Latest / She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young / SENSITIVE EPISODE: Diana Richardson - Principal Advisor, Former Mormon, Mother and Friend of 16 years

Transcript

SENSITIVE EPISODE: Diana Richardson - Principal Advisor, Former Mormon, Mother and Friend of 16 years · She Said It Out Loud with Emma Young

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to She Said It Out Loud, where real women share real stories without sugarcoating a thing.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Emma Young, and I'll bring you on filtered conversations with ambitious women who faced challenges, made bold moves, and learned a lot along the way.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: You'll get real takeaways, honest lessons, and stories that you're gonna relate to.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Righto, let's get started.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hi there and welcome to the podcast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Emma Young, and I wanted to start today's conversation just by giving you a little bit of a heads up.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: My guest and I will be talking about some very sensitive topics, and those do include grief and the loss of a baby.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: This may be triggering to some, so I wanted to give you a heads up before you actually press play and continue on with the episode.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: If this is something that may be triggering for you or that you are sensitive to these types of issues, please feel free to skip ahead to the next episode.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: My guest today is Diana Richardson.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Di and I have known each other for 16 years now, and throughout that time our friendship has experienced its ups and downs and the traditional ebbs and flows of a friendship, I guess you could say.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was quite unusual because we sat down in her apartment and because of my sound tech issues, we ended up in her bathroom set up like a little studio in there.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the first time we actually had a margarita.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And because of our friendship, we pretty much just sat back and waffled on and really got deep into some heart.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I don't even want to keep waffling.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're just gonna have to trust me on this one.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great episode, but it really is so incredibly emotional.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit of a change up from the episodes that I've been running lately, so I really just wanted to give you the heads up.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So here's our conversation.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I want to welcome you, Die, to the podcast.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Emma.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now I would have explained a little bit in the intro, and I just want to rehash a few things for those people that have well, you wouldn't have skipped the intro because it's at the start.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: But as a disclaimer, if you're finding anything that we're talking about today, you know, difficult or distressing, please just skip this episode.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I will not be offended at all.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's important for me to just put this out there at the start in case, you know, you might be a little bit hesitant.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's alright.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just gonna go straight into it and get Di to introduce herself to my listeners.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, I'm Di Richardson.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am I'm a mum.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've had four children.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I am a sister and mum at at heart.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Number one is being a mum.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And at my core for a job, I'm a primary school teacher.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, I think that's a pretty good introduction.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, like Di said at the start, we have known each other for I figured it out 16 years.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been a while since I've had someone on the podcast that I've actually known for a significant amount of time.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're probably just gonna waffle a bit, and that's okay, because we've gone through things together.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our friendship over the last 16 years has had its ebbs and flows, like any friendship has.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I just want to start off by saying that at the start of our friendship, it was a classic Emma scenario where I would look, I'm just gonna put it out there.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Dai is confident she has leadership qualities.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: When we very first met in the town up north that we were both teaching at, she came across as this just powerful presence.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I know she's scoffing at me, but she did.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think because she came in so confident and like, I don't know, just refreshing.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was a great person to have just come into the town, and I didn't like it, and I think that's because I was threatened.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: The classic old Emma of a decade ago was that was the person that was threatened by this sort of person coming into her space and coming into her town, so to speak, thinking that I own the joint, but that's just my attitude back in those days, and I just didn't like her.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of gelled in it at school as in she would help me out, and I guess you could say I used her, let's be honest, for her skills and her knowledge.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm happy to admit that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's what this podcast is called, she said it out loud.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: We we did choir together, and so we got to gel over that, and then look, you know, we had a couple of disagreements about things, and you know, there was a period in our lives where we just probably didn't talk as much as what we did, and we let, you know, other outside noise sort of judge our friendships, and then I don't even know what switched, but I think it was over time I realised that the classic Emma of a decade ago had just simply judged a book by its cover, and I was really grateful to sort of get my finger out of my butt during that time and get to know Die a bit further.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And as the years have gone by, we both have gone through uh shitstorm is one way to put it in our personal lives in many ways, and that's gonna be a part two.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: But for today, we're just gonna talk about I guess just our friendship and things that we've gone through.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, is there anything that you want to add to that?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks, Emma.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting to hear you saying how much you had disdain for me, because I didn't know.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: I knew we didn't have chemistry as friends, and honestly, given the time of grief that I was in, I'm glad I didn't know because I don't think I would have been able to manage knowing that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting to hear your perspective on how I came across because that's certainly not what was in happening internally.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, I mean, like I said, you gotta admit to these things.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, let's touch on that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's touch on what actually what happened at that point.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, I started as a graduate teacher coming into a really small town.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had just come out of what I thought would have been the most trying thing in my life, but more recent events has been probably more challenging.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I gave birth to my second child and he passed away.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Having been in this small town, I was barely two years out of burying a child, and I was pretty vulnerable.