Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 915: Dan Moultrie on the History and Ethics of Trail Cameras and Other Thorny Issues of Wildlife Management

Transcript

Ep. 915: Dan Moultrie on the History and Ethics of Trail Cameras and Other Thorny Issues of Wildlife Management · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: If this is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
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  Speaker 1: predict that anything brought to you by first Light. When
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  Speaker 1: first light dot com. That's f I R S T
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: L I T E dot com. All right, join today
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: by Dan Moultrie. Thanks for coming. Dan. Dan is an outdoorsman, entrepreneur, conservationist,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: best known as the founder of Moultrie pioneering commercial trail
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: cameras and feeders. He served twelve years as chairman of
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Alabama's Department of Natural Resources, EARN and Wildlife Conservationists of
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the Year from the State of Alabama, guided big game
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: in Alaska for many years and remains very active in
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: wildlife conservation. The first thing I want to ask is
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I have to ask you a solution to a problem
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  Speaker 1: I have. Yes, we were down in Texas.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: At my buddy's ranch, Okay, and he's got oslots on
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: his ranch, and these researchers been and they had these
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: little areas where there was oslot activity. So we picked
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: an area that we knew there was oslots hanging around
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: and went in and hung a camera, but had a
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: last minute mind change, so we made a pin ahead
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: of time, being like, we're gonna go put a camera
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: at this pin, but then got there and didn't like
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  Speaker 2: it and wandered off and set a camera.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: We haven't got an oslot.
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  Speaker 2: Yet, but every morning I wake up and I look
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: at we had amazing things like all the time. I'm
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: big buck yesterday, amazing things all the time. But my
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: buddy was out there. This is way down in Texas.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: My buddy is there. I'm like, hey, go to this
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: pin and find the camera. He can't find the camera.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Locate it again.
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, there's a bush.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of bushes.
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  Speaker 2: So he's and this dude, this camera is just plugging
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  Speaker 2: away doing its job.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I can't it's still running.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Is it a solar so it will continue to running?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: No, I didn't put a solar around. I didn't put
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: a solar on it. But it's like it's it's become
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a joke where me and the guys that I said
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: it with, I just constantly every day I'm like, oh,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: here's what happened in front of the camera.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: I would get multiple team to go find that. That's
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: apparently a really good.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: That's a great spot, but no one knows where it is.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Is like, how do I find it?
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  Speaker 3: I don't be tough.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know an equivalent to find my phone because
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I never thought that some idiot would put one and
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: not remember where he put it.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: That's a great question. That's good, that's good.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: It's performing, it's performing away. I mean, I got pictures
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: this morning. I got a big ol'nill guy walking past
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  Speaker 2: this morning. It's a great spot. If I knew where
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: it was, it's on a So we hung it like
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: when we hung it up we hung bird wings from
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: ano film. I put all kinds of I made a
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: tree and I put all kinds of Bobcat lure and
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Bobcat piss. We scattered feathers everywhere and just try to
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: make it like the Oslots, like dream location. And at
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: first it was coyotes coming in all the time. The
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Oslots never shown. But it's it's like.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: The greatest hot spot, you know, have theocats.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: The feather It's so funny because that camera keeps like
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: doing his job. The feathers are all gone, nothing smells
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: the tree anymore. But yeah, I can't locate it.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know, You're just gonna have to go find
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: it again.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So I thought maybe you'd have a tip on how
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to find your camera go back and look.
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  Speaker 2: What's the funniest part is, as he's wandering all over
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  Speaker 2: looking for it, I told him, I said, man, I
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: didn't get a picture you looking for it, so you
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: weren't in the right area, because you think at least
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: out of got a shot of you walking around trying
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  Speaker 2: to find it.
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  Speaker 1: So this camera's gone.
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  Speaker 4: It eund be better if you had a picture of
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: him looking for it. You say, I'll give you your
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  Speaker 4: warm you're.
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  Speaker 1: Warm yet, So all we know is wherever you went
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  Speaker 1: ain't the right area.
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  Speaker 2: That's great, So there might be one of your cameras
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  Speaker 2: is out there somewhere cranking away, but I can't recall.
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  Speaker 3: I'll check with the.
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  Speaker 4: Guys, the engineers, and see if there's any way we
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: can soon down and find that exactly one.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, I would love to you could even get me
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: a pointer like I kind of like.
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  Speaker 2: It's so funny because the three of us that said
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: it like, yeah, I don't really remember what we were
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: thinking about.
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  Speaker 1: I remember we wandered off.
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  Speaker 4: You know, there's so many and just like y'all doing that,
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  Speaker 4: you can't believe the call, just like the calls you
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: get from all your stuff, Hey, guess what we're doing
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  Speaker 4: with the camera.
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  Speaker 3: Here's what we did.
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  Speaker 4: And it goes from a forty year old woman putting
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: it out that you see what time her kids come
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  Speaker 4: in from Dayton who she drags in with them, to
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  Speaker 4: to osilotes, to everything. And that's been one of the
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  Speaker 4: neatest deals I know. At your Christmas event, we had
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: talked about how many pictures we were holding in the
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  Speaker 4: clouds and in the billions and billions of pictures that's
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: been made. A lot of those are hunting, a lot
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: of them are wildlife, a lot of them are security.
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  Speaker 4: But it's that the entire gambit to see what that
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: product has been used for. Yeah, it's off, it's office
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: specterl It's great.
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  Speaker 2: When you go into my buddy's hunting shack, he's just
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  Speaker 2: got it's just sitting on the counter. Yeah, just a
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  Speaker 2: camera sitting on the counter and he's got a note
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  Speaker 2: on the door.
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  Speaker 1: Says, your photo was already on my phone.
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  Speaker 3: That's exactly right, that's exactly right.
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  Speaker 1: So he's like turned around, turn around and go out.
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  Speaker 4: Almost in today with all the different camera companies and
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: even just the numbers we put out, but you combine
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  Speaker 4: all the camera companies, you're out somewhere. You better know
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  Speaker 4: you're you're pretty good at odds. You're getting your picture taken.
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  Speaker 4: A lot of the stuff. The guy who in Colorado
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  Speaker 4: that had killed the girl years ago that they found
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  Speaker 4: in Florida found her off a picture off Moultary camera.
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  Speaker 1: Is that right? Well, that dude, there's that guy. I
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  Speaker 1: can't remember.
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  Speaker 2: It was Wisconsin or Minnesota that killed a state representative
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  Speaker 2: and her husband. They were doing a big man hunt
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  Speaker 2: for him. It was a hunter. Yeah, a hunter called in,
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  Speaker 2: had him on the camera and he says, I got
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  Speaker 2: that guy right now on my property and they came
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: out and yeah, apprehended him.
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  Speaker 4: It's been a neat deal to see it. From in
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: fact until now state it's been.
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  Speaker 1: What like what I can't I can't even remember it
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: like I remember it all coming to be. But what.
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  Speaker 2: If you had to go back to what is the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: genesis in your what is the genesis of the trail
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  Speaker 2: cam as we know it.
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  Speaker 1: Jimmy like, how did it? Where did it even come from?
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  Speaker 4: I tell you mine in hours? And I think we
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: were that. You know, there probably were some people working
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  Speaker 4: on it after the time. But in the early eighties
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  Speaker 4: we were carrying here, here's where mine came from. We
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: were carrying customers to Canada. Black bear hunting really into
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  Speaker 4: it and everybody and you've carried enough people hunting and
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  Speaker 4: you say, hey, what have you taken? Now, I've taken
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  Speaker 4: a black one with a chevron. I've got this and that.
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  Speaker 4: And if you got color phase bears, which we did.
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  Speaker 4: A guy I always say, boh, I had like.
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  Speaker 1: A Suman bear.
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  Speaker 3: They always want a sum I take a red one day.
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  Speaker 4: Always did that, and we were trying to find out
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  Speaker 4: what bears were on, what baits to colors, if we
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  Speaker 4: had somebody that significantly wanted that color. Yeah, those earliest days,
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: we would take big fish hooks like tuna hooks, dull
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: them down, weld them on the barrel, and at some
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  Speaker 4: point that bear is going to rub his arm across
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  Speaker 4: it and it's gonna collect hair.
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  Speaker 3: We would get that hair and if you saw the
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  Speaker 3: color phase you knew.
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  Speaker 4: You didn't know if he was locked in on it,
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  Speaker 4: but you knew what it had been by there. So
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  Speaker 4: and we were getting into that. Well, you know that
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  Speaker 4: bear that comes by. He's a cinnamon, but he's a
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  Speaker 4: big old male, but he's nocturnal. So you had to
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  Speaker 4: figure out time first. In the early days, there was
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  Speaker 4: a little it looked like a wristwatch. There was a
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  Speaker 4: little clock and when the string got pulled, when a
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  Speaker 4: bear broke a string, it would pull a plastic sliver
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  Speaker 4: out of that watch and it would stop the watch.
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  Speaker 4: And so you'd go stick the plastic sliver.
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  Speaker 3: This is in seventy nine eighty eighty one, and you'd
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  Speaker 3: slip it back in three in companies who ended up
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  Speaker 3: making that in earliest days and probably was used for
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  Speaker 3: something construction.
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  Speaker 4: It probably wouldn't even design for hunting. Back then everything
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  Speaker 4: was taking ideas from other stuff. But you plug the
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  Speaker 4: plastic back in and it would start blinking the time
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  Speaker 4: that it went off, so you would have.
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  Speaker 1: They were making it for what purpose for I don't.
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  Speaker 4: Know if it was for construction, for security or something
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  Speaker 4: like that, but you would know what time that had
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: been broken. So you go back and this is the
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: earliest days of bear baits and people doing that. I mean,
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: when it seemed like it was taking off, now that
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: side of honey, you put it back in.
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  Speaker 3: You'd have the time, so you'd say, okay. The first bear.
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  Speaker 4: Brote the string at four point thirty in the afternoon,
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  Speaker 4: typical bear feeding pattern coming in late afternoon. You could
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  Speaker 4: get the time. We had two deals. We wanted to
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: know the times and we wanted to know the color face.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: And I've always been a Rugoberg kind of guy building stuff.
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  Speaker 4: All our most of our products, especially the early days,
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: came from me going down shot, welding it up, building it,
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: getting it right, trashing it, starting again, yea, and making.
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  Speaker 3: What we want.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: And I got a camera.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: I found one that had a year old enough to
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: remember the days of film cameras. And a lot of
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: these folks now like, huh, film, what are you talking about?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when I'm talking about stuff like this is
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: my kids, man, they kind of they don't.
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, twelve pictures and your choices were twelve, twenty four
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: and thirty six past.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Like the drug store or Walmart.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: Whoever had had.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: The biggest problem with all that going away is you
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: don't have those containers anymore. Everybody used to do a
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: great containers for everything official hooks, fish and sinkers. And
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I'll still say to my kids, I'll still talk to
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: them about like I'll be like, I'll still describe, but
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, like a thirty five millimeter film canister,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and they're going, those are good containers.
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: But there was a camera that had a single shot
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: and you're probably and then you had to hand roll it,
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: but you got one shot. I took, Yeah, yeah, I
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: took one of those Victor those biggest rat traps. Victory made,
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: not the little mouse traps, but the rat trap because
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: the treadle on it would move. And I built it
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: on a frame and I de springed it because if
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: it hit it at the power it is, it would
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: have crushed the camera. But where it just had a
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: nice to the spring, yes, and I lined it up
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: with that button on the camera and.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: So first spring, first spring.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I took it up there, not like through a string,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: so it would literally hit the button.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: It would hit the button, but it had to the
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: to where the bait goes.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: The string tied. And I will tell you that the stuff.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: About it, I don't want to act like I understand.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Tell me about the string.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: The string went from where the bait, like if you'd
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: put cheese.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: On the rat.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: The bait holder, that's what holds the arm that trips
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: it lets the treadle from Yeah, got it. So the
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: string would go to that and trap it. Ling would
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: hit that pulls it.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: It trips.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: So you're running like a piece of mono.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: Piece of mono the area anywhere around there, just where
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: it gets on the main trail.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: You know, they're always on the chest trip, so it
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: trips it.
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: That hit that rat trap one picture. First time I
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: go into the bait and I go in and.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: See, how are you holding the camera? Still?
