Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Howard Lutnick And The Transcript From His Epstein Related Congressional Hearing (Part 10) (5/18/26)

Transcript

Howard Lutnick And The Transcript From His Epstein Related Congressional Hearing (Part 10) (5/18/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
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where we left off with Howard Ludnik deposition in front
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of Congress. Question. I'm going to work through the chronology
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of some of these subsequent interactions between yourself and mister Epstein,
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some of which has been discussed today, some of which
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has not, but I'll try to work through it efficiently.
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A starting question is there was a file in the
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DJ release suggesting that in January of two thousand and
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six a driver named Arnold Garguillo was possibly coming to
0:34
work for you, or at least was interviewing and had
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put Epstein down as a reference. Do you, sitting here
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today have any knowledge or recollection of that? Answer no question.
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In July of two thousand and six, as we discussed,
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mister Epstein was arrested in Florida on charges of soliciting prostitution.
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As far as you recall, were you aware of that
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arrest at the time, Answer no question. Did you ever
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discuss the arrest with mister Epstein, Answer no question. Did
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you ever discuss the arrest with other individuals at the time,
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Answer no question. In June of two thousand and eight,
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mister Epstein pled guilty to stay charges of soliciting prostitution
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and soliciting a minor for prostitution. He was sentenced eighteen
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months in prison, of which he served thirteen months, most
1:21
of which was on work release program. Were you aware
1:24
of mister Epstein's plea deal at the time that's June
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of two thousand and eight. Answer, as I sit here today,
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I don't remember. Question. Do you ever recall discussing the
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plea with Epstein? Answer? I did not. Question do you
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recall discussing the plea with other individuals at the time?
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Answer not that I recall. No question. Do you recall
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when you first became aware of that mister Epstein's plea
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involved a minor? Answer not that I recall. No question.
1:51
Do you ever recall discussing mister Epstein's work release program
1:54
with him? Answer no question. I'm going to introduce an exhibit.
1:59
It'll be minority be I think it's possibly you've already
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seen it today, So I apologize for that. So this
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email is from October of two thousand and nine, and
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we can see that somebody emails Epstein saying that Rich Barnett,
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who we understand was an Epstein employee, said that one
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of your employees approached Barnett asking for Epstein's number because
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of you, mister Lutnick wanted to call or speak with Epstein.
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What did you want to speak with Epstein about? Answer?
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I have no recollection of this question, no recollection at all. Answer,
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no question sitting here today. Any theories or any memories
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that might possibly account for the outreach. Answer may have
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been construction related, but I shouldn't speculate. I don't remember question.
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I will introduce minority Exhibit C. I'll give you a
2:47
moment to look it over. So this is an email
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chain dated March twenty fourth, twenty eleven. The subject is
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Howard Utnik, and it seems from leslie Grov's email, leslie
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Grof says that Howard Lutnik is on an airplane headed overseas.
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His office would like to know if you'd like to
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set up a call while he's away, or if you
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prefer to speak with him on Monday, April fourth, when
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he's back. Epstein received that email and replied that the
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fourth of April was okay. Do you recall what the
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context for this call being set up. Answer. I think
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this is in the context resulting in the interaction I
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had with him at the which I discussed with you earlier,
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which was about scaffolding. So I think this leads to
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that interaction. Does anyone really believe that these two dudes
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were talking about scaffolding? I hate to interject here, but man,
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this reads like a bunch of bs. Question Okay, and
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I'll introduce minority Exhibit D, which is on a similar interaction.
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I can go right to you next time. So this
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is an email chain starting on April fourth, which is
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the day in the previous exhibit that looked like it
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was set for you and Epstein to have a call.
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This email chain here starts with Leslie rob saying, Howard
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Lutnick returns your call. Mister Epstein says, call this tomorrow.
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And the answer to that is will do so weary?
