Latest / Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast / Parenting Without Parents: A Journey of Resilience with Dr. Justin Grimes

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Parenting Without Parents: A Journey of Resilience with Dr. Justin Grimes · Rise and Thrive with Dr. J. Nicole Podcast

• 0:20
  Nicole, where we are rising in faith and thriving in purpose.
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  Today I am joined by Doctor Justin Grimes, a native of
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  Little Rock, AR, who helps people build bridges between
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  education and workforce development so that they can
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  live lives of abundance. As a career coach, speaker, and
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  founder of Apply to Graduate School, he guides individuals
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  through the process of finding a graduate program aligned with
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  their goals, budget, and capacity.
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  All very important. Drawing on his own journey from
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  a 16 ACT score to earning a PhD, he believes your value reaches
• 1:01
  far beyond your zip code and models that truth.
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  As a proud husband to Doctor Tamika Grimes, a life member of
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  Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated and a father of his
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  favorite Co worker Jalen. Welcome Justin.
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  Excuse me, Doctor Grimes. Thank you so much.
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  I'm, I'm, I'm, it's such a pleasure, honor.
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  I'm excited to, to, to be here. I've been a fan and watching
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  from afar, so I'm glad to that we had this opportunity.
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  Absolutely, yeah. Shamika shared the feedback you
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  had sent about that, her episode that she did.
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  So I'm glad we could get you here today.
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  And just with this intro, just then you got a whole other
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  episode where we got to talk about your 16 ACT, the PhD
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  journey, for sure to inspire and uplift.
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  But today we're going to be focusing on a topic that's more
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  sensitive, also very important, and that is parenting without
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  parents. So, Justin, can you take us back
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  to the season where you lost your parents?
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  Yeah. So that time period, it's so
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  interesting. I got to and I got to go back
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  before then a little bit. So I met my wife while doing my
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  PhD at the University of Georgia and after we graduated, moved to
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  Virginia. We enjoyed our marital bliss for
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  a few months and found out we were expecting a child.
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  But yeah, I didn't waste no time.
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  Yeah, I didn't waste no time and that and that.
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  And unfortunately at 29 weeks that child did not make it.
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  And so it we had a still birth experience.
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  And so that was May of 2019. And then later on that August,
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  my, my dad's health started to take a turn.
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  My dad was type 2 diabetic, experienced kidney failure.
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  So he was on dialysis three days a week, usually Monday,
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  Wednesday, Friday. He had already had triple bypass
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  surgery, stents in his heart, amputations, just the fullest,
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  just anything that diabetes can take you through.
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  It took him. How about his vision?
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  Vision was, was another one of those challenges and issues that
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  he had. And the last thing was he had a
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  surgery in September of 2019. So I'm already just a few months
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  after experiencing what I thought was going to be my first
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  journey into fatherhood and not experiencing my dad's health
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  conditions. I'm living, you know, probably
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  almost 11 1/2 hours away. I'll never forget the moment
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  when I got a call. It was time to come back home
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  for him. I was sitting in the dentist
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  chair getting some some type of surgery done.
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  And even to this day, I just don't do well in dentist
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  offices. I am extremely anxious when I'm
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  in them because I'm expecting that vibration of my phone to go
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  off. I have nothing to, to be scared
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  of now, but I, I got out of there, I got the call, I saw who
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  was on there and I was like, something's not right.
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  I flew home and probably a couple of in September and a
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  couple weeks later he passed October the 9th.
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  And so that was difficult. You know, me and my father had a
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  good relationship like probably some other black males turning
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  to men. There's contention at times, but
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  we got, we got right. We got really right in the in
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  the last few years of, of his life and he was still married to
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  my mom. And that was the love of her
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  life that has spent, you know, 40 years in marriage.
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  And so that is a tough transition.
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  And around that October, she she shortly after that November, she
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  was saying, like, I'm experiencing this pain in my
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  leg. They say it's a sciatic nerve,
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  but I'm going to get some more tests done.
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  We're going to see. So we'll just come out to
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  Virginia for Thanksgiving. She came out.
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  That's when I saw like, her health wasn't necessarily great,
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  but in my thought process it was sciatic nerve.
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  This is something that's treatable.
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  We can go forward. Correct.
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  That January we go to a conference in Hawaii.
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  My, my, me and my wife, we're all excited.
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  I can't wait to get back to Virginia and send all the
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  macadamia nuts and things that I had got from Hawaii to share
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  with my family. And I'm on my way to the my
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  barbershop. My mom says, when you got a
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  second I got to talk to you about something.
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  It's like she's like, just tell me when you call me when you get
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  done. I was like, oh, it's not a
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  biggie. We can just talk about it now.
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  And she says, well, they say that I have cancer.
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  And I never forget those words that they say because I imagine
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  she didn't want to scare me. She didn't want to confirm what
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  she knew to be true. Yeah.
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  And it sat with me because she's like, oh, I have a thyroid
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  issue. And I'm like, oh, it's just
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  thyroid. OK.
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  Well, a lot of people have thyroid challenges and issues.
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  You have the surgery, the recoveries is for the most part
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  pretty quick. This shouldn't be an issue.
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  Three weeks later, my mother-in-law tells my wife that
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  she is also been diagnosed with cancer, Bowel duck cancer.