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: Camera camera was mounted. It's just the same way almost today.
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: I put it on a strap right there where the
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: trail was, so it was pointed at the bait and
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: you've secured it to a tree or whatever you had
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: around there. Bear comes down, trips it, it's gone, it
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: turns on. We go in to check it the next morning.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: I go in and all this neat stuff, Like I
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: was telling you about the number of pictures and what
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: Moultrie has grown to and the beans and beans and
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: billions of pictures.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Never has it been better.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: I walked in and saw that mono down and that
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: trail on top of that camera. Deal first picture ever.
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: I take it out, go to the deal. We're up
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: in tomogramy Nor I mean Canada. I carried it to
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: the drug store and you know, they go, you want
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: one hour or three day? I said, I'll take one
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: hour of this one and we get that very first picture.
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: Every bit of it came from that. And after that, when.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: You were doing that, you were did you think about
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: you were just trying to You were just trying to
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: hunt bears.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: All we were doing hunting bears.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: And in fact, really and truly probably I was more
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: interested in the hunting side, like you would have been,
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: than I was the business side of it. And for
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: years we had it. And one of the moguls in
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: our industry, God named Ray Mursky. I don't know if
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: you knew Ray out of Texas, just I mean, a
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: mogul in the hunting industry. The hunting industry wouldn't be
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: where it was today if it wasn't for Ray, and
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: he was He and I hunted together all the time,
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: and he saw that and I showed him some of
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: those pictures and he goes, what do you have?
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: And I was telling him how it works, and he said,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: you've got to develop that for He said you know
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: how good that would be?
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: And I said, you really think that's sill that well?
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: He said, maltr He said it'll be off the chart.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: I'll swing back to another comment here in a minute
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: that Prue's Ray was smart about what he did. So
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: we started development.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Came up with one.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: Came up with that was heat heat censored or motion censored.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: Had our very first camera that we got go to
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: see the buyers, our traditional buyers that were selling feeders
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: and management stuff all over.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: I got hit with you really.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: Think somebody's wife's gonna let them put a three hundred
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: some dollar camera out in the woods Maltrie.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I think so.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: Had trouble getting it was it didn't take legs and
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: today probably besides, I don't know what, I think, cameras
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: may be part of the best selling item in our
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: industry right now that the Ray Mursky comes back in.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: I'd been to Walmart and showed it to the bar.
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: It's just a little outside ideal. Ray was on sporting
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: good board, so there he got in front of those people,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: went back and he said, guys, let me tell you all.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: I've been around this as long as anybody, and Ray
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: was so well respected on Sam Walton's closest friends, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: he said, if y'all put this in, he said, I
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: think it'll be one of the biggest items ever in
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: the hunting fishing category. M he foresaw that forty years ago.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: But what by that point, I mean the rat trap contraption.
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: We had gone by that and had an infrared swish
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: on it down infrared in motion swich.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: When it first came. When first.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: First one by was was infrared motion, which is the
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: same thing that trips your gride.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, how did that work? It worked really good?
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: But did you guys? Was it all contained by that?
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: It was all contained on you know. I always viewed
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: being our industry. The sales and the marketing was the side.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: I never patented anything. All our stuff I never patented
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: e except except we were so on the front edge
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: of the trail camera deal. I thought, you know what,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: it's going to be out in the weather. Nothing envisioned
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: of where it's going to it is now. I thought,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: the secret to this is going to be protecting it
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: from the weather. And we had like a baseball cap
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: hat over the camera box and it protected it. And
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: we patented that only patent I've ever held, and but
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: who knows. After they got sealed up, it was a
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: useless deal. And didn't you know, but I thought it
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: would protect it. But that's kind of where it evolved.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: In fact, I had several guys that was testing. They go, man,
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: we sprayed it with water and it all went all in
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: the front. I said, yeah, that's protecting it from this
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: way water, not that way water.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: But all that has developed from there.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: But so then we got you know, that first generation
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: turned into second generation, second generation, the third generation and
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: taking it from a infrared motion switch off a film camera.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Remember every bit of this film, so you had to
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: have massive battery draw.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Early ones were filmed, everyone early commercially available.
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: Everyone's that we sold. The earliest ones were all film based.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: That's funny bring it up, because like I'm trying to
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: match up sort of my own awareness, and I have
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: no recollection of seeing a film one. But here's what
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I do remember. I remember that you'd go out fishing,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: trolling salmon, and you'd come home with a big scroll
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: of paper because your sonar, your fish finders had a
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: scroll of paper and a pencil.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And you find in those spots, and you could people
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: would be walking around with those rolls of paper in
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: their pocket and they'd open them up and show you
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: fish marks, and you'd carry it around like that. I
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: remember that, but I have no recollection of there being
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: a trail camera with filming it.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: Do you remember at the earliest days of the Shot show.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is back when.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Exist went for it.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: But when we got into it, there was the Browning
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: and Remington's and Winchester's, and we were so early in it.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, we're coming up on fifty years in it.
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: There'd be like maybe baker tree stands and.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Some old, old old categories.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: But every year when you would meet in those earliest
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: shot shows and you'd go to the show, and of course,
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: now just like this morning, like me showing you the airheads,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: are they everybody whips out the phone and whips to them.
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: You would carry packs of photos that you had had
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: enlarged or and you'd be at the show and people
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: are whipping those out and got the photos and.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: The show trail cam photos, the trail camp photos, Like
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: what year would that have been? You put a roll
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: of film and a camera and hung it on a tree.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: That was in the eighties. That was in the eighties
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: because we when we developed digital, we were the first
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: in digital. We were all the way through I think
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: it's first cellular and and all that development came from everybody.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: When digital cameras came, everybody and you were old enough
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: to remember this, everybody had cameras and they were all film.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: Digital comes out and they're like, you mean, I don't
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: have to buy more films. But the problem with digital
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: this was a this this light to have got us.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: This worked us to death figuring this out that for
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: a digital camera to work, it has to be on
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: because I don't know, if you remember the digitals, when
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: they would warm up, you'd hear it and they'd warm up.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: So by the time they warm up, the game had
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: already gone.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: By or spoo. I forgot about that noise.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: So when we were doing all the early prototypes and testing,
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: we had car batteries out there, and they were draining
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: car batteries down because it had to stay on the
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: entire time. You didn't have the time, you know how
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: One of the selling items on cameras now cameras or
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: shutter speed. There was no shutter speed. If you had
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: to wait on that camera to warm up, everything would
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: have been by But got it. Once we got that
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: figured out, then the digital came that.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: But you guys knew you guys knew that the film
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: thing was done. Oh yeah, because if camera like, if
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: people are done buying film for their normal cameras, they're
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: not going to be putting them in the trail cameras.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: The film was over one.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: Of the deals that we would go by, and I
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: was talking to one of your guys this morning about it.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: You see so much item if you go to any
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: sporting good store, any of the national chains, you see
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: sixty feet of an item they're selling. They're selling quite
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: a bit of those, you judged by square footage of
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: the store.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you go in Walmart.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: The impulse buyer for Walmart at that time was got
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: named Clifford Young, and he was telling me how much
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: if you go by the checkout at Walmart.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: His title is Impulse Buyer.
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: Impulse bar and Clifford probably retired now, but he was
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: in over all Impulse items. When you went through the
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: checkout and if you think about what was there, there
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: was film. He had all three film. They had Mars,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: candy bars, they had actually Combs was on there. Items
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: that somebody's going to pick up that they would go,
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: oh yeah, oh yeah, I need to get that right there.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: And he told me back then when I was showing
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: him and he and I'd hunt together about the cameras.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: He said, films dead. He said, our sales are on
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: film is going like that?
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Oh no kidding, And so that forced that.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: And that guaranteed in the same deal you see that
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: shelfs pace gone at all, Walmart, I guarantee it's changing.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I just want to go back to the call the
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: impulse buyer because you know, like and fishing, you had
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: bibbers and fly fishermen wanted to feel special, so they
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: named them strike indicators, right because they just wanted they
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: couldn't handle it. It seems that the dude that's the
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: impulse buyer would want to rebrand his position because most
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: people have, like I have a perception that an impulse
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: buyer is impulsive the other.
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Way around.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Them, like the I don't know man, like the last
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: minute thing you forgot you needed buyer because you'd be like, dude,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: I want to be an impulse buyer, Like I don't
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: want to make an impulse purchase.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: That's that's impulsive.
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: Walmart had to deal and we learned so much from
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: every category, every whether it was the Kabellos, whether it
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: was done where it was whatever in the industry, and
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: fifty years of learning and working with all the merchants
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: and everything's different. Walmart had a deal and I don't
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: know how many people knew about it, but it was
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: and we learned about it from the impulse guy.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: They had an eye them.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: Every year they called the VPI item you ever heard of?
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: That was halet volume producing item on vp VP vp
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: I volume producing item, they would pick one item a year.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: It was cranking.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: That was cranking volume.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: If you will remember this, you go through the checkout
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: at Walmart, they had a huge drum, probably a thirty
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: gallon drum ring pops. Remember when all those kids had
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: vp I item?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Got it?
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: The only sporting good item that ever made it that
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: I know. We had a multiary item as a VPI item.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Oh it was.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: It was a when we came out with the demand
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: feeders for the the the for the that the deer
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: would come up and activate it. And it qualified because
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: low price point, high volume light people by people that
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: won't pay five hundred dollars for a feeder if they
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: picked it. And I've forgotten what the retail was. It
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: on fifteen dollars, seventeen dollars.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: It fit that it and it.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Was was unbelievable.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: But just so we learned that from them, and and
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: and that volume that you could reach with that we
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: knew the cameras. We were onto something, but we had
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: to go through the generations of it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Just what you were talking about heavy.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: But hivy with that thing, because I kind of got
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: you derailed a little bit when I was on the
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: film thing. But like if you when you if if
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: people knew film and I don't even remember putting film
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: in a trail camera.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: But but what wound up being the solve.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: For having a but I'm saying for having a digital
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: camera hanging on a tree that's just on all the time,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: and it's and you got a couple of those batteries
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: there and they're gonna smoke through in two days.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: To solve was finding enough battery power to keep that
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: digital camera on, but finding a digital camera that didn't
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: use much battery power, and finally we found those and
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: got to two of those.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: To me, so there would be for a while that
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: was like powered by car batteries.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: Were all our testing was done car batteries, and it's
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: draining them like there's no as it was in those days,
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: I didn't think we'd get over that hump. That was
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: a very tough hump and trail cameras to get over.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now with the like when you look at the
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: solar stuff coming in, what do you think is the lag? Okay,
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: if you like, if I if I'm thinking of my mind,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: like when you first start seeing solar become popularized, Right,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: what do you feel is the lag where like a
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: thing will happen like battery technology, rechargeable battery.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Lithium solar.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Right, what is the lag between some user groups somewhere
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: identifying solar and then being like I'm probably gonna need
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to bake that into a camera.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, what like what is the delay?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: Like it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: We stay and I'm not I don't think I'm telling
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: any trade secret here that you know hadn't discussed her
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: that you don't know. We stay about at least three
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: years out on what we're developing. Okay, the stuff we
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: got coming in three years, it's gonna, You're not gonna.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: I'm exchieved. It's unbelievable. We just introduced the solar Edge four.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: The technology on it, it should be undrainable.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: You ought to be able to put it out and
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: don't ever touch it.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I already kind of. I already got that with
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: one of the external solar panels.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: The problem is that it's it's bears love those things.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I used to.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: I used to joke with a lot of people, it's
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: hard to teach those bears to tear upall that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: But I got it. So I'll tell you about that.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: A funny situation.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: I put one on a I put one on a trail,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: you know, and the first I'm not Kenny. The first
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: image I got. The first image I got is a
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: bear coming down the trail, right. The second image I
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: got is that camera aimed at the sky. The second
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: image I got is that camera aimed off in one
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: part of the woods. The third image I got is
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: that camera aimed off another part of the woods. And
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: then from there it was just but like, what's funny
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: is once he does that, he's done with it. Yeah,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, He's like, okay, I'm done with that now.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And then he put it back and he just walks
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: by it and walks back for the first time. He's like,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: what in the world is.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: That because he didn't find the tree.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: You know, I know you've done as much black bear
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: baiting probably anybody.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Where this was. This bear has no idea.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: But still, but he could smell your hand pressure and
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: these people that run them where their bait sites. And
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: you see the I see the shows on TV the
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: bear climbing and the guy goes, oh, look at the
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: bear coming up. That bear's not going up that stand
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: to get that guy. He smells where the those hands
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: were on that day, old donnut, and that he's falling
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: up that trail to find the tree at the end
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: of the trail. That's why that there's no doubt, there's
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: no doubt. That's why they go and tear up the cameras.
