Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / FRIDAY NIGHT SPECIAL: Jussie Smollet Hate Crime Hoax - True Story Instead?

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FRIDAY NIGHT SPECIAL: Jussie Smollet Hate Crime Hoax - True Story Instead? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I cannot believe it. Netflix
0:11
Speaker 1: at it again. In the last days, we learned about
0:14
Speaker 1: a so called Netflix special documentary okay, that tasted bad,
0:22
Speaker 1: going down documentary with quote new evidence that Jesse Smolett's
0:29
Speaker 1: hate crime hoax quote might just be a true story. Okay,
0:39
Speaker 1: somebody comes, scrape me off the floor. What Okay, we've
0:44
Speaker 1: heard about this, We've investigated this, we have the two
0:48
Speaker 1: guys that pulled the hoax with checks written to them.
0:53
Speaker 1: We've got all the lies, we've got all the circumstantial evidence.
0:57
Speaker 1: And now Netflix announces quote documentary. You know, I think
1:04
Speaker 1: it should be called a mockumentary about Jesse Smollette and
1:08
Speaker 1: his hate crime hopes. Okay, wait for it. What's the
1:13
Speaker 1: title quote The truth about Jesse Smollette question mark end quote.
1:20
Speaker 1: I'm gonna vomit. No, I've got to keep reporting. According
1:24
Speaker 1: to Netflix, they have quote new evidence about the case,
1:31
Speaker 1: and we'll tell the quote shocking true story of an
1:35
Speaker 1: allegedly fake story that some now say might just be
1:41
Speaker 1: a true story. Okay, that's a loaded ad. I need
1:47
Speaker 1: to see, Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:50
Speaker 1: being with us. Let's just off the top say technical
1:54
Speaker 1: legal term, that's bs. Jesse Smollette pull off a hoax,
2:03
Speaker 1: a hoax that engendered so much hatred, so many bad feelings,
2:10
Speaker 1: wrongdoing from within the prosecutor's office and more. If you'll recall, Smolett,
2:18
Speaker 1: famous for the storing role of Jamal Lyon on Fox's
2:23
Speaker 1: drama Empire. He then reported himself as a hate crime victim,
2:33
Speaker 1: one because he is black and two because he is gay.
2:38
Speaker 1: And he did the unthinkable. He wrapped a rope around
2:44
Speaker 1: his neck to suggest he was threatened with being lynched,
2:50
Speaker 1: lynched an unknown chemical substance he said was poured on him. Hello,
2:57
Speaker 1: he did it himself.
2:59
Speaker 2: Now.
2:59
Speaker 1: At first, the so called hate crime was met with
3:03
Speaker 1: incredible support for Smollette, all sorts of famous stars like
3:08
Speaker 1: Bayola Davis, Sean de Rhime's political figures like VP Harris
3:15
Speaker 1: Corey Booker described it as an attempted modern day lynching.
3:22
Speaker 1: That is, until, of course, the evidence came out. What
3:28
Speaker 1: do we know about what really happened that night when
3:32
Speaker 1: Jesse Smollette staged a hate crime on himself and what
3:37
Speaker 1: was the motive to make more money per episode on
3:42
Speaker 1: Empire by conjuring up pr Press media on himself. Now,
3:53
Speaker 1: this is how I recall it all went down.
3:56
Speaker 3: You know, it's two o'clock in the morning, You're going
3:58
Speaker 3: to subway.
4:00
Speaker 2: And so there is open twenty four hours. Like people
4:02
Speaker 2: kill me when they say things like that, because it's like,
4:04
Speaker 2: subway is open twenty four hours for a reason, so
4:07
Speaker 2: that when you're hungry at night and you ain't got
4:09
Speaker 2: no food, you go to subway. The camera facing north.
4:13
Speaker 2: How is that my issue? It feels like if I
4:17
Speaker 2: had said it was a Muslim or a Mexican or
4:23
Speaker 2: someone black, I feel like the doubters would have supported
4:27
Speaker 2: me a lot much more, a lot more. And that
4:30
Speaker 2: says a lot about the place that we are in
4:33
Speaker 2: our country right now, the fact that we have these
4:35
Speaker 2: fear mongols, these people that are trying to separate us,
4:42
Speaker 2: and it's just not okay. It's just not okay. And
4:48
Speaker 2: for all of the people. The next time that you
4:51
Speaker 2: see someone report something, maybe well after the fact that
4:56
Speaker 2: it happened, and you say to them, well, why are
5:00
Speaker 2: you waiting till now? Just remember that mine was reported
5:04
Speaker 2: right away and look what has happened.
5:07
Speaker 1: You are hearing TV star Jesse Smillette talking to superstar
5:12
Speaker 1: Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who
5:17
Speaker 1: have doubted his story that he was attacked by I
5:22
Speaker 1: believe it started as two white males. It changed at
5:26
Speaker 1: some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is how
5:30
Speaker 1: the story started. That also has changed at two am
5:34
Speaker 1: in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.
5:38
Speaker 1: According to Jesse Smollette, everyone knows him, big star on Empire.
5:43
Speaker 1: He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put
5:47
Speaker 1: a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called
5:51
Speaker 1: his manager and not nine one one. When he walked
5:56
Speaker 1: back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived.
