Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1023 - 10 Fights Worth Having

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#1023 - 10 Fights Worth Having · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:07
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 2: Now, well, it's not an adult to adult conversation, and
0:12
Speaker 2: I would say welcome to parent Who, because we do
0:15
Speaker 2: talk to Webb blue in the face and the kids
0:17
Speaker 2: really do think that they know better. Well, I mean,
0:19
Speaker 2: I'm astounded at how much our eight year old really
0:22
Speaker 2: thinks that she knows compared to us.
0:24
Speaker 3: She knows everything.
0:25
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:28
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:29
Speaker 3: Gooday, this is.
0:29
Speaker 2: Doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy Families dot com.
0:32
Speaker 2: Do you and that to six kids? I'm here with Kylie,
0:35
Speaker 2: my wife and mum to those six kids as well,
0:38
Speaker 2: and Kylie. Today a conversation that we're going to have
0:41
Speaker 2: a courtesy of Craig Bruce, our executive producer. He said,
0:45
Speaker 2: you guys need to talk about the fights that you
0:47
Speaker 2: have to have with your kids, ten fights that parents
0:50
Speaker 2: have got to have with their kids, because it's worth
0:52
Speaker 2: fighting about this stuff.
0:55
Speaker 3: So that's what we're going to do.
0:56
Speaker 4: I don't really know where to go with this one
0:58
Speaker 4: because I am so over fighting with our kids.
1:03
Speaker 3: I would love what do you mean, what do you mean,
1:05
Speaker 3: missus happy families. We don't fight with our children.
1:07
Speaker 4: I would love to think that we could come up
1:09
Speaker 4: with something better than a fight.
1:11
Speaker 2: I'm the author of all these books about how to
1:13
Speaker 2: not fight with your kids, but how to have a
1:14
Speaker 2: happy family. What do you mean, I don't know what
1:16
Speaker 2: you're talking about. Hang on a sec I just need
1:19
Speaker 2: to go and put my head back in the sand
1:21
Speaker 2: while you do this podcast on your own.
1:23
Speaker 4: Well, I was about to say, anyone who has a
1:26
Speaker 4: child a they don't even need to have six. Yeah,
1:30
Speaker 4: we'd know that this is a conversation that you're going
1:32
Speaker 4: to have over and over again.
1:34
Speaker 2: The reality is, if you're in relationship with someone, anyone,
1:38
Speaker 2: if you're in relationship with somebody, you are going to
1:40
Speaker 2: have disputes. There's going to be conflict, There's going to
1:43
Speaker 2: be disagreement. There are all different ways that we can
1:46
Speaker 2: deal with those disagreements and those conflicts. But there will
1:49
Speaker 2: be preferences that one person holds that are not consistent
1:53
Speaker 2: with the preferences that the other person holds. And if
1:56
Speaker 2: that person, the other person in the relationship, that's not.
1:59
Speaker 4: You, happens to be twelve.
2:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say twelve months, But it
2:04
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter. They're going to have a different opinion.
2:07
Speaker 2: They're going to see the world differently, different perspective, different preferences,
2:10
Speaker 2: and so on, and the conflict is bound to an issue.
2:13
Speaker 2: And when they're younger, they're also fairly clumsy in the
2:18
Speaker 2: way that they express their preferences and the way they
2:21
Speaker 2: try to.
2:22
Speaker 4: I don't think that that is just for the young.
2:26
Speaker 2: No, of course not. I mean, your mum, did I
2:29
Speaker 2: just say that? Oh my goodness, I can't believe I
2:30
Speaker 2: just said that. We need to bleep that out. I'm
2:33
Speaker 2: just kidding.
2:33
Speaker 3: Let's move on.
2:34
Speaker 2: So let's talk about these ten fights that you absolutely
2:36
Speaker 2: have to have. We've made lists, folks, We've made a list,
2:39
Speaker 2: but we're only going to spend about one second on
2:42
Speaker 2: each of them because we feel like there's a more
2:44
Speaker 2: important conversation to be had than what the actual content
2:47
Speaker 2: or topics of the fights are. Let's start and we'll
2:51
Speaker 2: go through them in age order. Okay, So from the
2:54
Speaker 2: youngest age, when do the fights start and what are
2:57
Speaker 2: they about?
