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Baby Die, Die, Die (Die! Die!) · Politix

• 0:00
  To be clear,
• 0:00
  as always,
• 0:01
  I think that there are two plausible outcomes here.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: One is that we get what you want, which is a terrible idea and will fail.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the other is it will get much worse than what you want.
• 0:16
  Hey,
• 0:16
  everyone,
• 0:16
  you're listening to a free preview of the Politics Podcast.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This week, what if Donald Trump is actually dying?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he probably isn't.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: We are on the bad timeline,
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: but it's surely worth contemplating,
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: especially after four years of Joe Biden death watch.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: What happens to MAGA?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: What happens to President Vance?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: What effect does it have on Democratic politics?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Does Gavin Newsom tweet about it in all caps?
• 0:42
  Then we'll talk about the new and immediately embattled
• 0:45
  Democratic Party Influencer Program.
• 0:47
  Is this an effective way for the party to compete for the
• 0:50
  public's attention and
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: improve its image?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Does transparency even matter anymore?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to hear the whole conversation,
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: you can upgrade your subscription to paid at politics.fm.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, everyone.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Politics Podcast.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Brian Boitler.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Matthew Glacius.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we're recording this Tuesday, September 2nd at 930 a.m.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Eastern Time.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently,
• 1:14
  the White House has scheduled something like like a proof of
• 1:17
  life event for Donald
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Trump for this afternoon.
• 1:22
  Trump like more or less went missing and hasn't done any public
• 1:24
  events in almost a week.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So first he first he was like actually not seen.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then he was like shuffling into cars and,
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: and golfing and was being photographed from a distance.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even think we have proof that he was golfing.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: He was in golf attire at golf.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: He went to the golf course.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: He was photographed heading there.
• 1:47
  And then they seem to have released some photos that were of
• 1:50
  him golfing actually
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: months ago,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: including like one where there were palm trees in the background.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it further raised questions.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: He hasn't spoken to the press,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: in days,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: but it's going to happen at the 2 p.m.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: announcement.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: We think.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're just going to wheel out.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: They wouldn't have to wheel.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe President Vance will stride out.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Very embarrassing for our recording schedule.
• 2:15
  I mean,
• 2:16
  because what the release says is that the president will make
• 2:19
  remarks at 2 p.m.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: If that is President Vance, it will be on our face.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: If we're going with the presumption that Trump is not dead,
• 2:28
  but perhaps was under the weather and they didn't want to
• 2:30
  discuss exactly what was
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: going on.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: it probably is that he got COVID,
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: but he couldn't get a jab because of Robert F.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Kennedy Jr.
• 2:40
  So he just drank some sewage water or whatever Maha says you
• 2:44
  should do if you get COVID.
• 2:45
  And now he's just feeling terrible because he didn't have
• 2:49
  standard of care medicine
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: in the United States.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually a good question.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Has he gotten any COVID boosters?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: my recollection is that when this was last,
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: the live question,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: they were transparent about it when he got the initial COVID shot.
• 3:03
  Obviously,
• 3:03
  they were transparent about it when he got COVID and went to
• 3:06
  Walter Reed.
• 3:08
  But then my recollection is that they started being real cagey
• 3:11
  about not saying one
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: way or another,
• 3:13
  which is the strong implication is that he continues to get
• 3:17
  COVID vaccines,
• 3:18
  even though he leads the political movement trying to
• 3:21
  discourage vaccination.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there was... These are the worst people in the fucking world.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: While Trump's been out of view,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: though,
• 3:30
  he did a truth social post that seemed like it wasn't really in
• 3:34
  his voice that was
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: we need to like...
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: He was saying we need to get a handle on this whole vaccine thing.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I thought that was really him.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because the CDC is being torn apart.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, it had some weird turns of phrase that weren't typical of his.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and also, it's just like it didn't pick a side.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was...
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: tweeted,
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: somebody on his team was annoyed that all this was happening because— Oh,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: yeah.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 3:59
  I think that they are finding that people are really unhappy
• 4:02
  that they can't just
• 4:03
  walk into a CVS and get a COVID shot like the flu shot because
• 4:06
  of dumb MAGA
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: politics and that they're on the losing side of that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I know that it's,
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: been flipped,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: turned upside down a hundred different ways,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: like—
• 4:18
  all of the bad things about COVID were basically Republicans
• 4:20
  fault and Democrats
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: basically did the best they could under terrible circumstances.
• 4:25
  And this has been retconned in people's mind that like
• 4:28
  Democrats fucked up COVID,
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: but really it was Trump.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, uh, and I don't agree with that at all.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, it makes me so upset when you say that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think like,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I really think that like you and other people like this,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: like need to get like some grip on like how aggravating is.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: the COVID policies of the Biden administration were.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know you found everything about that period very annoying.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: I did too.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was a pandemic.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: It really sucked.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 5:02
  I think that it has left the Republican Party of the view or of
• 5:05
  the instinct that
• 5:07
  anti-any kind of mitigation policy is always good politics and
• 5:12
  people will reward
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: you for not blah,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: blah.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think the lesson, one of the lessons of the
• 5:20
  from Trump to Biden is that it is much easier to assemble a
• 5:25
  coalition of people who
• 5:26
  are aggravated by the way the government is handling something
• 5:31
  like COVID than it
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: is to articulate your own handling.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: of how things should be done, right?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when Biden was running for president,
• 5:43
  he did a great job of making a lot of different stakeholders
• 5:46
  feel like he was gonna
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: do a way better job than Donald Trump.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: But once he had to actually start making specific calls,
• 5:54
  it was harder to make everyone who had voted for him agree with
• 5:58
  all of those calls
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: that he made.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then Trump was able to bring together
• 6:03
  a bunch of different people who were aggravated in different
• 6:05
  ways by different
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Biden administration calls.
