Latest / Admissions Straight Talk / The Fastest Way to Medical School Is Slowly: Avoiding Early Premed Mistakes [Episode 608]

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The Fastest Way to Medical School Is Slowly: Avoiding Early Premed Mistakes [Episode 608] · Admissions Straight Talk

• 0:00
  DrWherley: If we have pre-med or parents of pre-meds who are listening today and they have heard something that makes them feel uncomfortable or as if they are already off track with something that they are doing academically or experientially, what would you say to them?
• 0:17
  DrWherley: Welcome to Admittance Great Talk.
• 0:19
  DrWherley: I'm Dr.
• 0:20
  DrWherley: Valerie Worley, and today's topic is what are the main errors pre-meds make early in their approach to medical school?
• 0:28
  DrWherley: To chat with me about this topic is one of our medical school consultants from Accepted, Dr.
• 0:33
  DrWherley: Barry Rothman.
• 0:35
  DrWherley: Tune in to hear his opinion about majoring in public health as a pre-med and what his three favorite options are when pre-meds ask him how to gain patient-facing experience.
• 0:46
  DrWherley: I would like to thank Dr.
• 0:59
  DrWherley: Rothman for joining us on this podcast.
• 1:03
  DrWherley: He has been with Accepted for over 10 years and has a myriad of experiences in higher education to talk about.
• 1:14
  DrWherley: So thank you very much, Barry, for joining us.
• 1:17
  DrWherley: Today's topic is the following What are the main errors pre-meds make in their approach to medical school?
• 1:25
  DrWherley: And in us preparing for this topic, we realized this topic is huge.
• 1:31
  DrWherley: There is a very long list of potential errors pre-meds make or could make.
• 1:38
  DrWherley: So what we did today is we are going to narrow the topic a little bit and talk about what are the main errors pre-meds make early in their approach to medical school.
• 1:50
  DrWherley: And what we think we're going to do is make this a potential series that will talk about what errors pre-meds make early in their approach, while they're writing their application, during their secondaries.
• 2:04
  DrWherley: So we hope that everyone will join us for this series that could be very interesting.
• 2:10
  DrWherley: So we know preparing for medical school can feel like an overwhelming endeavor.
• 2:16
  DrWherley: And as students are maybe just starting their pre-med journey, we hope to give information to help students get on the right track now.
• 2:26
  DrWherley: So when we talk about these early thoughts, can you um where should we start talking today?
• 2:35
  DrRothman: Well, let's start with a quote that I have coined at Views Frequently.
• 2:40
  DrRothman: The fastest way to medical school is slowly.
• 2:44
  DrWherley: Excellent.
• 2:45
  DrRothman: There's no quick fix.
• 2:46
  DrRothman: There's no just, okay, next year I'm going to get ready and go apply to medical school.
• 2:52
  DrRothman: Uh, it really requires quite a bit of planning in terms of years.
• 2:57
  DrRothman: And we can break that down into different areas.
• 3:00
  DrRothman: One area to start with is your academics.
• 3:04
  DrRothman: Okay.
• 3:04
  DrRothman: Um med schools will require a certain set of courses called prereqs.
• 3:12
  DrRothman: And in general, that is a year of bio majors, introbio, lecture and lab, general chemistry, lecture and lab, physics, lecture and lab, and organic chemistry, lecture and lab.
• 3:28
  DrRothman: And some schools want a semester of calculus, so first semester calculus.
• 3:34
  DrRothman: And then there's some schools will want some other atypical prerequisite.
• 3:39
  DrRothman: So the first thing is, of course, to take the classes.
• 3:43
  DrRothman: Don't take prerequisite classes while you're applying because med schools won't see them on your primary application.
• 3:52
  DrRothman: So I guess one huge error that students make that my quote refers to is a sense of urgency.
• 4:01
  DrRothman: My friends are applying to medical school.
• 4:03
  DrRothman: Oh, I have to apply now.
• 4:05
  DrRothman: So a kind of peer pressure, and then certain parents like to pressure their kids to apply.
• 4:13
  DrRothman: You're ready, come on, what are you waiting for?
• 4:16
  DrRothman: But you have to be kind of thoughtful and relaxed about the process.
• 4:22
  DrRothman: It's a labyrinthine process, and so you need to think through and be ready for many different dimensions of the application process.
• 4:32
  DrRothman: So, as I said before, the academic part is really important.
• 4:36
  DrRothman: You need to take the prerequisite classes and you need to finish them, and of course, you need to do well with them.
• 4:44
  DrRothman: You don't have to have a 4.0 grade point average.
• 4:47
  DrRothman: Above 3.0 is good, helpful.
• 4:52
  DrRothman: 3.5 is probably a good benchmark.
• 4:55
  DrRothman: Some applicants are highly disadvantaged, and so a lower GPA could be tolerated by, but if you're not disadvantaged, you haven't had a lot of turmoil in your life, then you probably want to GPA of 3.5 or above.
• 5:12
  DrRothman: In the sciences, that's BCPM, biology, physics, chemistry, and that.
• 5:20
  DrRothman: And those are separated out in your primary application.
• 5:25
  DrRothman: So you want to have finished all the prereqs and have reasonably good grades in them.
• 5:30
  DrRothman: And of course, you need to have a bachelor's degree to to go into medical school.
• 5:37
  DrRothman: Almost every medical school will insist that you have a bachelor's degree.
• 5:42
  DrWherley: Right, right.
• 5:43
  DrWherley: I I uh tell my pre-med students or clients one of my most interesting applicants was a pre-med student who was a history major.
• 5:58
  DrWherley: And this particular client had a very interesting story, but was not a biology major or a chemistry major.
• 6:06
  DrWherley: Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
• 6:08
  DrWherley: Because a lot of clients say, is there a perfect major?
• 6:11
  DrWherley: Don't I have to major in something in STEM?
• 6:14
  DrWherley: And my history client had a lot of interest in his particular application.
• 6:21
  DrWherley: And he also did very well in his pre-med classes.
• 6:24
  DrWherley: What are your thoughts?
• 6:25
  DrRothman: Yes, that's a great example.
• 6:28
  DrRothman: Most pre-meds are by not because you have to be a biomajor, but because it's more efficient.
• 6:34
  DrRothman: Your history major majored in history, but also had to take all the med school prereqs.
• 6:40
  DrRothman: And so they had a larger course load.
• 6:44
  DrRothman: Which is fine.
• 6:45
  DrRothman: You should definitely major in what makes you happy, what interests you, and not feel that you have to major in biology, especially if you don't like it.
• 6:56
  DrRothman: One major that's quite good, uh, that's not in the STEM area, is public health.
• 7:01
  DrRothman: Because some of the extra coursework that you could take includes public health courses.
• 7:08
  DrRothman: Schools really like seeing people who understand the social dimension of healthcare and not just the molecules and cells of healthcare.
• 7:17
  DrRothman: So taking some public health classes is good, or even majoring in public health.
• 7:23
  DrRothman: Again, as long as you take the med school prerex.
• 7:26
  DrRothman: Now, let me add on that the prereqs alone are not enough.
• 7:31
  DrRothman: Most med schools will not look at somebody who only has the prerex.
• 7:37
  DrRothman: They want to see you take some elective classes.
• 7:40
  DrRothman: So by elective classes, usually in the STEM area, they're classes that most biomajors would take in order to graduate.
• 7:50
  DrRothman: For example, anatomy, physiology, cell biology, microbiology, etc.
• 7:58
  DrRothman: Those are what I what med schools call electives, but they're required often to graduate as a biomajor.
• 8:07
  DrRothman: So that's why being a biomajor is the most efficient way to prepare for, but certainly not the only way.
• 8:13
  DrRothman: And I think as the example of your history major, they bring other dimensions to the application.
• 8:20
  DrRothman: And that's something else to think about.
• 8:22
  DrRothman: What else are you doing?
• 8:23
  DrRothman: Because med schools don't want just a learning machine to be to admit to their school.
• 8:29
  DrRothman: They want somebody who has a social conscience, who's been out in the world and maybe had some crummy jobs or some interesting jobs, somebody who understands ideas of social justice, things like that.
• 8:44
  DrRothman: And of course, they want you to have some kind of clinical experience because you need to know what you're getting into as a career.
• 8:53
  DrWherley: Sure, sure.
• 8:55
  DrRothman: Many people gravitate towards doing research, and research is a great area, uh, and it's it's okay or even good to have some research experience.
• 9:07
  DrRothman: But I would say I would be cautious about over-emphasizing research.
• 9:13
  DrRothman: Because unless you're really involved in research as a physician, and that that's quite possible, but most med schools are not gonna train you to do research unless you're in a special program that is a sort of like an MD PhD.
• 9:31
  DrRothman: So they're gonna train you in the art of medicine, and so you need to know what you're getting into by having clinical experience.
• 9:39
  DrRothman: This is before you apply.
• 9:42
  DrRothman: Again, things that are ongoing are good, but the schools don't take them into account as much as things you've already done.
• 9:52
  DrWherley: Right, right.
• 9:53
  DrWherley: So again, you're highlighting another area that a pre-med needs to think about early on in their preparation for medical school.
• 10:02
  DrWherley: We're transitioning now into the experiential process or the experiential part of the application.
• 10:09
  DrWherley: So when you fill out your AMCAS application or ACOMIS, you have an area called work and activities or your extracurriculars.
• 10:18
  DrWherley: And this is where you can highlight the holistic nature of your application.
• 10:22
  DrWherley: And, you know, if I'm restating for you, what you're saying is you can come off as this really research-heavy applicant.
• 10:30
  DrWherley: And then the question that the adcom will make is, well, why don't you want to be a PhD candidate?
• 10:36
  DrWherley: So what about you says I have patient-facing experience and I know I want to practice medicine.
• 10:44
  DrWherley: And so, in order to counterbalance that, what would you suggest?
• 10:48
  DrRothman: Get a lot of clinical experience.
• 10:50
  DrRothman: Now, in the world of clinical experience, there's shadowing, which I think is very valuable for looking at different aspects of medicine, but it's not enough.
• 11:01
  DrRothman: Shadowing can be very passive.
• 11:04
  DrRothman: Some physicians whom you shadow will grill you and make you think about things and make you do reading ahead of shadowing, and those are the best mentors to have.
• 11:16
  DrRothman: But that doesn't always happen.
• 11:19
  DrRothman: And shadowing often is done over a period of a few days, not for weeks and months.
• 11:26
  DrRothman: So you need something more robust.
• 11:28
  DrRothman: Well, I have three favorite areas, uh, and I think these give really good intimate exposure into the healthcare scene.
• 11:36
  DrRothman: So one is being an EMT, where you uh transport, often transport patients and have intimate contact with an emergency department.
• 11:46
  DrRothman: You really see uh patients, some of them at their worst time in their life, often disadvantaged patients.
• 11:53
  DrRothman: So being an EMT is a really good uh area to go in.
• 11:58
  DrRothman: Doesn't pay well, but it does pay.
• 12:00
  DrRothman: Being a scribe is another area.
• 12:02
  DrRothman: You get to often be in the room with the physician and you're taking notes.
• 12:08
  DrRothman: You're very valuable to them and makes their note-taking, which makes practicing medicine really difficult.
• 12:15
  DrRothman: The paperwork, the electronic paperwork that they have to do now is crushing in some ways.
• 12:23
  DrRothman: And so having a scribe is a real treat.
• 12:26
  DrRothman: So they should treat you well and value your health as a scribe.
• 12:31
  DrRothman: And you can ask physicians that you work with uh for shadowing experiences, extras like that, and of course, maybe even ask them for a letter.
• 12:41
  DrRothman: And then there's being a medical assistant, which is being sort of in the back office uh navigating a practice, helping schedule patients.
• 12:52
  DrRothman: Sometimes you can actually do some hands-on clinical work, maybe even do some scribing, uh, but help organize the practice and work with other staff members, including nurses and PAs, etc.
• 13:08
  DrRothman: So those three areas are really the, in my opinion, the most fruitful clinical experiences to have, uh, ones that can last for well over a year, uh, so that you really know what you're getting into as a physician.
• 13:25
  DrWherley: I agree.
• 13:26
  DrWherley: And as a little bit of a preview, oftentimes it is from those experiences where you get some of the most meaningful stories where you get to pull uh answers for those secondary essays that come in the next phase.
• 13:43
  DrWherley: But we'll talk about that in a future podcast.
• 13:46
  DrRothman: Um, and also where the clinical experience is.
• 13:50
  DrRothman: It's good to have some clinical experience with disadvantaged population.
• 13:54
  DrRothman: It's fine to be in a regular hospital or uh even a boutique practice to see how things are done.
• 14:03
  DrRothman: But schools really like to see people who have social justice experience and understand what it's like to not have a lot of resources and deal with the healthcare system.
• 14:15
  DrRothman: So volunteering at a low-fee clinic, something like that, could be very valuable.
• 14:22
  DrRothman: Uh I mentioned being an EMT before.
• 14:25
  DrRothman: EMTs often see people who are at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum.
• 14:32
  DrRothman: And so uh that can be very valuable and be a highly robust experience.
• 14:39
  DrRothman: So you really need to think about getting this experience before you apply.
• 14:44
  DrRothman: Absolutely.
• 14:45
  DrWherley: So today we've highlighted errors or mistakes that pre-meds could make early on in their preparation for medical school.
• 14:54
  DrWherley: And we've talked about academics and we've talked a little bit about experiential.
• 15:00
  DrWherley: We could really talk a long time about experiential.
• 15:04
  DrWherley: Moving forward in other podcasts, we will talk about more application-based things that we would like to warn pre-meds about, thinking about letters of recommendation, timing of MCAT, personal statements.
• 15:22
  DrWherley: So that will be next up in our series.
• 15:25
  DrWherley: But what I'd like to end with today is a question for you, Barry.
• 15:30
  DrRothman: Can I add something first?
• 15:32
  DrWherley: Sure.
• 15:32
  DrWherley: Yeah, go ahead.
• 15:33
  DrRothman: So the other thing to get together while you're preparing to apply is to figure out who you are a good letter writer.
• 15:41
  DrRothman: And letter writers should know you as a person.
• 15:44
  DrRothman: So sometimes you take a course and it's just 300 people in the course, and the person teaching it doesn't know you very well.
• 15:53
  DrRothman: And it's a good idea to get to know your instructors without being obsequious, without sucking up to them, but to genuinely be interested.
• 16:04
  DrRothman: And so talking to them after class and talking to them during office hours is a good idea, but it needs to be genuine.
• 16:12
  DrRothman: I mean, they can snip out if you're just kind of preparing them to write a letter.
• 16:17
  DrRothman: And it's okay to tell them that you're a pre-med and you are looking for a letter.
• 16:23
  DrRothman: That would be fine.
• 16:25
  DrRothman: Think about the range of letters that you're getting.
• 16:28
  DrRothman: Of course, you need a clinical letter.
• 16:30
  DrRothman: Most likely you'll need an academic letter and maybe a social justice letter.
• 16:34
  DrRothman: When you apply to AMCAST, you can have as many as 10 letters.
• 16:38
  DrRothman: So, and you can mix and match them according to each school.
• 16:43
  DrRothman: So, putting some time into setting up your letter writers is really a good idea.
• 16:49
  DrRothman: And then one last thing I wanted to mention is look at osteopathic medical.
• 16:54
  DrRothman: Osteopathic medicine is really got a strong foothold here in the U.S.
• 17:02
  DrRothman: And there are many osteopaths practicing, and osteopathic medical schools are much more forgiving of MCAT scores, especially MCAT scores.
• 17:13
  DrRothman: So many applicants know nothing about osteopathic medicine, and it's quite effective.
• 17:21
  DrRothman: It tends to be primary care focused, it tends to be less invasive and more holistic in dealing with patients.
• 17:30
  DrRothman: And if that speaks to you, I think it's really a good idea to learn somewhat about that, because you might find that you're gonna only be able to get into osteopathic medical school.
• 17:44
  DrRothman: So keep that in mind and talk to somebody who knows about the differences between MD and DO.
• 17:51
  DrWherley: Correct.
• 17:51
  DrWherley: And if I can add on to that, please shadow a DO.
• 17:56
  DrWherley: If you're considering DO medicine, shadowing a DO gives specific insight into how DOs practice, why a DO went to medical school, where they went, and it can really help inform your decision.
• 18:13
  DrWherley: Potentially getting a letter from that DO will help your ACOMAS application.
• 18:18
  DrWherley: And opting for DO as your number one choice and not a backup, not a plan B will strengthen your application as well.
• 18:26
  DrWherley: So I concur with what you're saying.
• 18:29
  DrRothman: The Comas application now asks, did you apply to MD schools?
• 18:34
  DrWherley: Yeah, right.
• 18:37
  DrWherley: So you need to substantiate your choice for sure.
• 18:40
  DrRothman: Yeah.
• 18:40
  DrRothman: They know in reality, they know that a lot of their applicants also applied to MD schools, but they really cherish the ones that just applied to DOD.
• 18:51
  DrWherley: Of course.
• 18:52
  DrWherley: Of course.
• 18:52
  DrWherley: As we wrap up, I'd like to ask a final question.
• 18:55
  DrWherley: And that is if we have pre-med or parents of pre-meds who are listening today and they have heard something that makes them feel uncomfortable or as if they are already off track with something that they are doing academically or experientially or um potentially with letters of recommendation, what would you say to them?
• 19:17
  DrRothman: Contact me.
• 19:21
  DrWherley: Which they can do using links in our show notes, but any other words of wisdom or comfort?
• 19:28
  DrRothman: Sure.
• 19:28
  DrRothman: Any problem like that could be solved with time.
• 19:32
  DrRothman: I think um colloquialism I use with my applicants is take your foot off the gas pedal and put it on the brake pedal and slow things down, and you can repair anything.
• 19:46
  DrRothman: And it's much better to repair things before you apply than to have to be a re-applicant.
• 19:52
  DrRothman: Re-applicants can do quite well, by the way, but it's much more efficient and satisfying to be successful the first time you apply.
• 20:03
  DrWherley: Agreed.
• 20:04
  DrWherley: Thank you so much, Barry.
• 20:06
  DrRothman: Wonderful.
• 20:06
  DrRothman: It's great to be here.
• 20:08
  DrWherley: I'd like to thank Dr.
• 20:09
  DrWherley: Rothman for his specific commentary helping pre-med students get on the right path from an early start.
• 20:15
  DrWherley: I look forward to our future sessions on this same topic.
• 20:19
  DrWherley: For our listeners, if you would like to connect with Dr.
• 20:22
  DrWherley: Rothman or get free resources helpful for pre med students, please follow the links in our show notes.
• 20:29
  DrWherley: And thank you to everyone for tuning in.
• 20:31
  DrWherley: If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and share the podcast.
• 20:37
  DrWherley: We'll be back soon with more conversations to help you get accepted.