2:57
Speaker 3: Through to middle childhood and then through to adulthood.
3:00
Speaker 4: As soon as that baby lands in your arms. There's
3:03
Speaker 4: fights about sleeping and eating.
3:06
Speaker 2: And yeah, and it gets worse as they get older, right,
3:08
Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is you're probably not going to
3:10
Speaker 2: fight with them when they're little. You just, in a
3:13
Speaker 2: perfect world, you will give them whatever they want. They
3:15
Speaker 2: scream and you bend over backwards to make sure that
3:18
Speaker 2: they're satisfied. I'm screaming that their needs are met. That
3:22
Speaker 2: scream is a really effective way of making sure that
3:24
Speaker 2: people pay attention and give me what I want. But
3:26
Speaker 2: as they get older, the sleep conversation and the food conversation,
3:31
Speaker 2: I mean, if we're unlucky, it can go for years.
3:35
Speaker 4: Well, as they get older than we start talking about friends,
3:38
Speaker 4: right and parties and sleepovers.
3:40
Speaker 3: Yeah oh yeah, yeah, these these.
3:42
Speaker 4: Become really big challenging issues as our kids start to
3:46
Speaker 4: gain a little bit of independence and they just get bigger.
3:50
Speaker 2: You didn't mention, you didn't mention the fights in early
3:53
Speaker 2: childhood about it's time to leave the park, or you've
3:56
Speaker 2: got to wear your seat.
3:58
Speaker 4: Belt, or no, I'm not going to buy you something
4:00
Speaker 4: every time I go to the shop.
4:01
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Or I know that everyone's probably anticipating
4:04
Speaker 2: that we're going to say that the screen time fights
4:06
Speaker 2: start when they're teenagers, but hello, have you ever taken
4:09
Speaker 2: the screen off a two year old?
4:11
Speaker 3: I mean that starts at the very beginning. I've lost count.
4:14
Speaker 2: There's a lot of fights that we could potentially have
4:16
Speaker 2: with our kids, and as parents, by the way, let's
4:20
Speaker 2: let's finish the list by the time the kids are
4:21
Speaker 2: in their teen years.
4:22
Speaker 3: We've got things like.
4:23
Speaker 4: Social media, alcohol and drugs, intimacy, sex and pornography, resect, resect, respect,
4:30
Speaker 4: rect respect, consideration of others, and I've actually put dress
4:35
Speaker 4: on there. I think that there's, you know, some really
4:38
Speaker 4: important conversations we need to have with our kids around
4:40
Speaker 4: self respect and you.
4:42
Speaker 3: Know, I guess how we display ourselves, yeah, and how the.
4:45
Speaker 4: World sees us as a result. I'm not suggesting for
4:47
Speaker 4: a second that we kind of dress for other people.
4:50
Speaker 2: You're on the kind of ground here where some people
4:53
Speaker 2: could get quite upset. But let's be honest. When we've
4:55
Speaker 2: got a thirteen or a fourteen year old walking around
4:59
Speaker 2: sending specific messages to the people around him or her
5:03
Speaker 2: through the way that they're dressing, it can have an
5:05
Speaker 2: impact on any number of things. So I think that
5:07
Speaker 2: it's definitely worth a conversation. And there are going to
5:09
Speaker 2: be some families who will think not at all, and
5:11
Speaker 2: other families who are right there beside you on that one.
5:14
Speaker 4: So I guess the conversation really is not so much
5:17
Speaker 4: about how do we have these fights with our kids,
5:19
Speaker 4: because any parent would suggest that the last thing they
5:23
Speaker 4: want to do is have another fight.
5:24
Speaker 2: But every single one of these things is a he'll
5:26
Speaker 2: to die on from a parent point of view and
5:28
Speaker 2: definitely from a child point of view.
5:30
Speaker 3: And ultimately this comes down to this conversation about control.
5:33
Speaker 3: As a parent. Some parents would say, let's go to
5:36
Speaker 3: the clothing issue.
5:37
Speaker 2: I will not let you leave the house looking like that,
5:40
Speaker 2: or the alcohol issue. You're not going to that party
5:43
Speaker 2: if there's going to be alcohol there, full stop, end
5:45
Speaker 2: of story. You're twelve, or you're sixteen, or you're whatever.