• 6:07
  But like now you're in and you on the one hand have like real
• 6:11
  ideologues like
• 6:12
  Kennedy who want to like eliminate the American vaccination
• 6:15
  system and plenty of
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: other people.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most Republicans got vaccinated.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 6:23
  Like it's like and so and so he now has this this truth post
• 6:28
  where he is like,
• 6:31
  with the CDC being ripped apart over this question,
• 6:34
  I want the answer and I want it now.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And all this other stuff, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like he doesn't.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the answers are there.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, this is a well-studied thing at this point.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Look,
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I just,
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to concede just about everything,
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: but I do want the record to reflect that in 2020,
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: you had constant lying about COVID.
• 6:52
  Yeah.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, all kinds of bullshit all the time.
• 6:58
  Followed by four years of Biden where like calls around the
• 7:01
  edges about when and
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: where to mask and for how long annoyed some people.
• 7:05
  And now we're back in the Trump era and it's like pulling
• 7:08
  vaccines off the market.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just saying that the Biden approach was much,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: much,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: much sounder than the the the Trump sandwich bread.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I voted for.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's fine.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get back to Trump dying something more hopeful.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like,
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like this truth,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: this truth post,
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: to me it was,
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: who knows?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: You never know what's going on.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I would say it's Trump being indecisive.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: About something, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Which is normal.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: To an extent.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think about like his own administration's policies,
• 7:58
  where he's like seemingly trying to distance himself from the
• 8:01
  chaos that's being
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: unleashed at HHS without like actually doing anything.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: like this woman,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Susan Munares,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: right,
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: the CDC director who Kennedy picked out.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's a Trump appointee.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:16
  And like there's all kinds of conflicts between most and more
• 8:19
  on the food stuff
• 8:20
  than on the pharmaceutical end between like Kennedy's views and
• 8:25
  other stakeholders
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: in the kind of Trump administration.
• 8:28
  This is like the kind of thing where like an active and with it
• 8:31
  president is
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: supposed to be,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:34
  making decisions and not having like the firing of an agency
• 8:38
  head be sort of
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: attributed to the cabinet secretary.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so rather than like, like, did Donald Trump fire her?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yes.
• 8:47
  So I think people missed the significance of this because they
• 8:51
  tried to they tried
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: to like push her out by tweet from the H from HHS.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that would be like Kennedy firing the CDC director.
• 8:58
  And then she immediately lawyered up and was like,
• 9:00
  only the president can fire me.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the White House did not want to put Trump's name on that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: They said the White House has fired her.
• 9:06
  Like they were trying to set up a situation where if the
• 9:11
  politics of this like went
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: sideways for them,
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: which I think it basically did right away,
• 9:16
  Trump would be able to pull that thing that he always does
• 9:18
  where he's like,
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know anything about it.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's, you know, and it didn't work because.
• 9:23
  But also he was in a medically induced coma to treat his purple
• 9:26
  hand syndrome the whole time.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he legitimately didn't know.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know, you know?
• 9:32
  So I think that there is somebody smart at the White House who
• 9:35
  realizes that Robert
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: F.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Kennedy Jr.
• 9:39
  basically trying to collapse the pharmaceutical research
• 9:41
  industry and replace it
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: with random wellness influencer bullshit is actually losing politics,
• 9:46
  even though it plays much better online than just trusting
• 9:52
  experts and things like
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they're trying to keep Trump's hands clean of it, and it's just not—
• 9:57
  Not sustainable,
• 9:58
  given that the law essentially required Trump to make this
• 10:02
  decision.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to fire this person?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so that person, I guess, is gone.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I guess Trump eventually did fire her.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But now he needs to get this issue off of his plate again.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I read this tweet as being about,
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: is kicking it right back to CDC and Kennedy and like –
• 10:21
  Make it so that people can get their COVID shots without a
• 10:25
  hassle so that it
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: doesn't blow back on me.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of half expect a rollback.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: How are your mitochondria?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're distressed.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Constantly distressed.
• 10:40
  Okay,
• 10:40
  I mean,
• 10:41
  like,
• 10:42
  Trump may have mitochondrial distress of the ankles and of the
• 10:46
  palms.
• 10:47
  I think people think that his mitochondrial distress is causing
• 10:51
  him either
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: congestive heart failure or mini strokes,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like TIAs.
• 11:01
  Are there any other good theories about what's actually going
• 11:03
  on with him that they
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: are trying to keep him away from the press?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, he loves...
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Being the center of attention.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very weird for him to take six days like this away.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think he got strep throat.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he's just been feeling real sick and he sounds like garbage.
• 11:23
  I mean,
• 11:24
  but the thing is,
• 11:25
  there's nothing embarrassing or emasculating about strep
• 11:28
  throat.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like they could have just, if it were an explanation like that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 11:34
  They could have just said he doesn't feel good because he's got
• 11:36
  strep throat.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think if it were COVID,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think if it were COVID because of the dumb MAGA politics of COVID,
• 11:43
  they would not want to admit that Trump got COVID and that it
• 11:45
  had made him feel so
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: bad that he had to take six days.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you want a vaccine link, shingles.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's surely vaccinated for shingles, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how that works.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's got to be a noble.
