Latest / Tales From Aztlantis / Episode 92: The Year Already Sucks!

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Episode 92: The Year Already Sucks! · Tales From Aztlantis

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: You must excuse me.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't easy enough.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: But you've learned a lesson.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: A lesson in honesty.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Honesty to yourself, honesty to others.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: That lesson must stand you in good step on your life.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've all learned a good lesson.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've always heard that honesty is the best policy.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm catching on to why that's so, and why that's so, why that's so, why that's so, why that's so, why that's so.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Greetings, dear listeners, and welcome to Tales from Ostlantis, where we take you on a journey through Chicano, Mexicano, and Mesoamerican history and archaeology, and we push back against the spread of disinformation about those very topics.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: We are your hosts, Curly Tlapoyawa.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: And Ruben Ariano Tlacatekat.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on, Dr.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Tlacatekat?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: How things are going on?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_06: Well, here in in Dallas, we're covered under a sheet of ice, snow, and sleet, and we've we've been pretty much paralyzed for the last couple of days here in the U.S.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_06: So that's that's where we are at the moment.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: It it snowed lightly here in Albuquerque yesterday.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um which was nice because it was cold and got to light a a fire in the fireplace and just kinda chill inside, listen to some records.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, drink some day whiskey.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Just kinda stay drinking.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Just you know, stay warm.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like what you do out in the field?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, it's it's gonna be bad.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um the colder it gets because we're doing linear surveys, so basically we're just doing survey in a straight line, knocking out transects.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: And when it's cold, man, especially when the wind's blowing like right in your face.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Nothing like a a nice, you know, toasty fire and a warm glass of beverage when you get back home.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta do something to keep warm, right?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh I don't know, you know, I'm I'm I'm a southern Colorado boy, so I I quite enjoy it when it's when it's cold.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I I prefer it, you know, to be out having fun in the cold and not working.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: And speaking of work, we've been putting in some work, folks.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: This is uh see the end of season five, the last episode of season five.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's always uh amazing to look back at all of the uh the episodes we've put out over the years and just everything that we've covered and and get feedback from the audience and uh you know, talking to people online and in the Discord server.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's always fun.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I've I've really enjoyed it.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: And uh for this final episode of season five, I thought we would do a little uh a little grab a bag of uh of topics and uh hopefully get some of your hot takes on some news items that I pulled up.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Those are always hot.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_06: Hot takes from uh Dr.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: Tlakatakot.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny um because I used to work for the Albuquerque Journal back in the day.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: I was a um, you know, graphic designer, and our first little uh news tidbit here comes from the Albuquerque Journal, and it's an opinion piece that I found interesting to say the least.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's titled Should New Mexico be renamed?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that piqued my interest.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I wanna what this guy's got to say.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I figured I knew where he was going and um I was not disappointed.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: But this individual uh is is asking that we consider renaming the state of New Mexico because you know it shouldn't be tied to Mexico.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: And uh let me uh let me read you some of uh this individual's uh thoughts here so I could get your take on this.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: And um I'm not gonna say his name because fuck him, but here's how it goes.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I quote I have lived in Albuquerque for forty-six years, and there is one thing that has always bothered me the name of this state.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: Perhaps it is time to consider changing it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: There are, after all, a lot of people who agree with me.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: One even suggested that we have a naming contest.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so he goes on to talk about how you know Mexico being tied to Mexico is a bad thing because of the bad numbers.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, it it he references the patron system.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, right, yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_06: Who could forget?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_06: You know?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_06: Unlike what we have today.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: Unlike the world we live in right now.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Much better place, yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: He says, uh You know, there are a lot of people here who trace their heritage to old Mexico.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: Old Mexico.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: But if Mexico was really important to them, they wouldn't be here.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: What an asshole.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: What a dumbass.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then he says, you know, there's a lot of Hispanics whose heritage lies elsewhere, not with Mexico, and they get terribly upset when they are referred to as Mexicans.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then he throws out his suggestion for what we should change the name of New Mexico to.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: This should be good.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's great.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, would you care to to guess?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like what what he thinks we should change the name to?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: New America?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: That would that would make sense, right?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's not even that clever.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: He wants to change it.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: He says, I think the name for our state should be Enchantment.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, for crying out loud.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then with all the skill of a uh you know, high school valedictorian, they pull this this old thing out from their speeches.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: The Cambridge Dictionary defines enchantment as a feeling of great pleasure and attraction, especially something that is very beautiful.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: You would approach it.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then he goes on to say that uh renaming our state enchantment would perhaps release us from the sins of the past, like the Patron system.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Be a prayer for a new beginning, point us in a new direction, and lead us to the realization that this state can and must be something that we could be proud of.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so he's not proud of the state now.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_06: Apparently he's not proud of it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: He lived here for forty six years.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_06: Forty-six years, but he's not proud of the state whatsoever.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's had plenty of opportunity to avail himself of the ability to travel and get out of New Mexico.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Another funny thing is um he's lived here for 46 years, and apparently he still thinks that New Mexico is named after the country of Mexico.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, because you know old Mexico and New Mexico.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: Old Mexico and New Mexico.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: And as we've discussed before, what about Unk Mexico?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a Unk Mexico?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Are you implying that this man is out of touch?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's uh he's a he's a New Mexico unk.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um well, you know, we've dist we've discussed it on the show before that New Mexico is not named after the country of Mexico that predates the country of Mexico.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: It predates the country of Mexico.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's named after the city of Mexico.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: Mexico Tenochtitlan, yeah, which was we also know it as the Aztec, the capital of of Tenochtitlan.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just find it interesting that the guys lived here for 46 years, and yet he he has thus far lacked the uh intellectual curiosity to actually find out how we got our name.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_06: Like if you're gonna be against something, at least know the basics of the thing that you're against.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_06: That would make sense.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_06: But that's asking for you know too much of these people, I swear.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, what does he think of, for instance, New England?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, yeah.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_06: Hey, that's tied to old England.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_06: And we had an entire revolution against the English, uh, you know, for independence.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_06: Does that ring a bell, unk?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um, what about new what what else is new?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_06: New Orleans?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's tied to those Frenchies, and we know how much we hate the French.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, it's so ridiculous, this guy.