Latest / Frap Rap with GDogggggggg / Ep 13: Margret Bell (MaBell)

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Ep 13: Margret Bell (MaBell) · Frap Rap with GDogggggggg

• The Mediaocean Podcast Network: Welcome to Frap Rap. I'm your host, Aaron Goldman, aka G, an artist formerly known on AOL Instant Messenger as G Dog with 8Gs. Yes, one through seven were taken. Twenty-five years ago, I was an AE in an ad network called L90, and my biggest client was StarCom IP. Every Thursday, I'd invite everyone in Chicago at 35 West Wacker to meet me at the cozy across the street for coffee. And for each person that came, I'd do a freestyle rap about them. Hence the name, Frap Rap. Each episode I track down another OGIP or to reminisce about the good old days and see what they're up to now. My guest today is Margaret Bell. Ma Bell, welcome to Frap Rap. Hey, so glad to be here. This is amazing. So good to see you. It's gonna be so fun to catch up. ⁓ where are you at the moment, like physically? I am in Los Angeles. Okay. And where are you mentally? Actually, that's a weird question. Hopefully it is time. ⁓ okay, Los Angeles. Are are we in an office? I just see a blank. I'm in my I'm in I am in the office at ⁓ Canvas Worldwide where I where I work, yeah. Cool. All right. Well we will build all the way up to pr ⁓ present day, but ⁓ I always like to start by transporting back ⁓ to IP. And so ⁓ let's do that. We'll go into our like little machine, maybe Rob our producer can add a sound effect. Is that Wayne's World where they did that? Yeah, I think I think that's how they did it. Yeah, yeah. All right. So ⁓ we're starting it. Starcom. What year is it? And how did you get in the door? It is September of 1999. ⁓ I I'm told I was the 21st employee, but who knows? ⁓ the way I got in the door, ⁓ I was a ⁓ just a full time bartender and ⁓ college dropout like long but long before it was cool, right? And, you know, now it's like everyone's so cool to drop out of Harvard and stuff. But ⁓ the roommate of the niece of the woman who owned the bar I worked at owned Patricia Stevens, which was an employment agency. Okay, wait. The roommate of the niece niece of the woman who owned the bar I worked at. was part of an agency. ⁓ owned an employm owned owned an emplo owned an employment agency. ⁓ and I just thought, you know, I can't bartend anymore. It's not for what is going on? And I thought I would just get, you know, like an admin job. I went in there, I passed a typing test. I knew how to use a word processor and spreadsheets. ⁓ and I love the internet. And ⁓ I had some oddly like IBM mainframe coding experience. ⁓ and then so they sent me they said, You're gonna go interview at Leo Burnett. And I said, Is he a nice guy? I mean, like I had no idea. ⁓ and then I I I I I think I was interviewing for maybe like a a local like accounts payable clerk, like local or national television or print. And then ⁓ so I'm interviewing with this woman and I wish I knew her name because I would send her an edible arrangement. She changed my life. She asked me what my media habits were and I said, I don't watch television. I listen to public radio and I read Harpers. But I love the and I use the internet a lot. Obviously, I have just like kicked myself out of any traditional media gig. But she heard she heard internet and said, ⁓ there are these guys down the hall that are doing internet. And then I went through this ⁓ vigorous ⁓ interview process over at Starcom IP, ⁓ which I remember quite vividly. All right, wait, we got all right, let's put a pause in it. And and ⁓ I I I know you pretty well. But I still can't tell if the vigorous was sarcasm or not. So we're gonna come back to that, the vigorous interview process. But first we have to acknowledge that that's gotta be the most circuitous route we've seen. Like, so ⁓ it hasn't aired yet. ⁓ so you won't have ⁓ have heard ⁓ Brojo, Brian Johnson, ⁓ was was our last guest. And his like path to StarCon was literally I knew Tim Harris from college, and he brought me in and hired me. So that's probably the most direct. We had a more indirect path, Mike Ziemens. Mom was a kindergarten teacher. And Jenny and his his kid went to that school and she just is like doling out his