Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 568: Iowa's Elite Eight run and spring Big Ten basketball musings with Tyler Tachman

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POTB 568: Iowa's Elite Eight run and spring Big Ten basketball musings with Tyler Tachman · Podcast on the Brink

0:17
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcast on the Brink.
0:23
Speaker 1: Tyler Cashman inside the Hall. Hall of Famer is what
0:27
Speaker 1: I can appropriately call him now, now of the des Moines.
0:31
Speaker 1: Register back on Podcast on the Brink before we get
0:35
Speaker 1: to Tyler and this week's episode of the show. If
0:39
Speaker 1: you enjoyed the show, please leave us a rating and
0:41
Speaker 1: review over on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. If you're watching
0:46
Speaker 1: on YouTube, like the video, subscribe to the channel, leave
0:50
Speaker 1: a comment, Share it with another IU fan or Big
0:53
Speaker 1: ten fan that you think would enjoy the content. Really
0:55
Speaker 1: appreciate your support over there. Tyler, Welcome back to the show.
0:59
Speaker 1: I was looking back through the archives. The last time
1:01
Speaker 1: we talked was January, I believe, before Iowa came to
1:07
Speaker 1: Assembly Hall. I want to talk briefly about that game
1:10
Speaker 1: for a second, because I feel like it was a
1:12
Speaker 1: pretty important game for both teams and for Indiana. It
1:15
Speaker 1: turned out to be a game that I think in
1:18
Speaker 1: many ways cost them an NCAA tournament. Bit. But first
1:21
Speaker 1: of all, welcome back to the show. Tyler. How you doing.
1:24
Speaker 1: Always good to talk to you in the in the
1:26
Speaker 1: video version of the podcast. Always good to see you
1:28
Speaker 1: as well.
1:29
Speaker 2: I'm doing a lot better now that I've learned I'm
1:31
Speaker 2: inside the Hall Hall of Famer, So I was not
1:34
Speaker 2: aware of that before. I've just been alerted, and I
1:37
Speaker 2: have to say that's probably the greatest honor of my life.
1:40
Speaker 1: So I think it's I'm the one that gets Actually
1:43
Speaker 1: I'm the sole person that inducts people. So I actually
1:46
Speaker 1: just inducted you like two minutes ago.
1:49
Speaker 2: So now can that be revoked? Can it be revoked?
1:53
Speaker 2: That's the bigger question, because it could be, but I
1:57
Speaker 2: don't think it will be. You put in two was
2:01
Speaker 2: it two years?
2:01
Speaker 1: He wrote for us? It was to two of the
2:05
Speaker 1: more fun years I can remember, even though it was
2:08
Speaker 1: different times then with battling. I remember you went to
2:12
Speaker 1: the malle Invitational in was that Ashville, North Carolina? That
2:16
Speaker 1: was maybe the most bizarre Malley Invitational to ever take place.
2:21
Speaker 1: But some other you also had the season. What there
2:24
Speaker 1: was the cardboard figures in the stands? Is that right? Yep?
2:27
Speaker 2: When yeah, they're soldad And it was at the very
2:30
Speaker 2: end of the season they played the Big Ten Tournament
2:33
Speaker 2: at Lucas Oil when they were finally fans there and
2:37
Speaker 2: it was basically like a home game for Indiana and
2:40
Speaker 2: then they lost to Rutgers in the first game.
2:42
Speaker 1: So oh that was Rutgers. Okay, I kind of remember
2:45
Speaker 1: that that was the end of Archie, right, that was
2:47
Speaker 1: that was it? That was his last game. Yep, yeah, okay, okay,
2:51
Speaker 1: So you're done with another season covering Iowa sports. Obviously
2:57
Speaker 1: football is typically the story there, but this year basketball
3:01
Speaker 1: obviously with a surprising run. But I want to go
3:04
Speaker 1: back to that that game in January to me, and
3:09
Speaker 1: I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this was one
3:11
Speaker 1: of the more strange environments I can ever remember for
3:14
Speaker 1: a Big ten home game in Indiana on a Saturday
3:16
Speaker 1: and on a weekend. Usually those games are, you know,
3:21
Speaker 1: a really good crowd, really juiced up atmosphere, and Indiana
3:26
Speaker 1: was in the midst of its college football playoff run,
3:29
Speaker 1: and the fan base was, obviously for good reason, totally
3:33
Speaker 1: invested in the football program, not a lot of buzz
3:35
Speaker 1: about basketball. And they came out that day and the
3:39
Speaker 1: performance was in many ways indicative of kind of how
3:42
Speaker 1: the crowd was for that game. It would just got
3:44
Speaker 1: lack of lack of buzz in the building and not
3:47
Speaker 1: a lot of juice in the court from the Hoosiers.
3:50
Speaker 1: You've covered a ton of games at Assembly Hall, You've
3:53
Speaker 1: been there when things have been kind of at a
3:55
Speaker 1: fever pitch, do you agree, Like looking back at that,
3:59
Speaker 1: was that one of the weder games, and just in
4:01
Speaker 1: terms of atmosphere that you can remember, even from a
4:03
Speaker 1: media perspective, I think there was like three or four
4:06
Speaker 1: people that cover i You regularly that were even there.
4:09
Speaker 1: Everyone else was at the CFP. There wasn't a ton
4:11
Speaker 1: of media. It was just an odd circumstance.
4:14
Speaker 2: What I would did a great job of was not
4:16
Speaker 2: really letting the crowd get into it at all. There
4:19
Speaker 2: was they kind of controlled the pace pretty early and
4:24
Speaker 2: they didn't give Indiana a chance. They didn't give the
4:27
Speaker 2: crowd a great opportunity to get into the game. So
4:29
Speaker 2: I think that was a credit on I was part
4:31
Speaker 2: and what I remember from that game. Yeah, the atmosphere.
4:34
Speaker 2: It was a weird atmosphere, just like you said, all
4:36
Speaker 2: those different factors and it was like, if I remember correctly,
4:40
Speaker 2: kind of the point in Indiana season where things kind
4:43
Speaker 2: of started to take a nose dive in the wrong direction,
4:46
Speaker 2: because that was a game where you're playing against an
4:50
Speaker 2: Iowa program with there's there end of reason. Ben mccullumar
4:54
Speaker 2: are always going to kind of be compared to each other.
4:57
Speaker 2: They're both from Iowa, they both were hired in the
4:59
Speaker 2: same cycle to their respective Big Ten schools, and this
5:03
Speaker 2: was one like, Okay, if Indiana is a NCAA tournament team,
5:07
Speaker 2: this is the type of game that they're gonna have
5:09
Speaker 2: to win. And i would ended up it was a
5:12
Speaker 2: pretty decisive win because of the way i was able
5:15
Speaker 2: to pull away in the second half. But what I
5:17
Speaker 2: remember from that game was I Would did a tremendous
5:20
Speaker 2: job guarding Lamar Wilkerson because he was one of those
5:23
Speaker 2: guys that just could go nuclear carried Indiana offensively, and
5:28
Speaker 2: I would basically took him out of the game from
5:31
Speaker 2: an offensive standpoint. Tayton Connaway got downhill, but i Would
5:35
Speaker 2: did a great job of staying attached to the shooters.
5:38
Speaker 2: And then by far and away, the best player on
5:41
Speaker 2: the floor was Bennett Sturtz and Tavon Banks. Both of
5:44
Speaker 2: them had a tremendous game. So yeah, I think it
5:49
Speaker 2: kind of showed the gap between like where IWA was
5:51
Speaker 2: and Indiana was so early in those tenures where i
5:55
Speaker 2: would kind of had that kind of killer instinct in
5:58
Speaker 2: that edge to him in Indiana, just there was just
6:02
Speaker 2: something missing, I think pretty obviously in that first season
6:06
Speaker 2: under Darren Debrieves.
6:08
Speaker 1: So fast forward obviously to a couple of months after that,
6:11
Speaker 1: Iowa goes on a really incredible NCAA tournament run. I know,
6:17
Speaker 1: Nebraska's celebrating their sweet sixteen run with I think a
6:20
Speaker 1: movie now and a whole I don't know exactly that.
6:22
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to be like a
6:24
Speaker 1: six part docu series on Netflix or what it's going
6:27
Speaker 1: to be. But I kid, but people forget Iowa actually
6:31
Speaker 1: beat Nebraska. I made to the Elite eight and then
6:33
Speaker 1: before following obviously to Illinois, but Iowa had one of
6:37
Speaker 1: the better wins of the tournament beating Florida, knocking them
6:40
Speaker 1: off and having a chance to make a Final four,
6:43
Speaker 1: got to the Elite eight, and obviously, I think a
6:46
Speaker 1: lot of people, myself included, give a ton of credit
6:50
Speaker 1: to Ben McCollum, but Bennett Steartz was obviously pivotal in
6:54
Speaker 1: that run. And just in terms of how Iowa was
6:57
Speaker 1: able to win those three n C Double Tournament games
7:00
Speaker 1: and make that deep run. Looking forward to next season,
7:06
Speaker 1: how does Iowa maybe reboot, reload from losing starts, because
7:12
Speaker 1: you know he did so much for that. I mean,
7:13
Speaker 1: I look around the Big Ten, I think of different
7:15
Speaker 1: teams and like you think of Jeremy Fears, like he
7:17
Speaker 1: does so much for Michigan State, like he's that's why
7:19
Speaker 1: his coming back was so important. But for Iowa, Bennett
7:22
Speaker 1: Seartch did so much and he's going to be gone.