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, I think people that met you at that time had no idea.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: They had no idea what was going on.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: They probably didn't even know how to people saw that you had a tattoo that had his name, and people would ask that, and I guess it's a starting point where people wanted to know more.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: People in general, and I think listeners out there that are listening to this, most people wouldn't know what to say.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Most people wouldn't know what to what to say.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And all I would say to anyone is just reach out, even saying I don't know what to say is enough that you can just people sometimes for me just wanted some normalcy and talking about everyday stuff like you would normal for a friendship and or any kind of acquaintance.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I did find in that period of time, particularly in my in my religion, I was an an avid churchgoer, and even though it promoted families and families being together forever, people just couldn't talk to me.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had literally grieving mother written across my forehead, and people just couldn't talk to me, and that was really challenging.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like, you know, I probably should have started more at the start in regards to you were married quite young.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you were 19.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't really happen anymore.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: People that are listening to this, I want them to kind of get a backstory of of your story, obviously without going into too much detail on the things that you don't want to express out aloud.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, you were married young.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I so I grew up here in Perth, south of Perth.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have many siblings.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm one of eight children, and I'm the seventh of eight.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of one of the babies, I suppose.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up very staunch, strict, religious in that family, growing up as in the in the Mormon faith here in Perth.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been an interesting ride growing up in that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I met my husband at 17.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I was in year 12, actually.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, nuts.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we were married at a couple of years later at 19.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So my husband was at the time a missionary, and you people have probably seen commercials for the theatre, like Broadway show.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: The Book of Mormon.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: The Book of Mormon.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's what my ex-husband was.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this, you know, that happens all over the world, and there's missionaries all over the world.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So he was I didn't he didn't convert me.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was I'm like third generation.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: My grandmother was a became a Mormon back in the 50s.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: I met him at church on a Sunday.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was 17.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Two years after we met, we got married.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's from Salt Lake City, and which is like the Mecca of Mormon Church.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I got married and lived in the US at the from the age of 19.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's next level.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just picturing I've got a near 19-year-old.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she's just turned 19.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Boggles my mind to think that you were that young.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was crazy, but growing up in the Mormon Church, that was what you were essentially groomed or destined to do.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Get married and have children.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: That was my, I suppose, direction in life was to become a mum and a wife.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: That was really all I was ever encouraged to do.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: The church encouraged that.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I certainly had no encouragement to go on and get an education or a career.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember specifically an event when I was at church on Sunday.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was about 16, and a lesson in Sunday school was about what my role was, that I was going to grow up and be a mum and a wife.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember saying, I'm going to have a career.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that was not received very well.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Never did I ever foresee that I would have a career or go on and get educated as I have done.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So knowing you and knowing what you're like, I feel like not only would have that been stifling.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so then what happened after that though?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously at some point you've gone, no, I actually do want to do this.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And this again, it's not taking away from being a mum and being a wife.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's plenty of women out there, and I and we all are.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: For you to be so dedicated and have this leadership aspirations, like what changed?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I got married, we lived in Salt Lake City, you know, like I said earlier.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things, you know, there's two things that I was groomed or or predisposed to do was get married in the temple and marry a return missionary.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I did both of those.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I got married in the Salt Lake City Temple, which is again like the Mecca.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is the headquarters of the church.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's uh it's quite a symbolic.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was always really quite proud of that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I lived in Salt Lake City for a number of years, so you know, I'm a real wife of yes, you are.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: No secret lives in here.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, no secret lives here.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had to go through all the immigration process, got a green card, but always the plan was to move back here to Perth, and that's what we did.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a number of years to decide what I wanted to do.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I worked at retail a lot in handbags.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a love, a lot of handbags and cosmetics.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I became a makeup artist.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we moved back to Perth, I started at the makeup counter in Maya.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in Maya and David Jones.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: That was kind of, and I have a you know, a passion, as you would know, Emma, for makeup.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: You do, and you're very good at it.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Then obviously, you applied to get into university.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: When you got back to Perth, you just started your degree?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was pregnant with my first daughter.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've had fertility issues and we needed some fertility support.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was 28, which is quite late in the Mormon church to be having babies.