Latest / New Worlder / Episode #95: María Álvarez

Transcript

Episode #95: María Álvarez · New Worlder

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is the New Worlder podcast and I am one of your hosts, Nicholas Gill.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Co-host Juliana Duque will be joining shortly.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Today we are speaking with Maria Alvarez.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Maria is the co-founder,
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: along with Isaac Martinez,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: of the publisher Novo,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: the very first publishing house dedicated to gastronomy in Mexico.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Maria and Isaac started Novo in 2023 because they saw a lack in the
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: types of books being published about Mexican cuisine both in Mexico and abroad.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: They wanted to be a publisher that is more collaborative with other disciplines, more like a milpa.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Rather than just a monoculture of corn,
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: they wanted a multi-cropped garden of designers,
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: photographers,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: and other professionals to help support the vision of the author.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: In this interview,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: she explains how she moved from the world of art publishing into culinary
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: publishing and is helping shape a community around these niche books about food in
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Mexico
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: as well as through their podcast series, Radio Milpa.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Novo now has two published books.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: The first is Cocina de Oaxaca by Alejandro Ruiz, published last year.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Ruiz is the chef of Casa Oaxaca,
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: who is one of the godfathers of modern Oaxacan cooking and has helped teach a
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: generation of cooks at his restaurant,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Casa Oaxaca.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: They also just released Estado de Anglos,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: a book about mushrooms in central Mexico by the Mexican-Japanese forager Nane Watabe.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: She supplies mushrooms to lots of the best restaurants in the DF and is at the
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: intersections of all things mushrooms in Mexico,
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: and the book reflects that.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: This October,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: they will be publishing La Republica Democrática del Cerdo by Pedro Reyes,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: who you might know from the Taco Chronicles on Netflix.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: You can order the books online or find them in bookstores in Mexico,
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: as well as buy some of them from the very incredible culinary bookstores like
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Kitchen Arts and Letters in New York and Now Serving in Los Angeles.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: This world of publishing culinary books in Latin America is really beginning to
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: open up and I could not be happier.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think a healthy publishing environment is one where
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of different voices and aesthetics are being developed,
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: and not just that of a few large international publishers.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: In the interview, we discuss how important the very language being used in a culinary book can be.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: It can have a profound effect on the preservation of certain ingredients, for one.
• 2:36
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• 2:38
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• 2:43
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• 2:49
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• 2:53
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• 2:56
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• 3:01
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• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the show.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Maria.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Maria.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Juliana.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm great.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for inviting me.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you at right now?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are you in Mexico City or Oaxaca or where?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Mexico City.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're based there, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just making sure.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you founded Novo, the first Mexican publishing house focused on gastronomy.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe just to start, you can tell us a little bit about what Novo is.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's a big statement saying it's the first,
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: but it's not the first effort,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: but it's truly the first publishing house dedicated solely to gastronomy,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: cookbooks,
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: and...
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: everything about Mexican food or food based in Mexico.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: So Isaac Martinez and I founded last year because we just thought we needed some
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: books we weren't seeing out there.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And all the efforts were made by either foreign publishing houses working with
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: chefs and cooks and contents here in Mexico.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: but not by Mexicans.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we decided to start this adventure last year.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we've published three books so far and working on a lot of projects.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you feel was lacking in the books about Mexican food that were kind of already out?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess there have always been books about food published in Mexico, but what...
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: but what were they more just kind of like general cooking things more,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: pretty woman with an apron,
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: like that kind of thing,
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: home cooking books targeted at a certain audience.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, definitely.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: We, we had a lot of, uh, cookbooks like the, um, uh, grandmother's cookbooks.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: We have a massive tradition of, uh, this, this type of books.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they're an amazing heritage, but it's not like the contemporary cookbook we wanted to see.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we were lacking a vision, like a design, photography perspective.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think we had an amazing tradition of,
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: we have an amazing tradition of cooking and we have amazing chefs,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: amazing cooks.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing ingredients, amazing, like the whole culture surrounding Mexican cooking.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And also we have the hype.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've been, like this city, Mexico City, Oaxaca, Baja California.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there's so many places people come to eat and to discover ingredients and places and people.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we thought we needed to...
