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After Being Threatened by a Criminal, She Refused to Stay Vulnerable · Making Shooters Better

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he heard a glass break in his house.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he had just put his gun in his safe to go get in the shower.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: So he goes back to the gun safe, gets the gun out, you know, totally naked, right?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Walking through his house.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: And he realizes as he's walking down the hallway, why am I walking down the hallway?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let me go back to where I was, where I have kind of this nice view of anybody who walks into the kitchen or into the hallway.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: So he retreats any weights.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the situation unfolded in a way where he did have to shoot the intruder.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: The intruder was armed.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the police were actually already there outside of his home because they had been at the neighbor's house where this altercation began.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that gentleman was running from the police, shot through my friend's window to get into his home, and then was inside his home for seven minutes before my friend had to use his firearm in self-defense.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, my name's Terry Vaughan and welcome to Making Shooters Better, brought to you by Laser Ammo.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Talent is rarely born.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: More often it is built.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's built through repetition, through brutal honesty with yourself, through frustration, through the stubborn refusal to quit long after quitting would feel quite reasonable.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And nowhere is that more obvious than I think than in shooting.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest, Dakota Adelphia, has carved out a respected name in one of the most competitive and opinionated industries on earth.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not because things came easily, but because she refused to stay comfortable.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Dakota is not only a firearms instructor, competitive shooter, conceal carrier, co-host of Gun Owners Radio, consultant for Filster Holsters, but she's also a chapter facilitator for a girl and a gun in San Diego.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Dakota, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: That was such a good introduction.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I gotta bring you around with me.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Introduce me places.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can be a little heavy to lug around, but uh try and show up with the accent.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I need to sort of uh share that we met at the NRA show.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it this is one of the rare occasions where I've actually gotten to see you shoot and you shot really well.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the moment I saw you shoot, I'm like, I have to have you as a guest on the podcast.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So with the whole shooting thing in terms of how well you did that day, was that just a normal day for you, or were you just red hot and it just happened to be a lucky streak?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I would say that that was a performance that was at my level.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know, I think every day that you train, every day that you pick up a gun, you are showing up with whatever training you've had in the past.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't particularly seem to be one of those shooters that like shows up and and one day is way better and the next day is way worse.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I tend to have a pretty consistent uh run at things.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think the exception is like gun problems.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes at a at a competition, there's a stage that doesn't go well because I have a malfunction or something like that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: But in general, I think I kind of show up as the same, as the same shooter, um, hopefully getting incrementally better.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but yeah, I I think that was a pretty typical performance.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really fun to get to use the smokeless range.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: I had never done that before.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it was my first NRAM.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I was uh going around to all the booths trying to do all the little shooting challenges and seeing all the different products out there.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was a lot of fun and we had a great conversation.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks so much for having me on the show.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you shot easily that day in the top one or two percent of everyone that stopped by to shoot the smokeless range.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you really were in a league of your own.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: There were very few that came by that day, and we had everybody from military and law enforcement shoot as well as you did.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that that is a consistent theme for you, I think just speaks volumes about the amount of work you've put in before that day, of course, to shoot as well as you did.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because consistency, as far as I'm concerned, when it comes to shooting, is is everything.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think so much of the shooting sports and shooting industry in general is getting a program that works well for you.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And what works for me as far as practice and training may not be the same thing that works for somebody else.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: But once you find something that is working for you, you have to do it consistently.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think practice, consistent practice, consistent competition, you know, making sure that you're actually testing the skills that you're working on in your own private practice.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's really uh an amazing way to excel in shooting.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I see folks who have never competed and they start and you instantly see their improvement in the first few matches, they're shooting faster and better than they ever have.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm a I'm a big proponent of testing your skills in something that gives you a little bit of pressure, whether that's, you know, competing at a at a match, USPSA or something like that, or if it's going and taking classes and having the pressure of, you know, your peers watching you perform on the line.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I ask every guest say uh the same question at the very beginning.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: How old were you when you first started to shoot?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I don't actually have a memory of this, but after I became a shooter, somebody, uh one of my childhood friends' dads reminded me that he had taken me shooting when I was a kid.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I don't have any recollection of that at all.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was probably eight or nine.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we used to go out to like this farm pretty often, go hang out, you know, play with the animals, and there were a bunch of kids out there.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I, you know, I guess one of the times we went to the farm, there were some some long guns 22 uh rifles.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was my first shooting experience.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but obviously it didn't leave much of an impression on me at the time.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I was probably around, yeah, like nothing.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when I was literally like, don't even remember it happening.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then when I was 15, we went on kind of like a family adventure trip uh across the southern tier of the United States.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so on that trip, we met some really cool people.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the the guys in the south that we met was like, hey, I've got guns and a big backyard.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you guys want to shoot?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so um that was that was kind of a fun experience.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was the the first time I really remember thinking like guns might be a fun thing.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had grown up just outside of Chicago, and a lot of the culture there surrounding guns is that guns are for bad guys.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Bad guys use guns to shoot and kill people.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there's very little in the way of recreational shooting culture at all.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I it wasn't even something that I knew existed.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: I did not know that there were competitive shooting sports.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't on the radar at all.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: So when we were in the South and we had that experience, I was like, oh, maybe guns could be a fun thing.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I still had a lot of built-up kind of preconceived notions from my, you know, upbringing.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I uh later on when I was 15, still we moved to the state of Colorado, and the culture there was so different from where I grew up.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was like all these kids that lived up in the mountains and went hunting every season and had rifle racks in their pickup trucks.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, you just like your eyes are like this wide.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're walking around school and you're like, what the heck?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: People are wearing camo and you know, they're gonna go hunting right after school.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: They got their orange shirts on already, you know.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so that started to kind of shift my internal attitudes about shooting, but I still didn't really have a lot of experience.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: I went to the the range maybe once or twice throughout high school.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and that was it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: So then I moved to college, went to uh San Diego State.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was in San Diego, my boyfriend, who's now my husband, he had been a Boy Scout and he had some shooting experience.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so he was like, you know, I think I might get a gun when I turn 21.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: And at first I was like, I don't really think I want a gun in our house.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't, I don't know much about guns, they feel kind of scary to me.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and he was like, no, I think we should have one like for for home defense and personal protection.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, yeah, that makes sense.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like if somebody comes in with a gun, it would be nice to also have a gun in the house.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: So he bought a Glock 17.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: It was our first gun.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then I turned 21 a few months later.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was like, you know, it's kind of silly that we have this gun in the house and I still don't feel comfortable with it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: I still don't really know how to use it.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had him take me to the range.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: And any time that it malfunctioned, I was like scared of it.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'd like to put it down.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you gotta fix it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what happened.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or like he would load the gun for me and just hand it to me.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I never really had like any knowledge of how to do it from start to finish and fix problems that could arise.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so around that time, I was like, you know, this is actually dangerous for me to have this gun at home and not be able to use it if something went a little wrong or the round didn't go off or whatever.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I Googled women's shooting classes in San Diego and I found a burl and a gun.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there was a chapter here that was very active, and I went to uh an intro to handgun class and I was 21, almost 22 at that time.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So from being somewhat apprehensive, maybe even, dare I say, slightly anti-gun, to contextualizing that, okay, firearm is a way to level the playing field between me and a potential threat if something were to come into the house.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have you heard the story from Robin Sandable on her journey?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's near parallel, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's she was anti-gun, didn't want anyone in the house.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: It took her husband asking her what would happen if somebody broke in the house, I go down, I can't defend you, now what?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: It took that sort of contextualization for her to go, well, darn it, I don't know.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then, okay, now you start exploring, you know, owning something, owning this tool, mastering it, becoming familiar with it, how it works, all the mechanics.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the catalyst for that growth or that implementation and adoption.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's so funny to hear that your journey was just about like the same.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think for for me, the the main difference wasn't necessarily that I was anti-gun.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like Robin tells her story.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: She was fully anti-gun.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I was just like anti-a lack of education.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I don't want a thing in the house that I don't know how to use.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it was more that I I was always open to the concept of us getting a gun, but I was like, if it's here, I should know how to use it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And like, kind of at the time, I was like, I don't have time.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in school, I work, you know, I don't have time to pick up a new hobby.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Turns out, you know, now I'm sure he regrets getting the first gun because my whole life is about guns and shooting.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I was like, you started this whole thing.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, one of one of the pieces of that journey was me kind of realizing like I'm not being a responsible gun owner by having this in the home and not knowing how to use it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that it's a wonderful journey.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's just it, it just fascinates me how people get there.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, having interviewed Robin and heard her story, I'm like listening to this going, it's the parallels are are incredible.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you you started to do the shooting, and trust me, your husband uh has probably never regretted getting you started on that journey.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's brilliant.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: How many guns now?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you have like a selection of guns and you have your favorites, or are you sort of locked in on uh on Glocks?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, so I am a Glock girl through and through.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was shooting a Smith and Wesson Performance Center 2.0 for a couple of years uh competitively and really kind of always had a little bit of a difficult relationship with it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I just never felt like it was the right gun for me to be competing with.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um I went back to a Glock 17, and that's what I've been competing with, and I'm very happy with it.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I don't have any uh any issues with that one.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I do carry um, you know, a smaller gun.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: That the Glock 17 is just so large for my frame.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I carried a Glock 19 for a couple of years, but even that was difficult.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I had to kind of dress around the gun, I had to make wardrobe concessions, you know, kind of give up a little bit of my style, uh, which I didn't want to do.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I eventually went towards a smaller, you know, more compact gun.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So now I carry a SIG P365 XL as my carry gun.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I do uh USPSA competitions occasionally from concealment with my carry gun just to kind of keep comfortable with it.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I I like the idea of training with what you're gonna fight with if you need to.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I also want to be competitive, you know, and so in the world of, you know, Glock 17, full-size gun, higher capacity for ammunition, you know, I I I still compete with that the majority of the time.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: But those are kind of my my main handguns.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: But that's hugely important.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I think a distinction that a lot of people forget that we go to the range and when we do these competitions or even when we just want to shoot recreationally, there's a tendency to want to bring the gun with all the bells and whistles, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the optics on it, you've got the tr the competition triggers, yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Fled magwells, and they're great, great fun to shoot, but you're not carrying that.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and so the gun that you are gonna have on you when, you know, the proverbial crap hits the fan is the gun you're gonna have on you when the crap hits the fan.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not practiced, if you haven't put yourself through some pressure drills or some competition shoots with that particular firearm, I think it's a recipe for disaster.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Especially when we're thinking about the transition between optics and irons.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: My carry gun has iron sights.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I may eventually put a dot on it, but I'm very, very cheap.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like eventually maybe a dot'll fall in my lap and I'll put it on there.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: But um I love my Trigicon SRO on my Glock 17.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's got this huge window, super easy to see.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: My, you know, carry gun has iron sights.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I occasionally I'm like, oh yeah, this is what it's like to shoot irons, you know, when you're shooting a dot so often, you you do kind of forget a little bit of of how much more effort it takes to align your sights.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it it's not a huge difference, but it is different.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not practicing, it's definitely not a good, uh, not a good plan.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I think once a month minimum, I take my carry gun to the range either for either to shoot a competition with it or to have a a dedicated practice session where I don't even bring my competition gun.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just, you know, working from concealment and recoil management and things like that.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was definitely a a I was fixed to iron sights.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I refused.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt like I don't know.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um how do I I felt like maybe a little bit it was cheating because it was so much easier, generally speaking.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: However, as I got to the age I'm at now, probably about five or six years ago actually, I realized I was having a harder and harder time focusing on the front sidepost.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like, what is happening to me?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm falling apart.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then somebody said, try this, and of course, you know, I picked up the red dot, and I'm like, grumpy old man, and punched that thing out, went, oh, well, that was nice.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it just took some of the work out of it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So even though it can be somewhat cumbersome to have a red dot on a concealed gun, you sort of find workarounds because I think they're they're so useful in terms of rapid sight acquisition, especially under pressure.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And in a self-defense situation, of course, that first shot accuracy and first shot speed is crucial.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I I got myself, you know, I gave myself a s a stern talking to and talk myself into getting a red dot for my concealed, but I do push myself when I can to go back to iron sights, repractice the fundamentals of that and the site alignments, all those things, just so that I don't forget how to do it under pressure, you know, even with competition or whatever else or self-defense.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So was there a specific skill in shooting that has frustrated you as you've sort of learned and grown?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: When I first kind of started the competitive shooting journey that I've been on the last five-ish years, I started at a local steel challenge style match, and it is very accuracy heavy.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: The the match itself, it's been around, it's it's uh at a local range here called Rainbow Range.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's been around for decades, and it's a bunch of old guys that have been running it literally since the 70s.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like the original competition in the area, and it's so heavily penalizing, you know, misses.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a five-second penalty per miss.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And all of the strings are like these six-shot steel strings.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I learned accuracy first, accuracy only.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I was able to, you know, get decent at that competitive style, but it it definitely dampened my journey as far as learning to shoot fast.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: It took a lot of time and effort to get away from over-confirming my sights and just seeing what I need to see.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it really took like USPSA and watching other people shoot those stages way faster than I had ever pressed the trigger on a gun and been like, oh, maybe I need to start working on pressing my trigger a little bit faster.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: So once I kind of got out of the accuracy only mentality, the the speed took a little while.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was definitely a big shift.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for me, a big part of it was the concern that it wasn't safe to shoot faster than I could see.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I see this a lot with women that that women really want to be very, very safe and deliberate in how they shoot.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you have to learn, you know, at least for me, the the thing that got me there was an instructor saying, we're not even gonna be in front of a target.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go over to this huge dirt berm and you're just gonna unload your mag as fast as you can at like nothing.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Don't even see anything.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Just like point your gun at the hill and press the trigger until your gun's empty.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I did it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that was so fun.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to do that again.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that kind of helped me get out of my head.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then I learned, like, oh, I actually can see a lot at speed.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: I just need needed to teach my brain what to look for, and I needed to have a little bit of a better idea of what that process was like.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I I definitely went from this very slow, methodical accuracy accuracy, you know, precision shooter to somebody who could kind of play in both worlds, but it it took a lot of time and effort.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: See, I can appreciate both sides of that coin because I I do believe there's there's absolute um gold to be found in show in shooting slowly and deliberately.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Get the accuracy down, find the mechanics of that, find your site picture and your positioning and your grip and all those things that work for you and do it slowly.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: That sort of crawl, walk, run mentality is great.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: But then on the other side of that coin, looking at it from a self-defense standpoint, we're inevitably going to be rushed.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna be under a lot of pressure, life-threatening pressure.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're probably going to be in some sort of unorthodox position or in an unorthodox environment and might not have time to do that well-measured shot.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, you know, I can already hear the critics and YouTube blowing up with you should always know where that shot's going.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: But there's there's sort of a balance, I think.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Once you've mastered that entry-level accuracy and you're and you are 99% sure on every shot, you know exactly where it's going, to start taking those training wheels off, so to speak, and to just loosen up and figure out, well, where do the wheels really come off?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because if your grip is good, sight alignment is good, you should theoretically be, even on a rushed shot, within 90-95% of where you would be if you were really accurate.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: But now that time factor obviously comes into play, especially from self-defense.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I have just I've heard the same thing many times from women shooters and seen it, where they want the the very measured bullseye shots, right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, but if you lost 20% of that control and you are now at a six-inch group instead of a one-inch, he's still having a bad day.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're you get to live, you know, to fight another day.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it it's so funny because guys happens all the time.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm standing in the lane, the indoor range, and guys are just sending it, magazine after magazine.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Looks like a shotgun blast range on the target.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you should learn some bloody accuracy.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the next lane, these tight little groups, I'm like, probably a female shooter or a competitive shooter of some sort, doing the measured shots, and it's like, okay, how do you break the cycle of being too controlled for your own good in a self-defense situation?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what that guy showed you with on that just shoot into the dirt, let it go.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's probably brilliant.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Take away your preconceived notion of how close your shots have to be on the paper.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what was really holding me back.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that I couldn't be faster, but it's that I would get a flyer.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, at that time, a flyer was something outside of my One inch group where everything's touching, you know, I'd get a flyer an inch away from the group and I'd be like, oh man, that's why I can't go fast.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's why, that's why my slower trigger press is the right trigger press.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so it, it definitely took some unlearning.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think obviously it's important to be able to meld those two together and to have, you know, in competitive shooting, we call it throttle control.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: There are some targets that require a more careful and precise shot.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: And there's some targets that require or or would allow for much quicker, you know, presentation than shots.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so understanding the difference and being able to modulate in a stage, I think is is one of the things that sets apart, you know, good shooters from folks who can really be successful competitively.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: That throttle control, if you if you hear somebody shooting the same pace on all their targets, they're wasting time, you know?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: What a great point.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love throttle control.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: It is because you are modulating.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also getting into a competition environment where you're having to make those quick reads.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this is a small target, got to slow down.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: But the next one's massive.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Next one I can, you know, full send, you know, whether it's two shots or three shots, whatever it may be.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think being able to quickly snap decide, or I know most of the time in competitions we walk the course, but this is one of those environments where you you have an opportunity to kind of test yourself and go, how quickly am I reading this particular target and making my decision on how to shoot?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then how quickly can I adjust to the next target if it's of a different size or a different distance?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I teach a lot of open enrollment concealed carry classes.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so I see this kind of play out on the range during qualifications all the time, where I'll have multiple students, similar experience levels, you know, maybe pretty, pretty new to shooting, first time getting their carry permit.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll have folks, and it's not always, you know, among gender lines, you know, but a lot of times it is.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have the the men in the class be a little bit more willing to take a shot without seeing their sights.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they hear the course of fire and they send it and you know, shots are everywhere.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that I think really helps them bring it back to real life is that whenever we go on the range, I say, you know, I know this is just like an indoor range and this is just gonna feel like, you know, a regular course of fire.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: But while we're shooting, I want you to think about being in the Walmart parking lot.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to think about being in an in a situation where you've got loved ones nearby.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Are you going to want to take careful measured shots and be accurate?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So let's practice that skill with a little bit of that mental pressure that you can put on yourself.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that really tends to help students kind of shift their perspective from trying to pass a qualification to like, okay, I should be practicing the skill that I would be using out on the street.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think even, you know, force on force, if if folks have good force on force instruction near them, that is a fantastic way to get a little bit of an idea of how would you react in real life because you put that helmet on and you know, you're you know it's fake.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: You paid for the class, you showed up, but your heart starts going and you're thinking, oh man, I hope I don't embarrass myself in front of everybody.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I I hope I make the right decision.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get to learn from the other students in class and the mistakes they make.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, hopefully you have an instructor that does like a good debrief with everybody about all of the different scenarios.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think force on force is a great way to kind of test yourself and learn what you need to work on.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you go to a force on force class and you come home with notes.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, okay, now I know, you know, this is this is the thing I should probably have a little more control over.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, maybe it's as simple as like, yeah, my drawda first shot was a spray and prey.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then I realized, wait, I have sites, I got to use them, you know, and just knowing that about yourself is useful for your own practice.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: If nothing else, it helps illuminate that you shouldn't be trying to clear your own house unless you absolutely have to.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because even in an environment that you're very familiar with, the difficulties and challenges of actually clearing your own home, either as an individual or even as a pair, it's bloody difficult.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's such unnecessary risk in most situations.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: There are small, you know, small sections of the population where maybe help is so far away, or, you know, kids are down the hallway, you got to get to the kids' room, things like that, of course.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but have a plan for that, that you've practiced, that you know exactly what you're gonna do in that situation so that you can be prepared to make the best possible decisions.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: I hear so many people who know better say, yeah, but when it came down to it and I heard a bump in the night, I grabbed my gun and I went out to see what it was.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, okay, but you know that that's not what you should do.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: You had a different plan.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: And in the moment, you changed your your you know, decision making because you thought, oh, it would be embarrassing to call 911 and have it be nothing.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: But isn't embarrassment better than dead?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So if we put this into perspective, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: I would much, much rather the cops laugh at me and say, no, it was nothing, you know, the storm door blew open or whatever.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: I would much rather that than than be in the hospital or in a grave.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a little side tangent, but right.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it that's not that's one of those important elements, isn't it?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I'm as guilty of this as the next person.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: If something goes bump in the night, I know damn well I don't have my kids are left home.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have pets.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: So what am I doing?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've got the alarm on, we're all good.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just wait.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: You come to me.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's and that that is how it's gonna work best at ambush.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: What happened a few weeks ago when we heard noise outside?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: What happened?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: I went to investigate.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm talking to you.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where, okay, so I have I mean I have to have this conversation with myself.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have this conversation with others.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's this sense that this is what I would advocate for.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, hold up, unless there are children that you need to go and protect.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you can hold up in that location and call for the people who are supposed to, you know, keep us safe and that's law enforcement, have them do that.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is every red-blooded American that can has a firearm is gonna feel like, okay, I'm gonna check this out.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I this is my castle.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to protect it.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think the caveat to all that is get as much training as possible in how many ways it can go wrong so that at the very least you move deliberately, cautiously, and I hate to say it, fairly slowly through your own home to the to investigate the bump in the night, so that you have enough experience to know how quickly it can go sideways, and that you are not going to go through your house like John Wick at the speed of light, right?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Dropping bad guys every around every corner.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to know enough about yourself, your own skills, your own home.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to have practiced where are those dead spots, where are those secondary ambush locations where you could hold up, you know, perhaps in shadow, hidden from potential view of someone that might be in the house.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a big if, because I'm with you.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: I hear what you're saying and it makes complete sense.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're gonna go, go with the knowledge that you're not nearly as good as you think you are, the stress is gonna be off, you know, off the charts, and you need to proceed with as much caution and and humility as possible.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think a big piece of this whole puzzle, too, is that so many folks think I'm a good fit to solve this problem.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: I've had more training than my bad guy's gonna have, yada, yada, yada.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: All of that is probably true, right?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like most most of our street criminals are not out here practicing at the range on Saturday.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we're probably doing okay as far as skill level.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the difference is this is his life.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: This is what he does.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: He's used to having guns pointed at him.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's something he grew up with.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you are doing something that's very novel to you, very different from your, you know, square range practice, very different from even a force-on-force situation with airsoft guns, where the, you know, worst thing that can happen is you get a little bruise on your leg or something, right?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I think for a lot of folks, we think, well, I'm a good fit to solve this.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: But is your wife that you're leaving in the bedroom to go investigate, is she a good fit to solve the problem if you don't come back?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Does she have a gun in the room?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Does she know how to use it?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is she, you know, is that fair to put that on her to make her take a shot she never wanted to take because you weren't there to take it on her behalf?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if you really kind of spin it through all the way, I think most folks do, you know, kind of come to that decision of like maybe this isn't the best choice.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for for anybody, you know, myself included, there's always going to be that, that, you know, impulse to go check it out yourself.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to have the emotional control and regulation of yourself to say, okay, I've I've thought this through in a moment of clarity.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And this moment right now is not a moment of clarity.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is a moment of panic, you know.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so let me go back to the thing that I've I've thought out very well when I wasn't under any pressure or any stress.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, 911 can take a long time.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's obviously lots of good stories out there of home defense situations where somebody is able to, you know, protect their family without law enforcement involvement.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and sometimes even if law enforcement is there, they're not that helpful, you know.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I have a a friend, I can't say where this happened, um, but I can tell the story.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you're a firearms instructor teaching beginners all the way through full-blown tactical classes, and you'd like your students to get better faster and also add an additional revenue stream to your business, consider becoming a laser ammo dealer.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: RIFIRE lasers, reactive targets, smokeless range simulators, all these bits of kit help your clients and you, of course, get more trigger time without burning through hundreds of dollars worth of ammo.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Shoot me an email, Terry at laser ammo.com and let's get you and your clients dialed in with the best dry fire laser-based training equipment available.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And now, back to the episode.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: I have a friend who was getting into the shower and he heard glass break in his house, and he had just put his gun in his safe to go get in the shower.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: So he goes back to the gun safe, gets the gun out, you know, totally naked, right?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Walking through his house, and he realizes as he's walking down the hallway, why am I walking down the hallway?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let me go back to where I was, where I have kind of this nice view of anybody who walks into the kitchen or into the hallway.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: So he kind of retreats and he waits and he ends up uh, you know, the situation unfolded in a way where he did have to shoot the intruder.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: The intruder was armed and it became a whole thing.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, long story short, the police were actually already there outside of his home because they had been at the neighbor's house where this altercation began.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that gentleman was running from the police, broke, shot through my friend's window to get into his home, and then was inside his home for seven minutes before my friend had to use his firearm in self-defense.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: That seven minutes, the SWAT team was literally outside of his house, already on scene, had already been negotiating, and had not set a good perimeter around the original house.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so he was able to escape and get into my friend's house.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you think about that and you think, well, if that was my situation, I I would have called the police and, you know, I would have waited.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: The police were already there.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: They knew he was in his home and and they they let the situation unfold.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there was cars in the driveway.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I always think, you know, why why wouldn't they have gone in?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess there's, you know, concerns about hostage situations and all those types of things, too.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they want to tread carefully and and not bring more danger to the occupants of the home.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but sometimes even when the cops are there, you're your own first responder.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant! Like that story's fantastic.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: I to have the police sitting outside your very home as this is happening, and perhaps their ROE or the rules of engagement for them or their protocol for making entry to a residence requires them to seek uh confirmation from the chain of command.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's a reason that they're like, okay, well, we got a stack here, we our perimeter needs to be set up accordingly before we can even that takes time.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, our poor guy getting out of the shower is left to pretty much his own devices.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that he retreated to a good uh observation position, and I'm hoping reasonable concealment, if not cover, yeah, would have made all of the difference.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now I assume when he engaged that threat, the threat didn't uh get shots off on him.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you know?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, there were no returned, uh no returned shots.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just good guy shooting bad guy in that situation.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: And to make it a little bit even worse or funnier or whatever, uh, my friend didn't have his glasses on because he had been getting into the shower.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so he's he's got fuzzy vision, you know, but he sees a gun, he knows he knows bad guys got a gun.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's like what he could tell.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then was able to successfully get hits on target without any collateral damage at all.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was a hundred percent uh hit rate.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: So and then he calls 911.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: 911 tells him that there's already police in the area and they'll be there shortly.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then like immediately after he hangs up the phone, he hears the knocks on the door of the law enforcement that had already been there.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, wow, they're really quick.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't until it wasn't until later that he found out they had actually been there already negotiating uh with this guy, you know, who was threatening the life of his family and some other things.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: So uh they, you know, the police had already been there.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: But my friend told me he's like, you know, it was like I I hit the button and then I heard doot doot doot and I was like, wow, the cops are really fast in my neighborhood.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Fastest response time absolutely ever.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Does he happen to know what the response time usually is for law enforcement on a 911 call?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we looked it up actually, I think it was somewhere around 25 minutes for his jurisdiction for like a priority one.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um so our system here in California, I think most agencies kind of follow the same system, but it's like priority zero is like an active shooter.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Priority one is like danger of death or dying.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: So something's escalating, but you know, people aren't actively being killed.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then it goes down from there.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so priority one, which is what that call would have been, um, would would have like a 25-minute response time.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: My jurisdiction, uh, San Diego Police Department is a 37-minute response time for priority one calls.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is one of the reasons why I tell people if you do nothing else, you should you should know how far it is to get yourself to a hospital if you have to.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: You should have some medical training.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you should know what the bloody response time is likely to be in your area, and it's fairly easily researched, at least if for no other reason than to give yourself a ballpark, because obviously it's highly unlikely that the parks in your driveway unless you got really lucky that night.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Just to know how long, okay, well, what's my survival time?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: How long am I gonna have to fight?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: How long am I defending for before I can at least hope somebody shows up as backup to help me solve the situation?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And most people don't know.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: They don't realize how long they could potentially be waiting.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's so many agencies that don't make it easy to find that data.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: SDPD actually publishes a report every year where they give the previous fiscal year averages for different priority calls, and they say their goal for priority one is seven minutes, but they've, you know, they haven't been close to that goal in many, many, many years.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but even like, you know, I'll call in an occasional drunk driver or, you know, Road Rager, something like that.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on hold often when I call police in in my area.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I call 911, I get the hold signal, goes through this kind of like voice message where it's telling you, please don't hang up.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna answer as soon as we can.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've been on hold for like 10 minutes before just to get to the first dispatcher.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: Now dispatcher has to get the information they need to start rolling people in your direction, you know.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's easy to figure out how we get to a 37-minute average.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know for us it's about four and a half to five minutes.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: But we live in a smaller town.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is fast.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but we live in a smaller town.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they're actually a fairly well-funded police department, so they have there's never enough, right?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: But they have enough officers to make do.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of departments are so understaffed that that's one of the reasons why both from dispatch all the way through to actually having an officer or two or three or four arrive on your doorstep to help you take care of business can be so bloody long.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: They need more funding.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of the things I think I realized when when we when Nathan and I uh were kind of going through the process of of that first gun and and the decision making around that.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: We had multiple things happen at our apartment complex within a couple of months.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that really was a good kind of push for me as the person who was a little bit more uncertain about having a firearm in the home.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Seeing how long it took police to get there, you know, I I had a situation where a man was trying to steal a car in our parking garage, and I called 911, the police came and they actually caught him.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: So they were there pretty quick in that, in that particular case.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: But we lived in an area that had a lot of police presence in general.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, you know, the the guy's getting arrested.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: The officer asks me to come down to sign like a I can't remember what they called it, but it was like a complaint or something, like just basically saying what I had seen.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I go down there and the guy is not in the cop car yet.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's just handcuffed and he's like leaning up against the cop car.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I come downstairs to sign the thing and he starts screaming at me that he knows where I live and he's gonna come back and get me.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I asked the cop, like, hey, how long is he gonna be in jail?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, probably overnight.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: We're probably gonna have to let him out tomorrow.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Don't you have him on like stealing a car?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, No, because he hadn't successfully driven the car yet.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: He he was in the car, he was trying to steal it, but we can't get him on stealing a car.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: So they ended up getting him on like other stolen property that he had on him.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he had stolen like liquor or something from a local store.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so they were able to get him on some like really minor charge.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I I spent the rest of the time we lived in that apartment scared that that guy was gonna, you know, come back.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was a big a big part of my interest in like, okay, we've we've got this gun.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: I really got to figure out how to use it because now there's like a more tangible threat.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I, you know, I grew up in an area where there was a fair amount of crime, and you know, you hear about how bad Chicago is, you know, it it's it's all true.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of really bad stuff happening in Chicago.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it's not like I grew up insulated from bad people.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I knew that people killed people and that, you know, women get get got attacked on the street.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I guess it just became more real to me when it was something that felt like a more tangible, like physical threat.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: So for anyone that's listening that might be on the fence about firearm ownership, particularly women, because I am a huge advocate for leveling the playing field, to to put someone in a position where it doesn't matter if there's a hundred, hundred and fifty, maybe even two hundred pounds of difference between you and an attacker, you have an answer in terms of being able to hold your own through firearms.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: What recommendations would you make or what advice would you give in terms of sort of maybe taking someone off the fence and taking that first step towards firearm ownership?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think something that's so important is helping folks realize that shooting can be fun.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: And often if we are in a, like let's say there's there's 10 people in a room and only one of them owns a gun, a lot of times that one person isn't gonna be bringing up their gun ownership.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna be telling their friends, oh, by the way, I have a gun at home, right?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that's awkward.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people don't want to do that.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: But very casually, you could mention, like, oh, I don't know if I can go on Saturday because I think I'm gonna go to the range.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: That is a much easier transition into this conversation of firearms ownership.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I see friends who have gotten their friends who are very anti-gun to come do a one-time shooting experience.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then they come and they have fun and they leave feeling just a little less anti-gun than they showed up.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of, especially here in San Diego, I think, because of the political makeup of the community and you know, just kind of it's a it's a college town.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a lot of young people who are very anti gun.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think younger people more and more are being kind of raised to be anti-gun, especially, you know, the amount of media coverage.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: That the you know shootings and schools get and all of that.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so these young kids, young girls come to a class and they'll tell me, like, I'm scared of guns, I don't like them, I'll never have one, but I think it's a smart thing to at least know how to shoot.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly that's exactly where I want, you know, a new shooter to be coming from, that perspective, right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so we give them a fun experience on the range where they leave smiling, they leave having, you know, felt this kind of rush that wasn't as scary as they thought, you know, maybe a little adrenaline, and we get, you know, group photo and everybody's all smiles.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then that seed is just planted in their head.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think anybody can do that for their friends.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be a fantastic instructor to give them a positive first shooting experience.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also really easy to accidentally give them a negative first shooting experience.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that so many well-meaning people take their friend to the range and ends it ends in in somebody crying, it ends in an injury, it ends in, you know, slide bite.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: If a girl bleeds her first time shooting, she's probably not gonna shoot again, you know.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: So let's set her up for success.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let's set her up to have a good experience.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And usually, if if I'm just kind of like generally giving advice, usually what I would say is go to a range that tends to be pretty quiet during the day, you know, find a time where they don't have every bay full.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you could call ahead and ask, like, hey, are there days of the week that are slower than others?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: Or is there a day of the week where you think your indoor range will be pretty empty?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And try to try to hit one of those times.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Once you've got that, you know, obviously make sure that if you're shooting handguns, it's a handgun-only range.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want someone shooting an AR-15 right next to this girl, you know, or guy, but you know, mostly girls are gonna have a little bit more of that emotional response to shooting.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so let's find a quiet location, quiet bay, no rifles.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're gonna double up ear pro, just right off the bat.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna do foamies in ear and then an over-the-head electronic ear muff that has volume control.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: That way, even if it's really loud and it startles her, it's not gonna actually be causing physical discomfort to her ears.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Then we want to make sure she's prepared for what could happen.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's like mentioning that, hey, there's this brass that comes out of the gun that's gonna hit the wall next to you, and sometimes it might hit you.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: Just let her know that that's coming because otherwise the first time that happens, that could be an experience-ending incident.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: A piece of hot brass falls on her, she didn't know that was possible, and now she's done shooting for the day and maybe forever.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: So just let her know what to expect.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is how you pick up the gun safely.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is how you load the gun yourself and let her work through the steps.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: I always recommend starting new shooters off with load one, shoot one.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: So you do not give her a full mag, you put one round in the top of the mag, you hand it to her, and she goes through the process of loading and making ready with your, you know, verbal cues, but have her do that herself.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then she's only got one shot and now her gun is empty.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: So if she hits a bullseye and she's excited and she points the gun a little bit in an unsafe direction, it's an empty gun, right?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: We still obviously don't want to be pointing at people or whatever, but you're setting her up to have a more safe experience where she doesn't have to get yelled at as often.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you give her a full gun and she starts waving the gun around because she's excited that she just got a bullseye, you're gonna have to go hands-on, you know, hold the gun, put it in a safe direction and scold her.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also gonna be a negative experience.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we're just doing whatever we can to set her up for a good experience.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we want to check in often.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, like she takes a shot.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: How was that?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: How do you feel?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: Taking cues from her.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: If she's nervous or she jumped a lot, you know, maybe offer, do you want me to take a couple of shots you can hear what it sounds like?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, do you want me to load and make ready a couple of times you can see it again?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just taking cues from this the student or from the friend.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think oftentimes people, especially girls, get kind of pushed into something they're not comfortable with at the range.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if she does not want to shoot the rifle that you brought or she does not want to try the shotgun, don't push her.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not going to result in her loving shotgun shooting.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's something that could come later.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: She will maybe eventually love shotguns.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: But let's start her off on something easy to control that she will be able to feel in control of.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because one of the, I think the biggest reasons that people don't like their first shooting experience is because it feels out of control.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: They feel like they can't, you know, fight the recoil well enough, or that the gun pushed them back, or that the brass, you know, hit them and that was out of their control.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so as much as we can give them an experience where they feel in control, they feel safe, and they're not having, you know, noise sensitivity problems or anything like that, I think it's pretty easy to give them an experience that actually results in them thinking maybe I would do that again.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: Make that out of gold, a step-by-step all the way through.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if there was one thing I would add, it's that if you are intent on teaching someone to shoot and or just in introducing them to shooting, you've been doing it for a lot of years.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: The things that you now take for granted are the very first obstacles new shooters run into.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Firearm manipulation, loading the magazine, uh, being comfortable gripping the gun.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you I can't tell you how many times a guy's taken his all all his favorite guns to the range, right?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Full-size 2011s, we got a couple of 45s in there.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: As you mentioned, there's going to be an AR or a shotgun, right?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's going to be this array.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_01: Those are probably not the right guns to start that person shooting.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, there's got to be that sense of confidence that comes with I can grip this gun.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a myriad of guns to choose from, so start with traditionally smaller grip guns that are still uh metal framed that will absorb some of that recoil.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: You take for granted as an experienced user of firearms how surprising and shocking it is the first time even a low-caliber gun going off feels.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to anticipate, I think, that this individual, this is all brand new, the more in control someone can feel, as you mentioned, the better.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then being patient, talking through every step, never assuming that the recoil is going to be something, well, it's just a nine, right?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard somebody say that.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not just a nine to someone who's never shot before.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: That AR noise is not just an AR when you've never shot one before.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's taking consideration and taking stock of being patient enough with that person to really cultivate that sense of confidence and build the confidence up enough so that they leave smiling rather than crying.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because how many times have we seen that?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: Where somebody leaves the range, it's just like, I'm never never doing that again.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was bloody miserable.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I will say, like a lot of women have emotional responses on the range their first time, regardless of whether or not they end up having fun.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: So just because somebody cries doesn't mean you ruined it or you did something wrong.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's just the emotional release of doing something that they have built up in their head for possibly years as this really scary thing.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then they kind of conquer that fear.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: And for a lot of women, that in and of itself brings some emotion.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: It brings tears to the eyes.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean you did something wrong as the friend that's, you know, taking them to the range.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, when I'm talking about the bad type of crying, I'm talking about like you allowed her to shoot with a grip that resulted in her bleeding, or you allowed her to shoot with a grip that resulted in no control over the pistol.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's your responsibility if you're the friend bringing her to the range.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your responsibility is to make sure that she understands how to grip the gun properly.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, not any of this teacup stuff, right?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then if she's nervous, if you can tell she's nervous, a reassuring hand on the back of the shoulder for her first shot goes a long way to make her feel more comfortable.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or offering, do you want me to also have my hand holding the gun?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, oftentimes for a new shooter, if they have never fired before and I can tell they're really anxious about it, I will teacup underneath their hands.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: It does absolutely nothing for recoil control, but they feel like I'm helping and that helps them.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so some of it is just like the mental, the mental game of like, how do I help put this person at ease when I understand that they've probably built it up in their head as this really scary thing.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, sometimes you've got folks who come through who have, you know, trauma in the past from firearms.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so they're working through all of that.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I have a woman whose whose husband committed suicide with a firearm in their home, and she came to the range for the first time post that event, and she really struggled emotionally, but now she's a fantastic shooter and she loves shooting sports and she fought through that.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: But that took a lot of time and effort on her behalf to kind of fight through those complicated emotions that arose and understanding that she can use a firearm in a in a different way than you know what her husband used it for.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of times it's just being willing to meet someone where they are and say, yeah, this really sucks.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is really hard, but I'm gonna stand here with you until you're ready to take that shot.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not ready today, that's fine.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: You can pack it up and we can try again another day.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so just kind of meeting folks where they are and helping them get to the place where they can have a good experience.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think for anyone that's interested in becoming an instructor or if they want to expand and improve how they teach, just listening to the path you just laid out for taking a first-time female shooter, potentially nervous, though not everyone that goes shooting for the first time is nervous.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: But the majority are apprehensive in some way.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's some measure of stress that goes there.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just following what you've just laid out there for an instructor and perhaps even creating a one or a two-minute video explaining what their process is, could go a long way to encouraging someone who's like, okay, I do want to learn how to shoot.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: There is a gun in the house.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be at least knowledgeable to the point that this thing is not scaring me, just sitting there, you know, in the safe where it feels like it could go off all by itself at any moment, right?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: Just laying that out, if you're an instructor, meeting them where they are, but explaining what that even means, it's hugely important.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I I did read somewhere that you had said there there the problem with being a big fish in a little pond is I'm gonna let you finish that.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I so when I first started competing locally, I got to the point where I was performing really well at our local steel challenge match.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, kind of got a little bit of an ego about it because I was like, this it was like the only local match I had shot.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, look at me.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like finishing top five, you know, I'm pretty good.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went to a USPSA match and I saw these shooters that would like blow me out of the water.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, oh, there's a whole world out here of fantastic shooters that I did not know existed.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I see this kind of pattern happen with some of my students sometimes where they'll start doing well at like one of our chapter, you know, competitions or something, and they'll be like, wow, that was really good.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: That was really solid performance.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, that was really solid performance.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: But now let's put you in a pond where you're no longer the big fish.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you're the best shooter in my chapter, I am pushing you to go to USPSA matches with me.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: I am trying to drag you along because I know that that mentality left me stagnant probably for a year and a half or so before I kind of discovered USPSA.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so my, you know, kind of mentality of I am the a good shooter easily got got wiped away when I saw there's there's way bigger fish out there that are way better than than I am.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: So if you feel like you are in the top, you know, top 10% of the folks that you're shooting with, find some better shooters to shoot with so that they can push you and you can learn from them.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, at least for me, I'm a very competitive person.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like deep down in my soul, I have always been very competitive with myself and with other people.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'll be jogging in my neighborhood and the girl jogging across the street doesn't know we're racing, but in my head, we're racing, you know.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I've I've always kind of had this competition mindset.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I started pushing myself in competition, I was way more interested in the disciplined dry fire practice that I needed to do at home.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was way more interested in the kind of boring range practices that I had kind of gotten tired of doing.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: But now I had this like renewed sense of why that practice was important and where it was going to help me get.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's that's been my journey.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's not every everybody's not built as competitive as I am, but it is helpful to see what else is out there and to push yourself and and force yourself to grow.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: I know it can feel really comfortable staying where you are doing really well.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there is a lot of, I think, anxiety and and stress that comes from pushing yourself those first few times.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: But if anyone is on the fence about getting into the competitive sports, I just want you guys to know that the competitive sports folks are so, so nice.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: They want newer shooters to join.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: They want to help you succeed.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: They, you know, if you call the match director and say, I've never been to a USPSA match, he will probably find you a big brother or a big sister the moment you walk up and he will say, Hey, you're on the squad with this guy.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna walk you through everything.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: The community is so welcoming.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: So don't let your, you know, concern of maybe I'm not good enough or it'll be embarrassing.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: Don't let that stop you from growing.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think having you as an instructor is also probably bloody fantastic because you've got a great, a great gentle way of explaining everything in a way that makes complete sense.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing I want to back up von for just one second is uh slide bite, because there are gonna be someone out there that's a new shooter that's like, slide bite, what what is biting me?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I explain that before I give you my last question.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when you are learning a proper grip on a handgun, there is no chance that the slide is going to cut you.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a good grip on the gun, you're gonna be just fine.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't know what you're doing or the person who's teaching you doesn't pay close attention, it's possible for you to put your other hand, your non-shooting hand, behind the slide.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of a natural thing when you pick up a gun.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: You think you should cross one thumb this way and one thumb that way.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: It kind of feels like secure.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's normal that folks try to pick the gun up that way.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: But if you press the trigger and your non-shooting hand is behind the slide, it can cut you when the slide moves back and forth when you shoot the gun.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so some folks will get what we call slide bite just because they weren't taught a proper grip.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, another way that some folks kind of bleed sometimes is if you push your magazine in and you've got a little, I got fat little uh palms down here.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes they get pinched, you get a little blood blister or something.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's something that can also be explained by somebody who's being mindful and paying attention to how you're doing things.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I I would say if you're if you've never shot a gun, probably try to find a good instructor in your area.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if if you've got a friend that's a good shooter, you know, maybe have them watch this video first and then take you to the range.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, we we want you to go shoot, whether it's with an instructor or with a friend, just be aware that you're gonna want to pay attention to what they tell you, make sure you're holding the gun right.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many YouTube videos and stuff if you want to do some research ahead of time.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: Tatiana Whitlock is a fantastic instructor that has a whole series for new shooters on YouTube.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you if you look up Tatiana Whitlock, I think they're on the Walther channel.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she's on their their shooting team.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: The Walther channel has the is the host of those, that, that series, those videos.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you could just watch them before you go so that you feel a little bit more prepared to.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: So with a a a girl and a gun, you are you doing anything in the political realm with with promoting 2A in your area?
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: How how does that work?
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so a girl in a gun is a shooting club.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I run the San Diego chapter.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: I do four events every month with a fantastic team of volunteers that help with RSOing and uh assistant instructing and greeting people at the door and taking the money and all the things.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that chapter is shooting events kind of through from handgun safety and fundamentals up to like intro to three gun stuff.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a pretty widespread of skill sets and and what the group is doing.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: That group in and of itself isn't very political.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um my work on Gun Owners Radio, uh, San Diego County Gun Owners is our kind of local political group.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of two A activism happening among that group.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm on a case right now against the state called Richards V Bonta, where we're fighting against the 10-day wait that we currently have in California.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so being a plaintiff on lawsuits is a great way to get involved.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got a local Second Amendment organization in your in your community that is fighting, you know, either your your city government or your state government over unconstitutional, you know, Second Amendment policies or laws, that's definitely a great way to get involved.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but then we also do a lot of like election stuff as well, just from the more political side.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: What's the easiest way to stop a gun grabber from becoming the governor?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: Stop him from getting elected to your local school board, stop him from getting elected to your local water board.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like just fight the good fight locally at the small, you know, the smaller elections.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: Try to get people that have, you know, good Second Amendment policies in place or that are at least willing to support and have conversations with the local 2A groups.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think political activism is really kind of where it's at, especially seeing the the sharp turn that some of the states are making right now.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we just saw Virginia completely decimate people's rights.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I think we're gonna see other states trying to follow suit.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: Really, they copy-pasted California laws and took them to Virginia, and that's going to continue to be the trend.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's already these, you know, these policies in place, they can just copy-paste it and change the name of the state.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so, you know, fighting the good fight, even in states that don't currently have any big fights to fight, if you're in a state that feels really safe, if you don't do anything, the fight is going to come to your state.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: You eventually will live in a state that's not safe if you're not being involved now.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to get involved in places like California and New York and Virginia and Colorado and all these places that are are passing absolutely atrocious civil rights violations.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: That is where your money should be getting spent.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: Help those states fight, help those states win in court so that the fight doesn't come to your state.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, don't think just because you live in one of the gun-friendly states that you're good and you don't have to get involved politically.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_02: You should be involved in Second Amendment activism and in states all across the country.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: So Amen.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well put.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if somebody wants to get it either in touch with you or perhaps join your chapter, or hopefully both, how would you like them to get in contact?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you live in the San Diego area and you're interested in classes or um, you know, a girl and a gun San Diego or, you know, being a guest on Gun Owners Radio or whatever, right?
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you if you just want to get in touch with me, that would be A G A G period S D C A at Gmail.com.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it stands for a girl and a gun, A-G-A-G, uh, and then San Diego, California, for those of you who didn't get the the acronyms.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you could send me an email there.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you want to read more about me, uh my website is right now actually under um uh what's it called?
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's being worked on, so it's not up right this moment, but um just my first and last name, so dakotaadelphia.com.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's where you can get more information about CCW classes and other things that I do.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: So fantastic.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'd like to put a shout out on your behalf at this point.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: So any companies in the firearms industry that are listening, if you're looking for someone who represents the firearms industry, you're looking to sponsor someone who lives, breathes, communicates well on camera and behind the microphone, can connect with newer shooters without alienating experienced ones and genuinely represents the community the right way.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think Dakota is someone you absolutely should be reaching out to.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're a phenomenal shooter and a phenomenal communicator, and I'm so glad you took time to jump on the podcast.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: This was a lot of fun.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I really appreciate the opportunity and all the kind words.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: All right, thank you for everyone that's tuned into this episode.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate you coming back week after week.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to hit that like button and then subscribe so you don't miss an episode.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Also, that support helps us keep.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: bringing you the content and the guests that you want to hear from.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: For now, that is the end of today's episode and I look forward to seeing you guys in the next one.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers so much.