Latest / TezTalks Radio - Tezos Ecosystem Podcast / 112: A Baker’s Path From Venezuela To Tezos

Transcript

112: A Baker’s Path From Venezuela To Tezos · TezTalks Radio - Tezos Ecosystem Podcast

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Tez Talks Radio.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, and today I'm talking with someone many of you know from his baking work and from the writing he shared on Tezos Commons.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: He goes by Libra Tez, he runs a home setup, he's been active in the community for years, and he's been open about the experiences that shape the way he looks at money and trust.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: His story isn't something studied from a distance.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: He lives through a currency collapse in Venezuela.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that background changed how he looks at trust, value, and the tools that people rely on when everything else stops working.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to talk about where he comes from, how crypto first entered his life, what baking means to him, and how writing became a way for him to share the parts of his past that still matter now.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Libertez, thank you for joining me.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get into my story, how are you feeling today?
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what has your week looked like so far?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so far so good.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, man.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh wow, what an intro, bro.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's looking good.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's looking good so far.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for asking, and thank you for having me here.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, is there anything interesting going on in your world right now?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, actually, I'm I'm working to to build uh to get ready my BLS signer actually for the Baker.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm getting the parts.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I got the parts already, but I have to uh assemble it and you know do all the things, so it's pretty exciting and stuff.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully this week it's gonna be ready.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: You'll have to let us know how that goes.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: You've kind of given us an idea of what life looks like right now.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want to rewind a bit.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: When you think back to life before everything started to shift in Venezuela, what do you remember about the rhythm of that time?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh yeah, we're we're pretty uncertain times, I would say.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um uncertainty is something that many people face, but not on a daily basis, and that's what you know makes uh the things, uh, you know, this this experience a little bit different.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we get to to choose on very, very strange scenarios on a daily basis, and that's pretty tough to to handle.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when you are living through these times uh where you have to constantly, you know, be chasing, uh trying to survive uh for for things, for goods, and of course, you know, things get really tough and it's very very hard to to to uh to imagine.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, many people cannot put themselves into the in into this situation because that's a very weird situation.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a common thing to happen, it's just uh it just happened in a few countries, and we are now 200 countries around the world.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Only a bunch of countries has faced uh such collapse.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, before that I would say everything was kind of normal because you know there were so many red flags uh along the way that you usually ignore as a citizen, and when they you know add up in the end, uh it it ends up being uh very uh very bad for for the economy, for for the society, for everything.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when things changed in Venezuela, it wasn't one moment, it was a slide.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: When you look back on that period now, what was the point where you realized your family's world had really turned turned?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would think uh my father or my family business I was I was I was a child, well not child, but I was a teenager and they started uh like in 1998.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: My father started this uh auto parts business and he consolidated the business in 1999, you know, he started to to have some uh a small shop and things like that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um in 20 in 2002, they the government made uh capital controls, they installed capital controls in in Venezuela.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was it was supposed to be a uh a smart move, you know, to control, you know, not to to get uh dollars out of the country and things like that.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, they were using a lot of uh uh um excuses for what they did, and all of them were you know BS basically, and only a bunch of countries were able to get dollars, and of course that created a black market, and then you have to navigate all of these black markets because as a regular business, you you don't have access to this, you know, the bureaucracy was something very, very, very hard to go through, and um the majority of the country was basically living through the black market, but the prices in the black market are not the same that in regular prices, of course.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you start to make uh your living out of that, you try to normalize this stuff, this stuff gets normalized, you you you won't believe it, but uh you will see very weird things in the economy, they start being very normalized, you know, triple, double, quadruple prices from you know one week to another, they start looking like normal, and people start to rationalize all of this stuff because you know some uh I think people fall into this uh normalcy bias.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to accept the situation, and they you know, you just kick the can upstream, you know, they kick it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you can be like that for years, and I would say in 2010 things started to fall apart.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the the the crisis in around the world, the 2008 crack, uh of course it made everything worse.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and at that time, 2010, 2012, things started to fall apart really quickly, and all of these little things that started to, you know, they they happened to be like not normal, but well, they started to add up, and at some point it was impossible to ignore, and they were too big, and everything fell apart.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the hyperinflation started kicking in, the economy, it was very difficult to keep up, a lot of uh business, a lot of uh businesses went out of you know of business, and uh it was very hard, it was it was very tough, and uh you know uh the con one of the biggest consequences of of this um economic uh crisis is um is uh insecurity.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, the things start to be dangerous in the street because people start to do crazy stuff to survive.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we were robbed twice and uh a gunpoint and uh it is hard also because you know you are surviving economically, but at the same time you have to be careful with your life as well, because you if you have a car and nobody has a car, or if you have you know certain things, uh we were like middle, middle class, I would say, and you have certain things, you know, certain goods and values and things like that, you started to be a target of insecurity or of you know people who who just choose violence instead of you know trying to to work out their their their way out of this situation.