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_06: You know what?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_06: I I think, I mean, I'm sure he's probably had this idea for a very long time, but I think that the whole renaming the Gulf of Mexico by the idiot criminal in the wife house right now to uh demanding that it be called the Gulf of America.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_06: I think that might have something to do with this kind of renewed effort by these idiots to redrawing inspiration.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_06: Rename new tied to Mexico.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_06: If we're renaming stuff, we might as well do it now.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_06: Now's our chance.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what's funny is like that the Albuquerque Journal sought fit to even publish this because it's garbage.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's an are are they that desperate for content?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_06: Well, isn't the Albuquerque Journal uh kind of right-leaning in any way?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_06: So I mean it's it's it's something that it's gonna play to their to the base of the core readership.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_06: You know, there are probably a lot of these people who are okay with everything that's happening at the moment, I'm I'm pretty sure.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Yeah.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: I would just think that, you know, a uh a newspaper would try not to be basically uh a Reddit comment.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_06: Well, you know, a lot of a lot of the newsspaper has become just basically clickbait as well because they need leadership.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_06: They they need to pay the bills.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_06: And so if this is I mean, we're here talking about it, so obviously it's worked to a degree.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_06: God damn it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: Your rage bait got me.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_06: Prime example number one right here.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_06: I failed for your clever tricks, uh so it worked, man.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_06: It's like those billboards that you see like when you're driving down the interstate and they're blank and it says, your ad should be here.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_06: It works.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_06: You know, like those clever little messages to try to get you together.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, if you're reading this, you have to.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_06: If you're reading this, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_06: It's the same thing.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_06: Opinion should New Mexico be renamed?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_06: And then what I find curious about this story is that when you click on it, I don't know about your end, but on my end, there's a big picture of a roadrunner.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_06: So I was like, do they want to name it the Roadrunner State Runner or something?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm just about to bring that up.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: As a graphic designer, that's a really bizarre choice for the artwork, the associated artwork with this piece.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, what would you associate New Mexico if you were going to draw on an image to associate New Mexico with, I mean, it it wouldn't be the Roadrunner, I guess, is what you're saying, but what would it be?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, I would show um a map, I would show some historical photos from Mexico from you know old New Mexico from back in the day, or I would have used some sort of maybe the state constitution or some image that reflects the history of the state related, tying it to the name of the state.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but just to have the image of a roadrunner.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then what's really funny is underneath the roadrunner photo, it just says roadrunners are one of the many birds that can be found in New Mexico.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's like opening me for a loop.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, what does this have to do with this opinion piece?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Naming the state.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Are you even trying Albuquerque Journal?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I want to know.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because back when I was a graphic designer, and I want to tell you this story because it's hilarious.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: I was doing an ad because I was designing ads for the paper.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: They they came to me with an ad for a private school in Albuquerque.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, they gave me all the copy and they were like, this is how big you want it to be, and we would like there to be photos of students um studying, having a good time, interacting with each other.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Gotcha.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I I go in, you know, because we had this uh subscription to all of this stock imagery of photos and stuff that I could choose from, and I found a photo of some kids studying.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: They just happened to be black kids.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so I make this ad and I turn it in, and a few hours later the ad rep comes in looking like really uncomfortable, and they hand me the ad.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, um so first of all, uh good work.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they really like it, but they're asking if you could use a different photo of the students.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I looked up at them and they respond like real quick.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, I mean, I think they're great.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think the students look cute and I think it's super representative of what the message they're trying to put out there.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: But the the client uh would prefer that.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then I interrupted them and I said that they not be black.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: And the ad rep was like, oh, well, I'm not saying that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so you know somebody's saying it.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody's saying it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so they had me change the artwork.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: I kept, I printed out and I kept the original ad that I had designed because it's in my portfolio, so I should frame it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I like to bring that up as like an example of just how weird uh working at these places can be as a designer, as somebody who has to work with a client and come up with the artwork and stuff.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: But here, in this instance, this isn't an ad like that a client said, I want a photo of a roadrunner associated with this.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like a designer, ostensibly a designer or whoever their web page manager is, just kind of, well, fuck, let's let's just throw a roadrunner on it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um But now that I think about it, maybe we should rename New Mexico to Roadrunner Land.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: That would be Roadrunner Slan.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: Roadrunner Slan.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: Roadrunner Slanthus.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we should rename Texas Teja Slanthis, by the way.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: You should write an op-ed.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_06: I should.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: So then it's a bit of local rag.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't go fuckers.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um moving along, I um I'm a member of this uh Facebook group run by Archaeology Magazine.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: There was a post on it.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um a fairly innocuous post.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean the the the whole point of the post from Archaeology Magazine was to talk about NAGPRA and how there was going to be a um an online, like a free online talk bringing people up to date on NAGPRA and how it's being followed.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: Or not being followed.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and not being followed, yes, exactly.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: More precisely.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the post states you know, museums have been making updates, upgrades, and changes to comply with the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, or NAGPRA.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then it goes on to talk about how the Archaeological Institute of America, it's going to give a free online talk.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and it will explain how NAGPRA is an opportunity for healing, reciprocity, and relationship building between archaeologists, museums, and indigenous communities.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: Great, right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like one would think that this would be a net positive for for people.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: But as always, if you scroll down to the comments section of India, you never want to scroll down to the comments section.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Related.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_06: You never want to do that, man.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I I I did, unfortunately.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: You like to torture yourself, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was curious because I I just thought that from Archaeology magazine.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: That the readership would be a little bit more sensible?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a little smarter?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe more sensible, more truth-oriented, fact-oriented, maybe.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Or not a bunch of jerks, basically.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: Just say Yeah, not a bunch of dipshits.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: So the very first comment is from this person who says we all know what it's really about erasing the past and controlling the narrative.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Say what now?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's what NAGPRA's about.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_06: That's what Nagpra's about, apparently.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_06: Erase the past and control the narrative.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Powell Yes, because when you allow indigenous descendant communities to have a say over how their ancestral remains are handled.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_06: They're going to control what's said about them.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_06: How dare they control the narrative.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_06: Indians want to control what's said about them.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_06: Who do they think they are?