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Those two exhibits together, as there was a call set
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up for April fourth, mister Epstein called you, you returned
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his call. Mister Epstein planned to call you back the
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next day, on April fifth. Is that reading of those
4:20
exhibits correct as far as you can remember? Answer? My
4:23
understanding is he had something to tell me his office call,
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tried to arrange a call, and we had difficulty connecting
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until ultimately he told me to my best recollection about
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scaffolding on May first. So this was all just not
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being able to connect before that time, which ultimately led
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to him telling me about my best recollection about scaffolding
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on May first. So this was all just not being
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able to connect before that time, which ultimately led to
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that question. And do you remember did the two of
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you ever actually speak on the phone in this back
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and forth? Answer? We did not, or I wouldn't have
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need hed to listen to him tell me about scaffolding
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in person. He could have told me on the phone. Question,
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I'll introduce minority exhibit ee. I'll give you a moment
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to look that over. The lawyer jumps in again, Ur Wilger,
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mister adacted answer, Yeah, Ur Wilger, I believe there are
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several documents in between. It's your interview. You get to
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do it however you want. Obviously, I would note though,
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that for the record, there are several other of the
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release files that show a back and forth between Epstein
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and his staff that reveal that there was never communication
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between Howard Utnik. I'm happy to give you the Bates
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numbers after the fact redacted. I appreciate we're aware of
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that paper that you're describing and just looking to save
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you a little paper questions. So you've had a chance
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to look this over. It's an email dated April twenty seventh,
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twenty eleven. It appears to be either from or from
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and to Leslie Groff, who was mister Epstein's assistant, and
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it looks like it lays out a schedule for May first, Sunday,
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May first, And I think we understand, based on earlier
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testimony today that that was the day that you went
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over to mister Epstein's house for the scaffolding discussion. I
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just had some pretty targeted questions. One, did I hear
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correctly your testimony that the word drinks is not accurate? Here?
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Is that right? Answer? That's right question? Okay, so the
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best of your recollection. Did you and mister Epstein just
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sort of sit there, no refreshments, have your conversation about
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scaffolding and that was it? Answer? Right, that's my best recollection.
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I was in his foyer with my dog. Question, do
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you recall seeing any other folks on this schedule while
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you were there, so Woody Allen is listed next to
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his schedule, Soon Yee and some other folks. Do you
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recall seeing any other individual or a prominent individual during
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your visit? Answer I did not see them, and I
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would definitely remember seeing meeting Woody Allen and Soon Ye
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if I did so. I did not see anyone. Question
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did you see any women during your visit who looked
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like they were on the age of eighteen? Answer no question.
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How about any women who look like they may have
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been under the age of twenty five? Answer no question.
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Did you see any images during your visit that were
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either nude or sexual in nature? Answer no, I was
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in his foyer. Question did you notice any video cameras
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in the foyer? Answer no question. Did you see anything
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at all during your visit that was suggestive of sexual
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abuse or was otherwise sexual in nature? Answer say that again.
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Question Did you see anything at all during your visit
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that was suggestive of sexual abuse or was sexual in
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nature at all? Answer no question. Do you recall where
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you were aware at this point that mister Epstein had
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pled guilty to sex crimes involving solicitation of a minor
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Answer I can't remember, but I don't think so. Question
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I'm going to move to your visit to the island
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in December of twenty twelve, and just ask a few
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questions that I don't think have been asked yet about
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that visit. To the best of your recollection, when you
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visited mister Epstein's island in December of twenty twelve, did
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you know at that point that mister Epstein had been
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convicted where I've pled guilty to crimes involving solicitation of
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a minor Answer? I don't remember, but I don't think so. No. Question,
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do you recall having any concerns about visiting Epstein's island?
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You describe the unsettling nature of how the visit got
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started mister Epstein knowing your travel plans. Do you recall
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feeling unsettled from the get go whether you had concerns
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about making the visit? Answer? I just don't remember the
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discussion leading up to the visit. Question do you remember
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the unsettling feeling related to the initial outreach? Answer? I
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don't know that I knew that, so it's unsettling as
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I see it now. I don't know that I knew
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that then. Question. In other words, can you just elaborate
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on that a little bit? You don't know what you
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knew what exactly? Would then? Answer? I do not know
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that at that time, I knew that they had learned
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of my travel plans and started to pursue me. I
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don't know that I knew that at that time. Question
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did you know that the invitation came from Epstein's side,
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whether that's mister Epstein personally or his staff. Answer I
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must have, Well, I don't remember. I must have, And
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how that came to be, I don't know, but it
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must have because it would have never have come from us.