resumes, which I love. So that's so that's you know, there's some some ⁓ fractional attribution, but you're you're you're you would break the entire model here to go through that daisy chain of how you got in the door. So that's incredible. And I love that just like internet, you know, was like your qualification. That reminds me of like when Courtney said like she talked about like something else. Except Sold it. ⁓ great, you're higher. Okay. So now ⁓ you walk into Leo Burnett, ⁓ who you thought you'd be actually talking to Leo himself, and they said, All right, ⁓ we're gonna send you down the hall to these internet folks, and you had quote unquote vigorous interview. Tell us about that. So ⁓ I I interviewed with Scott Navarro first. ⁓ keep in mind I hadn't been handed a job description. ⁓ I actually don't think there was one. I first met with Scott Navarro, of course, amazing. He's an amazing person. Then I was sent to meet with PJ McGregor and Steve Governale. ⁓ and I remember Governale was like looking through like a hole they had made in the cube walls. And they were asking me the same questions Navarro did. And ⁓ like so The jobs I had had prior were really like fill out an application, take a drug test, you're hired, you know, like gas station, local library, stuff like that. So I didn't understand why I was being asked the same question by multiple people. ⁓ and then I believe I I I spoke with Chandra. So by the time I got to my final interview with Tim Harris, ⁓ I think I sounded aggravated. You know, like what? Why is this happening? How many times? You know, and then and as legend has it, ⁓ Tim asked me, What do you use the internet for? And this is true. I said, ⁓ I like to keep up on obituaries, and ⁓ and then he asked me how I chose what books I read. And I said, ⁓ it's just, you know, I just kind of get led around by the books. If there's a book and there's a bibliography and I, you know, I love a footnote, I just read the next thing and I just go around. And apparently those are like the two things ⁓ that really were the clincher. ⁓ so incredible. All right. So I can I I'm picturing like this was pre, you know, Google and everything at this point. So it's not like, you know The fact that you looked at like citations, you know, that didn't help like that was not a qualification for like search engine optimization at this point. There was nothing there was nothing. Yeah. And the obituary, I mean, it could just be like ⁓ you know, a you know, bring in people with different interests who can see things different ways. ⁓ but I what I can't understand is why did they all ask you the same question? Was that like did they were they not coordinating or were they trying to see if you like changed your answer at all? I think I think ⁓ my my sense, because this is something that is, you know, famously happens now when you interview, you get interviewed by ten people and they ask the same question. And I think that's what it was. I think they all wanted to ask similar questions to see how I, you know, responded and then just compare notes. That's what I think. I I suspect they were coordinated. I also suspect ⁓ my impression, and this would I guess maybe I'm jumping ahead, was that ⁓ they were just like ⁓ getting things that they had to do, like pay invoices, and they just didn't want to do it. So they they were like, We just gotta we need someone to handle this part. I would also ⁓ throw out that perhaps too ⁓ what they found in you was especially as you got irritated with the questions, you know, ⁓ maybe they needed someone with a little bit of healthy skepticism. ⁓ I don't know if you hopefully take that as a compliment because, you know, if you think about how your role expanded, and we'll get to all of that, ⁓ you know, having sort of whatever side of the brain that is was probably something that that they needed ⁓ to, you know, to to balance us, you know, the The crazy big ⁓ Tim Harrisons of the world with all their new fangled ideas and and such. Potentially. Potentially. ⁓ I actually, so so quick sidebar. ⁓ before so I ended up c ⁓ coming out of school. I think I've talked about this on the pod. With ⁓ I was looking at ⁓ and I did ⁓ graduate, ⁓ but I had a ⁓ offer from