6:00
Speaker 1: They found him sitting there and roughed up and the
6:05
Speaker 1: rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If
6:11
Speaker 1: this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not
6:13
Speaker 1: the truth. When he talks about his detractors dividing people,
6:20
Speaker 1: is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this
6:25
Speaker 1: is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every
6:30
Speaker 1: single one of them. This is about a potential hoax
6:36
Speaker 1: on police or a horrible hate crime with me an
6:41
Speaker 1: all star panel forensics expert, and boy do we need
6:43
Speaker 1: her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction, renowned
6:48
Speaker 1: criminal attorney DARYLD. Cohen, former prosecutor, joining me from Atlanta,
6:53
Speaker 1: joining joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall, and
6:58
Speaker 1: joining me right now, Crime on line dot COM's Ellenclaurin E. K.
7:03
Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning.
7:06
Speaker 4: Now.
7:06
Speaker 1: Typically, when I'm hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything,
7:11
Speaker 1: usually the wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it,
7:14
Speaker 1: and go back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't
7:16
Speaker 1: feel like getting up and even going to the fridge
7:19
Speaker 1: because I'm exhausted. But let's just start with a two
7:22
Speaker 1: am subway sandwich call.
7:24
Speaker 5: Go.
7:25
Speaker 6: Well, it does appear that Jossy Smollett had arrived to
7:30
Speaker 6: the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this
7:33
Speaker 6: was a matter of him waking up in the middle
7:35
Speaker 6: of that and going out to the freezing cold in
7:37
Speaker 6: the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and
7:39
Speaker 6: he's he tells police that he's on his way home
7:42
Speaker 6: with his subway sandwich.
7:44
Speaker 1: Wa wa wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
7:47
Speaker 1: this is in Chicago, correct.
7:49
Speaker 7: That's right?
7:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how cold is it it?
7:53
Speaker 6: We were pretty sure it was blow freezing temperatures. This
7:56
Speaker 6: this was during a very very very cold spell in Chicago.
7:59
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact Dr Bethney. He must have
8:02
Speaker 1: been very hungry, very hungry.
8:04
Speaker 8: Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in
8:09
Speaker 8: the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor,
8:12
Speaker 8: So if it's twenty degrees out regular temperature, the wind
8:17
Speaker 8: starts blowing forty fifty degree below windschill. I did my
8:21
Speaker 8: undergraduate work there. Nobody goes out at to.
8:25
Speaker 1: See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing
8:29
Speaker 1: his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he
8:32
Speaker 1: thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.
8:35
Speaker 1: But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not
8:38
Speaker 1: with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is
8:43
Speaker 1: he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.
8:46
Speaker 1: And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge
8:49
Speaker 1: or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,
8:53
Speaker 1: he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.
8:58
Speaker 1: See I start right there, That's where I start the story,
9:03
Speaker 1: and I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.
9:05
Speaker 1: I just think that's Craig cray.
9:08
Speaker 5: Well, I'm wondering if Subway was actually open at two
9:11
Speaker 5: in the morning.
9:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although
9:15
Speaker 1: I did have a mini boycott for a week after
9:18
Speaker 1: Jared was you busted on child porn? I guess it
9:23
Speaker 1: was their spokesperson. But long story short, Darryl Cohen, I
9:28
Speaker 1: mean a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely nothing
9:31
Speaker 1: to do with it.
9:32
Speaker 5: I don't think it has anything to do with it.
9:34
Speaker 5: I think what has to do with it is did
9:36
Speaker 5: it or did it not happen? And as far as
9:39
Speaker 5: I can see from all of the evidence that's been
9:41
Speaker 5: presented to me, this guy is looking for more publicity
9:45
Speaker 5: for whatever the reason, and he is about to get it.
9:48
Speaker 1: Well, he's getting it all right, Okay, e K. Let's
9:51
Speaker 1: just go with the premise that it's true because the official,
9:55
Speaker 1: the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being
9:58
Speaker 1: treated as a victim because he is a victim. Crime
10:07
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grief. In the last hours, we learn
10:15
Speaker 1: that Netflix is at it again, sturring their witches cauldron
10:20
Speaker 1: with quote new evidence that the hate crime against Jesse
10:24
Speaker 1: Smilette and his story quote might just be a true story.
10:33
Speaker 1: As you will recall. Soon after Smollett takes to the
10:39
Speaker 1: airwaves describing how he was the victim of a hate crime,
10:43
Speaker 1: Chicago PD released surveillance images of the perpetrators and identify
10:50
Speaker 1: the two as also being black. They are Nigerian American brothers.
10:56
Speaker 1: So we see the attackers performing a quote hate crime
11:02
Speaker 1: on Smolette who is black, and the purpse are black. Okay,
11:08
Speaker 1: just let that soak in for a moment. To claim
11:12
Speaker 1: a hate crime and wrap a rope around your neck
11:18
Speaker 1: as if you were threatened with lynching. Nothing could be
11:22
Speaker 1: more incendiary in our American consciousness. A horrible, horrible era
11:33
Speaker 1: that our country endured, all brought to the forefront by
11:39
Speaker 1: Smollette's hoax. Then evidence came out Smolet orchestrated his own
11:45
Speaker 1: attack and paid the brothers nearly four thousand dollars. Idiot
11:51
Speaker 1: wrote a check. Yeah, idiot wrote a check for his
11:57
Speaker 1: hate crime attack. What more do we know?