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Question would it be logical to say that it was
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very likely your impression that the invitation came from Epstein
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or his staff, because it would be very strange for
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you to spontaneously invite yourself to Epstein's island. Answer that's right.
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Question Okay, do you recall at the time being confused
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at all about how mister Epstein would have known about
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your travel plans? Answer? I just can't remember anything about it.
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Questions so that unsettled feeling that it's more in the
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present as you read the emails today? Answer right. Question
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do you recall visiting or your visit to mister Epstein's
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island seeking any or seeing any women who looked like
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they were under the age of eighteen other than the
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folks who were part of your party. Answer no question.
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How about any women who looked like they were under
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the age of twenty five? Answer no question. Did you
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see any images that were nude, sexual or sexually suggestive?
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Answer no question. Did you notice any video cameras? Answer
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not that I can recall. No question. Did you see
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anything that you can recall now that stood out to
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you as unusual or concerning? Answer no question. There are
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a few follow ups in the DOJ files in the
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four to five weeks after your visit to the island.
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I can introduce them, but I don't think I need to.
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Where mister Epstein's assistant would send your staff various articles,
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some of them related to gaming legislation in the Virgin
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Islands or the gaming industry in Antigua. Do you recall
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receiving through your staff indirectly? Do you recall receiving any
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outreach of that nature? Answer no question. Do you recall
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during your visit to the island in December of twenty twelve,
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discussing with mister Epstein or anyone else topics related to
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gaming legislation or the gaming industry. Answer no, question you
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may have been asked this. I'm sorry if you were.
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What's your recollection of what we discussed during that visit?
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Answer as our recall, basically, it's inconsequential, meaning nothing. Question
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but you have any recollection of specifically what was discussed? Answer?
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I don't think anything was discussed. I was with I
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was with the crowd of my wife, my friends, another couple,
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and lots of children. It wasn't anything. Question it could
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have been the weather. I'm just asking whether you have
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any memory of what was discussed. Answer no, I have
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no recollection of anything being discussed. Question Okay, well we
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can agree that very likely something was discussed. In other words,
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you and the group didn't sit there in silence as
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far as you remember. Answer, well, discussed. I mean, if
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you said chitchat, I'd go with that. Discuss sounds like
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there was a discussion, which I don't think there was.
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Question No, I mean it. Answer I would say chitchat,
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inconsequential chitchat. I'm sure I would agree with you was
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likely to have occurred. Question I meant in the literal sense,
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in other words, words being spoken in a conversation. Answer
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for sure. Question Okay, do you have any recollection of
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what the nature of that discussion was? Answer? No question.
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Give me a moment. I'm going to show you something
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that the Majority has already introduced and I'm trying to
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find it, so I don't have to introduce a second copy.
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Urwilger jumps in which one was it? I might have
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it right here redacted the UJA email. If you've got it, Turwilger, Yeah,
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let me check redacted number eleven Majority Exhibit eleven. Turwilger, Yeah,
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let me just make sure that's the right. One question.
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There are some language in the email for mister Paulson
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in the second paragraph of the email, so I think
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it's going to be right over there. It starts with
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as chairman of the Wall Street Division, and I'll just
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read the sentence out loud, as chairman of the Wall
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Street Division. I want to make sure that, as a
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close friend of the Luton you're aware of the event
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and have the opportunity to support them. That's the end
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of the sentence. We know that this email, I'm sure
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went to a number of people, one of which was
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mister Epstein's assistant. Would you, at this point in twenty
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seventeen have characterized mister Epstein as a close friend of
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you or your family? Answer no question. Do you have
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any recollection of how that list was formed? Answer no question.