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: The owners of their own histories?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: How dare they?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_06: How dare they?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then one of the responses to this is uh the hunter-gatherer tribal narrative rather than the truth of civilization.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Ross Powell What is that even that supposed to mean?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_06: Like what what is he saying here that that this is kind of like the opposite, right?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, they're not going to tell the truth about the real native history.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_06: So I don't get it.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_06: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: If we allow them to have a say in how their ancestral remains are used and presented, then they're going to distort history and somehow hide the real facts from the general public.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then another person chimes in, and the truth that people migrated to America from all over the world.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the truth that there were giants in the mounds, and the truth about what the mounds were built for.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's insane how quickly this devolves into just utter batshit insanity.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that some rando on the fucking internet somehow knows all of these things, like they have access to all of this hidden knowledge.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: It seems like you would be more than a commenter on a Facebook thread if you had access to all of this uh hidden knowledge that you're privy to.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you would have like book deals and speaking engagements and a professorship somewhere because you're like this intellectual giant who's uncovered this vast historical conspiracy.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: But nah, you're just some asshole on the internet spouting off because you want to talk shit about native people and how we shouldn't be allowed to control our own ancestral remains.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then another person pipes in Chikora, which I don't even know what they're talking about here.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say who's Chikora, that just comes out of nowhere.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: Chikora?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Chikora explains that the giants were created through breeding, hormone therapy, and nutrition.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: They were very real.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Chikora explains the religion cult, and that the god king must be taller than his servants.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's all documented, and archaeological evidence backs it up.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: But the tribal narrative historians are set to destroying our true history.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: Chikora.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: I thought Chikora, isn't that the place where you go to buy like makeup and uh perfume and stuff?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that Chikora?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, you're thinking of Sephora.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_06: It's like a store in the mall, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, Sephora.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm thinking of.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_06: And then I like the response.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_06: Chakora is a person?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_06: Someone else is responding.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_06: And then they ask the question, hormone therapy?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, they are real.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_06: Sure.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_06: Some of the accounts are exaggerated or made up, but there are way too many news articles of skeletons excavated.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_06: Good.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_06: News articles of skeletons excavated as proof of what?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_06: Giants?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Giants, I guess.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: I picked this just to illustrate how hostile people get towards NAGPRA and towards indigenous knowledge and just indigenous self-determination, like is a way of having a say in in how our stories are told.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then how that's almost always combined with this race racist pseudo-history.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And they're so confident.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: You read these comments and they're like 100% convinced that the shit they're spewing is uh is real.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then of course, you know, somebody has one intelligent comment.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: It says, uh, they passed that 35 years ago and they still haven't sent everything back, which is a good question.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_06: That's uh and no one responds to that reply, but then you have the next one right after them.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_06: Most natives I look up are recent transplants in the 1700s and are not the mound builders.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_06: So to bury these artifacts only hides this fact.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_06: Hardcore genealogists and DNA tests are making this very clear.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: What the fuck do genealogists have to do with this?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_06: That most recent native that most natives, I guess what, to certain areas are recent transplants in the 1700s, but transplants from where?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_06: Not from somewhere else.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, while there is a little bit of a nuance here that this person is trying to interject in the conversation, um, I think people who read this might not understand that just because you're a transplant from a different part of the Western hemisphere does not negate the fact that you're an indigenous person.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, people migrate across the within the Western Hemisphere.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Ross Powell So it's it's kind of hard to gauge what this person is really trying to get at, but you can tell that that they're trying to uh also kind of uh add to the conversation about you know hiding things and burying the facts and and uh obfuscating the truth or whatever.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then the uh the final one I want to bring up is this the icing on the cake, right?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: This guy and of course his fucking name is Skip.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because he says Skip.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_06: That sounds like a dog's name, and it's Skip.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_06: Right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: So uh yeah.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: So according to old Skip here, this is America's history, not just the Indians.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And somebody tries to correct him and says, Well, you should say Native American.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if this person's being like a dickhead.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to tell.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to tell.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_06: You know, like you should say like if they're being sarcastic, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, if they're being a sarcastic asshole.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: And they say, you should say Native American, and then Skip retorts with, We are all Native Americans.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh oh, Skip, you ignorant slut.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_06: So in my classes right now, today, if we were in class and not home because of ICE, um, we'd be uh discussing um indigenous America, the origins of people coming to the Americas, why it matters that they were first here, and why that continues to matter in terms of what a Native American uh person is.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_06: And I make the distinction.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm glad that Skip here at least didn't capitalize Native, because I tell my students that when you see the term Native American with a capital N, that should only ever apply to people who are indigenous to the Americas and who are indigenous to what is now the continental United States, generally speaking, although there's debate about that.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_06: But generally speaking, that's what we referred to Native Americans.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_06: And when you use the lowercase N to say Native American, that means anyone who was born in quote unquote the United States of America, by definition, technically, uh uh through the nationalist lens, they're Native Americans.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_06: But this guy skip here is trying to conflate the two, right?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_06: To say, well, we're all Native Americans.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_06: Like, no, if I was born here, I'm a Native American.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_06: That's not it, Bob.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: Wrong answer.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Wrong answer.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_06: Skip.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: And interestingly, I I would venture to guess that old Skip here would have no problem with uh getting rid of naturalized citizens or people who you know whose parents may have been undocumented but were were born here.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um He probably wouldn't have a problem with doing that.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_06: Those people aren't Native Americans.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're not the real Americans.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: I should just listen to you and stay away from the comments section.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_06: Hey, but uh at least it gives us something to talk about here so we can we can have a little conversation and educate people that are listening to this in case they didn't know.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_06: Although, I mean, to be fair, we've talked about this before, but I can't expect everyone to have listened to every single episode, especially if they're new listeners.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um so that reminds me, at some point we need to uh circle back to a couple of topics uh and kind of add some new perspective, even though if you know we might use some of the same old uh facts and information that we've already discussed, but we'll give it a different not that it's a uh a different interpretation, but we'll add in new findings, new information that we've uh uncovered uh within the last couple of years.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_06: Um stay tuned, folks.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_06: Next season we're gonna circle back to some old topics and also we're going to try to get to those topics that we thought we were gonna get to, but because of human sacrifice.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um by the way, unforeseen circumstances, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_06: You know, we haven't been able to.