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Episode 127: The Little Things: Becoming a Complete Baseball Player · Dugout Dish Baseball Recruiting Podcast powered by EMD Baseball

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hey, parents and coaches, are your kids using the right glove? The most important skill for youth athletes to learn is how to play proper catch. The problem is most youth gloves are made with bad leather and are too big for small hands. They actually make it harder to play catch. That's why former Major League Baseball shortstop Kevin Smith created Cali Gloves. Cali gloves are crafted from 100% Japanese kip leather and are the perfect size for kids. All Cali gloves come with palm slits, finger loops, and elastic wrist lacing that encourage proper hand placement. The right closing patterns and give kids more confidence to go make plays. Cali Gloves even allow parents to break in the glove without stretching out the fit. It's the glove Kevin wishes he had growing up and the glove all his teammates want for their kids. Visit caligloves.com to learn more and help your kids play better catch. That's Cali Gloves. K a l I gloves.com welcome to.
• 1:10
  Speaker B: This week's edition of the Dugout Dish podcast. I'm Andy Kitti, joined by my wonderful co host, Keith Glasser. How we doing?
• 1:17
  Speaker A: Great. How are you?
• 1:19
  Speaker B: Good. Before we get started, I want to shout out my hat. For those of you who are not listening, it's the Tottenham spurs hat busting it out in honor of Mr. Sun, who is departing the spurs after a legendary career. It's a sad moment for spurs fans, but that man brought a European trophy. Outstanding human being, class act. The European soccer world is in tears that he'll be leaving for the mls. But just a quick shout out and we're getting towards spur season. Coach Glass. And I know you're a. You're a fan on the brink of true fandom, so I'm excited for you. I'm excited for you this year.
• 2:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's.
• 2:07
  Speaker B: You rolled the road. You rolled the roller coaster with me and Eric.
• 2:11
  Speaker A: Not as I'm not as upset as you might be, but. Yeah, no, it's. It's a big deal. It is a big deal. Although, just to make fun of you, I'm not sure how people who are listening can see your hat either. I think you. You might have wanted to say, those of you who are not watching.
• 2:32
  Speaker B: Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, you're right. Correct. I stand corrected. For those of you who are not watching on YouTube, it's a. It's a beautiful gray spurs hat.
• 2:43
  Speaker A: So great. Looks white.
• 2:45
  Speaker B: Well, I'm thinking the silver. Silver. Silver.
• 2:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, silver. Silver does it for me.
• 2:52
  Speaker B: All right, enough about the Spurs. So today we had a couple conversations with coaches. We had A couple observation at some games that we were at this weekend that brought up a conversation that me and you had this morning and I think we want to TBD on the title. We're still working through what the title of this podcast will be, but essentially what we want to dive into is the little things, the details that coaches pick up on when they're evaluating players. And one of these individual details on its own might not be the difference maker, but the accumulation of some of the stuff that we're talking about oftentimes can tip the scales in a player's favor during the recruiting process. I think you have a better gist of what I'm trying to describe as we start to unpack some of this. So I'm going to kick it over to you to start with a conversation that you had with a coach regarding a pitcher and his ability to do some things that clue a coach into that kid's probably ready to make the transition to college. And then we can unpack that a little bit, see where we get. And I want to talk about a couple things that I saw this weekend that I think fit right into that category. So sure.
• 4:19
  Speaker A: I saw one of our guys this past weekend for the I don't even know how many times I've seen him throw. But that being said, it is incredibly evident in watching him that he can feel this position, he can hold runners, he's quick to the plate, he works quick in between pitches, all things that indicate that he is a guy who is ready at the very least to be recruited seriously at the collegiate level. And what I mean by that, you know, it's not just what I saw, it's what other people have seen. But I've obviously paid attention and seen this stuff quite a bit over the course of my 16 year coaching career, you know, but you know, a lot of times, and I, I think we've fallen into this, this pattern, especially in recent years. And I don't necessarily know, you know, if it's right or if it's wrong. But the, we've fallen into the, the Velo, I don't want to say trap, but we're chasing Velo way more than we have in the past. And I get it right, like no one has ever been fired and I'm stealing this from somebody, but nobody has ever been fired for recruiting a guy who's 93 to 96 and we think we can get him to throw strikes and excuse my dog, I'm sorry, something's going on outside that we're, we're investigating to protect this household. The but people have been fired for recruiting a guy who's 86 to 88 who can really pitch and doesn't necessarily get any better and doesn't really, you know, produce at that level. But there's more that goes into you becoming a college pitcher and being recruited than just what your velo is and can you spin it or not? And the kind of hype that you get via Twitter and Instagram and other, you know, recruiting sites that, that put things out for guys and a lot of it comes down to the little things. And that's the difference maker when you get to college, right? It could be the difference maker in whether or not you get recruited. But if you're 93 to 95, chances of you landing on a college campus is pretty high. But what's going to separate you when you get there to actually be able to pitch? And a lot of those things boil down to can you field your position? This isn't. We've talked about this on a myriad of different podcasts. We've talked about it in interviews. We've had other coaches say this. You know, basically, can you feel your position? You know, if you can't field your position, it's going to be really hard to put you in a game, especially at the back end of a game, because we can just bun on you and you're going to throw it away or not be able to field it. And it's just going to be a merry go round on the basis can you hold runners? And that's simply, that's, that's not just can you pick to first, you know, can you vary your looks? Can you vary your timing? What, what are you to home? Can you slide step, do you knee knock? What, what does that look like? Because if you're just going to be a 1-7-18-19, like you cannot pitch at the college level if you're going to be a 1 7. I would argue if you're a 15 and a half, six and above, like you can't pitch at the college level in high leverage spots because they're just going to take basis all day long on you. No one's going to have an opportunity to be able to throw anyone out, you know, so I, I think sometimes it like there's so much that has to go into this game and, and what's being taught at lower levels and I, I'm not here to, you know, call anybody out, but they're, they, there is a lot of those things are Either A, or not being taught or B, not being discussed, C, not being capable of doing it. And all of those things can become hindrances to you in the recruiting process. Because if I show up to watch you throw and you're just a 18 to the plate all day long with a guy on first, I can't put you, I can't legitimately recruit you and put you in a game. Now, are there caveats to that? Yes, there is. We talk about this all the time. If you're athletic looking and you move well, I might think that I could get that I can fix that and get him to be lower home, getting to home so that we can have a chance in the running game. But if you can't do that, the likelihood of you being able to pitch a lot in college is slim to none. Now, if you want to go be a 18 and you don't allow anyone to ever get to first base, then, hey, the point is moot. But the likelihood of that happening is very, very low. And I think it's things that, you know, we've, I don't think we've ever, in our 220plus episodes, I don't think we've ever kind of dove into the little things that, you know, we've done it on podcasts and interviews, talking about stuff. I don't think we've really, like, dedicated a podcast to talking about these things. And I think a lot of the stuff we're going to cover tonight, like, it's just, it's the tip of the iceberg of things. There's so much that goes into this, and a lot of this also comes down to you actually learning this when you get to college and playing at a higher level and things that you, the nuances of the game that, you know, I, I probably miss the most in not coaching. But things like that matter. And to think that they don't and to think that, you know, it, you know, it doesn't matter what, you know what your, what your time to home is. It doesn't matter if you can hold runners. It doesn't matter if you can mix timing or looks or what it might be like. It does matter because it might not matter for you in the recruiting process. Like your coaches might tell you it doesn't matter. But it's going to matter if you get to a college campus and all of a sudden you're the 15th guy on a 15 armed staff because you can't do any of those things and you can't throw in a game because that, like, that's a legitimate thing. It happens every year, and it's going to be like, well, what do I do now? Well, you have to get better at these things. And if you're not capable or you're not willing to, you're going to find yourself without a home pretty quick, and you're probably going to find yourself without a home, without a lot of stats and nothing really to back up what it is that you're doing. You're going to have to rely on summer ball. And if you're not doing well in summer ball, round and round we go, Jack, you know, so I just think that, you know, obviously this opens up a can of worms, but I thought that, you know, watching this, this young man the other day, you know, he was like 12 to 16 seconds in between pitches. Like, he works fast and he's a one two, one three to the plate. Excuse me, Varies looks, picks over to first, picks to second. Like, you know, he has an A move and a B move. You know, generally speaking, pitchers have two different moves to first base. Like, there's a lot different things that go into this. And I think that, you know, if. If you're 20, 27 or younger and you're listening to this, these are things that you want to at least start incorporating into your game so that you have an. I like when you get to be recruited next year, that you actually have an idea and understanding of what that looks like. Because that can. I do think that that can be a separator, right? Like, you could be 87, 89 with a loose arm and not be, you know, throwing 100 miles an hour, 87, 89 with. With pitch ability and a. A snapdragon slider. And then you can field your position, you can hold runners and you can do some other stuff that is a dude that guys are going to want to recruit. But if you're 87, 89, you're 19 to the plate and you know you can't field your position or do anything else, you're going to find yourself in a hard spot to get recruited, likely at the level in which you want to get recruited at.