5:49
Speaker 2: And some parents will say, you're not leaving the table
5:51
Speaker 2: until you've eaten all four of those peace.
5:53
Speaker 3: Four of them. It's only four peace.
5:55
Speaker 2: And you need to have something green, and you need
5:57
Speaker 2: to have And so as parents, we see these things
5:59
Speaker 2: as critically important and things that have to be controlled.
6:03
Speaker 4: Why we see ourselves as being kind of in charge
6:06
Speaker 4: of our kids' safety and they're well being.
6:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're trying to protect them. It was more
6:11
Speaker 2: of a rhetorical question, but I'm glad you answered it. Yeah,
6:13
Speaker 2: it's about saying I want you to grow up healthy
6:15
Speaker 2: and strong.
6:16
Speaker 5: And safe, and that's happy, and yeah, what happy can
6:20
Speaker 5: Yet we spend so much time fighting. But the difficulty is,
6:24
Speaker 5: even though each of these things matters, and matters a
6:27
Speaker 5: great deal and is worth engaging in some level of
6:31
Speaker 5: conflict over, it's how we have the conflict. And I
6:36
Speaker 5: don't know that anything is really worth well, A couple
6:38
Speaker 5: of things are.
6:39
Speaker 2: It's definitely worth highlighting. It is worth having a fight
6:44
Speaker 2: if your child's safety is at risk. There are sometimes
6:48
Speaker 2: where we as a parent simply need to say no,
6:52
Speaker 2: and I will stand my ground on this one. But
6:55
Speaker 2: there are very few, not nearly as many of those
6:58
Speaker 2: things as we often make out that there could be
7:02
Speaker 2: very very few. In fact, when I think about the
7:04
Speaker 2: last twenty three twenty four years of child wearing that
7:07
Speaker 2: you and I have been through, I can really only
7:09
Speaker 2: think of a couple of times in my life where
7:13
Speaker 2: I have stood there and said I'm your father, and
7:15
Speaker 2: I forbid it. It will not happen. I'm getting very
7:18
Speaker 2: serious about this. I've got my cranky face on. No,
7:21
Speaker 2: it just doesn't happen because we can usually work it
7:23
Speaker 2: out without having to have a full blown battle with
7:27
Speaker 2: our kids. So after the break, let's talk about how
7:30
Speaker 2: we avoid the conflict but still get to work through
7:33
Speaker 2: these tough things to keep our kids safe and help
7:36
Speaker 2: them to make healthy decisions for their lives. Neurodiverse children
7:44
Speaker 2: are beautiful, but they also bring unique challenges for parents
7:47
Speaker 2: and educators. The world does not always accommodate them easily
7:52
Speaker 2: or well. Communication, affection, behavior, learning, and almost every other
7:57
Speaker 2: aspect of life can be challenging for the child and
8:00
Speaker 2: their families. The webinar A Parent's Guide to Autism by
8:04
Speaker 2: leaving autism expert Michelle Garnett, can help parents and educators
8:08
Speaker 2: strengthen the bond with their autistic children for better outcomes
8:12
Speaker 2: for children and families. A Parent's Guide to Autism is
8:15
Speaker 2: available at Happy Families dot com dot au.
8:18
Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast with a time
8:21
Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now. And I'm sure
8:24
Speaker 4: that everyone is wanting to hear how we have a
8:28
Speaker 4: conversation that doesn't lead to conflict with their kids.
8:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So let's just put this out there typically,
8:35
Speaker 2: if your child wants to do something, whether they're two
8:37
Speaker 2: or twenty two, or let's say two or eighteen, because
8:40
Speaker 2: once they're past eighteen, you've got limited input really in
8:44
Speaker 2: what's going on.
8:45
Speaker 3: But as we're raising these kids, when.
8:47
Speaker 2: They want something that we're not willing to give them,
8:51
Speaker 2: they will usually have a dead set, fared income, full
8:55
Speaker 2: blown dummy spit and completely lose the plot before we
9:00
Speaker 2: get to have a conversation with them. We had this
9:02
Speaker 2: happened in the last few weeks in our home. We
9:04
Speaker 2: were dealing with the screen issue all over again. We
9:07
Speaker 2: said to one of the kids, we really need to
9:08
Speaker 2: sit down and have a conversation. We don't want to
9:10
Speaker 2: have a big battle of we don't have a big war.
9:12
Speaker 2: You're big enough to have this conversation, so let's just.
9:14
Speaker 3: Chat it through.
9:16
Speaker 2: And instead of chatting it through, she lost the plot.
9:18
Speaker 2: She slammed the door. She did, I'm not talking any
9:20
Speaker 2: of the other boys parents in the world. This is
9:22
Speaker 2: so unfair and just totally blew up. But later on
9:25
Speaker 2: that night we were able to sit down and while
9:27
Speaker 2: she was still not the most excited participant in the conversation,
9:31
Speaker 2: we got to have the conversation, and there.
9:34
Speaker 3: Was no conflict.
9:36
Speaker 2: As we walked through that conversation, she'd calm down, she
9:38
Speaker 2: knew that the conversation needed to be had, and we
9:40
Speaker 2: were able to work things through reasonably well. And well,
9:43
Speaker 2: we haven't had perfect compliance subsequent to the conversation, we've
9:46
Speaker 2: been able to see vast improvements.
9:49
Speaker 4: What was interesting in that specific context was just the
9:53
Speaker 4: realization that, in spite of all of the conversations we've had,
9:58
Speaker 4: she was still oblivious to what our concerns were.
10:02
Speaker 2: And that's such an important thing for us to highlight.
10:04
Speaker 2: If you're a parent and you think because I've had
10:06
Speaker 2: the conversation it's done, think again. It doesn't go in
10:11
Speaker 2: like honestly, You've got to have the conversation multiple times.
10:15
Speaker 2: There's just no such thing as a one off. It's
10:17
Speaker 2: an ongoing conversation. And I think that's why we as
10:20
Speaker 2: parents get so frustrated because it is so exhausting.
10:25
Speaker 3: It's such a.
10:28
Speaker 2: I don't even know what the word is that I'm
10:29
Speaker 2: looking for. It's just so tiring all the time. So
10:34
Speaker 2: I reckon, there's a couple of things that we can
10:35
Speaker 2: do to frame this well. The first is, you know,
10:38
Speaker 2: my ladder of life metaphor. I use it all the time, yep,
10:41
Speaker 2: And the kids roll their eyes when they hear it.
10:43
Speaker 2: But it's a good metaphor.
10:45
Speaker 4: Only because you're on top.
10:46
Speaker 3: Well.
10:47
Speaker 2: They will have the chance to do that in their
10:48
Speaker 2: own lives at some point. But here's the metaphor. I
10:52
Speaker 2: like to frame these conversations with the kids by saying,
10:55
Speaker 2: life is like climbing a ladder, and I've climbed, and
10:58
Speaker 2: then I say how many.
10:59
Speaker 3: Rungs of the ladder I've climbed?
11:01
Speaker 1: Two?
11:01
Speaker 2: Come on, I've climbed nearly fifty rungs, like forty six,
11:06
Speaker 2: forty seven rungs up this ladder of life. And the
11:09
Speaker 2: view from forty seven rungs up, I can see a
11:13
Speaker 2: long way into the distance. I can see a lot
11:14
Speaker 2: of stuff that's coming. And it's my job, as the
11:17
Speaker 2: person higher up the ladder to warn the people lower
11:19
Speaker 2: down the ladder that there's stuff coming.
11:21
Speaker 3: Now, here's the difference.
11:22
Speaker 2: When you're low on the ladder, like you're twelve, or
11:25
Speaker 2: you're fifteen, or you're three or four, you can't see
11:28
Speaker 2: very far at all, but but you think you can, yeah,
11:31
Speaker 2: because you can see further now than you've ever been
11:32
Speaker 2: able to see you above the trees.
11:34
Speaker 5: Right.
11:34
Speaker 4: You're above the tree line now and you can actually
11:36
Speaker 4: see and it looks like you can see the.
11:39
Speaker 3: World right right.
11:41
Speaker 2: The other thing about being further down the ladder, though,
11:43
Speaker 2: and I explained this to the kids, is you get
11:45
Speaker 2: to see all the detail. I can't see the detail
11:48
Speaker 2: from up here. I'm pretty high up. I can see
11:50
Speaker 2: stuff that's coming, but I'm not in the thick of it.
11:52
Speaker 2: I'm not down in the mutin and the leaves and
11:55
Speaker 2: in the trees and in the ground. I can't see
11:57
Speaker 2: and hear what the kids at score are actually saying.
12:00
Speaker 2: I'm not looking at the chats that you're involved in.
12:03
Speaker 2: If we're talking about screens and social media, for example,
12:06
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what's going on there. I just
12:08
Speaker 2: know because I'm so high up, I can see the
12:10
Speaker 2: trouble that's coming. And therefore, while you know more detail,
12:15
Speaker 2: I have more of this big picture of you. And
12:17
Speaker 2: as your parent, it's my job to warn you about
12:19
Speaker 2: what's coming and work out with you how we can
12:22
Speaker 2: keep you safe, because you're going to be stuck in
12:24
Speaker 2: the actual warfare.
12:26
Speaker 3: That happens lower down the ladder.
12:28
Speaker 2: Now that metaphor is a framing for a conversation, is
12:31
Speaker 2: actually a pretty powerful way to help kids become open
12:34
Speaker 2: to an alternative perspective, perspective that they're not real flash
12:38
Speaker 2: on hearing otherwise.
12:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:39
Speaker 4: So what happens though, if you use that metaphor and
12:43
Speaker 4: it doesn't work any magic. Your kid looks at you
12:46
Speaker 4: like you have no clue what you're talking about. They're
12:49
Speaker 4: not willing to meet you anywhere close to the middle
12:52
Speaker 4: to be able to have what you would consider an
12:55
Speaker 4: adult to adult conversation.
12:57
Speaker 2: Well, it's not an adult to adult conversation. And I
12:59
Speaker 2: would say welcome to parenthood, because we do talk to
13:02
Speaker 2: web blue in the face and the kids really do
13:04
Speaker 2: think that they know better. Well, I mean, I'm aststoundard
13:06
Speaker 2: at how much our eight year old really thinks that
13:08
Speaker 2: she knows compared to us. She knows everything, absolutely, But
13:13
Speaker 2: it's not about having an adult to adult conversation. This
13:17
Speaker 2: is a parent to child conversation. And I think the
13:20
Speaker 2: second thing that I would encourage with the framing, which
13:22
Speaker 2: kind of answers this question, is to let your child
13:25
Speaker 2: know this is a really big challenge for us, whether
13:28
Speaker 2: it's going to bed on time or whether it's eating
13:30
Speaker 2: good food, or whether it's choosing good friends or pick
13:34
Speaker 2: your issue, all the way through to the screens and
13:35
Speaker 2: the alcohol and the heavy stuff of the adolescent years,
13:38
Speaker 2: the relationship will always come first. I love you no
13:42
Speaker 2: matter what you choose. I love you no matter whether
13:45
Speaker 2: you follow my requests and my preferences or not.
13:52
Speaker 3: But what's going to.
13:53
Speaker 2: Make you happier and healthier, what's going to keep you safer,
13:57
Speaker 2: is for us to work together on this and find
13:58
Speaker 2: a solution that we can both.
13:59
Speaker 3: Feel good about. And just by making the relationship primary,
14:03
Speaker 3: it actually.
14:03
Speaker 2: Draws kids to us. It helps them to recognize that
14:06
Speaker 2: we're there now. This is not well, I'm going to
14:08
Speaker 2: be really soft on you and let you do whatever
14:09
Speaker 2: you want.
14:10
Speaker 3: It's not that it's.
14:11
Speaker 2: Letting them know I value the relationship. It's absolutely critical.
14:17
Speaker 2: There's a third thing that I want to highlight, and
14:19
Speaker 2: that is that it's not worth going to war over preferences.
14:25
Speaker 2: There are some principles, some values that it actually is.
14:29
Speaker 3: Worth going to war on.
14:31
Speaker 2: It really is worth having the battle, and that might
14:33
Speaker 2: be things to do with the genuine safety and health
14:36
Speaker 2: and protection of your child.
14:38
Speaker 3: If they've got preferences about.
14:39
Speaker 2: Music and you don't like the music, or if they've
14:42
Speaker 2: got preferences.
14:43
Speaker 3: Around what foods they do and don't like.
14:44
Speaker 2: I mean, we've all got preferences, and it's just that
14:48
Speaker 2: we're the grown ups, and so we get to we
14:51
Speaker 2: just get to think that our preferences are normal and
14:53
Speaker 2: everybody should toe the line with our preferences. But that's
14:56
Speaker 2: not how it is at all. So preferences versus principles.
14:59
Speaker 2: Preferences go easy. Principles, that's the stuff where you say, actually,
15:04
Speaker 2: as a matter of principle, this is just a big
15:07
Speaker 2: fat no. And again you won't have to do it
15:10
Speaker 2: very often.
15:11
Speaker 4: So I guess we've got a couple of take home
15:12
Speaker 4: messages from today's conversation. There are going to be a
15:16
Speaker 4: bajillion conversations that are worth having, right but hopefully if
15:20
Speaker 4: we take the right approach that they don't actually need
15:23
Speaker 4: to become fights. There might be some contention as you
15:28
Speaker 4: start to work things through, but I guess that number
15:31
Speaker 4: one take home would be that the relationship comes first
15:34
Speaker 4: no matter what, and letting your child know that you
15:37
Speaker 4: love them no matter what choices they make. But these
15:40
Speaker 4: things are important, and we want to try and work
15:42
Speaker 4: with them, not against them.
15:44
Speaker 2: And I want to add to that, I always frame
15:46
Speaker 2: with our kids that this is about being healthy and
15:50
Speaker 2: about being safe, and about being wise. I don't ever
15:54
Speaker 2: frame it in terms of what's right and wrong or
15:56
Speaker 2: what's good and bad, because.
15:58
Speaker 3: They really resist our morale.
16:01
Speaker 2: And you can argue about what's good and bad based
16:03
Speaker 2: on any number of other factors and judgments.
16:06
Speaker 4: I don't have your life experience, so you saying that
16:09
Speaker 4: social media is bad based on your knowledge and experience
16:13
Speaker 4: doesn't equate to what they're seeing.
16:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, their experiences.
16:16
Speaker 2: No, it's not bad, and everyone's on it and this
16:18
Speaker 2: is my life. Whereas if we talk about safety and
16:20
Speaker 2: being healthy and making wise choices, there's no moral contaminant
16:25
Speaker 2: in there, and it's much harder to argue against that.
16:28
Speaker 2: It's just better footing. That doesn't mean that as a
16:30
Speaker 2: parent you don't believe that there's good and bad, right
16:32
Speaker 2: and wrong. It just means that the conversations go smoother
16:36
Speaker 2: when we remove the moral element and focus instead on
16:39
Speaker 2: what's healthy, what's safe, and what's wise.
16:44
Speaker 4: And I think lastly, the latter metaphor that you use
16:47
Speaker 4: is really powerful to show perspective. And you know, if
16:51
Speaker 4: you wanted to take it to the extreme, go and
16:53
Speaker 4: climb a ladder together. Yeah, ask them what they see
16:56
Speaker 4: from their rung three rungs up and your rung ten
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Speaker 4: rung up? What can they see and what's the difference.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you don't even need a ladder.
17:04
Speaker 2: You can stand in the upstairs window versus the downstairs
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Speaker 2: window and just look at the different perspective, or put
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Speaker 2: someone on the roof, like, massive, massive difference is there.
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Speaker 2: I just want to highlight as well though. Expect contention,
17:17
Speaker 2: expect hardship, Expect some sort of a challenge because the
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Speaker 2: kids do get annoyed. They want their perspectives to be
17:22
Speaker 2: heard and they want their own way. So hopefully this
17:25
Speaker 2: has been a helpful conversation about how you can navigate
17:27
Speaker 2: those challenges. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin
17:30
Speaker 2: Ruland for Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce as our executive producer.
17:34
Speaker 2: If you'd like more info about making your family happy,
17:36
Speaker 2: please join us at Happy families dot com. Do AU