7:25
Speaker 1: How does Iowa kind of put something in place next season?
7:30
Speaker 1: Obviously the expectation can't be an Elite eight again, but
7:33
Speaker 1: how do they avoid a fall off from where they
7:35
Speaker 1: were this past season.
7:37
Speaker 2: The Ben McCollum has a track record going back to
7:40
Speaker 2: his days at Northwest Missouri State of being able to
7:43
Speaker 2: replace really good guards. That's kind of a reputation he
7:46
Speaker 2: has of being able to develop and produce elite guards.
7:51
Speaker 2: Before Bennett Sturtz, they were guys like Diego Bernard, Trevor
7:55
Speaker 2: Hodgens and Guy Justin Pitt's guys before. So he's there's
8:00
Speaker 2: been a lineage leading up to Bennett Sturtz, and Bennett
8:04
Speaker 2: Sturts is going to be kind of the crowning jewel
8:07
Speaker 2: that people really see because he did it at the
8:10
Speaker 2: Big ten level, but there's been a progression of guys
8:14
Speaker 2: that Ben McCallum has had, so there's optimism that there
8:17
Speaker 2: will be another one. Bennett starts just isn't going to
8:19
Speaker 2: be the last really good guard that Ben McCollum coaches.
8:23
Speaker 2: But looking at next season's roster, it's gonna be different
8:26
Speaker 2: because last season, Bennett Sturtz did so much heavy lifting,
8:30
Speaker 2: whether that be with his production or just how much
8:33
Speaker 2: attention he garnered from opposing defenses and how that opened
8:38
Speaker 2: up opportunities for other guys. Now Iowa has ten guys returning,
8:42
Speaker 2: so they did a really good job in retention and
8:44
Speaker 2: being able to keep a core group of especially some
8:48
Speaker 2: younger players in nucleus that gain meaningful experience last season.
8:52
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a much more balanced group.
8:55
Speaker 2: It's going to be maybe you have four guys who
8:58
Speaker 2: are averaging in double figures versus last season where Bennett's
9:03
Speaker 2: Sturtz was just clearing away the number one option. I
9:06
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of different guys that could make
9:08
Speaker 2: a jump from last season to this upcoming season, and
9:11
Speaker 2: it's just going to be, at least on paper, a
9:14
Speaker 2: roster that's just much more balanced. Scoring wise and offensively
9:18
Speaker 2: than it was last season when so much of that
9:21
Speaker 2: was put on Bennett Sturch's shoulders.
9:23
Speaker 1: So yeah, you make some great points just about Starts
9:26
Speaker 1: and the history that McCollum's had with different guards, and
9:31
Speaker 1: I think there's obviously he's earned that McCollum based on
9:35
Speaker 1: what he did obviously at the D two level and
9:37
Speaker 1: then this season definitely overachieving with what they were able
9:41
Speaker 1: to do in his first season at Iowa City. I
9:44
Speaker 1: wanted to briefly touch on what Iowa was able to
9:47
Speaker 1: do in the transfer portal because you know, one of
9:50
Speaker 1: the things I do in the offseason is tracked all
9:53
Speaker 1: the big ten rosters and kind of look at who's
9:55
Speaker 1: coming and going. And with Iowa specifically, really in terms
10:00
Speaker 1: of guys that had eligibility left, I believe they only
10:03
Speaker 1: had one guy going the portal. So you mentioned the
10:05
Speaker 1: roster attention. They have ten players coming back and then
10:08
Speaker 1: they lose I believe, was it Tavian Banks is basically
10:11
Speaker 1: graduated and then Starts is off to the NBA graduated
10:15
Speaker 1: as well, But they brought in two players from the
10:17
Speaker 1: transfer portal. Is there optimism with those two guys that
10:21
Speaker 1: they can kind of be like obviously not a seamless
10:25
Speaker 1: transition because you don't replace. You look at the mock
10:28
Speaker 1: drafts and a lot of them have stirts somewhere in
10:30
Speaker 1: the top twenty, top twenty five, even higher and some.
10:33
Speaker 1: But with the two guys that they brought in and
10:36
Speaker 1: what they lost, what's the feeling like, just in terms
10:39
Speaker 1: of those who follow the team and who followed closely
10:43
Speaker 1: there in Iowa City, just in terms of how those
10:46
Speaker 1: two pieces are going to fit into the rotation. They
10:49
Speaker 1: brought in Andrew McKeever from Saint Mary's seven foot three
10:52
Speaker 1: big man, and that was much like Indiana Iowa struggle.
10:57
Speaker 1: They just were undersized. They didn't have enough size for
11:01
Speaker 1: what it is needed in the Big ten. Now iwould
11:03
Speaker 1: did a much better job of making up for that
11:07
Speaker 1: than Indiana did, But that was an obvious need for
11:10
Speaker 1: Iowo this offseason and they got that in seven to three.
11:15
Speaker 1: He's going to help them a lot rebounding, which was
11:18
Speaker 1: an area that they needed to get better at, and
11:20
Speaker 1: also just his ability to trigger offense to be a processor.
11:25
Speaker 1: He's a good passer, so he's not someone that is
11:28
Speaker 1: one dimensional. I think he's gonna be a big help.
11:31
Speaker 1: Just that was kind of I was number one need
11:33
Speaker 1: this offseason and they were able to get it done.
11:36
Speaker 1: The other guy, Tyreek Coleman from Illinois State. He had
11:39
Speaker 1: a good freshman season there. He's someone that Ben McCollum
11:43
Speaker 1: thinks that if he had stayed another season at Illinois State,
11:46
Speaker 1: he probably would have averaged eighteen to twenty points as
11:49
Speaker 1: a sophomore. Instead goes in the portal. I think he's
11:52
Speaker 1: going to be really good for Iowa long term. How
11:56
Speaker 1: that shakes out this upcoming season, I'm a little bit
12:00
Speaker 1: less certain on. But he's a kind of quick, quick,
12:04
Speaker 1: twitchy guard really fast. So he's I think someone that
12:07
Speaker 1: he comes in with three seasons of eligibility left and
12:10
Speaker 1: someone that you feel good that Ben McCollum can develop
12:13
Speaker 1: over the course of several years. So and then two
12:16
Speaker 1: freshmen coming in, both four star guys, and that's what
12:19
Speaker 1: I think makes it really interesting with Ben McCallum moving forward,
12:22
Speaker 1: is like he took a team to the Elite eight
12:25
Speaker 1: that was made up of mostly guys who were originally
12:28
Speaker 1: mid major guys. Bennett Starts was a D two guy,
12:31
Speaker 1: Tavon Banks was a JUCO guy. Now, what can he
12:34
Speaker 1: do when he starts to get legit power five talent
12:39
Speaker 1: and you have two four stars coming in, you have
12:42
Speaker 1: Trey Thompson who was a four star who red shirted
12:45
Speaker 1: last season. So that's why there's a lot of optimism
12:48
Speaker 1: in Iowa City. It's just because when the talent is
12:51
Speaker 1: going to start to catch up with the coaching and
12:55
Speaker 1: the success that Ben McCollum has had, then it's like, Okay,
12:58
Speaker 1: how far can he take this? Because he took.
13:01
Speaker 2: Them kind of beyond, way beyond expectations in year one
13:04
Speaker 2: with a talent pool that was, you know, middle to
13:08
Speaker 2: lower the pack in the Big Ten.
13:10
Speaker 1: So after the Elite eight run, like, the hierarchy in
13:13
Speaker 1: Iowa City's kind of been in recent history in my mind,
13:15
Speaker 1: Iowa football and Iowa women's basketball at the top, and
13:18
Speaker 1: then men's basketball kind of a distant third. How much
13:21
Speaker 1: did this season them making the Elite Eight kind of
13:24
Speaker 1: close the gap between those and how like is it
13:28
Speaker 1: still are people still more invested in the other two
13:32
Speaker 1: programs and is it going to take time for men's
13:33
Speaker 1: basketball to catch up or did this season kind of
13:36
Speaker 1: get people back in because there's so many years there
13:38
Speaker 1: with Fran McCaffrey where it was like IOW would make
13:41
Speaker 1: the tournament, but then I don't think they ever made
13:42
Speaker 1: the Sweet sixteen under Fran. So then McCallum comes and
13:45
Speaker 1: does it in its first year and gets to the
13:47
Speaker 1: Elite eight. So I feel like that obviously he's going
13:49
Speaker 1: to give him a boost. But i was one of
13:52
Speaker 1: those few schools where the women's basketball program obviously was
13:54
Speaker 1: what Caitlyn Clark did there, there's a ton of excitement there.