• 12:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think the term that a lot of people like to use is polish. And I think sometimes that gets confused with ceiling and that like a kid's polished, therefore there's like, not a lot left to go. But for me, polish is, do you play the game clean? Right. And what you're talking about right now is that kid has. He does things that when he steps on Campus. There's no learning curve. I can pick the first. I can pick the first. Well, being able to, to get to home plate in a manageable time, not lose your stuff, manage the running game, get off the mountain and be able to play defense, like, it seems easy, right? And it seems like, oh, well, everybody can just do that. They can't. It's just really that simple. Like, we had guys at William and Mary who we had discussions about it's really hard to bring that kid in the middle of an inning because he, he's not good enough with the running game. So you got to give him a clean inning, right? You do PFPs and you start to figure out, like, who can play defense, who can come off the mound and throw off balance, who takes good routes to first base on balls in that, you know, that three, four hole. Like, little stuff like that gives you confidence that a guy can perform and do the things that are going to be necessary. Because as we know, and we've talked about this, the margins get really thin when you get to college. So that pitcher not being able to take a good route to first base on a 34 ball might be the difference in a game. It sounds crazy, but he takes a bad route. He gets beat to first base or doesn't get off the mound because he's not dialed into the game and takes a bad route. That guy ends up being that out. That guy comes around to score and he loses one run. Ballgame, like, that might have been the play, right? So this stuff is really, really important. And like you said, I don't know if it's not getting taught. I don't know if it's not getting implemented right. It takes time to get some of this stuff, but it's important. It's really important. And it's stuff that coaches care about. Because I think the rebuttal to this, if, if. If you wanted to kind of argue about it would be, well, well, Coach Glass, like, isn't that what coaches get paid to do? Well, yeah, but not if I don't have to, like, I don't want to spend. I don't want to have to. To spend a lot of time teaching, revamping a kid's delivery from the stretch because he needs to go from 18 to 14 to be able to pitch for us. And that inherently is going to affect his stuff. It's going to affect his ability to command the ball. I don't want to have to take a lot of time to have a kid work on having a Quality pick off move. That's usable, right? I don't want to have to bear down on a kid about tempo, right? If you don't have to, you don't want to have to coach those things. And there's so much talent out there that you can find a kid who's a little bit closer with some of that polish. And you know, from a recruiting perspective, guys who are listening to this, this is stuff you need to implement into your game, something you need to be cognizant of because I had the exact opposite experience this weekend. Watch the 2027 throw. Good arm. 84, 87. Flashed a really, really good breaking ball. Good arm. We're talking a 1920 out of the stretch. And you know, the first thing I said to his coach is, hey, his arm's really good, but he's got to clean that stuff up because at some point he's going to have to make meaning your most meaningful pitches are made out of the, out of the stretch. So you got to be able to handle that, right? And you got to be able to do it effectively. And it doesn't hurt kids in high school because there's either not enough kids who can run or coaches don't want to run or your stuff's good enough where you can kind of just pitch out of it, right? So it gets masked. It's the same thing who throw, kid who throws with really good velo and doesn't you know how to command the ball? You know, when you're 88 to 90 in high school, you can get away with not throwing a lot of quality strikes, you know, without throwing edge fastballs. And you can kind of just come to the middle of the plate because you can beat kids with velo, right? And that polish, that lack of polish, that lack of the ability to command the ball is going to bite you in the ass at some point, right? Takes a special type of velocity, a special type of movement profile to basically just say, hey, middle, middle, let's see what happens. But this is kind of the, the non pitching side of it is it's the, the art of pitching, right? And what you're talking about is being able to do some of these softer things that legitimately move the needle and they translate to the college game. So, you know, we saw both sides of the spectrum today or this weekend with a kid who I think we, who does it at a really, a really advanced level for a 17 year old and a 16 year old who if he wants to get recruited at the level that he is probably capable of getting recruited at this off season. Is going to have to revamp some things. His delivery from the stretch is going to have to get tightened up. So that stuff's super important. The. The other example I saw this week. Right. And I'll try to frame this up. So when you go watch kid play, specifically position players, you don't know how much action a kid's gonna get. Right. Like you could show up to a game and be evaluating the shortstop and then not really ever have to make a play on a ground ball. Right. It's a little less rare with a shortstop. Right. It's certainly the case with outfielders. But you know, sitting there and watching a shortstop. I've seen him before. I know he's a good player. But he did not have a single ground ball hit to him in the seven innings that I saw. But he had one play that stuck out and kind of solidified for me what type of defender this kid was. And I'll frame up the play. So you got to run around first base. There's two outs, ball in the gap. Certainly a stand up double. Possible play at the plate. Potential for that play at the plate to get washed in a play at third base if something gets bobbled up in the outfield. So it's a right center field play. So this shortstop overlaps the second baseman communicating. I got the lead, which I thought was cool. So he takes a lead on the relay and the whole time he's running out to this play to get set up. He's got his head turned and he's watching the runners and he's moving out to a spot that he needs to get to. But he's scanning the field and he's got a really good idea of the guy who hit the double isn't going to be able to get to third. But there's a potential play at the plate with the guy who was on first. And you can see him adjust his positioning knowing that this play is going to. I'm going to throw this ball to home. Feeder in a good spot. Bases under him. He gives some ground because the throw from the outfielder was good. Which we'll talk about later. Catches it in rhythm. Catches it with his right foot crossing over, left foot hits the ground balls out. It's a perfect long hop to home. He stops the runner from third from scoring. They get a pop up. No runs get scored that inning. That was the only play I got to see this kid make the whole game. But Ed is such an advanced play that it isn't just about the throw. It's about all the stuff he did prior to it. And a lot of coaches who are locked into a game, specifically if you're locked in on one player, you pick up on that stuff. And if I had never seen that kid play before, that was the only play I got to see him make. Defensively, bad defensive players don't do that. Bad defensive players overrun that throw. They get caught trying to attack the ball as opposed to being in position so that they can read the throw, use their legs, use their feet. They air mail that throw or, you know, they three hop it, or they hold the ball because they don't know where the ball's supposed to go. Like that's what unprepared defenders do. But this kid did everything the way that a good college shortstop would do it. And sometimes it's that stuff that puts you over the top, right? If I had never seen that kid play before, I'm walking away calling that coach, going, hey, I got to know more about this kid. When's he playing next? Because he did something that was so advanced in the moment that I know I need to do a little bit more homework. Now. I'd seen him play, like I said, I was already pretty confident he was a good player. But stuff like that is kind of these details that we're talking about that coaches are legitimately going to hone in on, right? And that's a pretty good example from a defensive perspective for an infielder. There's a lot of things that I go to when I'm looking at hitters, and I mentioned this before we started, so I'll. I'll parlay into this. I can't stand hitters who take strikes early in the count. High school hitters, and they get out of the box and they shake your head like, oh, that's a good pitch. You need guys that are ready to swing. Good hitters are ready to hit as soon as they get in the batter's box. And that sounds super cliche, but it's cliche for a reason. It's true. Really good hitters don't have the bat on their shoulder with oo fastballs that are called strikes, right? And obviously there's nuance to this. If you get a bad pitch call right umpire calls a bad strike. Or you're talking like a really nice edged out pitch, you know, different stuff like that. I'm talking like that hittable oo fastball. Good hitters don't take that pitch. The barrel's off Their shoulder, they're either, they're either pulling that thing foul because they're, they're getting the barrel out and they're being aggressive or that ball is getting put in play with a little bit of, with a little bit of ferocity, if you will. And I saw a bunch of that this weekend. And the good hitters that I saw this weekend, they weren't taking a lot of called strikes. The barrels going. The kids who've got a little bit of a ways to go as hitters, there's a lot of takes, there's a lot of second guessing. So, you know, you might not even be able to get off a ton of good swings. But hitters who are ready to hit, clue me in that I need to pay attention to this kid hit. When a kid gets a really good swing off. Oh, bows are straight back, pulls it down left field line. That catches my eye because, okay, this kid got in the box, he was ready to roll. That's the sign of a kid who has a chance to hit, in my opinion. So that's one of my examples. Offensively, I know you got a couple, a couple things that, that you dial in on with, with catchers and different position players. So I'll pass it back over to you for another example of this.
