Latest / FUTURE OF XYZ / Future of Passive House | Luis Medina & Ken Levenson | S7 E14
Transcript
- 00:00:04:00 - 00:00:32:24 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Future of XYZ. We're up with another awesome topic this week. We're going to be speaking about the future of Passive Houses or passive House, as the movement is known. And with us we have two experts in the field. Luis Medina, principal at studio 397 Architecture in Brooklyn, New York, and Ken Levenson, who is also an architect. 00:00:33:01 - 00:00:44:03 Speaker 1 but also the executive director of the passive House network, also based in Brooklyn, New York. gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us on future of XYZ today. 00:00:44:05 - 00:00:46:12 Speaker 2 Excited to be here. Thank you for having thank you. 00:00:46:14 - 00:00:48:07 Speaker 3 Great to be here. 00:00:48:09 - 00:01:18:13 Speaker 1 well, we're going to start I mean, in between the two of you, you have a lot of experience. I mean, Luis, you're you're focused. Obviously, you have, an Ms. in construction management from NYU. And actually, I was really interested to learn, a bachelors in business administration, specifically accounting from UMass Amherst. whereas, Ken, you studied architecture at Pratt and have practiced architecture for, for 20 plus years before kind of diving deep into the passive house, movement as I'm going to call it. 00:01:18:13 - 00:01:33:07 Speaker 1 Would you guys can correct me about but and been an expert in this field. So between the two of you, how do we define, passive House? Like, that's probably the most important question for our listeners. 00:01:33:09 - 00:02:05:00 Speaker 3 I'm out. I'm happy to take a stab at it. Unless you want to spell out, or, I think really it's about focusing on the passive aspects of a building, the actual architecture of the building. It's really empowering the architecture to drive the performance outcomes. So rather than worrying, or relying on mechanical systems, air conditioning and heating to to make any kind of design work. 00:02:05:02 - 00:02:36:01 Speaker 3 it's saying we're going to, design the envelope, the enclosure, the, the form of the building, the way it works in such a way that the passive pieces, the insulation, the air tightness, the windows and doors, the orientation, the massing, all work to help deliver really high quality building, which then we add a bit of air conditioning, a bit of heating to. 00:02:36:03 - 00:02:36:24 Speaker 3 So yeah, I think. 00:02:37:01 - 00:02:49:12 Speaker 1 It's it's basically passive as a definition is actually allowing the building to exist without humans interference on energy consumption and things like that, as much. 00:02:49:14 - 00:02:52:18 Speaker 3 To minimize. Yeah. Well you said it now. 00:02:52:20 - 00:03:19:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. No, I think I think that like one thing that I for me have an experience with a lot of interiors, that I compare with other certifications because there's so many, you know, certifications out there is that it always feels like passive House is very comprehensive. And like Ken mentioned, like there's just this focus on on the architecture where it kind of just, captures everything and it feels like, yeah, comprehensive. 00:03:19:06 - 00:03:30:01 Speaker 2 Just versus other certifications that focus more on, on a specific aspect, like the interiors or the, feeling of, of the space. You know. 00:03:30:03 - 00:03:48:08 Speaker 1 It's interesting because it's called the movement. And the accreditation which we'll talk about is called passive House. But what I'm hearing, I didn't hear any of you talk about houses. It's actually a standard that can be applied to any building. Is that correct? 00:03:48:10 - 00:03:55:05 Speaker 3 Yes, I'll do that right now. Maybe we should say this if you want to. Like, we'll go back and forth. Is that. Yeah. 00:03:55:08 - 00:03:57:11 Speaker 1 Strictly. 00:03:57:13 - 00:04:00:10 Speaker 3 And then we can fill in each other's as we go. 00:04:00:12 - 00:04:01:08 Speaker 2 Sounds good. 00:04:01:10 - 00:04:04:06 Speaker 3 I take a stab. 00:04:04:08 - 00:04:26:16 Speaker 2 sure. I'll take it. yeah, I think my my understanding this, you know, I just read something about one of the tallest, skyscrapers. This plan land in Brooklyn for passive House. and then you can also do see smaller projects where it's like, renovation of a residential home that's going after a certification. So there's huge scale on the size of the project and the scope. 00:04:26:17 - 00:04:49:22 Speaker 2 So the project, unfortunately for me, because again, for a lot of, our opportunities as a firm are mostly more in interiors in New York, without touching the building envelope and really addressing the architecture itself. you know, it's not like other certifications where you can just focus on interiors. So, but yeah, the scale so the projects can vary. 00:04:49:24 - 00:05:17:23 Speaker 3 Yeah. And I would just add, to those that Luis mentioned, with two schools in downtown Brooklyn were just completed at, elementary school and high school, on Flatbush Avenue. And, we have a 54 story office building that was completed in Boston. They’re factories, there's a Subaru dealership in in Canada. really, it runs the gamut at this point. 