13:59
Speaker 1: And then the football has been historically good for a
14:01
Speaker 1: long time, not maybe not consistently in the college football playoffs,
14:07
Speaker 1: but the team that you know is in or near
14:09
Speaker 1: the top twenty five on a year in year out basis.
14:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the really big storylines going into then
14:14
Speaker 2: McCollums first season was like just getting the fan base
14:19
Speaker 2: re energized, engaged, because that was an issue toward the
14:22
Speaker 2: end of the Fran McCaffrey era, where people their apathy
14:25
Speaker 2: was growing and there was disinterest, people were kind of
14:29
Speaker 2: distancing themselves from the program. And the fact that IOWA
14:34
Speaker 2: went to the Elite it's the first time they had
14:36
Speaker 2: been there since nineteen eighty seven. So the fact that
14:39
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, This is something that covers college
14:42
Speaker 2: of basketball. That success in March is important for any program,
14:46
Speaker 2: and that's something that Indiana has lacked, but even more
14:49
Speaker 2: so for a program like I Weill, where there were
14:52
Speaker 2: those struggles under Fran McCaffrey and there wasn't that kind
14:56
Speaker 2: of magical run that really got people to reinvest in
14:59
Speaker 2: the p So the fact that that happened in year one,
15:02
Speaker 2: that I was able to make such a deep run
15:06
Speaker 2: in the tournament was just huge for getting the fan
15:08
Speaker 2: base bought back in and it was already trending in
15:11
Speaker 2: the right direction, Like simply making the NCAA tournament was
15:15
Speaker 2: a step in the right direction. That's something I hadn't
15:18
Speaker 2: done since twenty twenty three. But then to go on
15:22
Speaker 2: the run that they did kind of just took things
15:24
Speaker 2: to a whole different level. It is a gap totally
15:27
Speaker 2: closed between men's basketball, women's basketball, and football. I don't
15:30
Speaker 2: think it's quite there yet, but it is in an
15:33
Speaker 2: exponentially better place than it was at this time two
15:36
Speaker 2: years ago when Fran McCaffrey was still at the Helm.
15:40
Speaker 1: So obviously want to talk to you about the Big
15:43
Speaker 1: Ten at large, because I know we text about the
15:46
Speaker 1: season I know you watch different games. I know you
15:48
Speaker 1: watch different programs, and you just to watch a ton
15:50
Speaker 1: of college basketball in general, and there's so much movement,
15:55
Speaker 1: I feel like in the Big Ten and just in
15:56
Speaker 1: college basketball in general these days, it's hard to keep
15:58
Speaker 1: up with rosters. I'm going through an exercise right now
16:01
Speaker 1: where we're gonna, starting early next week, we're gonna start
16:04
Speaker 1: going through all the Big Ten teams and doing like
16:08
Speaker 1: an offseason synopsis post for all of them and just
16:12
Speaker 1: kind of looking at what's coming and going and out
16:14
Speaker 1: an early outlook, because i feel like one of the
16:17
Speaker 1: things it's hard for Big Ten fans to do at
16:19
Speaker 1: this point is is know who's on their team on
16:20
Speaker 1: a year in, year out basis. And you know, Indiana fans,
16:23
Speaker 1: obviously they follow the program that they follow the other
16:26
Speaker 1: teams around the league and as well, and so I
16:29
Speaker 1: kind of like to keep them informed as well on
16:33
Speaker 1: the other programs around the conference. But I'm curious, just
16:37
Speaker 1: for your point of view on now that the Big
16:41
Speaker 1: Ten's like kind of got the national championship drought thing
16:45
Speaker 1: out of the way. I feel like that's something like
16:47
Speaker 1: I've talked about constantly for so many years I've just
16:49
Speaker 1: like tried to wonder it's the Big Ten I ever
16:52
Speaker 1: gonna win a title again? You know, I was there
16:53
Speaker 1: actually the last time they won it was in two thousand,
16:55
Speaker 1: I was a senior in high school. They beat Michigan's
16:59
Speaker 1: our Michigan State Florida in Indianapolis and won the national championship.
17:03
Speaker 1: And so Michigan finally ends a drought twenty six years later.
17:06
Speaker 1: So I feel like the Big Ten like is finally
17:09
Speaker 1: like validated on the national stage again. Even though I
17:12
Speaker 1: think all of us that covered the league and watched
17:14
Speaker 1: it for so many years, like know that it's been
17:17
Speaker 1: a really good league and as competitive, you know. I
17:19
Speaker 1: think the thing that in my mind that sets the
17:21
Speaker 1: Big Ten apart from some of the other leagues. I
17:24
Speaker 1: know you watch a lot of ACC as well, but
17:26
Speaker 1: there doesn't seem to be in the Big Ten like
17:28
Speaker 1: a road game that you can go look at on
17:31
Speaker 1: the calendar and say or for sure gonna go win
17:33
Speaker 1: that game. I feel like in some of the other leagues,
17:35
Speaker 1: like for the ACC example, like if you're gonna go
17:37
Speaker 1: play at Boston College, you feel pretty good like you're
17:40
Speaker 1: gonna go win that game. But in the Big Ten,
17:43
Speaker 1: like Rutgers last season, was a terrible team for the
17:46
Speaker 1: most part, and it was still a tough place to
17:50
Speaker 1: win for a lot of teams, and they were able
17:51
Speaker 1: to knock teams up. Penn State's another one that every
17:54
Speaker 1: year that environment is sterile and there's not a lot
17:59
Speaker 1: of people that show up to games, but I feel
18:00
Speaker 1: like they always knock off a top team or two
18:04
Speaker 1: or give someone a tough game. So what did you
18:08
Speaker 1: make of the Big Ten finally breaking through in terms
18:10
Speaker 1: of winning the championship? Do you think it was just
18:13
Speaker 1: kind of a fluke that they didn't win for so
18:15
Speaker 1: many years and looking forward to next season as you
18:18
Speaker 1: look kind of through the rosters, who maybe stands out
18:21
Speaker 1: on paper as being a team that you're intrigued by
18:25
Speaker 1: or think has a chance to kind of get back
18:27
Speaker 1: there to the final four again next year.
18:29
Speaker 2: And I mean, the Big Ten had two teams in
18:31
Speaker 2: the final four. It wasn't just a national champion, and
18:34
Speaker 2: you had Iowa and Illinois playing in the Elite eight,
18:38
Speaker 2: So it wasn't just I don't think that Michigan want
18:41
Speaker 2: at all, but you saw I think kind of the
18:43
Speaker 2: volume of teams that have the ability to make deep
18:46
Speaker 2: runs in the tournament. When I look at next season,
18:50
Speaker 2: I mean you have to think Illinois probably the front
18:52
Speaker 2: runner to be the Big Ten favorite, right, I mean
18:55
Speaker 2: them probably in Michigan. But with Illinois bringing back Stoyakovich,
18:59
Speaker 2: the vsich Brothers with David Murkovic, and then Quent bringing
19:04
Speaker 2: in Quenton Coleman a freshman, I mean to me, probably
19:08
Speaker 2: on paper there there it's it's their league to lose.
19:12
Speaker 2: But you know, Michigan also you bring back Elliott Cando.
19:17
Speaker 2: Trey McKenny is a guy that you would expect to
19:19
Speaker 2: make a huge jump as a sophomore. I mean, what
19:22
Speaker 2: do you think, because to me, those are the couple
19:24
Speaker 2: that probably stand out immediately in my mind.
19:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking at Torvik and he's got Michigan
19:31
Speaker 1: State actually at the top, which I think there's an
19:33
Speaker 1: argument for them as well because of Jeremy Fears and
19:35
Speaker 1: what you know. I think there's gonna be a lot
19:37
Speaker 1: of preseason buzz for Jeremy Fears as a like preseason
19:40
Speaker 1: Big Ten Player of the Year type of player. But
19:42
Speaker 1: I agree with you on those teams. Michigan's interesting to
19:48
Speaker 1: me because I think they're gonna be really good. But
19:52
Speaker 1: I also think this They were so dominant last season
19:56
Speaker 1: that there's obviously gonna be an inevitable step back. I
19:59
Speaker 1: just wonder how far of a step back it's going
20:02
Speaker 1: to be. And their front court is really where I
20:04
Speaker 1: have the question. Obviously, they got a couple guys out
20:07
Speaker 1: of the transfer portal that we're both highly claiming. JP Astrella,
20:11
Speaker 1: the kid from Tennessee that I think a lot of
20:13
Speaker 1: people are excited about. And the big guy I'm not
20:17
Speaker 1: going to attempt to say is his last name. I
20:19
Speaker 1: think it's them from Cincinnati. He was one of the
20:22
Speaker 1: more coveted guys from the portal. Just another I think
20:26
Speaker 1: seven to two, seven to three guy that is going
20:28
Speaker 1: to obviously be able to do a lot of things.
20:30
Speaker 1: Had a really solid year last year at Cincinnati. But
20:33
Speaker 1: going from a Demarra Moreg Johnson and Lindaborg to that,
20:38
Speaker 1: I think there's got to be some type of drop off.
