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97 - Dos and don'ts of writing retreats · Story Magic

2:28
Rachel: Hey, writers.
2:28
Rachel: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
2:32
Emily: I'm Emily.
2:33
Rachel: And I'm Rachel.
2:34
Emily: And today we are talking about Writing retreat.
2:39
Rachel: Writing retreat.
2:40
Emily: Oh, man, I love a good retreat.
2:42
Emily: We need to do another one.
2:44
Rachel: We do.
2:45
Rachel: Yes.
2:46
Emily: But this one comes from Tenacious Writing.
2:49
Emily: We.
2:50
Emily: We do a weekly QA in our Slack channel, and people can submit questions about anything writing related, and we answer them on Thursdays.
2:59
Emily: It's always so fun.
3:00
Emily: So anyway, a few weeks ago, somebody asked.
3:02
Emily: They were going on a. A writing retreat.
3:04
Emily: Their first maybe.
3:06
Rachel: Yeah. Their.
3:07
Emily: Doesn't matter.
3:07
Emily: No, not that they were not the first, but they were going on a writing retreat.
3:10
Rachel: Yes.
3:11
Emily: And they were like, how do I make the most of it?
3:13
Emily: How do I make sure you know that I'm making the most of this time?
3:17
Emily: And we just had such a beautiful dialogue in Tenacious Writing with, you know, other members were chiming in, and we were giving our insights, and we just thought it would be a good thing to chat with everybody about, because I think writing retreats can be one of those things where you're like, oh, I have 48 hours to do nothing.
3:34
Emily: Nothing but write.
3:35
Rachel: Exactly.
3:36
Emily: And then previous me would get so discouraged.
3:41
Rachel: Yes.
3:42
Emily: Halfway through the retreat.
3:44
Rachel: Yeah. Well, this question definitely had a little bit of, like, productivity emphasis.
3:49
Rachel: How do I do the most?
3:51
Rachel: How do I make the most of it?
3:51
Rachel: How do I make sure that this is productive?
3:57
Rachel: You know, not that that's exactly what.
3:58
Rachel: What this person asked, but, like, I think that's a very common approach to retreats, is like, how does.
4:07
Rachel: How do I do everything that I want to do?
4:11
Rachel: How does it.
4:11
Rachel: How can I, like, knock this time out of the park and just be, like, the most productive version of myself ever?
4:19
Rachel: And I, like, that feels like such a great place to start.
4:24
Emily: Yeah.
4:24
Rachel: Because if you're new to the podcast, we do not overemphasize productivity.
4:31
Rachel: If you've been here for a while, you're gonna understand what I'm about to say, which is, like, even if you did nothing on that writing retreat, it was still a good time.
4:40
Rachel: Like, it was still.
4:41
Rachel: You made the most of it.
4:42
Emily: It was still productive.
4:44
Rachel: It was still productive.
4:45
Rachel: Yeah.
4:47
Rachel: Because I think people, like, come to retreats thinking, I have time.
4:51
Rachel: I don't have any other responsibilities.
4:53
Rachel: How much can I get done?
4:54
Rachel: And when you're setting.
4:56
Rachel: When you're setting the whole retreat up with this expectation of, like, I'm gonna do the most, I just feel like you're instantly shooting yourself in the foot of like, you're not gonna do as much as you hope you could do.
5:07
Rachel: And that's also, to me, like, not what the purpose of a retreat is.
5:12
Rachel: I think like, retreats are about rest and about like, getting your brain going and about like leaning into what feels good and like giving yourself lots of time to focus, but like, also lots of time to let your mind wander and lots of time to like, take naps and read and like, it's really a time for me to like, refill the well.
5:36
Rachel: So I think there's like some do's for writing retreats and I think there's like some don'ts for writing retreats.
5:43
Rachel: And my first don't is like, don't overemphasize like a productivity goal, which word count is usually, you know, the tip top.
5:52
Rachel: I want to write 10,000 words a day.
5:55
Rachel: That's just not going to happen.
5:56
Rachel: Like for 99% of us, that's.
5:58
Rachel: That's not gonna happen or it's not sustainable.
6:01
Rachel: Like you might do it on your writing retreat and then you come home and you're just so burnt out because when you were resting, you were like sprinting super hard and you get home and you're like, on empty.
6:11
Rachel: Like I. To me, writing retreats are about resetting, refilling, so that when you get home, you're energized.
6:18
Emily: You know, you have like, clarity of vision and like.
6:20
Emily: Yeah, the energy to do it.
6:22
Emily: 100%.
6:23
Emily: I think that's a really, really good way to look at it.
6:28
Emily: I feel like the thing that always happens for me is I'm so, so, so excited to go on my writing retreat.
6:33
Emily: And then the second I am childless and alone, I crashed.
6:41
Emily: I crashed so hard.
6:43
Rachel: Yeah.
6:45
Emily: And so I have like, now I understand to expect that even when I didn't have a child, like, like, I, you know, we've.
6:53
Emily: You all know us so well by now, but.
6:55
Rachel: Right.
6:56
Emily: You know, I was in the hustle trenches, so I was like, burnt out.
7:00
Emily: And so whenever I would have, you know, a chance to be alone and like work on my story, I would just, I would just crash.
7:08
Emily: And I needed to like, pick myself back up and like, slowly get back into it.
7:12
Emily: And.
7:13
Emily: And if I, you know, the times when that happened and I just got frustrated, frustrated with myself.
7:17
Emily: It was like I just wasted the whole retreat because from the get go, I felt like I had failed somehow.
7:23
Rachel: Yes. Yeah.
7:24
Emily: Um, and then I just had like, nasty shame energy that didn't let me pick myself back up.
7:30
Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. I think, like, the shame is really debilitating.
7:35
Rachel: But if you can approach it from, like, what's going to happen is going to happen, and I'm going to treat this, like, I'm gonna treat this as a way to, like, take care of myself.
7:49
Rachel: I feel like you approach it a lot differently, and it sets you up for, like, a whole different level of success.
7:56
Rachel: Yeah, I, I, I've done, like, maybe three or four now, and I don't think I've ever done one fully alone.
8:03
Rachel: So I'm like, I've done one with you, which was a retreat slash work event, you know?
8:10
Rachel: But, like, I've done two with Amelia.
8:13
Rachel: Like, my writing buddy, I've done.
8:16
Rachel: I can't remember having done one before I had Rose.
8:19
Emily: I remember the.
8:21
Emily: I remember the first time you got a hotel away.
8:25
Emily: Away from Rose.
8:27
Rachel: Yeah. Rose was.
8:28
Rachel: Rose was almost a year old.
8:30
Rachel: I got a hotel and I wanted to write, and I, I didn't.
8:35
Rachel: I don't think I wrote it.
8:36
Rachel: I couldn't.
8:37
Rachel: I was so tired.
8:39
Rachel: I read, like, four books, and I did not leave the hotel room all weekend.
8:42
Rachel: And I ordered doordash, like, twice a day every day.
8:45
Rachel: Like, and it was like, two or three days of that.
8:47
Rachel: And then I got home.
8:48
Rachel: Yeah. Because I wrote a post about this.
8:50
Rachel: I got home and Nicole asked me.
8:53
Rachel: Nicole's our business coach.
8:55
Rachel: Nicole asked me, how was your retreat?
8:56
Rachel: And I just started crying.
8:59
Rachel: I just started crying.
9:00
Rachel: Cause I was like, I didn't do anything.
9:03
Rachel: She was like, oh, honey, you're so burnt out.
9:05
Rachel: I was like, yeah, I'm so tired.
9:08
Rachel: And I don't even remember, like, really being able to sleep that much.
9:12
Rachel: Like, I think I was so stressed out about, like, I'm here.
9:16
Rachel: I have to make it worthwhile, that everything I did didn't feel worthwhile.
9:23
Rachel: And I was, like, counting down the minutes, like, every moment, and then feeling like I was wasting time, but not, like, all I wanted to do was just lay in bed.
9:34
Rachel: I remember that now.
9:36
Emily: Yeah. And I think around that maybe, like, slightly after that, I got that tiny house.
9:42
Rachel: Yeah.
9:42
Emily: I remember when you did that for two nights.
9:44
Emily: And I was like, I'm gonna write so much.
9:47
Emily: And I think I was plotting.
9:50
Emily: I think I was plotting.
9:51
Emily: And for me, like, plotting never feels like enough.
9:54
Rachel: Yeah.
9:54
Emily: Like, I, Like, I. Because you're just, like, spinning your wheels, trying to figure out how to get know.
9:59
Emily: Trying to get out of the rut, trying to figure out how to get the plot threads.
10:01
Emily: And it's like, I made so much progress in clarity of vision for my story.
10:05
Emily: But it didn't feel like it.
10:07
Emily: And I remember, like, cuz I. Cuz I've always told myself, like, oh, I can plot and revise all day, but I can only.
10:13
Emily: I can only draft for a couple of hours.
10:14
Emily: And I feel like that's.
10:15
Emily: That's still mostly true.
10:16
Emily: I could do a lot of hours.
10:18
Emily: Whether that's a good or bad thing, whether, you know, it's going to exhaust me or not.
10:21
Emily: This is a different question.
10:23
Emily: But, like, I. I remember I, like, plotted all day, and I was making all this progress, and then I, like, hit a wall, you know, as you do when you work for too long.
10:31
Rachel: Yeah.
10:31
Emily: And. And I hit a wall, and I couldn't, like, solve some problems, so I opened.
10:35
Emily: I opened Fable by Adrienne.
10:38
Emily: Yeah.
10:38
Emily: The first time I encountered Adrian's work, and I read it in one sitting.
10:43
Emily: And I know you do that all the time, but I never do that.
10:46
Rachel: That's the only way I read.
10:48
Rachel: If I can't read it in one full sitting, what's the point?
10:52
Emily: I could count on, like, one hand the number of books I've done that with.
10:55
Emily: I literally.
10:56
Emily: I can remember them.
10:57
Emily: The Silent Patient, Fable, the.
11:01
Emily: There's that other book.
11:02
Emily: Anyway, the point is, I was, like, sitting there reading Fable, and I was, like, halfway through Fable, and I just kept looking at my computer like, I should be writing right now, but I physically could not make myself move because I was so burnt out.
11:14
Emily: And so it was good.
11:15
Emily: I just let myself read the book.
11:16
Emily: And, like, I eventually got to a point, was like, I just have to, like, let this be.
11:20
Emily: Yeah, let this be.
11:21
Emily: Let myself be the way I need to be.
11:23
Emily: I think that's the point of a writing retreat.
11:24
Emily: It's just, like, let yourself exist for a minute so that your brain can, like, catch up.
11:30
Rachel: Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
11:32
Rachel: I mean, as soon as you start shoulding.
11:35
Rachel: Shoulding the experience, you're already shooting yourself in the foot, you know, like, how's that for a sound bite?
11:44
Rachel: Aaliyah.
11:50
Emily: Instagram.
11:52
Rachel: Yeah, but, like, Aaliyah is our.
11:56
Rachel: Our amazing.
11:57
Rachel: Our wonderful virtual assistant.
11:59
Rachel: She is incredible.
12:00
Rachel: She helps us so much.
12:02
Rachel: But anyway, we love you, Aaliyah, but, yeah, like, as soon as you start, like, telling yourself all the shoulds you should be doing, it's just gonna fall apart.
12:13
Rachel: I mean, that's where the shame comes from.
12:15
Emily: Yeah.
12:16
Rachel: It's just not fun.
12:17
Rachel: So I think, don't do that.
12:21
Emily: Don't do that, and you'll have a great time.
12:22
Rachel: Don't.
12:23
Rachel: Don't do any of this.
12:25
Rachel: But Yeah, I like what I did for the last three, like, with you, and then the two I did with Amelia that were really, really helpful was ahead of time.
12:37
Rachel: Like, not that I did this on paper, but I, like, kind of made a list in my head of what are things that I would like to do.
12:45
Rachel: You know, I wanted to write, like, wanted to order food, I wanted to read.
12:49
Rachel: I, like, wanted to take a shower.
12:51
Rachel: Like, I love being warm after showers, so I like.
12:54
Rachel: I love take showers, so I want to take a shower.
12:56
Rachel: Like a bath.
12:57
Rachel: I wanted to, like, watch some tv.
13:00
Rachel: I had, like, some craft books, but I know myself, and I'm never going to read a craft book in, like, my relaxed time.
13:09
Rachel: So I was like, maybe I'll read a craft book, go for, like, a walk, you know, do some brainstorming.
13:16
Rachel: Light.
13:17
Rachel: Light exercise, yoga, sit outside.
13:19
Rachel: Like, I had, like, a list of.
13:21
Rachel: Of these are things I'd like to do.
13:23
Rachel: And then when I would wake up, I'd be like, what do I want to do today?
13:27
Rachel: Like, there was my menu of items, and if I.
13:30
Emily: A menu of options.
13:31
Emily: Not a menu of to dos.
13:33
Rachel: Exactly. Menu of options.
13:35
Rachel: And, like, what's available to me?
13:37
Rachel: What do I feel good about?
13:37
Rachel: And then if I felt good about, like, sitting on the couch, or if I felt good about going for a walk, then I would just go for a walk or I would read a book or.
13:49
Rachel: And that.
13:50
Rachel: The other thing is, like, when we were on ours in Portland, I, like, had no care about staying up late, so I was like, I'll stay up late.
13:59
Rachel: And the only time.
14:00
Rachel: So I read a whole book.
14:02
Rachel: Staying up late.
14:03
Rachel: When we were.
14:04
Rachel: Remember, I like reading.
14:05
Emily: I was out.
14:06
Rachel: I slept, you were asleep, and I was up to, like, 3:00am and it was great.
14:10
Rachel: But then we had to get up to go to the airport at, like, 4:35am that wasn't the best part, but I had a great time reading, and that was wonderful.
14:24
Emily: That's great.
14:25
Emily: Yeah.
14:27
Emily: Something that I did once.
14:29
Emily: It was kind of an impromptu writing retreat because my husband.
14:32
Emily: My husband runs.
14:34
Emily: Runs a lot.
14:35
Emily: Like, a lot a lot.
14:36
Rachel: Whatever you're thinking as the amount that David runs, it's like five times as much, ten times as much.
14:44
Rachel: In my whole life, I don't think I've walked total lifetime steps as much as, like, David runs in one weekend.
14:57
Emily: So long story short, we, like, booked this Airbnb in this tiny mountain town so he could go run all day, and I was supposed to, like, do adventures with him, but I sprained my ankle the week before So I was like, okay, we've got this cute Airbnb cabin thingy, so I'm just gonna write.
15:17
Emily: And at that point in time, I was doing Tiffany Clark Harrison's workshop on guided visualizations.
15:23
Emily: And so I, I was like, determined not to over overdo it, because I can easily overdo it when I'm drafting.
15:30
Emily: And then I hit this wall and I get really grumpy.
15:32
Emily: So I scheduled like morning, midday, and afternoon sprints.
15:36
Emily: So I would do a 15 minute visualization, I'd write for 45 minutes, and then I would make myself stop and go do something else.
15:42
Emily: So I hobbled around town, or I did yoga, watched TV or whatever.
15:48
Emily: And that worked out really well because then I had like a decent number of words at the end of the day, but I really only spent however many hours that adds up to writing.
15:56
Emily: And so it was a good way to balance those things.
15:59
Rachel: Yes.
16:00
Emily: So I'm happy to say that this writer had an incredible retreat when she submitted this question.
16:06
Emily: Yeah, she, she killed it.
16:08
Emily: She wrote lots of words.
16:08
Emily: She.
16:09
Emily: She built in rest and all those things.
16:11
Emily: So it was a great conversation.
16:12
Emily: Um, but yeah, take it easy out there.
16:16
Rachel: Take it easy.
16:17
Rachel: It doesn't have to be like, like, look, I also feel like there's lots of money pressures, at least for me, with writing retreats, of like, I'm spending money, so therefore I must have a return on this investment.
16:30
Rachel: And like, even if all you did was take care of yourself for a couple days, that's worth it.
16:34
Rachel: Like, you're, you're worth doing this for yourself.
16:38
Rachel: It's like, worth the time and money that it takes to treat yourself to something like this, to give yourself one day, two days, you know, a couple.
16:48
Rachel: It doesn't matter.
16:49
Rachel: It doesn't.
16:50
Rachel: There's no, like, even right days amount of like a writing retreat.
16:53
Rachel: It could be an afternoon, it could be an overnight.
16:56
Rachel: It doesn't really matter.
16:58
Rachel: Um, but it is about, you know, getting.
17:03
Rachel: I. I think to me it's like the relationship you have with yourself and your story.
17:08
Rachel: That's what a writing retreat's about.
17:10
Rachel: So how do we, like, make that relationship stronger?
17:14
Rachel: And is that could be.
17:16
Emily: If that just means sleeping for three days, then that means sleeping for three days.
17:19
Emily: Right?
17:19
Emily: That's still like, everything comes back to writing.
17:23
Emily: You can't separate writing from your life, from your mindset, from your energy.
17:28
Emily: And so, yeah, it's really important to take care of yourself.
17:34
Emily: So on a writing retreat, the, you know, thinking of ways that you can do that.
17:38
Emily: I mean, and if your brain.
17:39
Emily: If your brain can't make the jump shoe, it's worth it.
17:42
Emily: Just because it's worth it for me, because I'm worth it.
17:45
Emily: You can, like, maybe take the half, right?
17:45
Emily: That halfway jump of, like, you.
17:50
Emily: You have to have a full creative well to create your stories and so to watch TV and read books and just, like, replenish that.
17:59
Emily: I think for me, as a new mom, that's been especially difficult.
18:03
Emily: Like, I just have had a lot of, like, difficulty finding time to.
18:07
Emily: To watch TV and read books.
18:08
Emily: Like, I don't have it.
18:11
Emily: And I've had to, like, really intentionally try to build that into my life.
18:14
Emily: So I'm not overworking to the point where there's.
18:16
Emily: There's no creativity to pull from.
18:19
Emily: So even if your retreat is just filling your well, you know, whatever that means for you, it's still helping your writing because then you have more to pull from when you come home.
18:27
Rachel: Yeah. Alrighty.
18:29
Rachel: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
18:35
Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
18:38
Emily: After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
18:43
Rachel: Link in the show notes.
18:44
Rachel: We'll see you there.
18:45
Rachel: By.