00:05:17:23 - 00:05:44:14 Speaker 3 At first, it started with not just single family homes, but multi small multifamily homes, and it really scaled with social housing in Europe, multifamily and that's where a huge opportunity is. And it pairs really nicely with the needs of, affordable housing and high quality housing and the how housing shortage that we have. So interesting that application. 00:05:44:16 - 00:05:52:05 Speaker 1 And what are the benefits of passive house construction? You talked about a little bit what it is, but what are the benefits? 00:05:52:07 - 00:06:24:16 Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I'll start by saying, you know, what's amazing? Is that it? It's it's headline is energy efficiency, right? Everybody talks about they're using very little energy. But the kind of secret to that in the design and optimization of the architecture of the building is that through energy efficiency, we're making a very comfortable interior environment. We're making a very healthy interior environment. 00:06:24:18 - 00:06:52:14 Speaker 3 We're making a quiet, resilient, environment, one that we can have daylight, we can have views. We can even have fresh air blowing through on nice days. and, and, and so the, the benefits are wide. it's something that folks typically look at as being risky. It's new. What is this, like the mechanical systems of fraction of the size. 00:06:52:16 - 00:07:07:16 Speaker 3 How does this work? But really it takes in a lower risk investment for the long term because of its resilience. One of the terms we use is is future proof for it. 00:07:07:18 - 00:07:29:05 Speaker 1 future proof is a word, I've used a lot in my career, as if as a as a futurist, a little, a little less now that I'm at I f design. but there where I had a global sustainability, an impact. This has become a really hot topic, especially because architecture and interior architecture of two are nine disciplines in the design award. 00:07:29:07 - 00:08:00:24 Speaker 1 I'm curious, though, one of the things that I'm hearing as we talk about efficiency and health and comfort and all this is also like reduced carbon footprint and lower operational costs. And I'm curious at this stage in the game, why everyone isn't building passive house versions of new or rehabilitated construction if it saves money and is better for like both people and planet and pocketbooks. 00:08:01:01 - 00:08:24:10 Speaker 2 Yeah, no, I think that that has to do with a lot of like the issues in society at large where people have a hard time thinking long term and they, they focus on, on short term and sometimes maybe the, you know, it's it's easy to communicate well, it's it's hard to communicate actually the thermal comfort that you, that you get from building a passive house. 00:08:24:12 - 00:08:47:00 Speaker 2 but you can walk them with somebody through a space and they can feel it. They can notice the sound, the quietness. but then once you start getting into the technical side, I think for for people without experience in it, it can, be a little intimidating and it might raise some flags if they're not like they might be concerned about trapping moisture and masonry walls or things like that. 00:08:47:00 - 00:09:06:18 Speaker 2 And without having like a strong grasp on it to like, explain and dive into the details. It's something that I think intimidates sometimes, the person investing the money or the contractor, and then the whole, you know, long term thing is just something that sometimes people, you know, if they'll make their, their investment back, they'll recuperate their investment. 00:09:06:18 - 00:09:10:08 Speaker 2 They sometimes it's just, you know, cash flow, etc.. So things. 00:09:10:08 - 00:09:37:14 Speaker 3 Like that, depending on the ownership structure of the development, could have a big impact. It's helps to have somebody who's going to hold, hold the building, in one form or another. I would throw out there. I totally agree with all of that and that, the architects, along with the project people being a bit intimidated by, I think the architects are just, you know, overwhelmed, overworked, underpaid. 00:09:37:14 - 00:10:01:17 Speaker 3 And it's another constraint and it's another or perceived as another constraint. and so there's a bit of a hump to get over that. And, and what I like to I consider it the best victory when they, I see their eyes open to the fact that this is can actually empower architects to reclaim territory that, you know, over the decades, architects give away more and more power. 00:10:01:20 - 00:10:15:19 Speaker 3 They don't give it away, but it's been taken from them. And and this is a great way to reclaim a whole bunch of power in, in that project development. So it's possible. 