20:40
Speaker 1: I think it really helps that Kado Kudo excuse me
20:43
Speaker 1: as come back, and then Trey McKinney, and I know
20:46
Speaker 1: they also got another highly acclaimed freshman, a five star
20:49
Speaker 1: kid by the name of McCoy that's going to come in.
20:51
Speaker 1: I think is going to be a guy that gives
20:53
Speaker 1: them a ton of minutes right away. But yeah, I
20:57
Speaker 1: think any of those three teams are intriguing. It's interesting
21:00
Speaker 1: to me. I was looking at Lenardi's like early projections
21:04
Speaker 1: for the bracket, which again take it with a grain
21:07
Speaker 1: of stalt, but he is trying to put together a
21:11
Speaker 1: bracket at this point in time of seventy six teams.
21:15
Speaker 1: The thing is it opens it up for even more
21:16
Speaker 1: Big ten teams. Now that we have the expansion. I
21:19
Speaker 1: think a couple more Big ten teams are gonna sneak
21:21
Speaker 1: in there. So I think I don't think it's inconceivable
21:24
Speaker 1: that you could see eleven or twelve Big ten teams
21:27
Speaker 1: in the NCAA Tournament next year, which is crazy to
21:29
Speaker 1: think about. But I think for the Big ten, you're
21:33
Speaker 1: excited about the expansion because it just gives you more
21:35
Speaker 1: shots to get teams in and get wins. But yeah,
21:39
Speaker 1: those are the teams that I look at. I mean,
21:41
Speaker 1: I'm looking at Torviik right now. I mean Illinois. They've
21:43
Speaker 1: got Illinois. He's got Illinois, fourth, Michigan sixth, Michigan State seven.
21:49
Speaker 1: Then to me, it gets interesting because he's got Nebraska
21:52
Speaker 1: at fourteen. That's one team I wanted to get your
21:54
Speaker 1: thoughts on Nebraska. I think they're gonna be good. And
21:59
Speaker 1: price stand is a guy that I thought was terrific
22:03
Speaker 1: last season. I mean, he he made He was good
22:06
Speaker 1: at Iowa, but he made elite to be like a
22:09
Speaker 1: really elite player last season at Nebraska. I thought he
22:12
Speaker 1: was right there in the mix for all Big Ten
22:15
Speaker 1: first team. He was one of the guys that think
22:16
Speaker 1: got debated. I'm not sure if he landed on first
22:18
Speaker 1: team or second team about seasons in, I think he
22:20
Speaker 1: was right there on the cut line. But Nebraska, to me,
22:25
Speaker 1: losing Hoiberg and mast those are two pretty big losses
22:31
Speaker 1: just based on the intangibles those guys brought. What do
22:33
Speaker 1: you think about just kind of that next tier of teams,
22:36
Speaker 1: I mean some of the teams that are at least
22:39
Speaker 1: hypothetically in that mix. According again, these are early projections,
22:42
Speaker 1: but I feel like at least with Torvik, he's got
22:47
Speaker 1: obviously it's a formula that's used to his ratings are
22:50
Speaker 1: using the selection process, but I also feel like he's
22:53
Speaker 1: got enough historical data where he can plug things in
22:55
Speaker 1: and use stats from previous years and guys that are
22:58
Speaker 1: in there to at least give you kind of a baseline.
23:00
Speaker 1: He's got Nebraska fourth, Ohio State fifth, Ucla, then Indiana, Purdue,
23:05
Speaker 1: usc Maryland, and Iowa, Oregon, Wisconsin, and then there's a
23:11
Speaker 1: huge drop there's Wisconsin's forty four, and then it drops
23:14
Speaker 1: all the way down to Washington. So I feel like
23:17
Speaker 1: he's kind of got a pretty big logjam there in
23:19
Speaker 1: the middle with those seven or eight teams. Is there
23:22
Speaker 1: anyone that you look at from that group that is intriguing?
23:26
Speaker 1: You know, I mentioned Nebraska, but another team that I'm
23:28
Speaker 1: looking at and I'm just wondering what's gonna look like
23:30
Speaker 1: is Purdue. Yeah.
23:31
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I was gonna say that, but first starting off
23:34
Speaker 2: with Nebraska, That's that's one that's difficult for me to
23:37
Speaker 2: read because it was one last season where on paper,
23:40
Speaker 2: you look at the roster and you're like, Eh, I'm
23:42
Speaker 2: not so sure about this. They don't have a ton
23:44
Speaker 2: of talent, but they just played together that you could
23:48
Speaker 2: tell that they were bought in. They're unselfish, and they
23:51
Speaker 2: were one that kind of outperformed Maybe what you would
23:55
Speaker 2: look at when you just look at the roster at
23:56
Speaker 2: the beginning of the season, I think Price Sanford has
23:59
Speaker 2: the case to be in the running for like preseason
24:03
Speaker 2: Big Ten Player of the Year. He's that good and
24:06
Speaker 2: just his ability to be a microwave score in a
24:09
Speaker 2: way that they use him running off of screens and
24:11
Speaker 2: stuff like that.
24:12
Speaker 1: It's just really difficult to guard him.
24:16
Speaker 2: So but that's a you know, in Nebraska is an
24:18
Speaker 2: interesting one because it's like how much do the guys
24:21
Speaker 2: that they were able to keep a Braiden Frager, a
24:24
Speaker 2: Price Sandford. You have Connor a Siegon coming back who's
24:29
Speaker 2: coming out of the injury hiatus. You know kind of
24:32
Speaker 2: forgot about him a little bit, but you know, are
24:35
Speaker 2: they able to overperform maybe what their talent level on
24:38
Speaker 2: paper says? And then you mentioned Perdue. That's a real
24:41
Speaker 2: fascinating one for me because you lose the big three
24:44
Speaker 2: in Trey Kaufman, Wren, Braiden Smith and Fletcher Lawyer who
24:48
Speaker 2: would just stap was there, and it's like, Okay, who
24:52
Speaker 2: are kind of the next guys to lead that program forward?
24:55
Speaker 2: Because even when Zach Edy left there was like, Okay,
24:58
Speaker 2: you still have Braiden Smith. Now is it gonna be CJ. Cox,
25:02
Speaker 2: Jakari Harris, Daniel Jacobson omer Meyer. To me, it's not
25:07
Speaker 2: as it doesn't look like as seamless of a transition
25:11
Speaker 2: into being the Purdue Jugger or not that's been expected.
25:15
Speaker 2: I think they still can be good, but it's just
25:18
Speaker 2: I just don't see it as smooth as a pathway.
25:21
Speaker 2: Maybe that's my Indian a graduate coming out a little bit,
25:25
Speaker 2: But yeah, those two teams are really interesting. And then
25:30
Speaker 2: I was also thinking about, like, who do you think
25:31
Speaker 2: the Nebraska of this season might be? Because last season,
25:36
Speaker 2: coming into the season, at least from like a more
25:39
Speaker 2: Big Ten national perspective, there wasn't a whole lot of
25:43
Speaker 2: buzzer around them, right, and then they start had that
25:45
Speaker 2: undefeated start, go to the sweet sixteen, Like, is there
25:49
Speaker 2: a Nebraska in the Big Ten where people are kind
25:52
Speaker 2: of sleeping on right now? And maybe they don't get
25:54
Speaker 2: to the sweet sixteen, but they overachieve what people are
25:57
Speaker 2: expecting initially.
25:58
Speaker 1: That's a tough question answer, just because I don't think
26:01
Speaker 1: if we had this conversation last year, I thought we
26:03
Speaker 1: I don't think either one of us would have said
26:07
Speaker 1: even top twelve for Nebraska a season ago at this point, right,
26:10
Speaker 1: So it's it's it's you're kind of you know, if
26:15
Speaker 1: we if we knew who that was going to be,
26:16
Speaker 1: we we could you know, we could probably pass some
26:21
Speaker 1: tips onto to those in Vegas to juice up the
26:24
Speaker 1: odds on some of those teams. But you know, I
26:30
Speaker 1: it's tough like the teams to me that look low,
26:35
Speaker 1: like that i that I mentioned that I just wonder about,
26:39
Speaker 1: Like Iowa to Iowa at forty one. Let's see, that's third,
26:45
Speaker 1: fourth six, that's like tenth or eleventh and Torvic in
26:49
Speaker 1: the big ten. To me, that seems low for Iowa
26:52
Speaker 1: because now that I know that losing starts. But now
26:57
Speaker 1: that we've seen kind of what McCollum can do, and
27:00
Speaker 1: admittedly I don't love the style of play at times
27:05
Speaker 1: to watch it because I feel like I'll be interested
27:09
Speaker 1: to see, like if as McCollum gets more talented players,
27:12
Speaker 1: more athletic, if he kind of changes that up and
27:14
Speaker 1: plays more of the fast up tempo style. But I
27:17
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of ways I would just grinded
27:21
Speaker 1: teams down and beat them a lot of it mentally
27:23
Speaker 1: because they just they were just a tougher team mentally,
27:27
Speaker 1: and they were disciplined, and they beat teams that way.
