Latest / The Myth of Education Podcast / Ep. 09 | Tom Horne, ESAs, and (D)(I) (E)

Transcript

Ep. 09 | Tom Horne, ESAs, and (D)(I) (E) · The Myth of Education Podcast

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SPEAKER_00: the first thing I want to do is state the obvious.
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All views and opinions expressed by hosts and guests are their
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own and do not
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SPEAKER_00: reflect the views of any public or private person or entity.
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1:24
I want to start by informing listeners that this podcast is not
1:28
intended as an
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endorsement or an indictment of any candidate that's currently
1:32
holding or running
1:32
SPEAKER_00: for office.
1:33
We're simply here to vet the words and actions and give our
1:37
opinions of the
1:38
SPEAKER_00: candidates we vote for.
1:40
The time of conservatives voting in people they like,
1:43
quote unquote,
1:44
needs to come to an end.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Nice people are why Arizona is turning into California.
1:50
Conservatives should only vote in Republicans who follow the
1:53
Constitution.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Whether or not they like their personality is irrelevant.
1:58
We're not taking these candidates to dinner or bringing them
2:02
home to meet the parents.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: When we vote people into office,
2:04
we are agreeing that these are the men and women who have the
2:07
integrity to lead our
2:08
SPEAKER_00: communities and our state.
2:10
We're affirming that they have the spine to hold to the
2:12
convictions they claim to
2:13
SPEAKER_00: have on the campaign trail.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: And at some point,
2:16
we as constituents need to hold our elected and appointed
2:20
officials accountable.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's what this episode is about.
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SPEAKER_00: Dan, would you say you agree or disagree with that statement?
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SPEAKER_01: I agree.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm right there with you.
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So I wanted to start by addressing some of the inconsistencies
2:34
that I see in local
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school boards at the Arizona Department of Education and then
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the State Board of
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Education as it regards DEI.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: So in September 2025, Peoria Unified was targeted by leftist adults.
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They gaslit the students to have them come in protest in favor
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of keeping a DEI
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SPEAKER_00: dramatic arts program.
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SPEAKER_00: I interviewed the PUSD board president on this show.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: If anyone wants to go back and listen at mythofeducation.com.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: At the time,
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I also wrote an op-ed where I said Tom Horn was in favor of
3:06
keeping that racist
3:08
SPEAKER_00: arts program.
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But the more accurate way to say this would have been to say
3:12
that his department,
3:14
SPEAKER_00: that is the AZDOE,
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SPEAKER_00: which is Horn's administration,
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SPEAKER_00: was in favor of keeping the program.
3:19
And this,
3:20
too,
3:20
was according to the Peoria Unified Superintendent,
3:23
Dr.
3:23
Casey Summers.
3:25
And his statements can be heard during the August 28th school
3:28
board meeting.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: And it was also echoed in a news article.
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SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to leave links in the show notes.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: So basically,
3:35
all five Peoria Unified Board members ended up voting to keep
3:39
the DEI Dramatic Arts
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Partnership with EDTA,
3:42
SPEAKER_00: among other partnerships.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Now,
3:44
although I understand why the conservative majority voted the
3:48
way they did,
3:49
it's ultimately a decision that I disagree with when
3:52
organizations can't be
3:54
SPEAKER_00: compelled to comply with state and federal laws or executive orders.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: Their programs, in my opinion, should not be funded by taxpayers.
4:02
So the kids may cry about losing their DEI arts program,
4:07
but they will get over it.
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SPEAKER_00: There are other arts programs that we could have looked into,
4:11
and we shouldn't have programs that award people based on their
4:17
melanin levels.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Now,
4:19
SPEAKER_00: to my understanding,
4:21
the agreement between PUSD and the racist art programs is it's
4:25
not binding and can
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SPEAKER_00: be terminated if EDTA is found liable for pumping diversity,
4:31
SPEAKER_00: equity,
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SPEAKER_00: inclusion into the district.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Now, here's another thing that took place.
