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B2C Best Practices for B2B SaaS GTM · Sales Pipeline Radio

0:16
Matt: All right.
0:16
Welcome everybody to another episode of Sales Pipeline Radio.
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My name is Matt Heinz.
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Super excited to have you all here for our latest episode.
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Well, we're going to get into it here in a minute with our guest Kyle Hamer.
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Excited to have you here, man.
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First, before we do that, If you're listening and watching
0:30
on demand, thank you so much for downloading, for subscribing.
0:34
Every episode of Sales Pipeline Radio can be found past, present,
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future at salespipelineradio.
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com.
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Excited to have our guest today, Kyle Hamer.
0:41
We're going to talk a little bit about B2C sales and marketing
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and how that applies to B2B.
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first of all, welcome to Sales Pipeline Radio, maybe just for
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those that you don't know you, maybe just a quick introduce yourself.
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Kyle: Hey, yeah.
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Well, thanks for having me, Matt.
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I'm super excited to be here.
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As we head into Memorial Day weekend for those that are listening, thanks
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for those of you families, service members, or otherwise that have
1:03
sacrificed for Matt and I to be here and have this conversation.
1:07
Somebody had to pay for that and we'll remember that this weekend.
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To our active members who've put their job on the line, put their life on the
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line, put their family on the line.
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Thank you.
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I'm happy to be here.
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I'll describe myself like I described myself everywhere else.
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I'm a sales and marketing mutt.
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I'm not quite sales.
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I'm not quite marketing.
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People don't know what to make of me.
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But I think that allows me to provide a unique perspective on
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go to market revenue engines.
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And I'm now in my 10th year in marketing leadership role inside
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of software organizations.
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You know, working for a company called hh2 and we are taking over construction
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back office, software as a service.
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We've got a platform to make life easier for those of you that are
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contractors and I think what we're going to talk about today is really
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relevant as we look at humanizing the B2B sales and marketing motion.
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Matt: Yeah, I love that you bring both the sales and marketing
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approach to this, because I think sometimes we tend to compartmentalize
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those way too much in B2B.
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We think of those as different functions, part of one
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integrated go to market motion.
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Your prospect doesn't care what your org chart looks like.
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So there's one.
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And two, I think, we tend to operate in our own echo chamber.
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And think that we know what we're doing all the time in B2B when there's an
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awful lot of lessons to be pulled from a variety of different industries.
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I had a great conversation there last week with someone in the chemical space.
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And the way that folks in the chemical space do marketing is
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completely different than how a lot of software companies do it.
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And I would argue is a far healthier, more productive way.
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We can get into that later, but I think the consumer space, the consumer
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marketing that we see all around us we tend to say, Oh, that's different.
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You're marketing to consumers.
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I market to businesses.
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I market to buying committees.
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My lot sales cycle is long and complex.
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Yes.
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And I think there is a lot we can learn from what we're
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seeing work in the B2C space.
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Talk a little bit about why that's such a passion for you in sales and marketing.
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Kyle: Well, it's a passion for me because I think at the end of the day,
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transactions happen on a human level.
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And I don't think it's B2B marketing.
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I don't think it's B2C marketing.
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I think it's H2H market.
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It's human to human sales and marketing.
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you bring up, well, my sales cycle is like 18 months.
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Gotta be honest with you.
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How long have you been thinking about buying a new car, Matt?
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Matt: it's a long time actually.
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Yeah.
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Kyle: You think about it forever, right?
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And yet car companies continue to invest in their advertising, their marketing
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efforts, whether it's for a new Rivian or the Tesla, they're always spending
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money and investing in capturing your mind-share, your attention.
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Well, that sales cycle, even though it feels like it's a marathon, the day
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you actually walk into the dealership, that sales transaction is facilitated
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by months and months and months of H2H marketing in a B2C environment.
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And folks are like, well, that's not really relevant.
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I think it is right.
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I got to understand what kind of car I want.
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What am I trying to get?
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what are my needs?
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All of the same stuff that's relevant for a B2B conversation.
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Your, consumer goods at the high level, your house, your car, they have to
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consider all of those things as well.
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And I think there are some really valuable lessons for B2B marketers.
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If we stop thinking about, well, it's my company marketing to their company
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and it's-- no: it's I'm marketing to you based on how you might buy or how
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you might think about this experience and what do I need to do different?
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Whether it's digital, print, online, offline, sales, voicemails, et cetera.
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If you stop thinking about it as my business to your business and you start
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thinking about it's me to you, I think it'll fundamentally change how we go
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to market as a B2B marketers today.
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Matt: So, so many different angles we can take on this.
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One that's super interesting to me is we tend to think B2B
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decisions are made logically and B2C decisions are made emotionally.
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And I don't think you can separate those in either scenario.
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I feel like the emotional connections, whether it's just based on the heart
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versus the head or based on humor, I feel like B2B marketing in general gets a
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little too stale and a little too formal.
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What are some examples of how we can bring that more of a fun, emotional construct
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from B2C marketing into the B2B space?
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Kyle: Oh, that's a good question.
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And I think that it's very dependent on the products and or services
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you're selling in a B2B environment.
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So you mentioned earlier chemical or Industrial.
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Matt: So industrial, chemical, energy, if I'm dealing with stuff
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that could be commoditized or you think, well, I can buy it anywhere.
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That's one set of complex problems.
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And then you gotta look at what's my consumer relevant?
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An example of that might be cereal, right?
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So we need to see how is cereal marketed versus how am I marketing my chemicals?
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Or how am I marketing my paint or whatever it may be like.
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You definitely have a relevancy there, but I think for, at least for me and
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where I'll stay in pocket for the conversation today is, is really relative
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to software and what we see in that space.
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I have the most experience there and I don't want to speak out of turn as it
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relates to some of these industries where the marketing cycle, I think is a little
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more complex, but from a SaaS standpoint, one of the things that I think is the
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great equalizer happening in the market right now is the democratization of
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content, the democratization through AI scaling up content, creating personalized
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experiences, being able to leave a digital footprint that really allows your customer
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or prospect to have a great experience and to learn over time is, is valuable.
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I've seen a lot of companies over years, Matt, invest tons and tons
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and tons of money on top of the funnel thought leadership content.
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But they use that only to bring them in to introduce them to the company.
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What if instead of building content, talking about the company or
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talking about the big ideas, we were talking about the emotional impact.
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What if we talked about how our software allowed Billy's dad to get home sooner
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and watch the baseball game on Saturdays or allowed Suji to make sure that she
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didn't miss Sally's dance recital anymore.
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The thinking fundamentally has to shift in what value am I driving to the other
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person on this other side of this message, this content, the screen, et cetera?
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And we've, got incredible tools in front of us, but now I think
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we need to think different.
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Talking today on Sales Pipeline Radio with Kyle Hamer, he's
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the of marketing for hh2.
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We're talking about B2C best practices in B2B.
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You know, one of the other angles I think is really interesting is we tend
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to create these, what I assume are sort of artificial made up lines between
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different channels that we expect are consumer channels or B2B channels.
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Like, sometimes you'll see someone write something kind of personal on
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LinkedIn and people will be like, oh, that's, I can't believe they
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brought that into this channel, right?
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Same thing for Instagram.
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It seems like if everyone's doing scrolling, like why, if that's
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where people are, why can't you have a B2B presence there?
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Now it might be weird if you were to say, "Hey, I know you were
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list looking at cat videos, but have you thought about replacing
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your servers, in the data center.
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I mean, that would be kind of jarring, but I think there's still a way to
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leverage the channel and its natural proclivities to create relevance.
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Do you think that that distinction between channels and B2B versus
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B2C does exist, should exist?
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And how do we play that?
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Kyle: Well, it's an interesting juxtaposition and I'll use
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an example from last night.
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So there's a company B2B that's been recruiting me for a while in my position
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at hh2, not to go work for them, but to come check out their software.
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And the name of the company is Influe2.
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Last night I'm laying in bed watching Netflix with my wife and she goes,
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"why am I getting an ad for hh2?"
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asking me questions about why she would potentially be getting targeted.
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Now their ad is talking about, hey, do you want to know how we retargeted you?
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They're much more into the X's and O's of how they ran the play.
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But they could have taken that one step further and, based on the
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time of day, just said, "enjoying watching show with your husband?"
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Could you have taken to the next personal level?
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Could you have said, Hey, it's likely that you're watching this
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show, you know, whatever it may be, there's a way to create that personal
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connection that now I'm really curious about how your software works.
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How did you retarget?
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How did you do those things?
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And from a channel standpoint, yeah, I think it matters.
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I think it matters because, we looked at LinkedIn as only professional.
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We look at Twitter as kind of all just the dumpster fire of the internet.
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We look at our website as the place where we go to church and where we, we have
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to be the most pristine, but I think the reality is your customer and prospect just
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wants to have a very human experience.
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So can I find what's most important to me or relevant to me very easily?
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Question one question two is, is as you're having those messages, are you
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adding value and progressing me forward?
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Are you helping me feel a certain way, experience a certain thing, or
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are you just giving me education?
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And I think sometimes in B2B, we give you this dry, boring and, I
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say this with this caveat or this exception, it's dry, it's boring and
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we make marketing B2B emotionless.
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Well, you can make it too clever so that it's no longer clear, but if you focus on
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a clear message and you make it emotive.
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Each channel should build on the other.
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So it's about 2017, I was working with our team and we built a B2B campaign
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where when we reached out, we reached out and it was a story based email and
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we called the campaign Sleeping Chris.
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And it was the story of a person in their early thirties they'd
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just come into this position.
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They were working around the clock in order to help the company grow and
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they were emotionally exhausted, right?
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And because of this: Are you tired of missing out on key family events?"
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And we used Billy's baseball game.
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"Are you tired of missing your son's baseball game in
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order to accomplish task X?"
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That was the question we presented.
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Well, when we sent that email out, I think we had, I want to say it was like
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a 30 or 40 percent open rate because we tried to tie the subject line to
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something that would be emotional.
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When we got it to open, there were guys that were already in the sales
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process who called up and were upset by the email, thinking that we had
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taken their personal story, wrapped it into a marketing email to help them
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actually progress their sale forward.
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We used Chris, which was hit this person's son's name
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Matt: in order to
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Kyle: drive it forward.
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And so again, seven years ago for me, it was kind of the early
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indication of, "Oh, maybe, maybe B2B isn't really where it's at.
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Maybe it's really more about creating that emotional connection,
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whatever the channel is".
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Well, for that particular campaign, email told the story.
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Then you had all of the imagery that was reinforced for four to six
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months in everywhere that somebody went with retargeting, the channel,
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the website, the trade show booth.
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And before you knew it, we went from a 3 to 4 percent growth rate.
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So somewhere just shy of 22 percent in our bookings.
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We didn't change our product.
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We just changed how we talked to the market and instead of treating them like a
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department, we treated them like a human.
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Matt: I think B2B companies can have a personality.
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Like you can have a perspective.
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You can have, you can not take yourself too seriously.
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You can have a sense of humor.
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But ultimately people don't tend to have relationships with buildings and brands,
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well, people do have relationships with brands, but I think that that's
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based on a personal relationship.
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And so I want to talk about like the importance of personal relationships
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as part of this, and how do you think about the brand, the company versus
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the people in the company and how do you best leverage that, like, are there
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lessons from B2C on that, or to your point, like, what are some ways that
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more companies can think about that at a more emotional, personal level,
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similar to the story you just told.
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Kyle: Well, I'll use another recent story.
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An organization that I did some consulting with in the last couple of years, they had
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what I would call a a typical B2B customer service experience, which if you buy
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software today in B2C, guess what happens?
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You go into a queue, it's only support via chat or email.
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Like getting somebody on the phone is really tough.
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Well, if my Facebook's not working, I'm probably not going to change
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my life, but if my bank account's not working, I can't get ahold of
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somebody that's really frustrating.
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Right?
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So when you think about brand experience and what people have B2B,
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oftentimes what I see is, is that we only look at the relationship as the
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transaction of what are we doing from a marketing standpoint on the front end?
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Or what are we doing or what are we saying to the market?
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How are we positioning?
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How are we messaging versus what is each interaction look like for my company?
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And for a lot of B2B companies, one of the easiest ways to humanize and
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create a great brand experience and pleasurable memory is, is your support.
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Is it easy to get somebody on the phone?
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Can I get my question answered?
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Well, organizations oftentimes ignore that operational component because
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they're only thinking about how can I add more versus how can I create a better
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experience for those that are here?
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And, and so when you think about brand and going B2C, B2B actually has some
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advantages where I'm not going to have the same volume of consumers calling in.
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So it's okay for me to have a phone line.
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Maybe it is okay for me to have an answering service that picks up.
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And it's our goal to have answer every third ring, right?
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So if you have a problem in your moment of need, my brand will be there.
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You think about from a B2C standpoint or even an H2H standpoint, if I can trust
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an organization to have my back so that when I show up or I have a problem, I
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emotionally like, Oh, this is a pain at this moment, but I'm going to call, I'm
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going to go reach out to this other human, like, I'm going to have peace of mind.
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I'm going to have a high degree of trust.
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And that's going to force me to become an advocate that's going to force me
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to have a certain set of experience or feelings towards the organization.
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And that forced movement will transform your brand over a period of time.
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And so I look at one of these organizations that I was working at;
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when I first got there, they didn't have an easy way for their customers
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to call in and get ahold of them.
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And when you come in, it was like, well, okay, how do I submit a support ticket?
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Oh, you send an email.
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Well, what, what's required for me in the email?
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Well, you got to have all of these things.
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Well, how many times do you go back and forth before you get all
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those things on the support ticket?
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Oh, it's usually four or five times.
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Okay.
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What's the first interaction from you?
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Well, the first interaction says, "thanks.
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We've received your support ticket.
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Please allow 48 to 72 hours for us to reply."
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You think about it, right?
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I'm in a moment of need.
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I'm frustrated.
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I need some help.
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And you say, "Hey, it's going to take me two to three days to get back to.
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You wouldn't do that anywhere else, right?
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You call the plumber and you're like, Hey, it doesn't take me
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two to three days to get here.
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Yeah.
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But my toilet's overflowing right now.
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Business to business, same thing.
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It's a human to human interaction.
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When you talk about brand, you talk about going to market, you're going
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to create advocates for who you are, one human to human experience
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at a time, not at a global scale.
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It's just going to positively reinforce that message that's going out.
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Matt: Yeah, I love it.
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I think we're going to wrap up here in a second, but I think that one of the
15:35
other things that's really important for people to think about differently
15:38
in B2B is the difference between a transaction and a relationship.
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In the B2C space, you see people thinking about a long term relationship
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with a customer or with a prospect.
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And I think in B2B, we tend to think about these sort of transactional
15:51
moments, like, "Oh, I got a two year sales cycle and I'm going to close them".
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Right?
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And it's okay.
15:55
But like, then you've got them as a customer and maybe they move to
15:58
another company or maybe that company changes and their needs change.
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And so I think about that at an individual level, because even for us, like small
16:06
consulting firm, we track repeat clients.
16:09
We also track what we call repeat executive sponsors.
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If a CMO hired us at their last company and they bring us into the
16:15
new company, that is a big win.
16:17
And that speaks to a longer term relationship than just the account
16:21
I'm trying to transact with.
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And I think that relationship level is critical.
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And I think that, the more we automate, the more we digitize our marketing and
16:31
sales and B2B, the more important those relationships are, the more important
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is for us to think about that long term relationship as a differentiator.
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Kyle: Well, and I think it's probably a bunch of platitudes to say, well,
16:42
"just listen to your customers", right?
16:44
I mean, everybody says that, but at the end of the day in the B2B space,
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I think the more you listen to the customers and the more you curate your
16:52
content, the more you answer their questions, the more transparent you
16:56
are the higher degree of trust you're going to generate in that relationship.
17:00
And if they can trust you, they'll be back regardless of
17:03
what organization they're in.
17:04
Right.
17:04
I look at brands like 6sense.
17:06
I look at HubSpot, I look at Salesforce and what they've done a good job of is, is
17:11
being consistent in their brand over time.
17:14
What I think HubSpot's doing a good job of personally is, is taking content and
17:19
forcing marketers in how they structure things, how they're thinking about their
17:23
digital environment, to think much more about that human to human interaction.
17:27
What is most important to me?
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What questions do I need to ask?
17:30
And then curating the experience so that it's easy and simple for
17:35
somebody who want to come back and do business with you again.
17:37
Matt: Well, and to that point, as we wrap up the sales and marketing effort
17:41
is one thing, what you're talking about is experience, not just with
17:44
your marketing, with your content, but experience with your product.
17:47
That is part of your brand.
17:48
That is part of the relationship you have.
17:50
And I think as go to market leaders, as marketing leaders, as go to market
17:54
As go to market leaders, we need to think about that product as just as
17:57
important, if not more important part of the overall experience and through line.
18:01
Well, Kyle, thank you so much for joining us.
18:03
Kyle Hamer, the SVP of Marketing for hh2.
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Fun conversation.
18:06
If you missed part of this, you can catch it on demand
18:10
salespipelineradio.Com very shortly.
18:11
Thanks everyone for joining us.
18:13
Have a wonderful holiday weekend.
18:15
We'll see y'all next week.
18:16
Kyle: Take care.