StarCom and offer from L90. I didn't get the offer that I wanted at the time, which was collegehigher.com. ⁓ From Trilogy in Austin, Texas. And ⁓ I in that interview process, I went down and they had this beautiful, you know, sort of campus down there, ⁓ Austin, a great city. ⁓ and in each interview, the interviewers coordinated for like a minute or two in between and sort of covered off. So it wasn't that they asked the same questions, but they would sort of build. So I would tell somebody, I would get like the what's your biggest weakness? And I would give an answer and then The next person would throw that back in my face and say, like, so what's really important to us here is that I was like, whoops. so yeah, at any rate, now of course they've got algorithms to, you know, manage the entire process. I would never get another job if if I had a cold call, you know? All right. So here we are now. You've you've passed ⁓ the interview process. What were you brought in to do? And and were you technically hired through the temp agency then? It was an employment agency, so I was not a temp. So I was I was hired by Starcom IP. ⁓ my first title, and this was ⁓ Tim Harris, ⁓ was IP steward. ⁓ I was basically an accounts payable clerk. ⁓ that was that was really the first thing I focused on. yeah. And then ⁓ how did it how did it go and grow from there? Well, ⁓ I was I was I was talking about this last night. ⁓ I was an accounts payable clerk, and this is to jump to one of my favorite StarCom IP memories. I think I'm remembering this right. Anyone can DM me and tell me I'm not. One day I get an email from DoubleClick. There's an image source and an Href in it. I'm like, what the fuck is this? And I ask T Tim. Ben Garvin, anybody who's standing around. I'm like, look at this. What do you and in my memory Rashad we also asked Rashad, but I I doubt he was there. And ⁓ and somebody said, just delete it. If it's important, they'll send it again. Next next thing you know, next thing you know, the entire we're all trafficking. Right? It it was like it went from getting email to tag to ⁓ it it seemed to go very fast, but to running, you know, boomerang campaign for network solutions. ⁓ you know, pulling report there was no analytics team, you know, there was ⁓ Zeman and Google, they were doing research, right? But really the traffic team was the original analytics because they'd be like, ⁓ I need I need to I need a search report ⁓ for Haynes, you know? And I'm like, okay, well, according to these click commands, ⁓ these twenty keywords each got like three to seven clicks. So here's your report, you know? Somehow we've made it now. I think this is gonna be episode twelve. ⁓ I may be off by one when it airs. Without any mention of the boomerang yet. ⁓ so we've broken some new ground. Was that there with double clicks retargeting, right? Yes, yes. And was that basically just that was showing people who had seen the ad before or who'd seen the ad and visited the site? Or maybe both maybe could you do both? Do you remember Well, I know one of my favorite possessions that I got from StarCom IP ⁓ was a URL I had to buy ⁓ probably on like ⁓ Harris's Diners Club. Peggy and and I remember Shelby Seville said Keep it clean, will ya? ⁓ so I bought peggy dash an dot com and I just hold that just because so I think it was Potentially based on purchase. Not all the way to purchase. Not just or or or perhaps we split. I'm thinking of like a sequential marketing. Yeah. But I'm not sure if that was network solutions or something later in in my career. It was just but it was like incredible. Yeah. I think you could do yeah, I think I think you probably could do all those things as long as DoubleClick was tracking it. That became something that you could then retarget by. And then I remember at some point they tried to buy Abacus, right? Who was like head of offline data. And then they were going to try and start retar or to targeting and retargeting based on offline ⁓ demographics, can ⁓ actions, et cetera. That was sort of the holy grail. And I'm pretty sure. That that deal either got blocked by you know for antitrust or it happened and and they were never able to allow to actually merge the data. So the whole kind