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Is it, as far as you can recall, possible that
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you or your staff provided an initial list to mister Paulson,
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because it would seem unlikely that mister Paulson would come
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up with his own list of what he understands to
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be your network. Answer well, I have no knowledge of
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how he came up with the list. Question. There was
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a discussion of the adfin deal, which we understand to
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be in agreement that was initially entered into you know,
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I'll just introduce that exhibit, because I don't think it's
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been introduced. So let's do that, all right, Tellwerger, thank you, sir. Question.
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I'll give you a moment to look it over. You
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don't need to reach every word. The cover page and
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the signatory pages are probably the focus of the questions.
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Answer okay, questions, So this is from its title page
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appears to be a stock purchase agreement or a series
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a preferred stock purchase agreement for a company named Adfinn Solutions,
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dated December twenty eighth, twenty twelve. At the back of
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the document bates number ending nine to five eight zero
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and nine five eight one. We find mister Epstein as
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well as yourself as signatories to the agreement. When this
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agreement was signed in December of twenty twelve. Did you
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know that mister Epstein was a signatory to the agreement?
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Answer no. Terwilger jumps in before we go forward, I've
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looked at all the documents related to Adfinn and it
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has been widely reported, erroneously over and over that the
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documents were executed in December twenty eighth of twenty twelve.
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I believe if you look into the files, and we
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don't have time to do that today, but I can
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give you and your team the BAITS numbers, you'll see
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that there were multiple executions that happened by different parties.
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So I would prefer to you today that there are
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documents within the DOJ released Epstein files that show that
15:08
when Cantor Fitzgerald Venture Capital signed the documents, it was
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it was much later. Give me one second, I'll give
15:15
you the date it would have been in twenty thirteen
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in spring. I'm happy to get with your team afterwards
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and show you this, but that's been widely I think misrepresented, Redakta.
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I appreciate that. Thank you. Question. So, when you and
15:29
your capacity as president signed the document, let's say, in
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the spring of twenty thirteen, did you know that whether
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mister Epstein was also a signatory to the agreement? Answer no,
15:39
and you should know. I don't think I heard about
15:41
this investment until twenty thirteen. I think the pitch was
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made to me in May of twenty thirteen from the document,
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so it was in December. Question great, at the time
15:52
that you received the pitch ended up signing the agreement,
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did you at that point know whether Epstein was also
15:57
an investor or also a signatare to the agreement? Answer no.
16:02
Question at what point did you learn that mister Epstein
16:05
had been a signatory to this agreement? Answer in this
16:08
process question and preparation for the interview? Answer right and
16:12
well and after the Epstein file showed he was an investor,
16:15
Otherwise I didn't know. Question. And the email chain that
16:19
we looked at earlier from twenty eighteen, where Epstein was
16:22
asking you about the prospects for adfin and you talked
16:25
about this is the year to generate revenue that exchange,
16:28
you did not know during that exchange that Epstein was
16:31
an investor in ADFIN. Answer I do not remember that
16:35
I knew that. No question, okay, And as far as
16:38
you can recall, were there any other communications that you
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and Epstein had with respect to Adfinn that have not
16:44
been discussed here today? Answer no question. Did you have
16:47
any other business or financial dealings with Jeffrey Epstein? Answer
16:51
no question. To the best of your knowledge, did any
16:54
of your assets or any of Kenner Fitzgerald's assets ever
16:58
help finance any of Jeffrey Epstein or in Maxwell's crimes?
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Answer no question. And that question applies to any alleged
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sexual as well as financial crimes. Still no answer. No.
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Turwiger jumps in again redacted. My apologies. I should have
17:14
said this earlier. You made a statement, and I just
17:17
wanted to make sure it's clear for the record. If
17:19
you'd like to ask the Secretary of follow up question
17:22
you asked, did you have any other business dealings with Epstein?