• 11:59
  I know that the Biden administration made the shingles vaccine
• 12:01
  free for America's
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: heroic senior citizens.
• 12:04
  Yeah,
• 12:05
  but it's basically standard for everyone 50 and older,
• 12:09
  I thought,
• 12:09
  right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not 50 and older.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Don't call me old.
• 12:13
  I don't know anything about shingles,
• 12:15
  any kind of old man health problems.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: My mitochondria are firing on all cylinders.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: so obviously,
• 12:25
  like if Trump just let me tell you how I've been thinking about
• 12:29
  the like post Trump
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: moment.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: One is that he just like his heart explodes and he's gone.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I I feel like.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: there's both very little and a ton of ambiguity.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's not ambiguous what would happen is that J.D.
• 12:44
  Vance would become president and he would have to make some
• 12:47
  decisions about
• 12:49
  Whether to act like an heir to Trump or whether to do his own
• 12:52
  thing,
• 12:52
  right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would he clean house in the White House?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Would he keep Stephen Miller around?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those kinds of questions.
• 12:59
  And would he be able to hold the MAGA cinematic universe
• 13:03
  together so they don't
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: descend into civil war?
• 13:07
  Because there would be a huge power vacuum that lots of
• 13:09
  different people would want to fill.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a challenge.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't actually suspect that he's really up to it.
• 13:15
  But I think that at least like the things that would happen
• 13:19
  from Trump dying onward
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: within MAGA are kind of easy to anticipate.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: If it's like a clean, the ticker stops ticking.
• 13:28
  kind of thing but then there's a world where he becomes
• 13:31
  increasingly enfeebled um
• 13:33
  and that's the one where i feel like things could go totally
• 13:35
  off the rails because
• 13:36
  there's no like there's no ambiguity about what's supposed to
• 13:39
  happen if the
• 13:39
  president dies but if the president is increasingly sick over
• 13:42
  time if the president
• 13:44
  becomes disabled to some degree and it's unclear whether it's a
• 13:48
  permanent or
• 13:49
  temporary disability there's no i mean there are processes
• 13:52
  right there's a 25th
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: amendment process there's
• 13:55
  But there's no strict instruction about what you should do
• 13:59
  under what circumstances.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have like Donald Trump Jr.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: and Eric being like, no, he's still the king, right?
• 14:04
  Because versus Vance being like,
• 14:07
  oh,
• 14:07
  but we can't run the government with Trump.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I at least need to take over temporarily via this 25th Amendment process.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I do have to say, I mean, we recently did get –
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Something of a...
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: nobody wants to say this,
• 14:22
  but I kind of feel like diminished Biden ceding power de facto
• 14:29
  to a council of
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: senior White House officials,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: worked fine.
• 14:40
  Like the politics of it weren't good because he wasn't doing
• 14:44
  public appearances.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't defending his administration's policies in an interesting way.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: He wasn't...
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: getting out ahead of the curve on like relatively unimportant,
• 14:59
  but sort of politically explosive landmines scattered around
• 15:04
  the administrative
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: state.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: But like,
• 15:06
  you know- Do you just simply not believe Jake Sullivan and Tony
• 15:10
  Blinken and people
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: like that who say whatever his political enfeeblement was at the time,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: his inability to advocate for the administration publicly,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: blah,
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: blah.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: He was doing the job, I know, because I was-
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: carrying out his instructions?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you think that they're full of it or?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that all presidents have a limited calendar in their day.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: That in all administrations, not every decision goes to the president.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: That when foreign crises emerge,
• 15:37
  there is a tendency for those to edge out sort of
• 15:41
  run-of-the-mill domestic
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: political issues.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that all of those things happened with the Biden administration.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: to a larger degree than they had happened with Obama and Bill Clinton,
• 15:54
  who are the two other presidents who people I know have
• 15:58
  firsthand experience with
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: how their White Houses worked.
• 16:02
  And I just think part of the point of that is that there's
• 16:04
  never a hard line,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: you know what I mean,
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: around these things.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: No,
• 16:15
  but I do think that between every Republican saying this
• 16:18
  because it's what they're
• 16:18
  supposed to say and a lot of people kind of in the center and
• 16:23
  maybe even just
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: normie Democratic voters,
• 16:26
  they have come to believe that it was basically weekend at
• 16:29
  Bernie's for the last
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: year or so of the Biden presidency.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's why I'm saying like nobody wants to say this, but –
• 16:40
  It just seems to me that people have various dissatisfactions
• 16:44
  with the kind of a
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: substance of the Biden administration.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's easy to kind of connect that to.
• 16:57
  some of this other stuff if you want to,
• 16:59
  but we don't have good evidence that that's the case.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think the most striking thing, forget what Jake Sullivan says.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Read the Jake Tapper book.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know that the point of that book is to maximize the thesis.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Biden's age was a big problem.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get to like brass tacks,
• 17:25
  like what substantive outcomes does any of like Tapper's
• 17:30
  sources attribute to
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Biden's age?