of thesis of the deal fell apart. They did it. They did they did buy Abacus actually, I think successfully. But I also remember that it kind of at some point things got broken up where double click the network split from double click the ad servers. So, you know, it was out the door. I mean Yeah. And that's where we can make it hope. Yeah, you could hope that you would hit somebody, but you couldn't guarantee that a lot of default ads. Default ads. And so that so when L ninety and double click so double click media and L ninety merged to become Max Online, ⁓ we sold double click the ad server. So they kept ⁓ ad monitor was our ad server, and of course DFA and DFP. And then we took their media network. ⁓ so that was like, you know, Brenda Cone and and all the reps ⁓ selling that inventory. We merged together and ⁓ of course we know who got the better well we got Brenda, but they got the ad server. So ⁓ yeah. At any rate. ⁓ so now, okay. So so you are you go from IP steward to now you're trafficking, which is a thing we didn't even know what we were doing. We didn't know what to call it, but you started doing that. ⁓ what what kind of comes next from there? ⁓ well I mean I ⁓ I I want to mention too that ⁓ you know, I was like the first accounts payable clerk, but then IP started bringing people from within Starcom, ⁓ Brandon Wolfe, Dylan Davis, Yolanda Cologne, Jim Cowie. You know, so we I mean, talk about the Misfit Toys of the Misfit Toys, right? So ⁓ just so you know, and then a lot of people would start like Nick Yucky, John Rafferty, ⁓ A lot a lot of people came through that team and then Yeah. You were like sort of the the breeding ground for for talent, right? So people would come in and and by the way, too, at some point the entry level was actually a temp position, right? So that kind of de-risked a little. You could sort of see if people were were good and stick and then and then they would convert to full time. And then if they did the job well as like a coordinator for a couple of years, then potentially they got farmed out. Is that kind of how it worked? That makes sense. I mean, I left Starcom IP in ⁓ mid two thousand three. So I think, you know, a lot of the things that they in my memory, you were there a lot longer. So I think that just hop speaks to the impact and legacy. So ⁓ kudos. ⁓ but wow, okay. So you left in ⁓ three and at that time what what was your role and and ⁓ where did she go? Was w ⁓ That was I know at some point you ended up ad tech side, but was that the first move or did that come later? No. I think when I left, I think I was called a traffic manager. ⁓ I'm not sure. I'd have to look back at my business cards. But ⁓ with your team had to be at least twenty people, right? By then? In ⁓ in trafficking? Yeah. It's a big group. In two thousand three we had ⁓ Like Kevin Lang was already there. Yeah. Adam Carpenter. Adam. I remember him as ⁓ you know, media planning, but yeah, he was there. Moll Molly I you know what I'm sorry. I you know, Chicago's so small that there's some people where I think, Did I meet you at StarCom IP or at OMD? I don't remember. So I'm not I'm not quite sure. I couldn't really answer that question ⁓ with any amount of accuracy. I don't have one that goes back further than ⁓ two thousand five, so we can't check ⁓ the record. ⁓ all right. So at any rate, so two thousand three, you leave to go where? ⁓ I went ⁓ I went down the street to OMD. That was OMD. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yep. ⁓ and how long were you there for? I was there for four four and a half years. Okay. So that and that was like a pretty the so so the fork in the road for a lot of people in leaving IP at that time was either, you know, to go to OMD, ⁓ who was, as you said, down the street and building a big digital practice, or to go sales side. ⁓ and then you know, and and then sometimes, you know, back again. ⁓ yeah. All right. So then so you were at OMD and then did you get it? Was it was it ⁓ seismic or I remember it's I had a So I had this ⁓ period in my career where I I went to Centro ⁓ yeah with ⁓ you know, Mark Kibben and and ⁓ Hans Tyson and Sean obviously. and you know that was a year and a half and that was like analytics, ⁓ business