• 23:51
  Speaker A: I think you're right. You know, there's, it's being prepared to hit, it's looking prepared in the on deck circle, you know, especially if you're cue, you know, queued in on one guy or you know, a handful of one, two, three guys, like you're watching everything it is that they're doing to see how they go about their business and are they prepared, you know, and generally speaking, I think that you're going to know relatively quickly whether or not that that kid's going to give himself a good opportunity to be able to be successful in the game, whether it's offensively or defensively. But bad takes, you know, I. Here's one thing that grinds my gears and it's not, this has nothing to do with anything but like the, the high five or the, the fist bump after guys punch out. Like that drives me nuts. I don't even coach anymore. It drives me nuts. Like, hey, good job not doing anything successful up there. No, stop doing that. You know, But I look, it's part of the game but like, you know, I, those like things like that, like, drive me nuts, you know, But I think that like, I don't know.
• 25:13
  Speaker B: How.
• 25:13
  Speaker A: Much I don't want to say this stuff isn't being taught or coached because I think it is, I think the disconnect comes that it in carrying it from the cage or BP or whatever into a game. I think it's a little bit, you know, I do think that it's in part because of the way that summer ball is set up. Especially nowadays where, you know, you're playing odd scheduled games, you're playing in multiple different fields. The facilities don't, you know, some of them have bp, some of them don't. You know, you're essentially showing and going at all of these types of tournaments, right? Like you have 15 minutes to get ready and just roll it out there and go, you know. But I think that's where it becomes important to have some semblance of a routine as to what you do to get yourself ready. Like, you know, it's a little bit different in college where, you know, you have whatever it is, 50 minutes to take BP and IO and depending on how you decide to do it now is, is what you do. But you have a plethora of time to, you know, work through your, your BP rounds and then take ground balls and throw and do all those things during bp. But then, you know, obviously you a little bit of downtime when you're the home team where you sit for another 40ish minutes before you do anything else. So, you know, but there's a routine that you can develop in there. You know, like I said, I don't think that these, some of these things aren't being taught but like, I just think there's a, I think implementation that you used earlier is a better, a better word to use in this, this conversation of how we get it to move from you know, cage batting practice into game. The other part of it too is like, what are you doing in between games, right? Like if you're just playing Thursday, Friday or Friday, Saturday, Sunday in the summer, like what are you doing Monday through Thursday? Like, are you hitting? Are you taking ground balls? Are you throwing? Like what does that look like? Because I think that like it shines through, especially this time of year where, you know, I went to a game this weekend and you know, look, I'm, I like high energy, high motor players, teams. I like that stuff. Like it is a drain. And I saw it, it is a drain to watch a team literally walk onto the field out of the dugout, like just slow paced walk to your position. Like, I'm not saying you have to sprint out there, but give me a tad bit of hustle. Just, just a tad show Me that you want to be here. And you know, I think things like that, like, it goes, it's hard, it's hard to recruit that, if you will. Like, those are roadblocks that you're going to have to overcome. If I was coaching still and I showed up to that game and you're just walking on, off the field and that's not going to fit into my program. Like, not that we're, you know, sprinting everywhere, but like we're hard on and off the field. When I coached, that's just what we did. And I think that it's things like that go noticed hard 90s running the bases the correct way, you know, understanding how many outs there are. What does it look like? You know, I mean, I know the other day the Jazz Chisholm issue with the New York Yankees where we got, you know, doubled off at first base on an infield, pop up, you know, but like, I saw a similar instance on a hit and run in a game where the runner never found the ball, had no idea where it was, it was a pop fly to the outfield, doubled off first base. But, you know, it's little things like that, like, those are things that are ingrained in you when you get to college. Like if we are hitting and running on your second or third step, you are looking in and finding the baseball because you got to know where it is and that, like, that those are things that I think, like, those are the little things that, you know, it gets lost on, on people where I think, like you, you know, there's a difference between playing the amount of games that are going on now and learning by watching what's going on. And I think there's a distinct difference in that with, with the baseball that's being played now and what shows up on college campuses as freshmen. Like, you know, you said it earlier, like, you know, isn't that what coaches are supposed to do? Like, yeah, it is. But I also think that the, the learning curve is incredibly steep. And I would argue that the vast majority of freshmen that do not play regardless of level, it's likely not due to skill set. Right. Like I would argue that. I mean, are there going to be some. Because skill set, yes. But the vast majority, I would say it's just because you don't, you can't play yet at the college level because of your baseball IQ or your lack of ability to be able to hold runners or your base running. It's going to be things like that that are easily fixable and coachable, but the reps it takes for you to be able to good at those things, I don't want to say are being wasted when you're in high school, but if you're not doing them correctly, those are things that are going to become a hindrance to you when you get into college, because those are things. And I can't speak for every college program, but we base ran every day. We live base ran every day when I was at rpi. Like did matter. Like, some days it would just be like, hey, I, I don't need. We're not going 100 all out here, but we're getting reads. Give me live reads, give me four or five hard steps and make sure we're getting our reads down today at first, at second, at third, you know, infield, back, infield, in, whatever we're, you know, whatever our, our practice plan was for the day, but you know, days where, hey, it's been heavy all week. Listen, I don't need you guys going balls to the wall here. I just need get the right read, get four or five hard steps for me and then get out of the way. Try to get as many reps as possible. But those are things, like you add that up over the course of a season, that's a lot of reps that you're getting running at first base. That's a lot of reps you're getting running at second base with less than two, with two outs, right? Like those are infield, in, in field, back. What are we doing those types of things so that we get into the game like we've done it. It's not something that we have to have a conversation about of like, hey, this is what we're doing here, you know, And I think it's just while we're, I don't know, the happy medium, right, in finding the way to get better at all of these little things. Because it's a game that the vast majority of people that play it, I would argue, can't really play 24, 7, 365. You know, you can't necessarily really work on baserunning inside in January in New York. Like, yeah, we can bang some fungos out there and let you run around, but like, they're empty reps, in my personal opinion.
• 32:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think. But there's like an instinctual piece of it too. And like you're trying, when you do all that base running stuff in college, like, you're trying to magnify the instincts. You're trying to develop some instincts and like some feel for when the ball goes to this part of the field, I'm at third base from first every time, right? But when you're looking at a high school kid, like, you kind of want some of those instincts embedded. And I think when you go and watch a high school guy and you see that kid go to first or third without having to stop, without having to pause, and he just knows that ground ball through the four hole that got hit right behind me, I'm on third base every time, baby. And that kid doesn't pick his head up. Like coaches notice that stuff, right? The kid who knows which balls to tag up on and which balls not to tag up on. I saw that got messed up a couple times this weekend where you've got no outs, fly ball, the right field, like a guaranteed fly ball to right field. And the guy on second base is 3/4 of the way to third before he realizes that he might have a chance to tag up. And then I seen the exact opposite with one out and a ball to center field and we're going back to.
• 34:04
  Speaker A: Tag, you're already in scoring position.
• 34:08
  Speaker B: Little, little stuff like that, where the kids who have good instincts, the kids who have really good feel for the game, those are the types of things that coaches pick up on. You know, you see these write ups, Baseball America and D1Baseball.com and, you know, east coast pro and all that kind of stuff. And they write up about some of these really, really good players. And a lot of it is focused on the tool set. But occasionally you'll see something about, like the feel for the game is extremely high. That's the type of stuff they're talking about. They're talking about the kid who gets dirtball reads. They're talking about the kid who goes from first to third, the infielder who on the ball at this shortstop with the ball in the six hole, the guy on second base knows that he can get the guy at third as opposed to going across the infield. Like little stuff like that, like that coaches pick up on.
• 35:05
  Speaker A: Well, and I think it's impactful. No, it is like, you know, again this weekend, there was dirt ball read. Runners on first and second. Kid on second immediately moves up to third, and the trail runner didn't go. The coach wasn't too thrilled about it, but he was right. Like, the trail runner needs to be in motion at that point in time. Like that ball goes in the dirt. Your key is that run around second, he's out. Like, I'm out. Which is why instinctually, like, as Catchers, you want to throw backside. In a double steel situation, in a dirt ball read situation, you want to throw backside because that guy on first base is reading the runner in front of him. And the likelihood of you being able to throw out the lead runner is low. It's a higher probability to be able to throw out the trail runner. So, like, you know, the coach was right, the kid on second base was right, but that trail runner needs to go because now you have two guys in scoring position and you know, to your point, with instincts, like, that's exactly what you know, that's the right thing in those situations. It's hard, I think, sometimes when you're. It's not, obviously when it's not, you don't talk about it, you don't do it, whatever, right? But though, like, those are things that win and lose baseball games, those are things that are going to be expected of you to understand and do a really good job at when you get to college. And it can be a tad bit overwhelming where you're like, there's so much. And it's funny because you'll hear coaches talk about this all the time. Where, you know, when I started, when I got to college, I thought I knew a lot about baseball, and I got to college and I was like, I know nothing about baseball. And then when I started coaching, I was like, I have a really good grasp of this game. I'm really good at this. I know what I'm doing. And very quickly I was like, I know nothing about this game. And it's, you know, it's not necessarily that whole, like, lifelong learner thing that we, you know, people will tell you about. But there's, there's something that comes with watching the sheer amount of games. If you are legitimately, intently watching what's going on, you'll see things and you'll see patterns of things that start to really replicate themselves and work and, and play out. And I think that, like, you can, you can teach yourself and get yourself further along just by watching. And it sounds cliche because we talk about all the time, I'll watch college baseball or watch big league baseball, whatever, right? But there's a lot of things that you can learn by just by watching it, seeing where guys are positioned, right? Like, you know, it's a little bit easier now than when we were in college where everyone kind of has a card or you have your, you know, your watch that tells you where you got to stand every time we bring somebody up. But, you know, or every time the hitter Turns over. Excuse me. When you're on defense like we were in college, we had a coach that, you know, not me specifically because I caught, but you. Like, we had positional coaches that would move guys based off of the scout report and how we were going to pitch them. And you know, yo, Andy, I need you glove side too. I need you throwing arm side to like one, you know, whatever it might be. And you know, outfield's got a slide, you know, oppo and in we're playing this guy pull side, you know, we're going to play him pull side, center and left. But we're playing them oppo in right. So we're going to leave that gap wide open because he's not showed the ability to do it. You know, the being able to understand those things about, you know, how we're pitching guys, what's going on, like, you know, especially pitchers nowadays, right, at the younger out levels. And I see this all the time and I thought it was one of the, it was like one of the biggest battles to fight with younger pitchers when they got to college. And sometimes it was more like just let them go fail. When you're a younger pitcher and you show up on a college campus.
• 39:27
  Speaker B: It.
• 39:27
  Speaker A: Does not matter how hard you throw, unless you're some dude who's going to be 98 to 101 with a Snapdragon slider. Like all of those guys are college hitters. They've all seen this before.
• 39:41
  Speaker B: So.
• 39:43
  Speaker A: It always broke me when you'd get somebody who like, you know, they would always, like they would always attack other freshmen, right? Like they would. They'll try to blow by them, then try to throw their slightly above average breaking ball that we're working on to get better, to get those guys out. And then you get the older guys who would just sit dead red fastball and turn it around. And it was like, you know, their minds were blown the first week or two because it's like, hey man, this isn't, this isn't high school where hitters 5 through 9 can't hit 89 miles an hour. Like 15 to 17 guys on this roster do not care that you throw 89 miles an hour. Doesn't scare them in the slightest. So you have to figure out how you can get yourself better in those spots. And I think that that's where, you know, that's one of the biggest learning curves I think, for freshmen as well. But I'm getting off track here. You know, the little things I think that matter and the instincts and things like that are ultimately what eventually, you know, tip the scales in your favor from a recruiting standpoint. You know, the catchers who can, you know, who can kind of control the game from behind home plate. Like, you're constantly having guys in, in motion, you know, on cuts and relays, you're vocal, you know the guy. You know what I haven't seen a lot of and I don't know why catchers backing up first base. Have you? Like I, I have seen. Oh, I haven't so little of it.
• 41:28
  Speaker B: Because you usually notice that kid in.
• 41:31
  Speaker A: The, in like one or two. Like it was. It is something that I, I have not seen at the high school level consistently in the last like four or five years.
• 41:43
  Speaker B: I haven't seen much of it this summer. But the funny thing is, is that I can think of, I can think of one kid who did and he was pretty good player.
• 41:51
  Speaker A: Right? But like, you know, it's, it's like.
• 41:54
  Speaker B: Some energy like that.
• 41:57
  Speaker A: And I don't know, you know, it was big for me when I played, but it was also, you know, obviously with nobody on, you can't vacate home plate. But with, you know, ground ball, the first with nobody out, nobody on, like, you'll get your ass down the line and get deep because if there's an overthrow, you're right there. I see the balls just fly away and the runners take off because there's no one there.