• 17:34
  Like the best you have is speculation from Michael Bennett that
• 17:41
  this slowness of
• 17:42
  the decision making on asylum seekers was due to the
• 17:46
  president's like limited hours
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: in the day.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably right, but it's not that clear.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's all they've got, right?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And like they were looking for it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with a lot of reporting,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: not just their reporting on this topic,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: but with any kind of reporting,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: like you need to read it a little bit against the grain,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what is the thesis here?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's the story that the journalists are after?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like, what did they not come up with?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 18:18
  and like what they did not come up with in there is a clear cut
• 18:22
  example of somebody
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: being like,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had this like amazing proposal to do something,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: something.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, like there was like a breakdown, right?
• 18:34
  It's like you have various sort of embarrassing anecdotes from
• 18:39
  what are really
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: political meet and greets.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: and you know,
• 18:43
  it's possible that there's like big stuff on substance that
• 18:46
  they just didn't get
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: the goods on,
• 18:48
  but like they were clearly looking for the goods and they did
• 18:50
  not have really
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: clear,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: evidence of things.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that this is exculpatory or not.
• 18:59
  Like one of the main things that you would say with the whole
• 19:02
  Biden White House is
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: that the gears turn pretty slowly on making certain kinds of decisions.
• 19:07
  But it's also true that if you ask people who were working in
• 19:10
  the White House in
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: 2015,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: like if you ask them in 2015,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: like what do you think about Joe Biden as a potential president?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like this was one of the main criticisms that they had to offer of him.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: 10 years ago, was that like, he didn't run crisp orderly meetings.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't like to make decisions, et cetera, et cetera.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Similarly with Trump, right?
• 19:32
  Like if I was to tell you that like Donald Trump has not
• 19:38
  assembled a meeting of his
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: senior advisors in which they try to square the circle between,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: like they want the Fed to cut interest rates,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: But inflation is up.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So substantively,
• 19:51
  the reason the Fed might want to ignore the uptick in inflation
• 19:55
  and cut interest
• 19:56
  rates anyway is that there's good reason to think that the
• 19:59
  increase in inflation is
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: due to the tariffs.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a non-monetary thing that the Fed ought to ignore.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: A responsible president would be like,
• 20:09
  trying to reconcile their monetary policy preferences with
• 20:13
  Scott Bessett's claim
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: that the tariffs aren't inflationary,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: like it doesn't make sense,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 20:18
  Do I think that the reason Trump is not getting his people to
• 20:21
  have a coherent
• 20:22
  message on this is because he's too old or because he's like a
• 20:25
  lying piece of shit
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: or like he just doesn't give a damn about,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: it's hard to tell,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 20:30
  Like everything Trump is doing is completely continuous with
• 20:33
  everything we've ever
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: seen of Trump.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: throughout his whole career.
• 20:37
  There's no like – Do you think this is insulating him from
• 20:41
  press inquiry about
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: what's actually going on with his health?
• 20:43
  Like do you get the sense that there are Jake Tappers and Alex
• 20:46
  Thompsons like
• 20:47
  trying to get to the bottom of what's – like did the president
• 20:50
  have a bunch of mini
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: strokes and they're hiding?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's actually a very important question.
• 20:54
  I think it is notable that the volume of leaking and just like
• 20:59
  juicy reportage is
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: way down compared to where it was eight years ago.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: People are way more scared, I think.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but the senior aides are more tight-lipped.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like about whatever, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this was also a noteworthy aspect of the Biden administration, right?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: We heard way less from Biden appointees about like,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: what's up,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: than we did with the Obama administration,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like not age stuff, right?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Just like policy debates.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And Trump was like—Trump 1 was like a bleak catastrophe, right?
• 21:37
  And so if you were seeing the kind of reporting that we were
• 21:40
  seeing in Trump 1,
• 21:42
  about like behind the scenes arguments about questions of
• 21:45
  policy substance,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: then I would feel very confident.
• 21:48
  Like if there was some like giant purple hand to cover up,
• 21:51
  like we would be hearing about that.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: But this time they have gotten their information locked down, right?
• 21:58
  Like we are not getting insight into how the agriculture
• 22:03
  department and DHS are
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: navigating conflicts about,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:10
  worksite raids at meatpacking plants versus agribusiness
• 22:14
  interests and inflation.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, it's just like they've got their leaks.
• 22:19
  You know,
• 22:19
  I feel like I feel like I feel like you're correct about that
• 22:23
  now.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that when Elon Musk was basically running the show,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: a period which we've all but forgotten,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: but which was quite significant.
• 22:30
  There was a lot of leaking about,
• 22:32
  you know,
• 22:33
  fights between Elon Musk and Besson and Elon Musk.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what's his name?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: former Wisconsin house dude who runs the transportation department.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Scott Duffy.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Used to be in real world.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's got Sean Duffy.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sean, we suck at this politics podcasting game.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's the, that's the, that's the age.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or possibly the vaccine.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's just our mitochondria slowing down, getting all sluggish.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:01
  Like all like that,
• 23:02
  there was a lot of leaking for those first,
• 23:04
  whatever it was,
• 23:04
  120 days.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it slowed way down.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: likely suggestive of Elon Musk being a big fucking leaker.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I have much less clarity about what,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: the only clue I have as to,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: whether to put any stock in all the speculation is that J.D.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Vance is acting weird about it, right?
• 23:27
  Like,
• 23:28
  he is picking occasions to be like,
• 23:31
  the president is obviously in perfect health.