27:30
Speaker 1: So I don't think that's going away because Bennett Sturtz
27:33
Speaker 1: is gone. I think they're going to be that same
27:35
Speaker 1: type of tough team and tough to play against and
27:38
Speaker 1: tough to beat. And the other team I look at
27:41
Speaker 1: that's low is Wisconsin because people every year I feel like,
27:47
Speaker 1: I think this is like the year Wisconsin is going
27:49
Speaker 1: to take a step backward. And a couple of years
27:52
Speaker 1: ago it was, oh, they're not going to be as good.
27:55
Speaker 1: Chucky Hepburn is gone, he left for Louisville. Well, John
27:58
Speaker 1: Tanji came in right and all of a sudden they
28:00
Speaker 1: were he was right up their first team all Big ten.
28:03
Speaker 1: And then this past year it was how how do
28:08
Speaker 1: they replace Tanji? Oh, well, Nick Boyd came in and
28:10
Speaker 1: they also they retained Blackwell for last year. Now Blackwell's gone,
28:15
Speaker 1: and I think we're gonna kind of see that some
28:17
Speaker 1: of those same conversations, and I think that's going to
28:20
Speaker 1: cause people to underrate Wisconsin. So just because I think
28:25
Speaker 1: Ben McCollum and Greg Garter are two really good coaches.
28:28
Speaker 1: If I had to pick, like from the middle of
28:30
Speaker 1: the pack on those teams, I think Iowa and Wisconsin
28:34
Speaker 1: are teams that can overperform where they are right now
28:37
Speaker 1: in those rankings. The teams another team that I think
28:41
Speaker 1: is going to be pretty good, but they have a
28:45
Speaker 1: ton of talent, so they should be good or there
28:47
Speaker 1: there should be some questions about the coaching job that
28:51
Speaker 1: it's being done there usc they have. You look at
28:54
Speaker 1: them on paper, they should have a fully healthy season
28:58
Speaker 1: out of Elijah Arenas. Jacob Kofe, who played really well
29:02
Speaker 1: in the G League Combine got invited to the NBA Draft.
29:06
Speaker 1: Combine as a result, is back. Rodney Rice coming off
29:10
Speaker 1: an injury, should be back. People forget a couple of
29:13
Speaker 1: years ago he was outstanding at Maryland helped them in
29:16
Speaker 1: their NCAA tournament run. Then they add I believe three
29:20
Speaker 1: recruits that were in the top I think twenty five
29:24
Speaker 1: nationally in the rat Lift Twins and Christian Collins. They
29:27
Speaker 1: also bring in Eric Ryby from Yukon, so they look
29:32
Speaker 1: like they're loaded just in terms of the front court.
29:34
Speaker 1: I mean Kofi Ryby and the Ratleft Twins. I mean,
29:38
Speaker 1: you talk about front court depth that that's going to
29:41
Speaker 1: be tough to play against, and you throw in the
29:43
Speaker 1: fact that Arenas and Rodney Rice are going to be there.
29:46
Speaker 1: I think they're a team that people are probably going
29:50
Speaker 1: to maybe underrate a little bit in the preseason. Well
29:52
Speaker 1: at least I think these ranking. You know, I wouldn't
29:55
Speaker 1: have them below Indiana and Purdue. I'm not sure i'd
29:57
Speaker 1: have them blow UCLA, Ohio, Ohio States and one. To me,
30:01
Speaker 1: I think they can be really good. But they also
30:05
Speaker 1: lost Bruce Thornton, so that's a pretty tough departure to overcome.
30:10
Speaker 1: So long winded thoughts there any Do you have any
30:14
Speaker 1: response to some of those teams and kind of what
30:16
Speaker 1: you think on a few of those.
30:18
Speaker 2: No, I agree with you on USC, but my hold
30:21
Speaker 2: up there is kind of the same as it is
30:24
Speaker 2: with Danny Sprinclove Washington, is that both of those programs
30:28
Speaker 2: have had talent and they haven't gone anywhere with them
30:32
Speaker 2: in those respective jobs. Like, talent wasn't the issue last
30:35
Speaker 2: season at USC, and they under they kind of fell
30:38
Speaker 2: apart down the stretch, didn't even make the NCAA tournament.
30:41
Speaker 1: Well, I think part of that too was the gamble
30:43
Speaker 1: on Baker Mazar Right, that always had a chance to
30:46
Speaker 1: be like boom or bust. Well, it works for a
30:48
Speaker 1: little bit and then right it was okay, so it
30:50
Speaker 1: wasn't good and then he was like off the team,
30:52
Speaker 1: so and then it imploded. No I do.
30:55
Speaker 2: I do like USC's roster, but it's one of those
30:58
Speaker 2: things that I'm just hesitant of muscle men just I mean,
31:01
Speaker 2: they just haven't had a ton of success there. The
31:05
Speaker 2: team that I'm I'm intrigued by. I wouldn't like buy
31:08
Speaker 2: a bunch of stock in them, I'm just intrigued by
31:10
Speaker 2: them is Minnesota because I feel like Nico Medvev did
31:13
Speaker 2: a pretty good job in year one. They were just
31:16
Speaker 2: like decimated with injuries, but they remain fairly competitive. They Isaac,
31:21
Speaker 2: they have Isaac Osma coming back, Jalen Crocker Johnson, They
31:25
Speaker 2: bring in Kaien Evans who played well under Medved at
31:29
Speaker 2: Colorado State, then he went to North Carolina, just had
31:33
Speaker 2: a bad season there and now is reuniting with him
31:37
Speaker 2: at But.
31:37
Speaker 1: They just they just had one of those guys that
31:39
Speaker 1: had a bad season North Carolina come in and yeah.
31:43
Speaker 2: But that's a team that maybe can they be an
31:47
Speaker 2: NCAA tournament team if if there's an expanded field or
31:54
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not the teams that I just I'm
31:57
Speaker 2: not in on I'm out on right now, or they
32:00
Speaker 2: just have.
32:01
Speaker 1: Like completely out on, like like if you're gonna throw,
32:04
Speaker 1: like if you're gonna I don't want to say, like
32:06
Speaker 1: these teams have no chance to make the tournament, but
32:09
Speaker 1: like if you said these are the the are you
32:11
Speaker 1: are you putting these like teams? Like right now, You're okay,
32:16
Speaker 1: go ahead? Who are they?
32:16
Speaker 2: Moregon just because they just have almost entirely new roster.
32:21
Speaker 2: I know they brought in Jasper Johnson from Kentucky. It's
32:24
Speaker 2: just I don't know, I feel like the Dana Altman
32:26
Speaker 2: train is slowing. And Penn State, Penn State, same thing.
32:31
Speaker 2: They're bringing in new guys, but Mic Rhodes just it
32:34
Speaker 2: hasn't been much success there Rutgers. I mean Steve Pico,
32:39
Speaker 2: the the geo Baker and and uh you know Paul
32:42
Speaker 2: Mkay Hey.
32:43
Speaker 1: Days seem Ron Harper JR.
32:46
Speaker 2: Ron Harp Virginia. Yeah, that those days just seem like
32:50
Speaker 2: a thing of the past now it seems I mean,
32:53
Speaker 2: I'm not there, but it just seems like Rutgers is
32:55
Speaker 2: kind of punning at this point. I Mean, they're they're
32:57
Speaker 2: trying to win, but are they really giving all their
32:59
Speaker 2: resources needed to win?
33:00
Speaker 1: In the Big Ten.
33:01
Speaker 2: I don't think so, probably, And then the other one
33:04
Speaker 2: is like it is Washington.
33:05
Speaker 1: I really like Wesley Yates.
33:08
Speaker 2: But it's the same thing with Sprinkle, where it's just
33:11
Speaker 2: last season the roster they had, I mean, they had
33:14
Speaker 2: Hanna Steinbach, they had Zoom Diallo, they had Wesley Yates,
33:20
Speaker 2: they had guys that Steinbach is going to be a
33:22
Speaker 2: first round pick. Zoom Dialla's at Kentucky now he was
33:25
Speaker 2: a coveted guy in the portal, and they did not
33:28
Speaker 2: have a good season at all, Like they weren't even
33:29
Speaker 2: close to making the tournament. So right now, it's hard
33:32
Speaker 2: for me to trust like what Sprinkle can do. Those
33:36
Speaker 2: are the teams I look at right now as like
33:39
Speaker 2: I'm very, very skeptical of that could end up being
33:42
Speaker 2: at the.
33:42
Speaker 1: Bottom of the league. Yeah, I agree on most of those. Oregon,
33:48
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what to make of
33:50
Speaker 1: Oregon because from the standpoint of Shelstad barely played last year.
33:56
Speaker 1: They obviously lost Kwame Evans who transferred to Villanova, Biddle
34:01
Speaker 1: was hurt for part of the year, but last year
34:03
Speaker 1: their roster was just so lopsided towards like two or
34:07
Speaker 1: three guys that they needed to do everything and they
34:10
Speaker 1: didn't have a good supporting cast. I think, at least
34:12
Speaker 1: with this team, they have some capable pieces. The question
34:17
Speaker 1: that I have is I don't know that they have
34:21
Speaker 1: a go to guy or two that they need. You
34:23
Speaker 1: mentioned Jasper Johnson. They also got a kid from Boise State,
34:26
Speaker 1: Andrew Metta, who I think is pretty good. Tyrone Riley
34:29
Speaker 1: from San Francisco, who I think is going to be
34:31
Speaker 1: a pretty good player for them. All wing average double figures.
34:34
Speaker 1: They got Taylor boll Bowen from Alabama. They got some pieces.
34:40
Speaker 1: They got a guy from Boston College. I think you
34:42
Speaker 1: averaged sixteen points a game, Fred Payne, a guard. Don't
34:45
Speaker 1: know much about him. But the guy that I think
34:48
Speaker 1: a lot of people they are excited about is Dwayne Aristote,
34:50
Speaker 1: who's from Arizona. Was like a fringe five star kid
34:54
Speaker 1: that kind of got lost in the mix and Arizona
34:56
Speaker 1: didn't get to play. So I don't know that I'm
34:59
Speaker 1: completely out on Oregon because they're one of the teams
35:03
Speaker 1: actually and working on writing their preview, and the one
35:07
Speaker 1: thing I looked at with them this was the first
35:10
Speaker 1: time that Altman ever has has had a losing record.
35:15
Speaker 1: I think as a head coach period they were twelve
35:17
Speaker 1: and twenty. It's the first time at Oregon that he
35:19
Speaker 1: hasn't won twenty games, so that's he has a pretty
35:24
Speaker 1: long track record. So I say that they could still
35:28
Speaker 1: be like twelve to thirteenth in the Big Ten and
35:30
Speaker 1: win twenty games and be a French tournament team. I
35:32
Speaker 1: think that's maybe a potential outcome. I agree with you
35:35
Speaker 1: on Washington, and actually I want to get your thoughts.
35:40
Speaker 1: We did. This is the first time I can remember
35:42
Speaker 1: in quite a while we didn't have a coaching change
35:44
Speaker 1: in the Big Ten in the offseason. I think that
35:47
Speaker 1: can definitely change next offseason. And I'm looking at Penn State,
35:55
Speaker 1: Rutgers in Washington as the situations to potentially to monitor,
35:59
Speaker 1: and obviously Dana Altman maybe at Oregon if he decided
36:03
Speaker 1: to retire. But would you agree on the Penn State
36:06
Speaker 1: To me, I don't think Mike Rhodes is a bad coach,
36:10
Speaker 1: but I don't think they put the resources into basketball
36:14
Speaker 1: to be consistently good. And if you're not gonna do
36:15
Speaker 1: that in the Big Ten, you look at what some
36:17
Speaker 1: of these schools are spending on their rosters and the
36:20
Speaker 1: players that they're getting. Penn State feels like they're just
36:23
Speaker 1: they lost a couple of players to the portal that
36:28
Speaker 1: I felt like would have been helpful for them to retain,
36:30
Speaker 1: and Mingo and Dellion Dillion went to Georgia and Mingo
36:33
Speaker 1: went to Baylor, where I think his brother who had
36:36
Speaker 1: signed with North Carolina also ended up at Baylor down
36:39
Speaker 1: there with Scott Drew, I don't know about Penn State,
36:41
Speaker 1: and then Washington's another one. I know it's only going
36:44
Speaker 1: to be year three for Sprinkle, but if he doesn't
36:48
Speaker 1: show improvement in year three, what is the time frame
36:52
Speaker 1: now you get in college basketball with the portal and
36:57
Speaker 1: kind of the mentality to win now to actually turn
37:00
Speaker 1: to flip around a program. And then the same thing
37:02
Speaker 1: with Rutgers. They were good. I don't know if I
37:06
Speaker 1: would call them good. They were respectable, a solid team,
37:09
Speaker 1: a capable of making the NCAA tournament team a handful
37:13
Speaker 1: of years ago, but now they've kind of fallen off,
37:15
Speaker 1: and I just don't know. I know, with with Pikel,
37:18
Speaker 1: I think the issue when you look at that is
37:19
Speaker 1: maybe a buyout situation where they would owe them a
37:21
Speaker 1: lot of money. But anyone do you agree with those
37:24
Speaker 1: three situations as potential for coaching changes and and or
37:29
Speaker 1: or is there anyone else you look at and say
37:32
Speaker 1: this program may need a reset or reboot at some point.
37:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree, And I was at I went
37:38
Speaker 2: to Iowa when they played at Penn State this past
37:40
Speaker 2: season in the atmosphere was brutal.
37:43
Speaker 1: It was was it that Bryce Jordan?
37:46
Speaker 2: Yes, it was your first time there, It was my
37:48
Speaker 2: first time and and ironically, ironically I would lost that game.
37:54
Speaker 2: That was that was I was the worst loss of
37:55
Speaker 2: the season, but that the atmosphere was terrible. And same
37:59
Speaker 2: thing with the Oregon Organ was severely underwhelmed. That was
38:03
Speaker 2: my first time there as well. I mean it was
38:06
Speaker 2: not a good crowd at whatsoever. That's the battle. Part
38:10
Speaker 2: of the battle now is just I know it's not
38:13
Speaker 2: necessarily the case at Organ, but there's just not You
38:17
Speaker 2: just don't have a ton of patients with some of
38:19
Speaker 2: the and and I know that's something that Indiana has
38:22
Speaker 2: dealt with, where you just these coaches just don't get
38:27
Speaker 2: a lot of patients. And I understand the fan frustration
38:31
Speaker 2: because when it goes from one coach to another coach
38:34
Speaker 2: to another coach, then it feels like it's they all
38:37
Speaker 2: kind of blend together and it just feels like failure
38:41
Speaker 2: or losing, and it's you don't necessarily see that, Hey,
38:44
Speaker 2: this was Darren Devriez's first season at the new job.
38:47
Speaker 2: It just feels like kind of a continuation of Mike
38:51
Speaker 2: Woodson or a continuation of Archie Miller, and then that's
38:54
Speaker 2: kind of how this cycle goes. But I mean, speaking
38:57
Speaker 2: more to Indiana, like, I think if last season there
39:02
Speaker 2: is value in it only if Darren Devriez takes whatever
39:05
Speaker 2: lessons he learned from it and takes Indiana way beyond
39:11
Speaker 2: what they did last season. And the thing that I
39:14
Speaker 2: have a hard time wrapping my mind around though, is
39:17
Speaker 2: that it seemed like Darren Devriez one of his big
39:20
Speaker 2: takeaways was we need more size in the Big Ten. Now,
39:23
Speaker 2: I feel like I probably could have told you that
39:25
Speaker 2: going into last season. If that was your huge aha moment,
39:29
Speaker 2: then that that's not exactly encouraging because that was one
39:33
Speaker 2: of the things that I feel like was probably pretty
39:35
Speaker 2: obvious going into it. But I think there is value
39:38
Speaker 2: because if Darren Devrees can use whatever you learn being
39:42
Speaker 2: a first year head coach in the Big Ten use
39:45
Speaker 2: it as valuable lessons moving forward from because now head
39:49
Speaker 2: coaches they're almost like gms as well, and that's why
39:51
Speaker 2: you see them hiring Ryan Carr, who's a GM, because
39:55
Speaker 2: not only are they coaching these guys, but they're also
39:59
Speaker 2: they basically putting together an NBA like roster where you
40:03
Speaker 2: have a certain amount of money, you have to think
40:05
Speaker 2: about how do these guys fit together. You're bringing in
40:08
Speaker 2: maybe six plus guys in a class, so it's I
40:12
Speaker 2: think there's a lot more land mines than maybe in
40:15
Speaker 2: the past, where hey, you miss on one class and
40:18
Speaker 2: two high school guys, you're not going to be totally
40:22
Speaker 2: you know, in trouble. But if you miss on a
40:24
Speaker 2: class this time around, and it's a transfer portal class
40:28
Speaker 2: and you miss on four to four out of six
40:31
Speaker 2: guys or five out of seven guys, then you're you're
40:35
Speaker 2: in you know, you could be in some dangerous waters.
40:39
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the big thing that I've should be
40:44
Speaker 1: somewhat encouraging with IU this offseason this in terms of
40:47
Speaker 1: what they did as opposed to last I feel like
40:51
Speaker 1: this year they struck pretty quickly in the portal, like
40:54
Speaker 1: they identified the guys that they wanted to get, and
40:57
Speaker 1: they got them in a short period of time. I
40:59
Speaker 1: think the I think you run into problems in the portal,
41:02
Speaker 1: and I think you're seeing this way you saw this
41:03
Speaker 1: with Kentucky. Even if you have a big budget, if
41:08
Speaker 1: you cast two wide of a net, or you were
41:11
Speaker 1: involved with too many guys and then you strike out
41:14
Speaker 1: on a couple of them and you have to start
41:15
Speaker 1: going down to your secondary targets, the portal drops off
41:19
Speaker 1: pretty quickly if you notice, like when you watch the
41:23
Speaker 1: level of commitments, like most of the players that teams
41:28
Speaker 1: really wanted were off the board within like the first
41:30
Speaker 1: two two and a half weeks after the portal open.
41:33
Speaker 1: And then because I've watched it pretty consistently over the
41:37
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks as I've filled out these rosters,
41:39
Speaker 1: the commitments that have happened in May outside of a
41:42
Speaker 1: handful of guys that were either like there's a couple
41:47
Speaker 1: I think recently, and there'll be a couple more of
41:49
Speaker 1: the guys that may be pulled out of the drafts
41:51
Speaker 1: and are still going to go to a program. But
41:54
Speaker 1: for the most part, the guys that have committed after
41:57
Speaker 1: the first two or three weeks are guys that aren't
41:59
Speaker 1: really the impact guys. So I think from Indiana's perspective,
42:02
Speaker 1: like last year, it was a new thing and it
42:06
Speaker 1: was people were excited that there was just a different direction.
42:10
Speaker 1: And I don't think people myself included, and I've talked
42:13
Speaker 1: to Galen about this on last week's show and other
42:16
Speaker 1: people obviously over the program. It was just something new
42:19
Speaker 1: and different from what has been the past. So people
42:22
Speaker 1: talk themselves into a lot of the guys. But then
42:25
Speaker 1: when you go back and look at the profile of
42:27
Speaker 1: some of the guys, they brought in from too low
42:29
Speaker 1: of a level and that weren't proven enough, and it
42:32
Speaker 1: showed like a lot of them didn't really produce anything.
42:35
Speaker 1: This year, I think they did a better job of
42:37
Speaker 1: finding guys who have actually produced something at the high
42:41
Speaker 1: major level. And they also got guys that have multiple
42:46
Speaker 1: seasons of eligibility. Because last year, if let's just say
42:51
Speaker 1: hypothetically that Lamar Wilkerson would have had multiple seasons left,
42:56
Speaker 1: you would have actually had something to be excited about
42:59
Speaker 1: right for the season, because oh Lamar came in and
43:01
Speaker 1: he had this great year. Oh he can come back
43:03
Speaker 1: for another year. But no, it wasn't just Lamar Wilkerson
43:05
Speaker 1: couldn't come back. It was Tayton Connorway, which by the
43:08
Speaker 1: end of the season, I don't think he had kind
43:11
Speaker 1: of fallen out of favor. There wasn't really a huge
43:13
Speaker 1: appetite for him to come back. Reed Bailey was another
43:15
Speaker 1: one that they'd spent a ton of resources on. He
43:18
Speaker 1: didn't really perform, then he couldn't come back. Sam Alexis
43:21
Speaker 1: target Devreese. The list goes on. Connor In writes another
43:26
Speaker 1: one these none of these guys could come back, so
43:28
Speaker 1: they put kind of all their eggs in the basket
43:30
Speaker 1: of all right, we're gonna get this experienced team and
43:34
Speaker 1: we've got to make the tournament. Well, it would have
43:36
Speaker 1: been fine if they would have made the tournament, but
43:38
Speaker 1: they didn't make the tournament, so then they had to
43:41
Speaker 1: reboot again, and I think they this this spring and again.
43:45
Speaker 1: Who knows how it'll turn out. I mean, I like
43:47
Speaker 1: to point out last year that they finished tenth in
43:49
Speaker 1: the Big Ten. That's where I picked him. I usually
43:52
Speaker 1: have a pretty good sense of what in he is
43:53
Speaker 1: going to be as a team. I think right now
43:55
Speaker 1: a trend towards them being better than they were a
43:57
Speaker 1: season ago, because I think they have better overall talent.
44:01
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean kind of a long winded I mean,
44:05
Speaker 1: what do you what do you think about what they did?
44:06
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do you does it look like
44:08
Speaker 1: on paper that their team's better than what it was
44:11
Speaker 1: a year ago. I just feel like they had too
44:12
Speaker 1: many guys last year too, like on the bench that
44:15
Speaker 1: were death guys that never did anything.
44:18
Speaker 2: I'm not drinking the kool aid until I see it
44:20
Speaker 2: happen because to me, and it's a different scenario now,
44:24
Speaker 2: but it feels similar to when I you got Omar
44:29
Speaker 2: Ballo from the portal and I'm trying to think who
44:32
Speaker 2: else they got in that class but Miles Rice, and
44:36
Speaker 2: there was a ton of excitement. There was a lot
44:38
Speaker 2: of excitement, and then it ended up just being a
44:42
Speaker 2: major flop. So I'm at To me, it feels a
44:47
Speaker 2: little bit like deja vu in the sense of, okay,
44:49
Speaker 2: it's kind of you the disappointment of the end of
44:52
Speaker 2: the season because they underachieved. Then there's kind of the
44:56
Speaker 2: period where people are disinterested and then it comes back
44:59
Speaker 2: to the poor. They get some guys, they look at
45:02
Speaker 2: the stats and the excitements back up again, right, So
45:05
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they can't be good. I'm just very
45:07
Speaker 2: much in the in the camp of I think you
45:10
Speaker 2: just have to wait and see.
45:12
Speaker 1: I mean, that doesn't that have to be anybody's position
45:16
Speaker 1: at this point. Like if you're saying, if you're definitively
45:19
Speaker 1: saying that they're going to be a top three or
45:20
Speaker 1: four Big Ten team next season, I don't think you're
45:24
Speaker 1: basing that on anything but just kind of a pure
45:28
Speaker 1: guess because we haven't seen it in such a long time.
45:30
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's a fair I think it's
45:32
Speaker 1: a fair point that you make there, But I think
45:37
Speaker 1: the difference my whole point was I'm not saying they're
45:39
Speaker 1: gonna be I'm not even gonna say definitively they're gonna
45:42
Speaker 1: be better. I think they did a better job of
45:45
Speaker 1: getting guys who have actually performed at least at a
45:48
Speaker 1: higher level that you can actually see when you look
45:52
Speaker 1: at them making more of an impact because they weren't
45:56
Speaker 1: good enough last year. The players they have were not
45:58
Speaker 1: good enough.
45:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, And something that I feel like I really learned
46:01
Speaker 2: from Iowa season this past year was continuity and retention
46:08
Speaker 2: is underrated in this landscape. Because the transfers are kind
46:13
Speaker 2: of the flashy thing people look at, all, who do
46:16
Speaker 2: you have coming in? But even though Ben McCullum made
46:20
Speaker 2: the transition from Drake to Iowa, almost his entire staff
46:25
Speaker 2: came with him from Drake. There's guys that have been
46:27
Speaker 2: with him from northwest Missouri state. Six guys from Drake.
46:31
Speaker 2: Six transfers from Drake came to Iowa, So there was
46:34
Speaker 2: already a familiarity there. And that was a major difference
46:38
Speaker 2: between Iowa and Indiana is that Ben McCollum brought a
46:41
Speaker 2: fair amount of guys with him from Drake. Darren DeVries
46:44
Speaker 2: brought Tucker from West Virginia, but there wasn't a whole
46:47
Speaker 2: lot of familiarity within that group. I think that's something
46:51
Speaker 2: that's underrated in this day and age, is being able
46:54
Speaker 2: to have guys that play multiple seasons with each other
46:57
Speaker 2: that are familiar where they don't have to rebuild that
47:00
Speaker 2: chemistry every single offseason. I think the way that Indiana
47:04
Speaker 2: has gone from the last two seasons, and it's a
47:09
Speaker 2: different deal when you're taking over a job and you
47:12
Speaker 2: have to rebuild, but starting all over again this offseason,
47:16
Speaker 2: that's not sustainable for Indiana because I think there needs
47:19
Speaker 2: to be like Trent Sisly was like the guy that man,
47:23
Speaker 2: you were able to keep him and he can be
47:25
Speaker 2: a foundational piece moving forward. Well, what if you had
47:27
Speaker 2: four Trent Sisly's. What if you had five Trent Sisley's
47:30
Speaker 2: that have played together for a season. I think there
47:33
Speaker 2: needs to be a healthy balance between high school guys,
47:37
Speaker 2: developing them overseason retaining them. There's gonna be turnover, that's
47:41
Speaker 2: just the reality of it now. But it's trying to
47:44
Speaker 2: keep as many guys as possible and then maybe you
47:47
Speaker 2: can go try to get a Yaks Lende board and
47:49
Speaker 2: a Morez Johnson, some high level transfers to plug into
47:53
Speaker 2: what you need to really elevate your team. I think that,
47:56
Speaker 2: to me is the healthiest, most sustainable way for a program,
48:01
Speaker 2: and that's that Purdue does a good job of that.
48:03
Speaker 2: Michigan State they probably don't use the portal as much
48:07
Speaker 2: as they should, but they kind of operate in that
48:09
Speaker 2: way where you have a nice blend of guys who
48:13
Speaker 2: have been in the program, but you're also able to
48:16
Speaker 2: bring in and impact guy here or there from the
48:19
Speaker 2: portal when needed.
48:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I agree with with all that I
48:24
Speaker 1: think that's one reason why they targeted guys like from
48:28
Speaker 1: the Portal. This year, they have multiple season of eligibility.
48:30
Speaker 1: They have four freshmen coming in, so I think they
48:32
Speaker 1: hope that they can kind of get on that trajectory
48:35
Speaker 1: of retain and develop, because I agree with you, it's
48:40
Speaker 1: it's unsustainable to think that you're going to go out
48:44
Speaker 1: year in and year out and just build a brand
48:48
Speaker 1: new team and be successful because it's kind of like
48:52
Speaker 1: Cali Perry tried to do it in the old era,
48:54
Speaker 1: right with the freshmen, and they had the years where
48:57
Speaker 1: they were great, like the Anthony Davis year, and then
49:00
Speaker 1: they had the year remember the year there, like they
49:03
Speaker 1: made they had this great freshman class and they made
49:05
Speaker 1: the n I t They had another year where they
49:06
Speaker 1: were like an eight or nine seed in the tournament
49:08
Speaker 1: and they were not very good the whole season. They
49:10
Speaker 1: ended up making all the way of the championship game,
49:12
Speaker 1: but it was just right because it was just kind
49:15
Speaker 1: of like they threw it together at the last minute.
49:17
Speaker 1: Are they got things going at the last minute and
49:20
Speaker 1: finally figured it out. But it's kind of the same
49:22
Speaker 1: thing now with the portal. If you're like two, that's
49:24
Speaker 1: another thing, like going back to the team we talked
49:26
Speaker 1: about earlier with like USC, right, they have all these
49:29
Speaker 1: new players again, and it's hard to get things right
49:34
Speaker 1: when you have no continuity. And that's I think if
49:37
Speaker 1: you were gonna pick apart anything in terms of Indiana
49:41
Speaker 1: for next season, it would just be it's it's a
49:42
Speaker 1: brand new cast, so it's gonna have to be once
49:45
Speaker 1: again building from the bottom. And so yeah, I mean,
49:51
Speaker 1: it's it's it's just a different landscape now. I mean,
49:54
Speaker 1: you're gonna, I know, the team that you grew up
49:56
Speaker 1: following is gonna kind of gonna go through the same thing,
49:58
Speaker 1: right next season, North Carolina, What what did you make
50:02
Speaker 1: of the higher they made? Unconventional obviously, but are they
50:06
Speaker 1: kind of going through the same thing just in terms
50:08
Speaker 1: of lack of retention and a brand new team as well.
50:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a little I mean, because it's Mike
50:15
Speaker 2: Malone's first season, so that's kind of more expected. I
50:18
Speaker 2: was shocked by that higher first off because that seemed
50:22
Speaker 2: to kind of come out of left field a little bit.
50:25
Speaker 2: It reminds me a little bit of a Mike Woodson
50:28
Speaker 2: higher in Malone One at a higher level in the
50:31
Speaker 2: NBA because he actually won an NBA championship as a
50:34
Speaker 2: head coach. But it's sort of that same route where
50:38
Speaker 2: you're going to going an unconventional way and getting a
50:41
Speaker 2: NBA coach and trying to put him in a ecosystem
50:45
Speaker 2: of college basketball that's not exactly easy to navigate if
50:48
Speaker 2: you haven't been in those waters for a while. But
50:52
Speaker 2: North Carolina this past season Hubert Davis. Davis's last season
50:56
Speaker 2: was similar to Indiana and that it was a kind
50:59
Speaker 2: of a cost sheary tale of if you don't use
51:01
Speaker 2: the portal, right, because North Carolina kind of went they
51:06
Speaker 2: had a whole reset and they got unlucky with Caleb
51:09
Speaker 2: Wilson's injury. If he had been healthy, they probably they
51:12
Speaker 2: would have at least beaten VCU. They probably could have
51:15
Speaker 2: gotten to the Sweet sixteen. But it was where they
51:17
Speaker 2: brought in someone like Kayan Evans who people were excited
51:21
Speaker 2: about coming in as a transfer and just did not
51:24
Speaker 2: pan out. So I think the other part of the
51:26
Speaker 2: equation here, and this is what Ben McCollum really focuses on.
51:31
Speaker 2: Maybe you could argue even too much, but he's very
51:34
Speaker 2: invested in it is getting the guy the right personality
51:38
Speaker 2: fits because I'm not saying this was the case at USC,
51:42
Speaker 2: but if you have a bunch of talent, but they
51:44
Speaker 2: have different agendas, they're not about winning, maybe they're about
51:47
Speaker 2: getting to the NBA, that's not going to lead to
51:50
Speaker 2: team's success. I think that's what Ben McCollum, that's part
51:52
Speaker 2: of his secret sauce, so to speak, is that they
51:56
Speaker 2: do an extensive background on these guys' personalities and who
52:01
Speaker 2: they are as people, what they're about. And that's what
52:04
Speaker 2: made Bennett Sturtz. Part of what made him so good
52:07
Speaker 2: is that he put up these huge numbers, but he's
52:10
Speaker 2: a pretty humble, quiet guy, So he wasn't someone that
52:13
Speaker 2: kind of walked around like he was totally better than that,
52:16
Speaker 2: better than everyone else. So I think Ben, that's another
52:19
Speaker 2: part is not just the retention and cohesion, but do
52:23
Speaker 2: you have guys that are going to buy into winning?
52:25
Speaker 2: Because that's why you see, was Iowa a more talented
52:29
Speaker 2: team than Kentucky or then Louisville or then some of
52:35
Speaker 2: these other programs. No, like they weren't, But it's who
52:38
Speaker 2: are the guys that are gonna buy in? And that's
52:41
Speaker 2: what made Michigan special last season. Because the talent level
52:45
Speaker 2: was off the charts, but they all you could see
52:48
Speaker 2: the buy in. You could see could Trey McKinney have
52:53
Speaker 2: started on a bunch of Big ten teams and put
52:55
Speaker 2: up big numbers, Yeah, but he bought into a more
52:59
Speaker 2: minimum role as a freshman and filled kind of a
53:04
Speaker 2: role that Michigan needed. Same thing with a Lendeborg. Even
53:09
Speaker 2: though he put up pretty big numbers, he could have
53:11
Speaker 2: put up even bigger numbers if he was just like, Hey,
53:14
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be selfish and kind of takeover. They did
53:16
Speaker 2: a great job. That's what made them special. I think
53:18
Speaker 2: is Michigan had the talent, but they also had that
53:21
Speaker 2: collective buying from guys.
53:23
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, Tyler, thanks for taking the time to come
53:28
Speaker 1: on the show. Always good to talk a little Iowa
53:31
Speaker 1: basketball with you. Big Ten at large. It's just such
53:34
Speaker 1: an interesting time in the sport because I feel like, well,
53:38
Speaker 1: not in Iowa specifically this year because they have so
53:40
Speaker 1: many many players back, but so many of these Big
53:43
Speaker 1: Ten programs. It's not just in Indiana. I was looking
53:45
Speaker 1: at some of these rosters, is like Oregon and State,
53:48
Speaker 1: a ton of these different teams. It's like relearning the
53:52
Speaker 1: team every season. I don't know if that's good for
53:54
Speaker 1: the long term health of the sport, but it's where
53:55
Speaker 1: we are. That's a whole nother discussion that I'm sure
53:58
Speaker 1: we'll be having in the years to just about where
54:01
Speaker 1: all this settles. UH. Someday, I think at some point
54:06
Speaker 1: we'll get a more uniform system, will get rules that
54:09
Speaker 1: hopefully everybody has to follow. But for now, it's kind
54:11
Speaker 1: of h it is what it is. It's it's a
54:16
Speaker 1: it's an era of player movement. It's UH all these
54:21
Speaker 1: kind of unregulated ni L deals and UH revenue sharing
54:26
Speaker 1: and just so many different things to to keep track of,
54:30
Speaker 1: and UH, it's still I think the Big ten has
54:35
Speaker 1: continued to be able to grow its brand because of
54:37
Speaker 1: the the strong universities and the loyal fan bases people
54:41
Speaker 1: that have been following these programs. But I do wonder
54:43
Speaker 1: about just the long term health of the sport if
54:47
Speaker 1: there isn't aren't some guard grails put it put in
54:50
Speaker 1: place for the long term. But thanks for for hopping
54:53
Speaker 1: in with us and having the conversation and have a
54:57
Speaker 1: good have a good summer. I know this is a
54:59
Speaker 1: little bit of a downtime for you, but I know
55:01
Speaker 1: fall camp for football will be here before you know,
55:03
Speaker 1: and I know you're still working on some basketball things
55:05
Speaker 1: as well. Yep, thanks for having me, as always appreciate it.
55:09
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody as always for listening. If you enjoy the show,
55:12
Speaker 1: please leave us a rating and review over on Apple
55:14
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55:17
Speaker 1: subscribe to the channel, and we'll be back soon with
55:20
Speaker 1: another episode of Podcast on the Break.