like, You're the coach, coach. And I said, And who's the captain around here? And It was the only time that he broke eye contact because he's trying to process what I said. And I remember this moment so vividly 'cause he he looked down and he's like he he didn't have an answer. And I I said, You're the captain. Keep him going. speaker-0: You know, that's that's so powerful when you think about it because you went from a situation when you went on the team, the boys from what you were describing were pretty much broken 'cause all they were gonna get when they showed up to practice was yelled at. So why be on time? Why be early? They didn't want to be yelled at for, you know, however long practices, two hours. Their coach treated ⁓ like crap. And then you came to and you transitioned how they saw themselves. You know, Justin was the the the runt of the pack so he is getting bullied and and pushed around. But when you put him in a in a be in a position that one probably suited his skill better but also helped boost his in t his self worth and self value because now he's not just hiding in the back of the ⁓ of the box. ⁓ he has that front center, you know, the shortstop's one of the main positions on the on the team. And ⁓ I'm gonna disagree with you because I think the two main positions are shortstop and catcher. Because the catcher a good catcher has the view of the whole field, but you know that speaker-1: Every single position is the most valuable one on the team. Right. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: It was like you said, I i it i I didn't do it. He did it. He's the one that that said I can be that guy. We needed that somebody to be that guy. Right. Because we were coming around athletically, we were coming around mentally, and we needed something to to kind of tie everything together. But I could do so much, but I've always felt like it had to be speaker-0: Right. It was speaker-1: a the player led team. That is now the common phrase, but I w I've always felt like it had to be a player led team. And so we took the runt of the pack, runt of the litter, and he became the leader of the pack. And you could see a transformation of him like personally. speaker-0: Right. And it wasn't that he the guys didn't have the skill sets. They had the skill set. It was bringing their skill set into their mentality, into their believing themselves that they have that skill set. And that's one of the first important key lessons I think that we can get out of mentorship and get it put into when we're trying to mentor people is like helping them understand I am capable, I do have the skill set, I am able to do this. ⁓ Because that self doubt that we all have is going to be a loud voice to tell us that ⁓ you you can't do this. Why why try? Why push yourself? But once we have someone cheering us on, someone believing us, someone pointing out our value and our worth, then we're able to really show that, hey, I do have the mentality and I do have the skill set to push this forward. Yeah. speaker-1: And and the and the the things that I always say, sometimes all a kid needs is somebody to believe in them, or sometimes all a kid needs is an opportunity, or somebody ⁓ sometimes all a kid needs is somebody to buy into them. And h the team saw that I bought into him and they bought into him. And you you saw a fish in water. Tim at the team before that had been a fish on a bicycle. ⁓ and so that, you know, the team had all of the physical tools. And ⁓ and it would just was, you know, for me after after after I watched him get back out there, get into that, and watch him coach kids up. speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. speaker-1: Okay, where they they knew that I I you know, w when I was talking, I I ⁓ it was me talking and they they they respected that and with him when he was talking they respected that and he there was another player that became the true true straw that stirred the drink, but that was such an important moment I think for him in his life and for me when when I watched him go back over there I I I wish I could call it all part of the plan. I went with a moment and and I went over there and I have I have my coach's clipboard and I'm trying to act like I'm making practice notes or anything. But Just over there just ⁓ just enjoying and listening to these kids grow like I don't know that the ⁓ that they had grown before in in in a big moment like that. And it was such a big moment for me as a coach to you know, because I like I was saying earlier, I always knew what kind of coach I wanted to be. And I wanted to have that connection where those kids looked at me like I looked at Russ Grant, like I looked at Nick Kruger, as a strong, caring figure that was bought into them. That's all I wanted was somebody to buy into me. And so speaker-0: That's all we ever want. That's all anybody wants is someone to you know, you had the experience, ⁓ you know, and and we've talked about this before and we didn't go into much detail on it this morning, but it wasn't you didn't lose your dad, your parents separated, your mom moved to ⁓ moved you and the boys to Washington, your dad was still back in o Ohio and I mean you even mentioned a little bit that you would go back and see him there after you got in the military. But having that That person buy into you, especially when it's someone who doesn't have to buy into you, but they make those choices, Russ and Nick, and then you taking that gift and and passing it on forward to Justin and to the rest of those boys, it helps you feel that worth. When somebody says, You are worth my time, you are worth my energy, and all you're at. I in my opinion, and and maybe you're asking something else, it's not now show me the respect and show me that I'm worth your time and energy. I try to look at it. Show me that you believe you are worth that time and energy. And that's when you see that mental f switch flip where speaker-1: And it it it comes down to trust, okay. I showed them that I was buying into them, okay, which creates trust. So ⁓ that's that's one of the b biggest things of my philosophy on coaching, ⁓ the fear coaching the fear out of kids is the is the the name of my book. And it's it's when you have that level of trust. It makes everything possible. When they trust that when they can go out and screw up that they're not gonna be belittled, they're not gonna be embarrassed, that they're gonna be coached up from that point. And I never ⁓ you know, I I think that where when you can get that trust out of them, you can push them a lot harder than a coach that just yells. Sure. Okay, because speaker-0: You mentioned your book ⁓ Coaching the Fear Out of Kids and that re that comes out soon, right? That comes out hopefully about the time this airs in in July. so tell us about your book and your philosophy 'cause I we've talked about this and you've sent me some screenshots that look like a ⁓ repeating Venn diagram almost to me. But ⁓ show me some of your your your philosophies there and and share that with us. speaker-1: Well and and you know, the the thing and you you it's it is it is almost ⁓ and it this is in my book, but I call y y you remember the old ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ Venn diagram, sorry. ⁓ I can't think of what it's called right now, but it's ⁓ it's a you know, yes button, no button type diagram speaker-1: The w what it what it is, y you remember the old trust fall where somebody stands there and they fall back and it's supposed to build trust. It's supposed to get you let go and build trust with the people around you. In in sports I've I call it a trust fail, where I I break that barrier of protection that the amygdala sorry to go all scientific But the am ⁓ the amygdala in your brain is designed for protection. It wants to keep you in a comfort zone. speaker-0: It's it's early on a Saturday morning. I'm I'm all set for ⁓ early n neuroscience. So yeah, let's go. speaker-1: So the so the amygdala is there for almost exclusively for protection and that that's the common term that they use is for protection. It is designed to keep you in your comfort zone. The the the the thing about and especially in young athletes, their mind is they don't have they call them grooves in psychology, but they don't have the grooves worn in. the ⁓ they're not as ensconced as they are later on in life where the fears are fairly locked in. So you have a huge opportunity to disengage that fear and replace it with trust because fear doesn't just you you you don't get fifty percent of fear. You either have fear or you don't. Right. Okay. And the fear has to be replaced. And ⁓ and the way that as a coach the way that as a coach as those guys that I respected, the coaches that I wanted to be like, the men that I wanted to be like, ⁓ it was love, trust and confidence. That's how you replace fear. as those guys that I respected, the coaches that I wanted to be like, the men that I wanted to be like, ⁓ it was love, trust and confidence. That's how you replace fear. speaker-0: So when you're saying ⁓ coaching the fear out of kids, you're not talking about coaching them where they're not afraid to hit someone anymore, ⁓ as in football or wrestling, you know speaker-1: It's it's the it's purely the fear of failure. speaker-0: Fear of failure and it's the fear of trusting people. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah and because the there are are are a lot of things that where that applies later on in life. ⁓ but but as a coach peop people always ask me why can I why do I get such instant results out of the kids and it's it's it's building that love, that trust and that confidence. Okay. And when you can do that, they ⁓ because the biggest inhibitor To peak performance is fear, because you can't create relentless players and you can't ⁓ create fearless players ⁓ with with fear still being intact. So you have to replace that as a coach. You have to go in there. And I'm not talking about going soft on the kids and not driving them hard because I think it all makes it possible. Because my follow-up book to this is ⁓ is called Love hard coach harder. Okay. Because when you can have that trust and you can have that relationship with the kids, you can drive them so much harder because they know it's out of love, not out of my own ego. I'm I'm not trying to chalk up wins on the scoreboard. I'm trying to chalk up wins with you. And so we go through this trust feel process where. I start out with small little fails where ⁓ I they're set up so that it doesn't feel like a failure, but with with me and my response to whatever they do in in baseball, I'll have a ⁓ a kid, whatever, stand in in an area and I'll I'll hand them a ball of hamlet. Let's see how far you can throw that. And then I act impressed. Okay. But I watch and study their body language, like I was saying. You know, do they do they watch where it lands or are they immediately looking back at me? That that that r I read th those those reactions right there to their throw. And I'll hand them another ball. And I was like, that's a pretty good one, but I think you can do better. And so I let them throw another one. And again, I won't care. I don't even watch the ball. I'm studying the player. And how they throw it, how they throw it with more confidence. If they're like, ⁓ I'm gonna really do this one, I'll read all of those things to see how they respond to me. It's it's a response and what this tells me what type of connection I have with the player. Okay. And then I'll give them a third one. And I'll be like, Man, let that was pretty good, but you got a little bit more in the tank. And so I'll have them throw another one. And again. Don't look at the ball, don't look at the result, look at the behavior. That is what is important at this point in the process. Look at their behavior, their responses there that gives you ⁓ an insight to who you're who you have as a player and how you develop them along the process. So then I give them a ton of power and I said Man, that was amazing. I cannot wait to coach you. Okay. And that's where I've bought they know that I've bought into them. And when I have bought into them, you start to because every player, regardless of the level, they have some sort of fear. Okay. Fear of am I gonna perform to his expectations? And so I when I buy into them and I tell them I'm going to be coaching you hard. I can't wait to coach you. Those words matter to the kids. And when they hear those words, this guy is excited about me and I've ⁓ failed, I you know, the you get instant results out of that. And then there so you're you're building and and I have to have it right here. It's how they react. And then you're going through the process of you're going through those fails. all over again in different levels of practice. And you're trying to rewire their brain further to where they're they're ⁓ the ⁓ the they have more trust, they have more love, they have more confidence, and you keep taking them through the the different levels of failure so that you're re rewiring their brain So that ⁓ after that then you can begin to refine the skills because I'm not worried about refining skills. I'm trying to create relentless effort. speaker-0: So do you think the key to getting an athlete to buy into the team is to have them buy in is to show them that you've bought into them first? Right, but speaker-1: No, they have to buy into themselves. And and how they do that is me buying into them. So the answer to your question is yes, but it comes with an asterisk. You have to buy into them and you have to trust them. You have to love them and you have to have confidence and they have to feel that from you. It's not the other way around. You don't wait until they love you. speaker-0: Maybe I'm not asking the question correctly. Do you feel as if ⁓ You know, teams, when you join a team, they there is an expectation for results, there's an expectation for drives, there's an expectation for these things. But to get them to want to put that effort out, they have to feel like the team is buying into them as an individual as well first. speaker-1: I I'm speaker-0: Does that make sense? speaker-1: It it does that that to me isn't because that's a cultural thing that you have to build along the way as well, because you're not just building a player, individual players, you are building a culture. And I won't I won't tolerate ⁓ anything that that I expect the behavior that I encourage, I you know, the the Love Trust conference extends from player to player. But it it's not something that that I ⁓ speaker-0: Well let's go back to your baseball team, the first team that you really took on coaching in, okay. You you you shifted the players around and now here's Justin that was played s ⁓ catcher. He felt like he wasn't he didn't have much value of the team. That's how the team kind of mocked him and made fun of him. You're just the catcher, you're back there, blah blah blah. ⁓ but when you brought him to shortstop You're buying into him saying, I have trust that you are more than just the catcher, right? And then by putting that trust in him, now he's buying into himself like, I can provide to this team speaker-1: Y you're right. I do I do exactly see where you're going and yes, it is it is buying into him because that was such a big moment for our team. ⁓ a and it was important to the culture of the team. ⁓ so yes, I I certainly do agree, but in in general on teams that I coach, I make sure that the culture is being built along with the individual players. players. So yes, I never really thought of it that way. but yeah, you the the players have to buy into each other, but that's buying into me and my culture or the coach and the culture. speaker-0: So what would you describe your culture as? speaker-1: Fearless, relentl relentless. you know, the Nick Saban has a saying when I ⁓ inter interviewed him for the documentary, the Don James ⁓ documentary called The Dog Father. ⁓ he said kids won't care what you know until they know that you care. Right. And for for me, ⁓ that I I guess I've kind of always known that, that you know, that that the love, trust, confidence has to go to them first in order for them to buy into you. You have to buy into them first. ⁓ And my entire thing is is always let I I never focused on the results. I focused on effort and fearlessness. That I've I've always felt like that is how we will ultimately measure ourselves because ninety nine point nine actually a hundred percent of the kids well no ninety nine point nine percent of the kids that I've coached did not go on to playing pro sports. But they are pro dads. They are pro moms. They are pro ⁓ business ⁓ people that's where they're going speaker-0: And that saying, you know, ⁓ the kids won't know or people won't know how ⁓ speaker-1: They won't know you care until they they they won't care what you know until they know that you care. speaker-0: And I think that's such a valuable point because we can spout our knowledge all day long and it runs off a water like a duck's back until people understand that like, hey, I'm not just giving you this, I'm I'm teaching you a life lesson here and I'm trying to trying to share this 'cause I love you and I care for you. You know, just like just like those two gentlemen that helped raise you, you know, and filled that void is like they probably could have told you anything and I'm sure they they taught you a lot of things, but you knew where it was coming from. It was coming from a place of love and a place of wanting what was best for you. Now at times you may not have agreed with that, right? Like when when our kids were telling them, you know, hey, don't hang out with those people. Don't be doing don't be going to those certain places and they're like, F you, what do you know? And then Over time they see that like, ⁓ he wasn't saying that because he just wants to be a jerk. He was saying that because he cares about me and my life and and the direction I want to go down. speaker-1: ⁓ I've yeah. but y you go back and watch there's there's a video where Doug Peterson, ⁓ coach for the Philadelphia Eagles, ⁓ was coached by the same coaches as me in ⁓ in middle school and high school. Okay, we're both from the same hometown. You go back and you watch what he does just before the Super Bowl game starts. And he goes out there and he's like, Man, we're gonna hit ⁓ harder than they they're not gonna know what No, actually no he's not. He's going out there and he says, I love you, man. He goes around and he's hugging his players and he that's that's his only message. I love you, man. Okay? Because the trust and the confidence is already there and That was the rocket fuel to the peak performance right there because they had no fear. You look at the Philly special play that they ran. They were like, We're gonna do this and we're gonna surprise people. And I have enough confidence in you that if it doesn't work, we're gonna find another way to win. Okay. And it it you know, it was that love, trust, confidence that he had that he showed his players. that there's there's that time building up to the games where players get in their own heads. In big moments they get into their own heads and to hear the coach come up and say, I love you, man. speaker-0: Well, and that's so powerful because and it's not just players, it's everybody in life where we we get to a point where we ⁓ get into our own heads and we lose that faith and confidence in ourself that for someone, a coach, a a spouse, a s a a friend, a close confidant, when they come up to us and you know, a mentor and even a mentee that you're you're helping comes and says Hey, I love you, value, and appreciate you. And it helps hit that reset button that, like, okay, I know what I can do. I know what I'm doing. You know, and you know, I've had that several times coaching with my my my football team or people I've worked with ⁓ when I was in law enforcement, that you feel like and and just being a parent, you feel like, man, I don't know what the hell I'm doing. I don't know why I'm doing this. All of sudden someone comes up to you and says, Hey, you made a difference. You're doing something. It helps set that reset button like, Okay, things are working out, things are going the right way. speaker-1: Yeah, and and it's it's all part of that trust feel process. ⁓ where I continually as each time they go through an iteration of going around the circle of where ⁓ where they start out with ⁓ I w monitor the reaction, we're rewiring their brain, we refine their skills, ⁓ speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: ⁓ then they're you've built resilience, okay, by all of those the process. So you're building up immunity to fear, okay, and that's how you get them to be relentless. And that's for me, ultimately the goal is to Play harder than the other team thinks they're capable of. I can't tell you how many kids or plate teams that I've coached that ⁓ just ⁓ in the fourth quarter, while the other team is not mentally tough, we are mentally tough. And I tell them this is where we separate from them. This is where we put ⁓ the pressure on them, and they are so mental. Mentally worn down, they're physically worn down, and that wears down the brain. And that's where we're going to have that separation from the other players, is that they're not as mentally tough as you guys. When let's crush them respectfully, but let's crush them right here. speaker-0: No, that's such a such a valuable point. Mike, you've got a lot of projects coming out and I'm excited to have you back on the show to talk about those other ones. And I think this is just a a great point. Tell us about your book now, ⁓ that that's coming out this month, and let's let's pump that up. speaker-1: I I have too. The one that we're mainly talking about here today is coaching the fear out of kids. And and it really just kind of you know, ⁓ I've had and I'm not saying me being successful as a as a coach, but I've had a lot of success with players and a process that I go through that I speaker-0: If you're out of kids. speaker-1: I just ⁓ people would ask me all the time, how did you flip that kid? How did you do this? And and what would happen was that I I kept on I would fix a kid in the middle of the season. This is when I got out of coaching and I started doing individual coaching. And I would flip a kid and got them from where they were gun shy, that they weren't afraid to go out and shoot. And so I went I was able to then get them back into their teams and the you know it would be it would last for three or four games and then all they would regress. And what I was coaching was the kids, and I was coaching the kids' minds, but I wasn't coaching the coaches. Okay. They were going right back into the environment, into the culture, and into the coach's philosophies and and with this book, what it's designed to do is to actually go all the way back to the beginning and try to give this to the coaches to give the tools so that they're they understand what they're doing so that instead of r you know creating that cycle that I was in of where you coach him and then you know, let him play a games for a couple of and he has a couple of strong games. I want to get kind of all the way back to the beginning and and so that we can build a new process and a new philosophy of rather than, you know, trying to drive that square peg into the round hole, that the hole aligns with with whatever peg you have, your philosophy of coaching. is is in line with your coaching knowledge. I'm not there are no X's and O's in in this book. This is just just looking at the Jimmies and the Joes. speaker-0: Well, I that's a very important p part of it that you get to that I'm I'm glad you're getting to it 'cause I think it it matters. That before we get down to the Xs and O's, we have to get to the individual and ⁓ build that relationship to the X's and O's. So the book is called Coaching the Fear Out of Kids and I know for me that I as I take on coaching and and being with my team this next season. I'm learning a lot. I'm gonna look for this book because it's something I know will help me be a better coach and helping these kids, they're adults, but helping them understand their value to the team. And because one I've always believed one of the most important things in a p to get out of a player is to help them see their value or to help them get a buy into the team. But you you shared with me something that I I don't know if I looked at it the same way. I think on a different scale, but before I can get them to buy into the team, I need to ⁓ let them know that I have a buy in on them and that's so important. ⁓ what's the other book you have coming out? The other one is speaker-1: thirty days to becoming the the the you God intended and that was my two hundred seventy one pounds moment and there there's another thing the on the people that I ha I have mentored that I've always had a again a process for that and ⁓ it's a thirty day guide. ⁓ it's scripturally based, it's neurologically based, and it's ⁓ it has ⁓ a ton of ⁓ just opportunities for and my wife and I right now we're writing the follow-up to it, ⁓ thirty days to becoming the couple God intended. And it's really kind of taking that process and and making it so that it's it's in a digestible chunk every day is important. And where ⁓ you write your why, and that's the purpose for me. ⁓ but then in the couples book it's w your your combined why and then you have one start, one stop, one sacrifice, and it's something that you stop doing, ⁓ some behavior that you want to change as something that you want to start doing, and then something that is really giving it meaning to to everything, and that's the sacrifice. And for me that was Starbucks. And And I was I would go there and I get a venti mocha frappuccino with no whipped cream, one pump of mocha, and an extra shot of espresso blended in. Okay. And it's as a as expensive as it is complicated. And and so here I was, no whipped cream because I don't want that fat in me. Okay. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, yeah. speaker-1: And and and then I would order the ⁓ the chocolate pistachio loaf. Okay. So the the man that was in the mirror that I wouldn't I could mu not make eye contact with the person in the mirror. And I had gotten so far off purpose. It wasn't the mirror was just purely a reflection of how adrift I had gone from my purpose. And and that's what ⁓ you for me, the purpose of what God intended me to be. And and that is what I promised Nick and Russ that when I had the chance to help people that I would. And so that's what this book is. Is ⁓ is is forty years of of helping people. and f finally documenting the process. A and and a lot of it has has been instinctive ⁓ along the way 'cause there's gonna be a lot of that. But there's there's a lot of stuff that is neurological that ⁓ or ev is stuff that is aligned with scriptures and how the scriptures align with the neuroscience that is just now going, hmm, yeah, they were kind of right back two thousand years ago. So that's ⁓ that's kind of where ⁓ the book kind of helps you align with your purpose. And the the the thing that that that I I say in there, you're you're it has to be actionable. ⁓ it means can you you know can you start on it today? is it ⁓ you know so you want to to make sure that your speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: the things that you want to stop and you want to start and that you want to sacrifice is something that is attainable. Okay. It's actionable, it's attainable. And there has to be an accountability part to this. Okay. And you're accountable to yourself. So in the book, there's a journaling part. Okay. So, you know, what what does all of this stuff mean here? And you you say this is the the every day you go through a different level of emotion and you're you're going like this through the entire process and it those are exactly the spots that you're supposed to be. You're supposed to feel this way. So every day I have a theme of what I have experienced going through this process of get going from two hundred and seventy one pounds to where today I'm two seventeen and I'm keep I'm gonna keep going. but It's it's it has to be actionable, it has to be attainable, and you have to be accountable, okay? And in this ⁓ there's a lot of self-accountability, but it's in journaling, okay? And when you get to the end of the day and you did like, ⁓ man, I went to Starbucks and that was one of the things that I was supposed to sacrifice, and you end up feeling like crap, okay? And so you're on the dip part of things, okay, but it's all Like if you look closely at the stock market, you're gonna see it going like this. This gives you the ability to step back from the stock market and not see it go like this, but actually see it going like this, where it's trending up. speaker-0: I think that's the thing that a lot of people miss when it comes to any lifestyle change is ⁓ crap, you know, I went to Starbucks or you know, I went to the ⁓ all you can eat Chinese buffet or you know, wherever. And we beat ourselves up about those slight missteps or I didn't wake up and work out this morning and and that sends us mentally spiraling like, ⁓ I'm falling so far behind. But I like the point you make in comparing it to the stock market that like you're gonna be on that continual trajectory and there's gonna be ups and downs, highs and lows. And I think that's an important life lesson too, that like we go through valleys and we go through peaks and valleys and you know, troughs and stuff like that, or we plateau. But that doesn't mean we're not moving up. We're not moving up as fast as we want, but I think you're your book, ⁓ you know, for for those that are of a spiritual nature and stuff like that, it should ring true to them that like, hey, God, the creator, the universe, whatever it is, has a plan for you. And here are thirty here's thirty steps in the next thirty days to help you realize your purpose, your your your mission. Yours is to be ⁓ coaching and and helping grow people grow that way. I find my mission, my purpose is one doing this. ⁓ helping people see the value of mentorship, but also helping people to see that like the value of human connection is really when you you get down to it. So I appreciate you being here with us today. thirty days to be the to becoming the you God intended and coaching the fear out of kids. That's the one I'm most excited about right now. I'm excited for both of ⁓ We'll put links to them. ⁓ where you can find them and ⁓ please make sure you get yourself a copy and thank you so much for watching the mentor sessions. Please remember to like, comment, subscribe, and tell us about a mentor in your life or someone who helped coach the fear out of you. I'd love to hear those comments down in the in the comment section. Thank you so much for watching today.