12:02
Speaker 3: When did you, because as you said, it was an
12:05
Speaker 3: accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you
12:11
Speaker 3: make that information available to the police.
12:15
Speaker 2: We gave we had to give the phone records, which
12:19
Speaker 2: they didn't originally ask for my phone records. They asked
12:21
Speaker 2: for my phone. They wanted me to give my phone
12:24
Speaker 2: to the tech for three to four hours. I'm sorry,
12:28
Speaker 2: but I'm not gonna do that. Why Because I have
12:35
Speaker 2: private pictures and videos and numbers, my partner's number, my
12:41
Speaker 2: family's number, my castmate's number, my friend's numbers, my private emails,
12:47
Speaker 2: my private songs, my private voice memos. I don't know
12:50
Speaker 2: what that's going to be to hand over my phone.
12:53
Speaker 2: And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been
12:57
Speaker 2: put out there.
12:59
Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend superstar Robin Robert said ABC's GMA,
13:04
Speaker 1: She's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smollette, the
13:08
Speaker 1: Empire star Everybody Loves Empire. The Empire star who claims
13:13
Speaker 1: that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he
13:17
Speaker 1: decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets
13:19
Speaker 1: a sandwich, and is attacked by two guys that throw
13:22
Speaker 1: acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around
13:27
Speaker 1: his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He
13:32
Speaker 1: manages to get home and call police. He says he
13:35
Speaker 1: calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that
13:39
Speaker 1: is why they wanted the phone to confirm that he
13:43
Speaker 1: called his manager and not nine to one one. They
13:46
Speaker 1: aren't being clear why they want the phone, but they
13:48
Speaker 1: want the phone. Karen Smith jourining me for insics expert
13:51
Speaker 1: out of Florida. Why do they want Jesse Smollette's phone?
13:55
Speaker 7: Listen, when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators,
13:59
Speaker 7: the best now in the world of social media and
14:02
Speaker 7: texting is to get the phone of the victim. You
14:05
Speaker 7: can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook and
14:08
Speaker 7: Twitter and all of those things, and text messages especially
14:12
Speaker 7: Listen if nothing happened. And I understand, you know the
14:16
Speaker 7: privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and whatever
14:19
Speaker 7: that he not released.
14:20
Speaker 6: But the police they're not going to go into that.
14:23
Speaker 7: That's not their interest. Their interest is looking at communications
14:27
Speaker 7: between Jesse Smollett and these other alleged perpetrators if there
14:32
Speaker 7: was any, if there was any, the phone call that
14:35
Speaker 7: he made to his manager, what time did he make it,
14:37
Speaker 7: where did he make it from. All of those questions
14:40
Speaker 7: have to be answered, and they have to have the device.
14:42
Speaker 7: They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not
14:45
Speaker 7: how life works anymore.
14:47
Speaker 1: Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,
14:51
Speaker 1: felony prosecutor, and the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted. I
14:54
Speaker 1: just missed him, Darryl. At the time when we were
14:58
Speaker 1: when I first started prospers, we did not have DNA,
15:02
Speaker 1: we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it
15:05
Speaker 1: old school, okay, and we did it now with the
15:09
Speaker 1: advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is
15:16
Speaker 1: saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is
15:21
Speaker 1: a problem to me. I don't have a problem with
15:23
Speaker 1: anything else he's saying. But when he says find you
15:26
Speaker 1: know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry
15:28
Speaker 1: at two am or goes out in sub zero that
15:31
Speaker 1: below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't
15:35
Speaker 1: hand your phone over to cops, that is a big
15:38
Speaker 1: red flag to hay with your private communications. If you
15:42
Speaker 1: have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a
15:47
Speaker 1: rope tied around your neck out on the street, you're
15:51
Speaker 1: handing your phone over because you want those people caught, right,
15:55
Speaker 1: I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing, Darryl.
15:58
Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with finding
16:01
Speaker 5: out why he would call his manager. The last time
16:04
Speaker 5: I checked, was not a law enforcement person, was not
16:07
Speaker 5: a bodyguard. Why would you not call the police any
16:11
Speaker 5: of us. Any of us, whether we're an actor, whether
16:14
Speaker 5: we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief, whatever we may be,
16:18
Speaker 5: we are going to call the police if something bad happens.
16:21
Speaker 5: So yeah, I've got a real problem with him not
16:23
Speaker 5: turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse, but he
16:27
Speaker 5: thinks he's Jesse James. He is having Oh you work
16:31
Speaker 5: right now. He's having a real problem.
16:33
Speaker 1: You probably stand up all night.
16:34
Speaker 5: Law. I thank you coming.
16:36
Speaker 1: Up with that. He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay,
16:39
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to just pass over that one.
16:41
Speaker 1: You know, it's a big deal to me, Darryl. And
16:46
Speaker 1: I know you're a famous defense attorney now, but in
16:48
Speaker 1: my mind, you'll always be an incredible felony prosecutor because
16:53
Speaker 1: you could get a jury eating out of your hand.
16:56
Speaker 1: You're always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts,
17:00
Speaker 1: knew at all when you went in front of a jury,
17:03
Speaker 1: and in this case, when you have a victim that
17:06
Speaker 1: does not cooperate with police, that is a problem. I
17:09
Speaker 1: don't care who he is. I don't care who he
17:13
Speaker 1: sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.