00:10:15:21 - 00:10:41:07 Speaker 1 It's interesting. I mean, Luis, coming back to you, I mean, your professional experience is largely in project and construction management. I know that, the, the, the firm that you and your wife hold together, it's called, studio 397 because Samantha was the 397th accredited license. I guess we call in America African-American female architect in the United States. 00:10:41:07 - 00:11:12:13 Speaker 1 Ever. one of the others, Pascale Sablan has been on this program and is an I f design award juror, so I know about that. but I love, the studio 397. But you guys are a multidisciplinary studio. But as you said, you do a lot of interiors, but as construction management manager throughout your career, not only obviously, at the firm that you guys, own together now, you've kind of seen passive House grow and evolve, but you also recognize where the barriers are. 00:11:12:13 - 00:11:27:24 Speaker 1 I imagine, in selling it to a client, not on the design side, but on the actualization side. of the key elements of passive house design and construction. Are there ones that are easier or harder to achieve? and why? 00:11:28:01 - 00:12:01:17 Speaker 2 Well, I think, for example, things like air tight, construction and continuous insulation, removing thermal bridges, etc. you can see the difference when you're working with a contractor who has that experience. We had a project that was a renovation for, residential project in Pennsylvania, and we worked with a firm that, has certified installers. you know, a lot of the their focus is on passive House, so they know the, their, you know, staff is trained on, on how to execute details. 00:12:01:19 - 00:12:23:11 Speaker 2 They have some suggestions. that project in particular was during, you know, right after the pandemic. So there were some issues with supply chain. So they knew how to substitute things and what to pay attention to for, for the products to work well together so that, because in theory, it sounds, you know, you can discuss it and, and achieved a design for continuous insulation or air tight construction. 00:12:23:11 - 00:12:48:16 Speaker 2 But if the people executing it are not, either excited about it or, you know, committed to it or properly trained in it, then it's it's not going to work too well. So that was my experience. And before, you know, other projects where, they weren't aiming for those principles. I saw the same problems with, you know, just the quality of, of, of the training. 00:12:48:16 - 00:12:51:12 Speaker 2 I think that's a big thing to focus on. 00:12:51:14 - 00:13:15:10 Speaker 1 Yeah. And and can you, when you kind of, I’ll call it, you got you awakened to the climate crisis and became, aware of passive House and started joining boards and things like this. But when you started your firm, if I'm not mistaken, at some point, you co-founded, Building Supply Company called four, seven five. 00:13:15:10 - 00:13:44:06 Speaker 1 I don't know what's up with your guys numbers, but four seven, five high Performance building supply, which really was on a mission to supply materials, building components and knowledge to drive industry change. Is is that still. I think you did that in 2011. We're now a few years after that. do you think to Luis's point like that what the biggest gaps in the knowledge are, the knowledge base or the availability of systems and materials, or what what is blocking this? 00:13:44:08 - 00:14:11:07 Speaker 3 I think much of the gaps are, have tightened substantially. Like, I don't think there's a big excuse in terms of the supply chain or the knowledge. It's if you don't have it, it's available. and it's becoming more and more available every day. and, and the marketplace back in the day in 2011, there were a few window suppliers to the United States for passive house compatible components. 00:14:11:13 - 00:14:41:17 Speaker 3 Today, there are dozens and there are many being manufactured in the United States as as one example, I think the real the big hiccup in, you know, kind of tying back to the question of why isn't everybody doing this, is, you know, it costs a little bit more money. It's high quality construction. You can optimize it and get it down to parity, but you have to be pretty special about how you're tackling it. 00:14:41:19 - 00:15:14:08 Speaker 3 I like to tell a story. There's a, Belgian architect, Sebastian Moreno Vaca, who, you know, really was responsible for popularizing passive House in many ways in Brussels. And took Brussels to essentially mandate passive House over a ten year period. he jokes that he would, you know, bring in his projects under 10%, under typical projects. and so we know that you could it was a serious joke, by the way. 00:15:14:10 - 00:15:41:08 Speaker 3 and, he, and so it shows that we can close those gaps. We can make it work in Massachusetts, in New York, where they've incentivized, excuse me, affordable housing for passive House and some market rate. those incentives essentially closed the gap. And in many places, like, the developers could either do a passive house or not do a passive house. 00:15:41:10 - 00:16:04:15 Speaker 3 and, you know, for the same financial risk upfront. Wow. Why anybody would not do one at that point? I think it's really just inertia and habit and familiarity. They see it as risky because, you know, construction is the most kind of conservative environment that we work in. And where everybody wants to do what they sold yesterday. 00:16:04:17 - 00:16:28:06 Speaker 1 unfortunately, it's also one of the most carbon intensive, yes, globally. So, I mean, that's unfortunate. Yeah. I'm curious. We keep talk, we're dancing around something that I think is meaningful in that both the present and the future of passive House, which is, of course, the accreditation or the certification because there are so many different kinds of certifications around the world. 00:16:28:11 - 00:16:57:14 Speaker 1 We look at it if, on the sustainability topic, but it's my understanding that passive House was passive House, which is an institute in Germany. there's stablish the standard that is kind of organizations around the world still use to certify buildings. Is that accurate? When was that created? And and what's this system in North America? and which is more widely kind of utilized? 00:16:57:16 - 00:17:04:20 Speaker 2 can maybe you take that one. I can talk about my, my journey in it and my connection to to Ken and passive House network. But I'll yeah. 00:17:04:20 - 00:17:53:20 Speaker 3 I'll give you a quick overview and hand it back to you, Luis, so, yeah, PHI developed the passive house standards. Global standards. and out in the early 1990s and is really, part of a global approach to low energy building around the world China, Australia, Spain, and in the US, where passive House Institute also certifies and we're affiliated with the passive institute, in an international framework, there's also organization called PHIUS that has a parallel certification and platform that derived from grew out of the work with the passive House Institute in Germany. 00:17:53:22 - 00:18:22:18 Speaker 3 And so they offer a similar set of metrics, to certify to. But it's independent of the institute in Germany. So in many of the locations, you can certify one to another where you may need it for incentives or code or something like that. but generally you don't need to certify it. If you build a something that performs to passive house levels, it's a passive house, whether it's certified or not. 00:18:22:20 - 00:18:33:22 Speaker 3 The certification, though, is critical in kind of closing that performance gap, making sure that you get what you paid for and what's expected. 00:18:33:24 - 00:19:02:10 Speaker 1 So interesting. Luis, let's talk about, project. it's really cool. Your firm, in partnership with Gensler, won, an iF Design award, in 2025 this year for Turner Construction's, global headquarters and new New York City office at Hudson Yards. Turner construction, of course, is the US's largest construction company. and I think number one green contractor. 00:19:02:10 - 00:19:32:19 Speaker 1 If I'm not mistaken. So it was a collaboration for their work space interior. And you won an iF Design award for interior architecture. in the winning projects statement, which I took the liberty of looking up just for the purpose of this conversation, it was said that the project is a transformative workspace designed to embody innovation, sustainability, and the future of construction, that it isn't just a work place, but a catalyst for innovation and a beacon for the future of the construction industry. 00:19:32:21 - 00:19:45:22 Speaker 1 I'm curious what that means, but also, were any passive house principles used here? I know you mentioned that you guys just handle you know, the interior, so perhaps not, but talk to us a little bit about that. 00:19:45:24 - 00:20:05:14 Speaker 2 Sure. I think, well, you know, one sort of passive house principle that I think was, was incorporated. I don't think it was done in the same way that it's usually done through passive House, because it was more on the mechanical systems than on the architecture itself. But Thermal comfort was something we paid a lot of attention to. 00:20:05:16 - 00:20:38:20 Speaker 2 this project went after Leed platinum, well, platinum and core or certification. So it was a lot of certifications, a lot of, meeting certain requirements. And I think, that's something that, you know, it's definitely great. It helps a project, you know, when you focus on things like Leed requires the wood in the project to be FSC certified and, well, might require them a certain percentage of the materials to be sourced from within a certain distance from the, from the site. 00:20:38:22 - 00:21:13:20 Speaker 2 So all those type of certifications are great, but again, they're more focused on the interiors. but one thing that did resemble the feeling that you get from being in a passive house, building is a thermal comfort. And that was very important for Turner as their, you know, they were thinking about how do we get people back into the office, how do we get people excited about coming back into to the to this to the, you know, leave their homes and having high, you know, really good air quality, really great thermal comfort is one of those things which is something that passive House, there's that kind of overlap with it. 00:21:13:22 - 00:21:21:20 Speaker 1 And thermal thermal comfort, just for listeners who might not understand, we're talking about like the temperature as well as airflow. Is that correct? 00:21:21:22 - 00:21:34:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. And you know, like you don't go by a window and it feels cold and then you're inside and you're too hot and you don't touch a surface and it's cold. Everything feels, you know, consistent and comfortable. Yeah. 00:21:34:17 - 00:22:03:06 Speaker 1 it's pretty, pretty nice. Ken, coming back to you, I think no, no offense, but the most interesting moment in your bio, is in 2019. so this is right before the pandemic, right before George Floyd in the U.S., right before a whole bunch of things that, probably made all of everything climate related and social anxiety related even more profound. 00:22:03:06 - 00:22:28:14 Speaker 1 You kind of like, throw up your hands, you close your firm, you closed 475 high performance building. You stepped down from all your board seats, including at phn, and you joined, as a volunteer with Extinction Rebellion, which of course, is, direct civil disobedience, action oriented, grassroots global organization and to basically insist that governments take climate change seriously. 00:22:28:16 - 00:22:44:02 Speaker 1 is there an intersection here between the climate crisis and passive House network, where you then returned in 2020 as the organization's first ED and still serve? what did you learn during that experience that you've carried forward with you? 00:22:44:04 - 00:23:08:18 Speaker 3 Yeah. no, definitely a big intersection, I should say. I didn't shut down 475. It's very much alive and growing and, well, many employees. I did step back from day to day management and, step back from a couple of the the passive house group boards that I was on. one of which was the passive house network or what would become the passive house network. 00:23:08:20 - 00:23:37:14 Speaker 3 and, so, yeah, like my coming to, passive House in the first place was really, honestly, from a point of climate panic and not believing whether my work was hurting or helping or, you know, how it was contributing and seeing a clear connection of the dots with passive House. And then the 475 high performance building supply was a way to implement it, really, and extend it. 00:23:37:14 - 00:24:00:10 Speaker 3 And we started these nonprofits at that point. And really we had to to build the market, educate and connect people very much all climate oriented. The thing was, and it goes back to me becoming an architect, doing my first architecture passive house project. I was coming at it from climate passion and carbon emissions and and efficiency and reducing it. 00:24:00:12 - 00:24:28:10 Speaker 3 The clients were coming at it from the health of their kids and the resilience and the quietness of the space. the climate, the the indoor air quality and the comfort and so it was a little disorienting, right. but at the same time, it was liberating because everybody didn't have to carry around the same baggage. And and so we come to it with what each has. 00:24:28:10 - 00:24:48:10 Speaker 3 And passive House really is kind of like a Swiss Army knife in that way. It can it can address a whole bunch of different problems from a really simple basis of, of strategy. and so it all goes back to the climate, certainly. And yeah, all part of it. 00:24:48:12 - 00:25:16:23 Speaker 1 It's interesting. I think one of the things, that always comes up for me whenever, I speak with architects or interior designers or landscape architects, especially in the U.S., but globally is the incredible amount of education and continuing education that is required. as this movement, accreditation, philosophy grows, how are upcoming designers as well as others within the industry? 00:25:16:23 - 00:25:38:05 Speaker 1 I mean, we're talking about energy analysts and regulators and policy makers and and consumers to some degree, right, as well as developers, etc. becoming educated on passive house principles, and more like how how are we raising this next generation as well as the current working one. 00:25:38:07 - 00:26:04:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm, I think Ken is part of that solution. I the way I met Ken was through passive House network and I applied for a fellowship to, have them, you know, sponsor me basically for, certified passive house designer. So it was something that I was interested in. but, you know, knowing the type of projects that we had and things like that, I then it was an investment that I think I was hesitant to make. 00:26:04:09 - 00:26:28:08 Speaker 2 And so knowing that there was a fellowship out there available, I applied and, and, you know, it was a great experience and it was, you know, really, great resources and, and structure of the course. And then part of the fellowship was that, I had, you know, a connection with, with Ken and, you know, we've grabbed a few beers a couple of times and, you know, just developed that relationship and, and stayed in touch for, for years now. 00:26:28:08 - 00:26:44:01 Speaker 2 So I think that's one example of, you know, one way to get in the field is to become certified as, either a, as a designer or, the other, certifications, are more related to installation correct, Ken? 00:26:44:01 - 00:26:44:20 Speaker 3 Okay. Yeah. 00:26:44:22 - 00:26:47:03 Speaker 2 Construction. 