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I started my first unit.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to do a business degree.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Having worked retail all those years and enjoyed marketing and and just seeing how I guess my my bosses were, that's what I wanted to go into marketing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And my first unit I ever did was Economics 101 at Churchland's campus, C U, which is now full of beautiful homes.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember specifically that time in the lecture theatre, how I'm just living my dream.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm at university.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I never knew if I'd be capable.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not anything that I was ever encouraged to do.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was I only started with one unit because I didn't know if I would be able to pass it.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I only started part-time.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, then I had a baby.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when I realized, oh, look, I can do this.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I passed the subject.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I then did two units, then I did three units.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then that final year of university, my husband had said to me, You just, you know, it's time to finish.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: You just got to get a job.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: That last year I had a four-year-old and I did 10 units.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone that's been to uni, you know you do four units a semester.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I did a summer unit, I overloaded, which you can only do with grades.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, did five units, and then that final semester was going to do three units.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in that final semester, I'm pregnant with our second child.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: He was due in October.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I knew with my study habits that I was gonna be able to manage that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was born on the 16th of August.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: My waters had broken.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had to have an emergency cesarean.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I come from a long line of women that were built to labour and have pretty quick births.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So to have a cesarean was absolutely devastating.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: At 32 weeks, it was a real trying time.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I got through that semester, and that was my final semester to graduate.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: He spent, he was transferred to PMH in uh the NICU.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: It was there.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: He spent a lot of time in the ICU.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone that's had a Prem baby, you know that you basically go by their due date of when they'll probably come home or two kilos.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he went past his due date and he was 2.8 kilos when he was discharged.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: He was born with some challenges, which would have been fine.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some anomalies.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's the word I learnt in that time frame.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: He was home for eight weeks and everything seemed fine.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've got two children now, a five-year-old and a newborn son.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's home, he's well.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And on the 21st of December, four days before Christmas, my husband and daughter went to church.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been up with him through the night.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I needed to get some sleep, so we didn't go to church that day.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd got my daughter ready for church that morning, and then I went back to sleep, and so did my son Max.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I remember waking up in a bit of a startle at 12.08.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever I see that time, 12.08.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I startled that I couldn't believe I'd slept like three hours in that morning.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I went in and found my lifeless son.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was Yeah, it's incomprehensible.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I tried to resuscitate him.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um if anyone's ever tried to put air into a a person or a baby, air escapes and you think they're starting to breathe.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um but he was lifeless, he was cold.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously a cold triple zero.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um they did everything they could possibly do.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: The paramedic or the ambulance driver.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: He got emotional.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never forget seeing him teary.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously I had yeah, Christmas decorations are when they had come.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: He was pronounced dead at five o'clock that afternoon.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: My world had just turned upside down.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: You think you're gonna go into a corporate job?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what to do.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I needed to get a job, that's what my husband had said I needed to do.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in this day and age, you can't, even though you know what we grew up to believe as as women in the church, you are to go you be a homemaker, be home with the children.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: But in this economy, of course, you can't you can't survive on on one job.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of events that happened around that with my family, which are pretty tragic as well, particularly around my parents.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a story for another day.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I decided at that point I needed a mum job.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's a mum job?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: A teacher.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what mum jobs were.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have an older sister, one of my many sisters, that she's been a successful teacher and and retired principal, and that's what I thought I'd do.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I had just graduated from my commerce degree and I went straight into my first postgrad, which was just nuts.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely nuts.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you do that?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: That is nuts.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't want to how do you be around people when you've just buried a baby?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think one thing that people are gonna be wanting to know is obviously he passed away because of Sid.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you've chosen that then that time to do your dip head in teaching.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: When this has just happened.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was at in the lecture theatre six weeks later, essentially, which it's just madness, absolute madness.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would you do that?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what else to do.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I really didn't know what else to do.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I figured, you know, when you're at uni, it's pretty solitary.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're on your own.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's just you and your studies, so I didn't really have to socialise until you go on your prack, of course, for teaching.