17:25
I think it's I'm not accusing you of mischaracterization. I
17:29
just want to make sure it's clear for the record,
17:31
I do not consider this business dealing with mister Epstein,
17:34
So there cannot be another question regardless of how one
17:38
characterizes ADFIN. I think the question and I think the
17:40
answers are clear. There are no business dealings other than
17:44
ADFIN that, to your knowledge you were Caunter Fitzgerald had
17:47
with Jeffrey Epstein. Is that correct answer? Yes, to the
17:50
best of my recollection. Yeah. Question, and as far as
17:53
we can tell from the public record, the exchange is
17:55
about ADFIN and the Pierre. This is twenty eighteen. Those
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are the last known communications that we have between yourself
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and mister Epstein. As far as I can tell, when
18:07
was the last time that you communicated with Epstein directly
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or indirectly? Answer the twenty eighteen emails that I've seen,
18:14
the one exchange is the only email exchange that I
18:17
have learned about in the process. And I don't recall
18:19
any other question, and that includes not recalling any others
18:23
that might be indirectly through an assistant or staff member.
18:26
Still the same answer answer, I wouldn't have I wouldn't
18:29
have known of them other than through the process. Where
18:32
you've you know, had emails. I don't know. Maybe I
18:35
don't engage in other people's emails. Question and as to
18:39
any communication with Laye Maxwell, you described meeting miss Maxwell
18:43
at an event. I'm sorry, I don't recall approximately when
18:46
and where was that event? Answer Rockefeller Institute. I think
18:50
that's the name, but I'm not certain. It's a research
18:52
institution in New York science and it was fundraising event
18:56
for them. Question and what do you recall about your
18:59
interaction with miss Maxwell at that event? Answer? Nonconsequential, meaning
19:04
just I met her, that would be it. Question do
19:06
your a call who introduced you? If anyone? Answer? My
19:09
best recollection was she was a guest of Leon Black.
19:12
Question do you or did you have a personal or
19:15
professional relationship with mister Black? Answer? I have what I
19:19
would describe as a friendly intermit in a relationship with
19:22
mister Black. Question do you recall I know inconsequential was
19:26
the word that you used, But what do you remember
19:28
specifically about what was said with Miss Maxwell? Did she say, hey,
19:33
it's great to meet you, I know you live next
19:34
door to Jeffrey, or anything of that nature. Answer I
19:37
have no recollection of the word spoken question, did you
19:41
have any understanding of why mister Black and miss Maxwell
19:43
as was it a guest or just the same time
19:46
as her answer? Actually, I don't know question? And what
19:52
year was that event? Lut Nick, I don't know question.
19:54
There's been widespread public reporting that was also discussed earlier,
19:58
the photograph from your visit to me to Epstein's Island,
20:01
the reporting that the photograph was initially included in a
20:04
DOJ release and then it came down, and then it
20:06
was put back up. My question to you is, have
20:09
you had any direct or indirect communication with any administration
20:13
official regarding putting up, taking down, releasing any particular files
20:17
from the DOJ Epstein Database? Answer no question. Have you
20:22
had any direct or indirect communication with any administration official
20:26
about the redaction of any file included in the DOJ database?
20:30
Answer no question. Have you had any director in direct
20:34
communication with any administration official regarding the DOJ's process for
20:38
reviewing and releasing files under the Epstein Files Transparency Act?
20:43
Answer no question. Have you had any conversation of any
20:47
kind regarding the contents of the files that DOJ reviewed
20:50
pursuant to the Epstein Files Transparency Act? Answer no question,
20:55
do you have any knowledge other than public sources of
20:58
how the Department of Justice settled on a timeline for
21:01
releasing files under the Epstein Files Transparency Act. Answer no question.
21:06
Do you have any knowledge other than public sources of
21:09
how many files the Department of Justice has reviewed but
21:12
withheld under the Epstein Files Transparency Act? Answer no question.
21:18
I'm going to ask a few questions. We're getting to
21:20
the end here. I'm going to ask you a few
21:22
questions about President Trump. Some versions of them you may
21:25
have been asked, others you have not. The firstly, how
21:29
long have you known President Trump? Answer more than thirty years.
21:32
Question how did you originally meet? Answer I don't remember.