• 42:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, this. Well, the, the other, the flip side of this too is in this clues you into like good outfielders. That move. I watched a young man playing right field who, he's actually pretty good little player, but a ball got hit to the left center field gap and he never moved from the spot he started the pitch from until the ball got back to the pitcher and then he reset himself. He just stood there with his hands down. Yeah, but like the, the, the good side of that is. And like we're laughing like, because the funny thing was he's a pretty good player. But the right fielder who, when a ground ball gets hit to shortstop, it's not that you're running downhill 100 miles an hour trying to get to the backup spot, it's that you're moving in that direction. Like in good players, like instinctively do some of these things, they move into that space. The outfielders come into those awkward zones for overthrows. Right guys stealing third ball doesn't get put in play. Left fielders moving towards the line with a little bit of pace and like. But that little stuff like that clues you into that A kid is engaged in what's going on. They probably got a little bit of a feel for what's going on in the game and they got some energy, they got a motor and they're out there trying to compete because it's easy to go through the motions during some of these summer ball games and just expect, you know, the game to kind of unravel the way that it does. But those good players do the things that we're talking about. The catcher is going to trail on a ground ball in the infield with nobody on and be in a spot to potentially get an overthrow for the one in a hundred times that that play can be made right where it kicks to him. But he might save that guy being able to advance that right fielder coming downhill and getting into that, that pocket where if a ball ricochets or a ball gets overthrown, that you're there. Maybe, maybe you don't prevent the hitter from going to second, but maybe you prevent that hitter from getting to third, getting to third or that baserunner getting to third on an overthrow from a pickoff play. Stuff like that. I, I swear and I promise to the listeners, coaches notice that stuff. They would 100% notice that stuff. And it's not a deal breaker for everybody. Right. I'm not going to cross you off my list if you're the right fielder and you're not backing up first baseball on a throat, on a ground ball, at a third baseman. But if you do it, I'll probably take notice of it. And it might not be the reason I commit you, but it's a piece of the puzzle that plays in your favor. And I think that's what we're getting out with some of this stuff is that all these kids who are young, 16, 17 years old, they're going to make mistakes. They're going to not tag up in the right spot. They're, you know, they're gonna not go on a dirt ball. Read like that stuff is going to happen. It happens at the college level. It breaks you when it happens at a college level because the, the consequences of are usually more significant. But it's things that coaches clue in on. The other one that, that I think is important, I think this goes unnoticed sometimes too, is like running good times to first base. It seems simple, but there's a lot of kids who don't run their best time to first base every time. And you're not in the big leagues. That play is not getting made. That routine ground ball to the shortstop isn't getting made 999 out of a thousand times. It's not. But if you run your good time down to first base all the time, there's a couple things that matter to me. One, I get a good feel for your actual ability to get down the line, right? I don't look up and see the clock and go, four seven. Like was he running hard or was he not running hard? Like, and then I see you run a 4:3 and I go, all right, well, there might be a little bit of an effort issue there, but if you run that time every time, it shows me you got a good motor. You show off your ability to run and you put yourself, you put yourself and your team in a position where you might make a difference in that particular play. And that breaks me when I watch guys not run hard down the first baseline. And it's not just because that's what you should do. It's because from an evaluation perspective, that's a key data point for a coach in the evaluation process is what do you run home to first? Can you run good times down the line? Stuff like that I think matters, like what's your turn look like? You know, there's almost every coach that I stand there and watch a game with they time turns because we got a pretty good idea that if you're a 46 on the turn, you're probably a pretty good runner. So running good turns, like running hard out of the box, like, it sounds like really simple stuff. But good players do it and good players do it more often than not. Bad players don't run hard, bad players don't back up bases. Good players do this stuff. And coaches are looking for good players. They're looking for guys who play the game well. And all of this stuff that we're talking about that isn't directly related to how hard you throw the ball, how hard you hit it. You know how we're talking about how fast you can run. But like some of the more tool based metrics, right, that everybody loves to gravitate to, we're talking about some of the other stuff that shows up on a daily basis that we're concerned with as college coaches because that's the stuff that ultimately matters in the long run. It's the stuff that helps us win games. It's the guys who back up, it's the guys who can go from first to third, it's the guys who run hard 90s, it's the guys who get good dirtball reads, it's the guys who get on and off the field because a lot of this stuff is a measure of your ability to focus in your ability to play hard. And those two things are non negotiable when you get to college. A bad dirt ball read is usually not because a kid's slow or because he's a bad baseball runner. It's usually a lapse in focus. It's taking that pitch off under the assumption that this ball isn't going to get spiked. Right. It's, it's a bad read on a ball to right field because I wasn't locked in on that pitch and I wasn't ready to make that decision in an instant. Like a lot of this stuff is mental and it needs to be, it needs to at some point become in instinctual. And the guys who do it already, they, when they do it and they do it well, they stick out like a sore thumb on the field because they do things that are really impactful and they do things that coaches value. So I think that's what we're trying to drive at here is like being able to control the running game, being able to have a quality pickoff move, being able to field your position as a pitcher. That helps you win games.
• 49:54
  Speaker A: Yeah, right.
• 49:55
  Speaker B: Running hard 90s helps you win games. First to thirds help you win games. We're looking for guys who not only have the prerequisite skill set and tool set to play at our particular level, but we're also looking for guys who do things that help us win games. And these are the things that, that we're talking about that don't get talked about enough in the evaluation process because we're, we're stuck on 240 characters and a hashtag about what the exit below was or you know, what their 60 time was. When truly coaches are looking for guys who help them win games. Like that's where it all starts. And what we're talking about here are the little things that matter.
• 50:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean those are the things that ultimately win and lose your games. But it's also, I think it's also the difference between you playing and helping teams win and lose games because those are opportunities in coach pitches, in inner squads and midweek games. And when you're, you know, you get in and it's 15 to 2 and you're getting boat race, like what are you doing in order to show that you have an idea of what's going on? And I get it right. In some, some of those situations you might not necessarily be able to get a dirt ball read when you're you know, winning 15 to 2, they might tell you to shut it down, but you'd be lying to yourself if you think that the coaches aren't actually queued in on, on what you look like doing that, you know, and that they get, you know, another one that grinds my gears but can clue you into, at least for me, with catchers, our plays at the plate. Do you know how many times, like, if you think about it right now, like, when's the last time you saw a legit, well executed play at the plate and someone was out or it was a bang bang play.
• 52:10
  Speaker B: I can tell you exactly when it was 2022. 2025. Yeah, it was 2022. It was Penn. It was Penn versus Columbia in the Irish.
• 52:22
  Speaker A: I'm talking about high school.
• 52:23
  Speaker B: No, I can't remember, but let me walk you through this because it was awesome, but just a perfectly. It was, it was executed incredibly well all the way around. Kid from Penn busting his ass from second ends up getting thrown out at the plate. Wes Eberly, who's one of the better defensive catchers I watched in college, catches a ball on a short hop, tag swipe, bang, bang play, never left home plate. Like, kept his ground, which I think, you know, we could get into the mechanics of some of this stuff at a different time. And I know it's something that you love, but like, never left, never left home plate because you shouldn't leave home plate, and held his ground. Tag play, it was just a beautiful, beautiful thing. But to your point, in high school, I haven't really seen it in a long time. Like a play that's executed really well.