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that year, I would say was just an absolute blur.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how I passed.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't know.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I being the person that I am, I was not gonna settle for anything less than a distinction, even in that state of mind.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So outside of uni, I couldn't even tell you how what was going on.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: My it was just a massive distraction being able to really address my grief.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think even all these years later, I don't think I've ever properly addressed my grief.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's probably one thing that if anybody that's listening to this that's had something similar or has known somebody that's gone through the exact same thing, they would probably think that that's true.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like what what do you do?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do it?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do you function on a day-to-day basis and continue life?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you like you said, you had a five-year-old daughter, you know, she doesn't know what's happening, life still continues, you still need to be a mum and be a wife, and so you know, I think again, no one knew that, and it's not like you're gonna broadcast that when you move to such a small town, and it's already such a sensitive subject.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think when people meet you or when people meet, you know, met you in person, no one would have known that that's the sort of thing that you've just gone through.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm trying to spit out is it's a really good lesson in life that you don't know what's going on behind closed doors.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what someone's just gone through or is currently going through.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So you do need to give a little bit of grace.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm surprised with you talking about growing up in the Mormon church, and obviously something like this has happened and it's very, you know, emotional and it's such a tragic thing that's happened in your family.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've just obviously graduated, you've moved to a small town, then what happened?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: One of the reasons why we needed to get out of Perth is because I was a bit obsessed with going to the cemetery.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Every every Sunday I'd go to church and then I'd go to the cemetery.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just had to go to the cemetery.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: My husband was like, we've got to get out of Perth and really break that cycle.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: I had our next child about 18 months after Max passed away.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had done some relief teaching and then I applied for the remote teaching pool.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when we moved to that little town.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: We rock up in town.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm an absolute, you know, head case, and I've got a six-month-old baby, newborn.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: My daughter at this stage is my eldest, is going now into year three.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we started.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I started as a graduate teacher.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: We really stuck to ourselves because Mormons don't drink, and ironically, we're having margaritas now.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that might be giving away a few things.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's where, you know, I just started.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I was always very driven.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where the inner drive comes from.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I wanted to be in leadership.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was the drive.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: That was the goal.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had a couple of years in in the classroom, not very long, teaching one-twos, and I my year one-twos now are, you know, adult.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then moved into a literacy role.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then before you knew it, five years later, I'm still in this tiny little town of 600 people.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm deputy principal.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I won that position, stayed in that town six years.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: By the my last year, you had moved on.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: You had gone by then.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Before that, I always wanted to do a master's degree.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot about that.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: How can we forget?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Die doing a master's degree.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is painting the picture of somebody that just, besides not being able to chill and is an incredibly high achiever.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Doing your master's degree is no joke.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was nuts.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we had our fourth child.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is all in that same town.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'd started a master's degree.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just always wanted to do a master's degree.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, living in a little Aboriginal community in the top end of WA, uh, I knew that I could go to any university.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had the grades that I could, so I really was really wanted to make sure I went when I got into one of the universities in Victoria and did everything online.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had a baby in between, so my masters took me three years, which would normally take about two years to do.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then I did a master of education in leadership policy and change.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know it sounds It sounds really dry, but it was quite it's really quite interesting.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite fascinating to me.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't sound nerd.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't it doesn't sound dry at all.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hashtag big nerd.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Big nerd.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Nerds are in.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Nerds are totally in.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you got your masters, and then the neighbouring town pretty much sees just how good you are, and they're like, we need you.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: They they're like, we need you here in our community to make a change, to come to our school, which is obviously incredibly hard to stuff.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: We need you superstar.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you moved.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Moved 100 kilometres down the road with now my youngest being Kindy, so she's my fourth child.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I moved into a school that is by far the most challenging environment that I have ever, ever worked in.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Probably a couple of things.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: My health endometriosis, you know, diagnosing that in a small country town took a long time, you know, being anemic and but also leading uh a very large, complex, challenging school.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: When I talk about challenges, we talk about you know alcohol-fueled violence, neglect, uh, mandatory reporting, just some horrific things.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what I talk about living up in the Kimberley, people ask, oh, how is it?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: How is it?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And what I describe is you've seen the best of mankind, but you've seen the worst.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's some grappling things.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: But not only that, I worked with some very challenging people far out, some really difficult people.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know sometimes if they even liked children, let alone themselves.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: They certainly didn't like themselves.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was a really hard time.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I learned so much in that period of time.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Probably learned a lot about myself, how to manage myself, how to manage other people.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're, you know, when you're in a school, you're managing so many personalities.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to keep yourself in check, but you've got to, you're dealing with the emotions of other adults, so teachers, parents, your EAs, gardeners, uh, but then you're also managing students and their emotions and trying to maintain a school with conditions for learning.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: In that time, though, I had the opportunity to work in a regional role, and that was probably my biggest career-changing moment.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, which that is how I'm in my job that I have now.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was meant to be a three-year contract in a town of 600, 11 years later, I left a neighboring town of 5,000 to come into my position that I'm in now as a principal advisor.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did you just hear what you just said?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: As in, that is a big deal.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know that we had chats before this, and you know, you talk about wishing that what people are thinking and saying, and it doesn't even have to be people that don't know you.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: There will be somebody that will be listening to this, shaking their head, going, even just being a teacher, just a primary school teacher.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to stop saying just, I keep saying this.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: A primary school teacher that then goes on to become a deputy.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't it level four?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't it a level four deputy is no joke.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that I would be putting on my front door or my doormat.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like level four deputy lives here.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we joke, we joke about this, but my behaviour management skills are from 2011.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if I was to ever become a deputy, I would get fired probably on day two.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Not only that, I'm great at talking to people, I'm great.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of my superpowers.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: But dealing with parents and then EAs and personalities, all those things that you just rattled off, that takes a high level amount of skills.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't do it.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't do it.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'd get fired.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know I would.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk a tiny bit about the current role that you're in, because that's no joke either.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big deal.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have a great job.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to my team.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's very few times in people's career that you have uh high performing people that work around you.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of trust that they will also have your back, be working just as hard as you are.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: A real privilege to work with some really talented people.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not to mention I have an amazing boss who's about to retire.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so he's um he's been remarkable, particularly through this whole process, and not to mention the current my current situation.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now a single mum after 30 years of marriage, and that has um certainly played a part in the challenges I've had in more recent years and discovering an alternative life, um, a double life, an element of betrayal, which I cannot even describe.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I now work in a position principal advisor after everything that I've learned up in the East Kimberley.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: I get to work with schools that undergo a lot of challenges.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: So having that's all I've known is school working in challenging schools.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So now I get to support other principals, that whether they're here in the metropolitan area or in regions, support schools through their public school review.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So often really just a um shoulder to cry on for other principals.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: At times, my main background is curriculum, teaching and learning, and student achievement and progress.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So school improvement.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: School improvement.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's good.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't even know if I'm gonna be allowed to ask this question, but I feel like people that are listening are gonna wonder why, or is it the case?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they figured out we're drinking margaritas, but I've kind of stopped.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, but is this are you you know, what happened there?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Did you just decide that you didn't want to be a Mormon anymore?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or it was just like time out, I just don't really want to do it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, living away all those years, we just there wasn't really a church I suppose to attend.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I never fit.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: I never fit in, you know, and like you know, from a young age I knew that that wasn't, you know, I wasn't gonna be a stay-at-home mum.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Of I don't think anyone can afford to be a stay-at-home mum, but I wasn't gonna be a stay-at-home mum.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't going to be But that was what we were destined to do.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we were groomed.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I've used that word a few times, but we were indoctrinated, which is just a fancy word for brainwashed from infancy on the beliefs.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it all comes down to the patriarchy and the church, any organized religion essentially follows that script.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: But do you think it's fair to say that there are gonna be people out there that are listening to this that could potentially be Mormons and they haven't had that experience?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think that this is a generalized term?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: In what way?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just trying to think.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there are Mormons out there that are listening to this and they're going, oh well that wasn't my experience, or is that just naive of me to say that this is a thing, as in like you how you mentioned?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Look, my experiences growing up generally were were positive.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have negative feelings of of when I went to church as a child.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it was really strict, you know.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: We couldn't watch TV on Sundays, we couldn't, you know, we'd live in Perth, we couldn't even swim on Sundays, I couldn't play sport on Sundays, you know, drinking, smoking, any of those things.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is the patriarchal doctrine, and that's what has caused my blinkers, uh, Mormon blinkers, I call them, which has what led to my blind side as a married woman.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: But even when I lived in Salt Lake City, I never fit there.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I never really fit.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So was I ever really a believer?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I actually was.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: When you are being taught from the age of 18 months, that's when you start getting your first light lessons.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh 18 months, you are taught that that's what you are growing up to be.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've I've kind of joked with one of my sisters that, you know, there's there's a few, I still have uh members of my family that are still members of the church and my parents in particular, but you know, everyone went their own ways and some stayed in the church, and I didn't just stay in the church, I went deeper.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I went, I moved to Salt Lake City.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just unfortunate that you know, what I thought, I don't know if I want to go here, but as a married couple, we had the same beliefs and trusts, and we have implicit trusts.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I had blinkers on to ever seeing what was happening as a double life.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's another, that's a whole other That's a whole other story for another day.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: There'll be people out there that'll be like, we want to know this story, but no, that's for another day.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: You and I we could talk forever.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we do, we talk forever and we have the best chats.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to put it out there how grateful I am for your friendship.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm getting deep now and I've literally had two sips of this margarita, so people are probably thinking I'm lit, but I'm not.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that we don't say it often enough.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: We we have these friendships that we've had for a long time.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Anybody that's listened to the second episode with my mate Fowler, same thing, that's 30 years of friendship.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: These the the years that you go through, you've got to spend the time.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: We our lives are busy.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: We get it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: But things like this, having these moments, I'm incredibly grateful that you came.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm at your joint, but that you agreed to come onto the podcast and chat.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I there's a couple of questions just before we wrap it up that I do want to go through.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone that's listened to your story of all the education that you've you've done, I was gonna say put yourself through, but you know, it was self-inflicted.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're a high achieving woman.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would you give to other women in leadership positions?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: With anything in any anywhere these days, it's a emotional intelligence goes so far.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's so important, not just in leadership, but also in your relationships.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so EQ would be making sure that you have your EQ in check.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: EQ.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: EQ, that's emotional intelligence.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus, I'm learning something new every day.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly don't have any EQ.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking equilibrium shortened.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think IQ is intelligence, EQ is is social.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um keeping yourself in check.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: That you can reflect and that you're can manage your emotions.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: EQ.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is important.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm learning EQ and I'm learning.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we were gonna talk about menopause.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Were we gonna were we gonna dive into that or we just gonna not do that?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Bleep this part out, but it's fucked.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: We do swear in this, so that's totally fine.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone that's listened to this podcast, now I'm sorry, Gen Z if you are listening, but my perimenopause, everyone's like, for the love of God, Emma, shut the hell up about perimenopause.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: But Di is one of my closest friends that has been going through menopause.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we laugh about it, but fuck.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's got some good advice.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say that how has your journey been going through the mind fuck, that's what I'm calling it, of menopause.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So in regards to you don't even have to give me the full spill.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Just what's some advice that you would give to anybody?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I feel like it people don't talk about enough.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that everybody likes to not sweep under the rug because it is becoming more well known, but people don't realise that it is actually a thing that affects every single woman.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it affects you to the cellular level.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the risk of Alzheimer's, osteoporosis, you know, how many nans have we ha known of that have fallen and broken hips?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's more women are more prone to that because our nans wouldn't have ever gone on HRT.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can I just say go on HRT?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: That my brain fog probably started years ago and I didn't recognise that.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think given that I was going through a very, very challenging separation and divorce, that the brain fog I put towards probably the trauma that I had gone through, the blind side that I I have recently experienced.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: What I've understood, I feel like my brain fog has improved.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard to measure.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I deliver a lot of professional learning and you just forget words.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there's, you know, you just tiptoe around words to try and get the definition.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: So HRT, getting on that, and and that was probably the biggest thing that I would say has helped with my sanity, but the hot flashes, like it it nipped that in the bud pretty quickly.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's literally the one thing that I haven't experienced yet.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Touch wood, it's gonna happen.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you're already on HRT, right?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I've got some testosterone cream.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: My husband says that I'm stronger from it.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I went to go past him the other day and he's like, What?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I'm weak.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, like you know, I'm 44.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's pretty young.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the fact that you're on it now didn't start till beginning of last year.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Beginning of last year, and I was 49.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, I'm not mucking around in the sense that I got a lot of stuff on my plate and I You do the brain fog is the scene that kills me, and I'm the multitasking queen, and I just struggled hard out.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just knows I love rapid fire, and I haven't even asked Di these questions.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Normally in the brief, I give the person that I'm interviewing heads up, at least a little heads up, so just they're not deer in the headlights.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: But because I've known Dae so long, I'm not even going to give her the heads up.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: She's just gonna live on the edge here.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: First question that I want to ask, okay, what's something that really annoys you?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're I'm completely going off track here, but what is something that annoys you?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think what probably annoys me most in life is people that sit in the right-hand lane.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's ridiculous on the freeway.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yep.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: I re I reckon there's gonna be a few people that will be nodding their head going, yes, definitely.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's a personal trait that you think all humans, so I'm gonna say humans, it's not just ladies, it's gonna be men as well.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's a personal trait that you think all humans should have as an absolute must?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think professionally, and given my more recent 30-year end, integrity and honesty.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that will get you a long way.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Building trust.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, integrity and honesty.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's good.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And lastly, the last one is what's a skill that you wish that you could instantly have?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I haven't thought about this one.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, I suppose I I ha often hear how people see me, but I don't see myself the way other people see me.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a wonderful colleague at work and she said, you just don't see yourself the way I see you.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the same with what you've just said, Emma, is just seeing giving yourself a bit more credit.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're all such the biggest critics, um, me included.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: What was the question?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's my metaphors brain.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: The skill that you wish that I could instantly give you right now.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Confidence.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Testing my interviewing skills you make it.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: A skill that you wish you instantly had, and Dye saying confidence to me has just rattled me for a six because anybody that knows Die, she just oozes confidence.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess you could say this is one of those times where you think you know someone and you actually don't, and that's not a criticism of you.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's just I wish you could see that.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I wish you could.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: If I could give you a skill right now, if I could give you something that I had the power to give you, it would be to see just how good you are and to see just how well you've done in the face of adversity and the things that you've gone through, which will be it for part two in the future.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the stuff that you've gone through, you know, there's an there's a list.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And not only that, even just the story that you spoke about today, there will be people that will be listening to this going, There is no way in the freaking universe would have I completed a university degree, let alone move to a completely new town, then on top of that, then decide to do my master's.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And having children that you need to raise all at the same time, like it just wouldn't happen.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: So you you need to look at the things that you've achieved in the past 15 years, you know, even the last decade, the last five years, you've achieved an incredible amount of things, life, friendships, works that you should be really truly, you know, proud of yourself.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: On that note, every single episode I give I ask my guests to give a shout out.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you've thought about somebody.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: I would have to say I have five sisters and collectively they are amazing women.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Some of my sisters have undergone the most challenging, difficult situations of health, their children.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am always in awe of what my sisters have endured.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: I have also got sisters that have achieved so much and are still achieving so much, and collectively they are amazing women.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was not an easy home to grow up in and for them to be able to still come out on top.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: I honour them as my sisters.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's so sweet.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And look, a shout out to the five sisters.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: They know who they are if they're happening to tune in in today's episode with Di.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say thank you for joining me here in your studio/slash apartment.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've had the best fun talking with you and I appreciate your absolute complete honesty and rawness in being vulnerable with me.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there will be people out there that will be truly grateful for you sharing your stories today.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Di.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Emma.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a it's been a I don't know if it's been a pleasure or what, I don't know.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'll always support you in your endeavours, and I'm really proud of what you've achieved.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: So go you.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Di.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Emma, if I could just say one last thing.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'd just like to say, um, take a moment to talk about the people who've been at the heart of all of this.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: My beautiful children.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I couldn't have done any of it without them.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: The past few years haven't been easy and they've had a lot to navigate.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: But through it all, they've done they've shown so much resilience.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're happy, grounded, and genuinely balanced young people, and that means everything to me.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: My eldest is currently working through her master's degree, and I have to say she's absolutely smashing adulthood and has a beautiful fiance.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Watching her grow into who she is is is incredible.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And my younger two, who are still in high school, they're just thriving in their own ways.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: They love their sport, they're creative, full of energy, and just they're really great humans to be around.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't be prouder of them.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, this mama's heart is very, very full.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening to She Said It Out Loud.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you took something away from today's episode, I would love to hear from you.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Go find me on Instagram at officially Emma Young.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And hit follow so new episodes land straight in your feed.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time for more real and honest stories from legendary women.