21:36
Question did you ever have a conversation with Jeffrey Epstein
21:38
or Glenn Maxwell about President Trump? Answer no question. At
21:43
any time when President Trump was a private citizen, were
21:46
you president for a conversation about Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn
21:49
Maxwell where Trump was then Donald Trump was also present
21:53
for In other words, were you ever in his company
21:55
where Epstein or Maxwell were discussed? Answer no question. At
21:59
any time when President Trump was president, did you have
22:02
a conversation with him about Jeffrey Epstein or Glenn Maxwell
22:06
tour Wolger. As we talked about before, we're not going
22:09
to answer questions under executive privilege, or we're here to
22:13
answer your questions. We're not going to violate executive privilege question.
22:17
And that was a clarification from me, whether it was
22:20
just wanting to answer or whether it was an executive
22:23
privilege assertion. The other lawyer jumps in, Mayron, there's a
22:27
process for you to go through if you'd like to
22:29
see that information, and I'm happy to talk with you
22:31
afterwards if that's something you want to pursue. Question. Yeah,
22:36
just the question here is whether it's on an executive privilege.
22:39
But I understand that the question is not being answered.
22:41
I got that, But I'm just asking whether it's an
22:44
executive privilege basis or choosing not to answer the question. Tourwolger,
22:50
I have not gone through the formal process to do that.
22:52
Let me rephrase my objection. I think it's been asked
22:55
and answered. Question Apart from public reporting, do you have
22:59
any director in direct knowledge of the nature of the
23:01
relationship between Epstein and Donald Trump? Answer? No. Apart from
23:05
republic reporting, do you have any direct or indirect knowledge
23:09
of whether President Trump was ever aware of Jeffrey Epstein
23:12
or Glenn Maxwell's crimes prior to the crimes becoming public?
23:16
Answer no question. To your knowledge, were your connections to
23:21
Jeffrey Epstein or any interaction that you had with Jeffrey
23:24
Epstein ever discussed or examined in the course of your
23:27
nomination or a vetting process for your current position? Answer?
23:31
Please ask me again. Question to your knowledge, were your
23:34
interactions with Jeffrey Epstein ever discussed or examined in the
23:38
course of your nomination or a vetting process for your
23:41
current position? Answer? I don't remember that. No question. You
23:45
have no recollection of that happening? Is that correct? Answer?
23:48
Right question? Were you ever questioned by any law enforcement
23:51
agency in connection with an investigation related to Jeffrey Epstein
23:55
or Glenn Maxwell? Answer no question. Okay, let me ask
23:59
it a different way. Do you know whether that person
24:02
whose resume was sent to mister Epstein's staff was one
24:05
of the nannies who accompanied your family on your visit
24:08
to his island in December of twenty twelve. Let me
24:14
add exhibit number g Terwilger. Thank you. Question. I'll give
24:19
you a second to look that one over. So you
24:21
can see here this appears to be a resume of
24:24
an individual. That individual's name is in the subject line
24:27
in the body. This is from Richard Kahn, who was
24:30
on Epstein's staff. In the body, it's as attached as
24:32
a resume of Lutnick nanny to your recollection. Name in
24:36
the subject line. Is that the nanny who accompanied you
24:39
on the trip to mister Epstein's island? Answer, I don't know.
24:43
Question do you possess any communication documents or other material
24:46
related to Jeffrey Epstein or Glen Maxwell that are not
24:50
already publicly available? Answer? Do I possess no? Redacted? Question?
24:55
And then I think we had a few more questions
24:57
from a member, right Anzari, I'm fine. Question okay. Then
25:01
I will ask you, is there anything else that you
25:03
would like to share with the committee before we go
25:06
off record? Answer? Just a small thing, which is that
25:09
I don't grow a beard until after mister this individual
25:12
Epstein was dead, so that maskcat you showed me, I
25:15
never had a beard before that question. I got it
25:19
answer and I never had to go to either. So
25:21
I just wanted to say that these things are not
25:23
possibly about me redacted. Those are clear on the transcript.
25:27
Thank you, We will go off record. Well, I have
25:30
to say, now that we've taken a look at the
25:32
transcript for ourselves, I don't believe a word how our
25:35
Lutnik is uttering. So we're gonna wrap this one up
25:38
right here. But you better believe there's going to be
25:40
a post mortem for this interview we had with Congress.
25:45
All the information that goes with this episode can be
25:47
found in the description box.