17:18
Speaker 1: But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is
17:22
Speaker 1: a problem with me. What's your problem.
17:25
Speaker 5: There's a problem with me as well. I've got another
17:28
Speaker 5: problem with that. How in the world in the middle
17:31
Speaker 5: of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees
17:35
Speaker 5: it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by
17:40
Speaker 5: two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?
17:44
Speaker 5: Really and you well.
17:46
Speaker 1: Because he's a famous things TV star. So here, here's
17:51
Speaker 1: the thing. This is another wrinkle in this too, Ellenklauren
17:55
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com. Hold On, I'm going to write
17:57
Speaker 1: this down. Here's the thing. So, if they were targeting
18:02
Speaker 1: Jesse Smolette, Okay, hold on, they were targeting him and
18:07
Speaker 1: this was a hate crime, how do they know to
18:10
Speaker 1: be outside the subway at too am with bleach and rope?
18:17
Speaker 1: Or are they just hanging around to get a sandwich
18:19
Speaker 1: and they happen to have bleach and rope with them?
18:24
Speaker 1: If they were targeting Jesse Smolette, E k were they
18:28
Speaker 1: casing out his apartment? Why were they there at two am?
18:33
Speaker 1: And I haven't even touched on these two guys, these
18:37
Speaker 1: two Nigerian guys that work out in his apartment building,
18:43
Speaker 1: gim that know him, that have been extras on the
18:47
Speaker 1: set of Empire, or at least one of them has
18:51
Speaker 1: that have been questioned and released and allegedly are now
18:56
Speaker 1: saying they were paid to do the attack. But first
18:59
Speaker 1: of all, to get to the theory, Ellen to Laurence.
19:02
Speaker 1: So the perps were what waiting outside the subway sandwich
19:07
Speaker 1: shop for him? I mean, what's the theory here? How
19:10
Speaker 1: did they know he was going to be getting a
19:12
Speaker 1: sandwich at two am if he was the one targeted
19:16
Speaker 1: for a hate crime?
19:17
Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was
19:19
Speaker 6: going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse
19:23
Speaker 6: has an un Instagram account and he's a very active
19:25
Speaker 6: social media user, and we learned over the weekend that
19:29
Speaker 6: he had been in New York during the previous days
19:32
Speaker 6: and he was on He had flown back to Chicago
19:36
Speaker 6: that night, but his flight was the lead and he
19:39
Speaker 6: came in much later and expected, and he posted a
19:42
Speaker 6: couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram account talking about
19:47
Speaker 6: how his flight was delayed. So someone who had to
19:51
Speaker 6: have had a little bit of information about what was
19:54
Speaker 6: going on with him that day, if they wanted to
19:56
Speaker 6: track his movements, they could to a certain degree through
20:00
Speaker 6: his social media activity.
20:02
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this, Eka, regarding Jesse Smileette.
20:06
Speaker 1: Now that may make it make more sense that he
20:09
Speaker 1: was out at two am? Was he was his flight
20:13
Speaker 1: so delayed? He was just getting home from the airport
20:16
Speaker 1: at say one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know
20:19
Speaker 1: the timing of that? Because that makes although the Chicago
20:23
Speaker 1: airport is full of food, but I don't know if
20:26
Speaker 1: it would be open. The food stands will be opened
20:28
Speaker 1: that late at night. So if he gets off a
20:30
Speaker 1: plane from New York and he gets in midnight, gets
20:34
Speaker 1: to his apartment at one, he may very well be hungry.
20:37
Speaker 1: And there is a theory out there that that is
20:42
Speaker 1: how he communicated to set up the attack through posting,
20:47
Speaker 1: you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, that these two brothers could
20:51
Speaker 1: actually see his movements by looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, Ek,
20:56
Speaker 1: do we know what time he got in from his flight?
20:59
Speaker 8: Don't ask me what.
21:00
Speaker 6: Time he landed or got back to his apartment. But
21:04
Speaker 6: it does We don't have a lot of very clear
21:06
Speaker 6: information at all, Nancy, but it does seem as though
21:10
Speaker 6: it's likely that he did stop off at his apartment first.
21:13
Speaker 6: But like you said, he has been away the middle
21:17
Speaker 6: of the night. He probably hasn't eaten. He's on the
21:20
Speaker 6: flight for longer than expected. The Food Court.
21:22
Speaker 9: Put it the Coon.
21:27
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Netflix at it again, this
21:36
Speaker 1: time climbing Jesse Mullett quote might just be telling the truth,
21:41
Speaker 1: He's not. Why are you even saying that Smllet, initially
21:46
Speaker 1: indicted on sixteen counts of felony disorderly conduct, charges were dropped.
21:52
Speaker 1: You remember that Kim Fox all up in the middle
21:55
Speaker 1: of it. A year later he was re indicted. There
21:59
Speaker 1: was a high profile trial. He was convicted and sentenced
22:02
Speaker 1: to thirty months probation Hello, plus one hundred and fifty
22:07
Speaker 1: days in jail finds over one hundred thousand dollars. But
22:11
Speaker 1: then that conviction was reversed. The Illinois Supreme Court found
22:17
Speaker 1: that reprosecution violated do you process. But then in twenty
22:25
Speaker 1: twenty five, Smollett settles with the City of Chicago and
22:31
Speaker 1: to this day denies he staged the attack. Yes you did,
22:36
Speaker 1: and this is how we know it. Let's just look
22:39
Speaker 1: not at Netflix, not at what Smollett says, but at
22:42
Speaker 1: the facts.
