Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / High Velocity Spatter Place Lawyer Alex Murdaugh At Grisly Murder?

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High Velocity Spatter Place Lawyer Alex Murdaugh At Grisly Murder? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Bombshell. In the Alex Murdog
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Speaker 1: investigation in South Carolina, everything went quiet for a moment,
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Speaker 1: even after his wife, Maggie, and his son end up
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Speaker 1: dead on his estate, his hunting mansion after he ends
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Speaker 1: up with a bullet wound to the head miraculously survives.
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Speaker 1: Right now, new evidence blood spatter evidence, does it directly
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Speaker 1: link the drugged up lawyer Alex Murdog to the double
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Speaker 1: murders of his wife and his own son. I Nancy Grace,
0:59
Speaker 1: this it's Crime Stories, Thank you for being with us
1:02
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Series XM one eleven. We're
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Speaker 1: learning all this from a source FIT News, and I
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Speaker 1: want to go straight out to Matt Harris, Matt the
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Speaker 1: morning show host of The Matt and Ramona Show one
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Speaker 1: O seven point nine wl n K podcast The Murdoch
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Speaker 1: Family Murders. Matt, what is happening? Well, according to Fitz News,
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Speaker 1: they're the ones who reported this that there's forensic evidence
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Speaker 1: on his clothing and it could only have come from
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Speaker 1: blood spatter. They are reporting that there's been multiple tests
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Speaker 1: done and proves that Alec was at least near the bodies.
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Speaker 1: When are one of the bodies when they were shot
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Speaker 1: and killed in June. Let's hand, as Matt Harris, joining
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Speaker 1: us from w L and K just said, blood spatter.
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Speaker 1: There's a lot of different kind of blood spatter. There
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Speaker 1: is I drop, I drop a jar of ketchup in
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Speaker 1: the glass and it's spatters. Then there's what we call
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Speaker 1: high velocity blood spatter. Completely different thing, because high velocity's better.
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Speaker 1: You probably can't even see it with a naked eye.
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Speaker 1: It's like a mist, but it hits, for instance, in
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Speaker 1: this case, his shirt in a different way than other
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Speaker 1: spatter would hit. So let me understand, Matt Harris, a
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Speaker 1: morning show host, Matt Romono w L and K. You're
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Speaker 1: attributing to fit and to use the report that a
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Speaker 1: shirt worn by Alex Murdock, the drugged up lawyer who
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Speaker 1: we now think embezzled literally millions of dollars from his clients,
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Speaker 1: the shirt worn on the night his wife and son
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Speaker 1: were murdered, not only has high velocity blood spatter, A
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Speaker 1: significant amount of high velocity blood spatter. Is that what
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Speaker 1: you're telling me. That's what Fitznews is saying. The high
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Speaker 1: velocity impact spatter was specifically high velocity. Now we know
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Speaker 1: that Alec touched the bodies at least according to him
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Speaker 1: in the nine one one call that night, So that
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Speaker 1: would be on his shirt and pants maybe as well.
3:27
Speaker 1: But they're saying there is the high velocity impact spatter
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Speaker 1: on that shirt would puts them right in the proximity
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Speaker 1: of either one or both victims when they were shot. Yes,
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Speaker 1: straight up to Jesscot, I'm Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University,
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Speaker 1: author Blood Beneath My Feet, host of a hit series
3:44
Speaker 1: Body Backs. To Joscot, I'm Morgan on iHeart Jes Scott
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Speaker 1: tell me a lot. It's telling me not only was
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Speaker 1: he about within thirty six inches of the bodies of
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Speaker 1: the dead people, his wife and his son, but he
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Speaker 1: was there when they got shot. Yeah, he was. And
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Speaker 1: that's that's what's being at least implicated here are implied
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Speaker 1: relative to this finding when you start to talk about
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Speaker 1: high velocity blood spattered Nancy, for our listeners at home,
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Speaker 1: just think about this, right you were when you mentioned
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Speaker 1: that it's very fine, very difficult to see. If anybody
4:24
Speaker 1: has an aerosol hairspray container at home, go to your
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Speaker 1: mirror and sep it's at one time very lightly and
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Speaker 1: it particulates, and that's generated from a high end energy impact,
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Speaker 1: and it's generally associated in most every single time I've
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Speaker 1: seen it is always associated with gunfire. That means that
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Speaker 1: it has to reach a certain level of velocity to
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Speaker 1: impact that body to spray that blood out. If you're
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Speaker 1: anywhere in proximity to that, And you mentioned about thirty
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Speaker 1: six inches, that's kind of the standard, it's going to
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Speaker 1: literally blow out and miss to file all. Wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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Speaker 1: Not everybody in this studio. Let's just talk about Jackie
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Speaker 1: sitting right there going what what you just ran over?
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Speaker 1: Thirty six inches? We standardize thirty six inches? What do
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Speaker 1: we mean by that? When you shoot the spatter will
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Speaker 1: travel about thirty six inches past that it starts to
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Speaker 1: dissolve in the air or drop to the ground, which
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Speaker 1: tells us. And this is after years and years and
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Speaker 1: years of exhaustive experimenting, we know that if you've got
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Speaker 1: blood spatter, you are three feet or less to the
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Speaker 1: point of impact bullet to body. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Blood,
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Speaker 1: unlike a boy, unlike a bullet, has horrible, horrible aerodynamic qualities.
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Speaker 1: So a bullet can spin through the air and go
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Speaker 1: for a long long ways. But the way this this
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Speaker 1: liquid very viscous, thick liquid substance. Even when it's it's
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Speaker 1: mystified like this, it doesn't hold together very well. And
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Speaker 1: so after about thirty six inches it's lost its velocity,
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Speaker 1: but it's still particulate like this. Yep, yep, you're absolutely right,
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Speaker 1: just like the hair spray I was referring to. So
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Speaker 1: that gives you an indication, Nancy, that if this is true,
6:27
Speaker 1: if what they're saying is true, they would have had
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Speaker 1: to have tested the shirt, looked at it very carefully
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Speaker 1: under you know, like probably alternative lighting sources like ultra
6:37
Speaker 1: violet and that sort of thing, to be able to
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Speaker 1: pick this up. It'll kind of loominate and they'll get
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Speaker 1: they'll get an idea of the distribution of this pattern
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Speaker 1: as well. And maybe what are you saying the distribution
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Speaker 1: of the pattern, Well, it'll give you an idea of
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Speaker 1: instances regular people talk. It will give you an idea
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Speaker 1: perhaps relative to his position to the bodies when this
7:00
Speaker 1: weapon was fired, or whoever was wearing the shirt. They
7:03
Speaker 1: have a shirt, pants, whatever the clothing is. When they
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Speaker 1: begin to examine it, and they'll also look at the concentration. Nancy,
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Speaker 1: keep in mind, as you've said many many times before,
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Speaker 1: you always use the analogy and I love this of
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Speaker 1: the water hose where you spray it, the tighter that grouping,
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Speaker 1: the closer the individual is. So if it's tightly concentrated,
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Speaker 1: that means that the proximity of the individual that it's
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Speaker 1: on the receiving end of this spatter. Okay, And they're
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Speaker 1: saying this Alec that it's going to be very tightly concentrated.
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Speaker 1: The closer he is to the body, further way it
7:37
Speaker 1: will be spread out thirty six inches. It's about an
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Speaker 1: arm's length, that's what we're talking about, which makes perfect sense.
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Speaker 1: You're holding the gun, you shoot, and they're not saying
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Speaker 1: is it on the chest? Isn't on the sleeve of
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Speaker 1: the shirt they we're talking about Timy. When was he
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Speaker 1: caught he who says he was at his dad's bedside
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Speaker 1: in the hospital. Is he caught on video wearing the
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Speaker 1: same shirt or a different shirt? And when can we
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Speaker 1: identify he was wearing so the purported bloody shirt the
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Speaker 1: night his wife and son were killed. You know what,
8:09
Speaker 1: before we go too deep, into blood spatter. We're gonna
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Speaker 1: reath visit. I want you to hear that very night now.
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Speaker 1: If this is true what Phitney's is reporting. But we're
8:20
Speaker 1: hearing from our friend Matt Harris, wl NK. If it's true,
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Speaker 1: that means he was at the body at the time
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Speaker 1: of the shooting. That particular blood spatter marking cannot be
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Speaker 1: created in any other way. It's not a transfer where
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Speaker 1: he reached out and hugged the bodies or touched the bodies.
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Speaker 1: It's not a drop. For instance, in Travis Alexander, when
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Speaker 1: blood he was aspirating blood up from all the stabs
8:51
Speaker 1: in his chest, his lungs were filling up with blood.
8:54
Speaker 1: Travis Alexander goes to his bathroom mirror and looks at
8:58
Speaker 1: himself as he is dying, and drips down from the
9:03
Speaker 1: mouth or the nose, and we see drop marks. It's
9:06
Speaker 1: not an orb it's a spatter. Big difference under a microscope.
9:12
Speaker 1: But wait a minute. If what Fitt and Us is saying,
9:15
Speaker 1: if what Matt Harris is reporting it's all correct, then
9:20
Speaker 1: Alex Murdock managed to call nine one one and say this,
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Speaker 1: take a listen forty one forty sl mozel road. I
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Speaker 1: need to belie my wife and jo stop bad. Okay,
9:46
Speaker 1: you said, forty one seven Mobile Rod in Olin. Sir.
9:52
Speaker 1: You said forty one forty seven Mozel Rod in Olpin. Yeah, sir,
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Speaker 1: forty one Mozel Road, Yeah, Thursday. On the line with me, okay, communication,
10:05
Speaker 1: and I have an Alex Murdock on a lie callers
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Speaker 1: from forty one forty seven Moze Road. He's advising that
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Speaker 1: his wife and child was shot. Okay again, forty one
10:18
Speaker 1: forty seven Mozelle Road. I've been up to it now,
10:22
Speaker 1: is bad okay? Okay? And are they breathing? No, ma'am okay.
10:29
Speaker 1: And he said it's your wife and your son, My
10:32
Speaker 1: wife and my storn. Are they in a vehicle? No, ma'am,
10:37
Speaker 1: their own ground, out of my kennel clime stories with
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Mother. Forty one forty seven Mozelle Road. I
11:03
Speaker 1: think the belief my wife and to stop that, okay,
11:10
Speaker 1: you said, forty one forty seven Mortile Road in Alton. Sir.
11:15
Speaker 1: You said forty one forty seven Mozelle Road in Alton. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: forty one Mozelle Road, Yeah, Thirsty on the line with me, okay, Collinson,
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Speaker 1: I have an Alex Murdoch on the line, caller from
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Speaker 1: forty one forty seven Mozall Road. He's advising that his
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Speaker 1: wife and child was shot. Okay, forty one forty seven
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Speaker 1: Mozelle Road. I've been up to it now, it's bad. Okay, okay.
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Speaker 1: And are they breathing? No, ma'am, okay, he said, it's
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Speaker 1: your wife and your son. My wife and my son.
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Speaker 1: Are they in a vehicle? No, man, their own ground,
12:02
Speaker 1: out of my kennel. You know what, There's just some
12:07
Speaker 1: things in life you just can't get enough off and
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Speaker 1: hearing Alex and murdog. If fit News is right, and
12:14
Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe they're not right, think
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Speaker 1: about this guy making this nine on one call when
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Speaker 1: according to the blood and the blood doesn't lie, his
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Speaker 1: shirt is covered and high velocity blood spatter. Take a listen.
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Speaker 1: Here he is again. He just can't talk enough. Canny Okay?
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Speaker 1: Is he bringing that all? No? No one? Okay, no, ma'am, no, ma'am.
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Speaker 1: No color is your house on the outside? What color
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Speaker 1: is your house on the outside? What you can't see
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Speaker 1: it from the road? Okay? Is it a house or
13:02
Speaker 1: boble home? The house? Okay? And what is your name?
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Speaker 1: My name is Alex Murdoch. Okay, did you hear anything finger?
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Speaker 1: Did you come home and find them? I've been gone,
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Speaker 1: I just came back. Else, No, ma'am, We hurry, We're
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Speaker 1: getting somebody out there to you. Oh. Bobby Chicome Bobby
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Speaker 1: chi Coom, Bobby Chicomb nearly thirty years former FBI asian
13:45
Speaker 1: at Bobby chicoone dot com, Bobby Bobby, Bobby. Oh, how
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Speaker 1: I would love to be a fly on the wall
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Speaker 1: and watch him make that nine one one called it.
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Speaker 1: You hear all that blubbering and snodding and the tremulous wells. Yeah,
14:02
Speaker 1: but he became suddenly very literate when you have to
14:04
Speaker 1: say that I just got back. I heard that. I
14:07
Speaker 1: even read that home I've been gone. Yeah. He got
14:11
Speaker 1: the things that he needed to get out very clearly
14:13
Speaker 1: and very articularly, and so he knew it was almost
14:17
Speaker 1: like a script. He knew what he had to say.
14:19
Speaker 1: He obviously knows those calls are recorded, we all do,
14:22
Speaker 1: and so he knew what he had to say and
14:25
Speaker 1: he walked. You listen to that call, it's almost like
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Speaker 1: a walkthrough of Hey, I didn't do this, and so
14:31
Speaker 1: it's really interesting to hear that and to hear how
14:34
Speaker 1: he goes from this blubbering guy who's who you can
14:37
Speaker 1: hear the snock coming out, and he can't even comport himself,
14:40
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, he's very clear when
14:43
Speaker 1: he has to make the points that he wants to make.
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Speaker 1: Susany Williams joining me high profile South Carolina criminal defense
14:49
Speaker 1: as or any former prosecutor in Somerville. She is at
14:53
Speaker 1: s Williams dashlot dot net Susan Williams. I'm sure you've
14:58
Speaker 1: had a lot of clients, so I want to get
15:00
Speaker 1: up and start crying and blubbering and snotting. Please tell
15:04
Speaker 1: them don't do it, because it just makes it worse. Well,
15:08
Speaker 1: we're talking about someone who has just found his wife
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Speaker 1: and son did with blood spatter on his shirt. Well,
15:16
Speaker 1: do we know for sure if it is blood this
15:19
Speaker 1: news is reporting. I have no first hand knowledge and
15:22
Speaker 1: it has not been confirmed by any independent sources. But
15:26
Speaker 1: that we don't I don't know that we know for
15:28
Speaker 1: sure that it was blood. It was some bodily fluid
15:32
Speaker 1: perhaps on his shirt. What body fluid would that be?
15:38
Speaker 1: Whatever type could be snot it could be saliva it
15:41
Speaker 1: could be who knows, But we don't have any statements
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Speaker 1: from the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division. We don't have
15:48
Speaker 1: any statements from Alex murdoph lawyers. Alex Murdop has not, been,
15:52
Speaker 1: of course, charged with anything, so I just don't know
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Speaker 1: for sure exactly what has been found. I like the
16:01
Speaker 1: way you did that. By the way, Susan E. Williams.
16:03
Speaker 1: Note to Jackie, whenever I'm charged with double murder, hire
16:06
Speaker 1: Susan Williams, because see I asked her when your clients busted,
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Speaker 1: stop the snodding and the crying, and she immediately turned
16:14
Speaker 1: around to tell me that it is probably FIT News.
16:18
Speaker 1: They're the ones. They must be wrong. Okay, I like
16:22
Speaker 1: the way you did that. I give you all the credit,
16:24
Speaker 1: Susan Williams. But let's just get back to reality of
16:27
Speaker 1: what they're reporting. I'm going to read something. Listen to this.
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Speaker 1: Matt Harris joining me morning show host w L and K. Quote.
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Speaker 1: Multiple sources have told FIT that they and they keep
16:39
Speaker 1: saying this over and over. High velocity impacts spatter and
16:43
Speaker 1: Joe Scott put that in your head because I need
16:45
Speaker 1: for you to go over that for me. Multiple sources,
16:49
Speaker 1: multiple sources, have told this news outlet that the high
16:54
Speaker 1: velocity impact spatter has been independently analyzed and confirmed by
17:00
Speaker 1: multiple forensic experts, including by at least one out of
17:05
Speaker 1: state laboratory. Put that in your head to Joe Scott,
17:08
Speaker 1: because I'm just wondering, did they send it to Quantico?
17:11
Speaker 1: Because if you're going to send it out of state,
17:14
Speaker 1: why go from South Carolina to Alabama or Georgia or
17:17
Speaker 1: North Carolina. If you're gonna send us somewhere, make account
17:21
Speaker 1: man send it to the FEDS. I mean, that's what
17:24
Speaker 1: I'm just surmising. Because South Carolina, I mean, South Carolina
17:28
Speaker 1: has their own crime lab, don't they. Matt Harris, Yes,
17:31
Speaker 1: yes they do, probably more than one. I mean Georgia,
17:35
Speaker 1: we need we have a major crime lab in Atlanta.
17:40
Speaker 1: But I mean, I know South Carolina has got to
17:42
Speaker 1: have their own crime lab. Oh, they sure do. I
17:44
Speaker 1: mean they've they're backed up a lot because of COVID
17:47
Speaker 1: and what other things are going on, but they have
17:49
Speaker 1: one for sure, if not multiple. So why would they
17:52
Speaker 1: send it next door to North Carolina or to Tennessee
17:56
Speaker 1: or to Georgia. They wouldn't, right, right, I mean, I
17:59
Speaker 1: think the FEDS have been roaming around down on that
18:03
Speaker 1: area for a while. Now we know that, and I
18:07
Speaker 1: think that also to avoid any influenced by the Murdochs.
18:12
Speaker 1: Thus my podcast Impact of Influence. I love your podcast.
18:15
Speaker 1: Thank you. SLED wants to make sure, which is South
18:18
Speaker 1: Carolina Law Enforcement Division, to make sure there's no issues
18:23
Speaker 1: of influenced by the murdoch So they are going to
18:26
Speaker 1: make sure or ask for the FEDS help, I would assume,
18:29
Speaker 1: and not just have one of the counties or state
18:32
Speaker 1: work down there, because they don't want any impropriety acknowledge
18:37
Speaker 1: or thought about or rumored, So getting the FEDS involved
18:41
Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, that's
18:43
Speaker 1: what you name your podcast, And at first I didn't
18:46
Speaker 1: quite get why you had such a long name for
18:48
Speaker 1: your podcast, but now I do. The Murdoch family murders
18:52
Speaker 1: Impact of Influence, and I thought that meant just how
18:57
Speaker 1: far reaching the Murdock family influence was because their legal dynasty,
19:02
Speaker 1: they've been the prosecutors and they've had a civil law firm,
19:05
Speaker 1: which I think is an incredible conflict of interest because
19:07
Speaker 1: you're going to represent people that have been victims or
19:11
Speaker 1: purps in the cases that you're prosecuting. I mean, wow, anyway,
19:17
Speaker 1: that has lasted for decades and decades and decades. But
19:20
Speaker 1: in this case, the title of your podcast goes as well,
19:24
Speaker 1: impact of influence They are sending SLED. South Carolina Law
19:29
Speaker 1: Enforcement Division is sending this evidence out, I think to
19:35
Speaker 1: the fens, although that's not being reported where there is
19:39
Speaker 1: no partiality one way or the other, and nobody's got
19:43
Speaker 1: an ax to grind. So I think that's why they
19:47
Speaker 1: did that. And I want to also point out that
19:52
Speaker 1: FIT is reporting that this is just one piece of
19:57
Speaker 1: evidence of many of evidence that placed the Murnock at
20:02
Speaker 1: the scene at the time of the crime. Bobby Coon,
20:07
Speaker 1: What can they be talking about? NAV system on his car, GPS,
20:13
Speaker 1: satellite on his phone, triangulation, if he has watched Attraction,
20:19
Speaker 1: if he's got a fitness tracker. You know, there's a
20:21
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of different things to you. Here's
20:25
Speaker 1: the problem. You may do all that uh fitbit found car,
20:32
Speaker 1: all the NAV all the triangulation, but you gotta have
20:37
Speaker 1: the time of death. Yeah, narrowed down because you can
20:42
Speaker 1: prove he's there at eight pm. But what if you
20:45
Speaker 1: can't prove the deaths occurred at eight pm? What if
20:49
Speaker 1: the deaths occurred at two pm, that's a problem. Yeah,
20:53
Speaker 1: I thought it was weird. We've been saying from the
20:54
Speaker 1: beginning that it was odd to us that they picked
20:59
Speaker 1: a very short period of time for the possible death,
21:01
Speaker 1: because they released that that ALEC made the call at
21:05
Speaker 1: nine eleven and they said the time of death was
21:09
Speaker 1: between nine and nine thirty. Well, that's according to the
21:13
Speaker 1: autopsy report of Paul. That's a very short window. And
21:17
Speaker 1: you guys are better at the science things than me,
21:18
Speaker 1: but that seems like that's unusual to pin it down
21:22
Speaker 1: to a thirty minute span, Is that what they said?
21:24
Speaker 1: Matt Harris is jacoon Wright and I think he is.
21:26
Speaker 1: Did they stays between nine and nine thirty the time
21:29
Speaker 1: of Yes, according to the autopsy report of Paul, nine
21:32
Speaker 1: and nine thirty and alcocoul was that ten o seven. Okay,
21:37
Speaker 1: so they calls at ten o seven the death between
21:40
Speaker 1: nine and nine thirty. Matt Harris and Bobby Chone, that
21:43
Speaker 1: is certainly food for thought. How did they do it?
21:45
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, There may be a way that they're
21:47
Speaker 1: doing not scientifically, based on the body and the autopsy.
21:51
Speaker 1: It could be Maggie murdog. The wife made a phone
21:55
Speaker 1: call and had a conversation at eight forty five. Yeah,
21:58
Speaker 1: it's coming back to electronics scenes. Listen to anybody that's
22:01
Speaker 1: worth their salt, and forensics, particularly medical legal death investigation,
22:05
Speaker 1: you don't you don't ever, you don't ever narrow down
22:09
Speaker 1: beyond about a two to three hour window when you're
22:11
Speaker 1: talking about post mortem interval, that is the moment in
22:14
Speaker 1: time when an individual died until you actually get a
22:17
Speaker 1: chance to examine the body. We are not fine tuned
22:19
Speaker 1: enough for that. That gives me an indication here that
22:22
Speaker 1: they're getting information from some other source that's going to
22:26
Speaker 1: pin this day ostrinsic evidence to show time of death.
22:29
Speaker 1: And I remember they did find they did find Maggie's phone,
22:32
Speaker 1: uh the next day, tossed on the side of the
22:35
Speaker 1: road and some weeks yeah, yeah, and they got a
22:38
Speaker 1: really long driveway and I understand that the phone was
22:42
Speaker 1: not far from the mailbox or is it on down
22:44
Speaker 1: the road, Matt, they had they had to drive to it.
22:47
Speaker 1: In fact, Mike Hoist was talking with Alex brother and
22:52
Speaker 1: he they said that they got the information from Buster,
22:56
Speaker 1: the brother of Paul, and how to ping Maggie's phone,
23:04
Speaker 1: So they started walking around on the property they couldn't
23:06
Speaker 1: find it, and then John Marvin got into car with
23:11
Speaker 1: law enforcement and drove to where the phone was and
23:15
Speaker 1: they found it. Wow, that's really valuable information. Hey, guys,
23:19
Speaker 1: all of this that we're learning for those of you
23:22
Speaker 1: just joining us. According to fit News, high velocity impact
23:28
Speaker 1: spatter on Alex Murdock's shirt, the shirt he was wearing
23:32
Speaker 1: the nine his wife and son were murdered. High velocity
23:36
Speaker 1: impact blood spatter directly ties him to the double homicide.
23:41
Speaker 1: And with this backdrop about the blood spatter placing him
23:45
Speaker 1: at the bodies at the time they were shot dead.
23:49
Speaker 1: Take a listen to him on his nine one one call,
23:54
Speaker 1: and then we'll give doctor Sherry Schwartzer crack at it.
23:57
Speaker 1: Take a listen. Okay, what is her name? Maggie, Maggie
24:06
Speaker 1: and Paul Maggie and her name h yes, ma'am. Okay,
24:13
Speaker 1: and please hurry. We're getting somebody out there to you
24:16
Speaker 1: and me asking you these questions. Don't slow them down. Okay?
24:23
Speaker 1: Are you sure they're not breathing? Is he moving now?
24:30
Speaker 1: Your son? I know you said that she was shotting,
24:32
Speaker 1: but what about your son, nobody, They're not neither one.
24:47
Speaker 1: What is your telephone number? And does anything look out
24:54
Speaker 1: of place? Man? Not particularly really, no, ma'am. Okay, straight
25:09
Speaker 1: out to doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychole just specializing and
25:13
Speaker 1: capital mitigation at panther Mitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry Schwartz,
25:18
Speaker 1: what do you make of it? Well, I think, you know,
25:20
Speaker 1: going back earlier to what you and mister Chakom, we're
25:23
Speaker 1: talking about the fact that he sounds so upset in
25:26
Speaker 1: between the questions, but when he has to articulate the
25:29
Speaker 1: answers to the questions, he seems to do that just fine.
25:32
Speaker 1: He even is able to collect himself enough to sort
25:35
Speaker 1: of I'm imagining him looking around to see if anything's
25:38
Speaker 1: out of place before answering that question, and that to
25:42
Speaker 1: me seems very odd. I don't know what his psychopathology is.
25:46
Speaker 1: I've never met this person, but you know, it's this
25:51
Speaker 1: seems to be a group of people, the Murdoch family,
25:55
Speaker 1: that has a high degree of comfort being around death right.
26:00
Speaker 1: The housekeeper I believe was killed at one point or
26:03
Speaker 1: died in their presence, and they don't seem to have
26:07
Speaker 1: a right. They don't seem to have a lot of empathy,
26:11
Speaker 1: and yet he seems to do a remarkable job of
26:14
Speaker 1: sounding like he's got this empathy for his apparently deceased
26:19
Speaker 1: loved one. Let me go straight back out to special
26:22
Speaker 1: guests joining us from South Carolina. It's Susan E. Williams,
26:25
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer. Susan I want you to take a
26:27
Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty eight. It's more of than
26:30
Speaker 1: I women call. Listen to this. Ma't with you ever
26:36
Speaker 1: since you've got on the phone with me. I have
26:38
Speaker 1: multiple people coming out there to you. Okay, I don't
26:43
Speaker 1: want you to touch them at all. Okay, I don't.
26:45
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's already touched them at I don't.
26:47
Speaker 1: I don't want you to touch them, just in case
26:48
Speaker 1: they can get any kind of evidence. Okay, already touch
26:53
Speaker 1: the time to get to see if they were breathing. Okay, Well,
27:00
Speaker 1: I just don't want you to move anything, just in
27:01
Speaker 1: case they can get any kind of evidence. Oh man,
27:21
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call. I need to call some of my family. Okay, old, well,
27:27
Speaker 1: will do you a favor for me? Whenever you see
27:30
Speaker 1: the officer or the medics, because they're they're all coming
27:32
Speaker 1: to you. Absolutely okay, but we had them come and
27:36
Speaker 1: turn on the flashes on your vehicle so they can
27:38
Speaker 1: see you. Okay. I to Susan Williams, joining US, high
27:43
Speaker 1: profile lawyer out of South Carolina. He says, quote, I
27:48
Speaker 1: only touched him to see if they were breathing. So
27:53
Speaker 1: let's analyze that completely normal. He didn't reach down to
27:58
Speaker 1: do CPR, he didn't hold his wife, hug her trying
28:03
Speaker 1: to resuscitate her. And if he only touched them to
28:08
Speaker 1: see if they were breathing, and why would there be
28:12
Speaker 1: high velocity? But what's better on his shirt, which of
28:15
Speaker 1: course that would be a transfer mark. Anyway back which
28:18
Speaker 1: I'm in just for a second, nine one one called
28:21
Speaker 1: is redacted in many places, which not a lot of
28:25
Speaker 1: want I understand. Not a lot of states allow the
28:28
Speaker 1: nine one calls when they're released by FLOYA to be redacted,
28:31
Speaker 1: but that one is redacted. So some of those pauses
28:34
Speaker 1: sometimes are things that were taken out by SLID. Yeah,
28:37
Speaker 1: which I don't like at all, but I'm sure they
28:39
Speaker 1: have their reasons. What about it, Susan Williams, did you
28:41
Speaker 1: hear what he said? I only touched them to see
28:44
Speaker 1: if that had a pulse. Well, he may have done CPR,
28:47
Speaker 1: he may have hugged them, he may have done things
28:49
Speaker 1: that went on that none of us are aware of.
28:53
Speaker 1: But that's not what he said. He touched the body
28:55
Speaker 1: to check for a pulse. But I think that's normal
28:57
Speaker 1: for someone who comes up on a dead body. I mean,
29:00
Speaker 1: particularly if it's one of your loved ones. I believe
29:03
Speaker 1: I'd try to at least resuscitate them if there was
29:06
Speaker 1: any hope. But Susan Williams, what do you tell your
29:09
Speaker 1: clients to do when they're sitting in court and this
29:14
Speaker 1: nine one one call is being played for a jury?
29:16
Speaker 1: What are they supposed to be like oj Sipson, act
29:18
Speaker 1: like they're taking notes. Well, it depends on the circumstances,
29:21
Speaker 1: but I would I would I tell my clients that, uh,
29:25
Speaker 1: you know, to listen to what's going on, to pay
29:27
Speaker 1: attention to what's going on. If they need to write
29:29
Speaker 1: down notes, right, write down notes. But um, you know,
29:33
Speaker 1: we're not in a trial for this. No one has been.
29:36
Speaker 1: No one has I don't. I still don't understand how
29:39
Speaker 1: we've gone more than ten months and there is no arrest. Well,
29:42
Speaker 1: I mean, he's been arrested for so many other things.
29:44
Speaker 1: It's not like he's going anywhere. I mean, he's in
29:47
Speaker 1: jail right now, Man Harris, as he should be. Why
29:51
Speaker 1: is he in jail right now? I wanted to add
29:53
Speaker 1: one more thing is that not only has there been
29:55
Speaker 1: no arrest with than ten months, but right after the
29:58
Speaker 1: double murders, there was a public statement given by law
30:02
Speaker 1: enforcement that there's no reason for the public to fear
30:06
Speaker 1: that there's a threat. There's no threat of safety to
30:08
Speaker 1: the public. Yeah, because they know it's him. Yeah, that's
30:12
Speaker 1: not what I well, I mean, how do you interpret that. Hey, everybody,
30:15
Speaker 1: don't worry. We know who it is, somebody associated with
30:19
Speaker 1: with Alec. But when we were talking about Tom, we
30:22
Speaker 1: talk about that when he said he checked the bodies.
30:24
Speaker 1: It's probably important to note that, according to I think
30:27
Speaker 1: it's the Walstree Journal, Maggie was was either decapitated or
30:31
Speaker 1: pretty close decapitated. Why do you say that, Matt Harris.
30:34
Speaker 1: The Walree Journal reported that she was either nearly decapitated
30:38
Speaker 1: or decapitated because they and then and then fitz News
30:41
Speaker 1: Today said she was shot twice while on her stomach.
30:44
Speaker 1: And we know that the the gun that was used
30:49
Speaker 1: was was the ak Um and Shore range. That's and
30:53
Speaker 1: with the kind of bullets that were used, that's I
30:56
Speaker 1: don't see how you would think that Maggie was alive.
30:59
Speaker 1: According to So, I don't even know why he's checking her. Well,
31:04
Speaker 1: I guess you're just something you do. But how would
31:06
Speaker 1: that have happened, Joe Scott Morgan. If she's shot with
31:09
Speaker 1: a gun, why would she be nearly decapitated? Well, it's
31:12
Speaker 1: a it's a blast injury, Nancy, when you get if
31:16
Speaker 1: if in fact she has been sustained a gunshot wound
31:20
Speaker 1: to the head. And Matt had mentioned an AK platform
31:24
Speaker 1: And just so that folks know, that caliber is a
31:26
Speaker 1: seven point six to two by thirty nine. It's got
31:28
Speaker 1: a very high muzzle velocity. And if you're in close proximity,
31:34
Speaker 1: it's not just the projectile the bullet that's doing the damage.
31:37
Speaker 1: It's this blowing out gas. And if it's a contact
31:42
Speaker 1: wound heads. I have actually seen this occur many times
31:46
Speaker 1: over the course of my career. Heads literally come apart.
31:49
Speaker 1: They'll actually fracture, the skulls will fracture along with suiture lines,
31:53
Speaker 1: and so that can explain this kind of I hate
31:56
Speaker 1: to use the term blowback, but this fond mist that
31:59
Speaker 1: comes on the individual relative to this high velocity blood spatter.
32:04
Speaker 1: One more thing, Nancy, that really needs to be explored here,
32:08
Speaker 1: I think, is that you have two individuals that are
32:11
Speaker 1: deceased now, so whoever is doing the examination on the
32:15
Speaker 1: shirts are on the clothing rather, let me phrase it
32:18
Speaker 1: that way, they're having to separate out both of these
32:22
Speaker 1: high velocity patterns. Perhaps they might you might have two
32:26
Speaker 1: blood sources here, so they have to go in and
32:29
Speaker 1: specifically identify you're talking about mom and you're talking about son,
32:32
Speaker 1: to see if both of their blood is in this
32:34
Speaker 1: fine message. Yeah, it's overlying or overlaid, and it can commingle,
32:40
Speaker 1: what we call commingle, and so that's kind of very
32:42
Speaker 1: difficult to kind of separate out and it could take
32:45
Speaker 1: some time to do this. Well, I'm glad you're saying that,
32:48
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, because that answers Susan Williams's question as to
32:53
Speaker 1: why ten months have passed and if the blood spatter
32:56
Speaker 1: evidence the high velocity impact spatter, it's fit News says
33:01
Speaker 1: it's not the only thing placing Murdoch there at the
33:03
Speaker 1: scene of the double murders. It's analysis and the time
33:07
Speaker 1: it takes to send things too. For instance, Quantico could
33:11
Speaker 1: explain the ten months laps. What about that, Joe Scott, Wait,
33:16
Speaker 1: hold on, I hear Bobby's coo breaking in. Bobby, could that?
33:19
Speaker 1: Could it take that many months to perform such a
33:22
Speaker 1: delicate test? Yeah, And I've spoke to doctor Joe about
33:25
Speaker 1: this before. I mean these these tests take time, um,
33:28
Speaker 1: and you know and and oftentimes um, the results would
33:32
Speaker 1: take a while to analyze and get back. In my
33:35
Speaker 1: in my reading of the Fit News and other sources,
33:37
Speaker 1: I think this. I think it only comes from one source.
33:39
Speaker 1: I think it's the Sun's um. And Fitness is very
33:43
Speaker 1: careful not to say blood spatter, but they say high
33:46
Speaker 1: lossity impacts spatter, which this could be three bows final
33:49
Speaker 1: fluid from the skull of the Sun. Because apparently from
33:53
Speaker 1: other reporting, a wife we shot while on the ground,
33:55
Speaker 1: it's released the head shot. Um, she's shot in the
33:58
Speaker 1: back of cell, then shot in the back of ahead.
34:00
Speaker 1: The sun is hit with a shotgun to the chest
34:02
Speaker 1: and then the head um. The only thing that benefits
34:06
Speaker 1: alice murcers in this scenario. I believe he wasn't a shooter,
34:10
Speaker 1: but he probably walked them into the kill zone. He
34:12
Speaker 1: was probably instructed to walk them into the kill zone,
34:15
Speaker 1: and so they he was walking with his wife and
34:17
Speaker 1: son just before, and he knew that they were about
34:20
Speaker 1: to be shot. That's why he was so close to them.
34:23
Speaker 1: Because these are both a long barrel weapons. It's very
34:26
Speaker 1: hard to shoot somebody within thirty six inches with a
34:30
Speaker 1: long barrel weapon with them not knowing you're about to
34:33
Speaker 1: shoot them, or it's just these are these weapons are
34:36
Speaker 1: meant to be fired from a much greater distance than
34:38
Speaker 1: thirty six inches. But it's also conceivable that he was
34:42
Speaker 1: instructed where to walk them so the people lying in
34:45
Speaker 1: wait with these long barrel weapons were able to take
34:48
Speaker 1: those shots and to clear up that it was ahead
34:52
Speaker 1: a R fifteen. Okay, I'm I'm glad that, Matt. I'm
34:55
Speaker 1: glad you brought that up. Because the AAR fifteen is
34:57
Speaker 1: going to be a five point five six millimeter or
35:00
Speaker 1: point two to three caliber. It's still a very high
35:04
Speaker 1: velocity round. It's the same platform that our military and
35:07
Speaker 1: our tactical police officers use as well. But this to
35:11
Speaker 1: Bobby's point, Nancy, here you're talking about two shoulder fired
35:14
Speaker 1: long weapons, a shotgun, and essentially a military style weapon
35:20
Speaker 1: that are being used. This has to be fired from
35:22
Speaker 1: the shoulder. Traditionally, it can be fired from the hip
35:24
Speaker 1: if you watch Arnold Schwarzenegger movies. But firing from the
35:27
Speaker 1: shoulder that's the standard position of these things. And so
35:31
Speaker 1: you've got great barrel linked here more so with the
35:34
Speaker 1: shotgun depended upon the platform. If it's a like a
35:38
Speaker 1: riot shotgun, then it would have a shorter barrel on it.
35:41
Speaker 1: But if you're talking like a twelve gage hunting shotgun,
35:44
Speaker 1: for instance, you've got and shooting birds with, it's going
35:46
Speaker 1: to have a longer barrel. But it's it's it's This
35:49
Speaker 1: has always bothered me about this case, Nancy, the fact
35:52
Speaker 1: that you've got two shoulder fired long weapons involved in
35:57
Speaker 1: this double homicide. Why in the world would a single
36:00
Speaker 1: perpetrator come out to the scene armed with two long weapons.
36:04
Speaker 1: It's just it doesn't make any sense to me. Time
36:21
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Isn't it true, Matt Harris joining
36:28
Speaker 1: us from wl n K that at least one of
36:32
Speaker 1: the murder weapons was owned by the Alex Murdoch family. Well,
36:36
Speaker 1: we know that the Murdoch did own an AR fifteen
36:40
Speaker 1: that uses the m with that was found by the
36:41
Speaker 1: three hundred blackout according the ball Street Journal, but that
36:44
Speaker 1: was not recovered or turned over for inspection, is what
36:47
Speaker 1: we're hearing. So that now, so that leaves us to
36:50
Speaker 1: believe if you take every report and put altogether, that
36:53
Speaker 1: maybe the shotgun was found, but that is still again
36:58
Speaker 1: one of those rumors that's out there, and the R
37:00
Speaker 1: fifteen according to the journal, that's not. Then the Murdoch
37:03
Speaker 1: owned one was not collected. We're not sure why that was. Guys,
37:08
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friend DANAE. Bucci and w
37:11
Speaker 1: j C L twenty two are kept one. Margaret and
37:15
Speaker 1: Paul Murdall were identified by the Colleton County Coroner's Office
37:19
Speaker 1: so earlier this afternoon. It was a long day for
37:22
Speaker 1: investigators at this property in Islington, a rural area north
37:26
Speaker 1: of Barneville in Colleton County. The bodies of Margaret and
37:31
Speaker 1: Paul Murdall were found at ten pm Monday night. The
37:35
Speaker 1: Coleton County Coroner's Office tells us preliminary results show both
37:39
Speaker 1: died from gunshot looms. Margaret Murdoll was fifty two and
37:42
Speaker 1: was the mother of Paul Murdoch, who was twenty two.
37:45
Speaker 1: Their bodies were discovered at the family hunting lodge off
37:48
Speaker 1: Mussel Road. According to county records, Maggie owned the property.
37:52
Speaker 1: The State Law Enforcement Division has joined the investigation into
37:55
Speaker 1: their death. The Colton County Sheriff's Office, as well as
37:58
Speaker 1: LEDs say they don't have any lead, but they don't
38:00
Speaker 1: believe that this incident should be a worry for the public.
38:04
Speaker 1: You know, again, the time of the deaths has been
38:09
Speaker 1: placed between nine and nine thirty that evening. Now back
38:13
Speaker 1: to you, Matt joining us. Mattah He Murdog states that
38:21
Speaker 1: he was visiting his father in the hospital at that time,
38:25
Speaker 1: and I'm very curious about whether video surveillance was seized
38:32
Speaker 1: from the hospital, of course, pursuing it to want showing
38:35
Speaker 1: him at what time he left, and then performing the
38:40
Speaker 1: usual experiments to see how long it would take to
38:43
Speaker 1: get from the hospital to the hunting lodge where they
38:46
Speaker 1: were murdered. Well, I have since learned that he was
38:52
Speaker 1: at the hospital at one point with his dad, who
38:55
Speaker 1: died a few days later, but he was actually his mom,
39:00
Speaker 1: who suffers from Alzheimer's and dementia, at her house at
39:05
Speaker 1: from nine to nine in that range nine thirty, watching
39:09
Speaker 1: a game show or something, and she has a and
39:13
Speaker 1: the word is that she has a your caretaker that
39:18
Speaker 1: was there at that time to do the vouching. I
39:21
Speaker 1: don't know it's true, but it's a very short drive
39:24
Speaker 1: from her mom's house. I've driven it from the mom's
39:27
Speaker 1: his mom's house to the hunting area. I mean twenty minutes,
39:33
Speaker 1: maybe fifteen. So who was saying he was with mom
39:35
Speaker 1: between nine and nine thirty because law enforcements very clear
39:40
Speaker 1: that that's the window. I'm the martyrs. Yeah, well, I
39:43
Speaker 1: mean that's what if they're using that as alibi and
39:45
Speaker 1: they haven't said a specific time, but that it's alibi,
39:47
Speaker 1: I assume it lines up with the nine to nine
39:49
Speaker 1: thirty or some much up an alibi. So, um, if
39:53
Speaker 1: it makes sense that he if he left his mom's
39:55
Speaker 1: at nine thirty, he'd be well, bba there before ten o'clock.
39:59
Speaker 1: But I'm just putting two and two together that if
40:02
Speaker 1: it's if it's his alibi and they think she's they're
40:05
Speaker 1: killed in between nine and thirty, he must say he
40:07
Speaker 1: was there between nine and nine thirty. Straight back to
40:09
Speaker 1: Bobby's count. How do you make sense of what you're
40:11
Speaker 1: hearing right now? From Matt Harris, well, I think you know,
40:14
Speaker 1: as doctor Joe even alluded to Rower, I don't think
40:17
Speaker 1: these time frames can be that exact. I think these
40:19
Speaker 1: are approximations. I think both at the time of death
40:22
Speaker 1: and these times of travel and the times he left,
40:25
Speaker 1: I think these are very approximations. I mean, if you
40:27
Speaker 1: ask me of my day yesterday, I could give you
40:30
Speaker 1: approximate times and when I did certain things, but those
40:32
Speaker 1: aren't going to be to the minute. Those are going
40:34
Speaker 1: to be also minus five ten minutes depending on what
40:37
Speaker 1: I was doing, not really. If you use yourself funding
40:39
Speaker 1: your NAV data off of your car, it will be
40:42
Speaker 1: down to the minute. If that's used, sir Millis video,
40:45
Speaker 1: it is time to stamped the same thing that it's
40:46
Speaker 1: stamped correctly, right, Which is why, which is why his
40:50
Speaker 1: lawyers are snowing by his own statements and saying it
40:52
Speaker 1: an airtight alibi when the police are saying, no, he's
40:55
Speaker 1: a suspect in this case, he's a person of interest
40:58
Speaker 1: in this double homicide because statements of when he did
41:01
Speaker 1: certain things may not match up with the electronics that
41:05
Speaker 1: they now have. I mean, the lawyer is saying this,
41:09
Speaker 1: Jim Griffin who is Alex Murdock's lawyer is saying, quote,
41:13
Speaker 1: I assure you we have Alex's whereabouts for completely that time.
41:18
Speaker 1: That night, he's sitting on the bedside of his mother
41:21
Speaker 1: at her house when the coroner says the murders happened
41:24
Speaker 1: watching a game show on TV. How many times have
41:28
Speaker 1: people relied on what's on TV at the time a
41:32
Speaker 1: murder or a crime occurred. That doesn't always pan out
41:36
Speaker 1: the way you think it's going to pan out. Another
41:40
Speaker 1: thing to you, Matt. We also understand that this is
41:43
Speaker 1: now one of the largest and most complex criminal corruption
41:47
Speaker 1: investigations ever in Palmetto State history. This has gone now
41:53
Speaker 1: into corruption. How well I mean Alex has been I
41:57
Speaker 1: think there's seventy one charges against him, a little over
42:00
Speaker 1: eight million dollars that he's allegedtro taken from clients, but
42:04
Speaker 1: the number is estimated by most to be more like
42:08
Speaker 1: twelve or fifteen or something. There's a judge that has
42:12
Speaker 1: come under fire because she signed off on the settlement
42:19
Speaker 1: with the sadder Field kids, but it was worded oddly.
42:22
Speaker 1: It seemed to be hidden within the system. So note
42:26
Speaker 1: so the Beach family goodbye and facilitated all of the embezzlement. Oh,
42:32
Speaker 1: there's got to be there. I think that there has
42:34
Speaker 1: to be plenty of people involved, you would think. I
42:37
Speaker 1: don't think over ten years you can take like fifteen
42:40
Speaker 1: million dollars and do it alone. For all of you
42:42
Speaker 1: just joining us. According to fit news high velocity impact spatter,
42:50
Speaker 1: we think blood directly tying Alex Murrague to the double
42:56
Speaker 1: murders of his wife and son. As of now, there
43:01
Speaker 1: are no murder charges leveled against anyone in the double
43:06
Speaker 1: murders of Maggie and Paul Murdog. No one has been
43:09
Speaker 1: named a suspect at this time. We wait as just
43:14
Speaker 1: as sunfalls. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,