Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Married Female Cheerleading Coach Sex W/ Boy Student?

Transcript

Married Female Cheerleading Coach Sex W/ Boy Student? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I hope you're sitting down.
0:15
Speaker 1: You may need to lay down for this one. An
0:18
Speaker 1: Oklahoma high school cheerleading coach busted for having sex with
0:27
Speaker 1: her daughters underage boyfriend, also a student. I mean, Nancy Grace,
0:36
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here
0:38
Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Sirius x eleven. You know, this
0:42
Speaker 1: morning I drove the twins to school in the minivan.
0:46
Speaker 1: The last thing to cross my mind would have been
0:51
Speaker 1: will the twins track coach or weight coach, you know,
0:58
Speaker 1: the body con thing try to have sex with the twins.
1:03
Speaker 1: I didn't even have those words in my mouth. I
1:06
Speaker 1: want to spit them out. Who would even think that? Again,
1:09
Speaker 1: thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation. In
1:11
Speaker 1: series six eleven. You know what, I don't even want
1:14
Speaker 1: to say it. I will let our France at Ko
1:17
Speaker 1: Ko say it. Listen. The victim says Hawkins first sexually
1:20
Speaker 1: assaulted him while they were watching a soccer game at
1:24
Speaker 1: her home. The victim said it eventually turned into Hawkins
1:27
Speaker 1: picking him up during his lunch break, taking him to
1:31
Speaker 1: her home, and then they would have sex. Now we
1:34
Speaker 1: got a statement from more public schools earlier this year
1:37
Speaker 1: when she was relieved from her duties. They said they
1:40
Speaker 1: learned of an allegation of inappropriate contact between an outside
1:44
Speaker 1: athletic coach and a student that occurred in the past.
1:47
Speaker 1: They said that they immediately contacted Oklahoma City Police, a
1:50
Speaker 1: report was filed, and that's when they told us the
1:53
Speaker 1: coach was immediately released from their duties. Released from their duties,
2:00
Speaker 1: some people would call for a proper tar and sethering.
2:04
Speaker 1: Oklahoma cheerleading coach busted having sex with her daughter's underage boyfriend,
2:11
Speaker 1: also a student. That's the last thing I want to
2:14
Speaker 1: hear about a school coach having sex with a student,
2:20
Speaker 1: much less her daughter's teen boyfriend. To just to put
2:25
Speaker 1: the icing on the poisonous cake. I mean, this is
2:29
Speaker 1: so wrong on so many different levels. And first of all,
2:34
Speaker 1: I've got an all star panel to make sense of this.
2:37
Speaker 1: But to Fran Longwell, former Deputy States Attorney in Calvert County,
2:43
Speaker 1: former Assistant States Attorney Prince George County specializing and sexophone
2:49
Speaker 1: offenses and homicide, first of all, let's don't call it
2:53
Speaker 1: having sex, because it's not having sex. If you're under
2:57
Speaker 1: a certain age, then that is statutory rape period because
3:05
Speaker 1: fran maybe you can explain it better than me, but
3:09
Speaker 1: better than I can. But miners, they can't go buy
3:14
Speaker 1: a car, They cannot buy alcohol or cigarettes at the
3:19
Speaker 1: corner store because they are under age. They don't have,
3:23
Speaker 1: under the law, mental capacity to enter into contracts. But
3:28
Speaker 1: I can tell you this, My son and daughter I
3:30
Speaker 1: think are have better manners and are smarter than a
3:34
Speaker 1: lot of people that went to law school with me.
3:37
Speaker 1: So I'm not saying they don't have intellect. I'm saying
3:40
Speaker 1: the law says they don't have the intellect or capacity
3:44
Speaker 1: to enter into a contract. So if I can't go
3:47
Speaker 1: buy a pack of cigarettes or a six pack of beer,
3:52
Speaker 1: I certainly cannot enter into a sex relationship with an
3:55
Speaker 1: adult friend. That's exactly true, Nancy and Maryland. Sixteen is
4:01
Speaker 1: the age of majority for sexual offenses, and this young
4:06
Speaker 1: man was sixteen when she started. However, I believe the
4:10
Speaker 1: school has a policy, which they should that teachers cannot
4:14
Speaker 1: interact with students. So that's how they got her on it. Well,
4:17
Speaker 1: you sure are putting perfume on the pig to be
4:19
Speaker 1: a former prosecutor interact with a student. I hardly think
4:24
Speaker 1: having full out sex with a teen boy while you're
4:27
Speaker 1: watching soccer on TV. Is what did you just say? Interaction? Well, okay,
4:33
Speaker 1: and then she would pick him up at school at
4:36
Speaker 1: lunch and take him back to her home and have
4:38
Speaker 1: sex with him. And he says it's over three hundred times.
4:42
Speaker 1: So if this is the most outrageous ones I've heard,
4:45
Speaker 1: you know what's concerning me now that you've put another
4:47
Speaker 1: nightmare in my head. Thank you very much, Fran long
4:50
Speaker 1: Well for doing that. Because at the Twins school, when
4:53
Speaker 1: they get to I think the tenth degrade, they can
4:58
Speaker 1: leave campus. They can walk off campus because there's some
5:01
Speaker 1: shops and restaurants like a McDonald's and a taco stand,
5:05
Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of food trucks that circle up
5:09
Speaker 1: not far from their school. They can walk off campus
5:12
Speaker 1: for that whatever it is, forty minute or fifty minute period,
5:16
Speaker 1: as long as they're back for their next class. Now
5:20
Speaker 1: I have to worry about this because you know, let
5:23
Speaker 1: me go to Tom ferguson Reporter Fox twenty five ko
5:28
Speaker 1: KH there in Oklahoma. I'd like to say, yeah, it's
5:33
Speaker 1: all at Oklahoma. It all happens there. But you know,
5:35
Speaker 1: I know from prosecuting for so many years, Tom Ferguson,
5:38
Speaker 1: It happens everywhere. But Tom Ferguson, just give me some
5:43
Speaker 1: of the facts. Who is this woman, Oklahoma cheerleading coach
5:47
Speaker 1: Jennifer Hawkins. Now she has a daughter that was actually
5:52
Speaker 1: dating the victim, Nancy. That's correct, that's how Jennifer and
5:57
Speaker 1: the victim met. You know what, Tom Ferguson. I know
6:00
Speaker 1: you're used to just giving the news, but crime Stories
6:03
Speaker 1: is not like that, and everybody else, Well, why do
6:06
Speaker 1: I have to keep telling you guys this? This is
6:08
Speaker 1: not high tea at Windsor Castle with King Charles and
6:13
Speaker 1: Camilla jump in just what you just said, Tom Ferguson, Okay,
6:17
Speaker 1: say that one more time. Oh of course, that's right.
6:19
Speaker 1: You know they according to court records, you know, the
6:23
Speaker 1: two met through the daughter, which is That's it. That's
6:28
Speaker 1: what Tom Ferguson Fox twenty five kokh Hold on, Tom,
6:32
Speaker 1: because I'll totally forget this thought. Scott Johnson with me
6:36
Speaker 1: Forensic Psychologists Specializing and Addressing sex Predators as professor or
6:42
Speaker 1: Florida Gulf Coast University, and you can find him at
6:46
Speaker 1: Forensic Consultation dot Org. Right there, Tom Ferguson is telling
6:52
Speaker 1: us the way this cheerleading coach mom meets the boy
6:58
Speaker 1: victim is through her daughter. You know what, when my
7:01
Speaker 1: daughter and son and or son have friends over, I
7:08
Speaker 1: cannot even imagine looking at one of them in a
7:12
Speaker 1: sexual way. That's just well, I just can't even think
7:17
Speaker 1: about that. They look like to me, they look like children.
7:20
Speaker 1: Of course, my son is six to five, if he
7:22
Speaker 1: didn't already know that, but his friends are not six
7:25
Speaker 1: to five. Some of them are. To me, they all
7:28
Speaker 1: look like their twelve. And I just want to like
7:31
Speaker 1: hug him and give him a sandwich or something to eat.
7:34
Speaker 1: And you know, if they are outside, I mean a
7:37
Speaker 1: nervous writer, they're going to fall off the trampoline. I
7:39
Speaker 1: then that's how I think of them. What kind of
7:43
Speaker 1: mine looks at her daughter's boyfriend who's a teen and goes, wow,
7:49
Speaker 1: he's hot. I don't get it right, So she has
7:52
Speaker 1: a at least some degree of sexual attraction obviously the
7:55
Speaker 1: adolescents that should have been directed toward adults. But she's
7:58
Speaker 1: also okay, in wait a minute, just say, you know
8:01
Speaker 1: they're coming in my own going quit making faces. I'm
8:04
Speaker 1: trying not to make faces, Okay, But it's just yeah, Okay,
8:08
Speaker 1: go ahead, Scott. So basically, there's a sexual attraction to
8:13
Speaker 1: adolescence that should have again been directed toward adults, but
8:17
Speaker 1: she's a predator, and that she also takes advantage of
8:19
Speaker 1: the situation with her daughter to move in on the
8:22
Speaker 1: mail I eat the daughter's boyfriend. But that also speaks
8:27
Speaker 1: to psychopathic traits because she really just doesn't care about
8:31
Speaker 1: the ramifications back on her daughter or on this boy,
8:35
Speaker 1: or of getting caught with this. Do you remember, I
8:38
Speaker 1: guess in grammar school it started with me where the
8:41
Speaker 1: teacher diagrams a sentence and there was a straight line
8:44
Speaker 1: and all these off sheets with the subject in the
8:46
Speaker 1: verb and the adjective and blah blah blah. I had
8:50
Speaker 1: to just do that for everything you just said, Scott Johnson,
8:53
Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer, kid, you please, dummy down.
8:56
Speaker 1: I can't even take the notes fast enough. Okay, I
8:58
Speaker 1: tried to adolescence. My first is isn't there a name
9:01
Speaker 1: for that? Not pedophilia, but someone attracted to what's the name.
9:06
Speaker 1: It's emophelia e phe beal whoa what what let's call it? No?
9:19
Speaker 1: I can't even say emmophilia evo phelia eva and he
9:25
Speaker 1: is attraction to an adolescent. Yeah, so, well, at least
9:27
Speaker 1: a primary sexual attraction to adolescents, because most of us
9:31
Speaker 1: still have some attractive to adolescents because they resemble adults. Actually,
9:35
Speaker 1: I must be like completely numb by the time I
9:40
Speaker 1: take care of two guinea pigs, one cat, one dog,
9:42
Speaker 1: two twins again one a six five and hungry ninety
9:46
Speaker 1: one year old mom and my husband. The last thing
9:49
Speaker 1: that would cross my mind is any sex attraction to
9:54
Speaker 1: an adolescent. Emophilia. No, I don't think I even have
9:58
Speaker 1: a tiny bit of that. Oh okay, Jackie spelling it
10:02
Speaker 1: for me. You know, I know you had to google that.
10:04
Speaker 1: Don't act like you. Okay, she's admitting you did not
10:07
Speaker 1: know that. Ephe b A said brother. Oh philia. F aphilia, okay, right,
10:15
Speaker 1: f aphilia. Guy, So there is a name for specifically
10:20
Speaker 1: that I always think of pedophile or pedophilia, but I
10:24
Speaker 1: had a feeling there might be something specifically when you
10:26
Speaker 1: have an attraction to an analyssent. Then you said she's
10:29
Speaker 1: a predator. Then you said that she had was not
10:32
Speaker 1: concerned at all about the ramifications of her own daughter.
10:36
Speaker 1: You know, we got invited to go have dinner with
10:40
Speaker 1: the twins middle school principal who has started her own school.
10:44
Speaker 1: And the first thing I thought, well, what are the
10:46
Speaker 1: twins going to eat when I'm out to dinner. So
10:50
Speaker 1: in this case, she is not thinking what is this
10:53
Speaker 1: going to do to my daughter? Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
11:10
Speaker 1: Back to Tom Ferguson Fox twenty five, Ko, kh, let's
11:16
Speaker 1: try it again. Some jerk interrupted you and went off
11:21
Speaker 1: on a tangent. Oh it was me, Sorry, go ahead,
11:24
Speaker 1: Tom Ferguson, No, Yeah, Well, what's really crazy about the situation,
11:27
Speaker 1: I think is the only reason this was illegal was
11:31
Speaker 1: because the student and the coach were in the same
11:35
Speaker 1: school district. You know, the age to consent Oklahoma being sixteen.
11:39
Speaker 1: If the suspect year had been a coach at Oklahoma
11:43
Speaker 1: City Public Schools, for example, you know, this would have
11:45
Speaker 1: been perfectly fine under the law. And you know that's
11:48
Speaker 1: where the prosecution is focusing at their kison is when
11:52
Speaker 1: he was a student in the district. He left the
11:55
Speaker 1: district in twenty nineteen, but the relationship continued until twenty
12:00
Speaker 1: You but you know the Keith ends in twenty eighteen
12:02
Speaker 1: when he left the district. Anna Sonoda, child grooming expert,
12:08
Speaker 1: clinical social worker, author of dut Duck Groom. That's a
12:13
Speaker 1: good title, Duck Duck Grim Understanding how a child becomes
12:16
Speaker 1: a target, and you can find her at Anna Sota
12:19
Speaker 1: dot com. Anna tom Ferguson is a very well respected
12:26
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. He's at a great station, Kokh, Oklahoma. But
12:32
Speaker 1: everything he just said is BS. Now that's a technical
12:35
Speaker 1: legal term. A lot of you may not know what
12:38
Speaker 1: that means in the Latin aspect, but Tom Ferguson sadly
12:45
Speaker 1: is reporting the truth. The fact that he's a teen
12:50
Speaker 1: age sixteen and she's a forty five year old cheerleading
12:53
Speaker 1: coach gunning for her daughter's under age boyfriend. That's not
13:00
Speaker 1: the problem, because to me, that's the problem he's saying,
13:04
Speaker 1: and he's right, by the way that in his jurisdiction,
13:08
Speaker 1: the problem under the law is she works for the
13:12
Speaker 1: school district and he's a student. Help me, please, absolutely, Nancy.
13:16
Speaker 1: So one of the components that I think we need
13:19
Speaker 1: to get back to is not why these people do it,
13:23
Speaker 1: but how they do it. Because if we're going to
13:24
Speaker 1: get our kids protected and keep our communities in our
13:27
Speaker 1: schools safe, we need to know how grooming works, what
13:30
Speaker 1: it looks like, how to observe it, and how to
13:33
Speaker 1: stop it, because all along the way in this case
13:36
Speaker 1: there were examples of how intentional, incremental, and observable. This
13:41
Speaker 1: was lunch dates. He was taken off campus. Aren't their
13:44
Speaker 1: cameras on campuses nowadays? Nobody saw that pattern the idea
13:51
Speaker 1: that when we're looking at child sex abuse, eighty two
13:53
Speaker 1: percent of the time it happens in the home of
13:55
Speaker 1: the victim or the home of the predator. She was
13:58
Speaker 1: consistently removing him from peers and taking him off campus
14:02
Speaker 1: in order to get that hands on access. Wow, you're
14:05
Speaker 1: super smart, you know that. Anna Sonoda joining me child
14:09
Speaker 1: grimmy expert author of Duck Groom, understanding how a child
14:13
Speaker 1: becomes a target. She's at Annasoda dot com. You threw
14:17
Speaker 1: out a stat and I want to remember that eighty
14:19
Speaker 1: two percent of the time that a child sex attack occurs,
14:25
Speaker 1: it's within one of the homes. Yes, ma'am. It's either
14:27
Speaker 1: in the home of the victim or the home of
14:29
Speaker 1: the predator. So we have examples all throughout this case
14:34
Speaker 1: of how the first incident occurred at her home and
14:38
Speaker 1: then repetitively she's taking him off campus. These weren't observed
14:42
Speaker 1: hands on incidents at school. These were events that were
14:46
Speaker 1: happening because she had access and she had available space,
14:50
Speaker 1: the two key ingredients to successful child abuse. If somebody
14:54
Speaker 1: had just been paying attention to this pattern of behavior
14:57
Speaker 1: of removing him from campus, with the same person getting
15:01
Speaker 1: into his vehicle and asking aloud, questioning that pattern, we
15:05
Speaker 1: could have saved this boy. I'm trying to take in
15:07
Speaker 1: everything that Anna Sinoda has just said. Hey, Dan Scott
15:10
Speaker 1: with me former La County Sheriff sergeant, and there's never
15:14
Speaker 1: a lot of business in LA twenty six years with
15:18
Speaker 1: Special Victims Bureau specializing in child to be is Dan Scott.
15:23
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to more of what happened here. But you,
15:27
Speaker 1: like me, I think have seen a lot of male pedophiles,
15:33
Speaker 1: a lot of male sex offenders, a lot the ying yang,
15:38
Speaker 1: but you don't always typically see a female sex offender exactly.
15:46
Speaker 1: It's more than ten to one. But I have had
15:51
Speaker 1: cases just like this with a female perpetrator embedded in
15:57
Speaker 1: the school. Most of them they're married and they put
16:02
Speaker 1: on an air of a normal you know, fit in
16:06
Speaker 1: with the group. As Anna said, somebody saw this. I
16:11
Speaker 1: guarantee they did. Many other teachers or staff members saw
16:17
Speaker 1: her sneaking off campus, saw her picking him up around
16:20
Speaker 1: the corner, whatever her routine was, and they kept their
16:24
Speaker 1: mouth closed. If it was a male teacher. Yeah, I
16:29
Speaker 1: was just going to say Dan that since it's a
16:32
Speaker 1: female predator, they may have actually seen it and not
16:36
Speaker 1: thought anything of it. And even if they did think
16:39
Speaker 1: something and they were suspicious, they're less apt to speak
16:43
Speaker 1: up with a male suspect. We're more tuned into them
16:49
Speaker 1: being predators, so they'll report it because they are more
16:52
Speaker 1: often predators, like ten times, and Jackie here is pointing
16:57
Speaker 1: out that also some people that are familiar with the
17:00
Speaker 1: boy know that he's dating her daughter and would think
17:06
Speaker 1: you know nothing of it that you know they know
17:09
Speaker 1: each other, Like if I'm in the car with one
17:12
Speaker 1: of my son's friends, probably nobody would think a thing
17:15
Speaker 1: of it. Hold on, I'm just thinking through what you
17:20
Speaker 1: just said. Oh yeah, thank goodness, we have a shrink
17:24
Speaker 1: because there's the child abuse angle, but there is also
17:30
Speaker 1: the aspect of doing that to your daughter. Anyway, guys,
17:36
Speaker 1: take a listen now to our friends at kfo R
17:39
Speaker 1: Jennifer Hawkins was a More public school's cheer coach for
17:42
Speaker 1: several years. In that time, she allegedly had sex with
17:45
Speaker 1: a Southmore sophomore. That former student saying they had sex
17:49
Speaker 1: more than three hundred times at her home. He didn't
17:52
Speaker 1: have a normal school experience because she was able to
17:55
Speaker 1: exercise that control over him. Forty five year old Jennifer Hawkins,
17:59
Speaker 1: who once coach cheer at Westmore High and Brinx Junior High,
18:02
Speaker 1: was arrested Wednesday on charges of sexual battery and second
18:06
Speaker 1: degree reap. And I'm thinking back when that reporter said
18:09
Speaker 1: a normal school experience. Let me circle back to Tom
18:14
Speaker 1: Ferguson joining us from Fox twenty five KKH. I look
18:18
Speaker 1: back on high school and I specifically remember working alone
18:25
Speaker 1: after school with my Spanish teacher, Senor Petz, and I mean,
18:31
Speaker 1: it would never have crossed anybody's mind that he could
18:37
Speaker 1: have been a sex petitor. Of course he was not.
18:39
Speaker 1: He was wonderful. And then with my female teacher, often
18:44
Speaker 1: working on my French teacher, my damn Webber. I just
18:49
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to take this in. Can you
18:51
Speaker 1: tell me, Tom Ferguson, about the other layer of this
18:55
Speaker 1: three hundred times full out sex with a student and
19:03
Speaker 1: neither the daughter noticed or anyone else. How did that happen?
19:06
Speaker 1: Tom Right? I mean, I think we're all kind of
19:09
Speaker 1: asking that question right now. And you know, I think
19:12
Speaker 1: you know, part of this that we have touched on
19:14
Speaker 1: here that's also really important is, you know, the victim
19:17
Speaker 1: told police that Hawkins was controlling and manipulative, and you know,
19:22
Speaker 1: it's you know, difficult to imagine the situation that must
19:25
Speaker 1: have been going through his mind when almost every day
19:28
Speaker 1: during his sophomore junior years of high school, this coach
19:32
Speaker 1: was picking him up from lunch and going to her
19:37
Speaker 1: home to you know, allegedly you have sex. I mean,
19:40
Speaker 1: that must have just been just such a difficult situation
19:43
Speaker 1: to deal with, and especially with the you know, the
19:46
Speaker 1: power dam to make a play with a much older
19:48
Speaker 1: coach in the district, you know, I mean, it's it's
19:51
Speaker 1: hard to wrap your head around. O mean, what were
19:53
Speaker 1: the school rules about leaving campus? Um? You know, we
19:56
Speaker 1: haven't got much from the school on that, and I
19:58
Speaker 1: think it's definitely good follow up question, but I think
20:01
Speaker 1: that's another angle to investiate here, is you know, more
20:05
Speaker 1: public schools, will y'all be changing policies, you know, based
20:07
Speaker 1: on this situation. Well, they certainly need to consider it.
20:10
Speaker 1: And I want you to get a glimpse into this
20:12
Speaker 1: female predator's frame of mind. Take a listen to Keiley Olivas.
20:18
Speaker 1: While sitting in Hawkins's living room and watching a soccer game,
20:21
Speaker 1: she allegedly performed a sexual act on him, telling him
20:24
Speaker 1: quote he would remember that soccer match for the rest
20:27
Speaker 1: of his life. The relationship continued after that, the two
20:30
Speaker 1: meeting during school lunch almost every day to have sex.
20:34
Speaker 1: This victim came forward after he was finally able to
20:37
Speaker 1: move away from this individual and realize that what had
20:41
Speaker 1: gone on was wrong. More public schools confirmed. Hawkins has
20:44
Speaker 1: not worked for the district since the end of January.
20:47
Speaker 1: The Cleveland County District Attorney's office is hoping there are
20:49
Speaker 1: no other victims. But it wouldn't be uncommon. It wouldn't
20:53
Speaker 1: be uncommon. And she said that very calmly. Yeah, that happens.
20:58
Speaker 1: Still flabber asked that this is not a crime in
21:03
Speaker 1: a sense that it's sex with a teen boy. But
21:08
Speaker 1: what fran Longwell is telling me again, fran Longwell, the
21:11
Speaker 1: way they're approaching it in Oklahoma is that it's against
21:15
Speaker 1: the law to have sex relations of any type if
21:18
Speaker 1: you are working in the school system, right, and if
21:22
Speaker 1: it's a student, that's the way their laws reading back
21:24
Speaker 1: to her frame of mind. And I want to go
21:26
Speaker 1: to Anna Sonoda on this as well as Scott Johnson. Anna.
21:31
Speaker 1: So the first time that this crime was committed on
21:36
Speaker 1: this teen boy, the perp says, well, that's a soccer match,
21:42
Speaker 1: you'll remember the rest of your life. She's making light
21:46
Speaker 1: of this, she's making a snide remark. She's acting like
21:50
Speaker 1: it's acceptable and okay. Absolutely, And one of the things
21:54
Speaker 1: about grooming that's a hallmark is that it's intentional, it's incremental,
21:59
Speaker 1: and its observable. There's a reason that she was at
22:02
Speaker 1: her own private home during that game, and that she
22:05
Speaker 1: used that time where nobody else was looking, in order
22:09
Speaker 1: to attempt her first hands on incident. I'll also say
22:15
Speaker 1: that the perverse courtship that is grooming in order to
22:18
Speaker 1: gain that access in space had to have been put
22:22
Speaker 1: down before the soccer game at her home. He felt
22:26
Speaker 1: comfortable enough to go to her home. He was not
22:29
Speaker 1: concerned about any predation at that time. But we have
22:33
Speaker 1: a very distorted perception of female predators in this country
22:36
Speaker 1: with male victims, it seems as if it's more of
22:39
Speaker 1: a rite of passage and not predation, which it is.
22:42
Speaker 1: And we know that female predators are underreported, under arrested,
22:46
Speaker 1: and under convicted. So in this case, we have an
22:49
Speaker 1: opportunity in Oklahoma to highlight the perverse courtship that is
22:53
Speaker 1: grooming and how all along the way that boy was
22:57
Speaker 1: isolated from his peers, and that she actually made herself
23:01
Speaker 1: more of appeared to him rather than being the adult
23:04
Speaker 1: that we all expected her to be. Scott Johnson for
23:07
Speaker 1: ZIC Psychologists joining us out of Minnesota and Professor Scott,
23:12
Speaker 1: what do you make of this woman, Jennifer Hawkins in
23:16
Speaker 1: her forties, old enough to know better, kind of making
23:20
Speaker 1: a sex joke? Wow, I guess that's a soccer gaming
23:24
Speaker 1: You'll never forget. I just want to just just twist
23:28
Speaker 1: her little head off. What I really see her as,
23:30
Speaker 1: you know, if you think about typologies as sex offenders
23:33
Speaker 1: is I would call her a seductor child molester. Now
23:36
Speaker 1: forget the fact that I'm trying to write notes right now, right, okay,
23:40
Speaker 1: so you don't have to go at ninety mph. Seductor
23:43
Speaker 1: a child molester. Okay, go ahead, right, And so even
23:47
Speaker 1: though he's in his team's not under twelve, I'd still
23:51
Speaker 1: call him that typology because she believed it was normal
23:55
Speaker 1: and an oldkay thing to do. And as Anna pointed out,
23:59
Speaker 1: you know, she's normalizing the contact between them, and very
24:04
Speaker 1: specifically in the police report, I noted that she was
24:07
Speaker 1: downplaying what others thought about it, which meant she didn't
24:11
Speaker 1: care that others knew about it, but she was counting
24:15
Speaker 1: how others opinions might play by saying, it's just a
24:19
Speaker 1: big deal. Sometimes people just don't like what we do,
24:22
Speaker 1: but what we do is okay. So in her mind
24:25
Speaker 1: it was okay to have sex with a minor. She's
24:28
Speaker 1: a sexual predator, she's no dangerous in my professional opinion,
24:32
Speaker 1: and a male. We keep downplaying the seriousness of the
24:36
Speaker 1: female offender when in fact the impact on the victim
24:41
Speaker 1: is the same and so or maybe worse, because people
24:45
Speaker 1: don't really want to believe him that it was traumatizing
24:49
Speaker 1: what in fact it was. So she really just has
24:52
Speaker 1: psychopathic traits. She does what she does. She doesn't care
24:55
Speaker 1: about the outcome on her daughter, the victim, or how
24:59
Speaker 1: even her pears are going to look at this, and
25:02
Speaker 1: the other side of this, which I heard people comment on,
25:04
Speaker 1: is you know, you know, we know better when we're
25:07
Speaker 1: in a teaching profession than to engage in a sexual
25:10
Speaker 1: relationship with our students, regardless of the law. There's ethics,
25:15
Speaker 1: and so she made a very predatory, deliberate decision and
25:19
Speaker 1: continued it out over several years to engage in sexual abuse, rape, etc.
25:25
Speaker 1: Of this young man. What exactly is a as you
25:28
Speaker 1: describe the typology a seductor child molester. A seductor believes,
25:34
Speaker 1: number one, it's appropriate to be sexual with children. It's
25:38
Speaker 1: our obligation to help children, as Freud might have said,
25:43
Speaker 1: sexually actualize. And so they actually bond with their victims.
25:47
Speaker 1: They try not to cause any physical harm because they're
25:51
Speaker 1: constantly grooming and introducing different sex acts over time so
25:56
Speaker 1: as not to create significant fear or anxiety and the victim,
26:01
Speaker 1: which typically, by the way, in my opinion, usually it
26:04
Speaker 1: takes five to eight years for a victim to come
26:07
Speaker 1: forward because of all the manipulation that's happened, and in
26:11
Speaker 1: this case it was a little over five years, and
26:13
Speaker 1: so it takes that long for a victim to start
26:16
Speaker 1: sorting out, this was really wrong, speaking manipulation, take a
26:21
Speaker 1: listen to Kokh. According to court records, Hawkins would take
26:26
Speaker 1: the victim to her home in Oklahoma City. The victim
26:29
Speaker 1: reported Hawkins was quote manipulative in controlling, and that the
26:34
Speaker 1: two had sex over three hundred times. There's been a
26:37
Speaker 1: lot of impact on this victim, in particular because of
26:40
Speaker 1: the nature of this relationship, because it was so controlling
26:43
Speaker 1: and his high school, his entire high school time frame
26:47
Speaker 1: where he should have been a student and should have
26:49
Speaker 1: been enjoying being a student, was in a relationship with
26:52
Speaker 1: her where she limited his friends and his interactions with others.
26:56
Speaker 1: Tom Ferguson joining us from KOKH. Where would the daughter
27:01
Speaker 1: be her teen daughter when all this is happening. Just
27:05
Speaker 1: thinking about just the dynamics at play here and how
27:08
Speaker 1: this impacted both hawkins family but also the victims family.
27:13
Speaker 1: I know just must have been incredibly difficult for everyone
27:15
Speaker 1: involved to just be like seeing and be aware of.
27:18
Speaker 1: But did I guess this was happening? The sex attacks
27:21
Speaker 1: were happening mostly during the day at the lunch break,
27:24
Speaker 1: so the daughter would presumably be at school right right,
27:28
Speaker 1: And you know that was certainly the case at the beginning,
27:31
Speaker 1: and then you know, moving in afterwards, you know, after
27:35
Speaker 1: you know he had left the district and everything just
27:37
Speaker 1: it must have been I imagine weird for the daughter,
27:40
Speaker 1: certainly the pair meeting through Hawker's daughter, who the victim
27:45
Speaker 1: dated from an unspecified time for an unspecified time and
27:48
Speaker 1: knew from school. Okay, I can't even imagine what damage
27:53
Speaker 1: that would do to the daughter when she finds out
27:56
Speaker 1: her mother is sleeping with her teen boyfriend. Take listen
28:00
Speaker 1: to this. Jennifer Austen explained that state law prohibits students
28:04
Speaker 1: and district employees from having sexual relationships, including when the
28:08
Speaker 1: student reaches the age of consent at school, consent gets
28:12
Speaker 1: removed from the equation. A lot of the sexual acts
28:15
Speaker 1: that took place, she would have him come home for
28:18
Speaker 1: school from school at lunch to her home and have
28:21
Speaker 1: the sex relationship at home while her daughter and her
28:25
Speaker 1: family were at worker at school. Tom Ferguson, how did
28:30
Speaker 1: the cheerleading coach respond when she was first confronted with
28:35
Speaker 1: accusations she had sex with a student, a teen boy right,
28:40
Speaker 1: apparently you know in the police importance says, you know,
28:43
Speaker 1: at first she denied this inappropriate relationship. And then in
28:48
Speaker 1: the afterwords, she you know, broke down, and you know,
28:51
Speaker 1: these authorities were asking her, you know, how many times
28:53
Speaker 1: did this happen? And you know she just repeated like,
28:56
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Um.
28:58
Speaker 1: And so, you know, being fronted with this, I mean,
29:01
Speaker 1: I mean it's I don't even know. Like I can
29:04
Speaker 1: imagine being in the room. Can you imagine you know,
29:08
Speaker 1: going off to a chair coins and saying, hey, we
29:10
Speaker 1: have this information, Like what do you say about this?
29:12
Speaker 1: It just must have been, you know, just quite the situation,
29:16
Speaker 1: talking about what the daughter thinks, what about her husband?
29:21
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut ten k WT. The
29:27
Speaker 1: prosecutors charged forty five year old Jennifer Hawkins with second
29:31
Speaker 1: degree rape and sexual battery. The mother and wife was
29:36
Speaker 1: a long time cheerleading coach at Westmore High School, Brink
29:40
Speaker 1: Middle School, and the University of Central Oklahoma. Police were
29:44
Speaker 1: notified in January of the alleged sexual misconduct between Hawkins
29:48
Speaker 1: and the victim. Police say the victim sent a detailed
29:52
Speaker 1: letter to more public school officials about his five year
29:56
Speaker 1: long sexual relationship with Hawkins. These documents say this was
30:00
Speaker 1: a year's long relationship between a former student and a
30:04
Speaker 1: district employee. Situations like this can have lasting impacts on victims.
30:09
Speaker 1: Forty five year old Jennifer Hawkins arrested and booked into
30:13
Speaker 1: the Cleveland County Detention Center. According to CORE documents, Hawkins
30:17
Speaker 1: was a cheer coach at Westmore High School in Brink
30:20
Speaker 1: Junior High. The victim a now former Southmore student. Time
30:38
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Tom Ferguson, Kokh, Tom again, thank
30:48
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us, because you really
30:50
Speaker 1: cracked this case wide open. What about her husband? What's
30:54
Speaker 1: become of him? I wish I had an answer to that,
30:57
Speaker 1: but I don't have any details on husband. I didn't
31:01
Speaker 1: even realize that she was married. Honestly, you're kidding. So
31:04
Speaker 1: that seems like he was not part of this equation
31:07
Speaker 1: at all. Nobody even is thinking about the husband. Yeah,
31:10
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that. Yeah, I guess it must
31:14
Speaker 1: have been certainly difficult for him, though. I mean, yeah,
31:16
Speaker 1: I guess fran Longwell joining us former Deputy States attorney.
31:22
Speaker 1: So often the spouse refuses to believe that anything untoward
31:29
Speaker 1: has happened. I agree. I think that's that is it.
31:33
Speaker 1: Um there was. I don't know if you recall this case.
31:35
Speaker 1: There was a case in my where Jason Myers, he
31:39
Speaker 1: was forty seven, had sex with a seventeen year old
31:41
Speaker 1: victim three times. He was her creative writing teacher. He
31:46
Speaker 1: was married with a pregnant wife, three kids, and then
31:50
Speaker 1: he got sentenced to life in Florida, which he should have.
31:54
Speaker 1: But I you know, I've seen it over and over
31:56
Speaker 1: where the spouses don't want to recognize, even in ysical
32:00
Speaker 1: child abuse, they don't want to really accept the fact
32:03
Speaker 1: that that their partners doing that to their child, you know,
32:06
Speaker 1: trying to figure out the effect this would have on
32:09
Speaker 1: a marriage, on a family to you, Scott Johns and
32:13
Speaker 1: forensic psychologists joining us, what about it? Scott, Well, certainly
32:18
Speaker 1: it would likely erode and destroy the marriage. I mean,
32:21
Speaker 1: to have something so devastating happened, and perhaps the husband
32:26
Speaker 1: had no idea this was going on, but they may
32:30
Speaker 1: have had little inklings something was going on but didn't
32:33
Speaker 1: quite know what to make of it. So the relationship
32:36
Speaker 1: between her and her daughter, her and her husband, et cetera,
32:38
Speaker 1: are done. I mean, how do you trust again? Plus
32:41
Speaker 1: the shame that she brought on them, that was just
32:44
Speaker 1: you know, just unexplainably unexpected. I mean, how they how
32:49
Speaker 1: to deal with that in a healthy way. I'm not
32:51
Speaker 1: even sure therapy helped, but you know so she didn't care,
32:56
Speaker 1: So she had no concern about the impact on anyone,
33:00
Speaker 1: and she was just more interested in having her sexual toy.
33:04
Speaker 1: If you will, I either victim. It reminds me a
33:07
Speaker 1: great deal of Mary Laterno, do you recall her the
33:12
Speaker 1: teacher and started having sex with I guess he was
33:17
Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen or twelve Billie. He was twelve. She
33:22
Speaker 1: was thirty four. And then she went to jail and
33:26
Speaker 1: was let out on conditions, one being not to be
33:29
Speaker 1: around him, and cops, of course, immediately bust her in
33:32
Speaker 1: the car at night, locked in with him having sex.
33:35
Speaker 1: I mean it completely tore apart her family. And I
33:40
Speaker 1: don't mean just a spouse, but when you have children,
33:43
Speaker 1: what do your children think the rest of their lives? Wow,
33:46
Speaker 1: mommy was having sex with the twelve year old and
33:49
Speaker 1: it ruined our marriage. I don't think there's any coming
33:51
Speaker 1: back in the marriage after that. And it brings to
33:55
Speaker 1: mind a friend. I consider him a friend. Owen la Fay.
34:02
Speaker 1: We often hear her the wife's name Deborah La Fay
34:07
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend, Jesse Palmer, Daily Mail
34:11
Speaker 1: and Our Cut thirteen Deborah La Fave Afflorida High School
34:14
Speaker 1: English teacher who had sex with her fourteen year old student.
34:18
Speaker 1: One year later, she played guilty to two counts of
34:20
Speaker 1: loot and lascivious behavior involving a minor. The public outcry
34:24
Speaker 1: was tremendous twenty four years old at the time, but
34:27
Speaker 1: Faive blamed her actions on being bipolar and hypersexualized, claiming
34:32
Speaker 1: she had been raped when she was a teen. Mental
34:35
Speaker 1: illnesses are real, they could cause good people to do
34:38
Speaker 1: bad things. Her attorney famously told the judge she was
34:42
Speaker 1: too pretty for prison. In the end, LaFave played guilty
34:46
Speaker 1: to loot and lascivious behavior. She was sentenced to just
34:50
Speaker 1: three years house arrest, but branded a sex offender. I
34:54
Speaker 1: remember Owen going through all of those phases of denial,
34:58
Speaker 1: rejecting the standing by his wife, until finally he realized
35:03
Speaker 1: it had happened. He has moved on in his life now,
35:07
Speaker 1: but those scars must last forever and I imagine would
35:11
Speaker 1: shape any future relationship. And speaking of future relationship, Scott Johnson,
35:16
Speaker 1: what about this young boy's future relationships, well, right, there's
35:21
Speaker 1: always going to be adempt in there now toward dating partners,
35:25
Speaker 1: obviously toward females, because he realizes how he was manipulated
35:30
Speaker 1: and used, and more importantly, how that shame comes into play,
35:34
Speaker 1: because I'm sure he's partially blamed himself for letting it
35:38
Speaker 1: go on, and yet he wasn't in a position to
35:40
Speaker 1: stop it. No child or adolescent is. And so for
35:45
Speaker 1: him to start trusting people and to trust his own sense,
35:48
Speaker 1: that's going to take a little time. Guys, we can't
35:50
Speaker 1: even have this discussion without the mention of Debril of
35:53
Speaker 1: Faith or Brittany Zamora. Take a list now, friends. At
35:58
Speaker 1: Inside Edition, shocking new details are emerging about a sixth
36:02
Speaker 1: grade teacher accused of having sex with her thirteen year
36:06
Speaker 1: old student. Texts allegedly sent to the teen by elementary
36:10
Speaker 1: school teacher Brittany Zamora. We're just released by prosecutors. Omglol.
36:15
Speaker 1: You're so cute baby. I wish you could have stayed
36:17
Speaker 1: after with me, she wrote. He answered me too, I
36:20
Speaker 1: wish we could just hang out together whenever we wanted.
36:23
Speaker 1: Oh baby, I know what you mean. You're all I
36:26
Speaker 1: think about you will be my wife one day in
36:28
Speaker 1: this crazy life. She wrote back, I'll give you whatever
36:31
Speaker 1: you want. Baby. The twenty seven year old teacher allegedly
36:34
Speaker 1: met the student for sex on four occasions and sent
36:37
Speaker 1: him nude selfies. That's four occasions. This woman, the cheerleading
36:43
Speaker 1: cousin Jennifer Hawkins, had sex with a minor within the
36:48
Speaker 1: same school at least three hundred times. There's more on Zamora.
36:54
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at KP in x
36:56
Speaker 1: shocking new detail. Zamora rushes to talk to him. She
37:02
Speaker 1: started crying naturally, and she said, you know, I don't know, um.
37:07
Speaker 1: There the only two things I care about in my life,
37:10
Speaker 1: for you know, my husband, in my career. So did
37:14
Speaker 1: you did you ever talk to any parents about the rumors?
37:19
Speaker 1: I didn't and I didn't I didn't want to blow
37:23
Speaker 1: it up. A week after crying to her principle, for Issamore,
37:26
Speaker 1: I would ask the boy to sneak out of his
37:28
Speaker 1: grandparents while for sex out because while Principal Dickie was
37:32
Speaker 1: looking into the matter, so were the boys parents. And
37:35
Speaker 1: you hear her husband saying, she started crying naturally. She said,
37:39
Speaker 1: all I care about and why for my husband and
37:41
Speaker 1: my career. Uh, that's after having sex with a student.
37:46
Speaker 1: You know, I want to find out what's happening now,
37:49
Speaker 1: Tom Ferguson, where does the case stand now? I guess
37:53
Speaker 1: the cheerleading coach Jennifer Hawkins Nancy, she's out on bond.
37:58
Speaker 1: You know, she posted that on Mar eighth, and she
38:01
Speaker 1: has her preliminary hearing set for March twenty eighth. So
38:04
Speaker 1: you know, as a local reporter here in Oklahoma City,
38:06
Speaker 1: I'm going to be keeping hind this case for sure.
38:09
Speaker 1: So Tom Ferguson, what's the potential sentence? I mean, with
38:12
Speaker 1: second degree rape and sex battery Nancy, it'd be one
38:15
Speaker 1: to fifteen years in prison plus registration as a sex
38:18
Speaker 1: offender for her if she's sound guilty. Now she charged
38:21
Speaker 1: with two offenses, second degree rape and sex battery. That
38:26
Speaker 1: is correct, two counts, so they could run consecutively, one
38:30
Speaker 1: after the other. We saw Judge Newman and the Alex
38:34
Speaker 1: Murdock case just sentence Alex Smurdock to two consecutive life sentences,
38:39
Speaker 1: one to run after the next. So right now she's
38:42
Speaker 1: out walking free. The damage done to this young boy,
38:46
Speaker 1: to her daughter, to the rest of her family, including
38:49
Speaker 1: her husband. That's a life sentence for them. We wait
38:53
Speaker 1: as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,