• 53:16
  Speaker A: No. Like, I see more balls get ejected out of the mitt on the bounce than I do balls get caught and legitimately have a chance. And I don't like. And for me, it always clued me into the mindset of the catcher. Right? Like, and I don't know if it was I was looking for guys like me or guys that were like me that I know who are really good catching guys. But I would venture a guess to say that the vast majority of guys who, who enjoyed that type of thing, like, I treated that plate as my own. Like, you had to come through me to get to it. And like, I, I probably did some bush league stuff. Like I would stand on home plate or out in front of it because you have to give a lane like until the very last second and then I would move if there was no play at the plate. But that, like, it was mine. Like, that's what I thought, like, that plate behind my head on this podcast was mine and you had to go through me to get to it. And I was going to do everything in my power to make sure that you didn't get there. Like I like. And I always cue in on those things because to me, like, it's a mindset of like, this, this run means so much to our team that like, you're going to have to legitimately bury me and hope that I drop the baseball to get to it. And the likelihood of me dropping it was slimming up. I did get run over a handful of times and then there's a great story that I can tell that's not safe for work, that happened in 2005. But that said, I think that like those types of things, like, it seems like such a, a small, a small piece of the game, right? But in a run prevention slash, you're trying to score as many runs, you know, you're trying to score more runs than the other team. Like, that is a huge play. And it's also something that I don't think is coached a whole hell of a lot. And it's not to say that you can't, you know, but, you know, you could also work that stuff in during your throwing program. You know, like I've said this before, I stole the catchers throwing program from coach Brady at Columbia, where every day at the end of their throwing program, they work double plays, you know, infield, in home to first double plays with their footwork. And they were, when they're doing long toss stuff, they work plays at the plate, catch, secure the ball, knee down, tag every single day. And while you might not necessarily get to do it every day in team defense and stuff, but like there's 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 reps that you can get every single day that you do this. And it's astonishing how much better you can get at it if you just integrate that into your throwing program. So that now it becomes way more natural. And it's not something that you've never done before, you know, but again, I think that things like that, you know, how many times do you see, guys, I'm going to pick on catchers here before I get to the infield question I want to ask you, but like in between innings, if you go to any game, I shouldn't say any game. If you find yourself at a college game or a professional game, the likelihood of you hearing the catcher yell balls in, coming down or two is slim to none. It doesn't Happen because the infielders are queued in on the catcher. The catcher is going to give them this, or they'll get put one arm out. Whichever one it is, doesn't matter. That means the ball is going to second base. That's all. Could be after two pitches, could be after five, but regardless, that's happening. But like, even tags, like, how many times do you see guys that catch the baseball and they don't like the. The tag mechanics are lacking. I don't want to say bad lacking.
• 57:26
  Speaker B: They don't work on tag plays.
• 57:29
  Speaker A: You know what? But my point, though, is that, like, that is something that those are little things that can be separators. And then like, this is. This is a rather nuanced conversation about things that, like, you might not think that any of this matters right now in the grand scheme of things, but if you end up on a college campus and you're playing college baseball, like, these are things that are eventually going to matter, like how you tag actually matters and how you go about receiving the baseball placing tags, that matters. And it could be the difference between an out and a safe call. You know what I mean? It's the same as, like, you know, when you tell me you're 1 9, you can't put the ball on the base the game one night because that ball like this, our shortstop has to jump out of his shoes to catch that ball and then try to tag someone like, he ain't having it. Like, it's the same kind of concept, you know?
• 58:22
  Speaker B: Like, yeah, it's the same idea of an infielder who throws a snot out of it but isn't accurate. Like, there's, there's, there's other pieces of the puzzle that have to come together to get a complete picture of your ability to do something. Yes. You know? Yeah, like, I was best infield guys ever been around. Always talked about, does a guy have. Feel like a little bit of touch is what I've heard some people call it where, you know. You know, when you have to let it rip, you know, timing, you have feel for how hard you need to throw it. The type of throw that needs to be made. But more importantly, you're accurate. Like, can you consistently throw a catchable ball over to first base? And it sounds simple, but it's not. Like, some guys are better throwers than other. They're more accurate throwers than others. They have better feet, they're in better position, they have better hand awareness. Like, but those are the things that coaches are going to nitpick at in terms of, you know, when you're starting to evaluate a guy's like, yeah, he has the prerequisite arm strength. Like, but does he have the ability to throw from multiple angles? Can he throw accurately?
• 59:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I think the flip side of that too is like, if you're a first baseman or you're a catcher like you. The two, the two guys that are receiving the baseball the most on the field are your catcher and your first baseman. Like, you need to know arm actions. You need to know how balls come out of, out of hands, out of guys like, yo, my right fielder does not have a great arm or my center fielder does not have a great arm. So we need to make sure that we get out. And same thing for infielders, right? Like if you're cutting, you find yourself in double cut situation. You know, if our center fielder does not have an arm like, Andy, I need you in center field to be able to relay this ball back because he ain't going to reach you on the fly if you're any further back, right? But it's like if you're a first baseman, you have to know like, hey, when he's, you know, every time he goes backhand, you know, if he goes, if he goes backhand and cuts it loose, like it stays straight, if he goes glove side and has to cut it loose from down here in this arm slot, like, that ball is going to run away from me if I'm right handed. It's going to run away from my glove and into line. Like, I got to get myself position to be able to cut that ball off so I don't get my arm tight, taken off by the, by the runner coming down the first baseline and, you know, separating my, my arm from my body. But I think like, those are things that, you know, those to me are like, those are instinctual things that can clue you into like, yeah, this kid's got a, this kid has an idea of what's going on. Or like the first baseman that can, you know, that ball goes high and they can get up over the bag and catch it on the backside of the bag in foul territory to give themselves another three feet of that ball coming down and into their glove versus having to go up and try to tag for it. You know, stuff like that. That is just, you know, it's not, it's them being able to figure it out as they're going, how they can, you know, get out versus just letting the play play themselves.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker B: I mean, little stuff like, yeah, no, like watching the first baseman who knows when to come off the bag and not try to make a pick and not hold the bag. Like, that's. Those are instincts. This sounds simple. And every single coach talks about it from every level. You probably start when you're nine years old. Hit your cutoff man, hit your cutoff man. Hit your cutoff man, Hit your cutoff man. Outfielders who can accurately throw to their cutoff man, that's important. Everybody's upset. Like you, you saw, I'm sure whoever's listening to this, if you watch Major League Baseball, you probably saw Ronnie Acuna's throw from right field.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker A: Yikes.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker B: The geek. Like, okay, everybody loves that play, and it's, it's an amazing play, but sometimes in baseball, the plays you don't make are the plays that win you games. And it's not trying to throw the runner out at third base, but throwing it through the cutoff man. That might be the difference in maintaining a double play. That guy trying to go from first to third. Then you hit your shortstop in the chest, and the guy on first base can't advance to second base because you didn't make a bad throw. Double play stays in order. You get a ground ball, you get out of the inning. Like, little stuff like that wins you games in the college level and high school outfielders, who can accurately throw a baseball where it's supposed to go. That stuff that coaches clue in on, like, it's some of the, these little things that we're talking about. Are you delivering it to the right bag, you know, or if you've got.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker A: Oh, there's, there's nothing worse than an auto first, the third on like a ground ball through the four hole, and you have no shot of throwing the runner out of third. And you just sell it.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker A: And then the runner moves up or the runner doesn't actually run hard, they sell the throw to third base and we're still left with first and third. Yeah.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker B: And you get to like the, the 12 hopper through the six hole. The guy on second base, and the left fielder comes up trying to throw a guy out. That guy's in easy. Yeah. Has to come out of the shoe. Guy goes to second base. And then you, you know, it just turns into where really good players understand situations and go, I'm never going to get the guy at home plate, so I'm going to deliver this ball to second base and I'm going to prevent them from getting an extra base. Little stuff like that. Coaches notice that because it tells me you have feel for what's going on in the. That left fielder who doesn't try to throw the guy out at home tells me that he has a feel for what is going on on the field at the moment because he looked up and went, I'm not throwing that guy out. I'm going to deliver this ball to second base. Okay, wonderful. Now, double plays in order, force plays in order. You know, we're not putting anybody else in scoring position. You know, those are the parts of the game that sometimes it's the throw you don't make, sometimes it's the play you don't try to make that actually be. Ends up being the impactful playing a game. And good players make good plays like delivering the ball to the right base or delivering the ball to the cutoff man. Those are good baseball plays. Good players make good baseball plays. We all, we always fall in love with the flashy stuff in the home run and good hitters refuse to strike out. Good defenders deliver the ball where it's supposed to go. They're in the right places on the field at the right time. Like we talked about. I talked about it at the beginning of this with the shortstop. He was in the right place. He was looking at the right things. Like, he made a really good baseball play and that saved them a run. But it's a play that in the score book, there's nothing that indicates at that moment that that was a good baseball play. It doesn't show up in the highlights, it doesn't show up in the score book. There's no mention of it on your live feed or your game changer or your live stats. There's no mention of it, but that's a really, really good baseball player.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. So it's, you know, and I, I think a lot of it too, is a feel, but I, I think a lot of this can be solved just by general effort. Like, I used to always scream good bit all the time. Like, if you're within arm's length of the ball, give me a bid, dive, let me see what happens. Maybe you catch the ball, but like, and it carries over in game because it then becomes, you know, run around second ground ball through the middle of the field and you dive out, you dive and lay out for that ball. We might have a chance if they're wheeling that guy from second home to either a throw him out at home or it's like he's caught in between of like, oh, my goodness, I didn't think he was going to get this. Now we get a rundown we're out of the inning just on a little bit of an extra effort instead of just, that's a ground ball through the infield, I'm going to, you know, there's a run. And I think that breeds more confidence for your pitchers. Like, they're more, like, they're more apt to, you know, hey, if I, when I give up hits, these guys lay out to try to keep everything in. Like, it's kind of a field flow block. Bad Happy Gilmore reference for you young bucks out there. But, you know, like, it's, it's things like that that I think the coaches pay attention to, and to think that they don't is, is a fallacy because those, you might show up to a game to watch a kid play. Kind of what you were talking about earlier with that shortstop on that relay play, he didn't get one ball hit to him. But on the one play where he's actually involved, he does everything right and at a super high level. Like, it's okay. Like, there's a hell of a lot more there in that kid than, you know, I, I should kick the tires and see what more is there. Whereas if you can't do that or you're not in a good spot, you don't take, like, you don't, you don't look good doing things over the course of the game, it's like, nah, he's, he's okay. Like, we have other guys on our board that I think are better. And it's just one little thing like that that can change the tide for you. And I think the, the parallel you can draw is that, like, you know, I've said this a billion times. Like, you never know what's going to win or lose you a game. In a baseball game, there's 27 outs on both sides. There's a plethora of pitches being thrown, plays being made. You never know if that error in the first inning that ends up scoring a run is the run that ends up losing you that baseball game or conversely, when you. That baseball game. But it's the same in recruiting. Like, you never really know who's there and you never really know what, what's going to turn in a good way or bad way in your direction. Because if it's, you know, if you don't get a ball hit to you and you have no energy, no motor, and, you know, you're, you can't really do anything from a cut and relay standpoint and it just doesn't look good. Like, I don't know if I'm going to come back. But if you do what you talked about with that young man, like, I'm probably going to come back and watch you. Like, yeah, I didn't see a ball hit to him, but man, was he in a perfect position and played a relay better than I've seen our shortstop do. So there's something there. I want to, you know, go a little bit further down the road with this young man and see if it might be a good fit for us.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, bad players don't do that kind of stuff.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker A: Right. But my point is, like, that's doing something that, yeah. You don't think that that has any bearing on your play in the game. Right. Like, if you, if you ask that young man, like, hey, how do you think you played today? Like, I would be interested to hear, like, I don't know, I didn't get a ball hit to me, like, okay, what else?
• 1:10:14
  Speaker B: That's probably his response. And I would say.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker A: It'S an innocuous play to a person who is just not, who's not dialed into recruiting and doesn't know what baseball looks like at in this sense. Right. But like, for people like us who have done this for so long and people who continue to recruit and do this, like that's a high level play that can, that can move the needle for guys to be like, man, did you just see that play? Like that's, that's legit right there. I should probably bear down a little bit more on that kid versus, you know, fielding it or, you know, catching that ball with your, your body squared to the outfield or turning the wrong way. Your feet aren't in position. We're not throwing with our feet like that. Like, that right there is me like, yeah, no, it's, I don't, I don't think he has it. Like, I watched a team the other day on a strikeout, they threw it around the infield. The catcher doesn't deliver a good ball to the third baseman. So he's moving his feet. He catches and just doesn't move his. Or keeps moving his feet and flips into the second baseman who then has to jump and reach for it, does the same thing back to the shortstop and then they throw it away. And I was like, can we just set our feet like this? This is a relatively easy thing to do. Can we just catch the baseball and set our feet and throw it? This isn't. If that's how you're going to throw it around the diamond, like, don't do it also go third, short, second, third. Don't go third, second, short, third.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker B: I forget how we did it back in the day.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker A: Third, short, second, third. And then Meyer got mad at me when I tried getting the first baseman in because when we struck out right handers, I would throw it to the first baseman. Meyer didn't like that shout out. Kyle Meyer threw off his mojo at second base.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker B: A lot of mojo to throw off. I'll leave you with one other little tidbit from this weekend because we were talking about like running good times to first base. So I'm sitting, sitting, watching a game and for. I'll just frame this up real quick. Coaches usually sit with a stopwatch in their hand and we click that thing instinctually. Every time a pitch gets into the hitting zone, instinctually, you sit there and you click it and you reset it and you click it and you reset it and you click it and you reset it. And every time a ball gets in play, you click it again. When a guy gets to first base, you do it. You're just sitting there, you're talking. It's one of those things, if you're at enough games, there's a lot of guys who just sit there and like, that's just what you do. You get times because you're trying to look at stuff. And it's a good example of like why you run your good, your good home to first. Every time power four coach is sitting there, he's there to watch a specific guy, but he's got his clock going on some other guys, you know, as, as I'm talking about clicks. Guy hits a ground ball, a short stop, left handed hitter, clicks. When he hits first base, he looks at his watch and he shows it to me. He goes, a kid can run a little bit. What's his name? And it's just, the kid's not a Power 5 player right now, but it's just a prime example of that kid running hard down the first baseline. At least gave a legitimate programs assistant coach and recruiting coordinator a quick second to go. Who the hell is that kid? Mm. And while that kid might not be good enough to play for them right now, if that kid comes across his path later, he might double check and go, hey, I've seen this kid play before. He can run a little bit. Let me see if he's gotten any better. Or he calls up one of his buddies and he's like, hey man, I, I saw this kid play this weekend. Like, you know, you might want to take a look at him. I Think he's a pretty good player. That happens so much more than people think.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker B: Now, if you're a Big Ten school or a ACC school, you're not calling your competition. Right. But if you're a Big Ten school, you might call a school who's the. Their head coach is in the Mac and you'd be like, hey, man, I saw this dude. He's pretty freaking good.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker A: Mm.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker B: You know, that happens. So the crux of it is there's a lot of little things that happen during a game that often get overlooked by the casual fan or the parent who's watching or oftentimes the player. You know, to your point with the shortstop, he might not even recognize how good of a play that was. Right. And that might be a good or a bad thing. I don't know if it's necessarily a bad thing, but might be a good thing because he might expect like, yeah, that's just how I play. You know, it's a good play, but not really recognize the significance of that play and why it was such a good play.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker A: Correct.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker B: There's a lot that happens in a game that goes well as well. The exit below and the velocity and the number of strikeouts you have and the number of home runs you had. There's. There's all this stuff that happens in between pitches and when the ball is put in play, the coaches are constantly taking in that information. And some of that information leaves really strong clues as to a player's ability to play at the college level. And don't overlook those things. Right. And understand that some of this stuff is very effort driven. Some of this is reps, some of this is attention based. Right. But these are all significant pieces of the puzzle to coaches who go and evaluate players. This stuff legitimately sticks out to them. Like I said at the beginning, it might not be the reason, but could. It could be one of the reasons that you ultimately get noticed, that a coach come back to see it for the second time or the third time a coach makes a phone call to your coach. A coach puts you in your database because they want to track you. Like little stuff like this can be the start of something big.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker B: Or it could be the thing that tips the scales in your favor.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. I think that it's 100% fair to say in. It could go the other way too. Right. Like, I could go watch you play and there's no motor and there's no, like, you don't know. You look like you're lost out there. Like I might say video look good, but I don't know if you can play the game. And I think that a lot of people are more willing to err on the side of taking guys who are good baseball players over guys that are just skill set savants. How about that, huh?