development. ⁓ and then ⁓ I I had a short stint back at SMG ⁓ But then I went to Simul Media with with with Dave Morgan and John Picone. And I have to be honest, ⁓ what I learned ⁓ from those two roles, which were both, you know, more strategy, big thinking, ⁓ is that I I cannot do that. ⁓ if you said cre you know, create an idea, ⁓ I I see nothing. Right. So I I appreciate the opportunity that Rek Secker and Dave Morgan gave me to try and ⁓ if I may ⁓ f fail at ⁓ at the re at what I was trying, you know. ⁓ it it was great to learn about myself. And then I went to ⁓ seismic, which I think had like three names that for the entire time I was there. Media Mind, DG Media Mind. DG seismic. And then at some point they got bought by Amazon, right? I I ⁓ left. I left before the fire sale. I left before the bankruptcy. ⁓ and you know what happened there was ⁓ Pier 39, ⁓ they bought themselves back. I think they're still private with Alex White ⁓ you know, running that, and then Amazon. did buy the ad server portion. ⁓ and I don't know what else ⁓ what else got bought by Amazon. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ and I remember too, a lot of the ⁓ DCO business came to us at Flash Talk we we were part of Flash Talking at that time. ⁓ and so a lot of the business came over there. a lot of my a lot of my team from Seismic LA went to flash talking actually, which Yeah. Yeah and ⁓ was cool. And many are still here. We appreciate that. What ⁓ and I guess we glossed over two When did you leave Chicago? I left Chicago. I was working at ⁓ StarCong Media Vest group. I was ⁓ scoping dashboards. and ⁓ I left in like January first, 2011. to New York. Was that another okay, ⁓ right. So New York okay, got it. So it wasn't like the the Z-Man like I can't handle ⁓ you know one more day of cold weather ⁓ situation. What what was what was it? I had a s ⁓ well okay, so while while I was at Star Climate P I was invited to like a double click ⁓ conference by, you know, Laura Burkhart, ⁓ Brenda Cone, Nick Cooley, and ⁓ it was my first time in New York. And in my journal, I wrote I have to move to New York. Just need to figure out how to afford it. So for years, for eight years, I just kept trying to figure out a way to get there. ⁓ the irony being is that I was there for two years and then I'm as surprised as anybody, ended up in Los Angeles. But So you manifested it was and was the move st were you still part of S and G at that point? I was. You know, they didn't Yeah, they didn't reload me, but they allowed me to move because a lot of the work I was doing was on Media Vest clients. So like Comcast and ⁓ ⁓ my god, ⁓ Walmart. Wh which were at a media vest. So they were like, actually we'd love it. And ⁓ Off the record, can I do that? Sure, we can ⁓ we can cut this and then we'll come back with like a face that like is so surprising about what you shared. So we'll do a little cut ⁓ and then we'll come back. ⁓ my gosh, that is insane. Too hot for TV. ⁓ and but thank you for sharing it with me. That'll I'll take that to my grave. Okay. So ⁓ we're in so we're in New York. You finally manifested it. And what happened? I you know, I I started working at seismic ⁓ Through an ⁓ Deanne Harvey had introduced me to Andy Ellenthal and odd detail, I remember ⁓ that that ⁓ MediaMind had just bought Pier 39 and it was the day that ⁓ you know, they have a space shuttle in ⁓ New York on display. And it was the day that the space shuttle was being flown in on the back of a 747, and ⁓ Deanne worked downtown at the time or lived downtown, and I went to watch it with her, and all I said was said, I'm talking to Andy later and I said, Tell him to give me a call. And I had never really met him. but yeah, so ⁓ Andy hired me and then You know, I think salespeople always surprise you. What you know what I I'd I wish I could sell, not only for the money, but the things I see salespeople do ⁓ just incredible. And that is not sarcasm. So the sales team out in Los Angeles managed to win our biggest client, seismic's biggest client, ⁓ globally. And ⁓ the office had been, I would say, neglected a bit. ⁓ and ⁓ so, you know, someone came out to New York and was like, We really need help out here. and ⁓ I just kind of said, ⁓ Like I know the agency lead over there. I could go out there and like clean house and ⁓ and then hire someone to run the office. ⁓ and you know, so they did they reload me out here because I thought, when am I gonna get an when am I gonna get an opportunity to move to the other side of the continent to see if I like it? Right. And I came out here and ⁓ it was winter. So this is similar to Zeman. ⁓ it was winter. And I was staying ⁓ on Venice Beach and I looked around and I and you know it's it took a couple of months, you know, getting to know the group and the the business. ⁓ and ⁓ I just, you know, called Andy and and my manager at the time and just said, I've solved both your problems. Like but he I in your mind it w it was just a trial like it was the trial sort of thing. You you didn't move there originally thinking, all right, I've now just, you know, committed to the West Coast. And you were so sort of like feeling it out, and then after a couple months you're Yep, this is it. Yeah. Cool. ⁓ I actually ⁓ tried to move to ⁓ so L ninety's headquarters were in Santa Monica. And so I started of course in Chicago and then at some point Matt Spiegel, ⁓ who had hired me at L ninety He moved to ⁓ corporate and I was like, Okay, you know, help s set me up, you know, talk to the people, bring me out. ⁓ and it was in motion. And this was at this point, wow, this must have been ⁓ one. and just the dot com crash and and L ninety was hit particularly hard. Most of corporate ⁓ kind of got decimated. I was kind of safe in Chicago as like the, you know, the young guy spending twenty dollars a week on Fraps for, you know, StarCon and bringing in The deals. ⁓ so so I made it through. ⁓ and probably had I moved, ⁓ I probably would have would have ⁓ gotten cut, but I ⁓ I mean I still love it out there. And and honest it's still in the game plan someday. Once this nest is fully empty, we're making a break ⁓ for the West Coast. So save me a spot. ⁓ no problem. So how did you end up at Canvas and ⁓ talk a little bit about like current sort of roll and remit there? Sure. So a Canvas, ⁓ I've done another pivot. so now at Canvas Worldwide, ⁓ I am in charge of ⁓ information security, data privacy, and AI governance. This sounds almost like unbelievably earnest, but I mean it like I love the work because I love keeping our employees safe and I love keeping Canvas safe. It's actually it seems like purposeful work. ⁓ you know, which is can be hard to come by. ⁓ you know. So ⁓ the way the way I got this job was ⁓ I worked for Kevin McEvely. ⁓ you might be from from the resolution yeah acquisition perhaps right so it it happened that when ⁓ Sean Finnegan, rest in peace, ⁓ moved to New York, Kevin McEvely had the office next to him. And he's a very loud gentleman. He's got like a booming public radio voice. Yeah, I'm scared. So I got so I got to know him just be just geography. And Kevin and I had talked for years and years and years about how wouldn't it be cool if the IT team at an agency had people who had done media in it and then wouldn't incredible things happen? And we talked about for years and years and years. And then he, you know, got a job running the technology team at Canvas Worldwide. And ⁓ here I am. Incredible. Shout out to Kevin. ⁓ shout out to Kevin, indeed. And just an a another great example of how taking new and fresh approaches ⁓ can create new as you said, not just purpose but also impact. and so that seems to be kind of a A recurring theme for you throughout the the career. So cheers to that. I don't know if you brought a a solo cup ⁓ for our apartment crawl here. No, I have my my banged up ⁓ yum yum donuts coffee cup. Okay. Well that'll do. It'll have to do cheers. Cheers. And mine's unfortunately empty, so I'll just have to take a mop too. ⁓ but ⁓ we're gonna move into the speed round. And so this is named after the apartment crawl from back in the day when we would kinda Go from one to the next and and ⁓ we'll keep it moving quickly. So we always start with this question. This will become the name of the episode. ⁓ what was your AOL and some messenger handle? Well, I have to say I don't remember. And anybody who can tell me, not kidding, I will ship you my tree loot.com ⁓ monkey