22:44
Speaker 2: I think that what people need to hear is just
22:47
Speaker 2: the truth.
22:49
Speaker 1: It's just the.
22:49
Speaker 2: Truth, because everybody has their own idea. Some are healing
22:56
Speaker 2: and some are hurtful. But I just want young people,
23:02
Speaker 2: young members of the LGBTQ community, young black children, to
23:08
Speaker 2: know how strong that they are, to know the power
23:12
Speaker 2: that they hold in their little pinky.
23:14
Speaker 9: It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse
23:17
Speaker 9: Smolette bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the
23:21
Speaker 9: raw motions.
23:23
Speaker 1: Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?
23:26
Speaker 2: I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram
23:30
Speaker 2: and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,
23:34
Speaker 2: I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken, sometimes maybe too outspoken,
23:45
Speaker 2: but it's who I am, you know, So I get
23:49
Speaker 2: the idea of pissing people off, that you're going to
23:52
Speaker 2: rub people the wrong way.
23:54
Speaker 9: In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a
23:57
Speaker 9: letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago, threatening
24:00
Speaker 9: language at least with powdery substance likely Tailan knol Do
24:04
Speaker 9: you think there's a link between the letter and the
24:07
Speaker 9: attack and you did mention it to.
24:10
Speaker 3: The police right away out of the.
24:11
Speaker 2: Letter, absolutely, just because on the letter it had a
24:17
Speaker 2: stick figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing
24:19
Speaker 2: towards it, with the words that said small at Jesse,
24:22
Speaker 2: you will die black. There was no address, but the
24:25
Speaker 2: return address it in big red, you know, like caps maga.
24:30
Speaker 2: Did I make that up too?
24:32
Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with
24:36
Speaker 1: Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that
24:39
Speaker 1: the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed
24:42
Speaker 1: the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video
24:47
Speaker 1: that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse
24:52
Speaker 1: Smollett have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.
25:00
Speaker 1: What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters
25:04
Speaker 1: that he claims he got leading up to this attack?
25:08
Speaker 1: Threatening letters?
25:10
Speaker 6: Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the
25:14
Speaker 6: alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where
25:18
Speaker 6: he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it contained
25:23
Speaker 6: direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's two things
25:28
Speaker 6: about the letter that are coming up more recently in
25:31
Speaker 6: the discussion around this case. One of those is that
25:34
Speaker 6: some unidentified sources who have access to the set and
25:39
Speaker 6: may even work with Jesse, have told CBS News that
25:43
Speaker 6: he was unhappy about the response to the letter and
25:47
Speaker 6: the threat that he got, that he felt that there
25:50
Speaker 6: wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he was angry,
25:54
Speaker 6: and that they're questioning did he set up this orchestrate
25:58
Speaker 6: this purported hate crime as retaliation for that. The other
26:03
Speaker 6: thing that we're learning, and again these are not official
26:07
Speaker 6: law enforcement statements. These are unidentified sources you are talking
26:10
Speaker 6: to new thoughtless. But we're learning that the letter was
26:13
Speaker 6: made out of and you can see it in the photos.
26:16
Speaker 6: The letter was written sort of like a ransom type
26:18
Speaker 6: of letter with cutout letters from a magazine. And we're
26:22
Speaker 6: hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of
26:27
Speaker 6: these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved
26:30
Speaker 6: in this attack, they took away a magazine.
26:33
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall, are
26:36
Speaker 1: these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha
26:40
Speaker 1: Christi and Erquil Poirot, like in the movies where you
26:45
Speaker 1: cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them
26:49
Speaker 1: on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.
26:54
Speaker 1: And also we are learning for sure that in a
26:58
Speaker 1: follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned
27:02
Speaker 1: something about this is Maga country, which relates back to
27:06
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but
27:12
Speaker 1: I can tell you this. Remember the Runaway Bride when
27:15
Speaker 1: she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass
27:20
Speaker 1: and do community service out in the public for I
27:22
Speaker 1: forgot how long other people have done jail time, hard
27:27
Speaker 1: jail time for bringing police in on a hoax of
27:30
Speaker 1: an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really happening
27:35
Speaker 1: at the time of a hoax, and instead of dealing
27:38
Speaker 1: with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands and
27:42
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve a
27:46
Speaker 1: fake call. And this one, if it is fake, is
27:50
Speaker 1: a whopper. Now what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall
27:54
Speaker 1: the studio, the Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've
27:58
Speaker 1: been told, but according to sources, he was unhappy with
28:02
Speaker 1: the reaction to the letters. Does that mean what, they
28:05
Speaker 1: didn't get enough attention. What does that mean to you,
28:07
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany.
28:08
Speaker 8: Well, you were mentioning the runaway bride and these crimes
28:13
Speaker 8: where we find out it's a hoax in the end.
28:15
Speaker 8: And I don't know if this was a hoax or not.