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know if everybody's noticed, but some shit's been going on that kind of shifted our focus.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: But um speaking of human sacrifice, the episode, I've actually started writing, I've written two episodes dealing with it so far.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the plan is to do it as a series instead of just a one-off episode.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've written sort of like the introduction piece that's gonna kick off the series, and then I've written an individual episode, and then I'm also trying to line up some interviews and stuff.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: So it's gonna be like an actual mini-series within the the podcast proper.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_06: Um kind of like the virgin um meeting series.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_06: Which reminds me, uh I know that there are some people out there a little disappointed because we didn't do an update this year, but um do not fret, as I like to tell my students, uh, it's coming.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_06: And hopefully we'll get it done for uh next season, season six.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: And speaking of a topic that um keeps rearing its head, I want to finally put this one to bed because I'm still seeing people argue about it online.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: And um it's the whole uh Latinos for Trump thing.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: People are like, you know, if anybody's a Latino for Trump, then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, me being me, I can't help myself.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I interject myself sometimes and I'm like, well, actually, it doesn't surprise me that anybody who identifies as Latino would have this outlook, would have this position, because if we look at Latino identity and Latinidad, these are very white-centered, conservative, colonial identities, and that we should just probably stop using them.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: And uh because they they prioritize whiteness.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I get a response that's like, yeah, but I'm not white.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, yeah, you're you're so close to getting it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: You're so fucking close to getting it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: So ergo, if Latinos, if Latinidad is whiteness and you're not white.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Think about it.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Come on.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_03: You're almost there.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: You're almost there.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: You're so close.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're so close.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I could picture them being like, you know, because I imagine what I'm gonna say in response.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: I try to anticipate their next question.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, well, if if I'm not a Latino, then what am I?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, okay, let's explore that.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Let's let's because it's gonna be complicated.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_06: It's gonna be very complicated.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_06: But the first thing is to get away from that Latin bullshit, man.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_06: And it's tough because there are people who might not necessarily want to identify as indigenous, even if they have a certain percentage.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_06: And so what do you tell those folks, right?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_06: Like if it's not Hispanic, if it's not Latino, then what is my identity?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_06: And and I like to tell folks is like this insistence that we have a collectivized identity is the issue, right?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_06: Because it it leads to being uh used by uh bad actors for control purposes, whether it's through political means or through economic means, which you know, the word Hispanic and the word Latino in this country at least, I don't know about Latin America, that's a whole different conversation, but here in the United States have been used for political purposes and for economic purposes.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_06: And and it's and it's over over time it's been it's coalesced into an identity.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_06: Now people use it as an identity.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_06: And I try to tell my students when the conversation comes up in my classes, is like, well, you know, if we l really look into it, if we investigate this and research it, we'll we'll find that the term Latino is not really an identity.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_06: And then I bring in to bear, you know, this idea of, well, I mean, if p anyone who is tied to uh Spain or has a Spanish last name or speaks Spanish or some other Iberian uh connection, whether it's Portuguese or what have you, uh can be a Latino or Hispanic.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_06: Well, where where do people from the Philippines, you know, end up in this?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_06: What about native people from the Southwest who were colonized by the Spanish by definition?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_06: They should also be quote unquote Hispanic or Latino because a lot of them Spanish last names, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_06: Even if may they might not speak Spanish anymore, but they used to.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_06: Their ancestors at one point spoke Spanish, just the same way that um indigenous people in Mexico uh had to uh were forced to speak Spanish, right?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_06: So are they also included in this?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_06: So you get people thinking, but there is really no solid, hard solution for that's a catch-all for everyone, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_06: And that's the problem.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_06: People are used to being lumped into this huge umbrella term because there's comfort in in numbers, right?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_06: It's for political purposes, for this and that.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_06: And like, yeah, but at the same time, it can be flipped and used against you at the same time.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_06: I don't know, man.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_06: This is I don't think we're gonna resolve this issue.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: But just for the record, I'm a Chicano.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_06: So Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_06: Chicano.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_06: And when people ask me, I tell them that I'm indigenous Chicano as well.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_06: Indigenous Chicano.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yep.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_06: Indigenous Chicano, or I'll say Chicano Masewale.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_06: Because not all Chicanos out there identify as indigenous either.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_06: So we have to qualify that.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: But that segues to the next little uh thing that grinds my gears that I kind of want to put to bed here.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um End of Year grievances.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's like festivus up in here.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um there was a lot of uh hullabaloo mixtives.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Some hullabaloo over whether Chicanos can be Trump supporters.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: And there was like all this argument, and I would just like to set, you know, the argument you know, set set it, set it to bed and just uh answer this for everybody listening.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely not.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, not only not, no, but fuck no.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: Chica being a Chicano and being a Trump supporter are antithetical.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: They are the antithesis, they are in direct conflict to each other.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: So call yourself fucking Latino if you want to be white, call yourself Hispanic, call yourself Mexican American, but you're not a Chicano.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, if you want to be truly honest with yourself, call yourself a punk bitch because that's what you are.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: If you're trying to rep our people and you're supporting this motherfucker.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: But that's, you know.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you know, recently, um the first not the first week, but so before uh classes start, we do what's called return week.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_06: And so uh we have uh a conference.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_06: Each school has its uh discipline has its own separate sort of mini conference and to get you like a little pep rally, right, for the semester to get you going.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_06: And uh one of the administrators who I only see at these uh meetings uh like once or twice a a year, uh, you know, she's f I'm not to be honest, I'm not really sure where she where she's from.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_06: I'm assuming she's from Venezuela now because of what she said.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_06: But, you know, she was going on about how after the new year that her mom had just recently passed away, and I was, you know, trying to con you know give her my condolences, and then she's like, Yeah, but you know, at least she was able to see Maduro be um captured and and spirited away for the benefit of the Venezuelan people.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_06: And she's like, Yeah, and it was it happened in the middle of the morning, and you know, my brothers and then and I, we got together, we we toasted and we called my mom and we we got her up out of bed in the middle of the night, and you know, there's this elderly woman who was like in her 90s, and she passed away like a few days after that, to celebrate the fact that think whatever you will of Maduro.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not saying he was someone that should be, you know, respected for whatever he did.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_06: You know, I'm not Venezuelan, I don't live there, I don't know what happened, but to to celebrate American imperialism in your homeland, if that is in fact your homeland, and and you celebrate the the intervention of the United States in your country for whatever reason, I've lost respect for this lady.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_06: That's all I can say.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_06: Don't blame her.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_06: Before I was like, okay, you know, this is a woman who's accomplished and who's done things and who continues to do things for the community, but the the sheer fact that she celebrated American imperialism, you know, in an intervention and regime change in in this country in South America, it's like I've I'm done.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_06: Like it, I'll I'll be polite to her, like I usually am with everyone, but that that interaction that we used to have, it's like this, I'm done with that.