4:35
The Arizona Department of Education called out Peoria Unified
4:40
on Facebook recently,
4:42
SPEAKER_00: admonishing them to follow through,
4:44
SPEAKER_00: quote unquote,
4:44
follow through with its decision to eliminate DEI from its
4:48
teaching standards.
4:50
This most directly affected teachers' ability to attend
4:54
out-of-state professional
4:56
SPEAKER_00: development conferences.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: And these conferences,
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SPEAKER_00: Dan,
4:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you know,
5:00
SPEAKER_00: they're known to be DEI,
5:03
SPEAKER_00: CRT,
5:04
SPEAKER_00: SEL,
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SPEAKER_00: LGBTQ kind of hotspots.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: And so...
5:08
SPEAKER_00: No real professional development,
5:09
SPEAKER_00: in my opinion,
5:10
SPEAKER_00: goes on there,
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at least not to the degree that it's helping raise any academic
5:15
benchmarks in
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Arizona public education.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: So now Peoria voted to eliminate these conferences.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: So if all of these reports are true,
5:25
SPEAKER_00: everything that I'm laying out,
5:26
SPEAKER_00: that the AZDOE wanted to keep the DEI arts program,
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but then they wanted to get rid of the DEI conferences that the
5:35
teachers are going
5:36
SPEAKER_00: to,
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SPEAKER_00: My question is, I guess, is DEI okay in some instances, but not others?
5:43
This also brings me to this highly publicized fight we now see
5:47
happening between
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Arizona State Superintendent Tom Horn and the AZ Board of Ed.
5:53
So why do you think we're seeing inconsistencies on these
5:57
different education
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SPEAKER_00: leadership levels when it comes to eliminating DEI?
6:02
Yeah,
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it's really interesting on that consistency,
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or I should say lack thereof.
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SPEAKER_01: You're either for,
6:09
SPEAKER_01: in principle,
6:10
SPEAKER_01: this DEI,
6:12
SPEAKER_01: diversity,
6:12
SPEAKER_01: equity,
6:13
SPEAKER_01: inclusion,
6:13
SPEAKER_01: and the racist principles that are behind it,
6:16
SPEAKER_01: or you're against it.
6:17
Just today,
6:18
we were watching the State Board of Education meeting,
6:23
and I was more...
6:24
SPEAKER_01: taken aback by what was not said.
6:27
Because in that meeting,
6:29
there was a focus on all the funding that is at risk.
6:33
There was not any conversation about this from anyone on the
6:38
board or Tom Horn or
6:39
SPEAKER_01: his deputy there.
6:41
who was presenting about DEI being a good thing or DEI being a
6:45
bad thing.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: It was just about the funding.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: That's a little surprising because Tom Horn, as you know, has campaigned.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: He had big, huge signs in the campaign, no CRT.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: That was his big thing.
6:57
And so why tone it down there or completely reverse course in
7:03
the example you gave at Peoria?
7:06
I've seen him like a bright,
7:09
shiny object get distracted at different districts.
7:14
for what seems to be the biggest bang in the media or the most
7:20
exposure for,
7:21
SPEAKER_01: for him and what he's trying to accomplish.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to give any impression that I'm reading his mind of his
7:26
SPEAKER_01: motivations,
7:27
but it does appear that sometimes there's some inconsistency
7:31
depending on what he
7:32
SPEAKER_01: sees might be,
7:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
7:34
SPEAKER_01: beneficial to expose him in a positive way.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: So I think there's going to be,
7:40
SPEAKER_01: conflict there maybe with his principals?
7:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: It's just unfortunate that there's that inconsistency.
7:47
Okay,
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well,
7:47
you touched on something,
7:48
and this is a follow-up question that I have from that.
7:51
So do you think the Arizona Department of Education truly cares
7:54
about the harmful
7:55
SPEAKER_00: effects of DEI,
7:56
SPEAKER_00: and that's why they called out Peoria?
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Or are they just making a show of this because millions of
8:02
dollars are potentially in danger?
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're just trying to protect assets.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you think Warren's fight with the state BOE is a legitimate fight,
8:10
or is this a ruse to just lock in the Republican voting base
8:14
for next November?
8:15
Forgive me,
8:16
Tiffany,
8:16
but you might be giving them to the board a little bit too much
8:18
credit.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: I think there's another option there.
8:21
They may not care about DEI or they may not have become
8:27
familiar with it enough to
8:28
SPEAKER_01: have formed an opinion on it.
8:31
Or they see it as too politically explosive and they don't want
8:33
to touch it.
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SPEAKER_01: Or maybe they have what they perceive as an unpopular opinion about it.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of reasons why maybe they handle it the way they do.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: And everybody just points to the big elephant in the room saying,
8:46
SPEAKER_01: hey,
8:47
SPEAKER_01: there's $866 million at stake.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: We need to focus on that.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: It's not my politics.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: It's that big thing.
8:55
You know,
8:55
a chunk of money that we don't want to put anybody at risk for
8:59
the kids.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, they can really dodge the whole.
9:02
What's really,
9:03
I think,
9:04
at this foundation,
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problematic,
9:06
the problem with with DEI.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: It's racist.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we don't want to have racism.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: And it's clearly Marxist in its underlying assumptions.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: And so we should be able to point that out,
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SPEAKER_01: I think,
9:21
SPEAKER_01: and say,
9:22
SPEAKER_01: hey,
9:22
SPEAKER_01: we don't want this kind of thing.
9:24
Instead,
9:25
it becomes this football who's going to just be saving so much
9:29
money in this funding.
9:30
They don't even go to why Trump is putting this executive order
9:34
in place or whether
9:36
SPEAKER_01: they agree with it or not.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: And this is what really drives me nuts, Tiffany.
9:39
And I see it at my local level is that they always kick the
9:43
ball down the road.
9:44
And so they at my local level will say,
9:47
well,
9:48
what are other districts doing?
9:50
And then they will ask,
9:51
well,
9:52
what is the department asking or what is the board deciding?
9:57
SPEAKER_01: What are they doing nationally?
9:58
SPEAKER_01: And they keep like kicking it down.
10:00
And I want to ask like the question from office space that
10:04
called classic from 25 years ago.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: What exactly do you do here?
10:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, well, why did we vote you in?
10:13
Do you not have any awareness of what's going on or do you not
10:17
have the courage to
10:18
SPEAKER_01: make a decision on your own?
10:19
SPEAKER_01: You always have to defer to somebody else.
10:22
So that's a little bit of what I think they're doing at the
10:24
state level is that
10:25
SPEAKER_01: they're not wanting to own it and make the hard,
10:28
SPEAKER_01: potentially for some people,
10:30
controversial decision to end this DEI because there were some
10:34
people there
10:34
SPEAKER_01: speaking in favor of it.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Well,
10:37
you're the first person and you'll be the last person to accuse
10:40
me of giving the
10:41
SPEAKER_00: Department of Education too much credit.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Because that's not my intention.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to understand because when it comes to the state level,
10:50
SPEAKER_00: the state board of education,
10:52
SPEAKER_00: these are money people.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: These are number people.
10:55
And they're trying to diagnose underlying problems just based
10:59
on that one huge symptom.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: So Horn was in a Fox 10 interview recently.
11:05
He claims that he passed up tons of money in promotions after
11:09
serving as the state
11:10
SPEAKER_00: attorney general from 2011 to 2015.
11:13
And he passed up all of this because he wanted to try to fix
11:16
the schools in Arizona.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Horn served as state superintendent from 2003 to 2011.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: And then he was reelected, obviously, in 2023.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: When asked why our schools always rank so low,
11:28
SPEAKER_00: because,
11:29
SPEAKER_00: of course,
11:29
SPEAKER_00: we're always number 49,
11:30
SPEAKER_00: number 50 in the nation.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Horn said that it was the focus of leadership, quote unquote.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: He said other state superintendents between his terms,
11:41
SPEAKER_00: before and between his terms,
11:42
SPEAKER_00: were focused on other things.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: But he's focused on academics.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, it was funny.
11:46
There was a state superintendent who served between his terms,
11:49
Diane Douglas.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: She served from 2015 to 2019.
11:53
I've listened to her testimony about the time that she had when
11:56
she was in office.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's not an easy job.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: She wouldn't say that she did everything right.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: But I'm 100% sure.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: that Douglas would say that she was focused on academics.
12:07
But she would probably also say that she had a department and
12:10
she had some board
12:11
members who were not necessarily working with her to get some
12:15
things done.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: But many people that I know, they love and respect Diane's leadership.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'd be curious to know her thoughts about Horn's comments.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: There's also this incident.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people probably forgot about this.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: So in March of 2025,
12:30
Horn held a crackdown press conference with Maricopa County
12:35
Sheriff Jerry Sheridan.
12:37
And this is where they both announced that they would be
12:39
looking into criminalizing
12:40
SPEAKER_00: or penalizing parents for truancy.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: And I'll link to that in the show notes as well.
12:45
But I wrote this snarky op-ed where I called them Tweedledum
12:49
and Tweedledee for
12:50
SPEAKER_00: making those crass public statements.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Horn listened to that presentation by Helios and West Ed,
12:58
SPEAKER_00: and this showed significant absenteeism basically since COVID.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: The question going through my head was, did they drill down deeper?
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Did they go to the site level?
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Did they go to the district level?
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Did they go talk to truancy officers?
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Did they go talk to those officers in the juvenile detention center?
13:18
SPEAKER_00: Because that, to me, would have been helpful data.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: But again,
13:22
that's just only looking at a symptom and not trying to get to
13:24
the root cause of
13:25
SPEAKER_00: the problem.
13:26
Although one state board member said they should look into why
13:29
those numbers were
13:30
SPEAKER_00: so high,
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Horn decided to pull the trigger on
13:33
on that conference and basically he called for quote-unquote
13:36
radical efforts to
13:37
SPEAKER_00: combat chronic absenteeism.
13:39
Essentially the majority of parents they know where their kids
13:42
are even if the
13:43
government doesn't know where the kids are and they aren't
13:46
learning that much in
13:47
SPEAKER_00: school anyway.
13:48
I thought the situation was pretty asinine that Horn would lead
13:52
a charge like that
13:53
SPEAKER_00: and it never should have happened the way that it did.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: It seems like a no-brainer to me that if you want students to come back
13:59
SPEAKER_00: then you would start courting the parents.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: So he kept saying,
14:02
SPEAKER_00: though,
14:02
SPEAKER_00: he kept making this statement that when I was in an office,
14:05
SPEAKER_00: DEI came back or the scores decreased.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And so now I have to come back in and fix it.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Does everything just fall apart when Tom Horn's not in office?
14:14
Like that was what I came away with feeling after watching that
14:18
Fox interview.
14:19
But what are your thoughts about Horn's comments on the lack of
14:24
leadership being
14:25
the reason why our numbers are testing and scoring is so low in
14:30
the state of
14:30
SPEAKER_00: Arizona?
14:31
SPEAKER_01: It sounds a little bit like an easy out when you're asked that question.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: And part of that is that it's so general just to say leadership.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe he didn't even want to name names.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: Just just say generally the people that were doing this before me.
14:46
It's kind of like a president blaming the past president and
14:49
just moving on.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Why not give specifics about what they weren't doing that you're doing?
14:54
SPEAKER_01: What are you doing that's making things better now?
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Because you're right, we've always been at the way bottom.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: We're at the bottom academic performance, bottom teacher pay.
15:04
But you know where we're really rising is we're spending a lot
15:07
more money on
15:09
SPEAKER_01: support services and counseling and non-classroom instruction.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: We're not at the bottom there.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: We were doing really,
15:18
really well as far as large amounts of money diverting away
15:22
from instruction.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: And that's been happening for a while.
15:25
I don't have it in front of me to know when the trend really
15:29
started to happen.
15:30
Now,
15:30
it's no surprise,
15:31
OK,
15:32
Horn is not favored among a lot of Republicans.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: And in April of 2025,
15:37
AZ Free News put out an article titled Arizona Freedom Caucus
15:42
Looks to Replace
15:43
SPEAKER_00: Superintendent of Public Instruction.
15:45
The article highlights Senator Hoffman's statements wherein he
15:49
called Horn,
15:50
SPEAKER_00: quote,
15:51
SPEAKER_00: the single greatest threat to the ESA program.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: And he accused Horn of not doing enough to protect the program.
15:58
Horn claims to be a proponent of ESA and that he's fighting to
16:02
keep this program compliant.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: So in the Fox 10 interview,
16:06
one of the hosts proposed that ESA usage might go down if the
16:10
DEI problem is
16:12
SPEAKER_00: resolved.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: Now,
16:14
I personally think that parents should not stop taking control
16:18
of their children's
16:19
SPEAKER_00: education.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: God gave the kids to the parents to train up, not to the government.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: And so if ESA is what's available right now,
16:26
SPEAKER_00: then that's what they should be doing to take hold of the reins.
16:29
Yeah,
16:30
there's some weird stuff happening with ESA with these
16:35
disclosure accidents.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: And there's also this battle with the ESA handbook.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: There's a battle with rejecting parent requests for things.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: There's the whole investigation that Mays is doing with ESA.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: I think the one case she has involves people from out of state.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if she's got any cases involved.
16:57
of fraud here in the state,
16:59
but there's claims of buying diamonds and lingerie.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: iPhones or all sorts of stuff.
17:07
I wanted to touch base on that,
17:09
too,
17:09
about the data leak is what I'm going to call it.
17:14
So as a journalist,
17:16
it is of the highest priority that I protect people's identity.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: If someone comes to me and they want to blow the whistle on something,
17:25
I automatically default to either giving them an alias or
17:28
putting something in my
17:29
SPEAKER_00: voice and just quoting them indirectly.
17:31
So it was just somebody being careless and not redacting that
17:34
parent's name.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, the child's name was not exposed.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: But the fact that the parents' names were,
17:41
SPEAKER_00: it wouldn't be hard for somebody to track down who that child was.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And then to your point,
17:47
SPEAKER_00: the whole buying the diamonds,
17:48
SPEAKER_00: the lingerie,
17:49
SPEAKER_00: the flat screen TVs,
17:50
SPEAKER_00: I saw all of that too.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: I think that that is,
17:54
SPEAKER_00: to me,
17:54
that's all theater and it's all silly because we have crisis in
17:59
Arizona public
18:00
SPEAKER_00: schools.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Even if,
18:02
SPEAKER_00: let's say,
18:03
some parent did the tacky thing to use a little bit of that ESA
18:07
money to put a down
18:09
SPEAKER_00: payment on a K's ring or whatever.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: I personally,
18:13
SPEAKER_00: as a taxpayer,
18:14
I'm going to care a whole lot less about that than the millions
18:18
and billions and
18:19
billions that we are wasting on a public education system that
18:23
cannot produce
18:24
SPEAKER_00: citizens that can read books.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: On a 12th grade level,
18:28
SPEAKER_00: when they graduate,
18:29
SPEAKER_00: they're still reading at a fourth grade reading level.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: They can't do math.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: They can barely write.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: If I'm an employer and I'm looking at the hiring pool in my community,
18:40
it makes me feel like I can't hire somebody that graduates from
18:43
the public school
18:44
SPEAKER_00: in my community.
18:45
So those are the types of fights that I would like to see our
18:48
education continue.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: leaders involved in is how do we raise those scores?
18:53
How do we get to the place where Arizona can truly compete with
18:59
other states and
19:01
SPEAKER_00: have world changers coming out of the state of Arizona?
19:05
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: And,
19:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
19:07
SPEAKER_01: I think some of those those diamond examples,
19:09
it seems a little bit like a straw man or a red herring because
19:13
there's got to be a
19:14
SPEAKER_01: fix to that.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
19:15
SPEAKER_01: you're pointing out something that is so obscenely,
19:18
SPEAKER_01: obviously wrong to everybody that you could fix that.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: So to your point,
19:22
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
19:23
SPEAKER_01: even with that kind of abuse,
19:25
it's still worth it because it's saving the state a lot of
19:29
money and it's allowing
19:30
SPEAKER_01: kids to really thrive.
19:31
So there's some measurable,
19:33
I would argue,
19:34
effects of that,
19:35
even with the waste.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Now, maybe I misunderstood the article.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: And if I get these facts wrong, somebody can correct me later.
19:41
But basically,
19:42
there was a referral that was made to the Maricopa County
19:45
attorney.
19:46
And I think that the balance that I saw that was subject to
19:50
investigation was like $315,000.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: $315,000.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: You think about a school district like Mesa.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Mesa,
20:02
SPEAKER_00: as far as instruction,
20:05
SPEAKER_00: teachers that they have to pay,
20:06
SPEAKER_00: like their budget for one school year,
20:09
SPEAKER_00: it can reach close to a billion dollars because that district is so big.
20:16
And then I'm gonna leave it up to the audience to go and look
20:18
at the test scores,
20:19
SPEAKER_00: the reading scores,
20:20
SPEAKER_00: the science and the math scores in Mesa and see if that makes sense.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Why would I care if somebody bought a flat screen TV and
20:31
SPEAKER_00: with their ESA money, but their kid is producing good work,
20:39
SPEAKER_00: They can graduate.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: They can get a good job.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's a couple of thousand dollars we had to eat behind that parent.
20:45
SPEAKER_00: Because let's be real,
20:46
SPEAKER_00: those of us who borrowed money when we went to college,
20:49
SPEAKER_00: we didn't spend that all on books either.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: But compare that to school districts that are multiple millions,
20:56
SPEAKER_00: close to billions of dollars of money.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: And this is year over year.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: It's not a one-time thing.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And they graduate and can't even hardly speak proper English.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: You're making such a great point.
21:11
You're just scratching the surface and you're just talking
21:13
about the academic differences.
21:15
And I would suggest that there are millions of dollars that are
21:19
being pumped in by
21:20
our state into the education system that are doing worse than
21:24
wasting money.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: It's worse than fraud, even in my view.
21:29
I think that they there is this large campaign to be able to
21:34
fund an ideology that
21:35
SPEAKER_01: is harming kids.
21:37
They're driving them down a road to be radical activists and in
21:42
some cases really
21:43
hurt their own bodies and their own minds by being filled with
21:47
this toxic.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: ideology that is worse than a waste.
21:52
It is harmful and it's eroding what made this country great in
21:57
our Western values.
21:58
That's harder to put into a spreadsheet or show a chart and
22:03
show academic performance.
22:06
But I would suggest it's worse than a waste of money because
22:09
it's undoing what
22:10
SPEAKER_01: we've worked so hard to build up the virtue and character in our society.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's sad to see.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: So I think as bad as buying a diamond is,
22:21
SPEAKER_01: and I think if anybody's buying a diamond,
22:23
SPEAKER_01: maybe they should get charged by the county attorney.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: But if you're worried about that, you're taking your eye off the ball.
22:35
SPEAKER_00: I want to touch on something that you just talked about here,
22:38
SPEAKER_00: because in our previous episode,
22:40
I had asked this question of what incentive do school districts
22:45
and people in
22:46
SPEAKER_00: leadership in education,
22:48
SPEAKER_00: what incentive do they have to do what's right?
22:52
SPEAKER_00: And in that episode,
22:53
SPEAKER_00: you said,
22:53
SPEAKER_00: well,
22:54
SPEAKER_00: it depends on what right is,
22:55
SPEAKER_00: because unfortunately,
22:56
SPEAKER_00: we're not in agreement with what is morally right.
23:00
And you were talking just a second ago about Western values and
23:04
the moral fabric of our nation.
23:07
You and I would agree that foundationally Christianity is
23:11
there,
23:12
Judeo-Christianity.
23:13
So the Old and the New Testament is foundational to the
23:16
Constitution and to the
23:18
SPEAKER_00: values that we would associate with the West.
23:21
Now,
23:22
when you come into a situation of education,
23:25
right,
23:25
this is a public service.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: This is publicly funded.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: It's taxpayer dollars.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: What right do parents have to come into that space,
23:37
SPEAKER_00: the public space,
23:38
SPEAKER_00: and say,
23:39
SPEAKER_00: I want you to teach my child this,
23:41
SPEAKER_00: not this?
23:43
SPEAKER_00: What recourse do they really have?
23:46
SPEAKER_00: Just say that on moral grounds, not just not legal grounds.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: We know we have parental rights bill,
23:51
SPEAKER_00: but on moral grounds,
23:53
what right do parents have to come into a public space where
23:56
you have kids who come
23:57
SPEAKER_00: from atheist families,
23:59
SPEAKER_00: Hindu families,
24:00
SPEAKER_00: this,
24:00
SPEAKER_00: that,
24:00
SPEAKER_00: the third.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And morally, we're all trying to draw from these different places.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Well,
24:07
SPEAKER_01: as a Christian parent,
24:09
the only reason I would want to be that parent to object and to
24:14
criticize the
24:15
district would be because they're pushing a religious point of
24:20
view on my child.
24:22
So I think we have to turn things a little bit around and
24:26
realize that there's
24:27
SPEAKER_01: already a religious ideology that's happening.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: If it was neutral,
24:33
SPEAKER_01: if there was not a religious ideology being pressed upon my kid,
24:37
I wouldn't complain about it because then he can carry on or
24:42
she can carry on in
24:43
SPEAKER_01: their religious worldview just fine.
24:47
But the problem is when they come up to a conflict and there's
24:52
a doctrine out there
24:54
in secular society that love is giving someone whatever they
24:58
want or makes them
24:59
SPEAKER_01: sexually satisfied.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: For me,
25:02
SPEAKER_01: as a Christian,
25:03
SPEAKER_01: love is a self-sacrificial interest for another,
25:09
SPEAKER_01: pointing them to the way God made them.
25:12
Those are not compatible views of what it means to be loving
25:15
and empathetic and all
25:17
SPEAKER_01: the things that flow from that.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: So we can say the same words and say,
25:22
I care about this child that's claiming to be transgender and
25:26
here's how I want to
25:27
SPEAKER_01: love them.
25:28
But somebody else,
25:29
when they see how I love them,
25:31
may think that that's hate.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: So you have this conflict.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: And so to answer your question,
25:36
I think we need to stand firm in our rights to voice our
25:41
religious beliefs and for
25:43
SPEAKER_01: us to have children who can be safe in their religious beliefs.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: when they are up against attack,
25:50
especially in an environment that is throwing a contrary
25:55
worldview their way.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: For those who may not be aware,
25:58
the religion that Dan is talking about being pushed in public
26:02
schools is secular
26:03
SPEAKER_00: humanism.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: It is protected under the First Amendment as a religion,
26:07
even though people who are secularists would disagree because
26:10
they would say that
26:11
SPEAKER_00: they're not pushing a god.
26:13
They disagree until they want the First Amendment right in
26:16
court and then they'll
26:17
SPEAKER_01: say it's a religion.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's going out of convenience.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: So in the secular humanist religion, basically self is God.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: That's what humanism is.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: It's the worship and the deification of self.
26:27
And one of the moral ideologies of secular humanism is
26:31
diversity,
26:32
equity and inclusion.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's basically informing you of what your moral views ought to be.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: The problem is, is that it is very shallow.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: It is racist and it's completely backwards.
26:43
I want to wrap up in talking about some of the decisions that
26:46
have just come from
26:47
SPEAKER_00: the State Board of Ed still as it pertains to DEI.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: On October 27th,
26:51
SPEAKER_00: the State Board of Ed,
26:51
SPEAKER_00: they had a meeting and these appointed officials,
26:54
they basically delayed their vote to remove DEI from its
26:57
teaching practices.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Horn wrote a public dissent.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: And now we have the vote that just took place today, December 8th.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: By the time people listen to this, it'll be a couple of days later.
27:08
But what I saw immediately following the meeting were some
27:12
headlines that basically
27:13
said the State Board of Ed voted to begin the process of
27:16
removing the DEI language
27:19
SPEAKER_00: from the classroom standards.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: However, this is from the lead of Arizona's family.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: However, the board said they wanted more time to rewrite the policies.
27:33
What more time,
27:34
what time could they possibly need to rewrite their policies?
27:38
SPEAKER_00: What time do they need?
27:40
It's really funny because they rely heavily on these national
27:44
nonprofits that
27:45
SPEAKER_01: provide these standards.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: So the Council of Chief State School Officers,
27:50
SPEAKER_01: CCSSO,
27:52
SPEAKER_01: is who is the agency in charge of Intask,
27:57
SPEAKER_01: who establishes these standards.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: And so Arizona largely adopts them.
28:01
and can tweak them so they're already there and written they
28:06
already copy and paste
28:07
those largely so to your point yes how long would it take to
28:12
just alter that and
28:14
you know what gives me some hope is there's dei and there is
28:18
really a lot of
28:20
critical theory and far left stuff really woven into a lot of
28:25
what's going on
28:26
SPEAKER_01: at the board of education in the standards that I've seen.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: And so maybe, well, this is overly thinking, overly optimistic.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: The only reason they would need a lot of time is to change all of it.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: But they're only looking at very specific verbiage.
28:43
I think they pointed out what three different places where they
28:45
wanted to change the language.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: So your point, that could be five minutes, Tiffany.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Would it take them that long?
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: But they're going to start in September.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: You know what I think?
28:54
What they really want to do is wait until the next presidential
28:57
election to see if
28:59
SPEAKER_00: they can get some far left nut job to take Trump's place.
29:02
And then with the stroke of a pen,
29:04
just do away with those executive orders.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: And then they could not own it once again and point to them and say,
29:10
SPEAKER_01: oh,
29:10
SPEAKER_01: we don't want to risk our funding.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Same old song.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, we arrived at the same conclusion.
29:18
I think this fight between Horn and the state board of ed is
29:23
probably something
29:23
SPEAKER_00: that would continue if he's reelected.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how effective this is.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how productive this is.
29:30
I think that if the Arizona Freedom Caucus is saying that
29:34
they're looking for
29:35
SPEAKER_00: another candidate,
29:36
SPEAKER_00: then that is going to shift the perception of the base.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: His primary opponent is Kimberly Yee.
29:42
I don't know anything about her,
29:43
but I plan to look into her before the primaries.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Again, we're not endorsing anybody on this podcast.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: We want people to do their research,
29:51
SPEAKER_00: ask hard questions,
29:52
SPEAKER_00: vote in the constitutional conservative candidates,
29:55
vote in people who will back and protect the ESAs and shift the
29:59
priority back to
30:01
SPEAKER_00: academics.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: So much of public education is about finance,
30:06
SPEAKER_00: the business of the district,
30:07
SPEAKER_00: the business of the state,
30:09
SPEAKER_00: trying to just make things look good on a spreadsheet.
30:12
And also just complying on a very surface level with what the
30:16
federal government is
30:17
SPEAKER_00: saying just to keep the funding.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: None of these things has the children in mind, in my opinion.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like what you said.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: What we want to do is really focus on academics.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: And there's an easy way to measure that with academic performance.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: We shouldn't be 49th.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: We shouldn't be 50th.
30:36
in the nation and in all sorts of ways it's inexcusable so as
30:40
long as we focus on
30:42
the measurable results that we can actually move the ball
30:46
forward that's something
30:48
that should be non-partisan there's something that should be
30:50
across the board so
30:52
let's just focus on that keep the debate on what's best for
30:56
making the kids smarter
31:02
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31:05
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31:06
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31:09
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31:11
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31:25
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, you've been listening to the Myth of Education podcast.