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The True Story Behind 'This Is the Zodiac Speaking' · Murder Files Unsealed

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  Speaker 1: All right, let's dive into a mystery that just never
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  seems to get old, you know, the one, I mean,
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  the Zodiac Killer. Yeh, over fifty years, so many theories,
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  people are still completely captivated by it. Absolutely, five murders
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  right in California, cryptic letters to the press, that persona
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  just terrifying.
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  Speaker 2: It's a case that just won't die, It really won't.
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  Speaker 1: But today we're going deeper beyond the headlines. And you
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  shared the Netflix docuseries with me. This is the Zodiac speaking, Yeah,
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  and it says they have new evidence about a suspect
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  who was always kind of there from the beginning, Arthur
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  Lee Allen. So let's unpack all this. What's different about
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  what the documentary's saying, and you know, could this finally
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  be the break in the case we've been waiting for.
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  Speaker 2: What's interesting how the case is just you know, so compelling,
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  how it stays with us. Yeah, and the docuseries really
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  does add something, adds a layer to it. Okay, So
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  you see Allan he was first investigated back in nineteen
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  seventy one. Okay, because it's something he said, something he
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  said to a friend. Yeah, he talked about shooting out
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  tires on a school bus and then targeting with the children.
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  Speaker 1: Wait a second, that's almost exactly what the Zodiac wrote
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  in one of his letters. That can't just be a coincidence.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a huge red flag, definitely for the investigator.
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  So they search his trailer and they find some well
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  disturbing stuff like what hunting knives? Oh wow, a collection
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  of dead animals, but nothing, nothing that directly tied him
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  to the murders.
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  Speaker 1: So they had all the suspicion but no real proof, right,
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  So did they have any other evidence against him at
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  the time?
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  Speaker 2: There was some circumstantial stuff okay, he wore a Zodiac
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  brand watch, his shoe size matched a footprint at a
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  crime scene, and two survivors even identified him.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
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  Speaker 2: The problem was the Zodiac always wore a mask, right, right,
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  So the ideas weren't reliable. They couldn't really be sure.
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  And later on, this was in two thousand and two,
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  NAS actually cleared him.
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  Speaker 1: So if he was cleared, why is this documentary focusing
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  on him again?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question.
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  Speaker 1: What's new?
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  Speaker 2: Well, they focus on the Seawater siblings okay, and they
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  knew Alan personally, okay. Their story adds a whole new dimension.
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  Speaker 1: I'm listening.
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  Speaker 2: So they say they alleged that Alan took them on
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  trips to certain places to where that later became Zodiac
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  crime scenes.
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  Speaker 1: No way, he took them to the actual murder sites
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  before the murders even happened.
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  Speaker 2: That's what they claim.
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  Speaker 1: That is beyond creepy. It is was he like planning
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  things out right in front of them.
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  Speaker 2: It's a really chilling thought. Yeah, and that's what the
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  documentary is using to build the case. They also interview
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  former students of Allan, okay, who remember that he taught
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  them complex ciphers really similar to the ones used by
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  the Zodiac.
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  Speaker 1: So we have a guy who, you know, he kind
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  of fits the profile. He says, creepy stuff. He maybe
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  visited the crime scenes before. For it's starting to feel
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  like a real life, you know, thriller.
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  Speaker 2: It really is. And then just when you think it
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  can't get more intense, the documentary they just dropped this bombshell.
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  One of the siblings, David Seawater, claims that Allan confessed
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  on his deathbed. Wow, he admitted to He says that
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  Alan admitted to molesting his sister Connie. Oh my and
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  being the Zodiac killer.
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  Speaker 1: A deathback confession. That's that's intense.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean how.
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  Speaker 1: Much can we really trust personal testimony like that, you know,
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  especially without physical evidence to back it up. Memories can
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  be unreliable.
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  Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, especially when you're talking about something this traumatic. Ye,
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  your right to be cautious. Okay, that's what makes that's
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  what makes analyzing this new evidence so fascinating, right, we
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  have to look at it critically and consider all the
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  different angles.
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  Speaker 1: So where do we even start with all of this.
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  We've got a suspect who was cleared by DNA, these
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  stories from the siblings, Yeah, and that similarity between what
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  Alan said and what the Zodiac wrote. It's a lot to.
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  Speaker 2: Process, it is, and to really get a handle on it,
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  we need to step back from the details for a
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  second and look at how memory works, especially when it
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  comes to trauma.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, let's do that. Okay, because if they're remembering wrong
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  or exaggerating, it changes everything exactly.
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  Speaker 2: False memories are a real thing. They're not lying, but
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  their brains maybe they're filled in gaps or distorted details
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  over time, especially if they saw stuff about the case
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  after it happened.
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  Speaker 1: So how do we know what's real and what's not,
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  you know, especially after so long.
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  Speaker 2: That's where it gets That's where it gets difficult. Experts.
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  They look for consistency over time, okay, if their stories
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  stay the same. They look for corroboration from other sources
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  and specific details things that are unlikely to be made up. Okay,
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  it's complicated.
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  Speaker 1: What about deathbed confessions?
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's another area with a lot of debate.
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  Some confession are real, you know, the person is remorseful. Yeah,
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  But others maybe they want attention where their mind is deteriorating,
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  or even even a twisted way to control things after
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  they're gone. It's hard to say.
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  Speaker 1: So even with this confession, we're still not sure.
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  Speaker 2: Not at all.
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  Speaker 1: It's not a sure thing.
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  Speaker 2: We have to look at the context, you know, the
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  person's state of mind, motives for lying. It's another layer
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  of complexity.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is.
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  Speaker 2: And that's really what we're dealing with, isn't it. Yeah
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  we're trying to figure out what happened, but you know,
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  memory it's not.
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  Speaker 1: Perfect, right, So where does that leave us with Alan?
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  The documentary obviously wants us to think he's the Zodiac,
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  but is there really enough there, that's the question.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think we should say there
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  are other suspects out there, other.
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  Speaker 1: Theories, right, and the documentary just focuses on Alan. It
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  doesn't really give us the whole picture exactly. I mean
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  I've heard about like the Ross Sullivan theory he worked
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  at the library where one of Zodiac's letters was mailed from,
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  supposedly that's right.
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  Speaker 2: And there's Richard Gaikowski too, oh right. Some people think
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  he matches the descriptions and the writing style. And they're
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  even theories about the Manson family, you know, connecting them
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  to the case.
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  Speaker 1: So with all these different suspects, can we really narrow
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  it down at this point?
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  Speaker 2: It's hard. Cold cases are tough like that. Yeah, Memories fade,
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  evidence is lost. It's just difficult. It's been so long, yeah,
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  and I think that's why people are still so fascinated
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  by it. It's this puzzle with missing pieces.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone wants to solve that exactly.
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  Speaker 2: And when we don't have the answer, our brains they
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  try to fill in the blanks. We look for patterns,
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  connect the dots, and sometimes we create stories that fit
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  what we already think.
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  Speaker 1: So how do we avoid doing that? How do we
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  look at this objectively based on facts and not just
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  you know, what we want to believe.
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  Speaker 2: That's where critical thinking comes in. Ok. We look at
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  each piece of evidence on its own, think of the source,
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  any biases, and how it fits with everything else.
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  Speaker 1: So let's try that with Alan. Okay, we've got the
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  stuff he said, similar to the letters. We've got the
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  siblings stories, but maybe their memories are off or their exaggerating.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the.
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  Speaker 1: Deathbed confession, which could be real or or something else entirely.
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  Speaker 2: Well, we can't forget about the DNA evidence.
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  Speaker 1: Right, that cleared him.
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  Speaker 2: That's a big deal.
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  Speaker 1: Wait, what does it all mean?
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  Speaker 2: I don't know. Are we any closer to knowing who
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  the Zodiac was?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, the documentary brings up good points, it does,
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  but it doesn't, you know, really prove anything.
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  Speaker 2: There's no smoking gun.
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  Speaker 1: Right, we still have so many questions.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of unanswered questions.
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  Speaker 1: It's like the Zodiac wanted it this way. You know.
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  He liked the attention, He likes scaring people.
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  Speaker 2: He had all this power, and that's what makes this
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  case so different. He wasn't just a killer, right, he
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  was he was playing games. Yeah, with the public, the police, everyone,
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  and even.
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  Speaker 1: Though it's been so long, it feels like the game
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  is still going on and understand him.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, to figure them out, crack the code. And that's
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  the power of the case. It stays with us, it
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  haunts us.
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  Speaker 1: It's unsettling, you know, the thought that we might never
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  know for sure who did all.
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  Speaker 2: This it is and that's something we have to live with, right. Yeah.
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  Not every story has a perfect ending, I guess not.
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  Sometimes we don't get all the answers, and that's okay.
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  It's the search for the truth that matters, right, The questions,
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  the wondering that keeps us going, that keeps this case alive.
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  Speaker 1: So if we don't know who he was, what can
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  we take away from all this?
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  Speaker 2: Hmm, that's a good question. I think it's a warning
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  or reminder that things aren't always what they see, right,
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  and that evil can be anywhere.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: It also shows is how important critical thinking is to
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  question what we think we know, to keep learning even
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  when we don't find the answers.
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  Speaker 1: And it really shows how much forensic science has changed things.
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  Oh absolutely, imagine if they had the technology we have
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  now back then.
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  Speaker 2: It makes you wonder.
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  Speaker 1: DNA testing would have changed everything.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but even with all that, science can only go
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  so far, right, we still need good detectives, people who
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  can think critically, who follow the evidence.
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  Speaker 1: I think we can all agree the Zodiac case is
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  going to keep fascinating us. Oh yeah, and frustrating us.
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  Speaker 2: Probably.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe that's why we're so drawn to it. It's a
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  reminder that some mysteries they just never get solved, and who.
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  Speaker 2: Knows, maybe one day we'll get a new clue. Yeah,
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  a code will be broken, a memory will come back,
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  and we'll finally know who the Zodiac was.
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  Speaker 1: It could happen, but.
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  Speaker 2: Until then, the mystery continues. You know.
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  Speaker 1: It's amazing, even after all this time, people are still
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  so drawn to the Zodiac case. I know, right, Maybe
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  it's because like we want closure, or maybe it's the
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  idea that someone could just do those things and then
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  just disappear.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think there's something psychological going on there.
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  Unsolved mysteries. They know, they tap into our fear of
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  the unknown.
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  Speaker 1: Right, like we want to know, but it's also scary.
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  Speaker 2: Exactly, there are things out there we just can't control,
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  you know.
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  Speaker 1: And the Zodiac it's almost like he wanted to be scary,
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  the ciphers, the costumed yeah, the less. He was creating
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  this whole mythos around himself.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like he was promoting himself, even though it was
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  in this horrible way.
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  Speaker 1: Right. And you see that with other serial killers too.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, like Jack the Ripper, Oh yeah, they crimes themselves.
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  The letters, the taunting.
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  Speaker 1: It's all part of the persona.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they want to be remembered or infamous something like that.
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  Speaker 1: But the Zodiac he was never caught, right, he just vanished.
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  It's like he outsmarted everyone.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, even after he was gone.
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  Speaker 1: And that's the frustrating part.
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  Speaker 2: I know, we want justice, we want answers, but sometimes
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  we just don't get them.
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  Speaker 1: So where does that leave us? After all this? What
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  should our listeners take away from this whole thing?
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  Speaker 2: I think, more than anything, be critical, Okay, don't just
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  believe everything you see, you know in a documentary or
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  read in an article. Right, look deeper, question your assumptions,
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  consider different possibilities.
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  Speaker 1: You know, this whole deep dive has really shown how
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  important forensic science is. Oh yeah, I mean imagine how
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  many cases could be solved now that couldn't be solved
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  back then.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, DNA testing has changed everything.
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  Speaker 1: But even with all the technology we have now, it's
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  important to remember that it's not everything.
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  Speaker 2: We still need good detectives. Yeah, critical thinking, following the evidence.
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  Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say the Zodiac case is
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  going to be with us for a long time. Oh yeah,
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  but maybe that's the appeal. You know, there are still
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  mysteries out there, some of them we may never solve.
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  Speaker 2: You never know. Maybe one day some new evidence will
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  show up, or someone will crack a code, or a
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  memory will come back and we'll finally know who the
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  Zodiac was.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could happen.
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  Speaker 2: Until then, the mystery continues.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's it for our deep dive on the Zodiac killer.
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  Speaker 2: It's a fascinating case.
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  Speaker 1: Definitely one that keeps you thinking. Absolutely make sure to
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  check out part one and two of this episode.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah if you haven't already, and let us know what
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  you think. Yeah, we'd love to hear your theories.
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  Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with another deep dive.
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  Speaker 2: See then,