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: So uh because of this situation, of course, we were robbed twice and we were bankrupt because of the bank robber because of this.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And at some point we decided to just stop and just leave the country, man, because uh it's either you can continue and um probably you're gonna make enough money just to survive, but you're not gonna make money to to have savings, you're not gonna make money to scale your business, because if you scale your business in the middle of such a situation, you're gonna be a target.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so there are so many implications that just tell you don't scale, don't invest, don't do anything under a country that is in such a poor situation.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: So the best move, in my opinion, is to leave, not to try to fix anything or try to do anything, because unless you are in a position of power, you're not gonna make any difference at all.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And in the middle of all that, you still had to find something you could rely on.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, basically uh the currency was shit, and we we all turned uh uh to dollars.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So dollar became like the de facto currency in the in the country, but it was illegal to have dollars.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if the government caught you with dollars, you were going to face fines and things like that.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you were basically navigating the black market on your own, illegal doing very you know illegal stuff, of course, illegal stuff, you know, within quotes, because you are just surviving, you have to buy and sell stuff.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this business just skyrocketed like the the business of you know exchanging money.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there were people basically dedicated exclusively for that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing it at some point as well.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing like you know, third-party exchange money because I uh at some point in that time I had a Chase Bank account and I was using like a you know a triangle, you know, to use like to do short, very, very small uh um uh transfers and to to avoid getting caught uh or or get my my my account blocked or something like that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you uh you were basically looking for whatever give you the opportunity to get a little bit of uh money here or there, you you you did it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: You did it because you know otherwise you're gonna be fucked.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine you know, 20 something million people just doing the same thing, basically, you're just looking for options.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Some people were doing you know, you know, at the margin of illegal stuff, like myself.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I I would include myself there.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um some people just won't go and full illegal stuff, just trace stuff, and and yeah, and you are in the middle of all of this.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it's hard, man.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a hard life.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have so still so many friends there, uh actually living probably it's a very different situation right now, but still very hard.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Very hard to to survive.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and every day, every day I talk to some friends that I still have there.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the the stories are horrible stories all the time.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like it's a never-ending thing.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, you said crypto didn't start as an investment for you, it started as a way to breathe.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: What was the first moment you realized it could actually help your situation?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the thing is that for example, in 2016, I got my Chase account closed.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was doing so many, even even though they were like$80,$100, because I I didn't have much money back then.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was at the university and things like that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I was selling paint drive and things like that in about the time to survive at the university.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I always have like$200 or$150 and something like as a university guy, it was it was enough for me.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was actually in 2009 more less, this this when when I started to to use the the account.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And 2016 the account was was closed.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um because you know, I just send in like you are using like basically I I they didn't give me even a reason why they they close it up.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: But they just say like it's done.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh, I because I was getting, you know, uh when I was changing like a hundred dollars or something like that, I was getting like ten dollars, eight dollars, you know, the exchange rate.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was using this as well with another friend of mine.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's it's crazy what you end up doing just to to to to to survive, man.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what can I say?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, what did it like when it look like when you were first using crypto in that situation?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, yeah, the the the crypto thing.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and some point, of course.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when I got the the the account blog, I was like, oh, uh oh, that we had a problem here.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't have um you know how to to do it.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Back then, the there was this uh peer-to-peer, it was it was even like a forum.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was not like a full-fledged exchange, like you have an app and you have right now everything very, very easy.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Back then it was like a forum where you posted or things like that back and forth, the the price of the thing.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was very, very manual.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: But they have kind of a KYC with the UID.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started, you know, with Bolivares, I started to buy Bitcoin and Monero.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Back then was also Dash, and it was like four or four cryptocurrencies that we were using back then in Venezuela, like Dash, Monero, and and Bitcoin was were very very popular, these three.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So since I I I got blocked from from the US, I I started to use in parallel this uh as well.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I was using you know Bitcoin, Dash, and all of this.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing peer-to-peer and I was exchanging, and I was inviting everybody to to just use this because I don't have a way to use dollars and things like that.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was using dollars but only in cash, but you're not more electronically.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: So at some point you you just get used to it, and then you started to see like, okay, this thing they they cannot block this, they cannot confiscate any of this.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: They can I was like, okay, this is there's something here with this shit.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like this thing, a blockchain, and then I started, you know, the rabbit hole.