• 23:33
  However,
• 23:33
  if something happens,
• 23:34
  I've had 200 days of on-the-job training,
• 23:36
  you know?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
• 23:39
  OK,
• 23:40
  so I mean,
• 23:41
  I want to hear your thoughts,
• 23:42
  though,
• 23:43
  about like what I mean.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 23:47
  maybe maybe the best way to like get people to think about like
• 23:51
  life after Trump,
• 23:52
  if something were to happen to Trump while he was still in
• 23:54
  office is to think about
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: like what the public reaction to it would be,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: because like I think.
• 24:04
  There's a good chance that MAGA descends into civil war and
• 24:07
  that there would be a
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: big opportunity,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: for Democrats to kind of nurture that conflict within MAGA.
• 24:15
  But that there would also just end up being a bunch of
• 24:18
  infighting among Democrats,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: because like if it happens –
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like Wednesday, Thursday, whatever.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like every major city in America is going to erupt in celebration, right?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's going to be a huge party.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: People are going to crack champagne bottles open in the streets.
• 24:33
  Like I would – I mean this is one of these things where like we
• 24:37
  all know what's
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: going to happen,
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 24:38
  Which is that like some liberals will celebrate the death of
• 24:43
  Donald Trump.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And conservatives will criticize the liberals.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 24:49
  and that's like MAGA might go into cities and just try to shoot
• 24:53
  people for being
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: insensitive.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 24:54
  But I'm saying just like,
• 24:56
  there's like just like a very predictable story that's going to
• 24:59
  play.
• 24:59
  We're like initially safe blue seat Democratic Party
• 25:04
  politicians are like not going
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: to do any like crazy over the top,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: like ding dong,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: the witch is dead type stuff.
• 25:14
  But grassroots,
• 25:16
  you know,
• 25:17
  Democrats will because people like really hate Donald Trump,
• 25:20
  right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they say, oh my God, like this is so incredible.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And conservatives will attack the people who are doing that.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody probably,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: frontline elected officials,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: somebody from Trump district will be like,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: guys,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: like this is pretty appropriate,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: inappropriate.
• 25:37
  At which point,
• 25:38
  like the resistance pundits are going to yell at that guy.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Then some of your,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: your Newsoms,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: your Pritzkers,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: your like big blue state politicians are going to be like,
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: fuck Trump,
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: man,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: and we're going to descend into this just like incredibly predictable.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: cycle of infighting and meditakes and meditakes and meditakes.
• 26:02
  And it's like,
• 26:03
  this is why you're right about,
• 26:05
  you're right about all of this.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: The,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: the,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: the thing to want is for the,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: for like the,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: the leadership and frontline Democrats to just,
• 26:15
  Except right now that the demand of them is not going to be to
• 26:19
  hagiographize Trump
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: after he dies,
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I pulled something up, an oldie but goodie.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: It says, conventions around dead people are ridiculous.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: The world outlook is slightly improved with at Andrew Breitbart dead.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: You remember that?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, ferocious backlash.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is just why I...
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Your point about this was correct, I think.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: we can't play twice,
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: but I would not advise any elected Democrats to pop champagne bottles,
• 26:53
  but I would advise them to be real about the fact that this is
• 26:56
  no great tragedy,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't attend his funeral.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Don't.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 27:01
  filibuster every Republican proposal to name shit after him
• 27:04
  because they are going
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: to try to name everything after him.
• 27:06
  Like,
• 27:07
  go after Vance and all vulnerable Republicans for covering up
• 27:11
  his medical condition.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they left America vulnerable by wrapping up a half corpse.
• 27:15
  Part of the way this goes,
• 27:17
  because,
• 27:17
  like,
• 27:17
  everything is just this kind of,
• 27:19
  like,
• 27:19
  endless war.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, whatever it is that is done, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like...
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: People will say it's not enough.
• 27:32
  It's like you are going to end up wanting to ask something of
• 27:37
  congressional
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: leadership that they won't want to do.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just not go to his funeral.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just not attend.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not dignify the dude.
• 27:46
  And I don't think it's just because our egos about how Trump
• 27:51
  has abused us should
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: make us bitter and resentful toward him,
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: although that's definitely true.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like—
• 28:02
  A reminder to people of the United States that the way Donald
• 28:06
  Trump has carried
• 28:07
  himself for the last 10 years is toxic and corrosive and should
• 28:13
  not be celebrated.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I think.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Death is how you unplug that, right?
• 28:22
  And we should not be like,
• 28:23
  well,
• 28:23
  it's a tragedy that he's gone because it's not.
• 28:26
  I think that there needs to be like Ken Martin instead of
• 28:31
  whatever the fuck he's been doing.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's been so bad, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: He needs to appoint an emergency commission, right?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's like Ilhan Omar, Jared Golden, J.B.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Pritzker,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Alyssa Slotkin,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: and fucking,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know who,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: somebody from like Nevada,
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oregon,
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: whatever.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they just like,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: they got to go in a basement and they need to decide,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: what's the plan going to be if Trump dies?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: That would be better than just like winging it because I assume- No,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: but this is what I mean.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there is,
• 29:14
  and I think that there's a tendency in democratic politics
• 29:18
  right now to look at
• 29:20
  things that are like annoying and foreseeable and foreseeably
• 29:25
  annoying and to just
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: sort of like get like preemptively annoyed about them.
• 29:30
  And like decide you don't want to think about it because it's
• 29:34
  so annoying that this
• 29:35
  is going to happen rather than to like really say to the
• 29:38
  different stakeholders
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: here,
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: like we want this to end with you guys not sniping at each other.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that means we're going to have to come up with something, right?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Something A for Jared to say, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: that leftists will be very discouraged from pouncing on him about,
• 29:59
  and something for Ilhan to say that Jared will agree not to
• 30:03
  triangulate against.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to say the exact same thing,
• 30:10
  but there's going to be a range that you've all agreed that you
• 30:14
  can live with,
• 30:15
  and then a leadership statement that you have all agreed you
• 30:18
  can live with as the
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: leadership statement.