28:17
Speaker 8: But in forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained
28:21
Speaker 8: to do with crime victims is to find out if
28:24
Speaker 8: they're doing something called malingering. MA Lingering is when you
28:29
Speaker 8: make up medical symptoms or you exaggerate medical symptoms for
28:34
Speaker 8: some external reward. It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent
28:39
Speaker 8: of criminal cases, lingering is involved in some way, twenty
28:43
Speaker 8: percent of PI cases, as you can imagine MA lingering,
28:46
Speaker 8: thirty percent of disability cases. The sicker I am, the
28:50
Speaker 8: more I'm going to get some kind of reward or
28:52
Speaker 8: attention or I'm going to get out of some consequence,
28:57
Speaker 8: like you're not going to send me to jail, I'm
28:59
Speaker 8: not going to have to go to the military. So
29:01
Speaker 8: what's so interesting to me about this story is the
29:06
Speaker 8: exaggerate two aspects, the exaggerated nature of his symptoms. He's
29:11
Speaker 8: sitting on the sidewalk, bleach on his clothing, the rope
29:15
Speaker 8: around his neck, wouldn't you pull a rope off? No,
29:17
Speaker 8: he's sitting there, you know, with the clear sign that
29:20
Speaker 8: he's been accosted. He talks about being black, gay, LGBTQ,
29:24
Speaker 8: anything that could paint him in a sympathetic light, he
29:27
Speaker 8: keeps putting out there. The second aspect is the fuzzy
29:32
Speaker 8: nature of the timeline. When somebody malingers, they usually obstruct
29:37
Speaker 8: the investigation process. They do not want the investigators to
29:41
Speaker 8: know clearly what happens. So if I have a patient
29:43
Speaker 8: and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall, I was,
29:47
Speaker 8: I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me. I
29:49
Speaker 8: want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,
29:51
Speaker 8: what did your boss say?
29:52
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
29:52
Speaker 8: I just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very
29:57
Speaker 8: fuzzy dkay.
29:58
Speaker 1: Now is it true? Ek Ellen color crime online dot
30:00
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter that Smolead had been in New York
30:04
Speaker 1: to audition for a role in the play that is
30:08
Speaker 1: very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we
30:14
Speaker 1: know about the play for which he was auditioning?
30:19
Speaker 6: He was at a reading. Actually it wasn't an audition.
30:23
Speaker 6: I believe he's already part of the cast. But that's
30:25
Speaker 6: what he was doing in New York. He was flying
30:27
Speaker 6: back to He was flying back to Chicago from New York,
30:30
Speaker 6: and he was in New York because he was doing
30:32
Speaker 6: a reading of the script of this play. And the
30:35
Speaker 6: character in the play is a person of color. It's
30:39
Speaker 6: a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in the
30:41
Speaker 6: cave in the case of the fictional character. But he
30:44
Speaker 6: is someone who the character is someone who has been
30:49
Speaker 6: the victim of hate crimes that, according to the reports
30:53
Speaker 6: that we're reading the have some similarities in the crime
30:57
Speaker 6: that was allegedly committed against him, just that within hours
31:01
Speaker 6: of him arriving back to Chicago for.
31:03
Speaker 1: The same wording, the same slurs, awful slurs. If this
31:07
Speaker 1: is true, it is a hate crime. I'm learning also
31:12
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in felony court,
31:17
Speaker 1: that he Smelette did not call police. It was a
31:21
Speaker 1: close associate about forty minutes after the attack, according to
31:24
Speaker 1: the New York Times, and I think that was his manager.
31:27
Speaker 1: He did not call police. And when Cox got to
31:30
Speaker 1: his place, he still was wearing the rope around his neck.
31:34
Speaker 5: Help me, well, I can help you, Nancy, because it
31:38
Speaker 5: sounds to me like a setup. Did you also pay
31:41
Speaker 5: attention to his voice. This is a guy that's reading
31:45
Speaker 5: a script. This is not someone who's upset. This is
31:48
Speaker 5: not someone who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not
31:52
Speaker 5: going to be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail.
31:56
Speaker 5: Add the fact that he's not giving his phone to
31:59
Speaker 5: the police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all
32:03
Speaker 5: he can do is say, oh my gosh, I was
32:06
Speaker 5: attacked and this is terrible, but he has a noose
32:09
Speaker 5: around his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a
32:14
Speaker 5: guy who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars
32:20
Speaker 5: on television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry,
32:25
Speaker 5: not the same. Some are, some are not. This guy
32:28
Speaker 5: is reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,
32:32
Speaker 5: he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, but
32:35
Speaker 5: what he didn't see is that he's not as bright
32:38
Speaker 5: as he believes himself to be. So he's not shakesa Take.
32:41
Speaker 1: A Listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers Ola
32:45
Speaker 1: and abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told detectives.
32:50
Speaker 4: Their role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on
32:53
Speaker 4: actor Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say
32:58
Speaker 4: Smolette pay the brothers Thou to carry out a staged attack.
33:02
Speaker 4: So Malette had this to say about the scuffle with
33:05
Speaker 4: his attackers.
33:06
Speaker 2: He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face.
33:10
Speaker 2: So I punched the ass back. I noticed the rope
33:13
Speaker 2: around my neck and I started screaming.