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I started to to to to research, and and I was talking to a lot of my friends, like, man, we we should all be using this because then no government can control this, nobody can ban these uh accounts.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I, you know, it was just the click, like, okay, this is a real deal.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: There is something here, and then I started to to of course research about cryptocurrency.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I found out you know, there were like Litecoin, all of this started to come up because it was in the time where uh 2019, 17, 18, when it was the first fit first bull run.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And back then I was already you know into into into a lot of trading, but I was not into full into into the cryptocurrency stuff.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I was already doing a lot of buying and selling in Bolivar's mainly.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um also in cash, because you know, you you give cash to the people in dollars, you get cryptocurrency, and vice versa, you get cryptocurrency, you get dollars back.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but in person, so it was not very, very good because you know, in person is is is it's dangerous in a country like Venezuela.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have to pay sometimes uh unknown people, and uh it was a little bit there were a lot of tension there.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, I mean it's uh in in in that time I started to use crypto because the country itself was starting uh using crypto mostly in Caracas, because I'm not from Caracas, I'm not from the capital, I'm from the east in the province.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So uh a lot of people in Caracas were using cryptocurrencies, like a lot of people.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they started to use, you know, even businesses started to accept Dash, and Dash was like a big deal in because they have kind of a privacy tab or something like that that you could use back then.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it was it it got big in in Venezuela, and Dash has a like a big run in 2017, and everybody was you know writing that as well, and you know, it got it got very popular and it was very widely used, and there weren't many others, but mostly those those ones like Dash, Bitcoin, and Monero was used as well.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So from there you went from using it to actually helping secure a network.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've technically been baking for years now, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Since 2022.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And now you keep your setup simple on purpose.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: What pulled you toward running a node in the first place?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you know, when when I started, I started as a delegator in 2019, just one year mostly or a few months uh after the mainnet launch of Tesos.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when when the DAO hack and the Bitcoin uh block size war happened, uh I was like, okay, because I was researching heavily on I was very into the cryptocurrency in that moment, like 2019.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, this is the real deal.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have to support the thing, this technology has this is something here.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I I have a technical background, so I was very also I liked it a lot.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, this is very cool.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and you know, the there were things happening to me.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I got banned by Chase.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was like, okay, this is this something here that this is I can escape these systems using this stuff.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2019, I started uh researching, you know, for for governance because I I read an article, I don't remember if it was an article or was a forum about the block size war, the Bitcoin block size war, and all this Ethereum DAO hack that they were forking the network and all of this, you know, forking, forking.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, what this is fork shit stuff.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was researching about forking.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what is what they are forking?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: What are these two communities?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why I was I was I was trying to to understand why the community is splitting, like what are people like, no, this is the not the this is the fake Bitcoin, this is the real Bitcoin.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what the shit, what is going on?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, which which one is is the one?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, why we were so good, we were all together, we were using Bitcoin, everything was fine, and suddenly there are two Bitcoins and one Bitcoin cash, one Bitcoin.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what the hell is happening?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started researching, researching, and then I found out the the fucking thing, uh, the splitting, the no-governance system.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, okay, this is a very good technology, but it needs kind of a coordination, like a human coordination stuff.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, hmm.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started researching that.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe there is someone I said to myself, like, maybe there must be teams, some you know, people around the world that must be trying to solve this problem.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then I found this on-chain governance.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, Tesos came up first because it was like nobody was using that.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was only named sometimes, it was mentioned somewhere here and there, but nobody was using it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but Tezos was using it from day one.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, which is these people, who are these people behind this blockchain called Tezos?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and then I started searching back then they were uh putting the they were uh voting the Babylon uh proposal.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, they are voting, how they are voting, okay.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: The tokens, and then I I would you I just went the rabbit hole.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, I think these guys are into something with this because this way you cannot exactly I mean there's no incentive to fork the network, and then I was I was reading a lot about game theory and all of this incentive and stuff.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up in 2019, you know, buying Tesla's, becoming a delegator, and then when I became a delegator, I started to see all the things happening in the network.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I started uh even my ex account, but not as a liver test, just uh a random uh account.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like that like for two years.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: But because back then, the two, three years, because back then, you know, baking on Tesla's from source, uh, I wouldn't say it's difficult, but it's it's it's a little bit technical, you need to know certain things.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was not willing to do all of you know to pass through all of this process, and I was like, okay, I was also thinking like there must be someone who is developing something to make this stuff easier to do.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And at some, you know, in 2022, yeah, the guys at Test Capital, they started developing test bake, and I was like, okay, this is the thing.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I researched, yeah, it is.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of you know jumped into it almost immediately.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: After three months, they were developing that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was one of the first bakers that started using the tool and started baking.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I started baking, I said, okay, I'm gonna go full-fledged, like I'm gonna get my account, I'm gonna do like an evangelist stuff with this.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then in 2022, you know, I was public, everything.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you are pretty much part of that process, that part of my life in online.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you think about decentralization in your day-to-day work as a baker, what does that idea mean to you in a practical sense?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh what you mean is ugly.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Decentralization in what sense?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you talk about these systems that have locked you down.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: You have a perspective that is very unique, sir.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: So how how does baking almost embody your escape?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you talk about it was a way to break free.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: How did you see that as a way?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because when for example, when you find when you found a system that helps you to transact, that helps you to to do things that you would need a permission from other systems to use, uh, you want to be part of it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, in my opinion, it was like kind of for me, right now, even right now, I find it very weird that people don't want to participate heavily on this kind of thing.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I came to the conclusion that people don't do that unless they go through the meat grinder.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when people have, I mean, when people go through very difficult situations where they are banned, they are censored, they are robbed or whatever, then they start considering new options.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: And in my opinion, of course, I'm not saying like, oh, I am very smart because I am doing this and nobody's noticing.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, because probably I I I went through this because I went through the other thing before.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I went to the fiat collapse.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: So since I left this stuff, I I kind of get a different view from this type of new systems.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I want these systems to thrive.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want, and then the the only way to to to help the system is to become part of it, like to be part of the infrastructure.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if that is not expensive, is something easy to do, is it's affordable, is the the the entry is you know, the requisities are low, like in Tezos, like you know, all Tezos, you know, just checks all these boxes, then why not?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna be part of this because these systems are gonna help people to survive situations that I couldn't survive properly.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So my my view is it's very easy.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like when when when I started to research and found all of this, I was like, I need to be part of this, of course, for myself first, and then for other people's work, because I think this real this economic collapse is gonna happen somewhere sometime, somewhere else.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna happen in many places, in my opinion, according to what we know right now about you know the fiat situations around the world.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think it's gonna happen in many places, uh, either partially, complete collapse, or whatever, but at some point you are gonna need a tool like this, and you want to have everything in place to be able to survive.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: You you don't want to wait until that happens to do okay, we need to do it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, bro.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, because things another thing that people usually don't don't take into account is the the the security thing.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh in those situations, you don't want to go out, you don't want to be on the street, like you you are you probably even you are gonna buy something on Amazon.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say let's see, let's say that you know it happens in the US or in your region, I don't know, and you have Amazon, and you usually buy Amazon today, you got everything tomorrow.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: When this kind of collapses happen, even the logistics are disrupted.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe your card in Amazon, you are gonna buy, and then they are gonna say, okay, in 15 days it's gonna be there.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know that your life starts to fall apart in in certain you know ways like you didn't expect it.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then you say, Okay, I should have done this way before, or when I start to see flags, you know, red flags here and there.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I better get a that's what I be I be I basically became a prepper because of this.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't want to be in uh solving problems in the middle of the situation.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that part of the preparation mentality is what basically made me a baker.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to be already baking, I want to be already validating in the network.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to wait to buy the computer, to buy the stuff, to buy the things that I need to be part of the network, to learn as well the knowledge-based part, like how it works.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't want to be making transactions very nervously in a in a difficult situation, and you haven't done one transaction before, you know.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be um like you know what you need you need to have some expertise before you you go through these situations.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: So this kind of activity helps you to be more confident or everything when you are gonna face situations like this.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've watched Tezos change from different angles for a long time.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you look at the network today, what feels important to you about where it's heading?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah, uh I've seen uh a lot of changes, and for me it is crucial that the network have kept this cypherpunk mentality, these cypherpunked ideals.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have they are in my opinion, the vision of Tesos have even though the architecture of the network has changed, the vision hasn't changed.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's for me what keeps me there, like keeps me here, you know, supporting the network, everything.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like the maybe then the the technical ideas have shifted from you know from one place to another, but the the core values are there, like decentralization, scalability, uh speed.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: They you won't want to sacrifice any of this.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um they have kept this promise, at least in my view, uh they have kept this from the very beginning.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Since I started reading about Athens, Babylon, all of these upgrades all the way to Seoul.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: They have pushed these uh values in all of them.