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  OK. So it's all these hitting and
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  Long story short, during the pandemic, I'm taking my mom to
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  cancer treatments, to get chemo, to radiology appointments, to
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  just everything being a full on caregiver, which is what she had
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  been for my dad for almost 10 years before he passed.
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  And she lost her battle on April the 18th of 2020.
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  And my mother-in-law passed in July of 2020.
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  So all of these like the passing of time is about 6 months
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  between my mom and my dad. Yeah.
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  So it was a lot happening during the pandemic in terms of
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  navigating all these health challenges amongst these two
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  women. Yeah, now, Justin, are you an
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  only child? I am.
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  So I'm a only child, but I am the youngest of 23 first
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  cousins. So I have, Oh my goodness, it's
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  a lot of us. We're kind of here.
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  They're everywhere. So I come from a big family.
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  I come from AI was raised, born and raised in the same
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  neighborhood, in the same St. in the same house.
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  So my neighbors are still there, The same ones that I grew up
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  with are still there, with the exception like one house has
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  changed and my parents house has changed since I sold it.
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  But I grew up around family, around friends, around people.
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  I tell people I was alone when I went to sleep, when I woke up.
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  But other than that, it was somebody always around, somebody
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  at the house, somebody. Yeah, because I never, I never
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  got only child vibes from you. But then I was like, I don't
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  ever remember Justin saying my brother, my sister.
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  Nah, nobody else but me. And that that connects.
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  So last weeks episode is focusing on being an only child.
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  My guest and I, Wilson spoke about that having aging parents
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  and being the only child and managing all of the different
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  things that are happening. Her father got a recent cancer
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  diagnosis. Her mom's health is slowly
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  declining, more doctor's appointments.
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  So these these, it just so happens that this is when you
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  all schedule that these episodes are connecting in this way and
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  really driving home something to like our generation that I think
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  a lot of people are being faced with.
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  And my mother has cancer. And right now, as we're
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  reporting this, we're preparing to transition her to Hospice.
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  I'm so sorry. So yeah, there is.
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  That's what I we said, how am I doing?
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  I said it's a lot happening in this world.
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  I understand. It's a lot happening in this
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  world. Yeah, Yeah.
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  So continue you. You know the.
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  Timeline is. Yeah.
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  But it's one of the things that's interesting when you
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  mentioned that is the same room that my dad was in for Hospice
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  was the exact same room my mom was in.
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  And so like, I had this feeling when I walked in, like, I know
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  this space all too well. And more importantly now more
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  than I probably previously knew is I can see what is to me, the
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  look of death on a person. I can see when a person is
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  slowly transitioning and people are like, how do you see?
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  That's like when you when you've been around enough people.
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  I might have 7 aunts and six uncles.
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  I've seen there's only two left. I've seen a lot of people.
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  And they give you document like what?
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  Well, when my aunt that raised me, so my my second mom, she was
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  in Hospice before she transitioned or that's where she
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  transitioned. They gave us this like pamphlet
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  about how to recognize the signs of transition and just like the
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  way that it goes. So what you're talking about, I
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  would imagine that it aligns with what was in that pamphlet.
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  Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
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  So what do you remember most about that time and how it
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  shaped you emotionally, spiritually, and personally?
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  Yeah, you know, that time period, I think more about my
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  mom. We were a lot closer.
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  I mean, we were probably thick as thieves.
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  And so I think about wanting more time.
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  More importantly, I thought about, OK, I understand my
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  father is gone. I understand your husband is
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  gone. And for 9 1/2 years your life
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  has been centered around taking care of this other individual.
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  At that time I held frustration and anger towards my dad because
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  I'm like you robbed what felt like you robbed 9 1/2 years of
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  opportunity for everyone. But also feeling like I know
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  this, this day and this time was coming for you sooner than
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  later. But then I also with my mom,
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  just felt this shock like, what do you mean you have cancer?
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  What do you what do you mean? And it's the it's the doctor's
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  appointment. I remember walking in my, my
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  neighbor came with us. And that's the time when I heard
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  the doctor say, Miss Grimes, just as a reminder, this is
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  stage 4 cancer. This is not treatable.
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  We are managing your symptoms, but there is no cure.
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  And I just remember him saying that and looking at her like
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  you. You didn't tell me the whole
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  truth. Yeah.
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  There's some pieces here that you were missing in that.
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  And I think about there were other people who were caring for
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  her at the time period and going back and forth because this is
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  early pandemic, so we don't quite know what the protocols
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  are. Protocols are.
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  I am, if any, bit thankful that we had the pandemic because I
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  couldn't imagine taking off time from work and trying to navigate
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  that. But yeah, I can.
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  I just remember the text message that my cousin's aunt sent me
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  who was caregiving for her and said there's nothing else I can
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  do for her. I need you to come as soon as
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  possible. Yeah.
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  I am no longer fit to care for her.
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  And I don't think she has long much longer.
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  So you need to be here. And I'm just like, yo, that's
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  not the text message I expected to get.
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  But listen, wife, it's time. I, you know, I know your mom is
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  going through something. I know you have your siblings
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  and your your dad here and I got my mom.
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  So like, what do we need to do? Is it we're splitting time?
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  Is it we're going to Arkansas for a little bit, then coming
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  back to Virginia and going to North Carolina?
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  Like what are we going to do? But in that moment, there was
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  not much of A debate or argument.
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  Just pack your stuff up. And I packed for like, I'm going
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  to be here for two or three weeks.
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  Yeah. And I just go and but I can.
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  I appreciated that time with her, you know, I was able to see
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  things of like, oh, OK, you are at a place where you are
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  experiencing sadness yourself because you know it, your time
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  is coming. So just be moments.
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  We would just sit together and she would like, smile and look
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  at me and she would say, you know, I'm going to be fine.
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  You know, here's everything. The beauty of my parents, really
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  my mom is she planned out everything.
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  OK. We had extensive conversations
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  over the years about here's my retirement accounts.
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  Here's the financial planner. Here's she had, she had written
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  out her obituary. She had written out her program.
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  This is for my for my her and my dad.
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  Like she had everything in order.
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  She she had a nice that cancer might hit her.
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  So she got a cancer policy. She was like, here's the policy.
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  It's going to pay out this much. This is what I need you to do
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  with this money. Here's here's access to every
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  password. Like she was thorough.
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  Wow, I've never heard somebody's parent be this proactive.
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  Oh, yeah, yeah. Like having a a will and a
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  trust. Like we went over this document
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  when she first got it done when I was in like a sophomore in
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  college. And then she got it updated as
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  people passed. And so then I knew the lawyer.
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  And so I had worked with him. Like I just, I had everything.
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  So I didn't have some of the stresses of planning this
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  transition that a lot of people would have because she had
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  everything in order. And I got to talk through, talk
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  it through with her in those last few days together.
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  OK, wow. So there's and I'm glad you
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  brought this back up. I think this is a common thing
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  that happens with families. I won't just say that is our
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  community where people downplay their health like the severity
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  of the health. Even when my with my mom, when
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  she got the initial diagnosis, it was lung cancer.
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  And then maybe about two months ago, she said they found it was
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  like they found a spot on one of the scans and then there's a
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  mass in my brain. So I was like, so you have brain
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  cancer? Mm.
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  Hmm, and I recognize that that's them trying to come to terms
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  with the reality too, even though we feel like you not
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  giving us all the information. Why are you playing with me?
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  Absolutely. Let's say what it is.
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  Let just let's. Just be honest and say exactly
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  what. This is say what it is and I
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  don't know what the doctor says. We don't have a traditional
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  relationship, so I'm not as involved with everything like
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  the way that you are. But you know, we have to call it
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  what it is. And nobody wants that.
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  But your mom, it sounds like she knew at some point this would
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  come come for her. I'm assuming there's a family
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  history there. Yes, there are some other of her
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  siblings that have passed for can't pass from cancer.
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  So I think that prompted her to make that decision.
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  And she just always was that thoughtful.
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  She's a former school teacher. She taught 30 years special Ed.
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  So, you know, attention to detail in that way, planning
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  things out. If I got to play in my
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  curriculum, I should play in my life.
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  So it's just she always was the organizer of not just our
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  family, but amongst her siblings.
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  Like she is the one that the glue that holds things together
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  for a lot of people. So yeah, it was it was to some
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  people that like how she had what now I'm like every, it's a
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  book. Everything is in there.
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  I know every page. I know every person.
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  I've read through the policies. I know exactly what's supposed
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  to happen when. Wow.
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  And all of us have a time, but it's one of those things that no
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  one really and truly wants to talk about, let alone organize
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  or even having that conversation.
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  Somehow you're wishing it upon people.
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  It's inevitable. And so it's still difficult.
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  So I could clearly hear how you talked about the emotional and
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  just like the personal part of it and how you and Tamika
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  navigated through that. How was your spirit during this
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  time? Yeah, You know, spiritually I am
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  confused. You know, I'm.
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  I'm not mad at God, but I'm also kind of like very curious.
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  I'm. I'm a good.
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  Base of like, so why now? You know?
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  Yeah. And like, why didn't you?
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  Why didn't you prompt her to say more about this sciatic nerve
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  that would have prompted me to then explore some things.
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  So like, what was I missing? Why wouldn't you give me the
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  assignment to be the help in this moment?
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  You know why would? They want you to be that.
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  Exactly right. And so like, why would you
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  choose an aunt or a neighbor or this person to be your
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  caregiver? But I, you know, that's kind of
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  just how they wanted me to exist in the world was.
• 19:59
  They never wanted me to be like locked down to being home.
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  It was like, go live your life. Like these are our choices and
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  we got to live with our choices. But our choices should not stop
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  you from going to do things. And that sounds good until you
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  reach a point where no, but I literally do got to stop some
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  things to come and tend to you. And so, you know, in in that
• 20:24
  moment. But, but in that moment, you
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  know, I have all these things, but I'm also very like faithful.
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  I'm, I'm a big believer in prayer.
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  And so I'm not praying in that moment to reverse course.
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  I can't when a person says this is not treatable, there's the
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  you can't reverse course. But what I am asking for in my
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  prayers is the strength to do things.
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  To pick her up and get her to the bathroom as quick as
• 20:51
  possible. To deal with the frustrations
• 20:54
  that she is not in complete control of her body or she
• 20:58
  doesn't have an appetite. To have the energy to show up on
• 21:02
  Zoom for work related activities, but then also make
• 21:05
  meals. To go to the same pharmacy that
• 21:10
  I've been going to as a kid to give updates to get medications.
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  And, you know, still to this day, I can call the same
• 21:17
  pharmacist and and we talked like I was a kid.
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  So it's just I, you know, if anything, I feel like God was
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  like, but you have everything you need.
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  You, you have everything you need.
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  This is my decision. This is the time.
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  And yeah, now is the time for you to make your decisions about
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  how you're going to manage this loss.
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  Yeah, which is a a great moment to segue.
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  But yet God does the things and I love that you're curious
• 21:53
  because people have the they think they can't be curious with
• 21:59
  God. He's our friend.
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  We can have conversation with him.
• 22:05
  Now don't get crazy, you know, because we still have to respect
• 22:09
  and Revere, but like really approach with curiosity and what
• 22:13
  I've learned when you can really take on that and be like a child
• 22:17
  and want to know and understand, not demanding, right?
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  But some people, they, they, they be hurting and they talk to
• 22:26
  God like I know all his children.
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  So if you respond that way, God's not surprised, but he'll,
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  he gonna get you together, but he'll, he will give you an
• 22:37
  answer. We do have the ability to be
• 22:43
  curious with God and he will answer us.
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  He absolutely will. But because we are programmed to
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  not question our parents, we definitely are like, I'm not
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  going to question God, but like there's so much in curiosity
• 22:56
  that allows for connectivity with God and just intimacy with
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  him because we're seeking and he tells us he's going to like, you
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  know, which our thirst, our hunger, we have to ask, seek,
• 23:11
  knock, right? So that's what you're doing.
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  But if you don't ask, then how, how are you going to get into
• 23:16
  that intimate relationship if you're not curious?
• 23:19
  That ties into resentment. It does.
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  And yeah, it does. So what were some of the early
• 23:27
  ways that grief started to show up for you?
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  Let's. See, I probably one of the
• 23:37
  things is wanting to call like my parents still one of those
• 23:41
  folks who had a home phone. So wanting to call and be like,
• 23:46
  let me tell you what just happened today or let me you
• 23:49
  know, did y'all go do this? And so that was one of those
• 23:53
  those moments where it would hit me.
• 23:56
  My mother and I both have a love for the grocery store.
• 23:59
  We like going in the grocery store.
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  We like catching a big deal. That's, that was our moment.
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  She would pick me up from school and on Fridays we would go to
• 24:09
  the grocery store and then we would pick up Popeyes or KFC for
• 24:13
  dinner or pizza or she would fry fish.
• 24:16
  And like that was the routine for most Fridays.
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  And so that was our, I feel like our space and time together.
• 24:25
  And over the years, it was like, you know, oh, I got this meat
• 24:29
  marked down for 50% off. And so we just would get excited
• 24:33
  about these deals and things that we would find.
• 24:36
  My mom was a couponer. And so it's like, whatever deal
• 24:39
  that I found, I'm like, Hey, make sure you go check that deal
• 24:41
  out. You know, they got this on sale
• 24:43
  this week. We just shared that
• 24:45
  relationship, that our relationship was around shared
• 24:48
  experiences that we had. And so, you know, when I'm, when
• 24:52
  I, when I wake sometimes go to the grocery store and see like
• 24:56
  boneless chicken on sale, I would just be standing there
• 24:59
  just like stuck because I can't call you and say, Hey, listen,
• 25:04
  let me check. Let me tell you about what I got
• 25:06
  here. You know, I have my mom's
• 25:10
  computer. I brought it back to brought it
• 25:13
  back with me to Virginia. And so times I would find files
• 25:16
  and I'd be like, what is this file?
• 25:18
  And it would just hit me in that moment, you know, holidays,
• 25:22
  Christmas was our favorite time of the year.
• 25:25
  My bigger immediate family has a, a big holiday dinner.
• 25:30
  And so like, she's not there. So that can be tough.
• 25:37
  And it just, it means it's random.
• 25:39
  It, it's, it's never for me predictable.
• 25:42
  But over time, through therapy, through time with God, I'm able
• 25:48
  to just, you know, work through those moments differently and be
• 25:55
  good with them. Do you mind expanding a little
• 26:01
  bit more on what it looks like to work through those moments
• 26:05
  for you? Yeah, you know, there are there
• 26:09
  are things with my child that I see that I'm like, huh, you
• 26:15
  resemble a, a aspect of your grandmother so much.
• 26:21
  And so in that moment, at times like I'm showing her pictures,
• 26:25
  I've shown her videos. So just so she sees my mother as
• 26:31
  active, but still cognizant that she's not physically here.
• 26:36
  And so a lot of times tears will come to my eyes or I will, you
• 26:41
  know, I don't hold back with with her if I start crying and
• 26:45
  she's like, oh, Daddy, you're sad.
• 26:46
  And I'm like, yeah, Daddy is sad because of this thing, right?
• 26:50
  And so I am very intentional about being articulate around
• 26:54
  what the feeling is. You know, at the time of
• 26:59
  recording this, my mom's birthday was yesterday.
• 27:02
  And so it would be hard for at the beginning to say, like,
• 27:07
  write anything. It would take me all day just to
• 27:11
  figure out what I would say because she would pop up on my
• 27:16
  Facebook like we Facebook friends.
• 27:17
  So you know her account would show up as the.
• 27:20
  Memories are best and the worst at times.
• 27:22
  Yeah. And so those things would,
• 27:24
  would, would show up. And, you know, I just find to
• 27:31
  take the time that I need in the moment.
• 27:35
  I allow myself to feel the feelings, to be emotional, to be
• 27:38
  frustrated, to be hurt, to cry. I allow myself to talk to my
• 27:44
  wife about it and share these things.
• 27:47
  You know, there's probably 1 video that I haven't watched all
• 27:52
  the way to the end and that's our wedding.
• 27:54
  Wedding video. OK, I've tried a few times, I
• 27:59
  just can't get through it. Yeah.
• 28:03
  It's a very tough. Time.
• 28:05
  Yeah, and it's because it's not just because my mom and her mom
• 28:09
  and my dad aren't, are there in the video.
• 28:13
  It's that there are other people who are no longer here that are
• 28:17
  also there. So it's just this huge memory of
• 28:22
  joy, but also loss. And so I see the loss more than
• 28:26
  I see the joy in what's captured.
• 28:29
  And so that makes it difficult, but I'm like, I, I, I want to
• 28:34
  watch it all the way through to just to be able to, to see, you
• 28:39
  know, all the faces in such an exciting moment.
• 28:42
  I mean, and that's a lot to take in at once.
• 28:45
  Like you talked about even kind of knowing what the transition
• 28:48
  looks like and I'm assuming some of those folks are in the video.
• 28:52
  So you're being faced with some of the most intimate and hardest
• 28:56
  losses all in one recording. Yeah.
• 29:01
  And so that's not anything you have to force yourself to do.
• 29:05
  And when it's time, you will be able to get through that.
• 29:09
  Yeah. And just for context, you
• 29:11
  referenced your daughter, right? So when did she come into the
• 29:15
  timeline with everything? Yeah, so Jalen came in 2022 and
• 29:25
  I found out on my birthday in 2021.
• 29:29
  What a gift. My wife just put that in a bag
• 29:33
  and I was like, Oh yes, if I'm honest, I did not like that
• 29:37
  gift. Not the the knowing that she was
• 29:39
  pregnant. It was like, I don't mind
• 29:41
  knowing. I just don't want that on my
• 29:43
  birthday. I just wanted to be sensitive.
• 29:45
  What else you got for me? Yeah, right.
• 29:48
  And so it it over over time, I've been like, that's funny,
• 29:51
  right? Like.
• 29:52
  But or are you like that was my gift to you.
• 29:55
  There we go there we go. But you know, she came into our
• 29:58
  life in in 2022. Her name is in Cap Ink, you
• 30:04
  know, really brings together all of them.
• 30:07
  OK, you know, the AI wanted to make sure my dad's name was in
• 30:13
  it and so his name, middle name was Ray.
• 30:16
  And so the spelling of her name is JAYLEN.
• 30:19
  So that AY captures that it's Lynn to reference my mom Linda.
• 30:27
  Her her middle name is so is a an homage to my mother in And so
• 30:36
  I keep their memories and their presence through her name.
• 30:42
  So we were real intentional with the naming of her.
• 30:45
  And I tell people it's, it's, it's a fun, it's a it's been a
• 30:49
  fun experience. You know, that's my my coworker,
• 30:53
  as I often refer to her as, but she is the joy, you know, and,
• 30:59
  and, and of my life. And I just get to see the world
• 31:04
  and parents in a way that allows me to take some of what I saw
• 31:10
  and experience as a kid, but also create a new version.
• 31:14
  That's probably one of the most difficult yet exciting things is
• 31:19
  that I don't have things to juxtapose.
• 31:23
  You know, I can't say now how was I when I was 2, you know,
• 31:27
  when, when I was when you were trying to get me to potty train
• 31:31
  or teething or any of these things that happened in these
• 31:34
  early stages. I don't have that context
• 31:37
  information, which can be challenging because I want to
• 31:41
  know, but it's also incredibly exciting because I get to create
• 31:46
  whatever I want it to be. And so I have moments where I'm
• 31:50
  like, oh, that's exactly how my mom would have responded to me
• 31:53
  or my dad would have responded to me based on something she has
• 31:56
  done or said or shown me. And I get to choose at that
• 32:00
  moment. Oh, OK, that's not, you know,
• 32:02
  probably the way I want to respond.
• 32:03
  It's, you know, maybe she did some she wasn't listening and my
• 32:06
  response isn't there. Or I could just she just has
• 32:09
  this look of like, I feel like you hurt my feelings or my
• 32:16
  feelings are hurt. So I'm always like, tell me how
• 32:20
  you're feeling. OK, so you're sad.
• 32:23
  Now describe to me what happened that made you sad.
• 32:26
  You said this to me or you yelled at me.
• 32:28
  OK, so I get to sit with that, but the child I grew up as my
• 32:33
  dad is like, listen, I don't care about your little tears.
• 32:36
  Just you should've did what I said do in the 1st place, you
• 32:40
  know? And so it's so it's so
• 32:41
  interesting to have these experiences in these moments
• 32:46
  with her and but also be sad at the same time.
• 32:50
  They're like, man, I wish I could just call them.
• 32:53
  I wish I could send pictures and send videos and let me tell you
• 32:57
  what, she did this and you know, it's things I want.
• 33:00
  I want her to call and say daddy did this and it made me mad like
• 33:03
  I want. I wanted those things and those.
• 33:06
  Just yeah, yeah. And it'll all make sense at some
• 33:14
  point, like because like we have to live through it, right?
• 33:19
  And like just thinking about what you were saying about just
• 33:22
  like asking out, like, why now? Why at this time, right?
• 33:26
  Like I can think of obvious things.
• 33:28
  Well, I guess you wouldn't have been old enough to remember, but
• 33:33
  I can imagine how they might feel not having the photos of
• 33:36
  them, like holding her and different things.
• 33:39
  I was going to say she didn't have to go through that loss,
• 33:41
  but she might have been too young to remember it, right?
• 33:44
  But I would have had those photos.
• 33:47
  But yeah, God's timing. It'll make sense at some point.
• 33:52
  But also, she her name. And I think honestly, Justin is
• 33:56
  probably tied to her. She wouldn't have the name that
• 34:00
  she has if they were all there. And you know, all of us, I
• 34:06
  believe, are a version of or a mix of our ancestors prayers.
• 34:13
  And we don't always have the luxury of knowing what those
• 34:16
  prayers were for us and what they hoped for future
• 34:19
  generations and for building legacy.
• 34:23
  But Jalen wouldn't be Jalen if they were here.
• 34:29
  And already she embodies them. And I, I just imagine you're
• 34:33
  only gonna see that more as she continues to grow and mature and
• 34:39
  these things are gonna come out naturally.
• 34:41
  Mm hmm. And that's going to speak even
• 34:44
  more to just like how amazing God is and the way he works
• 34:48
  because there's no way she, she didn't know, you know, she
• 34:51
  wasn't, she wasn't exposed. So I look forward to seeing her
• 34:54
  grow up. And anytime I, I, you know, get
• 34:58
  a little snippet of her or you're, you know, speaking and
• 35:01
  sharing about her and social media, it really just forms my
• 35:04
  heart. Yeah, that's my homie.
• 35:08
  Yeah, and I love how you're parenting her and teaching self
• 35:15
  respect at the same time. You're teaching her emotional
• 35:19
  intelligence, how to speak about our emotions.
• 35:21
  You're teaching her boundaries and how to be able to express
• 35:25
  the people later in life what they've done, how they've made
• 35:28
  her feel. She'll be less likely to be in
• 35:31
  unhealthy friendships and relationships and in the
• 35:35
  workplace in every area of her life because she'll know how to
• 35:39
  communicate these things. And those are things that we've
• 35:44
  had to learn. So I think another good thing
• 35:48
  that's coming out of this is you're and parenting her.
• 35:52
  You're kind of re parenting yourself too.
• 35:55
  Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Probably one of the biggest ones
• 35:59
  that probably a lot of Black households have challenges with
• 36:02
  is eat everything on your plate. The the plate was a battle and
• 36:08
  you know, in the beginning and now it is like, here's what's
• 36:12
  presented. You go eat.
• 36:14
  You eat this or you just be hungry, or you just don't or you
• 36:18
  know what she's. Making choices.
• 36:20
  Or you. Yeah, or you just don't eat
• 36:21
  that. You know, it's we have a candy
• 36:24
  bucket. She's like, can I go to my
• 36:25
  bucket? And I was like, here, the here,
• 36:27
  here's what has to happen for you to do that.
• 36:29
  And so she's aware I'm not going to get my bucket today.
• 36:33
  No, and that's but that's OK. And the way I was raised like,
• 36:36
  you know, you're going to clean that plate and you're not giving
• 36:38
  up from here until you clean that plate.
• 36:41
  And if you don't clean that plate, it's going to be some
• 36:43
  problems. And so.
• 36:45
  And the plate was probably overfilled to begin with.
• 36:49
  Oh, guaranteed it was and it just wasn't necessary.
• 36:54
  You know, I am and to a point in my life, my parents were a lot
• 37:01
  more affectionate with me. I, I, I know the exact moment
• 37:06
  when things shifted is when my dad was laid off from his job
• 37:10
  when I was in 6th grade. And so that's when I feel like
• 37:14
  that emotional, an emotional disruption took place between
• 37:19
  him and my mom, but also between me and him, her and me, because
• 37:26
  I just think that he was struggling to process and deal
• 37:31
  with this, this loss. It's like, yo me, you know.
• 37:35
  And so one of the things that I try to make sure that I keep
• 37:38
  with her is emotional availability, emotional
• 37:42
  vulnerability. Like, yes, you can hug and kiss.
• 37:45
  Yes, we can get in each other's faces and be noses and we can
• 37:49
  cuddle and we can hang out. And yes, you can tell me not
• 37:52
  right now and get away. And I don't want to hug.
• 37:55
  I'm OK with all of that because I want you to feel safe in this
• 38:01
  environment. I want you to feel loved.
• 38:05
  And I want that to extend through all your years.
• 38:10
  And I can repeature these moments where I had that with my
• 38:13
  parents very early on, But I what I into your point of re
• 38:17
  parenting myself is that I am providing myself the emotional
• 38:22
  vulnerability and, and needs not through her, but like allowing
• 38:27
  that to take place correct, Not shunning away from like, you
• 38:31
  know what? I do need a hug because
• 38:32
  sometimes I'll just go to her and say I daddy needs a hug and
• 38:36
  she'll come and give me one. I don't know if I would would be
• 38:41
  comfortable or would have done that with my mom or dad.
• 38:46
  I would just throw it on there and just go give them one, you
• 38:49
  know, But the invitation, I don't know if that was there.
• 38:53
  Yeah, that's that. I like that you pointed out that
• 38:56
  nuance, right, Like that awareness and it takes another
• 39:01
  level of vulnerability to speak the need versus just do it.
• 39:05
  Yeah. So what have you learned about
• 39:10
  grief that you wish someone would have told you sooner?
• 39:15
  Oh, that's a that's a really good one.
• 39:24
  I know that everybody doesn't grieve in the same way, but what
• 39:29
  I have, I wish someone told me based on where I'm at now, is
• 39:34
  that you may experience abandonment in places where you
• 39:40
  thought you would experience comfort and love.
• 39:44
  Same. More.
• 39:46
  So at the time that I was when I was working and I lost my
• 39:51
  father, when we lost the child, the first pregnancy, I received
• 39:56
  flowers from my job, nobody came.
• 40:00
  So we had a funeral. Nobody came at when my dad
• 40:03
  passed, nothing when my mom passed, nothing when my wife.
• 40:11
  My card. Not a card, nothing.
• 40:14
  When my mom passed a, her couple of her coworkers actually came.
• 40:17
  They showed up. They showed up for not just her,
• 40:20
  but for me. Even with my own passing, they
• 40:23
  showed up. And so that's that abandonment
• 40:26
  that you're like, I see you every day, I'm with you every
• 40:30
  day, five days a week. And I don't know what happened.
• 40:34
  I don't know what was shared or wasn't shared.
• 40:36
  But regardless of the fact, minimally, I just feel like some
• 40:39
  type of outreach is important for from a person who's
• 40:43
  experiencing a loss. And to that, that right there
• 40:48
  was like a deep blow. It took a while to get over it.
• 40:53
  It it created a ripple in relationships, sure.
• 40:59
  A distrust. So when I left that job, I was
• 41:02
  like, cool, because in this moment where I'm hurting you,
• 41:06
  you didn't show up. And I get it's the pandemic,
• 41:09
  everybody's got things going on. But even for my father, this was
• 41:12
  not pandemic times. And so I wish someone would tell
• 41:16
  me that during this time period and more immediately, it's going
• 41:20
  to begin to expose potentially for you who's there and who's
• 41:25
  not there and be OK with being surprised who shows up with a
• 41:30
  high level of care and empathy and their spirit, their spirit
• 41:35
  is actually comforting. Their words are actually
• 41:38
  comforting. Some people going to give you
• 41:41
  some chicken, some people going to give you a hug.
• 41:43
  Some people will give you nothing.
• 41:46
  So just be open to the fact that people may not show up for you
• 41:51
  how you anticipated you would think.
• 41:53
  You need people to show up for you, but if people do, but know
• 41:57
  that somebody does care, they may not know how to deal with it
• 42:01
  or express it or share it, but just find a way to be open as
• 42:05
  possible. And if you don't want something,
• 42:07
  it's OK to say thank you so much.
• 42:10
  Not at this time. I turn around a lot of food,
• 42:12
  like we're food out. We good.
• 42:14
  We don't need another Bozhangles box and nothing else.
• 42:17
  I'm fine. But you know what?
• 42:20
  And and and but that that can be tough because he was like, how
• 42:22
  come you're not giving it? But I'm like, but what you could
• 42:24
  do that would actually be really helpful is this thing and I need
• 42:29
  somebody who can do this thing or you know, I as was big on
• 42:33
  like finding people. I'm like, OK, my home church
• 42:37
  back in back in Arkansas, they don't want to do all this pastor
• 42:41
  because we have a great relationship.
• 42:43
  I need you to manage that piece. I don't want to have to be
• 42:46
  managing that. And he took it on and he
• 42:50
  blocked. He stopped people and he just,
• 42:53
  he did what I needed and so. You being able to identify that
• 42:58
  and ask is crucial in that because you would have never got
• 43:02
  it if you weren't able to say, hey, this is what I need.
• 43:08
  Yeah. Yeah, you, you doing some, some
• 43:11
  really good and healthy, healthy things in there for sure.
• 43:16
  I quitted therapy, you know, I was in therapy before the loss
• 43:19
  and I've been in therapy since, so it helps.
• 43:24
  Yeah, it absolutely does. What happens when with the
• 43:28
  abandonment that you were talking about, the experience of
• 43:30
  that? Because I think sometimes we
• 43:34
  expect people to show up in certain ways and when they
• 43:38
  don't, that really hurts. And I love how you're
• 43:41
  encouraging the audience to really lean in to who does and
• 43:47
  who does not because some people, they suffer because they
• 43:51
  won't even appreciate or be able to really enjoy what has been
• 43:56
  presented that God has sent you help, just not in the way that
• 44:00
  you expected for focusing on who did not.
• 44:05
  And it hurts. It does.
• 44:08
  You're already in pain. People that you think they're
• 44:10
  like they're going to ride through you.
• 44:12
  You barely hear from them, hear from them.
• 44:14
  And then I think it's also an opportunity to see them as they
• 44:21
  are with what they have and what they don't.
• 44:25
  It doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship may have to
• 44:28
  end, but it'll definitely shift. And it's important to see people
• 44:34
  like, I think sometimes we mistake how long a person has
• 44:37
  been in our life and the different things they've seen us
• 44:41
  through. Then we think that they're
• 44:42
  supposed to be there for everything.
• 44:45
  And some people are, they're not equipped for that.
• 44:47
  So we can mistake like the longevity for emotional support.
• 44:54
  And it's like, no, some people don't have it.
• 44:56
  They go quiet because they don't know what to say.
• 45:00
  They do. And it hurt I.
• 45:02
  Wasn't mad at them because of that because maybe that's what
• 45:05
  you needed to do in that moment in time.
• 45:07
  I don't know how this hearing, this loss has affected or
• 45:11
  impacted you. So let me not tell you how you
• 45:16
  should be showing up in this moment.
• 45:17
  Let me just if silence is where you are, that's where you are,
• 45:21
  and I'm going to be OK with that.
• 45:23
  And I think that's another time to be curious when the time is
• 45:25
  appropriate. So 'cause sometimes you want to
• 45:28
  ask, well, what happened? Where were you not a, how could
• 45:32
  you not be there for me? You know, some people, they'll
• 45:34
  turn it into that. But like, I thought that you
• 45:37
  would have been one of the people to show up.
• 45:40
  What happened? This seemed out of character for
• 45:42
  you to go silent, to give them an opportunity to express.
• 45:48
  Yeah, yeah. I think that is a good.
• 45:50
  That is a good one. So we didn't go deep into this.
• 45:55
  It kind of came up organically. But are there any moments that
• 46:00
  you can think of where it really hit that I'm parenting and
• 46:05
  they're not physically here to witness it?
• 46:07
  And if so, like, what were some of those moments and how was it?
• 46:11
  Oh, that's every week. Every week is, is, is something
• 46:16
  you know, I'm, I'm taking you to, I'm taking her to swim
• 46:22
  classes. What, what was your thoughts
• 46:26
  when you took me to these soccer practice or baseball practice or
• 46:30
  basketball? Like were there moments you were
• 46:33
  just like, I just wished it would rain And you don't have to
• 46:35
  go like, I'll just, you know, I got these questions about how do
• 46:40
  you manage that piece of it? You know, now you're, you're,
• 46:44
  I'm, I'm growing and evolving. How did you all make decisions
• 46:48
  around my growth and development?
• 46:50
  How did you pick my preschool? Was it out of convenience
• 46:54
  because it was down the street? Was it because of relationship?
• 46:57
  What was it, you know, you know, how did you manage your job?
• 47:03
  I mean, you're an employee, but you're also parents and you're
• 47:06
  also married. So like, how did you manage
• 47:09
  that? And if there's a, a moment of
• 47:11
  concern or contention with me and my wife, I'm just like, huh.
• 47:17
  But we still got to deal with this child too.
• 47:19
  So how do we? Yeah.
• 47:20
  Navigate that. So you know, that happens.
• 47:23
  Birthdays, you know, just birthdays, events.
• 47:26
  I'm like, oh, you're not here. And so, you know, I would want
• 47:31
  you to be a part of that, that that hits me.
• 47:34
  And I would say probably the biggest moments are really
• 47:38
  around when I am dealing with uncertainty.
• 47:44
  OK, I'm not sure what's going to happen next with this thing.
• 47:47
  I don't know if this is the, the, the right decision.
• 47:53
  I think this, my wife thinks this love to have that insight
• 47:57
  because my parents for me were my safe space.
• 48:02
  They were the people that I could, you know, say it how I
• 48:05
  want to say it, when I want to say it and, and know that even
• 48:09
  if we disagree, they're still love.
• 48:12
  Yeah. But you know, my mom always had
• 48:15
  this rule. She said give it 24 hours and
• 48:17
  pray, pray and give it 24 hours and then come down.
• 48:21
  And so there are moments where I'm like, I need that.
• 48:24
  I need that call. I need you to say that thing
• 48:29
  because we're trying to, you know, figure out this thing.
• 48:34
  Yeah, my mom and my my wife had a great relationship.
• 48:37
  So there's things about being a mother and A and a wife that I
• 48:42
  wish that they were able to still have those conversations.
• 48:48
  So those are probably the things that that hit me the most that
• 48:52
  I'm like, yeah, you know, or and going home, I don't go back as
• 48:56
  much. It was probably tougher when I
• 49:00
  when I sold my parents house, but that was that was in the
• 49:03
  book sell my house. Don't you keep?
• 49:07
  Out. Sell that house, go on with the
• 49:10
  rest of your life. Don't you rent it just and
• 49:13
  people like you should rent that.
• 49:14
  Oh, this would be a great rental property.
• 49:16
  But you don't know, the conversations we had, they were
• 49:18
  very clear. Sell my house, sell my cars, go
• 49:22
  on about the rest of your life. And so that right there was
• 49:27
  always interesting. So when I do go home, I go see
• 49:30
  my neighbors. I spent extensive time with the
• 49:32
  people that raised me besides my parents, and I see new occupants
• 49:37
  at the house. And I'm like, wow, I'm never
• 49:40
  going to be able to just take my child and pull in that driveway
• 49:44
  and open the garage and walk through the door.
• 49:47
  I'm not going to be able to show you my room.
• 49:49
  I'm not going to be able to show you where we set up Christmas.
• 49:52
  I'm not going to be able to have the dinners there.
• 49:54
  And like, that's tough. But each time I go it gets
• 49:58
  easier. Yeah, there's so much in there.
• 50:03
  Your mom, hey, sell Your mom was a real one.
• 50:06
  She said, don't you keep my house, You sell it.
• 50:11
  And she gave you some sage advice.
• 50:14
  Pray and wait 24 hours. Come back for Part 2 of
• 50:19
  Parenting with Our Parents with Doctor Justin Grimes.
• 50:23
  See you next week.