33:15
Speaker 1: People that make false claims to police, much less to
33:18
Speaker 1: this extent, usually land behind bars. If they're regular mortals
33:25
Speaker 1: like all of us. If your Hollywood star, maybe you
33:28
Speaker 1: get different treatment. Jesse Smollett, superstar on the cast of
33:32
Speaker 1: Empire to Ellenclaurincrimeline dot com investigative reporter where we have
33:38
Speaker 1: all breaking crime and justice news. Ellen, what can you
33:41
Speaker 1: tell me about these two guys. Everyone refers to them
33:44
Speaker 1: as Nigerian. They're American, That's right, Nancy.
33:47
Speaker 6: They were bored and raised in Chicago. The reason I
33:50
Speaker 6: believe that people are calling them Nigeria is because they
33:54
Speaker 6: for reasons that have not been explained and I do
33:56
Speaker 6: not understand. Apparently, slew to Nigeria the day after the
34:01
Speaker 6: attack and came back to Chicago last week where they
34:04
Speaker 6: were met with investigators at the airport. That has not
34:07
Speaker 6: been explained why that happened or if it has anything
34:11
Speaker 6: to do at all with the alleged assaults. And I
34:16
Speaker 6: also wanted to point something else out, since we're talking
34:18
Speaker 6: about the rope and the phone. A lot of the
34:23
Speaker 6: things that have come up in recent days really don't
34:26
Speaker 6: look look good like they look very suspicious, and and
34:29
Speaker 6: things are starting to really maybe fall apart here in
34:32
Speaker 6: this story. But a couple of things I think are
34:35
Speaker 6: not suspicious that happened here. I don't think it's suspicious
34:38
Speaker 6: that he did not want to hand over his entire
34:41
Speaker 6: phone immediately. He's a public figure, he's a celebrity.
34:45
Speaker 8: You who had Allen received before?
34:47
Speaker 1: Allen, have you ever been attacked at two am, had
34:50
Speaker 1: a rope tied around your neck and bleach port on you?
34:54
Speaker 1: Because if you have, I'd like I have you not
34:55
Speaker 1: got that? Okay? Because if that happens to you and
34:58
Speaker 1: your life is in danger, and say we need your phone,
35:01
Speaker 1: you go here whatever I mean when the cop pulls
35:05
Speaker 1: me over, which has happened, I like say whatever here,
35:10
Speaker 1: take it all okay, Just please leave my children behind. Whatever.
35:15
Speaker 1: I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay. Nobody
35:19
Speaker 1: should be above the law. And if they want your phone,
35:22
Speaker 1: give your phone. But you know what, that's you and
35:25
Speaker 1: this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.
35:30
Speaker 6: But what I wanted to also say is that I
35:32
Speaker 6: believe he did agree to hand over the full records
35:35
Speaker 6: about the rope. What we heard in the in the
35:38
Speaker 6: beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope
35:41
Speaker 6: around his neck because he didn't want to sort of
35:44
Speaker 6: disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to
35:49
Speaker 6: see what had been done. That was the explanation for
35:52
Speaker 6: the rope of being left.
35:54
Speaker 1: You know what, I hear you. And he could have
35:58
Speaker 1: claimed that he did not want his DNA his I
36:03
Speaker 1: don't think you get prints off rope, but any of
36:05
Speaker 1: his fibers or DNA on the rope, or to ruin
36:08
Speaker 1: any evidence on the rope. So I can understand that.
36:12
Speaker 1: Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,
36:18
Speaker 1: but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ
36:22
Speaker 1: our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over
36:28
Speaker 1: and the cops rejected them. The cops rejected them Darryl
36:32
Speaker 1: cod are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying
36:36
Speaker 1: that they were so heavily redacted that they were basically
36:42
Speaker 1: of no use. What about handing over your phone records
36:45
Speaker 1: to cops and you redact them.
36:49
Speaker 5: Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have
36:52
Speaker 5: a victim of a crime. First of all, I want
36:55
Speaker 5: to go back to the net of the noose. If
36:57
Speaker 5: I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,
36:59
Speaker 5: I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I
37:01
Speaker 5: possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was
37:05
Speaker 5: not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking
37:09
Speaker 5: for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,
37:13
Speaker 5: but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win
37:15
Speaker 5: a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who
37:19
Speaker 5: doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted
37:23
Speaker 5: and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,
37:26
Speaker 5: living soap opera.
37:28
Speaker 1: That the whole reason they got interested in the phone
37:30
Speaker 1: records to start with is that Smolette said to cops
37:33
Speaker 1: he was on the phone with his manager at the
37:36
Speaker 1: time of the attack, and that the manager says he
37:39
Speaker 1: heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown and they
37:45
Speaker 1: want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.
37:50
Speaker 1: They asked Salent for the records about two weeks before
37:53
Speaker 1: they got a PDF file. Now, police also say their
37:58
Speaker 1: cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a sixty
38:01
Speaker 1: second gap in the video where you don't see the
38:04
Speaker 1: Empire Star, so there's no video of the actual attack.
38:08
Speaker 1: I've looked at shots of the video and you see
38:11
Speaker 1: two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is
38:13
Speaker 1: what is telling to me, Doctor Bethany Marshall. These two
38:17
Speaker 1: guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very
38:21
Speaker 1: clear on that. Who take off to Nigeria. The day
38:25
Speaker 1: after the attack. They work out in his building. At
38:28
Speaker 1: least one of them does in the gym in Spolette's building,
38:33
Speaker 1: his apartment building. One of them has been an extra
38:36
Speaker 1: on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.
38:39
Speaker 1: I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing
38:42
Speaker 1: a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.
38:45
Speaker 1: So you can see they work out all the time.
38:48
Speaker 1: They take off for Nigeria the day after the attack,
38:50
Speaker 1: they come back and they're met by the cops, they
38:53
Speaker 1: are questioned, they are released Dtor Bethany no charges and
38:59
Speaker 1: after meeting with cop say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolett.
39:04
Speaker 1: What does that say to you, doctor Bethany.
39:06
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now
39:08
Speaker 8: thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid
39:11
Speaker 8: for the attack, right, And some people do not think
39:16
Speaker 8: ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into
39:19
Speaker 8: a crime. So they thought, may have fought, no big deal,
39:23
Speaker 8: we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,
39:25
Speaker 8: we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all
39:28
Speaker 8: blown over. But you know what, they talk to the police.
39:31
Speaker 8: As I was saying about malingering, the whole story does
39:34
Speaker 8: not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and so
39:37
Speaker 8: the police are going to look to Jesse. And I
39:40
Speaker 8: would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of this?
39:45
Speaker 8: When people malinger symptoms.
39:47
Speaker 7: You know, I was.
39:47
Speaker 8: Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it for
39:50
Speaker 8: a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?
39:55
Speaker 8: Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants
39:59
Speaker 8: to prove to the EP of the show that he
40:03
Speaker 8: is the center of a national news situation. Is he
40:08
Speaker 8: wanting to take somebody else's role in Empire? You know,
40:12
Speaker 8: I think that there's a reward there somewhere, and if
40:15
Speaker 8: you follow that trail, the whole thing begins.
40:17
Speaker 1: Well, I've been looking in researching and following and asking questions.
40:22
Speaker 1: According to CBS Chicago, who is there on the scene,
40:26
Speaker 1: Cotts want to speak to Smollette again based on quote
40:29
Speaker 1: new evidence they learn from the two friends the two guys. Now,
40:35
Speaker 1: according to CBS, two sources told them that Smolette paid
40:40
Speaker 1: the two guys thirty five hundred dollars to stage the attack.
40:44
Speaker 1: This is CBS This Morning anchor John Dickerson. Take a
40:48
Speaker 1: listen to what they see on the video.
40:50
Speaker 10: Please are looking for two potential persons of interest in
40:53
Speaker 10: a possible hate crime against actor Jesse Smollette. Please say
40:57
Speaker 10: a surveillance camera took these images of the two men
41:01
Speaker 10: on the night Smollette says he was beaten. The star
41:04
Speaker 10: of the TV drama Empire said his masked attackers yelled
41:08
Speaker 10: racist and homophobic slurs. Dean Reynolds is tracking the investigation.
41:13
Speaker 11: Investigators are hoping the FBI can enhance those images to
41:17
Speaker 11: provide some distinguishing details. Now, the men are not considered suspects,
41:22
Speaker 11: but the police do want to know who they are
41:25
Speaker 11: and what they were doing when Smollette says he was attacked.
41:28
Speaker 12: Sources tell CBS News the two figures seen in these
41:31
Speaker 12: dark surveillance images were also spotted sitting on a bench
41:35
Speaker 12: when Jesse Smolette walked past them across the street. They
41:39
Speaker 12: then appear to get up and follow him, although the
41:41
Speaker 12: three of them are never seen on camera together. About
41:45
Speaker 12: a minute later, investigators say another security camera captured Smolette
41:49
Speaker 12: returning to his apartment with a noose tied around his neck.
41:53
Speaker 12: The rope was untied but still on his neck when
41:56
Speaker 12: police arrived forty five minutes after he says he was
41:59
Speaker 12: a tact.
42:01
Speaker 1: The truth about Jesse Smollette, I think I already know
42:05
Speaker 1: the truth now. This is from the director Gagan Reehill
42:09
Speaker 1: and raw or Aw, the production company behind several Netflix
42:15
Speaker 1: hits such as Don't f With Cats and The Tender Swindler.
42:22
Speaker 1: This is what the director says, and I quote this
42:25
Speaker 1: story is a thrilling ride. A ride. This was a
42:31
Speaker 1: court case with evil intent on the behalf of Smollett
42:37
Speaker 1: to stir up hatred and more ill will across our country.
42:45
Speaker 1: He goes on to say, I wanted this documentary to
42:49
Speaker 1: balance their competing narratives. In other words, nobody's getting the
42:52
Speaker 1: same story because they're listening to Smollette lie end quote,
42:58
Speaker 1: use their color full testimonies translation lies more lies than Smollett.
43:08
Speaker 1: But more than that quote. I want this film to
43:11
Speaker 1: speak to the particular moment of rapid cultural change. I
43:16
Speaker 1: don't even know what he's talking about. That said, I
43:20
Speaker 1: do know the truth that came out in court under oath,
43:26
Speaker 1: under threat of perjury. Netflix documentary or Netflix documentary or
43:35
Speaker 1: Netflix documentary. I know what happened in court. Smellett did it.
43:44
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye,