Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Education Department’s Aderyn Chatterton says 21 counsellors will rotate between secondary schools across the NT while recruitment is underway to fill six roles

Transcript

Education Department’s Aderyn Chatterton says 21 counsellors will rotate between secondary schools across the NT while recruitment is underway to fill six roles · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned, we know that plans to move school
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: counselors to a regional office have been met with backlash
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: from senior students as well as school counsels and a
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: number of parents joining me on the line to tell
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: us a little bit more about how exactly this is
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  Speaker 1: going to work. Is The Education Department's Executive Director of
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Inclusion and Engagement Services are Darren Chatterton.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning to you.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Good morning Katie. Thank you for the opportunity to talk more.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Now tell me how is this new model going to work?
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  Speaker 3: Thank you. So, first of all, I just want to
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  Speaker 3: clarify that we absolutely have school counselors in our schools.
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  Speaker 3: There's not a big move to move all of our
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  Speaker 3: school counselors into the Mitchell Center or into our office.
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  Speaker 3: But what we are focusing on is ensuring we have
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: strong teams in each of our regional locations so that
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  Speaker 3: we can be supporting students and schools in the great
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: work that they do right across the Northern Territory.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So the school councilors aren't being moved out of Casuarina
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  Speaker 1: Senior College or other schools.
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  Speaker 3: So what we've currently got is we've got in our structure.
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  Speaker 3: We've got thirty positions, thirty school councilor position right across
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  Speaker 3: the Northern territory. We've currently got twenty one of those
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  Speaker 3: filled and three will be starting by the end of May,
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  Speaker 3: and we're continuing to recruit to fill those other vacancies all around.
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  Speaker 2: So where exactly are they going to be based?
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  Speaker 1: Twenty one of those already filled, you're going to have
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  Speaker 1: a three more on, so twenty four in total.
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  Speaker 2: So where exactly will they be based?
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  Speaker 3: So our current model is they're based in our middle
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  Speaker 3: and senior schools and then we also have some offices
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  Speaker 3: that are in our center. So two positions that look
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  Speaker 3: at ensuring we've got the ability to respond to all schools,
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  Speaker 3: so schools know that they can reach out to us
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  Speaker 3: if they don't have a school counselor space, and they
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  Speaker 3: can say, you know, this issues popped up, we need
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  Speaker 3: some support, and we've got those qualified people manning the
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  Speaker 3: phones and the emails, and just last week someone went
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  Speaker 3: out within twenty minutes of a school contact in them
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  Speaker 3: to say, you know, we need some additional support. So
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  Speaker 3: we have those people on the ground wherever they're needed,
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  Speaker 3: and we fly them across the territory if required.
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  Speaker 1: All right, So I just want to really get to
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  Speaker 1: the heart of this. We've got school saying that they're
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: being moved out of those various different locations, So out
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  Speaker 1: of those schools and into a centralized model. Are you
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  Speaker 1: telling me that they're not going into that centralized model.
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  Speaker 3: We currently are not removing counselors from our schools to
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  Speaker 3: work in the center. We do have a centralized model
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  Speaker 3: around ensuring there's consistency in paperwork and information that's provided
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  Speaker 3: so that we can look at what other support might
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  Speaker 3: be required. But we are having conversations with our school principles.
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  Speaker 3: In a fortnite we've got another check in reflecting on
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  Speaker 3: you know, we're returning to this new process of referrals,
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  Speaker 3: and also you know, we do have twenty one out
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  Speaker 3: of thirty positions build, which has meant in some instances
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  Speaker 3: we've had to look at some of the counselors that
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  Speaker 3: may have been based in a school five days a
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  Speaker 3: week for a few weeks, working across two schools, again
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  Speaker 3: just to ensure that our middle and senior schools have
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  Speaker 3: equity access.
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  Speaker 1: So there's only three counselors out of thirty currently working
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  Speaker 1: at the Mitchell Center.
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  Speaker 2: Is that right?
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  Speaker 3: We have people rousted on. There's two a week.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, just I'm really trying to work out exactly how
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  Speaker 1: this is. You know, how this is going to work,
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  Speaker 1: because obviously in Ti Conso was on the show yesterday
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  Speaker 1: as we're the captains of one of those schools that
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  Speaker 1: were incredibly concerned that the counselors are being moved out
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  Speaker 1: of the school. But you're essentially saying to me this
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  Speaker 1: morning that they're not being moved out of the school.
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  Speaker 3: No. Our structure, in our area, we have a large
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  Speaker 3: focus on school facing support and provision, and so I understand.
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  Speaker 3: I listened to the interview yesterday, and we also when
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  Speaker 3: I saw the online petition from the students of Catherina
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  Speaker 3: Senior College, I reached out to the school and said, look,
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  Speaker 3: I'd love to come and meet with your src. Let's
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  Speaker 3: have a conversation, let me respond to their concerns, but
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  Speaker 3: also hear from them around what it means their lived
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  Speaker 3: experience and reality in relation to the role. So that's
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  Speaker 3: happening this week. We also are working with our Youth
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  Speaker 3: Voice crew around our ongoing focus on mental health and
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  Speaker 3: well being, and we look forward in a few weeks.
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  Speaker 3: I've got some time with the cogso we really value
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  Speaker 3: we acknowledge whenever we're looking at mental health and well being,
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  Speaker 3: support for students, parent voice, and partnerships integral. So really
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  Speaker 3: looking forward to clarifying.
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  Speaker 1: So is this a back flip, I mean, is this
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  Speaker 1: a backflip from the department, because yesterday obviously we've seen
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  Speaker 1: the Department of Education at issue to statement saying that
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  Speaker 1: the move to regional teams will provide greater equity in
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  Speaker 1: access to services and support, and that the model is
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  Speaker 1: being introduced in well is consistent with what other states
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  Speaker 1: and territories are doing, and that while some staff may
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  Speaker 1: be based in regional offices, they're working hours, will be
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  Speaker 1: physically in schools supporting students. But from what I can
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  Speaker 1: read from that, they are going to be based in
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  Speaker 1: those regional offices. But you're saying now that that's not
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  Speaker 1: the case.
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  Speaker 3: So the statement there refers to those duty officer positions
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  Speaker 3: that I just mentioned, So you know they are positions
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  Speaker 3: based in the US, but all the others are out
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  Speaker 3: in our schools, all right.
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  Speaker 1: Can you just break it down for us, So how
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  Speaker 1: many of them are out in the schools.
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  Speaker 3: So we have twenty one councilors across the Northern territory.
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  Speaker 3: So for example, we currently have five in the Darwin
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  Speaker 3: region and we're recruiting to the other four positions that
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  Speaker 3: are vacant, and so they are based in our middle
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  Speaker 3: and senior secondary schools and.
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  Speaker 2: They're going to stay in those schools.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, at this point in time, while we continue to
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  Speaker 3: have conversations, we want to continue to strengthen, strengthen the
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  Speaker 3: work that we're doing in this space.
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  Speaker 1: Was the plan though to move them to that centralized office.
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  Speaker 3: The plan has always been around equity of service. You know,
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  Speaker 3: we need to continue to think about how we're also
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  Speaker 3: providing support for our primary schools. And so I know
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  Speaker 3: that our counselors, you know, they tend to work in hubs,
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  Speaker 3: our schools. They look at the primary schools that feed
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  Speaker 3: into middle and senior secondary and I know that when required,
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  Speaker 3: some of our middle and senior school counselors also partnering
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  Speaker 3: and tap into their local primary school. But also that's
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  Speaker 3: the role of those duty counselors that we have those
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  Speaker 3: two positions.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to make sense of this because obviously,
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  Speaker 1: like I said, you've got a situation where clearly schools
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  Speaker 1: and students were very concerned about the changes that were
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  Speaker 1: coming into play. And from the sounds of what you're saying,
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  Speaker 1: those school counselors are not moving out right now, but
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  Speaker 1: there were discussions around around the plans in the future.
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  Speaker 1: So is it a situation here where the department's backfliped.
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  Speaker 3: No, No, This whole thing was always about consultationation and conversations.
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  Speaker 3: We've partnered with Deloitte and last term, I know there
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  Speaker 3: was a series of consultations with our principles, getting feedback
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  Speaker 3: on what service needs there are in this space, also
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  Speaker 3: getting feedback about what's working well and where our challenges
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  Speaker 3: are as we kind of seek to continue to improve.
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  Speaker 3: But I just reiterate, you know, students will continue to
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  Speaker 3: still see counselors in their schools. They'll still have access
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  Speaker 3: to the important mental health support.
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  Speaker 1: The big concern from those students is that is that
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  Speaker 1: they're worried that if you need that urgent counseling, that
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  Speaker 1: there isn't going to be a school counselor on site
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  Speaker 1: to be able to provide that service.
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  Speaker 2: What would you say to those students.
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  Speaker 3: I'd like to reassure them that already there are instances where,
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  Speaker 3: for example, a young person presents at their school and
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  Speaker 3: maybe the school counsel is away for the day. And
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  Speaker 3: I know our school staff do a great job, but
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  Speaker 3: then what they do is they reach out to us,
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  Speaker 3: and that strength of that model with having two people
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  Speaker 3: available via email on the phone to talk through the
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  Speaker 3: school team, and then to get people out to support
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  Speaker 3: on the ground as required.
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  Speaker 1: Now I've got a message here that had come through
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  Speaker 1: from Scott and he said, Hi, Katie, my child has
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  Speaker 1: mental health issues, suffers from depression and has been suicidal
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  Speaker 1: for some time. I have them seeing professionals outside of school. However,
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  Speaker 1: I believe having a school based counselor has been paramount
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  Speaker 1: in saving my child's life.
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  Speaker 2: What would you.
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  Speaker 1: Say to somebody like Scott who is a parent who's
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  Speaker 1: obviously concerned about these changes or about what could change
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  Speaker 1: in terms of they're being that counseling, they're available and
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  Speaker 1: ready to students who need it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Katie. I think Scott Scott's story there
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  Speaker 3: just highlights another important role that our counselors play. So
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  Speaker 3: they are that one person and that important point of
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  Speaker 3: call for our young people. But there's also work that
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  Speaker 3: we do around ensuring that families, students, and our own
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  Speaker 3: staff are aware of all of the other different providers
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  Speaker 3: that can be in this space providing important wrap around support.
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  Speaker 3: We know that our schools are places that people feel
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  Speaker 3: comfortable and a place of belonging. We know our teachers
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  Speaker 3: are so connected to our young people, and so it's
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  Speaker 3: about us ensuring not just our counselors are there, but
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  Speaker 3: also that we have really current information available to support
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  Speaker 3: families as they navigate this space. It's actually a topic
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  Speaker 3: of conversation I'm having with cogso in a few weeks
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  Speaker 3: around what pieces of information can we be putting out
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  Speaker 3: there to support families in this space. Counselor yes, one
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  Speaker 3: on one support, but also sometimes it's a triage, it's
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  Speaker 3: a referral to other services.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it does sound as though they're just aren't enough
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  Speaker 1: counselors to go around, So I'll get to that in
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a second. But we're literally receiving messages right now saying
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  Speaker 1: that those school councilors has already been moved.
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  Speaker 3: They haven't been moved permanently. There are people that have
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  Speaker 3: changed their change maybe their school, Like I know one
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  Speaker 3: school that were used to having a counselor for five
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  Speaker 3: days a week. They currently have to have that person
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  Speaker 3: for maybe three days a week and then two the
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  Speaker 3: next week, as we maximize our resources across our schools
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  Speaker 3: while we undergo the recruitment. Just last week, I checked
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  Speaker 3: in with a counselor who have started up in Central
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  Speaker 3: Region and she's working between Centralian Middle School and Centralian
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  Speaker 3: Senior School.
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  Speaker 1: So they are rotating between school. Look, honestly, I'm feeling
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  Speaker 1: really confused, and I understan and appreciate the fact that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you've rocked up on the show to answer questions for us,
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  Speaker 1: but I feel as though there's bits of the puzzle
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  Speaker 1: that are missing here. So they have been moved out
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: of some of those schools. They're obviously rotating, and it
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  Speaker 1: sounds as so it's because we don't.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Have enough of them.
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  Speaker 3: Because we're undergoing recruitment to the positions that we do have.
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  Speaker 3: We've actually grown the number of councilors in our structure
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  Speaker 3: by five compared to last year, and when we looked
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: at the number of counselors based in each region, we
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: did use student student numbers. For example, so if you
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: were when I shared the data before. Darwin Region, for example,
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  Speaker 3: we have nine counselors based in the Darwin Region, based
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  Speaker 3: in schools in the Darwin Region, and Darwin Region have
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  Speaker 3: our largest number of students in the government school Look.
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  Speaker 1: Fundamentally, what every what every student, what everybody wants out
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: of this whole situation is that kids that need it
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: are able to see a school counselor. I mean to
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: those that are listening this morning, to those students that
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: we spoke to yesterday who are incredibly concerned, to NT
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Cogso who are obviously incredibly concerned, to parents like Scott
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: who have emailed through here is one of many that
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: is incredibly concerned that this model that is being flagged,
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  Speaker 1: whether it's happening now or whether it's down the track,
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  Speaker 1: they're very worried that kids are going to fall through
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: the cracks. What is your message to those people?
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: My message to those people is we know how critical
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: our school counselors are and the essential support service that
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: they provide to our students in our schools, and we
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: want to ensure that that support is equitable and available
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: to all schools. And we you know, are looking forward
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: to seeing the outcome of the work that we are
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: doing now to grow our workforce and to fill those
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: vacancy so that we continue to build and support our
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: schools in responding to the needs of young people.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And is there going to be further consultation from this point.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, so we've already got consultation scheduled so the
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Youth Voice crew this week, which was pre planned because
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: they identified this as one of their priority pieces of work.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: I'll be out at Casarina Senior College and you know,
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: meeting with all principals next week and extend to them
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: we're happy to be in all of their schools having
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: the conversations with young people. And then we're with COGSO
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: again in a few weeks, and we have regular quarterly
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: meetings with an All the Territory Principles Association as well,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: so continuing to test our thinking and talking to them.
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  Speaker 3: You know, they play an important role of ensuring that
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: we are talking to a diverse representation of our principles
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: and our schools right across the Northern Territory. So we
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: will continue to have conversations.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Darren, Just finally, is this model is, you know, is
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: what we're moving towards? Is it something that the Minister
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: for Education is supportive of.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Well. I know our Minister for Education is very supportive
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: of us doing whatever it takes to support all young
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: people to access quality education. She is aware of the
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: work we've done to ensure we have strong regional presence
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: in our in each of our regions, no resources, closest
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: positions to the young people that they support, and so
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: we'll continue to have conversations with our minister as we
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: you know, feedback as we're doing all these consultations on
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: the ground of what we are hearing.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Well Education Department Executive Director of Inclusion and Engagement Services
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: are Darren. I really appreciate your time this morning. I
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that you fronted up and had a
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: discussion with us about this situation.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie. Thank you for your time and the
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: opportunity to talk in greater detail.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you,