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_06: You know, it's like if if you're one of these people who pretends to be nice, like there's a lot of instructors um at my school who, you know, they pretend to be nice and and you know, they pretend to care about the students, you know, because we're supposed to be a student-centered uh college, and then you have these opinions that you're a mega, that you support Trump, and that you support uh immigration, and then you support like how how can those two things, you know, how can those two things go together?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_06: They conflict.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_06: You can't say that you're for the students and at the same time be f in favor of these policies that are destroying the communities and also affecting students themselves, right?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_06: Like I don't understand it.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_06: I really don't get it.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_06: But anyway, enough of my of my little diatribe there.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: I just have to put it out there because it was used by absolutely, man.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: So with with with those out of the way.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um I want to touch touch on some positivity here, man.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um I came across this story just from a few days ago uh from Calor News.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the headline is Tucson Leaders Discuss Possibility of a Mexican American Chicano Cultural Center.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the subheader is The City of Tucson is working with a contractor to make a decades-long dream of having a hub, having a hub for Chicano, having a hub for Chicano hair.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Making it a reality, Mayor Regina Romero said.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, I just found this story, you know, cool.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: It was it was inspirational.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it says Tucson is the closest it's ever been to having a Mexican-American Chicano cultural center, and how the community is getting together to uh to try to make this happen.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I just found it really cool, but I was also a little surprised or perplexed.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Same here.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_06: Same here.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_06: Forty-something years I've been trying to do this, and it's just now getting done.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, in Tucson of all places.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_06: In Tucson of all places.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_06: You know, this is weird because uh I think I've told you the story before when uh this is going back almost 30 years now.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_06: Uh I went up to uh Nebraska, and if I'm not mistaken, it was either Lincoln or one of those places uh in the Twin Cities.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_06: They had a Chicano Cultural Center there.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_06: This was back in the 90s.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_06: So you're telling me that they could have a Chicano, like it said it in big letters outside Chicano Cultural Center.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_06: And the Tucson is just now it's weird to me how this this happens, right?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And where was this at?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so it was um Lincoln, Nebraska, I believe.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_06: It was in Lincoln, if I'm not mistaken.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: You don't think maybe they um they they spelled Chicago wrong?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, maybe that's Chicago.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_03: Chicago.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, but on a series, like that's badass.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if it's still around.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: No, they changed the name to Latino something.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, Jesus Christ.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, because I spoke to the gentleman who used to be part of the board he's uh in the metro area now.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_06: He's working at one of the local universities, and this was like last year, uh not last year, the year before November of 2024.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_06: Um I spoke with him uh and he said that they had to change the name because they had dwindling uh uh foot traffic at the center because over time the people who called themselves Chicanos either moved away or stopped going to the center.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_06: And so most of the people who needed to use the place and wanted to use the place were uh recent immigrants, not just from Mexico, but from other parts of Central and South America, and they had no idea what a Chicano was, or so they they had to change the name to Latino.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_06: When would you accommodate for that?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_03: One of the purposes of a Chicano Heritage Center or cultural center is to teach the community about what a Chicano is and how that you know has impacted the place where they now live, like maybe a connection to the past where they can learn about the people who've built these places and uh you know, because history matters.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Call me crazy.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that's that's the story behind that one at least.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: What are you gonna do?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it says uh Tucson mayor Regina Romero, longtime Chicano community leader and organizer Raul Aguirre and historian and author Lydia Otero, um got together and uh started trying to make this happen.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: And what I really like is there's a quote from uh Aguirre, and it says, uh, he's been advocating for a Mexican American, Chicano indigenous, hell yeah, cultural center for 40 years.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then he says, Tucson did not become a Mexican American city, a Chicano city by accident.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: This culture has not arrived recently, it's always been here.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: And he continues, our labor has built this city, our music, our food, our language, our traditions define the very character of Tucson.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Hell yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_06: Good for him.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_06: And good on them.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_06: I'm I'm happy that this is finally happening for the city of Tucson.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sounds like a road trip would uh be necessary to get this uh get this up uh off the ground.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: We should go check it out.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's been it's been years.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_06: I think it's been going on seven, eight years now since I was last there at Tucson.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_06: Beautiful place.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_06: Love it.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Tucson's awesome.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: I've only been once, and it was geez, so long ago.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: And then uh another little tidbit story that I that I caught online.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's an interview, so I'm not gonna read from it because they're not my words.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a story called Her Art, and it this is from the San Diego Union Tribune.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: Her art saved her, and she's using it to encourage pride in Chicano culture and history.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it's uh an interview with a Chicana artist, muralist, and instructor at Aslan Libre in San Diego.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right name is Myra Mesa.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it's a really cool uh interview with her.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: It talks about her growing up as an artist, you know, getting away from doing her art and then returning to it later in life.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um she runs an organization called Arte Hasta la Muerte, and she's also the illustrator of a children's book called The Spirit of Chicano Park, El Espiritu del Parque Chicano by Beatrice Zamora.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it was the winner of the 2021 Tomas Rivera Book Award.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so there's a really great interview with this artist and how she's using her art to uh continue this tradition of chicanismo and chicanisma um through her art.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I encourage everyone, you know, stop doom scrolling, try to get away from all the negative.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know how fucking hard it is right now to do that.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: But we deserve, you know, some joy.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: We deserve uh a mental break to take care of ourselves and just not look at so much negativity, you know.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Let's let some positivity shine through.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_06: So I hope people union tribune and and it's under the local news section.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_06: So in case anyone's uh wanting to look it up, that's where it is.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it came out um January twenty-fourth, so just a couple of days ago.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: And also I have a little announcement.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: I've uh I've got a new book.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's a book involved?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: A book about to come out and I'm very excited about it.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's called Never Will It Be Lost.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it is a companion piece to the calendar that I publish every year.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: And um super excited.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: More news, you know, will come when it when it gets officially released.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'll do a little announcement leading up to that.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: But uh the cover is really dope.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's uh an artist online who goes by uh Mikorazon Mexica.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: And he allowed me to use the stuff.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_06: I like the stuff.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: He allowed me to use one of his paintings as the cover of the book.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm super stoked.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm very excited.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's coming out when I'm hoping it'll come out um like around the Mexica New Year.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: So like around March.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_06: Can you give can you give our listeners a taste of what might be in it besides just the general description, like something more specific?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so the main the main gist is it's it's it's like divided into two sections.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um the first section is sort of like this uh my interpretation, because you know, growing up as uh an atheist, right?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: As uh somebody who's has a non-theistic world view, but who also deeply respects and appreciates ceremony, ritual, community, um, cultural continuity.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's basically like me going over how I personally uh have interpreted the ancestral teachings and how how I utilize them in a in the in the modern world, right?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then the second part of the book uh is the part that's really, really tied to the calendar.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh the nineteen feasts or the nineteen ceremonies, uh sort of laid out with meanings behind the the history of those ceremonies, what they mean, what the primary sources say about these ceremonies, and then each one has sort of like a um a modern interpretation of the ceremonies, sort of like how can you, right now in 2026, celebrate these these feasts in a way that, you know, respects and acknowledges our ancestors.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_06: That's important because oftentimes people will do things and and they'll, you know, report on something that they've researched about the past and celebrations and ceremonies that people were doing.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_06: And oftentimes it's hard to kind of make a connection to current day.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_06: Like how can people at the present moment use if they wanted to uh begin celebrating those festivities and those holidays, like what what did what do you do?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_06: How do you go up?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, where do you even start, right?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_06: Especially if you're not connected to a community that's already doing that sort of stuff.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_06: So I think this is this is important.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_06: And and sounds like you're doing good work there, Curly.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's um I'm pretty proud of it.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um Michelle has been helping me out a lot with uh the editing and uh you know just because she was a journalist and uh that really good writer, and so she's been helping me kind of you know dial in a lot of uh my thought process.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_03: She's my she she's my copy editor.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_03: So she's been helping with that.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: And the and the book, honestly, man, was directly inspired by um and I don't want to give her name because I don't know if if she wants her name out there, but there's a a woman in in California who's been doing a lot of work with prisoners and using the calendar and like stuff that Ruben Ochoa and myself have written and published to really help out prisoners to understand, you know, to get culturally reconnected and just you know have something to do and and something meaningful.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_06: An alternative to running to the cross or existence.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_06: Or the present.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so she's been using the calendar, and one of the prisons in California uh declared the calendar to be uh contraband.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so she reached out to me and and and we we were talking about that, but then I got really inspired to be like, man, if I was in prison and you know, what would it mean to me if I had like what would I want access to?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: If I was unable to carry out ceremony or tradition, like I would like it's like you said, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_03: So that really directly uh inspired me putting this book together.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: And um and I hope people find it useful, you know.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, none of it's set in stone, like a lot of it's just my personal interpretations of things and suggestions of how you can, you know, carry out these ceremonies in a modern day.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I I I draw a lot from primary sources from the Florentine Codex and from the Primeros uh Memoriales and the writings of different cronistas.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I hope that people can can pick it up and you know take from it what they find useful and uh and you know, don't use what they don't find useful, right?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm not I'm not your fucking dad.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna tell you how to live your life.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: But hopefully people find it this way.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is the right way to do it.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a way, right?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a way that this could possibly be done.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: You could adapt it, you could modify it, you can elaborate upon it if uh if you find these things useful.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's really the the the crux, like like the uh the inspiration behind this this new book.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_03: So and uh hopefully um I'm able to get it into the hands of uh some incarcerated folks because I don't I don't know if you remember back but back in the day the Mexica Eagle Society had a a prison project.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: Aaron Ross Powell Right.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_06: I was just thinking about that in the prison project.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I used to, you know, we we would provide a lot of information and stuff to to people that were incarcerated, and then of course, you know, that shit got expensive and it was like a one-man operation, so that it kind of fell to the wayside.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I've always wanted to sort of not revitalize it entirely, but still find a way to to do that kind of work, you know.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I mean, do inmates have access?
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I know they have access to maybe computers and they can log on to the internet.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_06: You know what?
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_06: I I know that they have um uh tablets.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_06: Tablets, okay.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: They're not supposed to.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: But um, you know, they get them in.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: They they they find a way to get phones in.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_06: But tablets, now that that is something.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_06: If if they have access to tablets, at least they have con a connection to the outside world, right?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_06: And so if if they have if they have a way to access some of this material, if they can't have it physically because it's considered a contraband, maybe the next step would be to make it accessible online somehow.
• 56:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I I need to look into that because I'm not sure how that works, like how much they're able to access on the tablets or what they're because I'm sure there's controls over what they can look at and what they can what sort of information that that they're allowed.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.: What websites they're allowed to go to and things like that.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_03: So um if anybody on on the new uh calendar that just came out, um I did make it a point to talk about how maintaining the uh you know the knowledge of these calendrical systems is part of religious freedom.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that you know, these you should be allowed to to have access to this material, definitely.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's like a First Amendment issue as far as I'm concerned.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Ross Powell And if and if they want someone uh uh a way to to declare their religious freedom, they could also uh uh say that it's uh related to um there was an act that was that was passed that was similar to NAGPRA, but it was more about religious freedom.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_06: Do you remember what that was called?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_06: I'm blanking on the name of it.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I know what you're talking about, and I also don't remember.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_06: But it was specifically for native people for to allow Native people to be able to um do ceremony and to practice their indigenous uh religious uh ceremonies uh without interference from the government for because a lot of people don't realize this.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, native people up until maybe 40 years ago, like around the time NAGPRAB was passed, were not allowed to practice their indigenous beliefs if they weren't connected to Christianity.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_06: I'm not, you know, that's basically it.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_06: If it wasn't related to Christianity or if it was if it wasn't an indigenous version of Christianity, Native people were not allowed to practice their true, authentic, uh unuh colonized indigenous ways um until that act was passed.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm I'm blanking on the name of it, but it's Yeah, I looked it up.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: RFRA of nineteen ninety-three.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, yes.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_06: So it was around the time that NAGPRA was passed.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_06: So if if uh there's uh anyone out there who finds themselves in a position where they need to uh practice their indigenous uh religious ceremonies that they can always uh look into this act to see if there's anything that they can use to allow them to do that.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because like at one point they were like pulling people out of sweat lodges and and just doing all kinds of shitty things to people.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's also the uh American Indian Religious Freedom Act.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_06: That's the one I'm thinking about.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: 1978 established federal policy to protect Native American rights to believe, express, and exercise traditional religions.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was later strengthened by amendments which specifically protected uh the use of Peyote, and then strengthened again by the broader Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which we just talked about 1993.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, perhaps they could uh reference these as uh as a way to uh gain access to uh materials.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like you said, like an alternative to the cross and uh the crescent and and whatever else is out there, right?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: Israelite shit or whatever the fuck that that Gnosticism Yeah.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Gnosticism.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, hopefully this book finds a way to uh inspire some folks.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_03: And uh how what were we oh we were talking about um some comments, right?
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Some email comments.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_06: We did want to make a note to our listeners who leave comments on Bus Sprout.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_06: Uh those comments we have all we have is access to the comment.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_06: We don't have access to respond to you because it doesn't uh show us your your uh uh contact information.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_06: So we get comments all the time, some uh asking us questions, some making comments that they I guess hope that we respond to, and there's no way for us to respond to them directly.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_06: So if you really want to get in touch with us, um you should probably reach out to us via our official email.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: What is it currently?
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_03: So we've got tales from astlantis at gmail.com.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_03: Is uh the way to the best way to reach out to us.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then we can actually respond to you.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: Or you know what an even better way is?
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you know?
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: What is it?
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's to become a a Patreon supporter.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, that's right.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_06: That's right.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_03: And get in on the Discord and we have conversations there all the time.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_03: So that would and it's a way to promote uh promote and uh support the show too.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_06: So well, do we want to read some of these comments?
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, please do.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_06: So I want to start with the latest one.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_06: This is from back in December, and this is from someone who is in Chicago.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_06: If you're still if you're listening to this and you're uh this individual from Chicago who posted this, please reach out to us via the email that Curly just uh mentioned.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_06: And it says, Hello friends, my name is Manuel.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_06: I recently wrote a book about the Otihuacan, and I would like to send you a copy.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_06: I wrote it in Spanish and I'm currently working on the English version.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_06: I would really appreciate if you could provide me with a physical address to send you a couple of copies, Tlafucalati.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_06: And guess what, Manuel?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_06: I would love this book, so please reach out to us because I'm I I read both English and Spanish, so you can send me either or I'll be content with whichever one.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_06: But I believe currently you probably want the English version, right?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I read Spanish as well.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't speak Spanish, but I can read Spanish.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_06: Well, there you go.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_06: So you want to read the next one?
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_06: You can skip uh the one from Encino because I think that's a good one.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_06: We've got one cut off.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's from Encino, New Mexico, it reads I.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: I nice.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we've got one here from Detroit, Michigan.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I know who wrote these.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it says uh how the hell did we get here?
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's in reference to um an episode we did.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: That was the title of the episode, right?
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um my debates with individuals have always been that these two factors, ideology and theology, have shaped the core of who we are as a nation.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: They, conservative Protestantism, this branch overwhelmingly has been in charge in government politics from day one, believe it provides a framework for understanding the world, their conservative purpose, and their moral responsibilities.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_03: Theology offers existential meaning.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: It tells them where they why they exist and what happens after they die.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: Ideology, whether political or social, guides their actions and choices.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: Without these guiding structures, they would be lost, drifting without values or direction.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_03: In this sense, they don't just influence, and then in parentheses, ignorant conservative Catholics as a nation.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_03: They define it as living the right way, conscious beings capable of reflecting on their existence through only the through only by faith.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: I do agree that the media plays a role in influencing today's issues.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_03: The media in America have never been a neutral conveyor of information.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_03: It has consistently acted as a powerful agent of ideological and theological influence, shaping not only what Americans believe, but also how they see themselves and their nation.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_03: Ultimately, Primo, we are fighting an uphill battle of 80 to 70 percent of the people, and especially the elite conservatives in power.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_06: Well written.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_06: Should I do the next one from him?
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_06: Uh yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_06: So it says this is before he posted this one.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_06: Uh he says, Great show uh episode 80, the Chicano Moratorium.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_06: I was part of the first generation 1974 kindergarten and production of the Chicano movement to learn bilingual subjects in public schools from the 1972 Chicano survey.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_06: A significant research study was conducted in the public school systems of the Southwest, focusing on educational inequalities for Mexican Americans.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_06: A questionnaire survey was administered to a sample of 636 superintendents in Arizona, California, Colorado, New Mexico, and Texas.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_06: So he was um I guess telling us, yeah, I lived through that.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_06: Respect.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_06: Right on, right on.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_06: Let's see, what else do we have here?
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_06: I think we have uh another one from back in June, Denver, Colorado.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_06: They I'll let you take that one, Mr.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_06: Colorado.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite simple.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: It says, Great show.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for reminding us how important our history is.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you for listening and thank you for the kind words, because we really appreciate it.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_06: Absolutely.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_06: And then we have another one from San Diego back also in mid-June.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_06: The Novo Mexicano Mastizo accent experience is so similar to First Nation peoples of Canada.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_06: My family comes from the Acadian, a mixed French First Nation population near Newfoundland.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_06: My great-grandmother came to Massachusetts via Quebec.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_06: Anecdote that parallels the immigrant experience of Mexican Americans here in California, my home.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_06: When my grandmother was in school, the nuns forbid the French language.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_06: See, I didn't know that.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_06: She got hit on the back of her hand with a ruler for speaking French.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_06: But her friend was thrown a f uh down a flight of stairs and broke her arm.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_06: This was in the 19th and early 20th century MAGA question.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_06: So yeah, comparing what they were doing to what's going on today.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_06: But you know, that when I read this comment initially back in June, I was like, wow, I I had no idea that people who spoke French also had that same experience of being beaten down by the nuns or the teachers for speaking Spanish, for instance.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_06: So that that that was kind of interesting.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_06: So Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, everyone.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_06: There's a lot more, but I think we'll leave it there for now.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um and also before we close out the episode today, our final episode for the season, we kind of wanted to take a brief look back at some of the episodes that we did over the course of this season, Curly.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_06: Which one did you find was one of the ones that you really liked the most that we did?
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um honestly, uh I really liked the uh inventing New Mexico's Crypto Jews uh episode.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um I had a lot of fun writing that, researching it.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: And because that's always been one of those things that just gets repeated in New Mexico ad nauseum without any sort of critical analysis or or any look at, you know.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: And some people wrote in and they were like, so are you suggesting that there w there are no Jews in New Mexico?
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or that crypto Jews are are a myth entirely?
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, I'm not, we're not saying that.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um but just that the preponderance of evidence that the majority of information coming out supporting this particular flavor of New Mexican, you know, crypto Jews is largely based on pseudo history and you know, just bad interpretations of historical events.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if you go back and listen to that episode, um I think that comes through.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_03: So if anybody took offense to it, um I apologize.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_03: That wasn't the intention, uh, truly to to insinuate that you know there are no such thing as crypto Jews.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_03: Or that the possibility that uh crypto Jews could have somehow wound up in New Mexico, again, not not what I was saying.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: But Um I I I asked, you know, anybody who had a problem with it, just go back and listen to it again.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think um I think maybe some of these uh criticisms may have been jumping the gun.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and also I think that people they f they get certain feelings uh after listening or reading something that that doesn't sit well with them because of some emotional connection or personal connection that they might have.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_06: And even if there really isn't any implied uh uh negativity on behalf of, for instance, uh ourselves towards the the com the crypto-Jewish community, just the fact that we're discussing it might make someone think twice, like, well, what are they really saying?
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_06: Are they questioning our the identity of these people, et cetera?
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_06: And like, not really.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_06: If you listen to the episode, we just looked at one case and that was it.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_06: Like this individual and what they were doing, and uh kind of as a uh a cautionary tale.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_06: Um really, that's what it was.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, that's the way that I took it uh when when you came when you know sent me the script.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_06: Um, but the one that I liked, and I think is something that's important for all of us, is um the one we did on the hundred years of cosmic racism.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_06: That one right there.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_06: That's a good one.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_06: That one.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_06: I was going back through my notes.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_06: Um, I I forget what I was looking at.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_06: This was like the last not last year, but the year before, and I was like, wait a minute, this book, this book that was written um, you know, about Mestizake and and you know, all this stuff, it's gonna be a hundred years coming up in 2025.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, you know, I figured we should do something about that.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_06: And so that's the origin of that one.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_06: I wanted people to know because going back to this idea of what a Chicano is, right?
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_06: Back in the in the 70s when the term really became a badge of honor, because a lot of people still believe that the term is no older than the 60s, even if they even make it that far back.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_06: They still think it's something from the a product of the 1970s.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_06: But, you know, it's like the even those people still don't understand that that the the term Chicano, not only it's older than that, but that when it was first developed, it was an antithesis to the racist ideology of mestizaje, as you were saying earlier.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, you know, Latinidad and Hispanidad are a product of this whole notion of the mestizo uh ideology that was promoted by all those Hispanistas uh at the turn of the century after the Mexican Revolution.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_06: And so uh I felt like it was it was something that we had to we had to really address to to to uh you know flag that moment in time that really influenced a lot of Chicano scholarship and continues to influence a lot of Chicano scholarship today, this idea that it's an equal mix indigenous and equal mix uh European produces of Chicano.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_06: Like, no, that's not how it works, right?
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_06: Like in fact, you know, we've we've known this for a long time.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_06: Uh even people in Mexico, not just here in the US, but anyone who has uh ethnic Mexican descent generations going back to to connections to Mesoamerica and the Southwest, the preponderance of the DNA that courses through our veins is indigenous, right?
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_06: Like in some cases, up to like 80% indigenous.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_06: Now, is it a mix of other indigenous people?
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but it's indigenous.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_06: And so this mythology, right, of the mestizo identity that's tied to, you know, the cosmic race, like, you know, it's weird.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_06: It's a hundred years down the road, and we're still having to debate this, we're still having to talk about this.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_06: And, you know, you know, it's like, geez, thanks a lot, right?
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_06: Like the legacy Vasconcelos, right?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_06: Like, thanks for that legacy that you and your cohort uh bequeathed, not only Mexico, but like in an infiltrated the minds of Chicanos in the Southwest.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_06: And you know what, to each his own, like the ideology worked and it did its thing at that moment that it needed to, but like you don't have to be stuck there forever.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_06: If you find that that ideology no longer works and operates and does the thing that it needs to do today for us as a community, then it's okay to discard it.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_06: It was just a tool at the time.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_06: And now that we have better information, now that we have better connections to our ancestry, to our culture, um, to who we are as a people, uh, then it's okay to say, yeah, those those guys, the raza cosmica, that that was okay back then, but that's not who we are anymore.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_06: So I encourage people, like you were saying, to really question what it means to be a Latino or a Hispanic, a Mexican-American or Chicano.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_06: Like, what does it really mean to say that you're any one of those identities, right?
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_03: What does it mean when I say you can't be a Chicano and support Trump, but you can be a Latino and support Trump.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember that old um Lalo Alcaraz made that old cartoon that said uh censorship isn't Chicano, it's Hispanic.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm I'm always reminded of that.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then back in the day in the 90s, there was like that that that call, you know, that motto of, you know, soy chicano, not Hispanic, not Latino.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_03: And now it seems like people have forgotten that.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like we have such short memories now that uh everybody's just on their phones all the time and discounting the past and thinking it's not relevant to to what's the same.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_06: It's an inconvenient truth.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_06: That's what it's basically what it is.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's inconvenient to want to not only just identify as in business, but to do anything uh worthwhile to um continue, you know, being a traditional person or tied to traditional ways.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_06: Because we're so like you said, we're so, you know, glued to the screens in front of us.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_06: So what other show did you have?
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh uh Rise Up Walk Out, episode 89, uh Chicano Walkouts or the Chicano blowouts.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_03: I I really liked that episode.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um It's just history, again, like it's important that we know these things.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because if we don't you know, if we have no frame of reference, then people are always like trying to reinvent the will, right?
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_03: Instead of being like, well, people did this before and this is what we can learn from it.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_03: And but now like this whole idea that, well, that's old, you know, they're unks.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, those unks.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_06: Those unks.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_06: My my second one, and then we'll call it an episode, is um, I think the the interview we did with Ken Fetter.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_06: I really enjoyed that.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that was a good one.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_06: It's always great to have uh Fetter on the show, or just even listen to him whenever he's on anyone's podcast.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_06: I make sure that I I listen in because he's he's a fun person to talk to.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_06: He's very knowledgeable.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_06: Um and uh you know he's just a great person all around.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_03: And a great conversationalist, too.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, great conversationalist.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_03: He knows what he's talking about and he knows how to say it.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_06: And I like the fact that he gave uh the podcast a shout out in his latest book.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_06: So kudos, Dr.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_06: Fetter.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you for that.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_03: And with that, ladies and gentlemen, we close out season five of the Tales from Oslantis podcast.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_03: But do not despair, because I have a little surprise for you lovely folks.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_03: I've actually got a handful of dispatches all written up and ready to go to cover what I'm gonna I'm calling the off-season of Tales from Oslantis.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_03: So you'll still get some new content.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_03: And with that, it's like we always wes.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_06: Is this like is this like the off-season?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_06: Is that like saying off Broadway?
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, a little bit.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_06: It's like a little bit you know slantis.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_03: The off-Broadway of Aslantis.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Off slanthis.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Off slantes.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like we always say here about the truth.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's like medicine.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't always taste good, but it is always good for you.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_06: Fuck ice all day and every day.