• 30:20
  And we're going to not litigate this in real time,
• 30:26
  because is Trump going to die next week?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is Trump going to die over the next three years?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Also probably not, but like the odds are not that low.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: They got to be close to 40 percent.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know.
• 30:40
  Like old man dies within a three year span is more likely than
• 30:44
  say like Democrats
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: take the Senate in the midterms.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know what I mean?
• 30:48
  Like really,
• 30:49
  like it's likely enough that it's like really worth planning
• 30:54
  for,
• 30:54
  right?
• 30:55
  Particularly because like these things don't actually get to
• 30:59
  like the core,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: policy stakes of an argument,
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like important to try not to have everything –
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, into.
• 31:12
  I think I think that the person who really like it's not you
• 31:16
  who who who needs
• 31:17
  Trump to live to avoid the annoying recriminations that will
• 31:21
  follow when Democrats
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: march into the like,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: the memorial service,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: not knowing what their message is.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I think it's Gavin Newsom.
• 31:32
  Without Trump,
• 31:33
  Newsom loses the fresh appeal and the strangely respect he's
• 31:39
  developed.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because that whole thing works with Trump as a foil temperamentally.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't necessarily work if J.D.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Vance takes over and does a more polished version of Trumpism.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is good.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas...
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't get a chance to talk about it, but J.B.
• 32:02
  Pritzker had some words for Trump trying to discourage him from
• 32:07
  sending National
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Guard into Chicago.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so far, I think it's been effective.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they were very strong, but they were very non-Nusom-like.
• 32:18
  He's not like holding up a mirror to Trump so that people can
• 32:22
  see how ridiculous
• 32:24
  Trump's behavior is and how weird it is that we've all become
• 32:27
  acclimated to it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: He just basically said, don't come here.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do come here and you hurt my people,
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I will chase you to the end of the earth for the rest of my life.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that...
• 32:39
  is an approach that you can take against Trump and you can take
• 32:42
  against Vance if
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Vance has to take over.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because the question for Vance is,
• 32:46
  are you going to just continue the sort of despotic policies
• 32:52
  that you're inheriting
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: from your dead boss?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if the answer is yes, then you have an enemy in me.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if the answer is no, then maybe we can rekindle things.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: We can figure out a way to work together cooperatively.
• 33:07
  I don't know what Newsom has to offer in either of those
• 33:10
  scenarios because what
• 33:13
  he's good at is taking pot shots at mentally disordered old
• 33:20
  dying man and not
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: necessarily at doing partisan war against the J.D.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Vance administration.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's definitely true.
• 33:31
  I mean,
• 33:33
  you know,
• 33:34
  Nearsim has had like,
• 33:35
  just like a very funny bit going,
• 33:37
  I think.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Me too, I enjoy it.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't get me wrong.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: About this stuff,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: in just like a super literal,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: like throwing some red meat to the base.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel in like in a lot of ways, I also do two things.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: One is that like what he's doing on the gerrymandering thing is correct.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like admirable.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to actually get it done.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 34:06
  I think the polling on the ballot initiative that he's going to
• 34:10
  need to pass is
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: OK,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: but it's not.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was like 59 percent or something.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: but that's not good,
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: actually,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: because these things,
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: initiatives tend to underperform their polling.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's something sui generis about this.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm just saying it's not trivial to get it done.
• 34:29
  It's different from the Texas situation where it's very easy
• 34:34
  for Abbott to get the maps redrawn.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Newsom is needing to put a lot of work into this.
• 34:38
  And I think the shtick he's doing is sort of helping with that
• 34:42
  because by doing
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: such sort of low content red meat for partisans,
• 34:49
  he is defining in a national audience's mind that like Gavin
• 34:53
  Newsom is doing the
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: right thing here.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: It should convey down to the large majority of Clinton,
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Biden,
• 35:00
  Harris voters who make up the California electorate and should
• 35:04
  get it done.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also created,
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: this kind of like Potemkin presidential candidacy around Newsom,
• 35:14
  where Newsom has like exactly the problems as a national
• 35:22
  politician that Kamala
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Harris had.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think any statewide elected official,
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: say from California,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: would end up having,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: which is that in the minds of insurgent leftists,
• 35:34
  He's an establishment politician because he is an establishment
• 35:39
  politician who is
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: like comfortable with the California business community,
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: has not like smashed oligarchy,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: et cetera.
• 35:47
  But his record on public policy substance is also very left
• 35:51
  wing because he's the
• 35:53
  governor of a state that's just like way to the left of the
• 35:57
  national median.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that's just like a tough thing.
• 36:02
  It's a great way to become a nationally prominent Democrat
• 36:06
  because California is
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: such a large state.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: It has such a good base of donors, a pretty good base of media people.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're in the news a lot.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: But, like, the fundamentals are just, like, not good.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the funny tweets don't change that.
• 36:21
  And the thought experiment of,
• 36:23
  like,
• 36:23
  what becomes of this whole Newsom shtick if it's J.D.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Vance, who, you know, has a distinctive...
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: But he doesn't have like weird mannerisms like Trump does.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Except when he's fucking the couch.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 36:40
  He's like a normal bearded millennial blogger guy,
• 36:43
  you know,
• 36:45
  like you or me.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I just don't know.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I feel like it would kind of go up in smoke.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have a hard time imagining Vance as president because he's,
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: as an ideologist,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: he just dances with the one with Brungham,
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's swinging all over the place, depending on who his patron is.
• 37:03
  Currently,
• 37:04
  it's Trump,
• 37:04
  but I think it defaults to Peter Thiel if Trump dies.
• 37:08
  But Vance doesn't have the charisma or the following to
• 37:12
  implement Theolism in any
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: kind of successful way.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like...
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: He either has to change tax or it's all going to come to pieces.
• 37:19
  And I actually,
• 37:20
  part of me like looks forward to him struggling with all of
• 37:22
  that.
• 37:24
  But I like,
• 37:25
  I don't think that the,
• 37:27
  you know,
• 37:29
  Newsom would have to reinvent himself yet again.
• 37:31
  And he keeps doing this in order to find a good,
• 37:34
  like,
• 37:35
  like a reasonable toehold on attention.
• 37:38
  And it's,
• 37:39
  which he's done with the redistricting and the like tweeting
• 37:41
  like Trump shtick.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that ceases to be effective,
• 37:46
  and he's got to come up with a third thing or a fourth thing or
• 37:48
  whatever it is.
• 37:49
  And I will say that I appreciate the effort he's put into the
• 37:55
  redistricting thing,
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm glad he is trolling Trump in this way.
• 37:58
  But of the three likely 2028 candidates who are leaning into
• 38:05
  the fighting Democrat model –
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: which would be him,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Pritzker,
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: and Beto O'Rourke,
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: to the extent that Beto's,
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: thinking of running for president.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Newsom is the last,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: for me,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: on that list,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: is,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 38:17
  at the bottom of the ones who I'd want to see walk away with
• 38:20
  the nomination,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: and who I trust to actually,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: is,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: like...
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is he actually angry and fighting because he's angry,
• 38:28
  or is he leaning into an angry shtick because he knows that's
• 38:31
  what rubes like me
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: want to see right now?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't say I know the answer, but I do believe that J.D.
• 38:38
  Pritzker just bleeds disgust for Trumpism,
• 38:41
  and I know that Beto O'Rourke does.
• 38:44
  And I feel like in closer to the action competition,
• 38:50
  when there's an actual primary happening—
• 38:53
  the Newsom thing will become pretty transparent and tattered
• 38:59
  relative to those two.
• 39:00
  And that's all assuming Trump lives long enough for him to
• 39:03
  carry this shtick on for
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: another year and a half or whatever.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: I just think,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there's a real gap in,
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to put this,
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Most Democrats have just,
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: really want to be in the 2017 vibe where Trump became president,
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: but like got fewer votes than Hillary Clinton.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a lot of third party voting.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you could be like, some abhorrence has occurred.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we need to cast it out.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like Pritzker speaks very well to that sentiment,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: to be clear,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: is the sentiment of the majority of the people of Illinois,
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: which is like one reason that he speaks very well to it.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that across multiple election campaigns,
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: like a bad dynamic has crept up on the Democrats,
• 40:27
  whereby most people formed the view that they had like a big
• 40:34
  problem with the way
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: the Democratic Party was governing the country.
• 40:39
  Which isn't to say that they all love Trump or will never
• 40:43
  accept an alternative to
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Trump,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: but I think are waiting for somebody who through some means or other,
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: credibly signifies some kind of differentness.
• 40:59
  And the problem with being a governor of a large blue state
• 41:03
  like Illinois or
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: California is that just as Hillary to Biden to Kamala was a kind of like
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: establishment,
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: establishment,
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: establishment,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: that like California,
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Illinois,
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: these like continuous blue state trifectas are like more of the same,
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: more of the same,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: more of the same.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: See,
• 41:25
  I think that so much of what you're describing had to do with
• 41:28
  the peculiarities of
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Joe Biden,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: the ones that we discussed at the beginning of this conversation,
• 41:32
  and that being Pritzker or O'Rourke or even Newsom helps
• 41:37
  because you weren't part
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: of the administration.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: You weren't in Congress at the time.
• 41:40
  You weren't expected to have eyes on what was going on with the
• 41:44
  ancient-ass
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Democrat or his ancient-ass policies.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean not part of the administration is like definitely helps –
• 41:53
  I still don't think that presiding over a big blue state is
• 41:59
  different enough.
• 42:03
  I think it is a question of what people were upset about and
• 42:08
  whether they,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: even if it was wrongly,
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: even if they wrongly associated what they were upset about with
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Things that they associate with democratic politics.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's just like inflation was high and Joe Biden was old,
• 42:22
  then I don't think that there's all that much for somebody like
• 42:25
  Pritzker to worry
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: about.
• 42:26
  Like,
• 42:27
  obviously,
• 42:27
  he's going to have to defend,
• 42:29
  you know,
• 42:29
  what like his record.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's going to be, you know.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: vaguely racist potshots about Chicago.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: I stipulate to all of that.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just think that J.B.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Pritzker's too much continuity with Biden does not ring correct to me.
• 42:46
  I mean,
• 42:46
  it's not continuity with Biden,
• 42:48
  but it's like continuity with itself.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, I don't think we're going to turn America into Illinois.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: what I would like to see,
• 42:57
  there was a moment after Chuck Schumer bailed out Trump in
• 43:01
  March where Josh
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Shapiro,
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think he went on a Bill Maher show,
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: and was like,
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: that was a misuse of leverage.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: We had more leverage than,
• 43:12
  and I thought that he made a really good case on that program
• 43:15
  and that it,
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: to me,
• 43:17
  suggested that he might be entering the arena a little bit to
• 43:22
  punch against Trump.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And he has not done that.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Wes Moore has also,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: he's starting to a little bit,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: but like if you've got Pritzker and Newsom who are like fully gloves off,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: then you've got Wes Moore and Josh Shapiro who are a bit more gloves on.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got like Gretchen Whitmer who's just like,
• 43:41
  I'm going to work with Trump as much as I possibly fucking can
• 43:44
  because I like
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Donald Trump and want him to be president some more.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that
• 43:53
  They are going to be able to compete against – like if they are
• 44:01
  going to win the
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: primary,
• 44:03
  it's going to be because like the fighting Democrats lane has
• 44:06
  three people in it.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not because- Oh,
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: listen,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: to be clear,
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: as always,
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there are two plausible outcomes here.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: One is that we get what you want, which is a terrible idea and will fail.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the other is it will get much worse than what you want.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that there is any chance.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's on the radar,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: the Democratic Party right now,
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: to do what they ought to be doing on anything.
• 44:30
  And that all the hopes for the Democratic Party electorally at
• 44:34
  this point are just
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: like hope the economy gets worse.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: What would you like to see Josh Shapiro doing right now?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Hiding?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is the authentic views of Democrats.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: That they ought to take a stand against Donald Trump?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's very unpopular.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not really.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's pretty unpopular.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: He's more popular than he was in his first term.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: He was the most unpopular president ever.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know what I think?
• 45:05
  I think that Democrats ought to become a lot more conservative
• 45:09
  on a lot of
• 45:10
  different policy issues simultaneously and maybe a bit more
• 45:13
  left wing on Israel and
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: also yell about how Trump is bad.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I don't think they're going to do any of that stuff.
• 45:19
  But like,
• 45:19
  yeah,
• 45:21
  like at least Newsom and Pritzker are doing one of the things
• 45:25
  you want.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe two of the things you want, actually.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe one.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: if Newsom hadn't had like his whole prior career,
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think like what he's done over the last,
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: three months is like pretty savvy,
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: smart guy.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just like, you know,
• 45:50
  There's something very practiced about everything he says that
• 45:52
  drives me a little nuts.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's these polls.
• 45:56
  So it's like it used to be the case that like conservatives
• 45:59
  outnumbered liberals by
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: a large amount in the electorate.
• 46:03
  So Democrats were always behind the eight ball and needed to
• 46:05
  win like overwhelming
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: majorities with moderates.
• 46:08
  The number of liberals has grown enough such that now most
• 46:12
  Democrats are liberals,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: which didn't used to be the case.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: So like you can't win as a moderate in a national democratic primary,
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: but also conservatives still massively outnumber liberals in the national
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: electorate.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we're just going to lose.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: So this is why I'm pinning my hopes on,
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Purple Hand dying,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: that Vance just not being able to hold together.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell if you want Trump to die or not.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: You started by saying that he needs to stay alive.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'll find it annoying, but it's better for America.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're back to 2011.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew Breitbart dying was good for the world.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: The Matt Iglesias I became friends with.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what's he had in the Nate Silver average?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: 44 approved, 51 disapproved.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, those are weak, but they're not.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're not that weak.
• 47:04
  I wish that they had realized that this was sort of the
• 47:06
  skeleton key to everything.
• 47:08
  But the thing that has always been true about Trump's numbers
• 47:11
  is that while he's
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: never been popular,
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: he edges into like not catastrophically unpopular territory.
• 47:16
  But the ranks of people who disapprove of him are almost always
• 47:21
  over 50 percent and
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: almost 100 percent of those people despise him.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas on the flip side- Kind of.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just honestly feel like this is like what we talk about all the time.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's what they say.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: But just like see how they react to anyone who has like-
• 47:39
  Read what people say about me all day,
• 47:42
  every day,
• 47:42
  like influential people,
• 47:44
  right?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: it's not that like,
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 47:46
  Matt Iglesias loves Donald Trump and wants Donald Trump to be
• 47:50
  president and thinks
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: that the Donald Trump presidency is incredible.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's disagreement about questions of public policy substance.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like Democrats both really hate Donald Trump very sincerely,
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: very sincerely think he's a fascist,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: very sincerely think he's destroying the country.
• 48:05
  And also have just like zero tolerance for any level of
• 48:11
  deviation on any question
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: of public policy for the sake of winning elections.
• 48:15
  So you end up in this Newsom or AOC dichotomy of like two
• 48:20
  people who won't do very well.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's bad.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: My mitochondria are very distressed.
• 48:28
  I think I'd rather be in the party where like 51% of the
• 48:31
  country hates the other
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: leader than in the one where 25% of the,
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: country loves him.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Look,
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: here's what's going to happen is that Chorus is going to put...
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: we got to take an ad break.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about this because I think this is relevant to this.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is relevant,
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 48:49
  although I'm going to let you give the rundown because we'll do
• 48:55
  that on the other
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: side.
• 48:56
  If you want to hear us talk about Democratic Party propaganda
• 48:59
  and why we didn't get
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: any of that money,
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: go to politics.fm and upgrade your subscription.