stuffed animal. ⁓ that okay, so that's what What I worked hard for. ⁓ all right. So ⁓ Let's put that out there. Last time we threw a a a listener challenge ⁓ for that was a jingle contest for Jen Shriver's real estate business. ⁓ Pranov came through. ⁓ Pranov, maybe maybe you remember this one too. What was it not like Mob El or Mobell with some numbers maybe? No. No. Mob Mobell's a whole nother nobody has any idea why I ended up with Mob El and it's pretty good. Do we have to go off track again for that one too? Or no, not really. No. No. At any rate, ⁓ we'll ⁓ so so okay. Well we'll I guess we'll we'll have to figure out how we're gonna name the episode. maybe we'll just give it to Mobell. ⁓ but otherwise ⁓ if anyone does know the aim handle and can well this will air before anybody hears it. So we can always go back retro ⁓ and and add the name in. ⁓ who is your first boss at IP? Tim Harris. Favorite client? ⁓ I would I would say network solutions, ⁓ because it was the first time I got to talk to actually talk to a client. Shout out to Sarah Charbonneau and ⁓ Melanie Mitchell. Love it. and do you remember ⁓ was it like ⁓ you know, were you called in? Was it like a fire drill that when you first talked to them? Like and you had to like explain why something was going wrong, or was it like more of a positive ⁓ type experience? Or if you don't remember, that's cool too. No, I th I It was not a fire drill. Okay, good. The first time was not a fire drill. I'm sure there were people You probably had many subsequent friends, yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure. ⁓ if you could have worked on any account other than the ones you worked on, who would it have been? Okay, nerd alert. While I was there, ⁓ Leo Bernard Starcom was pitching ⁓ the postal service and ⁓ I wanted to work on the postal service so bad, but we didn't win it. So that would that would be my answer. Okay. ⁓ the ⁓ catching up to current day ⁓ agency news, ⁓ there was of course just the ⁓ Pepsi pitch ⁓ was awarded to publicists and so they had to back out of the go pitch. And it just break yeah it's like wild to think, you know, you we've both been on the ⁓ you know behind some of those big pitches and to think about ⁓ you know, b ⁓ of course we would just ⁓ play sort of the agency business card game, like we'll just create a new Agencies that we can hand handle the conflicts. No issue. Just make a new name. Yeah. all right, present company excluded. Who was your favorite vendor? ⁓ I would say, you know, Brenda Cone, Laura Burkhart, Nick Cooley from DoubleClick. ⁓ Deanne Wingate was the first rep who invited me to go to catch. ⁓ and then Maddie Matera May. Absolutely. Amazing people. ⁓ at some point we'll have to get this reunion ⁓ together and then ⁓ the reps can qu qu actually kinda like we did back in the day. ⁓ we would quibble over who's gonna pick up the check. ⁓ if it was opposing in and twenty bucks, I would be ⁓ I got that. Then all of a sudden all of a sudden it's a catch. It's been a two hour, happy hour. I get the alligator arms. ⁓ Brenda, you want to get that one? Hey T Rex. Yeah. ⁓ personal life, family, pets, anything you wanna share? I ⁓ I met my wife. actually at seismic in New York. and I didn't know that she was also going to relocate to Los Angeles. Imagine my surprise. So I've been happily happily coupled up for eleven years. Incredible was this was this a was it a scandalous ⁓ office romance situation? We had ⁓ Mike and Sally un disclosed on the last one. No, I mean we just We didn't reali I I you know, I disclosed to my management and she didn't work for me. So ⁓ and then somebody had loose lips in New York. So everybody in New York found out. ⁓ but no, I wouldn't call it a scandal. Yeah. All right. Very good. ⁓ what are you most looking forward to in the coming year? Can it be personal, professional, anything? ⁓ there's this ⁓ trip I've wanted to take since I was like nineteen. It's the ⁓ University of Chicago. archaeology trip to Egypt. ⁓ and I'm I'm finally taking it in November. That's that's awesome. Very cool. ⁓ we'll look forward to hearing about that. ⁓ we'll close out the apartment crawl round here and now it's time for the Frap Rapport. This is where back in the day at Cozy, ⁓ I'd be doing a f a freestyle for everybody that that came. ⁓ I'd be riffing off of their clothes or what ⁓ counts they were working on. ⁓ or what ⁓ swag I had available to give out at the time. I'm trying to think what ⁓ I should maybe add that to the cooler ⁓ to ⁓ apartment crawl round a favorite piece of swag that you ever received ⁓ because that's always a good one too. ⁓ but how do you want to do this? We could you could either write down some keywords and hold them up. If you got anything any props or anything you just want to put ⁓ into frame here, I can go off of that. How do you want to play it? ⁓ I will write down three words. Okay. Let's do it. Let me know when you're ready. ⁓ in the meantime, we do in post production, queue up the beats. So DJ Rob, cook and kick it. And ⁓ when you're ready, hold up the first word. Okay, sorry, one second. That one is no problem. This is where we can spin the record. Okay, ready? Game on ⁓ hold it a little closer for me. Maybe I'll make the screen a little bigger. Okay. Kicking it off strong. AG in the place to be with my bell, and everybody can see when you throw your hands up in the air, you just sometimes don't even care. I didn't know where she was going with it, but now I think I figured it out. So I'm about to shout and tell all of y'all what it might be all about. Here it is. CPMs were the way we paid. It's how the rep side worked. And when we take it back on the insertion order, then we'd have to ask a few questions before we flirt. No office romance, just a pure relationship, and everybody knows that we're too legit to quit. So we said, hey. I don't know the rate. And they said, hey, maybe that is great. And I said, well hell, I'm gonna make a bet. I'm gonna tell ya all. Is it gross or net? I don't know, but we will disclose. We'll put it in the disclaimer where nobody knows. And so we got all the ads. They might double click. They might even go out of frame. They might go into iframe. I don't know what's my name. Snoop Doggy. Doggy. Snoop Doggie. Dog. Watch out. Mobell. There you go. First time I had ⁓ a guest ⁓ clap to signal that okay, your time is done. Thank you. I needed that. ⁓ iframe was another one. Let's ⁓ we gotta have one more trafficking ⁓ story before we close the pod. All right. God, do I look dead? Is my color like really bad? You look great. ⁓ it's funny. I so I had the window that I was looking at you through kind of really small ⁓ before and then I had to expand it so that I could see what what you wrote down. And all of a sudden I noticed like there's sort of like an aura globe kind of going behind you too. ⁓ so I don't I think it's working. I think the whole thing is is and actually I thought about it ⁓ at first I couldn't quite work it out of my head, but you kinda had this angelic ⁓ thing going. Like it looks like you know ⁓ sort of you got your like wings and you're glowing in heaven and I was gonna do like a rhyme with heaven to hell the Ma Bell. I just couldn't ⁓ crack it enough in real time. But real quick, iframe. So that was where we as like as the ⁓ publisher ⁓ and and in the ad server itself, we would just deliver basically an open space that you took over, right? Isn't that how an iframe worked? Like we didn't even know what you would put in there, and you would just traffic something in and that would populate whatever was in the iframe. Did I get that kind of close? I I mean I think I think so, but I mean generally ⁓ d at my time in in Starcom IP in ninety nine to two thousand three, we didn't really use iframes. ⁓ we only used the image source and the href. Yeah okay. So this so this com this came later. Yeah. I the iframe was always available. We didn't we didn't use it. and ⁓ you also the the eye blaster brought back some memories too. I I had forgotten about that whole progression DG Media Mind all the way you you have the entire kinda ⁓ ad tech ⁓ point roll every yeah all rolled up into one. ⁓ all right well mobel it was great catching up ⁓ glad you're doing well much love and thank you to everyone who tuned in and we'll see you all on the next edition of Frap Rap. See ya You're listening to the Media Ocean Podcast Network. For more of our shows, visit www.mediocean.com/slash podcasts.