Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Jeff Booth | How Bitcoin Fixes the World | Simply Bitcoin IRL

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Jeff Booth | How Bitcoin Fixes the World | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:00
Hello everybody, Welcome to another episode of Simply
0:03
Bitcoin IRL. Today we have a very special
0:06
guest that I've been looking forward to have this
0:08
conversation with and of course I'm talking about Jeff Booth.
0:10
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0:36
All right, no more delay. I want to Jeff on stage.
0:38
Jeff, great to see you again. Last time we crossed paths was
0:42
at the Bitcoin Atlantis conference and I got to say that
0:45
was an incredible conference. I was pleasantly surprised.
0:48
The venue, the island, the atmosphere, the energy.
0:51
It was really special. Yeah, it wasn't that great to
0:53
see you again too, Nico, but it wasn't that wild.
0:56
It was just, it was awesome. Yeah, it was.
1:00
It was. It was really special to say the
1:02
least. However, my first question is
1:04
framed on a conversation that we had in Miami and it was Bitcoin
1:08
2023 and it fascinated me. I could tell that you were going
1:12
down the kind of AI rabbit hole and there was this theme that
1:17
you really stuck with me. I even remember it like a year
1:20
and a half later or so, which is this idea of and you know and
1:24
you hear Elon talk about this all the time that AI poses this
1:27
threat to humanity. So my question to you is, what
1:31
is the difference between AI under a Bitcoin standard versus
1:34
AI under a Fiat standard? This is the most simple thing to
1:38
understand. I think all of the productivity
1:41
from AI flows to us under the Bitcoin standard.
1:45
All of the productivity from AI gets captured and used against
1:48
you under a Fiat standard. It is as simple as that.
1:52
It's. I mean it's it's simple.
1:54
But could you could you? It's a simple.
1:56
It's simple. For you, Jeff.
1:58
But could you can you break it down like why that is why why
2:02
the why the massive change and I would even say that this is this
2:06
is kind of is it too far to say this is life or death like if
2:10
you pointed out that way. So so depends what what system
2:15
you're measuring from. And and it's and this was the
2:20
whole context of my book because that's what I saw coming and
2:24
that's why I had to write the book because I saw what society
2:27
would do kind of in the other system.
2:29
So we live in Bitcoin allows us to live in a system that
2:33
measures the free market and all productivity flowing to you and
2:37
why would productivity flow free to you in the free market?
2:40
It's just really easy. We only use things that give us
2:44
more value. So entrepreneurs are competing
2:47
all the time to give us more value.
2:49
And the output of the free market in that world is
2:52
deflation. That is what the world should
2:56
look like now. That means they output, as we
3:01
invent technology to do things better.
3:03
The output of that free market deflation is exponential
3:06
deflation. And from that world, it from
3:11
that world, prices would fall forever relative to the thing
3:15
that could measure that world. And the only thing that can
3:18
measure that is something that without counterparty risks to
3:21
the existing system that's decentralized and secure.
3:24
So that's what Bitcoin is measuring, all prices falling to
3:27
you forever. And if you're measuring from
3:30
Bitcoin, that means your world is getting more abundant as all
3:34
the productivity is flowing to you in the form of lower prices.
3:37
And it will forever. If you're measuring from the
3:39
Fiat world that must mathematically must stop
3:44
deflation because otherwise they the debt system collapses then
3:49
that exponential productivity that should be flowing to you
3:52
will be taken from you and to control you at a higher and
3:57
higher level. And and ironically Elon is part
4:01
of that system because he tries to centralized everything inside
4:05
that that system. So all of these actors within
4:08
the system trying that are dividing your time are actually
4:12
centralizing and controlling you.
4:13
And if you're measuring from that system, you're making that
4:16
system stronger. If you're if you're operating
4:19
from that system, everything you do within that system makes that
4:22
system stronger. It's also why I'm so when we say
4:27
we are all Satoshi and every single person moving and
4:32
building their time, whether you're holding Bitcoin, whether
4:35
you're at stage two understanding, at three
4:37
understanding, 4 understanding. But all of your time in in this
4:41
new decentralized and secure protocol and building on top of
4:45
it is making that shift to a world of abundance faster.
4:51
And what happens for you, You just see it earlier because
4:55
you're in it. That's what's that's what's
4:56
happening. Yeah.
4:58
And and and there was also something too that you said at
5:02
the conference that really stuck with me, which is this idea of,
5:06
you know, however, which way people want to describe it but
5:10
clown world or Fiat world it, you know, whether that's the
5:13
increase in censorship from government, you'd make the case
5:16
that that is necessary in order for that system to function.
5:20
And it, it seems like it's continuing to accelerate, it's
5:23
continuing to be corrupted. And one of the things that you
5:25
said at the conference, and I remember I was sitting in the
5:27
stand or not sitting, but yeah, sitting in the stands.
5:31
That's interesting. I remember that you said
5:34
basically like stop paying attention to it because if you
5:37
give it more attention, it makes it more powerful.
5:41
Could you elaborate on what you meant by that?
5:44
Yeah, I I meant exactly what I just said.
5:46
So no matter what who you vote for Trump or Biden or who, what
5:50
whatever side of this debate that you any of the debates
5:55
within the existing system make it stronger in.
6:01
How do I'm going to show that this another way.
6:05
So when Galileo looked outside the system that that everyone
6:09
else was measuring from, he realized that Copernicus was
6:13
right, that the the the sun, the sun did not travel around the
6:17
earth. It went the other way around.
6:20
As a byproduct of that, you could, you could say that unless
6:25
you could get outside the system, you can't measure the
6:28
system. So you can't measure a system
6:30
problem from this, from the from the system that's creating the
6:34
problem. So all of the people inside that
6:39
who didn't have a telescope couldn't believe him like it was
6:43
300 odd years until the church Catholic Church said he was
6:46
right. And so our minds change really,
6:50
really slowly and and all of the people within Bitcoin right now
6:54
essentially have a telescope. They can see outside the system.
6:58
They can see the truth and as they're building inside that
7:01
onto the new truthful system, the world is transitioning
7:05
faster to that. Now we're very early because
7:07
most people are measuring and and and and they're getting more
7:12
and more mad at A at a system that is designed to divide them
7:17
so it can control them and they're giving it more power
7:21
with everything they're doing. And I wrote that that chapter in
7:28
the book four years ago predicting all of this that was
7:31
US versus them to show why most people would be trapped in that.
7:36
And so they'll carry this forward in every different
7:39
country. When you look at Bitcoin
7:41
repricing the world like it's, it's quantifiable that I can
7:47
show you that. So in in Canada right now, if
7:50
you measured Bitcoin by the pieces of paper that Canada
7:54
produces, then it would say it's 80,000 Bitcoin or 80,000 pieces
7:59
of paper per Bitcoin. But there's a whole lot of
8:01
people that believe in those pieces of paper in Argentina
8:04
too, and it's 55,000,000 per Bitcoin.
8:09
And and if they want to measure their world by the pieces of
8:12
paper they're welcome to. But that world's going to get
8:16
messier and messier, and Bitcoin doesn't care if you want to
8:20
convert it to your piece of paper to measure the world.
8:24
It's repricing everything falling forever because it's
8:27
outside the system. Gotcha.
8:31
Oh, it's fascinating. So Jeff, you said something
8:35
there that caught my eye, which is this idea that we are early.
8:40
Do you believe that with and of course you believe that, but you
8:43
know we're sitting at Bitcoin at 61,000 right now.
8:46
You know, a lot of people still choose to you.
8:49
Know, keep in mind just before you do that, say 61,000 pieces
8:53
of US paper, right, right. It's Bitcoin is repricing the
8:58
world. All houses, all energy prices,
9:01
all everything is being repriced into this.
9:04
And again, if you want to price it in your piece of paper, then,
9:07
and I think that's one of the constructs that most people are
9:10
converting it to their pieces of paper to measure prices.
9:15
OK, so OK, OK, OK. This is fascinating.
9:18
So, so let's say someone wanted to, let's say someone wanted to
9:24
make the IT. It's just OK, So you adopt A
9:27
Bitcoin standard, but you start looking at prices in Bitcoin
9:30
terms. Is that what you're saying?
9:32
That's what I'm saying. And once you start to do that
9:34
you see all prices will fall forever because because the
9:39
thing that the, the, the thing that we never had before is
9:42
something where we could allow the free market to work.
9:46
So we lived in a in something that was telling us that it was
9:49
the free market and a lot of people believe that and and on
9:54
both sides of the Ledger all it, it isn't a free market when
9:58
money is manipulated. So it it just says who gets more
10:02
of the stolen money that comes from the same people that are
10:06
giving that more strength. And and remember most people are
10:10
measuring inflation but first they spend all their time on the
10:15
inflation rate that people are talking about is constantly
10:19
manipulated. So it's not the real inflation
10:21
rate and that is true too. But they they don't even capture
10:26
that. It shouldn't be measured from
10:28
zero. It should be measured by the
10:30
natural productivity of the free market, which I would estimate
10:33
today is about 5% per year. And that mean and next year
10:38
it'll go faster and the year after it'll go faster because
10:40
technology is exponential. That means if you did nothing in
10:44
Bitcoin but hold it, then you're going to get exponentially
10:48
richer over time just by the free market.
10:51
But it's the only thing that can measure it and ironically the
10:55
rise of debt and the rise of rise of manipulated markets and
11:00
then control and and war is is exactly as a result is a
11:05
byproduct of trying to stop deflation because deflation
11:10
makes debt more expensive and you can't repay it so then you
11:13
so but but if you're measuring if you're inside that system of
11:17
debt it's already long past insolvent and would get
11:23
insolvent in a nanosecond if you allowed deflation.
11:27
If you're inside that measuring from your world, it feels like
11:31
everybody's dividing and you're getting it's getting worse and
11:34
you're taking a side and you believe in your side and you're
11:36
giving it more strength. That's it.
11:38
Let's imagine you March down the street you roll over cars and
11:42
you light things on fire. Then you go home to sleep and
11:45
and all the windows are fixed in the morning and your streets are
11:49
clean. Where did the money come from?
11:52
It came from you and and and I don't think people realize how
11:57
much their their, their power. They're just getting all of
12:01
these things within the system. It's sucking their time and
12:05
energy, and their lives are getting worse by trying to play,
12:08
by trying to play Prisoner's dilemma within a system that
12:13
must steal from everybody. You know it.
12:18
It's fast. First of all, it's absolutely
12:21
fascinating in the way that I I still cannot wrap my head around
12:25
this, Jeff, completely and envision A deflationary world.
12:30
Even after I've read your book, even after you've come on my
12:33
podcast multiple times, even after asking these questions.
12:37
Maybe I have such no. And after 1/3 of my life, I've
12:41
been a bitcoiner. Yeah, I've spent, you know, I I
12:44
know more about Bitcoin than I know about the traditional
12:46
financial system. And I still can't imagine, you
12:50
know, to use your, your book's title.
12:51
I can't still, I still can't imagine the price of tomorrow.
12:54
I still can't imagine this future.
12:56
It's very hard for me to wrap my head around it.
12:59
So, so why would that be? We don't have a prior that has
13:03
Bitcoin in it. None of our priors, no book, no
13:07
anything that you've ever read besides the new stuff on on
13:10
Bitcoin has something that looked like Bitcoin.
13:14
And then throughout all the history if you could, if you
13:18
could Co opt money, you would steal that productivity at a
13:23
slow rate at 1st and then a faster rate from every person on
13:27
the planet. So it made sense that you would
13:30
try to steal that productivity within your nation to gain
13:33
control. It would make sense that you try
13:36
to steal that productivity globally to gain control.
13:39
And it makes sense that all throughout world history at with
13:44
the winners writing the history books that if you could Co opt
13:48
money to gain that productivity that should flow to others.
13:52
You would not, you might, you would.
13:54
So history is full of all of that.
13:57
And then how do you get elected in that system because it's
14:02
based on theft. You have to convince your
14:04
population that there you either have to take control of the
14:08
population through dictatorship, or you have to convince your
14:11
population that there's a greater enemy inside the borders
14:15
to gain control. And once you gain control, you
14:18
have to consolidate control. And because it's based on theft,
14:23
it's not a democracy. And then once you do that, you
14:26
have to create a bigger enemy outside your borders to convince
14:30
your people to fight those people to to for freedom.
14:34
And once you reset and once you've won that or or destroyed
14:38
a whole bunch of things all over the world, then you have to if
14:41
you win that war, then you reset your currency under the new
14:44
rules and you say we promise not to do it again.
14:48
That's the entire this entire world history through through
14:51
money and and and and and Bitcoin.
14:56
Why can't we see what's happening with Bitcoin is
14:58
because it's the opposite. It provides a path away from all
15:02
of the it's provides a path away from all of that And why it's so
15:06
hard to see because nobody's ever seen it before.
15:09
You have to intuit what's possible what is what happens on
15:13
the new rules and and I would say Nico, a lot of what is
15:19
happening is why this is so hard is people are trying to to to in
15:25
in all different levels. They're trying to impose the
15:27
rules that they know on the new rules, and it the new rules
15:32
don't care, it's imposing this. You know I'm getting chills.
15:40
Why? Why you say this?
15:41
Because and and specifically the part where you you talk about
15:46
cause the way that you just described it means that every
15:49
single war that we fought in the last century, you know hundreds
15:53
of millions of people dying is due to broken money.
15:57
Is is that a a? Story world worldwide run hasn't
16:01
ended. It's all about this, OK?
16:05
That's, that's what that's what it's all about and that's and
16:08
all of the deaths and everything else is all about this.
16:10
So it's all about control for money because you can extract
16:13
the resources from the rest of the planet through piece
16:17
printing, more pieces of paper. And they become, it becomes
16:20
modern day slavery for billions of people on the planet
16:24
operating under your rules of the system.
16:26
And eventually people get mad and they go to they go to war
16:30
over that to try to reset that. And so yes, that's exactly what
16:34
I'm saying. And and I see some of the
16:37
comments, the ellipse, it's like nowhere.
16:39
All right. This may be true, but the
16:41
beautiful thing about this is they only have control.
16:46
If you give them control and you don't have to.
16:50
You can just move all your time and energy with all of the
16:53
beautiful people that are creating this network and the
16:56
world heals. And so I for for me, I went down
17:04
this so far in the rabbit hole. I said how could this be killed?
17:08
And I realized there's we have a system that's about 10,000 times
17:12
bigger than Bitcoin that everybody will make stronger
17:16
through their actions because they don't know.
17:18
And I think there's a resolve inside the system.
17:21
And so all of that is going to try to attack Bitcoin it it.
17:25
And so when people look at some of the stuff that that I've done
17:29
and think about what I talk about now, they think I'm too
17:36
positive on this network. I'm only positive on this
17:39
network because once you see decentralized insecurity, how
17:43
important that is for humanity? Once you're Galileo and you've
17:46
looked and you've seen the truth, you're not going back to
17:50
the lie. And so there's too many people
17:53
right now that know this truth and and I'm expecting everything
17:57
to come out of. I can tell you we can talk about
18:00
some of those things right now that are coming after this, but
18:03
they won't be successful because there's too many people and
18:06
there's more people every day that are learning the truth and
18:09
there's more people adding their voice to building the the new
18:12
system. So I would just kind of forget
18:15
all of the nonsense from the other stuff and and just focus
18:19
on building and focusing on spending more of your energy in
18:22
the new system. You'll be happier.
18:24
Yeah, and and I I I could attest to the happiness aspect.
18:30
I I I've seen it myself, individually.
18:33
I've seen it with my wife. I've seen it with my, with my,
18:36
you know, my mom's the best, right?
18:38
She she thought I was absolutely crazy when I adopted Bitcoin in
18:42
2016 for the first two years and now she's saying stuff like end
18:47
the Fed even though she doesn't know how to send a Bitcoin
18:49
transaction. So love you mom but you know
18:53
I've seen it. Every single person who's
18:55
adopted a Bitcoin standard all of a sudden they have optimism.
18:57
They have hope for the future. So 100% agree with you.
19:01
Now where where I'm what I'm curious about though Jeff is how
19:06
you so sure we're gonna win and and and and I'll preface this
19:09
with so you know our our our daily live show I have to be a
19:13
slave to the news cycle and literally stay on top of every
19:17
single thing a little thing that's happening.
19:19
So are the attacks on on Bitcoin from the regulatory aspect.
19:22
You have Elizabeth Warren in the United States using the Wall
19:24
Street Journal to try to convince the Fin CEN you know
19:27
that Bitcoin is using the Fonterra.
19:29
So. So they're basically trying to
19:30
throw everything at the wall, seeing what sticks the current
19:34
bill in in in Congress or has 20 senators signed up to it.
19:38
So how are you so confident, Jeff, that you know Bitcoin is
19:42
going to rule the day? Like, could you, couldn't you
19:44
make an argument that that victories assured but the
19:49
transition could be bumpy? Oh, there I agree with right.
19:54
So, So what people are going to think in the short term, what is
19:57
going to happen in the in in the short term in any year.
20:01
I can't guarantee what what happens there.
20:04
I'm just saying why I'm so confident is we're the network.
20:07
There is no day. And then the more people know
20:10
what this is about, the more people that are building towards
20:13
that and are going to protect it and never going to go back.
20:17
And so there's only we. And if you believe that we
20:20
create the world we want to see, then why would you give your
20:23
energy to somebody else who's who's trying to take that?
20:29
That's that's my, that's my point.
20:32
Now, what are some of the things we could expect I'm going to
20:36
give you. I'm not gonna just use names
20:38
here. I'm not gonna use anything else.
20:40
But if you had lost the decentralization and security of
20:45
the first layer like if you if you lost that and your nation
20:51
States and your and your let's say other coins tied to stable,
20:59
let's say stable coins that buy a lot of US trip treasuries.
21:05
Wouldn't wouldn't that whole system need to try to kill
21:11
lightning and layer twos and layer threes to be able to Co
21:15
opt Bitcoin from the second layer And and there could be
21:19
anything like I'm just saying if I was if I was doctor Evil and I
21:24
knew what I do and I knew everything on on how to try how
21:27
to keep my position on money. I would expect every single
21:33
thing that's happening right now and more.
21:36
And because you then you could suppress Bitcoin from the second
21:39
layer suppress Bitcoin price from the second layer and you
21:43
could slowly transition people to use something else and you
21:46
could manipulate the manipulators price like gold's
21:49
manipulated because you'd suppress price through the
21:53
derivatives instrument. So if they knew that was going
21:58
to happen not might happen was for sure going to happen because
22:01
of greed and and because all current currencies forever have
22:07
always been Co opted. You can see through the lens of
22:10
all the next steps that have to happen.
22:12
And in that world I would say a whole bunch of people right now
22:15
that are talking about Lightning can't scale have they've bought
22:20
into the FUD that the exact that the system has to get them to
22:24
buy into to get them to worry about about a scaling technology
22:30
that is scaling and then then we'll scale into fettiments and
22:34
and and others and and I like we saw this I saw what would happen
22:42
years ago and Lightning can scale to 8 billion people.
22:46
So you have to scale in layers but it can scale a lot bigger
22:50
than it is today and and for a long time and it is scaling.
22:55
So now you're starting to see all of these Kluge layer twos
22:59
and and and and nonsense things that if I was on the other side
23:06
of the Ledger wanting to Co opt the Ledger or trying to make a
23:08
whole bunch of money on a token. If that was my intention, I
23:13
would do it too. But it's not gonna work.
23:16
And why I know it's not gonna work Because part of it is we
23:20
set up a fund a long time ago, and some of the companies we've
23:22
already funded are too far along the road to They won't stop.
23:26
They won't be stopped now. Yeah.
23:30
And you mentioned fedaments. You know, I've been trying to
23:34
keep tabs on what's been going on with her lately.
23:37
And and it's just absolutely fascinating how that's being
23:40
done. And yeah, and I agree with you,
23:44
but I think if you're watching from a third person, like from a
23:48
bird's eye view, I think maybe, perhaps you can get a little bit
23:51
demoralized. But I agree and then I would say
23:54
is never bet against the entrepreneur, right?
23:57
That usually that bet usually doesn't end well.
24:00
The free market's more productive right and and and so
24:03
the free market and people solving problems and and trying
24:07
to make it more decentralized and secure and more and and
24:11
finding ways to be able to grow this against every state attack
24:15
or whatever. Whatever happened, it's already
24:18
moving at a pace that people don't really realize.
24:22
In fact, Nico, you could say myself and I've said this to
24:26
you, I've said this to lots of people because I want them to
24:30
see that I make the same mistake that they might make.
24:34
And for a long time I was a hypocrite in Bitcoin because I
24:38
had a hedge in Bitcoin. But all of my energy was was in
24:43
the existing system. I kind of boards and investing
24:47
in companies in the existing system and so that's why we
24:51
created ego death capital. So I could move my energy into
24:54
the system I wanted to see. I could use my best energy in
24:58
promoting all of the people I loved and and and the world I
25:02
wanted to wanted to see and help that system thrive.
25:09
Now I couldn't tell you I can't like it.
25:12
I I it it. It's how positive that's been.
25:15
Like it was. It felt like, oh bitcoins early
25:18
and and it's at risk to move from here.
25:21
Moving my energy all into this has been the almost the greatest
25:26
gift you could. And because you're around the
25:30
people changing the world every day it's it's like an order of
25:33
magnitude more powerful than the Internet was.
25:36
And I was early in the Internet. Agree I I I can't.
25:40
I agree. I I can't say that I was early.
25:42
I think I was still middle school.
25:47
That stuff I'm. Just too old.
25:52
I did have a BlackBerry in high school and then I think senior
25:55
year I had an iPhone. But I'll say that most of my
25:59
adult, my, my professional career in my adult life has been
26:02
in Bitcoin. So it's all I know and it you
26:05
know what's really crazy, Jeff? Also, what you're saying about
26:07
the Internet stuff is that we have, we have some zoomers that
26:11
that work for simply Bitcoin and and they are so good with the
26:15
Internet stuff because they're native.
26:17
Like they were born in a world where it's just they grew up
26:21
with it. So their ability to, you know, I
26:23
had to, I didn't learn as an older adult, but I still
26:26
learned, you know, a little bit later.
26:28
And they're just innate. It's just like, you know, they
26:30
understand things. And the reason I'm saying this
26:32
is you imagine the generation where they're not Internet
26:36
native, they're Internet and Bitcoin native.
26:38
I'm so like, you know, that I'm really excited for that.
26:43
Anyways, I went, I went on a little bit of a on a side thing,
26:45
'cause I got excited. But you did mention how gold was
26:50
able to be suppressed in price due to derivatives.
26:54
Now that we have the introduction of the Bitcoin
26:57
ETFs, what stops? What stops the same thing being
27:02
done to Bitcoin? So think about it as a far more
27:06
coordinated than any one of these things that you're talking
27:09
about. So, so if I knew what I knew
27:13
when I wanted to stop Bitcoin, I then then I would probably drive
27:18
the ETF so I could get enough supply.
27:21
I would take a regulatory attack factor to make non custodial
27:26
while it's illegal. I might close some ramps and
27:30
insert close some ramps. I would, I would start making
27:36
noise that lightning, lightning couldn't scale and this other
27:41
thing could because it's better. I would do all of these things
27:46
at the same time. Now I don't really believe that
27:49
there is anybody that could do that this level because it's all
27:54
so disjointed in any sort of. But that's what I would do if I
27:58
knew what I know to try to stop this.
28:01
But but people are I think that people are are so they don't
28:06
realize kind of the they're thinking in light switch moments
28:09
rather than transitions and a lot of that's coming because
28:12
they want Bitcoin to go up versus their currency tomorrow.
28:16
And so you get this short term short term thinking and and
28:21
that's not how markets work. What happens is things get more
28:25
break more more people solve that pain on the other side.
28:31
And so we're just early like in the fund and me we're we're
28:36
we're funding the other side of the fight long before the fight
28:40
is even there. And then as as the fight it
28:43
ramps up for there, it provides an off off ramp for all of the
28:48
people that that, that that don't want to live under a
28:52
control system where where every single thing is controlled.
28:57
And so I add like the the same thing and the NSA is being able
29:01
to spy on you right now. That's like these are Orwellian
29:04
tactics that are happening right now, but they're designed from a
29:07
system that must control your every action.
29:10
So all of these things if you just looked actually even
29:13
through the book I wrote, you knew they would happen, you knew
29:17
they had to happen. And so I just don't give them
29:19
energy. I'm just moving to the the, the
29:23
the other side and and and there's a lot of people, there's
29:28
a lot of people and probably listening to this too that are
29:32
doing the same thing. And when you meet all those
29:35
people all over the world and you're seeing different ideas
29:38
that can solve different things and move move forward faster and
29:41
faster. It's just wildly hopeful and it
29:45
makes me stay away from clown world, honestly.
29:50
Yeah, I got AII. Unfortunately you have to cover
29:54
gun. Words so but so look at look at
30:01
people that are accurate in predicting the future over and
30:04
over and over again versus people that talk about the the
30:08
yelling right. Today's today's world captures
30:13
your attention. So it it if it if it rewarded
30:18
the people who were accurate all the time, then then those people
30:22
would be the most famous people. But today the most famous people
30:27
are the people that that constantly are wrong, completely
30:32
wrong. And they're because they're
30:35
telling the people what they want to hear today and the
30:37
people are being divided more and more.
30:39
So you have division over here and yelling at the other side
30:42
because our attention is tracked by like we slow down in a car
30:48
crash. And so if you have a algorithm
30:52
based on car crashes, then there's car crashes everywhere
30:56
and you're giving more attention to the people that are doing
30:58
that. And Peter Schiff is always on TV
31:02
and and and so you're always getting this this thing even
31:06
though it's wrong. He's been wrong for how many
31:09
years. And I I don't want to just
31:11
maybe. Maybe he's a media personality,
31:13
maybe that. But imagine the number of people
31:16
that that touches versus actually spending some time and
31:21
understanding where the future is going and from.
31:25
So I I just think our whole that whole system based on
31:29
misinformation must keep feeding the beast and and you can get a
31:34
lot of views by feeding the beast.
31:36
Yeah, 100%. And especially with how social
31:40
media platforms and kind of the video platforms are structured.
31:44
I and Jeff, I have, I have a question for you.
31:47
So the the, you know, we're talking about this amazing
31:53
feature that even after everything that you said, I'm
31:55
still it's it's like it's I'm so used to living in Fiat world and
32:00
the PTSD that comes with Fiat and a bit of nihilism that comes
32:04
with the Fiat world that you know, even living on a Bitcoin
32:08
standard. I'm like, OK it's coming.
32:10
I know it's coming. But but it's what you said
32:15
there's there's been no moment in history to kind of imagine
32:19
that that future. What There's no comparison, I
32:21
would say. But my question to you is how
32:24
long is this going to take. So I just had a daughter about a
32:26
month and a half ago my first kid and you know I'm looking at
32:31
her and I'm like, OK you know she she's going to be on a
32:33
Bitcoin standard. She's going to be a bitcoiner.
32:36
She's going to be fine. I have nothing to worry about
32:39
but how long is this transition going to take.
32:41
How long is it going to take to play out, you know, and and then
32:44
I think the moments in history that you can, I guess, compare
32:47
it to is perhaps maybe the separation of church and state.
32:50
And that was a very bloody affair.
32:52
And it took, you know, it took some time.
32:54
So you know what? What is your opinion on the
32:56
separation of money and state? How long is this gonna take?
32:59
What's your timeline on this? Do we have any?
33:02
We have no idea what to compare it to.
33:05
Yeah. So a long time, but you don't
33:09
have to wait, nor does the person in Nigeria.
33:12
Nor does the person. You don't have to wait for your
33:14
country to to get it. You don't have to wait for
33:17
anybody to get it. You can move.
33:19
So I would, I would bet Nico, that your life and what you do
33:24
looks a lot more positive than many of your friends measuring
33:27
from Fiat world. And I'm going to wait for you to
33:29
come back on just to answer that.
33:32
Absolutely, 100% it does, yes. So, so you're not waiting,
33:36
you're already living in, you're already living in the future and
33:40
it's getting and it's getting better and better for for you.
33:42
And so when people people ask me all the time when will they're
33:47
spending 90% of the time or 95% of the time reinforcing clown
33:52
world. I I kind of asked when for you
33:56
because that's what matters. And then the more and more
33:59
people that move their time over, the more people see
34:01
exactly what you're saying versus your friends because
34:04
they're just measuring from an A system based on on theft and you
34:09
aren't. And so your life is getting
34:12
better and better as a result of that and more hopeful because
34:15
because of that how long there's a whole bunch of people that if
34:20
if you pull up Bitcoin price in Argentina right now that has
34:25
that, you'd see 55,000,000 per Bitcoin.
34:29
There's a whole bunch of people that still believe that
34:31
Argentina peso still has value and they're measuring in in
34:36
that. So.
34:37
So if that's the way that the world works and they don't see
34:40
it yet then probably a long time because the other thing that
34:44
that influences is every time those currencies devalue to the
34:48
extent that they do, the US dollar gets stronger and it
34:52
extends the life of the US dollar because those people
34:55
think U.S. dollar is a good thing and they go and try to
34:59
save in U.S. dollars. When really what your what the
35:02
US in this situation is doing is strip mining those populations
35:07
from all of their productivity and and so if they don't see it
35:12
yet and they haven't moved to Bitcoin even though they anyone
35:15
in that population could, then then I suspect this is going to
35:20
take a long time but it doesn't have to.
35:23
It like the speed is driven by us.
35:25
The speed is driven by how much of our time we move into the new
35:29
system and to each other. So things like your show and all
35:34
the incredible people that are trying to spread this around the
35:37
world. So other people are saying it.
35:40
We're all connected through that.
35:42
And the more connection we have, the the world doesn't look like
35:47
people. Look, if you go to all these
35:49
countries and actually meet people, they look the same
35:51
everywhere, same hope, same dreams, same.
35:54
And you see that in Bitcoin. And you see that in Bitcoin
35:57
conferences, no matter where somebody is, we're all one.
36:01
And so as you start to realize that when your time matters in
36:05
the system, you start spending more time in your system, but
36:08
you don't have to wait for anybody.
36:10
Yeah and and and I think that's a a again a concept that is, is
36:16
is very interesting in the sense that you know in the in the old
36:21
the previous system, the old system in a way it does matter
36:26
that there is some type of that you're kind of involved and and
36:30
and it's in the sense that if someone else is involved the
36:32
political situation, but it's what you said in in in the
36:35
Bitcoin system you just you could just opt out right.
36:38
You could take self custody and you can essentially, you know,
36:41
cross the border. If you need to go to a more
36:44
favorable jurisdiction, you can be living in.
36:48
Hypothetically, you can be living in a totalitarian country
36:51
and if you have your Bitcoin in self custody and you know you
36:55
have the capability of receiving payments, you have the Internet,
36:57
all that stuff, you can kind of have an Oasis in in the middle
37:01
of a of a, you know, of a yeah. And and that gets easier because
37:07
with fetamines and and such, all of this gets way easier and it
37:10
spreads faster. And so this is building.
37:12
It's still really early, but as people start to understand that
37:15
they control the future, not some, some, no government, when
37:20
they're yelling at all of this stuff, they're actually making
37:22
the things strong, they're making their lives worse and
37:24
making the things stronger that they hate and all they need to
37:28
do is move, shift their time. But that's that's hard to tell
37:32
somebody, right? That's really hard to say
37:34
because because. And we all know this, we know
37:37
friends that are so sure they're right, even though they're mad,
37:42
right? And and they're just reflecting
37:45
back at themselves, their worldview, through their their
37:49
conscience, but they're so sure and they'll defend their
37:51
worldview over and over and over again.
37:53
I can just tell you for me, the world's already changed.
37:58
Yeah, yeah, it's. Yeah and world's changed for me
38:03
too. And I guess the world's changed
38:05
for the people around you, that people around you that have
38:08
adopted Bitcoin and it's what you said that things get
38:12
exponentially cheaper and by things getting cheaper and.
38:17
Every. Yeah, and then every And then
38:20
every country. It has always tried to attract
38:25
labour and capital, the best labour and capital.
38:28
Who do you think they're going to try to attract and and
38:31
exactly and what and and the people that stay what will those
38:35
countries look like because those people will live in cages
38:38
until they until they revolt and and take over those countries.
38:43
So it's going to change it's going to but but we weren't live
38:48
meant to live in cages and and so the world is going to look
38:53
like this again. The only why I constantly say if
38:56
Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure it's inevitable because
39:00
then people can start, OK then I'm going to focus all my energy
39:04
on will it stay decentralized and secure.
39:08
And once you understand that you are the thing keeping it
39:11
decentralized and secure and all of the innovation trying to
39:14
build that, then you start to then you start to become part of
39:19
the network that protects it. This is fascinating, OK?
39:26
And Jeff, I kind of back to this, this concept of things
39:31
will get exponentially cheaper, right.
39:34
And and and it relates to the question of, you know, are are
39:37
we late? And you said no, things will get
39:39
exponentially cheaper if you adopt A Bitcoin standard.
39:42
And the I think one of the things that you brought up was
39:45
it's because you're comparing it to the US token, the US altcoin
39:50
token that's pushed upon us through violence and coercion,
39:55
right. So can you, can you talk a
39:58
little bit about that? Cause again, that's one of those
40:00
things, just like you're describing all these things,
40:03
Jeff, that of course, I understand this deeply as a
40:07
bitcoiner, 'cause I get Bitcoin conceptually and I understand
40:10
this, but it's very hard to imagine things getting
40:14
exponentially cheaper. So could you, could you talk a
40:16
little bit about that? For sure.
40:18
And that's why that's why I think this this one in
40:21
particular. You know what you said I've I've
40:25
read your book. I've talked to you many times
40:28
we're friends and and I still the penny hasn't totally
40:30
dropped. Remember being on Peter
40:35
Mccormick's show and I think for the 4th time and talked for
40:39
years and when the penny finally dropped for him and and and so
40:45
here's but it just shows you how much every sink time somebody
40:51
prices Bitcoin in their U.S. dollars and their token.
40:55
They haven't they it tells you they don't get it Every time
40:58
they say bitcoins going up it tells you that they don't get it
41:03
because here's here's what the world wealth looks like today.
41:06
About 900 trillion in total global wealth 400 trillion.
41:10
Adapt. The 400 trillion is already
41:13
insolvent. It would take 12,873,000 years
41:17
to pay back that debt. It's already completely
41:20
insolvent. Yet people play.
41:22
Every person playing within that game is saying I'm going to get
41:26
trapped in the system and all my labor and capital is going to
41:28
get captured as this gets more and more insolvent because it's
41:32
already insolvent. And so they're measuring from
41:35
that system. So today if you did 900 trillion
41:39
/ 21 million or you could do it divided but with whatever you
41:44
want for lost coins, you would get the implied value of each
41:49
Bitcoin today If it stays decentralized and secure, that's
41:53
the that is the value based on today's purchasing power of of
41:57
of Bitcoin. But there's two things that if
42:01
you're measuring through that system, you're going to get
42:03
really confused about. In five years, that 900 trillion
42:08
will not be 900 trillion. It'll be something like 2
42:12
quadrillion. So it'll more than double in the
42:15
next five years, I suspect because it has to, because of
42:19
the amount of monetary easing, to be able to keep that system
42:22
solvent, especially with how fast technology is moving the
42:25
other way, we'll have to massively increase the amount of
42:30
money supply massively. So let's use 2 quadrillion at
42:34
that time. So five years from now, then
42:37
that 46,000,000 per Bitcoin today would turn into 9292
42:42
million per Bitcoin tomorrow. And it hasn't gone up.
42:47
That's the point. The other lever that's happening
42:49
at the exact same time, which is so hard to measure, is the the.
42:54
The productivity in the market is moving faster and faster and
42:57
faster. AI and robotics will merge.
43:00
AI and robotics will create food for free.
43:02
Energy prices will come to almost free all of these things,
43:06
meaning in today's dollar, the dollar, the purchasing power of
43:13
today's dollar will get exponentially more valuable.
43:17
So with with with that many levers kind of happening at the
43:22
same time to try to measure this through the debasing currency, I
43:27
I it, it, it's it, It is one of them.
43:30
And I don't want to say pet peeves, 'cause I know people do
43:33
it. But when everybody takes their
43:35
Bitcoin to the piece of paper, the debasing currency, to
43:38
measure the wealth and value of the Bitcoin, they're missing the
43:41
point. And and and and when?
43:45
And the free just keep on, say it over and over.
43:49
Go say it 10 times before I go to sleep.
43:51
The free market, the natural state of the free market is
43:54
deflation. Keep saying it, Keep saying it,
43:57
Keep saying it. What is the only thing that can
44:00
measure the free market? The only thing that doesn't have
44:04
counterparty risk to the existing system.
44:07
It's Bitcoin now that will measure the free market forever,
44:12
as long as it stays decentralized and secure.
44:14
And that's what's happening Relative.
44:18
Yeah, relative to that means most of the things in your life
44:23
will be free. Sorry Jeff, a penny just
44:25
dropped. This is blowing my mind but I'm
44:30
getting it. I'm understanding it and I
44:32
appreciate you breaking it down like that.
44:35
And and you keep saying this, this, this phrase and I I really
44:40
want people to take agency and action on this specific thing
44:44
right. And the if is if it stays
44:46
decentralized and secure. So what can individuals like
44:49
myself, and I think you touched up on it a little bit earlier,
44:52
but what can individuals like myself and people watching in
44:54
the audience, what can they do to ensure that Bitcoin stays
44:59
decentralized and secure? So so #1, many of the things
45:05
that people are up in their arms about aren't true risks and and
45:12
and could be. It could even be worse the
45:18
attack factors to try to get people to to be scared of this.
45:21
So they enter into something else, into the into the base
45:25
code, so to to add functionality in the base layer that then sets
45:30
up a sets up a risk factor. The you could say even by this
45:38
conversation people think they're good at seeing the
45:41
future and most people are very good at measuring the present
45:44
forecasted forward and that's why they don't see things like
45:47
this. So Bitcoin, my view for Bitcoin
45:50
is probably a little bit different and it's probably
45:52
changed over time is it is a permissionless, decentralized
45:57
and secure protocol bounded by energy that creates energy
46:02
abundance by its very nature and a protocol.
46:05
Why would people be confused by protocol versus technology?
46:10
We see technologies more often than we see protocols far more
46:13
often. So we see electricity.
46:15
We see all the companies built on top of electricity, a change.
46:18
And that's the technology We don't see.
46:21
Or we see blockchain, which is a technology and we don't see
46:25
protocols. Protocols come distinctively in
46:28
layers and those layers do very narrow, narrow things and then
46:34
come in layers to be able to add more, add more functional.
46:38
So protecting those layers, protecting the base base layer,
46:44
all of the different ideas Even so you can see them moving.
46:53
What's the mining pool? What's the recent mining pool?
46:56
I just forgot the name ocean. Ocean.
46:59
There's an example of of more and more decentralization or
47:03
free market competitor realizing realizing about decentralization
47:08
and having a different unique view to be able to make sure
47:12
mining pools are decentralized. It's it's what will happen what
47:15
is happening and so so Bitcoin is protected by this network of
47:20
us doing this constantly. So what we can do is be very
47:26
slow to adopt changes that that very slow.
47:31
I so I'm, I'm, I'm in an ossify camp unless there's something
47:36
that needs to be needs to be changed and I'm and why I'm in
47:41
that camp is because I understand the risk of failure
47:45
of the base layer. And so my note isn't going to
47:48
vote for something against myself interest or or or a short
47:54
term something that people can make a bunch of money on or add
47:57
something else that then sacrifices decentralization and
48:00
security. So most of the stuff that you
48:04
you can see, even in the order knows debate and all of these
48:07
things, I just don't give it any time because it it's painful.
48:12
If you want to create a whole bunch of Jpegs on this, it's
48:14
painful, but you're actually incenting the minors to get
48:18
bigger faster. But it won't break this because
48:23
the free market is going to punish those in a different way
48:27
and and and so I just those types of things I don't spend a
48:31
lot of time in and I would, I would say if I worried about
48:34
something you'll, you'll hear it.
48:38
Yeah. Yeah.
48:39
And so you know the with in, in regards to the, the ordinals and
48:46
the inscription, you know topic. And it's very, very emotional
48:50
right now. People feel very, very strongly
48:52
about it. You remember this thing called
48:55
Satoshi's dice, and it was like in the early history of Bitcoin.
49:00
How is this any different? And then my my response would be
49:03
like, isn't this eventually gonna be just priced out in in
49:06
in total Like the idea of putting a a, I I think American
49:10
Hottel was the one that phrased it.
49:11
But it's like, you know, putting a Jay burger using your
49:15
ordinals. Like the equivalent of taking
49:16
Emirates First class on a 30 minute flight from Miami to
49:19
Orlando or. Something like that and and
49:22
that's why I I I really like that idea.
49:26
The free market it will not live so so having a Oracle in the
49:32
middle of you on the base chain it won't work.
49:35
The free market will it'll price it out and in the meantime
49:38
miners are getting wealthier on on all these Jpegs so it's
49:42
building out the security security.
49:45
I don't I don't like how it's confusing people.
49:48
I don't like all the nonsense about that.
49:50
I don't know. I like how many people are going
49:52
to lose money on this and and and I don't like kind of the
49:57
crypto casinos everything that's happening.
49:59
But it's kind of a maybe maybe part of part of people's path to
50:06
Bitcoin. Some people's paths to Bitcoin
50:09
is I have to lose a whole bunch of money and all this other
50:11
nonsense to be able to understand the depth of this
50:14
network. I don't know.
50:16
But, but but it's it's it's not going to it's not going to hurt
50:23
Bitcoin at all and and at all. I agree with that.
50:30
I I agree with that too. I I stay silent about it.
50:32
I don't we don't really talk about it on on the live show on
50:35
The Daily Show, on the news show.
50:36
Just 'cause we're just so hell bent on the kind of separation
50:40
of money and state and all the kind of geopolitical events
50:43
surrounding that, which is it's absolutely fascinating.
50:46
And one of the things also Jeff like is not only the kind of
50:51
disintermediation of money which I, I, I don't even believe we've
50:55
even got into that point in terms of the fight.
50:58
But what I'm starting to see is the fight for the
51:01
disintermediation of information.
51:03
And it's absolutely fascinating just kind of seeing, you know
51:08
governments responding to the idea of peer-to-peer
51:12
communications on a mass scale without information going
51:17
through a handful of gatekeepers which they can absolutely
51:20
control the narrative on and what was really and I and I had
51:24
a suspicion on this, but it was really eye opening to see the
51:28
interview that Tucker Carlson did with Mike Benz.
51:31
And it was just fascinating how much the government even in the
51:36
United States with the 1st Amendment protection, it was so
51:40
concerned about peer-to-peer communications, right about
51:44
individuals following these these individuals accumulating
51:49
these massive followings. And it just, I can't help but to
51:52
think what you were saying about it, saying about it earlier that
51:56
in these systems of control and under under a Fiat standard,
52:00
this thing is at these censorship, A censorship is
52:04
absolutely required for the system to work in the 1st place.
52:08
Why is that the case? Hey, I'm sorry if that's an
52:11
obvious question. Yeah, money is superordinate to
52:15
lots. Lot money is.
52:16
So the Constitution was a really good piece of paper to protect
52:20
use of U.S. citizens and what that gave is Magna Carta was
52:25
too. And every time you introduced
52:27
property rights and free rights freedom of speech to citizens,
52:31
they market economy because the free market is more powerful
52:34
than any centralized control structure because there's more
52:37
ideas, more shots on that in service of us they're just way
52:42
more productive. So.
52:43
So the thing that built the US that into being the strong, the
52:48
most powerful nation in the world was the free market and it
52:51
was actually the fight against kind of the taxes and the and
52:55
the the robbery that was happening from from Great
52:57
Britain. And one time the sun never sat
53:01
on the British Empire and then it started to set and they
53:06
needed to steal more and more So as that's that's what bore the
53:10
US that was the fight and and that was the constitution after
53:14
hard long fights that gave a free market that that that was
53:20
more productive than anywhere else in the world.
53:23
And then that free market was slowly captured with with the
53:28
Federal Reserve in the 1st place but then leading to endless wars
53:32
to be able to kind of control money.
53:34
So it's always been money is superordinate to laws and you
53:39
can see your constitution getting broken down and those
53:41
rules getting captured because money is superordinate to us.
53:47
And so if you have more money and you have more power and you
53:51
can convince people to fight against each other, then you can
53:55
convince them to consolidate your power.
53:58
If it didn't look like that, then the places with the most
54:01
broken money would have the best laws protecting their citizens
54:06
so that you can clearly see this around the world.
54:09
I just, I'm surprised that people can't see it in their own
54:13
in in in in their own world. Yeah, and I I think, and you
54:17
know, I think people over time, they're pretty grudgingly and
54:21
like, you know, slowly but surely waking up to this
54:24
reality. So that's that's actually and
54:28
and the think about this, here's maybe a way to look at Bitcoin
54:31
Level 0. I know nothing about it.
54:34
Is this other thing Level 1? I I, I might, I might start to
54:38
learn about Level 2. I hold it in I I hold it in
54:42
Counterparty risk or ETF. Level 3.
54:46
I start to and I go down and then I'm running a node and then
54:49
I'm spending all of my time in this.
54:52
The world is going from mostly Level 0 and everybody in this,
54:58
this all the way down to Level 10 is all in.
55:01
And they're never going back. And there's more and more people
55:06
going down that ladder to to the bottom of the Bitcoin rabbit
55:11
hole. And as they get there, it's a
55:13
check valve. They're never going back.
55:16
And so as you start to go a little further and you start to
55:20
see a whole bunch of the things you took for granted that you
55:23
thought were true were untrue. You go deeper and you want to go
55:27
to the next, the next level. And then you see other things
55:31
are not true and you start to awaken what the world could look
55:35
like under a different system. How did we get there?
55:38
We get there from this. We get there from building more
55:41
products, all the all the technology that's being built to
55:44
make this easier. But we got there through
55:46
education. We got there through having
55:48
these conversations that people go deeper and deeper in the
55:52
penny drops. So but that you would have to
55:57
believe that for this not to, for this not to win, you would
56:03
have to believe that everyone will choose to live in the other
56:06
system. And there's just too many people
56:07
that know this now, and there's more learning it every day.
56:10
And and just in from like a, so I live in, I live in Miami,
56:15
right. And you know you see this you
56:16
hear this all the time where you know Cubans risk their lives
56:19
they get on a raft you know in the hope of finding freedom in
56:23
the United States right. You know the Berlin Wall is a
56:25
great example that was a one way St. were fleeing towards a
56:31
system of control and tyranny people were trying to escape it.
56:34
So I I I agree with you I think fundamentally humans earn
56:38
freedom. Now my, my, my final question
56:41
that I want to give you the opportunity also to to just say
56:44
your final thoughts is when we talk about who are the
56:47
benefactors of of of the, the Fiat system, are we talking
56:53
about, are these politicians, is this a government who who
56:59
constantly does this? Like what?
57:00
What is going on? Who are the benefactors, even
57:03
though it's a few. But who are they, exactly?
57:06
So, so today you could just say anyone.
57:12
So anyone within the US, even at the bottom of the pyramid or the
57:17
US are benefactors from anybody in Democratic Republic of Congo
57:23
you could say, because you steal their labor and materials cobalt
57:27
to be able to build the electric cars and that wouldn't work
57:31
unless their currency was constantly revalued to pay them
57:33
$2.50 a day and working cobalt. So they're they're modern.
57:38
It's modern day slavery that we're extracting that from all
57:40
over the world, same in Canada, same in so anybody in our
57:44
countries. And then and then the more
57:48
wealth you have in that country, the more you're extracting from
57:52
a system that should make the world more productive.
57:56
Riches to all 8 billion of us that extracts in the service of
58:01
you. Why people are just now starting
58:03
to see this in the US is because now inflation is rising in their
58:08
own world. But this has been the way of
58:10
life to protect the system for a long time all around the world.
58:16
So you could say by very nature of that, there's five hundred
58:20
500 million people and a growing a smaller and smaller amount.
58:24
Many of those people, including me, are on this call, right, and
58:29
we don't know it. Extracting from 7 1/2 billion
58:33
people, what does this look like?
58:36
8 billion people being in the service of all 8 billion people.
58:41
And and why it's unstoppable and why it's so hard to even imagine
58:45
what that looks like is we've never seen it in human history.
58:48
What it looks like when every one of our actions is in service
58:52
of everyone else and every every node in this network makes the
58:55
network stronger for everyone else.
58:57
So it's it's incredibly powerful, Yeah.
59:02
Absolutely. It's it.
59:04
It it blows my mind And the penny drop live during the show
59:10
and we didn't hear the sound but it happened.
59:14
So Jeff, like always you absolutely blow my mind when you
59:17
come on the show and it's truly an honor to have you on every
59:20
single time. And I really, really enjoy our
59:23
conversations and I hope everyone did as well.
59:25
So just want to give you an opportunity to, you know, just
59:28
say your final thoughts before we wrap it up and then if
59:31
there's anything that you want to promote or anyone you want to
59:34
talk about. Ego death is super cool what you
59:36
guys are doing there. Congratulations for bringing on
59:38
Preston on recently. That was amazing.
59:40
Preston is an absolute, you know.
59:43
Yeah, exactly. Super, super genius.
59:46
Saw him in at the having party in El Savaran.
59:48
That was incredible. Oh wait wait, wait.
59:49
I'm. I'm going to totally hijack this
59:51
for a second. Jeff, would it be safe to say as
59:55
a Latin American, I, I visited El Salvador and it blew my mind
1:00:00
in so many which ways in terms of just the security on the
1:00:05
ground there, the optimism in the in the people.
1:00:08
I'm bilingual, so the first thing that I got there was I
1:00:10
just started sparking up conversations, 'cause I wanted
1:00:12
to get to kind of like the bottom of it.
1:00:15
You know, you hear so many things, but there's only so much
1:00:17
you could trust from third parties.
1:00:19
And I just wanted to ask questions.
1:00:21
Is is it too early to tell or is that an?
1:00:23
Is that an example for society that has fixed the base layer?
1:00:28
It's it's probably too early to tell if it sticks because any
1:00:34
politician could change that. But that's the optimism.
1:00:36
You're you're saying the hope and prosperity of a free market
1:00:39
that's moving towards this and it's and what they came from to
1:00:43
what they're going from is such a stark difference.
1:00:45
I was there three years ago on the TO like when was the chair
1:00:50
that was there as soon as they announced this and and it was
1:00:55
early, early, early then and I hear every year it just gets
1:00:58
better. By the way their bonds have been
1:01:00
upgraded twice while the US bonds have been downgraded twice
1:01:03
in the same same time. So, so you just see the free
1:01:07
market responding and so you could expect that to you could
1:01:11
expect that to accelerate all over the all over the world.
1:01:15
That's tremendously exciting, to say at least.
1:01:17
OK, I'm sorry, I totally hijacked it.
1:01:19
Just had to get that off my chest.
1:01:21
But do you have any final thoughts?
1:01:22
Or you know my my only final thoughts since please stay on
1:01:26
the screen for for this and start going the is this is what
1:01:30
it looks like like why we're friends why Preston and I are
1:01:34
friends Lynn and I are friends like all of the the the these
1:01:36
people is these people are that that are building this right
1:01:40
now. Yeah.
1:01:42
I'm gonna I'm gonna look back 20 years from now and just remember
1:01:46
all of these moments of these incredibly wonderful people
1:01:50
building this network and then there's just gonna be more of us
1:01:53
right. That's it's it's like, what a
1:01:56
ride. What a crazy ride.
1:01:59
Yeah, I I think it was Harry Setak who said it or I think he
1:02:03
said it on Ben's show BTC Sessions.
1:02:05
And he was like, these days are the days that you will remember,
1:02:09
you know, 30-40 years from now. So Jeff, like I said, it's
1:02:13
always an honour to have you on the show.
1:02:15
Thank you so much for joining me.
1:02:16
Appreciate it. Awesome.
1:02:18
Thanks. All right guys, that was another
1:02:20
episode of Simply Bitcoin IRL, if you enjoyed the episode, you
1:02:22
need to do smash the like button.
1:02:23
Consider subscribing. We'll be back for the live show
1:02:26
tomorrow at 12:15 PM Eastern Standard Time.
1:02:29
It's gonna be hosted by Optimus Fields.
1:02:32
Sophie's gonna be in the Co host seat, and then on Friday it's
1:02:35
gonna be Opti hosting it and Adam O'Brien from Bitcoin.
1:02:38
Well, so I'll see you guys on Monday after I come back from
1:02:41
Nashville. Love you all guys.
1:02:43
Have an incredible weekend and thank you so much for tuning
1:02:46
into another episode of Simply Bitcoin IRL.
1:02:50
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