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything that they do so far, they have done so far, is is done thinking about solving these blockchain trilemma problems that a lot of other projects faced.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And most of them actually took you know the shortcuts and things like that.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they have started to cut corners and they started to do things just to get things faster and things that are sacrificing decentralization, security.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I didn't like those things in other projects, and that's what I focus on.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is because those those guys so far they they have been you know true to the values they they they shared like six years ago when I started uh supporting the network.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: So why wouldn't I just help them?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh I I'm not a developer, I'm not uh you know, a core developer.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of understand what's going on in the space, I kind of understand uh what's happening in the world.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I really value these these ideals that they are pushing, uh, even though there are many narratives and you know a lot of very weird narrative memes, you know, because people people want usually the majority of people, not everyone, but there is a bunch of big amount of people that want the projects to follow narrative.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they want push the projects to, you know, the narrative now is this, just let's push for this, let's go, everybody.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you go after narrative after narrative after narrative, you are gonna end up burnt out, like because it doesn't lead to anywhere.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I liked a lot about this is that they have sticked to their main values.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like we are gonna solve the, we are gonna make blockchain mainstream, we need scalability, we need decentralization, we need this technology to try under these circumstances.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: We are gonna stick to it even though it's not the thing in fashion.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: At some point it was in fashion, at some point it was not, and then but they have they have navigated that in a very, very well professional way, and I liked it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I wanna end on something for the people who are just getting started.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or someone who's new to all of this, maybe thinking about delegating or staking or running a baker someday.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: What would you want them to hear from someone who's lived through what you've lived through?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, to be honest, if a person has gone through what I've been through, um uh for for sure it he already or she already knows about cryptocurrency.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's a natural thing, like you need to find ways to to survive.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: For example, in Venezuela, right now I have so many friends that they use UST on a daily basis, but they use it using Binance and things like that.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: So they are they are already very, very I mean the penetration there is huge, uh at least exchanges-wise.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say like study study fiat.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: I always say this because people want to get into crypto without understanding why crypto exists.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like how why would you want to to try something if you don't find meaning in that?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would I use this if I have the other system?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but if you understand that the system where you are that you are working right now is is rigged, then you are gonna have the excuse to okay, I need to find something else, you know, because this this system doesn't serve me well, you know, it's not doing the best it can do, so I need to find ways to to new ways to to move value.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then I usually I usually tell people like you need to understand fiat currencies first, at least on a surface level, and then reading about fiat currencies, you are gonna come up with this question, like, but oh my god, this is a scam.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is and then you are gonna say, Okay, cool, yeah, this is a kind, and then you are gonna come up with the this idea like we need to do something, yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have to, because there is blockchain already, you know, and it's like, and then you are gonna start looking for blockchain or looking for this information with a different perspective.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: You already know that I mean, it's like once you see it, you can unsee it, but you already know that the previous system is a scam, it's rigged.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you are gonna research cryptocurrency with a different mindset.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna research from this position of I want to learn about this, this is the future, this has to be implemented, I want to help, I want to do something.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: And no, uh, and not only you are not gonna enter crypto like the majority of people entering crypto from the speculation side of things.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they enter like, okay, I want you to enter crypto to make more fiat.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then for me, it's like if you enter crypto to make more dollars or fiat or whatever or whatever shitcoin your government has to offer you, then you haven't understood uh crypto, let alone fiat.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you understand fiat, you want to get rid of fiat, you want to you want to jump into something different, you want to do something different.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are into crypto to make fiat, you haven't understood anything.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you are into crypto to understand crypto to to adopt this technology, and then use fiat only for what you are gonna be using for a daily basis just to survive in that fiat world only, that fiat world collapses, then you understood crypto.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you understand this, when you see these people, for example, artists in Argentina that I that I met them uh a few uh uh two weeks ago when I was in Argentina for Def Connect, like they under they understand.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: They understand because they have gone, they it they didn't go like complete collapse, they it was like a partial collapse, but it it went really bad there as well.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Not as bad as Venezuela, but it went really bad.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: They understand, like all of these artists, they aren't they are they are not there only to make fiat, or they they understand the technology in a different way, they want the technology to to thrive, they want this system because they they know that they cannot be censored, they know they that nobody can steal their funds, they know that nobody can block their funds, and they treat crypto different because they understand or they understood fiat.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that that that would be my my advice.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Libortez, I appreciate you taking the time to sit with me today and speak the way that you do, Eddy and Honest.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hearing your story in your own words adds a lot to how people understand you, not just as a baker, but as a person who lived and appreciated the way you look at all the time.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for being here.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And for everyone listening, thank you for spending time with us.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be back with another episode soon.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining.