Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / "It Feels Good Keeping People Safe": Addressing Elevator Hoistway Safety Issues | Darrin Porch

Transcript

"It Feels Good Keeping People Safe": Addressing Elevator Hoistway Safety Issues | Darrin Porch · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's great about what I'm doing now is building a really good, sustainable, durable business, but it's based around safety.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's it's it's a pretty good feeling to know you're making people safer.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it's hard to measure people not getting hurt or people not dying on a job site, but but I know over time that we're gonna have that impact as our volume and our scale goes up, that that we're doing something to make people safer and and to be able to build a business around that is is really rewarding.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry, to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before, to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Darren Fork, founder and CEO of Safe Rise LLC.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Darren founded Safe Rides as a solution to safely address elevator installation issues throughout the U.S.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: and particularly around houseway safety.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Darren has worked in the elevator and construction industry for over 20 years, including significant time with Otis and Chindler.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's excited to help make the industry he loves even safer.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Darren, welcome to the show.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Great to be here, Matt.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm excited.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to talk again.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I remember talking to you several years ago, and and uh I was impressed with uh with your new venture.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and so and we'll get to that in just a second, but I'm just curious, how did you how did you get into the elevator industry in the first place?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, like a lot of people, it it it wasn't my childhood dream um to get into that.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Did you even know it existed as a child?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I mean, it's one of those things that's always there, right?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: But no one thinks about you know making a career out of that if if it's not part of your family history.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: But no, I worked in the construction field for about a decade out of college, and um I worked with a woman um who was great.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: I got to know, and her husband happened to be the general manager for Otis in Kansas City, where I'm from.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And she knew I was thinking about leaving, and she thought I would be a great fit for a construction sales rep job that her husband was looking to fill.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: So she connected us, and a couple days later, I was I started off at Otis and uh yeah, spent almost six years there, and then and then another six years at Schindler.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: All in Kansas City, or have you moved around the country a few times?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Moved a bit, uh based in Kansas City a lot, um, but also went down to the southeast for a couple of years um to manage an operation down there and then uh took an area role, which allowed me to move back to Kansas City, which is where I'm from.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, and then just uh spent every week traveling out of there.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, what at what point did you say, hey, you know, this elevator stuff's pretty cool?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, did you did you think about leaving or did you uh you know see the I don't know, fascinating opportunity?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: I love the elevator business.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um I miss it a lot the day to day of being in from those companies because of the people.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of great friends, a lot of great leaders that I worked for.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um learned a lot.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: And um the companies always treated me well.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was it was really just looking for as you as you climb and climb and climb, which I was on that path in my own head, that that that's kind of how I'm built.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: I was looking for the next thing.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: You kind of get to a point where you realize maybe that next thing's not really gonna be as satisfying.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then you also hit a wall, everyone hits a wall where where um your skill sets and and the opportunities narrow, and maybe they're not the best fit, right?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: So as you climb, the opportunities get smaller, and and being in a position to to grab what you want usually comes with some pretty big sacrifices.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: So either relocating to somewhere tough.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I was at Schindler.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you wanted to go to corporate, you're up in New Jersey.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm from Kansas City.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's no way they could pay me enough to go to New Jersey to make up for my cost of living in Kansas City.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, and when you have a bunch of kids and all that, so it gets a little challenging, I think.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the smartest guys I know were the guys that sold new equipment and just stayed in it in a big market and and made more money than everyone else in the country.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: But I also just I I I personally I get kind of bored with with the same thing over and over.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: So for me it was it was keeping moving and finding new challenges.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: And um, but no, I had a great time.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: I have left on good terms with with both the companies I left.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it was for kind of unique reasons both times.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: So um I love the industry and still still tied into it with a lot of friends and and um and keep my keep my ear to it because it it's a fascinating industry that's always changing.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I can't figure out what they're doing, but um it's always interesting to watch.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's more interesting from the sidelines than being in the heart of it sometimes.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's funny.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious what what is it that that makes you know, I just I don't I don't hear other people, you know, say that, oh, I love the automotive industry, or you know, I don't know.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I hear the passion in your voice.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what is it about the elevator industry that makes you love it so much?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's a mix of people.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um you may be in the automotive industry, but you've got a factory that's set aside, and then you have a different sort of selling chain.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think what's interesting about the elevator industry is it's very integrated with its field personnel and its office people.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: So while you might have white-collar jobs and blue-collar jobs, you really interact and they cross over more in our business.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you see a lot of guys come in the field into the office, vice versa.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think that mix of backgrounds, I think that mix of perspectives um makes it really interesting from a from a people standpoint.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you get really a diverse amount of background.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I enjoy that because um the most enjoyable people I I I've dealt with, say the most enjoyable, the most interesting have been people that completely different backgrounds came from the field, and and I've grown a lot from being around them because you you get to you get to learn what they know without having to do all of the hard work out there in the field that they've done.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I think that mix of people is somewhat unique compared to a lot of other industries, and and and I enjoy that.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you see a bit, not that it's perfect, but you see more of a meritocracy to where you have guys come from the field that that they know a college degree.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, 20 years experience doing doing what we do.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um much more valuable than any any 22-year-old with a college degree, right?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I think to see guys that that don't have maybe that traditional white-collar background can come up and still get to the highest levels of companies is is um something that is really good as well.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, no, I love that.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's to me, it's inspiring.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and in a lot of ways, it's um yeah, it's kind of the American dream.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I sometimes I hear on you know the news or the media, whatever, that that the American dream is to buy a house.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, no, no, that's not why people come to America, it's to have your own thing or to do your own thing, is have the freedom to you know get out there and create something.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and it seems that the elevator industry lends to that, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you dig in, if you learn you there's all kinds of opportunities to to pursue.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, there is.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, if you're if you're coming on the field side, I mean the union come from union companies, they're they're unbelievable.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: The benefits and everything you get and the pay, right?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's a phenomenal quality of life that they get right um for doing a very dangerous and and technical job.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: So they deserve it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it is a great entryway for for a young person to go in to build a career, knowing that they have those opportunities if they want to go to school or if they want to get into the office setting and do some other stuff.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you're good at what you do in the elevator business, you will always have a job.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, doesn't mean you won't get that, you know, go through layoffs or downsizing or whatever, but you can always go find another job if you're good at what you do.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and it's it's a fairly stable industry because of the service base, and because you have dictated things by by the government, sure.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's only so much variability, I think, in the in the um in the industry because of that.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Construction ebbs and flows, service and mod, um, you know, is something that always has to be there.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it does give you some stability that that certain other industries don't have because of that.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and like you say, if you're good at what you do, I mean, it's hard to replace a good troubleshooter.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, somebody that knows how to to fix something that's down.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's just it's only getting harder, too.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always hearing from companies though, please bring me a troubleshooter.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, Yeah, I mean, these the old timers um that are all retiring that that grew up with old technology, new technology.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, there's it's hard to replace that brain power.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I work with some just brilliant individuals that troubleshooting their head from a phone call, right?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: On a hey, our controller from 1968 that's XYZ, and this is going on, and he'll just sit there and think for a minute and give them three things to check.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: It blew my mind.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: So there's there's there, it's it's hard to replace that.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: And with the way we grew up, even my and I'm not young by any means, but even my generation, it was it was computers and it was microprocessors and things like that.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, but the amount of old equipment that's still out there still astounds me.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the amount of switch gear and different things.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a um it's interesting.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And like you say, a lot of those folks are retiring, and you know, you got 40-50 years of of experience.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: You you can't just hire somebody you know off the street or out of college or or even you know to to just replace that.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh definitely a challenge.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yep.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you recently started SafeRise and uh tell me a little bit about how you got into that.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I uh I had been kicking around an idea of starting a company and trying to figure out what I wanted to do.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um I knew I did not want to start an elevator company or get into uh you know that directly in that field.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um because I was more of a construct I really my passion's the construction side of the business.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, sure.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: But most independents are sorry, what what led you to to get out of the traditional uh the contractor side and you know kind of leave uh the the traditional side of the business?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: On uh for the elevator or for general contracting?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, elevators, I guess, specifically.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when you when you you know jumped out and said, okay, I'm gonna do something different, what was the kind of the motivator?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: You were talking about building your own business and yeah, it was it was really finally got to the point where where I felt like opportunities were narrowing, um, and also started to have frustrations with things, which when you work for a big company, you know those are gonna come.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um you have ideas in your head, you think you can get up and keep climbing, and you can be more impactful on strategy and solving problems, and the you realize you get higher and higher, and you still don't have control over really impacting a lot of change.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that got a little frustrating when you present ideas that everyone agrees with, but they still won't do because you know we have to well there, and there's reasons for it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just have people doing different things across a big organization, but these were structural problems that that identified, and and they sent me a way to study, and I came back with solutions that they agreed upon, but still wouldn't implement, you know, would save the company money, and I I couldn't wrap my head around it anymore.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: I I was just like, this is a bit crazy.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, I got to the point where you feel like you have enough knowledge, you feel like you have an understanding, you feel like you're ready to go off and do something.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: So um I kicked this around for for a couple of years and looked at different potential businesses, and I kept coming back to just, you know, what are what's a problem out there that that everyone complains about that that no one's really addressing.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's kind of how it led to my diving in, deep diving into to what I get into and working and and studying it and and and you know, eventually building a business model and a business plan around it.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, and then eventually just taking the leap after you know a year of of just looking into all that all that research and work and then and then decided to go forward.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's amazing.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean it's it's uh certainly a leap to to jump out and and do your own thing.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it is in your 40s with three kids, yes.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: How so how long have you been running uh safe rise?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: So we um it'll be two years in June.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: So we just started really selling about a year ago.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, interesting.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um kind of building it through the beginnings of COVID, too, or at least you at least your research.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: It was, yeah, absolutely.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: No, it was, and and coming out of it.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: So um yeah, but yeah, so a lot of work up front and then a lot of discussions with a lot of people, and surrounding myself with some some really good uh people that I could rely on to bounce ideas off of, get input on to make sure um I was I was really minimizing my downside and minimizing my risk if I was to do this and and really making sure that that I was challenged on all my um assumptions and in the plan as a whole to to make sure you know there's no guarantee, but but minimize that risk as much as possible or kind of maximize chance for success um by by telling people to to find out why this isn't gonna work, right?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so for those uh listeners that aren't even familiar with with safe rides, tell them tell us what it is, just you know what uh what problem you're solving, and um sure.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: So in the construction business and the installation business, the thing that has to be done before anyone will step on site is is these hoistway openings all need to be barricaded to OSHA standards.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: So traditionally, the elevator companies uh suits will go out of a pre-start checklist, they will present them with with how they want these done.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, depending on the company, depending on the superintendent, they vary across the country.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but basically, you are putting uh a you know, a handrail, a mid rail, a toe kick, and then you're dropping like pearl weave netting over it to keep debris from going into the hoist way, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: The idea is to protect people from falling, sure.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, and then number two to keep debris from from going in or any projectiles coming down the hoistway that could injure an installer.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: So if you can imagine, even if you're not in the business, I I show people what's out there and they shake their heads that they that's even allowed.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the problem is it's a construction site.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: People move stuff, they get moved, um, the netting gets ripped, um, moved out of the way.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're not constantly inspecting it and staying on top of it, you can have real risk on your job site, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the netting itself is probably not super secure, right?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: If if if something got tossed or thrown, I mean it could, I assume, just fly through and it can it can, um, for sure.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if it is totally secured and you're doing it, it would take something pretty strong to go through it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: But the the number of times that I've been on a job site where it is secured properly and everything's in place, well, it's pretty rare.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I'm talking very, very rare.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: So typically it's just hanging down loose a lot.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and you've got how many?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, and then it's divided in the middle, yeah, like a like a curtain.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, what if something shoots through the middle of it?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not it's not gonna hold a lot.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you've got you know, if if you got a multi-story building and you've you know got stops on every floor and you got banks of elevators, you're gonna have multiple opportunities for for something to be insecure, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: It might be good here and here, and but not here and here, or right.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: So the key when you look at that problem is number one, what are the things that the elevator companies want, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: And these are these are it's two things.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: One, it's safety, obviously.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, the other guy's safe.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: But the other thing that goes in tandem with that is efficiency of the installation, right?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to have a product that is not going to impede.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, best case, it helps efficiency because they are squeezed tight on hours that they have to install these things.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: It is a very competitive business.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so they don't have a ton of extra time to do things, they want it simplified, they want to show up, they want consistency, and then they want to keep their guys safe.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: So there's ways um guys are going to work in the hoist way, they need to tie off before they get themselves in a fall hazard.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of these two-by situations don't really allow for it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: Guys are pulling stuff away from the wall and then kind of leaning in and tying off.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, we designed a we designed a steel system, flapses down.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, cool.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: That that has a four-foot-wide door on it that's locked.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: So the elevator guys have a key, the general contractor has a key, keeps everybody else out of the hoist way.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: People love to look in hoistways, they like to do other things in hoistways too.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Chuckling because because I do too, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want to look off the edge and see what's happening.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the problem is guys hold the flashlight and they drop something, and these things happen.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then they also pull it aside to look in, and then they get then they get distracted and they forgot to put the put it back in place, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: So these things aren't secured in, you can move them.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've seen guys take two by rails off to go use as a sawhorse to help cut other stuff.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's pretty interesting.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: So um, so solving those two addressing those two things for the elevator company is number one.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um the other thing from the business standpoint is the elevator companies don't want to do this, they don't want responsibility for it because number one, they need to be up prior to them coming to the job anyway.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: So they're like general contractors should own this, they need to have it up as the building goes up.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: I agree 100%.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, a lot of times, elevator has to be responsible for maintaining it when they get on site.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but aside from that, it's it's it's back on the GC.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: So my sale um is creating the steel system that is rentable, okay.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, that I can rent to general contractors directly, or certain general contractors have yards or they have internal rental companies for their companies.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: So they they may want to purchase stock, which is which we do as well.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but to settle the general contractors a little different sale, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: So their pain points are we're we're building these things probably twice on a job.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: They throw up a barricade when concrete guys are done pouring, and then they have to rebuild the the barricade to elevator specs before they come on site.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: The good ones are are are working ahead.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And only doing it once, but um, you know, a lot of guys um aren't.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you're looking at double material, double time, and then all that waste because this stuff gets thrown away.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Once it's done, you're not going to use it again, right?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: But the ongoing problem is number one, it's a pain point between elevator guys and general contractors have have notorious um relationship issues.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, sure.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say that.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: So this is just one more pain point.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if we can eliminate that pain point at the start of a job to where there's a consistent solution everyone accepts and everyone is prepared for, right?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, not only is it safer to have a consistent solution on a job, but it's one less thing to coordinate and and have to deal with.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we take that off the table.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: But for superintendents, really it is um it's the ease of putting something in that they know will will be accepted.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: And two, it eliminates their inspection and maintenance that they're having to do consistently on these jobs.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it goes to the elevator guys too.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_03: If they're on a job and it's 12 stories, they show up in the morning, they have to go inspect each one of these openings because they don't know if all this stuff's in place, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: They want to be safe, and so they go and check it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's a lot of time to go.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: 12 stories.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but if they know there's something that is secured in place, can't just be moved, um, is locked and secured, then their risks tremendously go down.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Their need to inspect stuff constantly um goes goes significantly down.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: So um we take away that headache and and and then the rebuilding of damage uh of damage as well during construction goes away for the superintendents on the contractor side.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: So when when whenever I'm challenged by a project executive or or a senior PM and they ask me about it, all I do is ask them to get their lead superintendent in the room.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I just sit back and let them talk about what a pain it is for them.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the traditional methods.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: So for us, they're our best salespeople because they're the ones who manage it every day.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: They typically don't complain about it up the chain.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: So some guys don't realize what a problem it is.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then the other thing that costs kind of gets buried in general conditions, right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: So for them to understand actually what they're spending and the time they spend is is part of the educational process when I'm talking with these contractors to really have them back into numbers to figure out what their true costs are for this work already, and then and then talking to them about our offering and how we're we're we're competitive with those numbers.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and you're gonna raise um the safety on your job.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's got all the secondary benefits, right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: So no waste, all the waste goes away, all of that.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but it also is is um is really setting.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I was in New York City this past week with with a big developer there, and he really liked it.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And what he liked is Darren, this sends a message to the guys on the job side.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is an engineered safety solution.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone sees it, everyone gets it.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: No one else.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Instantly, right?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to think very hard about it.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's not technology, all the tech that's great for safety, it's all awesome.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but a lot of times you don't see it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a kind of a touch and feel thing.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Anyone walks on the shop site sets it, it's set sends a message of safety.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and that's another kind of one of the secondary benefits that that um is really there.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: So the response has been been great.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but yeah, that's what that's what we're doing.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: So is secure off those hoistways, and then we're we're partnering up, we're getting into other products now, perimeter edge protection around the outside of the buildings, uh, debris netting um that extends off high-rise buildings for for falling material as well.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then we're working on we're working on to be to be announced and prototypes on some other products, uh, specifically for elevator shafts as well to address um one of the other big problems out there.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I'll I'll save that for another day.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: For next time, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So what what would you say is your your overall mission?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you want to accomplish and solve, if you will?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think I mean what's great about what I'm doing now is building a really good, sustainable, durable business, but it's based around safety.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's it's it's a pretty good feeling to know you're making people safer.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it's hard to measure people not getting hurt or people not dying on a job site, right?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: But but I know over time that we're gonna have that impact as our volume and our scale goes up, that that we're doing something to make people safer and and to be able to build a business around that is is really rewarding, um, and and is a lot of fun as well.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I still get to interact with my elevator guys, I get to interact with general contractors.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um people are shocked that I like doing that.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: Most people can't stand that, but I uh I enjoy it.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and um yeah, it's a lot of fun.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: So really building a durable business, um, gonna start, you know, being able to hire more people and and do some things in the next year.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, it's building a company with with the best people and really giving them the ability to um do really well.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I've always had an idea of a type of company I I want to be in, um, just based on my own history of of different things, um, is really being able to have um create not only pay and all that, but benefits and being able to really take care of people and put them at the forefront of what we're doing and um and really build a a really enjoyable place to work where you know my goal is to hire experienced people that know the business well, that can operate really independently.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because we're gonna be scattered about the country.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're already yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: So um having the right people and and people I enjoy being with, people that can can make us better as we continue to to grow and and expand in what we're doing and our offerings, um, yeah, is is really exciting.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that's um, you know, over the next few years, we're looking to uh to be able to get there and and really have put together a great team.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it it sounds like you're really you know raising the bar when it comes to safety, but just just raising the bar for you know the um the elevator industry, the construction industry, just to say, hey, we're we're really bringing in a higher standard when it comes to securing the hoistways um than we've seen, at least in the US.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'd said that that in Europe this is this is common, but in the US it just doesn't exist yet.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, down in the UK and Australia, you'll see their code requires locked access into elevator hoistways during construction.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: So um where our code is just really required.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's pretty minimal what's required.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um so raising that level um of safety um proactively with with contractors and job sites, um, yeah, is a good thing.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's it's it's open.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're meeting, you know, I've focused on more mid-rise and high rise work because we're we're manufacturing overseas, bringing in um, so we're looking at at kind of large volume type work right now.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: That'll change over time as we build up stock and we'll be able to service the the low rise market as well.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: But right now we focus on that.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so we're working with and talking with a lot of the major general contractors uh nationwide.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um that's who we're we're partnering up with now.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we got a lot of different, very large contractors um who we're contracted with or we're in talks with right now um to get you know initial jobs out there, continue to get feedback, talk to them about how we can make the product better, um, and and and really get their buy-in um so we can solve.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the goal is to solve problems, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're making people's lives easier, safer, but you're you're making it easier.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone wants things to make their lives easier, right?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and on a job site, they want that as well.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: They got a million different boxes to check.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: And if you can just take one of those things away on on some tasks that they have to do, um, there's value to that, and and they will they will listen to you and they will they will most of them will want to give it a shot for sure.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then once we get it out there, the feedback has been from the field has been phenomenal.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you know, feel pretty confident.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: More we get it out there, it's just it's starting to snowball a bit already.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we just see that continuing.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's awesome.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, something you can you can set it and forget it, right?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go back and visit it and and oh, this one tore.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this somebody stole our board for their sawhorse.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you in a half a day.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100%.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's easy.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: We we're we're a rental company at at heart, and we sell as well.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: But we'll we'll we deliver to the sites.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: We go out and we do training day one to the general contractor.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of them are self-perform, or they'll have their carpentry company or their concrete company do the installation.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: We'll go out and do a training with them.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's simple.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's very simple to put together.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, not many parts and pieces standing up and securing it.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, some expansion bolts into the slab, and then um we can we can span across very large rough openings on shaft wall fronts, or um just secure um around a rough opening.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: But um so we go through training with them, make sure we answer all the questions, and then really that's it.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: So um then I just stay in touch with them, stop by the job every few months.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: But for the most part, they're gonna have it on site for you know eight to 16 months.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then we they get done.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: We they they put them back in their containers, and then we come pick them up, take them back and re-inspect them and recertify, and then rent them back out.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: So um really a straightforward, easy uh process.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's just uh getting people educated and getting it out there as a as a new solution, right?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean it sounds like you're creating the demand uh for something that that wasn't there, but to your point, you know, there's been a lot of pain around it.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, hey, let's let's you know create the demand just by creating the product and there it is.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yeah, that's it.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool, very cool.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, we're getting close to our our time, uh, unfortunately.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's a pleasure talking to you, but um, since I I like to on this uh particular podcast, you know, focus on elevator careers, uh I'm fascinated by the your career and how you've used that to you know actually move some different directions and really kind of accomplish amazing things.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: What what's something you would tell our um our listeners as far as you know advice or something you've learned along the way as you've built your career?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's a lot you learn, you don't realize it till later sometimes.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I wish I would have thought of this earlier, right?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: So um for me, it's really keep your eyes open at opportunities and and take a look at that, what that means.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: We we get pretty tunnel visioned in what we do a lot of times.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: I know I did, and you're working hard and you're just pounding, grinding.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but try to reflect on what's going on around, look at different opportunities.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I mean, this need like I remember talking about this like a year into my career.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why does this why do they do this?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because I was having to negotiate it on every contract, like, who's gonna do this?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, pay in the butt.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So well, and even when they were doing it, it was it was the two by fours and a little bit of netting, right?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like, why isn't someone doing something different with it?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: Someone's gonna build a company in this one day, and I'm like, you know, um, but I also at that point wasn't ready to do what I'm doing, so and that's okay too.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you may want to think about how you can start working towards that if that's a goal you have.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Not everyone wants to go start a company, not everyone shouldn't, you know, either.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's it's a um it's not for the faint of heart.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta be a little bit crazy, I think, um, and have a tolerance for certain things, um, and and willing to do that and then and having a partner that that will go along with that ride as well.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: But look at the things, and and a lot of us get in the industry and say, Oh, I'm in the elevator industry, you know, what could I do?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: I want to start a company.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'll start an elevator company.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's that's an option.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of guys do it.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it was not anything I had any desire to do because it's really hard.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't come from the field, I wouldn't feel comfortable starting something where technically I couldn't go out and do it either, even if I had a partner.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I'm a construction guy, and most of that stuff is you build it through the service business.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: So look at other things.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's there's an old saying, I can't remember who who said it, but um, you know, during the gold rush, you had all these people going out, right, to to paying for gold and go after gold, and a few guys hit it.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but one of the wealthiest guys is the guy who sold all the pickaxes to them.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, you look at how you can support industries, right?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: And how and there's a lot of opportunity.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is a weird little niche, and finding those weird little niches where there's opportunity, you can build a whole business around.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely as the base of your business, and then you can expand off of that, which is what I'm which I'm working towards right now.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, look, keep your eyes open.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, look at what what isn't being addressed, where are pain points?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: What's a problem that could potentially be solved?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're seeing a lot of technology companies, even in the elevator field, a lot of guys who've left, women as well, that have gone out and started some great technology companies that are helping.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's fun to see.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but this was for me, this was just low-hanging fruit uh on a mechanical side of safety that wasn't it's not super complex, it's an obvious problem, right?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: So um getting a product that works, and then you know, there's a lot of great ideas if you want to start your own thing, you just have to get action going towards it, right?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's no shortage of good ideas, there's no shortages of companies that can be started, there's no shortages of things you can do, but yeah, to do it.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I had to learn how to manufacture overseas, how to import, what that meant, all of the you know, tariffs and managing that and figuring out cost structures, and then getting into the rental business wasn't a business I'd ever worked in.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so your so your financial plans are completely different than if you're selling a product.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you're capital intensive up front, and then the back end years down the road is where you make all your money because you pay off your equipment that continue to rent it, right?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: So um key was getting good people, and and the key with anything is is find a group of people, whether it's mentors, whether it's uh a boss, whether it's other coworkers, whether it's family that have skill sets and expertise that maybe you don't have.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so first thing I did was put together a list of of about five or six people that I said, here's a group of people they're really smart and my team at specific things.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Not that they're gonna work for me, but these are people I can reach out to who are gonna help me and and help challenge me and find gaps that maybe I'm not seeing um and try to do that before I take on all the debts to to get something going or before I quit a job.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um so really just surround yourself with good people when you want to do something.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's true with everything.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's true with just changing jobs, just life, yeah, leaving industry.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's no shortage.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone knows if you're good in the elevator industry, your options are huge.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: The you know, the HVAC companies, the fire and security companies, the other the other um industrial construction type companies are gonna come after you eventually.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: So um, but there is once you become an expert in your field and you're in the elevator business a while and you become an expert in it, um it's a great skill set.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: You'll you know if you're good at it, you you can always find a job, absolutely, um, which is great, and and they're well-paying jobs.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um and but but there are a lot of opportunities.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: So if you want to do it, you just need to think about it, find find the needs, find out where their pain points, and then see if you can build a business around it and start start working on it on the side and just putting together, researching it, and and putting it all together, and and um there's nothing um really back, I guess.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing holding you back if you want to do it.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's ways to figure out the money, there's ways to figure out all sorts of things to do it.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you just have to want to do it.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that is that's the most important thing for anyone wanting to start a company.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: You better want to do it because you're gonna be the one.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: You don't just leave it at at work when you come home.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so true.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's with you all the time, uh, more than you want at times.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: But uh but for me, I've never been happier.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's been a blast.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I enjoyed doing it every day because I have a passion for it and I have control over what we do.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: And and what's funny is when you start a company and you have a plan, you think you know how things are gonna go.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's the one thing you you you're gonna learn as you don't.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: The market's going to direct you, and you just the but the good thing is you're you're you're agile when it's just you, you know, you can make changes.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: That company that was gonna rent.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm just renting.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: And big, big general contractors like, we like it, we want to buy it, we want to stock it.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, I'm just rent.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, we want to buy it.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, do the numbers.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, you can buy it.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the price, and they're like, Yeah, we'll buy it.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Oh, that's great, that'll help finance my company.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so so there's always just be ready for that.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's the fun part.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: It you know, I said earlier, I I don't like getting bored with things.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm never while I'm just selling this or renting this gate system, um, barricade system.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: It is the business itself is is pretty dynamic for just what I'm doing.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: That absolutely always new challenges and changes, and how do we scale up?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Things are going good, now how we go to next levels and all that.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a lot of fun.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: And um and yeah, I'm I'm loving it.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it sounds sounds very rewarding.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you say, you're able to to create your own thing.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh so thank you for for being on today and just sharing your your new venture and your a little bit about your career, and uh wish you the best as you continue to to build your business.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Matt.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: Same for you.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Congrats on on the podcast, and I wish you all the best as well.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate it.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe, and until next time, stay safe.