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: That's why we make.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: He's more drawn to the smell of it than just
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: the look of it.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: He smells where those people. You know, how good a
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: bear's nose is. If that guy had been over there
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: refreshing his bait barrel, and then he goes, let's put
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: up a camera. There's no way if a bloodhound can
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: smell a human in fourteen days track, you think that
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: bear can't smell where somebody had had their hands in
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: jelly donuts and then moved it to the camera. That's
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: why they're going to.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in my mind, and I don't know why.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: In my mind he was like, Visually, I don't I
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: wasn't able to interview him.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: In my mind, he's like, what is that?
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, when they foresee it, that is, but there's still
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: could have had your human sin on it. That him saying,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: I wonder what that is.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I hadn't thought of that.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you feel that I was going to say,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: is it's already kind of there because I've had camera
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: I've had I've had your cameras with a solar, with
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: your external solar that you can kind of move up
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: the tree.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: I've had them run for years.
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: But the new stuff is so it. In fact, Ashley
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: was asking me, I was trying to upgrade my camera
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: supply because I ought to be out to running our
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: newest stuff and getting and I was trying to count
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: up how many cameras we got everywhere, and I mean
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: it's a bunch ofob everybody always says how many of
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: you running?
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: It's a bunch.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: But to get all the news edge stuff, the different
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: in technology every year. Right now, Steve is off the
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: chart difference. Our new stuff eclipses the old stuff. But
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: it's just like anything, that's what's new, that's what's come,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: that's what's been researched. So we finally find the best
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: of the best in the world solar deal. We finally
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: got engineers that figure out a better diagram of schematic
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: to make it do this. It's improving every year. It's
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: beyond where I ever imagine and it's beyond where most people.
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: But the technology on it. Don't mistake the technology put
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: behind these cameras. It's ay force, the team we've had there,
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: it's off the I mean hundreds and hundreds of people
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: working on the technology out and stuff and all the
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: new stuffs off. It's it's great And it didn't This
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: is no selling deal. This is it's just evolving. Now
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: we're right in the evolution of that getting to the
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: best of the best of the bad.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean there's all these.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: It makes sense because you're dealing when you're dealing in
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: you're using technologies that are of significance, like like of
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: significance to aerospace, of significance to defense, of significance to security.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: It's like, so you have.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: A million not a million, but a bunch of different
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: industries being like, how do you make smaller batteries that
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: lasts longer, how do you do how do you use renewable.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Right, So just all these inputs of like of things,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: And it comes from different areas. There's there's inputs we
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: get from law enforcement. There's inputs we get from military
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: applications that's been done.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Look at fishing.
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: If somebody's fishing and GPS is taking them to their
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: spot where they've built a reef that wasn't available to military,
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: discounted that GPS and and for you know, and went
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: to newer technology where they can put a missile through
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: a window at a thousand miles away. A lot of
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: that's coming through our industry.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: You get that.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: We had We had a military guy approach as we went,
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: and so he said, what if I could show you
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: that if there was fog or you know, when you
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: get camera pictures early in the morning and late in
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: the afternoon there's fog or rain. And he said, we've
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: got the technology. And this was a military guy application.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: He said, it'll shoot through the fog. You'll never have
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: another fogged out picture.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And so that cause you know, like range finders, Yeah,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: they hate the fog.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: Oh, and I hate the fog and the bright. So
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: I have the problem. You're trying to get an animal.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: You know, you might have.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: What fifteen seconds, you're trying to get a range, especially
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: if you're bow hunting, and that sun reflecting and you
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: can't get that to bounce back off that reflection, and
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: you're just like, oh, gosh, I need to know the range.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: But the same and so that technology is out there
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: and it's coming to our industry.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Really well.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: When I think about the history of the history of
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: trail cameras and like the impact the trail cams, and
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I know that in my notes, I know that you've
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: brought it up as well, is that it introduced this
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: whole world of finding.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Out that something existed that you didn't know existed. I mean,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna look like like deer in particular, Okay,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: if you're going.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: To look at like what if you said, like, what's
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: changed everything? It's changed like home security, it's changed everything.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: If you're gonna be like, but let's think of like
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: discreete single things that happened, it would be that it
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: introduced the conversation of I got a buck on camera
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: right that you'd all of a sudden, but it didn't
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: have to be that you had to be present to
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: see it, and all of a sudden people were aware that
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: this stuff.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Is going on that you didn't know was going on.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: I made in my notes when I was coming out.
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: We were flying out and I was looking through the
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: items I saw that y'all want to talk about, and
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: the same deal identified that the one thing I saw
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: the camera do that I think some people might have missed.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: You didn't because you just talked about it. But especially
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: in the Southeast, those big deer out west atoms animals
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: aren't harassed as much as they are in the Southeast.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Our populations are higher, they've been hunted longer, they're harder
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: to have people. And we talked about it when you
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: came down for the Christmas show in Alabama. The level
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: they have a lot of one sixty deer running around here.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: They're not running around the South like that. When we
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: came out with that camera. I can't tell you how
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: many trade shows I went to and i'd have a
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: guy came up and he goes, oh my gosh, we're
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: never going to not use your stuff. Maultree said, you
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: can't imagine this. I got a picture of a one
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: fifty on my property or one forty or whatever size.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: He said, I never have seen it. We've never killed
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: a deer that big.
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: You know what it gave them, and especially for the
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: QDMA side of managing property Steve, it gave them hope.
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: They had no idea those deer were there, but you
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: know what, dogs running them, people hunting them. Those deer
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: go purely nocturnal. They don't get seen. Guess what that
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: camera did. Hey, you're holding a deer this size. Where
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: people had no idea there were deer that size, they
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: finally started, yes, we do have them. That was one
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: of the neatest deals about it. And that was multiple
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: people telling me.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: That, Yeah, that was like, that was an impactful thing
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: to be that And it's kind of like this thing
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: you always run your head. You remember I was talking
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: about so and I are for a fish finders. So
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: it just it just brings up this interesting conversation where
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: what these competing views of looking at this stuff were.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: No doubt, like every piece of technology that comes out,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: there will always be a person that that bemoans the technology. Yes,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: and you always kind of you always look, meaning that
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: they feel that something is dying with with the technology,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: like some skill is lost or some aspect of the
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: experience is dying. I am there's no doubt that the
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: bolt action rifle at the time had its detractors, right,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: those pencil fish finders with that where there's like the
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: piece of lead there no doubt, there's no doubt they
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: have their detractors. But you look and you think of
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: the ways in which the human mind, like the ways
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: in which it changed your understanding of what's going on.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Meaning take sonar fishfinders. You got on a lake, you're
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: never quite clear of the contours of the bottom, of
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: features of the bottom that there's like an old shipwreck
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: down there where fish like the sit the fish sit
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: oftentimes fish or ten feet below the surface. You always
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: visualize fish on the bottom. And so it's like a
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: technology and someone's gonna go like, oh, it's a crotch,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: but you'd also go but I didn't understand the area,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: And now I have all this added understanding of the
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: intricacies of what's going on there, and that makes the
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: experience more valuable. Another example is we have a fish
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: place in Alaska. We fish are all the time. We
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: used to fish off charts, nautical charts that just had
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: no contours. It was the ocean was a blank, okay,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And on that blank was just fathom numbers, no lines
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: between fathom markers, was just fathom numbers interspersed.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: And we were under the belief that in our area.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: We're like, we knew they were to the west of us,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: but we were under the belief that we did not
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: have Lincott.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe not in someone to get a link. We were like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: there's no Lincought around.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Then out came like sophisticated GPS mapping systems with very
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: detailed hydrographical markings, and all of a sudden, then it
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: was like Lincott Bonanza because they like a very specific thing,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: and so your view of the ocean went from being
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: that it was sort of this unknown basin like thing.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: The only experience from the surface to being like, oh right,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: it's like looking at a mountain. Stuff travels the ridges,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: like do you like the bench, And all of a
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: sudden you understood underwater in the same way, and it
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: heightened your appreciation for the ocean, made you more effective,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: but sort of like gave you more info. And that's
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: like a thing about cameras is like you're all of a
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: sudden like, oh, I had no idea, I have a picture.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I have a picture where.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I had no idea they're around, There's a place I
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: hang out. We camped there all the time. I had
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: no idea there around. There's a wolverine that lives there,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: and he comes through now, and then I.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Would not know.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I would not know if you didn't have an that
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: that wolverine comes through there, had I not hung a
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: camera there.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, so is it bad that I know?
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Or is it good that I know? I love knowing
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: that it's there.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: You know, a lot of our stuff, we've worked with
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: different state agencies, state game and fish agencies. There was
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: one of the states that was having to spend too
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: much overtime on their wardens or biologist yeah to check traps,
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: and so we worked with them and put cameras on them.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: If a wolf got in a trap, it would go
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: to the notification would go to the woman or man
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: that was on dispatch. Sure, dispatch should call whoever was
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: on duty. They were able to continue the program because
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: if they were eating up all their money, they had
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: allocated for payroll to do that and it worked great.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: You know, a lot of the states have twenty four
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: hour check pauses. You've got to set a foothole trap
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: and check it within twenty four hours. I like putting
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: a camera on it because you're gonna know within seconds
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: that you have that.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: That's funny because that's something that's not clearly articulated. You'll
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: see regulations that in states that have check laws. I
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: think that you'll see how they term it determine visually inspected.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Like, yes, it's a thing that needs to be clarified. Yes,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: like what inspection looks like.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: But all that, and to what you were saying about
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: fish finders, one of the items right now that's in
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: the marine and fishing industry that's bringing up I'm talking
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: about it. You telling about it, this springs game and
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: fish meetings of all the states.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, livescope, Yeah, we cover it.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: We cover the Live Scope conversation, and it's a classic example.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: It's a classic example of two wildly different views.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: And like, I'm of the age, I guess where I
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: look at live I look at Live Scope. Even though
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I got buddies I fished, I got buddies of fishing,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: just young guys running around this office that they're like,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: they don't want to fish without it. Yes, but I'm like, ah, man,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: You and I are exactly the same page. I don't
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: have one on my boats.
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: I don't fish with livescoat, but I fished with guys
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: that have it, and it's incredibly effective. But I had
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: one of the guys off late Martin down there and
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: the tremendous crappy lights and he said, he said, mister Baltree,
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: he said, I need to talk to you. Said, if
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: y'all don't do something at game and fish about livescoat,
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: he said, there are going to be no crappie left.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: He said, it's that effective. It's heavily being discussed. And again,
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: where's that point.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know, And it's I don't know where the
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: point is. There's a huge age element to it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: There's also there's an age element to it, and there's
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: also like a short memory element to it, meaning why
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: is it so acceptable for me to use a fish finder?
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Right? I'm totally like, I use a fish like when
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I'm out running.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I got a chart, I got a split screen, I
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: got a chart, I toggle between different fish finders used.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: But then for some reason, I feel it's okay to
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: question the validity of a of a one that's a
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: little better, a lot better.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying, like, what about.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: The guy that that when I when fish finders came out?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: What about the guy that's like, that's not fair, he's forgotten.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Now if we constantly reset the clock.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: We are and eight the technology and age and technology
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: has come so fast so far now.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm from the.
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: Group there when we had the big, great, big giant
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: cell phones in that age group, and now you've got them,
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: and if you don't have something operating from your cell phone,
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: so all that's changing. But you know, I think you
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: have to have something that benefits the resource but doesn't
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: abuse the resource.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: I think that's key in that.
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: Now, where's abuse of the resource, That's where the biol
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: is or whoever for each state have to decide. But
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: that's one of the keys to me is does it
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: benefit the resource? And everything had to me when we
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: were in all those years and game and fish, is
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: it database and does it benefit the resource?
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Got it? Yeah, that's where it's got to come from.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Let me let me lay out for you. I'd like
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: to get your opinion on this. Let me leave out
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: if you just we're sitting in the state of Montana
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: right now. So the state of Montana has been we
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: have a great agency. We have a great agency, our
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: fishing game Agency. Like there's some agencies around the country
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: where I think that that hunters, anglers, they become suspicious
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: of their agency. They maybe feel that their agency doesn't
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: have their best interests in mine right. Their agency perhaps
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: like like it's happening in Colorado, like it's happening in Washington.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: The agency can become hijacked by people who are sort
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: of adversarial to a natural resources perspective on fishing game management.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: They're uncomfortable with the idea of people viewing wildlife as
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: a resource right, and so they lose the respect. But like,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: we have a great agency, and I feel that they
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: sort of operate with what I imagine to be generally
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: operate with the best intes of hunters and anglers in mind,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: like that they make they do a good job. They
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: have jumped around on what are we gonna do about
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: trail cameras, what's the appropriate use for trail cameras?
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: What's not? So it changes.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: There's been some changing in direction around two way communications
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: as that's come in right, So where we sit now
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: is we sit that I can I'm a I like
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: a trap. I'm a fur trapper, just recreational hobby fur trapper.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: I saw your show and the deal on stretching cout
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: hides and grading them. It was fantastic, Yeah, fantastic. I'm
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: not doing but that was fantastic.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: All of that stuff, and we're allowed so because it's
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: non so we can't. We can't currently use a what's
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: the best way to describe like a digital but but
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: sends to your Like, what's the best terminology for one
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: that sends to your phone?
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: You'd call it a cellular phone satellite and then we'll
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: have a different word for it. But for what now?
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Is cellular automatic that you don't have to retrieve it yourself.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: So currently cellular which is the current way that it's transmitted.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: So we can't use a cellular camera for hunting game animals.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: You can use a but I can use a cellular
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: camera for whatever.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Like I can put it on a beaver like a
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: crossing and watch otters go by. I use it all
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: the time. I'll put it on a set, right, I'll
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: set a spot waiting for an odd to come through
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: or something. I'll put a camera on and I know
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: exactly what's going on, right, that's permissible. Like, as someone
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: in the trailcam industry and a pioneer in the trail
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: cam industry, how do you think about what goes through
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: your mind when you look at states, particularly in the West,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: making regulations that kind of like that that impact your products,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: impact innovations you work on.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Do you do you do you just?
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Do you sit back and watch it happen? Do you
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: try to be responsive to it? Do you weigh in
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: on it? Like what is your view on It's?
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: And I've got a lifetime of sitting on the hunting
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: and fishing side. I've got forty thirty five years gaming
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: fish side.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, you were in game, you were on
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: the commissioner.
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm on both sides of it.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: And I will tell you when we first started reviewing
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: stuff like that, whether it be go to the most
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: controversial issues, go to that are in almost all the states.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: Go to high fences, go to dog hunting, go to
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: anything that tests the theory of what we just talked about.
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: Where is it the deal?
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: I want to add to that list to maybe we'll
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: talk about it.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that right now the hot one is
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: going to be drones. Is drones that will remain drunk.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: I'm asking because I've got a lot of I've got
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: a lot of thoughts on that. But you have to
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: set the bar. And again, the job is to protect
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: the resource. I don't care what anybody else say.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: That's the job.
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: And so how do you equate if something that's good
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: or bad with it? I always kind of defined it
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: as does the animal have a fair chance of escape?
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: You look at almost any issue, does that animal have
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: a fair chance of escape? Let's say there's a water
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: hole in Montana that there's no water for one hundred
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: miles and there's eighty cameras on it that We've heard
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: these stories about that, and everybody's finding the exact times
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: they come. Does that animal have a fair chance to escape?
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: Probably not?
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: I agree with that. If I was on that commission,
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: I'd vote absolutely not. God, if I'm using it to
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: find out research to know if we've got the correct
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: age class of almost everybody's managing by age class now
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: deer and elk and everything else hurts.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Am I managing it? Right? Do I see two year olds?
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: Three year old? Four year olds? Do you have the
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: bell curve for that? Yeah, that's using it responsibly. So
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: there's a line in there. But I always too that.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: So GM makes automobiles, somebody's mad and got road rage
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: and runs somebody down. Is that using that responsibly? That
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: was that intended to be used for that. There's a
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: lot of things product gets used for that's not intended.
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: So let's go back to does the animal have a
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: fair chance? First gape? That's kind of a good place
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: to start.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: The one thing I learned that I didn't know about it.
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: I was not I'd never been in politics, full of politics,
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: done anything in politics. Do not mistake And that's in
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: every phase of even game and fish where it shouldn't be.
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: It used to make me mad. I man, this is
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: game and fish. We've got to make sure the resources protected.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: And you see a group come in and I always
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: call them political footballs that drone, that camera, that whatever. Hey,
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: they've got five other issues that they've promised their membership
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: that they want to try to get pushed through. Let's
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: pick up a political football and play. We don't care
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: if we lose or gain that. But if we do
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: that and attached to the legislation and this other, we
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: may can approve this. If you look what gets to
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: attach to legislation versus what the legislation was intended for.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: That's the way that stuff slips in. So and I
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: guess this is bad to say, but I'd warn everybody
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: who's watching issues, watch out for what's being slipped in
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: and watch out for what's being attached. They may not
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: they may seem like they may seem like they're more
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: worried about your drone issue than anybody, when in reality
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: they know it's going to come and go attack. It's
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: a political football, So that has to be looked at. Now,
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: all that mixed up is going to make a cake
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: somewhere down the road, but it has to go through
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: all that I used to always save somebody bring us
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: an issue to Game and Fish that needed to be
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: voted on by the advisory board, And somebody told it
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: to me early on.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: But it's true.
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: You push one cork under the water, four more pop
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: back up, and I don't care what the issue. It
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: may seem like the greatest idea that's ever been You
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: voted in, like it, not.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: Gonna like it?
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah every time.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, it doesn't matter if you're helping the little old
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: ladies across the street, somebody's gonna say, oh, I don't
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I understand it.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know on that point, how did you
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: wind up be in?
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: How did you want to?
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: What is the process of being a game commissioner? How
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: did that happen for you?
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: The I had always been interested in it. We had
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: just done our partnership with Ebscoe and the Ebbsco goes
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: to the largest privately hell company in the state of Alabama.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: They were very backing in that they wanted people to
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: be involved in their industries. And Governor Riley was just
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: coming in and running for he was a US congressman
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: coming in going to run for the governor Alabama, and
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: he said he said, would you be interested in chairing
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: our game and fish And I said, absolutely I would.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: But again, these are six year term appointments in our state,
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: and they're different in different states, but ours are six
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: year terms on that chair position, and I said I'd
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: love to. I got with them and I said, hey,
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: this is going to take a lot of time. And
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: these our non paid position. These are total volunteer positions.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: Number one requested in the state Alabama, number one requested appointment.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Is that appointment even more than the judge even more
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: than the judgeships. Huh so, oh yeah, And you've been
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: down to Alabama.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Because people have been people been hunting, fishing their whole lives,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and they want to get in their state. They want
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: to get in there and make some change.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: Three things matter in Alabama.
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: It'll get somebody elected, the governor not and of course
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: religion is always one of them. But hunting, fishing, and
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: college football in our country and that changes different. You
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: better be in lyne on those or you're gonna lose
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: a lot of boats. But and so he Governor Raley
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: was generous enough to consider me. We had backing from
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: a lot of people saying, hey, I think they do
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: a good job. I felt qualified for it. I've been
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: all over to every state and nearby in the United States.
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: Hunting had been involved in one of the neatest deals
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: about evolving the feeders and cameras and all the other
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: saundry of products we did. People would say, Steve Nna
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: would call and say, hey, fly out here to my ranch.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: Let me show you how we're gonna be using this.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: And everybody, all these ranches we got to go visit.
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: Everybody's got good ideas. Nobody has the lock on all
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: the good ideas, and so the secret is to go
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: take some of those good ideas and bring them back
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: and combine them all in game management to get to
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: be a total game management company like Moultrie has.
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: That's where that came from. I didn't come up with
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: all those ideas.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: There's no way all that from going in traveling doing.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: So we did that and we I remember the very
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: first day Barnett Lawley was our commissioner, and it was
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: commissioner and governor and I would work very close together.
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: And Governor Riley told me, he said, look, in this deal,
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: I know y'all han't been in the political circle. He
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: said just remember this, do the right thing. I got
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: you back and I thought.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: This is great. That was a direction.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is great. I do that. I always try
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: to do that.
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: Guy, boy, you have no idea how many skeletons in
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: the closet with knives coming out to cut you throat
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: you know when you when you messed with their little sandbox,
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: it's different. So there's a lot to be done with that.
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: That that probably the biggest deal we did.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: Know when when you say when you mess through sadbikes,
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: you mean like different user groups like dog Hunters are
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I don't want I don't want to say I don't
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: want to degrade any thing and say like, well, not
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: even them.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: It's clique, it's it's beyond. There's there's like so you
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: got guys that like to whatever.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: You got guys like the set line Catfish, and then
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: the minute you poke into their world, oh they're.
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: You know, Oh you knock at Hornet's nest out of
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: the tree. And one of the biggest items we did,
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: and it needed and I was happy to see it
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: be one of the very first items. And I don't
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: know if you remember this. I remember you told me
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: you'd been to Alabama. Some our quality of deer had
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: eroded to almost nothing. You could kill legally in the
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: state Alabama one hundred and seventeen bucks per year. Now
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: what that resulted in you it was hard to get
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: good numbers. I worked closely with doctor Ditschkoff at Auburn
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: University and their deer labs and all that, and we
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: would get good data input from all the different people
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: that we could find that were professionals or experts in
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: that group. The best we could figure was that eighty
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: five percent of the deer killed bucks killed in the
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: state of Alabama at that time.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: We're a year and a half hour.
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: Our Braill curve was out of white by totally because
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: and the viewpoint back then was people would go and
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: they'd see a full point and I think Colorado's going
• 55:31
  Speaker 4: through this same to do with their mule deer right now.
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: But they'd see and they'd think, I almost shoot it today,
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: I'll kill the big one tomorrow.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: Guess what there are no biginess.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was.
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: Very very few in the Bell curve of the age
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: class that would hit the much what people perceive is
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: mature now five and a half, six and a half.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: Almost none We go in we start to change that.
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: If as a group of people in a state, if
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: somebody has given them for the last forty or fifty
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: years that Alabama had, you can hunt every day of
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: the season. You can kill one hundred and seventeen bucks
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: a year, and all of a sudden, we're going to say, now,
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: you know what, we'd probably would like to change that
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: to one or two. You think there was any pushback, Oh,
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: it was unbelievable that the we had the database and
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: I was looking at quote.
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: People hanging, oh beyond hanging, I.
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: Was looking at what Kentucky had gone, and what happened
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: in Kansas, and factual things that happened in states, and
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: what how Kentucky had improved their herd. Then you could
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: go to the state of whoever that whichever commissioner, and
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: you could say, hey, I think I could up our
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: tourism in our state if we had a better state
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: for viable trophy deer. So there was different areas you
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: had to reach to to get them backing. You also
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: got it. But I had settled on, too's where I
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: thought that should be. And the groups and the people
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: that we had working on at.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: Like lowering the annual limit from one hundred and twenty
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: seventeen now.
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: So so we're sitting up, we're over the game and
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: fish building and Commissioner Lolly call, he said, military, come on.
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: Governor wants to serve the state House and sees he
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: wants to talk to us, And I'm thinking, oh, great,
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: no telling what this is, but I knew.
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: What I thought it was.
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: We go in and go to Raleigh's big Alabama guy
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: and he had a football he was pitching. He was
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: sitting at his desk pitching it up and down. He
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: pitches it to me when I walk in. He goes, here,
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: y'all are fishing and change our dear limit And I
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: said yes, sir. He said, what do you think it's
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: going to be? And I said, well, we're looking at
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: and all this is database. We've got data out to Gazain,
• 57:52
  Speaker 4: but probably too deer. And I see him look down
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: and he looks up and says, and he's such a
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: great Yeah. He goes, do you know what y'all are
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: doing to me politically changing the deal limit from my
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: seventeen to two? And I said, well, it's all data driven.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: It makes us a better state, it makes the deer
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: heard better, everything about it's going to be better if
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: we get from over a utilization of the resource to
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: what can be managed for a reoccurring base on the resource.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: And he said he listened to the whole spill and
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: he said, you know what, that's good.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: But I've got to have three. And I thought, I thought,
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: I'm a hole my ground.
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: I thought, I did not you know, I really wanted
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: to do I went to other way. I said, I
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: really wanted to see it go to one. And yeah, yeah,
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: said he said, no, no, three. That's why today and
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: this is all was discussed that afternoons office. That's why
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: today in Alabama you kill two bucks per year of
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: your choice. One deer has to have more than four
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: points off one ving. That was because where we were
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: and I said, look, let's do this, let's and that's
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: how we got to the to the deer that had
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: to have a little more requirement for it. But since
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: that time, here's the coolest deal. The research that came
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: out of Auburn and the universities and the biologists that
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: were studying when we passed that. Steve Steve, I remember
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: growing up there's people never hadn't seen him mature deer
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: in Alabama. And they thought through the studies that we
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: will say fifty thousand bucks a year's life by passing
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: that legislation. How long does it take to refill that curve?
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: And you're talking about that whole group that was against you.
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: And they go out and they see deer now that
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: they've never seen books. We're putting book. Deer in the
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: book that's never that never happened in Alabama. This deer
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: regularly kill one sixties, one seventies, one eighties. Now in Alabama,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: that's changed because it's got a healthy bell curve. Now
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: those people are behind itlly, we know we won't change this.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Isn't it funny?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Remember how about short memories like people and wild they
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: fair short memories. Imagine if now a commissioner came in
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: and he said, I'm thinking about bumping the deer limit
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: to one hundred and seventeen.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: People, you know what I mean? The same people would
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: lose their mind. That would have lost their mind when
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: you went you know what I'm saying. But people get
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: used to the thing normal. But I want to tell
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you my kind of main Alabama hunting story from years
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: ago was it has lots to do with four keys.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: So my brother Danny, he was starting aquatic entomology. He's
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: a fisheries biologist, so he was he did is.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: He went to graduate school Auburn, and he grew up
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: in Michigan, which is a one buck state. I mean,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: you get excited if you draw dough tag in Michigan,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: one buck state. I when he was down there at Auburn,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: I was in Montana. Montana remains a one buck state.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: It wasn't one buck state then. And he moves down
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: to Auburn and he's shooting all these deer. Man, He's like,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I killed five bucks.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Like hell, he goes, you killed deer a day.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: So four of us, well, three of us, three of buddies, right,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: we go down to hunt.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: We go down to Auburn and hunt.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's between Christmas and New Year's and we
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: just go out in the Tuski National Forest. I mean
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: just wander out into the woods, dude, and set up
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: on trails. And I remember hanging a tree standing in
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: a Magnolian thing. That was the weirdest thing in the world,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: you know. And so like one day, the next day,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: the next day, the next day, we all got bucks,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: and I thought it was the greatest thing in the world.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: But my buck. I always like tell the story when
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I cut the cap, When I cut the skull cap
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: off my buck and trimmed it down, I flew home
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: with it.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: This is not a joke. I flew home with it
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: in my shirt pocket. It had two little devil horns
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: and him that bone played up and I was carrying
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: her out in my pocket. But it was just he
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: was killing you. He was killing a lot of bucks.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: But it's just all just dinky little bucks.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: Imagine.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: But we still, I mean not to discredit that now,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: I still had the time of our life.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, and that same deal there was a
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 4: lot of don't think there was a lot of people
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: that was enjoying that.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: But we only killed. We only killed, but just to
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: be clear, we only got one one each. But it
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: was just like I blew my mind. After living in
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: the North, it blew my mind that would be such
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: a thing, is that that you could just kill a
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: deer a day.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: And one of the most controversial areas in those first
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: years of going in was the dog deer honey. Okay,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: because it had been so and and this is exactly
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: like the drone issue, where do you draw the line
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: if somebody wants to use a drone for animal recovery,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: somebody who wants to use a dog for animal recovery.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: Are the people that abuse that is their dog deer honting.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: Our state allows dog deer honey. It is an old,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: hundreds of years old tradition in the Southeast for dog
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: deer hunts. One of the most expensive lodges to join.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: That's probably over a half million a year to get
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 4: in this place. They do dog deer hunts and it's
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 4: well received. But all that ties back to of what
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: you were talking about at the drone You get a
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: guy if Steve Vanilla, and it's different out west. There's
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: a lot of federal property in Texas, Alabama, some of
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: the southern states is probably ninety eight ninety nine percent
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: private property. So if Steve Vanilla spends a half million
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: dollars a year developing his property, would it be legal
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: or would it be responsible for somebody to build at
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: least twenty acres next to you and release twenty dogs
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: every weekend that they know they're going off their twenty
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: acres and go on to your deal. So all the
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: states have had to fight that. I want to talk
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: about dog. I'd love to talk about I don't have familiarity.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 4: I want to talk about drones and I want to
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: talk about dogs.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: With the fundament difference between drones and dogs as ones
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: like a historical that is a traditional use practice.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: It's the same deal where that's the story that gets growing.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: Brought and that's what you hear, like, I'm totally unfamiliar.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I've never hunted deer. I've hunted a lot of stuff
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: behind dogs. I've never hunted deer behind in front of dogs.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: But that's one of those issues and i'd love to
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: hear your perspective on it is. It's one of those
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: issues where people point to it's not what's okay, it's
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: what it's what is naturally going to come from that
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: meaning meaning you doing dogs on your property is one thing,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: but it becomes that it just doesn't work for you
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: to keep them off your neighbor's property. And so when
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: you when people criticize it, they're not criticizing the act.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Some people are, but generally they're not criticizing the act
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: in and of itself. They're criticizing what they know will come.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: With it, and I used to in the early dog
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: day arguments go back to the resource again, and I
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: came up with it one of the meetings. I said,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: and the people always bring in the ethics. Do you
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: think is it ethical to have that camera on that
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: waterhole with eighties deal? Is it ethical to do this
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: or that? I would ask the question in the meeting, Steve,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: is it more ethical to push a deer or to.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: Pull a deer?
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying, sir.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: If I'm on planning of green field and I'm bringing
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: them to me, a guy's got an argument, Well, that's unnatural.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: They're not green fields naturally for Denner, and they're gonna come.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: So you're pulling them with that dog. You're pushing them, Yeah,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: you're driving them.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course that's this line.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Is that That's why I don't want to stray at
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: you farsto. There's a concept, there's a concept that's interesting
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: in these discussions, and I can't I wish I could
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: remember the name of the guy that.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: I first heard it, but who brought it up.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: But the argument would be, stop calling it, stop talking
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: about fair chase. Okay, I'm sympathetic to this viewpoint, it's
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: got problems. But talking about fair chase has problems because
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: you're like, is it fair, Like I said, is it
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: more fair to create an environment they like?
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: Or is it more fair to have a thing that
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: like repels them and you presume them.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: But like this guy proposed, let's start talking about fair share.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: And we look at we have a we have we're
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: dealing in wildlife management, fisheries management. We're dealing out of
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: finite resource. It's just there's numbers to it. There are
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: x numbers of hell of it, there are x numbers
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: of crappy, there are x numbers of deer. Right, there's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: a finite resource. What is an individual's share? And within
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: that meaning also what is your impact on the share?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: And it's just it's it's a it's like a it's
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: a concept that I think is worth thinking about because
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: it's like, like, what is your what impact are your
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: activities having on the share? And you could look in
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: this in this viewpoint, you could look at a land
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: manager who's doing habitat work, putting in food plots, leaving
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: quail habitat whatever, doing improvements, okay, putting in nest boxes
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: and wrapping them and wrapping the tree in sheet metal. Okay,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: it's like, this dude is growing the share. So if
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: we're talking about fair share, it changes the dynamic.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: If he's also got a camera out, does that mean
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: he's like is he is he negatively impacting the share?
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: But if you have but if you have, if you
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: have a use practice that is hazing animals off good habitat,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: you know, having having like, you know, negative impacts on
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: neighboring hunters, impacting their ability to get their share. Like,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: maybe that's a better way of talking about this whole thing.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying I advocate one over the other,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: but it's just an interesting perspective.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: It's very controversial and there's always a difference of opinions.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 4: When we were researching, I tried to get everybody. You know,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: how you own the argument, and you know this from
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: being an author. If you own the research, you owned
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: the argument, you know more about it.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: You've got it.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: I pulled every state's legislation on dog hunting whatnot. During
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: those days. Texas defined THEIRS and some of the research
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: I had pulled, they had defined that they thought it
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: took ten thousand acres to run dogs. So they go
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 4: in and say, Okay, if you own more than this,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: then you could run that amount of dogs.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: Is that because it is at least plausible for you
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: to do it.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, don't worry.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: I had one of the senators come up and he said, look,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: I'm with you all on what your beliefs are. He said,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: but every person that puts me in office has the
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: most popular size track in state Alabama is forty forty
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: acres in under you're gonna hold You're gonna hold a
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: pack of walker hounds on forty forty acres.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: That'll keep it.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: You're gone.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: So all that has to be and find the correct
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 4: is there? There are ways and that it will work.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: And the other deal that I probably said more at
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: any meeting both grew. I mean, people are the fisticuffs
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: in this deal. Steve and I would say, you know
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: what we gotta learn, guys, And it's just a thousand
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 4: people in the audience. We got we gotta learn to
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: be good neighbors. Yet, let's remember that. Yeah, and because
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 4: you're always going to join somebody and just because you
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: like bow hunting, they may be avid gun hunter.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got to be good neighbors. Everybody has their
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: their way to do.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I got a buddy that hates the coyote dog guys.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what's so bad about that? What's bad about it?
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: As I can't be in my tree with all the talk.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Come to my place because it's not the thing. It's
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: like to stop. Don't hunt my plates. I used to
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: when I'm hunting my place.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: Hunter's hating hunting may not be their deal. You know,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: I never got it. I kept thinking, we're going to
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: pass some bow hunting legislation. And when we passed crossboats,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: everybody that gets older have bad shoulders. They get doctors
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: excuse to get crossbows, and the bow hunters call it
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: ex bos. At that time, you know, for crossboats and
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: when they were illegal before we passed them to be
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: hunted with responsibly. I had a guy that worked for
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: me and it never clicked with me. And he said,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 4: I hear y'all going to pass some cross bowl legislation.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: I said possibly, I said, depends what the board's viewpoint,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: what items get brought up. I said, but it's a possibility.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: He said, they may be that they'll never be true
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: bow hunters. It hit me then that's an ego deal.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: That's a group that they wear that badge of honor.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: By golly, I'm a bow hunter.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: And I told him, I said, look, you better know this.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: At that time, said less than seven percent of the
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: people in the United States hunt. I said, it's going down.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: It went down to about three and a half percent.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: I said, you better embrace every person there is that
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: will hunt with a bow, no matter if you like
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: the type bow or whatnot, so we can get those
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: user numbers back up. Thank goodness, that's been turned around
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 4: and brought back the other way a little bit. But
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 4: that in our sport, especially Steve, it's a little bitty sport.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: Everybody knows everybody, and everybody knows, Hey, I'm hunting White
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: Mountain this weekend, and you know he's at the best
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: place of the best. It's a small sport. Better be
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: good neighbors. Yeah, better get along. And that that's what
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: was driving that. It's their group. They're proud of it.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: But I mean, like like ninety percent of it is
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: just in good humor. But there is like a tribalism
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: and we like all around our office, like we engage
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: in all the time. It's like, you know what that's
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: kind of like basically, it's like what you're into is dumb.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: See, this is like the general joke, you know.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: I mean it's absolutely gospel truth. We got in and
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you met them down there. It's
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: a popular national radio show, Rick and Bubba, Yeah, nationwide.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: We did that show. We had every two weeks of
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: Savement on. We did the Outdoor seven for twenty something years.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: We got into one of the guys, Bubba on that
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: deal had said and they had three million estimated audience,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: and so we were going all the you know, there
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 4: wasn't that many an Anchorage, Alaska listening, but they still
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 4: listened to Anchorage last and that he said, Hey, I
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: saw a black panther this weekend. He said, what do
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 4: you think about that? And I said, I don't think
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: you saw a black panther. He said, oh I did, absolutely.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: This is what started this whole deal. Oh idea, I said, no,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: I said, there's there's first, there's no melanistic phase of panther.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: I said, Secondly, there's no greeting population. There's the closest
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: panther to us as Florida panthers. There's not but aestimated
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 4: to hundred and heard they estimate how many get there's
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: twenty get killed a year. Ten percent the herd is
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: at two hundred. I said, they travel sometimes come up.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 4: There's no way. First, there's no such thing as a
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: black panther. Were you talking about kicking over an ant bed?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: This still goes. It comes number one savement on the show,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: number one. Every week. The phones are letting you can't
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: get a spot on the phone line, and so we
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: start picking at him. I bring in the top of
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: gaming fish guys, the top research biologists, and every one
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: of them said, there's no way on it. And people
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 4: calling in those teve Hey, I don't appreciate it at all.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: What y'all are saying about this.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 4: I'm at a wedding a buddy of mine's getting married,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: and I have a guy coming up. There's probably three
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: hundred people at the wedding. Steave, this is how it
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: gets and so all this I bring this back when
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: I tell you the story to all this has to
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: be taken in when honeying and fishing laws and rules
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: are made. And he comes up and shoves my shoulder,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: and he said, I tell you, I don't like it.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: I go.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: Walking about. He goes about the black panthers. I said,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: what are you What are you at this guy's wedding?
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: I said, what are you talking about?
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: He said?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: He said, y'all making fun of that. I said, what
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: I said, have you seen trying to figure out now
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: where he's coming from? He said, you think my mama
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: and my great Pampaul would have lied to me about
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: sick They told me they saw him all the time.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: You're calling my family liars And I said, well, the research.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: They don't want to hear that. They don't want to
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: hear any of that. They don't they've been told that
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: story that's been there the entire time. You're gonna you
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: never ever in a million years, will change their mindset
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: of what is there or what wasn't there. I know
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: it's y'all at game and fish. Y'all don't want all
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: the hunters in the state and know there's black panthers
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: out there. They just, oh, we keep really close to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: every investigation goes that comes back from You're not gonna change.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: And we make a hat that's got a black panther
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: on it just says believer on it for all those
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: black panther believers out there. But you know what's funny
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: about this, Like this conversation in trail cams too, though,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: is like the Bigfoot people where the book You're like,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't put black panther people in big
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: They're different buckets. There's like black panther people are like
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: people of the woods. Bigfoot people are kind of like
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: there's like a real kind of hippie element to big
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: Foot people, and there's like a backwoods quality do a
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: black panther guy. There's like different kind of guys.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: But when you say to the bigfoot guys, where's all
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: the trail cam pictures of bigfoots?
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: They got, Oh, they can detect them. They're in another
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: dimension and trail cameras can't capture that dimension that Bigfoot's living.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: But everybody's gonna find a way. They found some way
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: to get aunt.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: They when when the black panther arguments there, and I said,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: let me, I can define that for you immediately and
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 4: have absolute evidence that there's not. One of the largest
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: sports down South is raccoon hunting at night with dogs
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: exactly you you cat hunting, cat hunted all over exactly
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: the same dog you hunt raccoons with that, you hunt lines.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: Why why in the last thirty years have we never
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: treated a line?
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: Oh that's different.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: Wait wait a minute, where is that different?
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: What we're talking.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: About they discounted.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: But so all that when you were asking that first
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 4: deal of it with the game and fish and how
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: we operate and all that, all that's got to be
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: taken into account. Yeah, because you you got to make
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: public hacking, you gotta guard resource all that. So all
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: that ties back in. But that I'm glad you saw
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: some of that that has gone on too.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love but I love that stuff.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want I want to ask you something and uh,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: it's fair to call you a technologist. I mean you're
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: a technologist in some respect. Give me your take on
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: like give me your take on drones. Like because let
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: me just to set that up for listeners a little bit.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: Is when drones, like very early in the drone thing,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: like right when it became that you could get a drone.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: I remember, I think it was one year. I might
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: be off by a state or two, but it was
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: within a twelve month window that thirteen states came out
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: and just very clearly, very early said that drones are
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: not allowed in big game hunting applications. They all defined
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: it in their own way, but basically it was like,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: couldn't use drones for big game honey. Then there came
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: a question, what about retrieval?
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, so imagine you go out, you know, you go
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: out at dusk, you hit a deer, you can't find blood,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: it's real thick. Well, just like, how great would it
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: be while that thing's still holding some body heat to
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: put up a drone with thermal fly it over the
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: you know, fly it over some crazy briar patch and
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: there's a little heat spot and boom, Like who wouldn't
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: want a guy to get to recover their deer?
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: What's ethical on recovery?
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so it be like yeah, man, like once
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: the deer's wounded, it should be all in everybody, Like
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: if you can get it, get it. I don't care
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: if you like an act of God, like get the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: deer and get it. So but then people would be like,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: but what how do you unsee when you're doing that?
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: How do you unsee what you see? Where you're like,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: oh that's for that big bug, bet where that's where he's.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: And if he's betted there tonight in the morning. I
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: know he's definitely going to go north out of there
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: and right, and so then you don't unsee it. I
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: had a sim just just to further paint that picture
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: for you. I had a similar thing, like, we're allowed,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: We're allowed to. We can thermal hunt for coyotes. There's
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: no off time. I remember one time deering deer season,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: my buddy are out thermal hunting coyotes at night and
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing box there and I'm I'm like, is this
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: supposed to you know what I mean? Do I unsee that?
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: That's right?
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: You know, we weren't actively dear anybody's like, but I
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: could just say like, oh no, I'm hunting colouts.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Yep, but I can't unsee what I saw. I was
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: seeing bucks that I would not know they were there. Okay,
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: So as I I'm just setting this all up to say, like,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: ask someone who deals in emerging technologies employees emerging technologies
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: has been in the seat of needing to give legal
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: guidance on emerging technologies.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Like give me your drone spiel? Right you ready?
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the question has been solved for years. Okay,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: you know who has a question to me, this is
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 4: kind of where I think that the drone there needs
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 4: to go. I'm not gonna tell you the answer yet.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: I had a call from a guy several years ago.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: He said, hey, he said, what should I do? I
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 4: need to the game warning, the need to call what.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: I've got a drone on my green field and it's
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: come up to looking in the window of my shooting house.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: And I said, do you know whose it is not?
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 4: This is just the drone. He's got the drone. It's
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: not his drone, not his people come to find out
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 4: it was a neighbor's drone.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 4: That neighbor was flying his green fields, pushing the deer
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: off his gron. No, I'm telling you straight his rope,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: so that that goes on. You You have drones, Hey,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 4: let's see what he's doing over here. And they fly
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: in unencumbered space, whether it's their property or not their property,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 4: and I think there's some legal aspirations to airspace and
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: what goes on.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: Here's what I think.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: My wife walked out there this she was she was
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: come running in the house. We still know who, will
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: never find out who was. Someone had one about.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: Our house, Yes, said they want to see Stevens. I said.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: Then by the time I got out there, he was gone.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 4: You know when I want my buddy, the director of
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: game fish, I said, Hey, here's what's going on this track.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: He goes, does he have a clear shot? Tell him
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 4: put it on the ground in the drunk and let
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: we'll find out whose it is. But here's why I
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: think a good answer may lay Steve Is and you
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: and I in our very first meeting, talked about both
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: of us were sucked into Alaska all those times. Let
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 4: me tell you fly. Let's look at flying shoot laws
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: in Alaska. You fly, you don't hunt for twenty four
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: hours afterwards. You fly that drunk, You don't hunt for
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: twenty four hours afterwards. You are somebody who's in control
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 4: of that information of that drun. Go back to the
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 4: truism of what defines ethics. Does the animal have a
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: reasonable chance for escape? Yeah, you got twenty four hours
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 4: separated that Animaloman moved on.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, say it was flying. Yeah, saves flying place again.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: Do you unsee that?
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 4: But does that give it When you fly a floatplane
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: into camp and you see through bulletmoose in a bottom,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: you didn't choose the way that pilot of that that
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 4: floatplane did Yeah, y'all land ten miles from there, y'all
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: HiPE back?
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: Did did you do that?
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: Did you unsee that?
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: Did you know moose were in the bottle?
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 4: They're going to be in those bottoms every time you
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: go in there. So that's a great place.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Happen many times literally been in the situation. As you're
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: flying in on a normal route and you're coming you're like,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: oh my god, a bull.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's oh, that's it's like a bull.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Or look at that barrel that kill or what you
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: can say, what you want to say, No, guy is
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: going to be well, let's pretend that bull's not there
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: so much wait our day. But when I wait my day,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: I know that that bull.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: So I would believe if we protect the resource with
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 4: the drums, careful with the legislation, and make it as
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 4: a drone usable to recover an animal that's been shot,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: I'm a thousand percent behind that. Is that legal to
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: push animals off somebody else's property.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not legal with that. Let's protect people's rights, let's
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: be good neighbors unless you use it ethically. But go
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: back to the fly and shoot, you have that drone
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: up a quick place to land on that until you
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: could define legislation you fly that drone, you don't have
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: twenty four hours, Yeah, exactly like Alaska's flying shoot.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I wish there was a way.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: And I don't even know the ramifications of this because
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: it's like a huge legal conundrum and you wouldn't you
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to answer it any better than probably
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: anybody in the country because it's totally novel ground was
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: I wish there was a way that it would be
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: you can fly at above ground, that you have permission
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: to flight above Yeah, But that brings in because this
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: is FAA stuff, all right, So that brings in this
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: huge thing of like manned and unmanned because of course
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: you can't say to a plane that you can't fly
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: overland you don't own. So how do you come in
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: and say with a drone like you can fly drone overland,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: do you have permission to fly over like we're That
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: to me would be so simple and easy, but impossible.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: Probably that gets stand.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: I'm sure there'll be court cases and whatnot that helps
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 4: to find that of what can be legal and not
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 4: legal on that And but I agree with you. That's
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 4: that's kicking over a huge ant hill. But again, it
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 4: is what you're doing ethical helping you. Does that give
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 4: you a better edge over killing that animal than it
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 4: is ethically bound for you to take that animal?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: Hey, just switching on that spotlight at night off the
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 4: side of the road when there's eight mule deer down
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: the road here and the guy that kills that, yeah,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: he violated those animals rights of fair chase. Does the
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: guy that see them in his headlights going home and
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 4: goes back the next day because he knows those deer
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: in that field?
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 4: I don't see anything wrong with seeing them, but usually
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 4: it to take that animal and another.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: Way that's not right. Absolutely not.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: Let me let me ask you this one, and I'm
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: not and this is a promise to listeners. I'm gonna
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: ask you a question. I'm not even gonna bore you
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: with what I think about the whole thing. Right, where
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: do you sit right now? What you take on CWD, Like,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: where do you sit right now?
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: You know that was in the infasy of that being
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 4: followed when we were in office, And first you've got
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: to believe at first, I'm going to tell you. I'm
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 4: a believer CWD can be a political football, and I'm
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 4: talking about from the federal all the way down to
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 4: the state to the individual user groups. Do you believe
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 4: starting out? And you're probably a lot more up to
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 4: date on it than I am, even though I followed
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 4: it pretty good. There's there's a point for our industry
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 4: that I'm gonna bring up in a second with you
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 4: that has to be looked at if you're in our industry.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 4: But do you think d CWD was started at a
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 4: at a sheep pen in Colorado where they put mule
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 4: deery in after known Scrapy's sheep had been in that pen?
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: Is that what started?
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: I don't believe.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: So that's what gets the wrap of starting.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: I believe it was identified there. I honestly I followed
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: this closely, like I don't know where, I don't know
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: where it came from, and I and and but.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: That that gets that's kind of where everybody goes back
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: to where it starts. And if you look at the
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 4: map of from how CWD spread, that looks like, Okay,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying I believe or nothing that that sure. Again,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: I watch for political.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: I want to hear people's takes, So you just get out.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm not going to do the whole
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: deal where I give my take.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: Okay, but I want I want your take on one
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 3: part of over ten.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 4: So if you look, you got mad cat disease, you
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 4: got crutch filled jackson in humans, you got scrapies in sheep,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 4: you got one of people.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: When you used to hear.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: About moose having circling disease and they talk about short,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 4: that's CWD. Okay, do you believe CWD is naturally occurring
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: or do was that? Did that come from something like
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: the Colorado Deal? That that that's a question that has
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 4: to be decided.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Do you asked me that question? This is one of
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: the things, this is this is one of the things
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: I wish I knew most, And it would be there's
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: no way. Well I shouldn't say there's no way.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: It feels to me improbable that they actually found the
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: first case, Like, what are the odds that you found
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: the first case? So it was identified on a captive
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: deer in Colorado? Was identified? Did they find the first one?
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: Right, because just one are the eyes? They found the
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: first one? If you if I could have one of
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: the many questions about CWD as I wish there was
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: some way.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: That you could go into museum collections of any servants,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: any North American servants from museum collections, and you can
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: go back to like archaic period, whatever, early modern, and
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: you could go in and take all these servid bones.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: And if there was some way to definitively now the
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: technology I don't believe is there, but there's some way
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: to go in and say, we've checked all these bones
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: and all these museum collections, it's not there, Like it's
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: not there. We've checked thousands of bones, it wasn't there,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: and someone could definitively say that it would change how
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: I view it where I'm sitting if I had to
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: do I always like to play this game. Like you
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: you're asked a question by an omniscient being. You're asked
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: a question by like a godlike being who knows the truth,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: and there's no bullshit. It's just you got to answer
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: the question. And they're like, has it always has it
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: been here for hundreds of years or has it been
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: here for decades where I'm sitting right now. If I
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: really had to get it right right die, Okay, yeah,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: I would go I don't like it that you're putting
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: me in this position. But I'm going to go with
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: hundreds of years. Yeah, that's what I would say. But
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: and then I'd be like, am I right?
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 4: So that's in that That's one of the questions. I
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: think that needs to be studied an answered.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: It changes everything.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 4: It changes everything. Now, let's go back to our industry
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: that we love, the hunting and fishing. I don't care
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 4: if you're a bird watcher. I don't care if you're
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 4: a deer, I don't care if you're a wildlife watcher
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 4: that would never shoot an animal if you had to.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 4: You have equity in that the deer, healthy, the moose
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: or healthy, any servant is healthy. Okay, So the nuclear
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 4: bomb that destroys what we and any nature person loves.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: You know what I view that is, do I know
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: the new lear bombs?
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 4: The nuclear bomb is if if if hunters kill servatives
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: that transfer to humans, that it's proven that that and
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: that ends that game.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: That's the nuclear bomb for us.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think that that. I think that that.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: That moment should it come, and I don't think again,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: if I was in a situation, I don't think it's
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: coming all right, I don't know.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: I'm a guy sitting.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 4: Here, you or I with information to the public that
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 4: there will be a million people listen to your stuff.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 4: I can't tell them to If I thought it was coming,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 4: then I'm wrong and telling them and leading them to
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 4: something dangerous.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: I don't see it coming either.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't think. I don't make it. I
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: dread that, I would dread that it came. And I
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: think that the minute the hunting public, the wildly viewing public,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: the wildlife managers, the minute a deer is no longer
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: a symbol of wildness and natural beauty and natural heritage,
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: and the deer is a symbol of like a deadly
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: disease factor which is already happening with tics a little bit.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: But then it would be like a carrier of of
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: you know, this terrible dementia early death, you know, Alzheimer's
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: similarity type catastrophe, right, and and the deer is saddled
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, that changes deer hunting in America completely, completely.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: Everything changed.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: But but again, if I had to sit here and guess,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: and like as someone that follows the news and follows
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: the science, if I was forced into making a guess
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's coming.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 4: And we had something not on that level that And
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 4: I've told a lot of people about this in the
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 4: game and fish meaning we're with the Department of Agriculture
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 4: people and been a lot of cases. We studied wild
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 4: hogs and one of the detriments to landowners and hunting people,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 4: it's the hog populations, billions and billions of dollars in
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 4: damage every year. Everybody's coming up with the way they
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 4: think they control pigs. I don't think that since the
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 4: Spaniards let them out in the fifteen hundreds, I don't
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 4: think there's a way to control pigs because you can't
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 4: get ahead off I'm breeding that I see stick. It's
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: going to be extremely hard to do it. But we
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 4: were sitting in that meeting and they said, hey, we
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 4: tested our this is Alabama's wildhog population. They tested and
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 4: they said in ninety five, ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight,
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 4: and ninety nine, one hundred percent of the hogs killed
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 4: tested positive for bruce losis. So we're sitting in an
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 4: aial wildlife and an ag and I said, well, I've
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: been around this all my life. I said, tell me
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 4: about bruce loosis and this, and they said, well, here's
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 4: what happens, and here's the way you get I said, no,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 4: tell me the way you get it. And they said,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 4: it's not from the blood. They said, it's in the
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 4: gentle tools of the animal.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 3: And there's a little.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 4: Clear liquid or something that when you cut that, if
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 4: you've got to cut on your hand, you're getting bruce losis.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: How do you fight that?
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 4: You're going to have to have a battery of doc cycling.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 4: And you start seeing these people then that do a
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 4: lot of this hog counting. Oh yeah, I had that.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: I went to the doctor and had that.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 3: And the disease, and I asked the question I said,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 3: I said, do we communicate that to the public. Coach dowused,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 3: tell me right.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 4: Auburn football, when he came in and his assistant coaches,
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 4: he said he could tell when there was an issue
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: that he didn't want to talk about because he.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 3: Looked and every coach looked out at the table.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 4: I said that same day and I said, I said,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 4: what's what are we doing on this? And that's when
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: Alabama we came out with Commission Lawly came out and said,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: not only do we suggest being careful when you dressed
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: the douaia hog. But we suggest you wear thick rubber gloves.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: Second state in the nation that Texas had already put
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 4: that in their rugs. They said rubber gloves, We said
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 4: thick rubber gloves. But to communicate how it's transferred that
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 4: But here we go back and it's the same with deer,
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 4: and we go back to the political issue with the
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 4: political football. You think the guys with the insurance commissions
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: and the Department of Transportation want any more deer car collisions?
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 4: Do you think they want any more hog car collisions?
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 4: You think they want anybody to quit shooting deer or hogs?
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 4: That reduces those things. That goes to every state, every
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 4: every state in the nation, every every commission like that
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 4: in the nation. All that's got to be looked at.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 4: And a lot of people will get on that issue
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: and say, oh, they just don't like us doing that. Buddy,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 4: there's a lot that's that's a lot deeper, well than
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 4: you think you're deeper.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: Different one.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw the I saw the dumbest headline this
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: morning and Wired Wired magazine it.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: Was Florida Panthers reduced deer car collisions because there's some
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: some some genius. It's like, well, they eat deer, so
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: they reduced deer car collisions. You could have written that
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: article a long time ago, wrote hunters.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 4: On top of that, what's those two hundred Florida panthers
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 4: gonna do with me? And white tails and laughing about.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: My Oh my god, man, you can write a way
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: better article and just change the first word hunters. You
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: have a way bigger impact. But this is, this is
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: way off what we've been talking about. But this is
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: this is the thing that I noticed, the thing you
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: guys did at MULTI that I don't that I don't get.
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe explain how this works.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: You know, you used to have to buy like if you,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: let's say you have a Verizon phone, okay, you you'd
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: go and you'd get a camera, and you'd get like
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: a Verizon camera or a whatever camera. But now your
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: cameras just do whatever signal's best.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: So for instance, we keep we keep one on our
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: fishack in Alaska just so we can see who's coming
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: and going.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: I got it on a tree, and like if you
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: come up on our beach and go toward our shops,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: like I already got your picture, but that's eight. There's
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: no Verizon signals AT and T, so all of a sudden,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: you could be hang a camera up and it just
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: grabs whatever signals available. Is that? Like do you range?
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: Do you have to arrange all that with AT and
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: T and Verizon? Like how's that whole thing work? Like?
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: Why is why is your phone not that way?
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 4: You know, it's a great all that has to be
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 4: negotiated and done, But I don't understand. I understand it
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: from a business standpoint. If you got your turf, if
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 4: your podcasts are protected and you're only showed and nobody
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 4: can come into your turf unless they sign up for
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 4: your podcast or listen to them, that's your turf. Yeah,
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 4: think about Verizon probably had spent billions of dollars protecting
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 4: their turf.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, building it protecting you.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 4: You think you think they want to be taken out
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 4: by automated choice of an item?
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 3: What if every cell phone did that?
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: But how are you guys? How are you able to
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: do it? I mean it was great because it solved
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: the huge problem, but how is it okay to how
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: are you able to do it? You know what?
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 3: I believe probably and I don't know this. This is
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: my guess. There's a lot of people. Let me tell you,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: everybody in multiy smarter than I am.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 4: Now, they're smart. We got the smartest team. They're smart,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 4: smart folks. How they get that done, I don't know,
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 4: but I think that probably somebody powers it be thought.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 4: That's not gonna change a little od selle can They're
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 4: not How many of them were out there got it?
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: They didn't know and I don't know.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 4: Christmas last year we were holding eighteen billion pictures in
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 4: the cloud, no telling what that that. That's probably double
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 4: or triple that now now they're finding that out. I
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 4: don't know, but I would like would would you not
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 4: want a cell phone that it was like a satellite
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 4: phone that anywhere you went it beat the best signal.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: So I on here.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: I used to carry I used to have two because
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: AT and T is great in Alaska. So I used
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: to carry on two phones. I called it my my
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: regular phone and in my AT and T phone. Now
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: I just pay two monthly things which are not cheap, right,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: and I have them both because I have two SIM cards.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: Right. But then on the camera, I used to not
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: put one up in AT and T areas because like
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: then they gotta go buy it like whatever.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, I saw you guys
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: stuff that it that doesn't matter. Just grabs the best signal.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: That's great, best thing.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: Sure, but I was like, well, how come aren't phones
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: that way?
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 4: And think about Steve. Everybody thinks, oh, we're just us,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 4: We're worldwide. I mean you look, we go into Mexico
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 4: or Canada, we have to be able to grab different signals. Yeah,
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 4: we don't know what cell bases are there.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, I got it, But what was it when it
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: had to what was it? Whatever? Years ago?
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 4: You would send people up and find out the major
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 4: You look to the carrier maps. You know the map
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 4: that Verizon always shows when they are t mobile use
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: us and it shows all the red is where you
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 4: can get their signal on the on this.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: So that's what you go find out. You find out
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: what the.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 4: Biggest base was, and that's the one you had to
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 4: be a customer to. Or you find out if you
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 4: had a if the uh, let's say tractor supply in
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: your area as was, you're going to be your biggest
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 4: vendor there of Walmart or whoever. You find out who
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 4: they had relationships with and that's probably who you went with. God,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: but it was controlled by areas size and.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: In one day, boom. It doesn't matter.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: Look at it this way.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 4: If Walmart is selling cameras and there's a carrier that
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 4: only had if AT and T doesn't have a two
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: percent and Verizon has ninety eight percent coverage, which camera,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 4: which which phone? Do you think Walmart's gonna sell? They
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: got to go with the better coverage. So you study
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 4: that and do that. But it's sure a lot better
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 4: being able to do it. I wish I could take
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 4: credit for that, if that wouldn't make Steven do that,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 4: but it was somebody smart and multily.
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: Oh it was a good Yeah. I just want to well,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: when you find out, I will let you talk to
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: you guys and find out tell me that I took notice.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: I will get that part.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a great development. Yeah, oh that was huge.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 4: You know, I get asked a lot and a lot
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 4: of the podcasting stuff and being in the commercial side
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 4: of selling the honey being hunting and fishing my whole life,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 4: but the commercial side, right at fifty years, what's the
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 4: biggest change you saw. I always thought it was the
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 4: compound bow being able to see it come from recurve
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 4: to longbow or longbow to recurve to compound bow, round wheels,
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 4: sixty five percent let off, hooping you on booney crocket.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 4: If you don't shoot it with you can't go over
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 4: this let off. Then you've got some bows one hundred
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 4: percent let off and it goes everywhere across the board. Boy,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: look how many bow hunters there are now from the
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 4: Fred Bare days. And I thought, you know, that may
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 4: have been. It's one of the biggest changes.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 4: I keep getting That's what I truly believed, you know,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 4: I was watching that the entire term of my industry involvement.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: I get pointed out it maybe that the camera's right there.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes to be cute. Yeah, I'll say another one. Yeah,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: it's not just to be cute. There's an argument you made,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 2: I'll say, the digital rangefinder.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: Because the old days are like, well, if I zero
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: my gun three inches, I had a hundred and you know,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: and like and then I mean for archeries.
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 4: Hugh, Yeah, how many caddies on golf courses or golfers
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 4: are using that range finder to find the distance to
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 4: the pen and they're supposed to be're not supposed to be.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the whole thing. Oh it's a good flat
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: shooting rifle. Like all that goes out the window. Yeah,
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you exactly where the bullet is going to be,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: Like it can it can arc all at once, I'll
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: tell you right where it's going to be.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna tell you that the the and we used
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 4: to call them, I said, I was saying digital laser laser. Sorry,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 4: we used to to call the hunts where you could
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 4: show up for a hunt and just pack a bag
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: and just suitcase hunts where you didn't have to take
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 4: a gun. But nobody ever trusted the guns.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: Mh. You go.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 4: Now, these guides and outfitters, they got naice of farms
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 4: and anybody, and they they know every concept of minute
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 4: of angle, velocity, what the bullet does, They know how
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 4: to their their monoculars are talking to their scope and
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 4: all that. That has changed the distance at people harvest game.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 4: I think this is in the last five year deal
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 4: is off the chart now I think.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 3: There, what do you think.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 4: I think there's a lot more animals shot at further
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 4: distances than they used to be.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that wind up charts NA wind up playing in.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: It'll wind up playing into what I talked about when
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: I talked about the fair shared.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 3: Now you knew where I was going to stupid I.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: Just like yesterday, I had a tax exchange with a
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: friend of mine that I'm going to bow hunt elk
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: with this fall. And he says, man, I feel great
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: out to sixty, but a lot of guys are saying
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: seventy to eighty. And I'm like, man, just shoot all
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: you want at seventy eighty.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: But we're going to rain it back when we're out there, man,
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: because somebody, I'll tell you something that's not fun. It's
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: chasing wounded elk and they can take a hit.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: You know, we made them when we bring them out
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 4: to bar and I first thing they shoot, We want
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 4: to see them shoot. You watch how they handle you
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 4: know all this. You watch how they handle of the boat.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 4: You look to their nervousness. Can they handle the crowd
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 4: watching them? Does that get them shook up? If that
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 4: shakes them off, that elk buglen in their face is
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 4: going to shake them up, that's a good indicator. And
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 4: you look at that indicator. Then you look at the
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 4: guy that stacks them, and you know, all the guides
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 4: will be out there. There'll be six of us out there,
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 4: and everybody's like, I'm taking him. You know, they know
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 4: the guy can shoot the deal that I went to
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 4: a PSC We went to a PSC an loppunt one
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 4: year and they had some tremendous long rad shoot. This
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 4: is thirty years ago, and we were talking about hunting
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 4: caribou and we were making those long shots and they said,
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 4: how do you train for that? And I said, I
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: go to that target and shoot that distance, and I'll
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 4: shoot sixty or eighty hours a day right before I go,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 4: you know, just to make sure it's dead on. And
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 4: the guy told me, and this is really good advice.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 4: He said, if you want to shoot sixty, shoot one hundred, yeah,
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 4: and you back back up. And I tell most of
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 4: our owners are coming in. If you want to get
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 4: proficient at fifty, shoot seventy yeah. And that target gets
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 4: a lot easier to hit when you back it up
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 4: like that. But besides that, besides repetition and doing it,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 4: I don't know of any of you guys. And it's
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 4: no different than y'all's weight room down there. Some of
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 4: those guys can bitch press three eighty. Most of them can't.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 4: Some of those archers can can make seventy yard shots exactly,
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 4: most of them can't.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's guys out there that can shoot seventy better
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: and you can shoot thirty go.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: Back to the earth.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's a lot of guys I know, and like,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: you know, we've been guilty. I've been guilty. This is
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: my kids and whatever. Like situations where the longest shot
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: they ever took. Yeah, the longest shot they ever.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: Took was that a deer, right, right, So yeah, it's like,
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 2: what's what you train for, what you practice for, how
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: comfortable you are?
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: You can't, Yeah, you could.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: You could never come in and say hereby I declare
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: that people can't shoot more than blank yards because it's different.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: For different right.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 4: And if let's say you're in the twentieth day of
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 4: September and the elk or rutting so hard there in
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 4: your face, you deprive the guy of honey because he
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 4: can't shoot forty, but you're gonna shoot one at ten
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: yards that day.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: Every situation. Yeah, he gotta be comfortable.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 4: And I think the stute guy watches that and keeps
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 4: a guy within his comfort, right, And again all that
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 4: being set on the ethical side of take.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: Care of that. Yeah.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: Well, Dan Moultie, thanks for joining. Man, A great talk.
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 2: I love I have so much fun. I wake up
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: in the morning, I mean every morning, I wake up
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: in the morning and I open my Moultary app. I
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: see what's going on with that camera? I can't find
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: we got I got just I got little projects going on.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: My friends all laugh because I got a camera called
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: the beaver Camp and it's a camera that sits between
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: a creek and a pond and there's like a slide.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 3: Are you watching them coming down the slide?
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: Dude?
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: I have every animal on the planet that walks through
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: that that walks through I just love it, man. I
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 2: love like finding out what's going on out there.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 4: You know, how many guys, and especially in our industry,
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 4: but I always wonder any industry. We'll be in a
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 4: meeting somewhere and you'll see guys and you know, they're
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 4: hunting their kick back and they're looking at the phone,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 4: paying attention to what they're saying, but they're looking How
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 4: many of those guys you think are looking at their
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 4: Moultrie up looking at there's a bunch of buddy.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my friend, Like I take my kids every spring
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: to hunt. I take my kids every spring to hunt
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: turkeys in Wisconsin for the youth turkey season. Anyways, my
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 2: buddy out there, Uh, what month is it?
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 4: What?
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: Right now? It's August, early August.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: August.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: He took a he took a break, you know, from May.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: But it's early August. It's already started. He's like, rope dragger,
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: rope drager.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: Texting me images because like we're already thinking about next spring,
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: you know. And it's just funny because I like, like
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: through that, I'll kind of live you know, like through
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: those pictures and stuff, we'll kind of like live this
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: long that one.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: Kind of thing, you know what I mean, you get
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: to watch them. It just brings its like, it brings
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of I mean, it's great because it tells
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: you it's out, but it just brings a lot of enjoyment.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: It brings a lot of enjoyment. Sharing the just sharing
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: the pictures. Man.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 4: I want you to at some point, if you can
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 4: do it. We we almost everybody I think in the
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 4: hunting industry. One of our biggest achievements we've done at
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 4: the State of Alabama is we have the Governor's Turkey
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 4: Hunt every year. At one time, I think it was
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 4: probably the biggest hunting event in the nation. I'd hunted
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 4: on the Governor's hunting in uh for Alope, the antelope hunt, the.
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: The one shot Yeah, hunted one shot Wyoming.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 4: I got to hunt with Charlie Daniels for those five days. Oh,
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 4: it was just it was that the greatest five days.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 4: It was unbelievable.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: Good I was on when I did it. I was
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: on the actual governors deal. So I was like hunting
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: with the governors. You know.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 3: I was on the sportsman se when we did it there.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 3: But but but we do the Governor's Hunt.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 4: We raise all our money for all our our our
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 4: hunter's help and the hungry, the getting women into hunting.
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 4: We have the largest two scholarships in wildlife at all
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 4: the state universities, at Auburn and Alabama.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 3: Even though we like Auburn a little more. In Alabama.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 3: I didn't say that, but you saw some of that
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 3: when you were down there. But I want you to
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 3: come hunt that hunt with us.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: The governors.
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: We hunt the Governor's Hunt every year.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: Well, how many there must be a bunch of participating land.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 4: On a lot of participers, we will run up to
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 4: I think the probably the highest one hundred and thirty
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 4: one hundred and forty farms in the state, but it's.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: Quite the every farm.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 4: What we learned in growing that as a fundraiser was
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 4: every person that owns a farm is proud of what
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 4: they do, and they want to show off those farms,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 4: and they want to show they were the best game
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 4: managers do such a good job. And let me tell you,
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 4: that's been the best. I did a segment on CNBC
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 4: about how successful it was because they all want to
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 4: the best steward and the best people in the state
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 4: to talk about how great wildlife is in the state.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 4: Were the ones that had their farms giving away their
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 4: hunts for this one with everybody that had come in,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 4: but a lot, a lot of people. You need to
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 4: come home that one with this one year.
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: I love you, I love you.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 3: What is it? Yeah, it's usually the second third weekend
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 3: of the season.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: But and tell me again, the orgs, you guys raise
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: money for it.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 3: We raised money for hunters, helping the hungry. Anything.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 4: When we came in the game and fish almost always
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 4: that had been in the red we put it in
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 4: the black with the governor's turkey. Yes, that's how big
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 4: a fundraiser. It is a huge deal in Alabama.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: And very well.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: Successive governors pick it up.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 4: Yes, successive governors pick it up. It was so successful
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 4: at getting the people participating. One of the governors came
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 4: in and said, everybody, we go to raise money, y'all
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 4: have already hit them.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: For donating money to be in this deal.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 4: Why don't we do that every the year so it
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 4: doesn't fall on a year that the governor's going to
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 4: be late when they're raising money for them.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: That's high effective people that I already gave.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 3: Man, I want you to come down and be my
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 3: guests and and uh we'll we'll make a run it,
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: win in it, and it's it's it's a really good event.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 3: I'm I'm off.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 4: I think and and of seeing all the different game
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 4: and fish agencies coming from where we were to where
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 4: it is, I think Alabama has done just a tremendous job.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 4: Our Game and Fish department is off the chart good.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 4: From our rich snapper programs to our wildlife programs. A
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 4: lot of them could pay attention to what we've done.
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: I like to hear that man like like you heard
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: me earlier, you know, acknowledging the work of the state agency.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: I feel that those guys, a lot of those agencies
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: let me eat especially, you know, even the very well
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: intentioned is very effective ones. It's people's favorite thing to
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: like trash on, but a lot of time as they're
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: trashing on it without having any idea of the complexities.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: And what goes into doing that, that work.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, if they got the if they got
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: the right motivations, and you feel that they're that they're
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: looking out for the best interests of outdoors men and
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: land users and managers, it's like, give them a shout,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: you know, if they're doing good job.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good. It's good to hear you complimenting, because
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like those guys get beat up.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 4: Oh they get beat up and blame for everything, but
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 4: they do they're just from the biologist side all the
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 4: way down to the guys that work the the state
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 4: properties to the wardens. They do a fantastic Yeah, really
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 4: really do a good job. And and a lot of
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 4: the states really really do. There's some that politics, as
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 4: we've talked about, ease into but you know what that
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 4: might change to you.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: Well again, Dan Moultrie, thanks for coming on.
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 4: Man, it really really enjoyed it getting out here. I
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 4: told you the very first time I'm at you, and
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 4: this is a huge compliment to you. Listening to you
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 4: talk about Alaska hunting. Anybody that has done Alaska hunting,
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 4: it's a different hunting. And it's easy to tell a fraud.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 4: Oh and you know you know what I'm talking about.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 4: You in five seconds. You know if they're full of
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 4: full of crap or not. You speak from the heart,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 4: you speak from what you know about And it's a
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 4: joy to watch your show when you're when you're giving
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 4: those shows.
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, man, I appreciate it, absolutely is. We'll
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: keep the coming. Yeah, absolutely, thank you.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 3: Don't forget airhead hunting. I think I think I may
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 3: have got your attention earlier for the.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: Show I'm in. Next time you come on, we're gonna talk,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: but we're gonna show the arrowhead. We're gonna bore everybody
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: and show arrowhead pictures. I bet we can, I bet
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: we can roll with it. You do good, Thanks man,
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you