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: like a more cultural approach, if you can say so?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely think there's a lack of these sorts of books,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: not just in Mexico,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: but throughout Latin America.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: there's not this like,
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: and it's very hard to do,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: to do what you're doing,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: because there's not like this Latin America-wide distribution model of
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: it's not like the US where,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: the books go all over North America or whatever,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: and there's agreements,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: there's not like issues with sending things state to state.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like every country has its own legal issues and there needs to be distribution
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: agreements in every country.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: So markets are quite small, I would assume.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: And
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: for a book to be successful,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: it is very dependent on,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: the platform of the author and also the publisher's platform and kind of the
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: community that,
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: the publisher can create and like creating those communities.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't just like the general food community or a restaurant community,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: or it's,
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: it's very specific about people that read culinary books.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think, I mean, it's, it's a very specific audience in some ways.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then what you're doing and what publishers like Hombre de Cultura in Colombia
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: are doing,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's extremely important.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: It allows different types of books to be written that aren't just the grandmother
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: or the tattooed chef on the cover or something like that.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we face massive challenges with the market and distribution.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: But we thought we need to form those publics.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: We need to create this market because the numbers of the runs are totally different
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: in Mexico than in the US.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: But we needed to start somewhere.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't do this,
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: it's also...
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: We need to widen these audiences and the public for these types of books.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there's a hunger for them.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So in that sense, I think we... I mean, it's still a challenge.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: The distribution is complicated because it needs to be done like...
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: every step of the process.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it can kind of distract you from your editing process for the publishing itself.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it needs to be done in order to get to all these people out there that wants this type of books.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maria, I was thinking when looking at the covers and the conceptual line you have for the novel,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: There is something about this niche, because they're still niche projects, right?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they have an aesthetics,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: as you say,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: they have a more cultural approach to these contents,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: to gastronomy.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: They entail this beautiful harmony between photography,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: concepts,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: art,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: different,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: like almost like the seven or eight arts
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: in a book, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: On the other hand, you say there is a need for these books.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: There is an audience wanting them, craving them.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: But they are very niche.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you say we have the other books and same is all around South America, Latin America.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Who is accessing all those other books?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And who is able to access these ones?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's always this paradox or challenge of getting to a broader audience and yet the
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: language is more specialized.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes sense in the,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of making a lot of information more appealing to certain people,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: is not going to maybe be appealing for some other groups.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: this is just a question that I have in general about these amazing publishing
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: houses that are so well curated and beautiful and just great,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have the answer for that and I'm just like posing the question here for
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: everyone because it seems to me that,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: it's a hard one.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hard one.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have the answer either,
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: but I think we try to tap into this,
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: maybe aesthetics.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can learn some of the public with design and with photography.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: The themes are going to be super obvious for some of the people,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: like the foodies and even the industry people.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: I guess we're trying to make this...
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: congruency between the subject and the design and the pictures and try to make it
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: work for wider audiences than just like foodies and restaurant industries.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: and I think we kind of have grabbed some attention with photographers and designers
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: and architects and other more
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: maybe art consumers, if you could say so.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, we try very hard to make the recipe parts of our books.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the main thing, but it's part of it.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we try to make the recipes as doable in a home kitchen as possible.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we really translate...
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: translate for the general audience.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you can fill,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: you can cook whatever is in the books without like being a special equipment or
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: having a special kitchen or a restaurant kitchen or anything else like that.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: On the website, you have like a manifesto and you say, let's plant a milpa.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean by that?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it's very important for us the milpa as a metaphor for whoever doesn't
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: know what a milpa is.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a corn plantation, but it's like the ancient version
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: of that that implies that it's not only corn, but other plants like beans and squash.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like an intercropped plot of a garden.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what it means for us,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: the milpa,
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: it's just as the corn and the squash and the beans and the other like herbs and
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: They can grow maybe green tomatillos and whatever can grow with the corn.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's benefiting from this type of growing process.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: We have that as a metaphor for making a book.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: The type of books we are publishing and the content we are creating can't be done
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: by a single author or by a
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're authors, but they're photographers and designers and chefs and cooks.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of people implied in the creation of a book of this sort, not like anthropologists.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so we say Sembremos una Milpa in the sense that we want to collaborate.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And also,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Quite literally,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: we are losing the Milpa system in Mexico and we are launching a campaign to like a
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: percentage of our sales will go to Milpa farmers,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: like literally.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: We are super worried about the loss of the ancestral crops and also because the
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: process itself,
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: it's really like a communal process in many villages in Mexico.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And even in Mexico City, we have still like a resistance movement to preserve the milpa.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: You also talk a lot about how emotion in cooking is necessary for art.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: We were very inspired.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Novo,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: even the name,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's a last name of a man called Salvador Novo that was an artist,
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: a writer,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: a poet,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: and he wrote the first
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: culinary history of Mexico City.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And being this guy that was in politics, in art, in theater, we thought it was a statement as well.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: His name was the label, because that's why we want to.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to be isolated.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Food and cuisine doesn't need to be separated from the rest of the culture and the
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: rest of the arts and the rest of the expressions of a city or of a country or a place.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's also what is implied with the emotional side of it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: We want to recover.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we like food, don't we?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because it has all these emotions and community and being together and sharing.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Connection.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that kind of emotional connection to food is important.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it does get lost a lot of the time in traditional publishing when it
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: seems very transactional sometimes.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, cookbooks that...
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: they're so the original vision of the author or the cook or the designer,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: whatever,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes it gets so manipulated into the,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: just this box that they all kind of end up seeming the same.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: And in food is very different,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: like it's,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: it's such a like wondrous thing that's always changing and never the same.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, every ingredient you get is, is always different.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: It comes from different air and soil and,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: All of that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So publishing, I think, should reflect that in some way, whatever way that it can.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: It shouldn't all just be what you can buy in the supermarket and everything tastes
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: exactly the same and the same packaging.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, always different and changing and evolving.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Out of curiosity, what was your experience in publishing prior to Novo?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it, it was basically in art books.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of transitioned from like,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to put my vision on art books in the,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: in the cookbooks and the,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: in the,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: in the novel books,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: because,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's,
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: it's basically very similar,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: like.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And also in my practice as an art publishing and as an editor before,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just realized also it's not about the artists alone.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: or or the practice alone it's just about how how the book needs to be the
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: connection between uh these people that is that are interested in the same in the
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: same subjects and that are in search of emotions and in search of uh also it's uh i
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: think the the book format is a it's a it's a way of
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: put more value in these processes and in these people.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not fixed.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: As you say, it's not fixed.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: You will never have the same bite,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: the same recipe or the same...
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: we just published a book on mushrooms and it's like,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: we are not going to have mushrooms in two months time.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be like the season is short and it's never the same.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think we want to capture this, but not to fix it in a box.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just like an inspiration and a valuation of these people that are dedicated to farming,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: to harvesting,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: to cooking,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: and also to reading,
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: basically.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I never thought about a publishing house in that way, as Nick just said.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's great.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a mirror of something that it's alive, which is society and, you know, like life outside.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the publishing house should reflect that, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of being so rigid and in a way structured.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry to jump in here.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like it should be like a milpa.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like it should be all these things that, like the corn at a milpa, it's not like these perfect rows of,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: of corn and all these other groups,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes they're,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: they're misshapen and they look different from one another from stock to stock.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's not this like factory of everything the same.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it made me think, because I was wondering how,
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: So how have you decided so far about the books or the projects you have prioritized?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it has to do with that, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like in a way it should be not random,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: but not like a collection that now,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: so I was curious about that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And also what has been the most challenging thing so far in publishing those?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's, it's, it has a certain, um,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: randomness but not i mean there's a certain you can you you need to like uh it's
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: still a business yeah yeah and also we we want to to to be i mean we want to create
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: like a like a legacy and like a like a reference it's a message yeah there is a
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: message yes there is a message definitely and uh and uh the thing is yeah it's
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also like with crops and like if the rain is too much or it's too little
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: or like the sun,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: you have to take the,
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: like the context creates maybe more than half of it.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but yes, we still have, we still have some parameters and we still have some things we decide on.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we always want to
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: to reflect the territory, the people.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's more important for us.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: For example, in our mushroom book, yes, there are recipes.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: There are 15 recipes.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: They are like the last bit of the book.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the more protagonistic is the landscape and the woods and the people that
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: harvest and the people that have the knowledge
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: with harvesting mushrooms in Mexico for generations and generations.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's the same for the rest of the world.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: there are woods in many,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: many countries and most of the countries,
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: but the traditions of harvesting and cooking are very specific to,
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: even like Oaxaca and Mexico City are like,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: They named the mushrooms differently, even like scientific names can coincide.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: But for them, it's like a different, they cook it differently.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different reality.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have a different product at the end of the, when it comes to the plate.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, we have a method and we have some like principles, but we, it's like,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: just keeping in mind that what is important to us more than,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: more than selecting or,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: and that's,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: that's,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: also working very closely to the vision of the,
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: of the authors,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: like even for aesthetical purposes and like,
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's great.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because authors don't always get much say in, like, design and kind of aesthetics and things like that.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So this book that you were talking about, it's called Estado de Anglos, and that's by Nané Watabe.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And she's Mexican.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Japanese.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And she's a Mexican Japanese forager.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that her primary occupation?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: She's a forager?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: She's a forager.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, like, I don't know how to say it like a seller.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: She sells mushrooms to the to the restaurants.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: She connects the foragers with the chefs.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she takes people to the woods to forage, to teach them.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: She also searches for knowledge with foragers in the communities.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: so she's basically a hub of information about mushrooms in Mexico,
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: but also is like a focal point in the distribution and how they're used in
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: restaurants and things.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so she's a perfect person.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: to write a book about this.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she wasn't a writer, but she did have all this knowledge and all these contacts.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's also important to say that this is the type of authorship we are looking for.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: this person that knows part of the industry, the people in like all these sides of the cooking, no?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, it sounds like she's exactly in the middle of all aspects of mushrooms in Mexico.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the book is,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: is it all,
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: does it cover all of Mexico or is it just mostly concentrated in central Mexico alone?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's concentrated in three states because also in the Estado de Mexico,
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: because it's where Nanae has the most,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: like she's been doing,
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: she's been going for almost 12 years to the woods,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: like surrounding Mexico City.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: She's based in Mexico City, but she,
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: so and uh and then oaxaca because she she and and and also us we have a lot of
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: connections there uh and um and the chefs there are like work super like i think
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: maybe oaxaca is one of the of the um cuisines that uses the mushrooms like
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like they really they really you can go to restaurants and see menus that they have
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: it for the entire season.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of chefs are more cautious about it because of the obvious reasons
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: that it's if you don't know the mushrooms,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: it's sometimes people don't risk it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And also Puebla, because it's also close and it's between the two states.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: But definitely no.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: it's...
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: there are maybe six or seven more states where...
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can find mushrooms in many,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: many of the central areas in Mexico.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it was like...
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is like the vision of Nanae more than like...
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: than a guide to mushrooms or something like that.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's her.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's about her and how she understands the world of mushrooms in this part of Mexico.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: This part of Mexico, yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think we could probably find other very interesting,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably in the future we'll have to do more on this amazing subject,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: covering other states or other areas and other people,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: because there's also many indigenous people that knows a lot about this.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, this is Nana's vision mostly.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: The first book was Cocina de Oaxaca by Alejandro Ruiz, who's, you know, the chef of Casa Oaxaca.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's a well-known chef with a, you know, kind of longtime popular restaurant.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure like he's been offered book deals before.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is this his first book?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is his first book and his only book so far.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: and this is,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: also this is a book that was,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I published this book before with my art,
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: imprint and,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: this,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: this kind of,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: made me go into like the,
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: the,
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I started my career as a,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: as a,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: as an editor for,
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: for food magazine.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I then went into art books.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I found Alejandro, it kind of mixed the whole thing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's, it's, it's, I published it under the Sicomor Ediciones label before.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, it's kind of one of the starters of Novo because I, I,
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't run a new edition, and I wanted to.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually sold the rights for American publishing.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: The book exists in the USA.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: They changed the cover, but it's basically the same book.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it was in the middle of the pandemic, and it was kind of complicated.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about it.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely one.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it was successful in many ways.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and I was like a lot of people was asking, like, where is that book?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it's like I ran out of copies.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we decided to like the first step for Novo was to relaunch this book with our
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: brand because it kind of has all the it ticks all the boxes we
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we relaunched it, and it's going very well.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the American version is under the NOF label.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's doing well.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I think it would be easier if the chef was able to travel,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: but I think he's super focused in his restaurants and...
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I guess people are coming to him all the time.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: He has a lot of places in Oaxaca now, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: yeah so like four places in Oaxaca uh but he's super busy and he is it's he's
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: always saying like um I love having the book but I'm I'm I love more being in my
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: kitchens like so yes I guess I guess he's and and also I think uh we're very proud
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: to because I think he he's a
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's an inspiration for so many of the chefs that came,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: like even for the Mexico City,
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: more famous than Alex chefs.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's the boss.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everyone respects him there.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you know Jorge.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Jorge used to work there, right?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's where Jorge got his start.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Jorge comes from... Yeah, a lot of...
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: of the people comes from Alex's kitchens and Jorge Leon and also Rodolfo Castellanos and Manolo Piton.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of chefs that have worked with Alejandro and then have come to Pujol
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: and then they founded their own restaurants.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a massive inspiration.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to Jorge the other day when you mentioned that you know him,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Jorge Leon from the restaurant Alfonsina in Oaxaca,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: who I've written about a lot over the years.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: But he has a recipe in the mushroom book, is that right?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, he has a mole recipe that is amazing.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a broccoli mole.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: Broccoli mole, okay, yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's all like mushrooms and vegetables.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's an amazing recipe.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And also he was,
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: not only he participated with the recipe,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: but with putting us in contact with the lady that he buys mushrooms from,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: like the forager.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like she has a whole chapter in the recipe.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maestra Anastasia, she took us to the forest in Oaxaca and she was a guide for us, for Nanae and for me.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was great.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: You have one coming about pork, right?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, La Manita Democrática del Cerdo.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: The Democratic Republic of Pork.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: From Pedro Reyes, who I know.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I know Pedro.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I've met Pedro before.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he's on Taco Chronicles, the Netflix show.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he's been involved in, like, everything in Mexican astronomy over the years.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: So what is this book?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's coming in November.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to present it in the Feria Internacional del Libro de Guadalajara,
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: which is a very important event.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the most important book fair in Spanish language there is.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very different book from the mushroom book.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's funky.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the design reflects all of this amazing relationship,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: the Mexican that we have with pork from carnitas,
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: cochinita pibil,
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: tacos al pastor and all this chicharrón and like everything.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it also covers like the same, like we talk about the territory, we talk about the people that cooks
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like a very popular kind of recipes, but we also have 20 recipes in this case.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also Pedro's friends that wanted to give and Pedro's,
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: grandmother and all these different recipes that are like close to Pedro's life and experience.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: And when does that come out?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: November.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: November this year.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: November this year.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question about the radio project and how those two things connect because
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think you have just one episode so far,
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I listen to it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Radio Milpa.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And well, thank you.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: first,
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: thank you because it's so refreshing and I don't know,
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: just,
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: it's so well produced and it has this balance between getting to,
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: getting you into the story in a very focused way,
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: but it's also so,
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: the music on the back is,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: it's a perfect volume and then you can,
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really got into it immediately.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was wondering how these two things are going to enrich each other and collaborate,
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: because I am guessing the idea is not to replicate the same,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: just with the books and the radio,
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: and you have the potential to reach different audiences.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm curious about that combination of amazing things you're doing.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was kind of...
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: We were,
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: whenever we're in the process of doing the books,
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: we find so many people and so many things that are interesting and so many stories
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: to be told like out there,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: but then you have to focus on your book or your plan.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we thought in generally or with a lot of naive
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: thinking that we were going to be able to do like,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: we can have this small kind of on the side audio podcast.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's not like that, as you probably know way better than me.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't want to lose these other stories and other people and other processes.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we made a list of like,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: it's kind of not,
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: it's not,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: it's not about,
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: it's people we have encountered during the processes of the books,
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: but not exactly like it's other stories we want to tell.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe that we don't think like, this is not a book.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is like smaller.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how we started.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we started without any experience in the, in the,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: like audio producing.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was a leap of faith that we thought we needed to... I mean, we always conceived Novo as a platform.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't want to say Novo Books or Novo Ediciones or Novo...
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted it to be like a platform and we wanted to have this sense of community.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have like four more in line, the four other episodes, and we're working on them.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you for the comments.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate them because it's been a lot of fun, but it's also like...
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: without any experience in this field, it was, wow, how are we going to do this?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yes,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: we have the idea of bringing more audiences and bringing more public to the same,
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: the same area of interest.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, it's the same with New Worlder.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there's never really been a concrete idea.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's just always been
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: just trying to adapt and change and like try and tell all these stories together
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: and let them feed off each other in some way.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's, it's always a battle.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think with the way just technology changes and the way people get their information keeps changing.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so quickly that it's impossible to keep up, but I don't know.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me,
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: it's just been like,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: just,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: just putting it out there when it feels right and just kind of see what happens,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: which,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: probably isn't always the best business model, but I don't know.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, it feels the most natural to me.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a, it's a balance, but, but, uh, we hope this kind of, uh, it's, it's, it can be super quick.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it can be,
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: it's not,
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: it's this,
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: this,
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think this story is particularly this,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: this is about Gustavo,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Gustavo McQuill,
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: a very young chef from the,
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: that is an expert corn grower and he comes from the Milpa itself.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it doesn't really matter if you tell this story today or in a year's time.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good story.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think if it's a good story, it will... Such a good story.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: the good thing,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: about thinking novel as a platform or new order is that you really,
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: it's not the answer to my first question because it's a constant challenge,
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: but I think it allows to cover different audiences and radio can be so democratic.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: uh you know it's mainly or to some extent for free and and there are like some
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: other maybe i don't know interest you'll need to have maybe to enjoy the niche
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: books that you don't need for that it's such a good story and so compelling in so
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: many ways for different kinds of people
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: not to mention, you know, producers or farmers, the way he talks, his story.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was just wondering,
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you have a lot of your plates,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: so maybe you haven't solved this,
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: but distribution-wise,
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: how to make it more available for,
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: because we find it because we know about novel and because,
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: one thing leads to the other.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: But if someone wants to get directly to that story without having to worry about novel in other ways.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we're kind of in the middle of that question.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do we get out there?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get the public we create this for?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I don't have the proper answer for this.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was hoping you did.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: In the top of my head,
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: we are...
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think we want to be out there and also we want to...
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: One thing we have always said is we want to cross the borders because there's such
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: a big audience and such a big market.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Even in Spanish, we...
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: We think there's an opportunity for us to be heard and to be read and to be bought our books in the US.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of Mexican,
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of Latin American people that also are now willing to listen to
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: things in Spanish and read in Spanish.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: all these things.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I think we're, we're on the, on the, definitely we have that in like every discussion.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing I want to talk about is just the publishing in Spanish is, is such a weird thing sometimes.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: Just from my experience with writing books in English that were translated into Spanish,
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: even though they were about Latin America,
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: that's a whole other story.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: But usually what gets sold in Spanish at an international level is in...
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: the language of Spain.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's in,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: like for some reason,
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_02: which the global publishing world considers standard Spanish,
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: the Spanish from Spain.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've had fights with publishers about this,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: relating to,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: the books I've worked on set in Latin America and the translations say things like
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: alubias to describe beans or patatas to describe potatoes.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: And to be fair,
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: it can be difficult to apply a single dialect of Spanish across Latin America
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: because there are so many different variations of words being used.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: But when you standardize a language of so many places,
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: as it relates to food,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: you lose so much of the regionality of food.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: And when you kind of lessen a description of an ingredient for...
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: like a more general term and those terms start to be used in literature,
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: people start to gravitate towards the more general ingredient.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: they stop seeking out a pasilla mixe chile and instead they just start to use a
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: pasilla chile and those things disappear.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so having independent culinary publishers within Latin America,
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: like I think it's so important just in terms of language.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: I like having that language and spreading that language and the things it means.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like language, it's a reflection of reality and it creates reality.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I think with a mushroom book,
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Estado de Hongos,
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nanae Watabe said to me,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: like the first time we went together to foraging to the forest,
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: I asked like, do you know the scientific name of that?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she said like, no.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I,
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: I probably,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know it,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: but I don't really,
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about it because it's not,
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't reflect anything on the,
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: like these forests and this particular community that lives of this foraging these mushrooms.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean anything.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I think we need to, to repeat and, and say the names, the people that,
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: call it like the people that eats this call it call this mushroom because that's
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: the way we are kind of um preserving yeah yeah like i mean there's so much attached
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: to just just the word just the name
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's a description.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: With mushrooms, it was very telling because to my eyes, it was very similar.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: One mushroom we found in the state of Mexico,
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: and then we went to Oaxaca,
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: and they call it different names.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: They call it different names in two separate villages, separate by maybe 50 kilometers in Oaxaca.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: They call it in Mixteco, or they call it in Spanish, but
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's like this mushroom is called,
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's known in French and maybe in the US,
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite sure,
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: chanterelles,
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: these yellow mushrooms,
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: and they would call them...
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: uh flor de calabaza like squash blossom because it looks like so like um it creates
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: it's it reflects the reality they they live they have a squash blossom and they
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: call it this is a squash squash squash blossom mushroom or whatever i don't know
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: like they have never seen a lobster why would they call it lobster mushroom like
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a great point.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's,
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: in a way,
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: it's a misrepresentation of reality to make it easy for the reader or the audience.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: But,
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: the audience,
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: like treating audiences,
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: dumb or basic,
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: it's a problem because,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: or even just like there is still some work you need to do when you consume this
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: content is you need to research,
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: you need to,
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Be reflective about it.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: You need to, oh, is this the same or not, right?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: If you change the name, like patatas is a perfect example.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not, it is not.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like ontologically it's not, you know, so is this middle ground?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can explain some things and, you know, make it available.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like when we are describing food to someone else that haven't tried from a place,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: we say it's like this other thing or it's a,
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: it's it resembles this other thing,
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: but it's not the same thing.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: And these books and these mainstream publishing houses
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean again for me for the sake of making it easier they fall into this very
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: problematic simplification and misrepresentation of reality because I think it's a
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: great point again to make the analogy this is a reflection of something that is
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: alive outside so it's close to your experience yeah I think and then I think we can
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean not everyone wants easy
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that too.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we can,
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's ways of like turning around those things because,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: for example,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: in Alex's book that we didn't intend to publish,
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: it was for the Mexican market,
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: but we did a glossary because there's a lot of terms that,
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of food that is a reality in Oaxaca,
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: but not,
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: pasilla mije is not even available in Mexico City or it's like...
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: you have to like, you have to look for it.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Look for it.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, I mean, I, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't try until I was like, I don't know, maybe 30.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a, and I, and I'm someone's that it's like very close to food.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: we,
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: we did a glossary,
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: but in the recipes,
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: it's like whatever,
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Alejandro Ruiz was cooking with,
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: we left it like,
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the glossary we suggested,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: if you don't find yerba de conejo,
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: you can use this or that.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not in order to make it, like, to lose these things, but... I think substitutions are fine.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think you should use the best of whatever you have around you,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: like when you're reading a recipe book and...
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: try to make it work with the best whatever you can get.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: But when you just totally erase that information, there's so much more you're losing.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, I think too many publishers fall into that trap.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: They just try to make things easy.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: And too many readers expect that too.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking readers, grow up, man.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: You really have to... It's like you're part of the problem sometimes.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry to people who...
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: know buy books i've written yeah it's true most of the times yeah i think we need
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: to do like um i mean also you have one of these things like you can always look for
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: it like it's not like we're going to make your life super hard for just
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: having the,
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: and also I think it's out of respect of the people that creates that kind of recipe
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: or that lives in this context.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: it's trying to,
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: it's sometimes,
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: that's why I think in our manifesto,
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: we also say like,
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: it's political.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, it's like,
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Languages, it's political and like farming and harvesting all these things.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it's part of food sovereignty, right?
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: It is part of it.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: And cultural sovereignty is there as well.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think if one thing is like,
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: the cultural sovereignty of Mexican food is, is like an asset.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't,
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't mean it in like in a purity kind of way,
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: just like,
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_00: and I do love,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: also from the start,
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: we wanted to like Mexico,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: like think of Mexican food or of whatever happens in Mexico,
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: within Mexico about food.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like,
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: it doesn't have any, any frontiers, like it's all mixed up.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a Nanaewa that is half Japanese and she,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: she knows a lot of,
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: like in her cooking,
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: she's more,
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would say more Japanese,
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: influenced than,
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: than Mexico,
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: but the mushrooms and,
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: but she always says like,
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: yes,
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm cooking with Mexican mushrooms.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm cooking with mushrooms from like 40 kilometers out of, uh, the city.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: and also the,
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of,
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: chefs from all over the place working in Mexico,
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: especially in Mexico City.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think there is like a purity dilemma in Mexican food,
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of,
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: in modern Mexican food a lot of times,
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: in a way that I don't see quite as much elsewhere in Latin America.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like,
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: like Diana Kennedy taker,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: for one,
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: and like,
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: it was very precise,
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: this is the recipe exactly how it's done in this particular place by this woman.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's wonderful.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: But that's just one example of one recipe.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of the times,
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: especially as it's seen from the United States,
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: is that all these recipes are just locked into that state of being all the time.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think that's true at all, ever.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: In any village you go, anywhere in Mexico, things are always changing.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Diana Kennedy, I think...
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: did a massive flavor of love of uh but it's more like uh ethnography yeah yeah no i
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: mean she's awesome like don't get me wrong like i love her work and it's amazing
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: but i just think like sometimes people get locked into those books as like the
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: artifacts that everything should should follow and still be that way or something
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: and it's it's it's some it's hard to to cook that way oh yeah
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: I probably have all of Diana Kennedy's books,
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: but it's like,
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I've cooked from them.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've read them, I've analyzed them, but it's not easy to actually cook
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: get to the kitchen with one of these books and try and figure out.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like, yeah, it's like ethnography.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this precise village with this precise woman made the mole like this.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're amazing records of a moment in time of how something was made.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: Great information.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing information.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I've discovered ingredients or herbs that I didn't even know that existed.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, she did it in the most beautiful way and actually used those ingredients.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: She mentioned what everything was, and that's wonderful.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's exactly what we're talking about.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: And information plus information should be challenging but not intimidating.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because what is the point, right?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the context is important.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm transmitting this information for you to try to live that experience,
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm not expecting you to reproduce it because it's going to be stressful and impossible,
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nearly impossible.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sometimes, yeah, it...
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I would love to see like a Diana Kennedy book for the future.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think things like that are missing.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a big gap of what's available and what could be done in publishing,
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_02: especially in food in Latin America.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad people like you are trying to fill that gap and create
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: something new.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to get to talk to other like,
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Colombians or Peruvians or like that are trying to do the same because we can I mean,
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: we find in our countries like the famous chefs have been like have books published
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: with big labels.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes we need to
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: see what's the perspective from here, from our countries, with our resources.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that in a nationalist way.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: Alejandro's book was designed by a fantastic American designer that lives two
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: blocks away from me.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: She's been living here and she's lived in Oaxaca.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's...
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: they are close, they are here, they have the perspective of an insider, kind of.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's also needed to create publics that...
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've talked to a few chefs that don't relate to the books that have been published
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: with their name in...
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: international, global, and they don't feel that close to their book.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's supposed to be their book.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I really,
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: really mean to work very closely with everyone involved in the,
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: and that's why I'll probably will never be super big because I really enjoy this
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: kind of
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: The collaborative process.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: It makes it,
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: it makes it real,
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: not just something that's been cut away down in the lab in different countries and
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: repackaged and put together.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's beautiful.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's, it's more reflective of food, I think, and how we want it to be.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think they have, um,
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: so far i could see because i i don't have them physically but they have a balance
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: that it's not easy to get which is being reflective or representative of a
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: community but also the voice of an author and a specific person with a specific
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: angle and sense of art and that's that's not easy because
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: especially with artists that are so egocentric.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it's an example that it's possible.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's possible to have a book as a piece of art with the voice of an author that is
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: showing the work of a producing company with this artistic look,
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_01: but it's transmitting a message that talks about a community mainly and most, right?
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's the most important thing.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's the intention.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Jolana, did you have any other questions?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I just want to see the books.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: I look forward to listening to the next radio.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're based in New York, aren't you?
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: Julie's in LA and Columbia.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: We have them now, like as of last week.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have one bookshop in New York.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: One in LA and one in San Francisco.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: Where in New York?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: Kitchen Arts and Letters?
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'll run down there soon.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: Here in Serving LA?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: How great are these bookstores?
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: These culinary bookstores that are popping up everywhere that are giving us access to these things.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: I find this,
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: this,
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's like only three examples,
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: but I think they are the best examples to,
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: to like,
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: like this,
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: this other,
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: other people promoting the,
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: the efforts we are making here because it's really,
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: really an effort.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can concentrate in doing more books and,
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: and they concentrate in doing this amazing job,
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: job of promoting and having them and,
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super happy that we, we, I mean, we're just trying to, to reach, but give us the space.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they also, they, they say like, there's, there's been an increasing interest in, in books in Spanish.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it gives us hope.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: it's just another part of this big community and,
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: interplaying with another community and,
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it makes sense.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's good that it's, you know, not everything's just dictated by Barnes and Noble or whatever.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: Big change.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: Once the heat wave is gone here, which is supposed to be tomorrow or Wednesday, I plan for that.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's an excuse to go there, for sure.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: You have which ones?
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: The two of them?
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: The two of them, Alejandro Ruiz and Estado de Hongos.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've discussed the possibility of now serving an event with Pedro Reyes once the book is out.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working on a book right now with people in LA.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: A Mexican...
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: Cooking a chef?
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: Clayudas Poncho.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know him.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's amazing.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: I tried his Clayudas.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: He's so nice.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's an amazing story there.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're just starting to work, but I think there's like something very interesting.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: Cross borders, Oaxaca, love, all these connections.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: All the hassles.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: Before we go,
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: I have a,
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: I have a weird question,
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: so I was in Maria,
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_02: maybe you can help with this.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's totally unrelated to anything other than, um,
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I was chopping habaneros yesterday and I didn't have gloves.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so my hands have been burning for like 24 hours.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: And like,
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've noticed,
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: but I've been like grabbing my chair sometimes while I've been sitting here.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: But, and I've tried like, I've looked on the internet and like,
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: like just random things.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: And like, I've been told to like soak them in milk and whole milk because the fat will help.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: I've tried baking, like a baking soda mixed with water and putting them on my hands.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_02: Try just like scrubbing my hands again.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's lessened a little bit, but it's like, it's still like not really going away.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a secret to this?
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, I know, I realize I should use gloves.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: I am
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: a food writer and I do realize I'm not a total idiot,
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: but I did just try to avoid it yesterday and I'm in this situation now.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any secrets to this?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: The baking soda works, but it needs to be like immediate.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: But it's too late for the baking soda.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I find myself in the same situation at some point.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the baking soda is just like right away.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I think my mom said mustard.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of recall.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, mustard.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go try that.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: sensation and uh yeah i i never i don't even have gloves but i i normally use like
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_02: a like um a ziploc or something okay yeah that makes sense like i like i just
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: harvested a ton of havanos from my garden and it was like and i was like rushing
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: yesterday i was like okay i'm just gonna make hot sauce and i'm gonna chop them up
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_02: quick and i didn't have gloves i didn't even they maybe have even been gloves i
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: just didn't want to look for them but yeah i was really sloppy about it and
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_02: And now, yeah, I'm going to like live.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: my fingers aren't going to fall off or anything,
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: but it's like,
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_02: it's kind of annoying that 24 hours later.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: And also, and otherwise, if it's, if it doesn't get better, I think Calendula.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's some of that in my, in my yard, I think.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a burning, like you've burned.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's, I think it's similar.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like you would think,
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's some plants used to relieve,
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_02: because I'm sure I'm not,
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: indigenous communities and historically probably didn't wear rubber gloves to cut chilies.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they probably encountered this before.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And there's probably some plant that we've forgotten about that totally cures.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thinking about it as a burning, as a burn, why don't you try honey?
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that didn't come up when I was, I tried aloe vera.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe that helped a little bit.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: But honey.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Honey, okay.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Honey, in Mexico, I got such a stupid burn.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And honey, I mean, yeah, I didn't have to go.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I should have gone to ER because it was really bad.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think honey cured me.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: So try that.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So Maria, maybe you come soon to L.A. ?
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to LA on the 18th of September.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's talk.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Maria.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for the space and the conversation.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, everyone, for listening.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Maria Alvarez from the publisher Novo in Mexico.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Check them out online and on Instagram.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: They are at Novo.mx.com.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, sorry, NovoMX.com.
• 1:11:49
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• 1:11:53
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• 1:11:58
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• 1:11:59
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• 1:12:02
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• 1:12:05
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• 1:12:10
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• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_02: And a big thank you to my friend Pat Buzzard, as always, for providing the music to the show.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everyone.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_02: See you.