• 1:17:40
  Speaker B: Workout warriors, if you will.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker A: Ah, skill set savants. I thought was pretty good.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, it is good.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker A: I came up with that.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker B: I don't know if anybody's ever said that before.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker A: Oh, well, you know, coined it here. Emd baseball dugout dish. Earned it here first. But you know what I mean. Like, I think I'm. To this day, I'll still take. And you'll hear guys say, like, he's just a baseball player. Like, Richard Drum played for us and played for me at rpi. Richard Drum was a baseball player. This is a true story. I don't even know if Carl doesn't listen to this podcast. I don't even know if Carl knows this. Richard Drum went to rpi, he played football, and then he ended up playing four years of baseball for us. His first game was against Randolph Macon down in Richmond at the. I believe it was the. Are they still the Richmond Braves? Is that that stadium?
• 1:18:37
  Speaker B: No, they're the Richmond Flying Squirrels.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker A: Oh, the Flying Squirrels, of course. Of course. Anyways, we was at that stadium and they were rolling out. I think his name is Colin Selby, pitching the big leagues. CJ and cj, you know, sandbagged me on that one. He comes out, he's like 94 to 96 with a Snapdragon slider, and we're not playing well. Richard Drum's not in line game one of the year. And Carl looks at him and he's like, hey, have you ever played first base? Richard Drum looked him dead in the eyes and went, yep. All through high school, he never played one day of first base ever in the history of his life, ever. And went over there and played first base for the rest of the day, as a caveat. And the best part of this story is he was our everyday center fielder, starting in game three, moving forward for the rest of the year. He could flat out go get the baseball in. In the outfield. But he was a baseball player. He knew how to run the bases. He played the game tough, he played it hard. He gave you everything he had, you know, but, like, I. Like when I hear, like, he's a baseball player, like, that's one of the first kids that comes to my mind that I ever coached. Like, that dude could just flat out play baseball. And he was really Good at it. And he had a great career. He was a great kid. Still is, you know, but, like, it's things like that where, like, you know, just give me an opportunity and I'll show you. And, you know, there's something to be said about that, that, like, guys who just can, you know, my point behind this is, like, you could put him at first base and you'd have no idea that he'd never played first base his entire life. Like, you could put him in all three outfield spots. He was our everyday center fielder, one of the better ones I've coached. Like, that dude could go get anything. I don't think we could stick him at shortstop, but, like, if we threw him at third, he's not going to be overwhelmed, you know, And I think, like, those. Those types of players are coaches, dreams of guys who can just. Like, they're just baseball players. And that's, you know, that comes with everything we've talked about tonight. The instincts, the toughness, the, you know, doing the little things, right? All of those types of things, like, ultimately. And you're not going to be a complete package if you're a freshman, sophomore, junior. You're not even complete when you're a senior in high school because you have so much more that you have to learn and understand and get better at. But as you go, like, these are things that you want to keep in mind of, how do I become a better baseball player in doing this? And it is the base running, it is knowing where you have to be on cuts and relays. It is being able to understand as a catcher of what you need to do in order to not let someone score. You know, moving guys around, you know, what if I'm an arm? Like, hey, give me the baseball. Like, yo, you want the baseball? Like, we'll give you the baseball, but you better be good every time. You know, you don't have to be electric every time you tow the rubber, but you got to go out there and compete. And, you know, I think that those are things that, you know, coaches are looking for, right? Like, we've talked about this before, where you can have. You can discern more when guys struggle. You know, who are you when you're. Things aren't going well? Who are you when. Yeah, man, you're a little banged up, you know, your back hurts, you gotta, you know, whatever it might be, it's not terrible, but, like, can you gut it out or, you know, are we just gonna, you know, hang it up? Because there's a difference between being Hurt and injured, and you're gonna get dings and nicks and bruises and cuts, and it's, it's not, it's not for the faint of heart, you know, So I think that you can start discerning a lot of that information and just things that you can file in the back of your head and think about as you go through this process of, like, how do I become a better baseball player? And what does this do in order for me to be able to get more burn and, and help our team win and. And ultimately contribute to my career or whatever that looks like.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker B: Well said, coach. When you said there's a difference between hurt and injured, all I can think about is the Geico Duck, who, if you get. If you get hurt and miss work, it doesn't hurt to miss work. Remember the old Yogi Berra Geico commercials with the duck?
• 1:22:50
  Speaker A: It's the second Geico reference.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker B: Sorry, sorry. It was Aflac.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker A: Aflac. Yes, it was the Duck.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker A: The second one I've had today because the other one I, I used today was the. I'll give you some money, which is just as good as cash.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker B: And nobody laughs because.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker A: No, I gotta laugh.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker B: Oh, good, good. Because it's, It's a good usage of it. All right, I think we covered that one pretty good. Yeah, we came, we came back around. I think we closed that out good.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, we might have lost it a little bit in the middle. But listen, like, the point, if you've made it this far in the podcast, the point is that there. There's so many other things that go into being a very good baseball player. I think we found our, Our title in our way along this journey. Yeah, but I think there's, there's, you know, it. There's so much truth to it that there's a lot more that goes into this than just how hard you throw, how hard you hit it, can you field? You know, there's a lot more that, that plays into your recruitment slash, your ability to be able to actually play at a high level. And it's not just. It's a lot of the times it's not what you think it is in just I throw it hard or I hit it hard or, you know, I can get it in my glove and out of my glove quick. There's. There's more to it where you have to actually go play the game.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker B: Agreed. All right, well, thank you for listening, everybody. Tune in next week, hopefully have another good podcast with another good topic. Until then, thanks. Thanks for listening, everybody. Talk to you soon. Thank you for listening this week. If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead and hit that subscribe button and smash that like button for us. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast as well as Spotify. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram MD Baseball if you want to find out what me and Keith do to help families and players navigate the recruiting process, go ahead and check us out on emdbaseball.com take a few minutes to check out our new online academy. I promise you'll get some good information out of that. Thanks again for listening. Check in with you next week.