00:26:47:05 - 00:27:13:09 Speaker 3 Yeah. I mean, I would add and say, you know, it is great having Luis in the, in the program and in the fellowship and just trying to have as many on ramps as possible for people to connect with passive House. The one thing that we definitely say is the the strength is in the peer to peer knowledge sharing, because at least up to this point, generally speaking, everybody who's coming to it is, is, is to one extent or another, pretty mission driven. 00:27:13:09 - 00:27:26:20 Speaker 3 It's not like they were told that they have to go do this. and so there's the realization that if everybody doesn't succeed, the nobody's going to succeed because it's a like an all or nothing kind of game, right? With the client. 00:27:26:21 - 00:27:28:04 Speaker 1 Community. 00:27:28:06 - 00:27:49:22 Speaker 3 Yeah. So the community is everything and a bunch of interesting things briefly. So there's this wonderful woman in show and her husband, Tim Shields in Brooklyn, who do this passive House for everyone program. They bring workshops into elementary schools and middle schools, high school. They're doing a big thing at the boys and girls high school in Brooklyn, in Bed-Stuy. 00:27:49:22 - 00:28:15:00 Speaker 3 And, and then we have CPHD courses going into colleges so that students can come out of college, and be ready for certification and have that credential. so people are coming at it from a number of different ways. I think that the challenges that we are, just scratching the surface when people get involved, they're saying, oh, I'm so late. 00:28:15:00 - 00:28:35:22 Speaker 3 I'm like, no, you're on like day two maybe. it's like nobody still knows about passive House and that public awareness is kind of like I joke. It's like, if we get some money, I'll just put some ads on NPR, you know, it's like, I don't know, but it's kind of at this point is still one firm at a time. 00:28:35:24 - 00:28:45:09 Speaker 3 I think it's the state and local and utility incentives that are huge drivers, to broaden it. And, and, and we'll get there. 00:28:45:09 - 00:29:05:23 Speaker 1 So and are there I, I we're we're heading into the last question, but I often ask, are there like 1 or 2 iconic or really important references that people who want to learn more about passive House should visit or look at, or example projects? 00:29:06:00 - 00:29:33:05 Speaker 2 I actually saw in, monthly meeting for the passive House group or the regional passive House group. I they had a presentation about 475’s new office, and I found that really interesting. It was, because I see a lot of, effort in to people trying to use, mass timber and glue lamp, members in projects, but I was not aware of, you know, there's nailed, what's the term? 00:29:33:07 - 00:29:46:24 Speaker 2 Nail laminated timber. so you seen how that was used for the structure and, and that in that office? that was really exciting. So that's one, project, but I'm not as dialed in as Ken, so maybe there's some other ones. I. 00:29:47:04 - 00:30:19:11 Speaker 3 I wouldn't argue with that example. I would say I mean, really, I would go more democratic and say, we have passive House open days and they're global and, and across the US and different opportunities. to, to visit a passive house. And it doesn't need to be like the, the precedent setting of the first of this or that, to get. It is one of those kind of physical, emotional experiences, where you step into it and you're like, oh, yeah, I want this. 00:30:19:13 - 00:30:28:21 Speaker 1 It's interesting. And I would assume that passive House Institute, as you mentioned, in Germany, in Europe and China, also probably host similar things. 00:30:28:23 - 00:30:30:14 Speaker 3 Yeah, absolutely. It's all around the world. 00:30:30:20 - 00:30:52:21 Speaker 1 Definitely. So everyone listening, visit passive House Network or Passive House Institute to learn where you can visit. I love that or check out 475 Building Supplies own corporate office. So the last question as we wrap, gentlemen, as I and every episode of future of XYZ, what is your greatest hope for the future of passive House? 00:30:52:23 - 00:31:01:17 Speaker 1 passive houses in 2025 today. So 25 years in the future, 2050. 00:31:01:19 - 00:31:25:11 Speaker 2 Well, I think for me, just, for people, more people to know about it, more people to experience it. I think, like what Ken said, it is one of those things that it's it's like you don't really understand until you step into a space. It's like the first time you get a really, really good quality jacket and you've been wearing bad jackets for a while or boots or something, and you just it just feels different. 00:31:25:13 - 00:31:59:06 Speaker 2 and that's, you know, an immediate kind of quick, feeling that you get. But the long term benefits to your health and, and obviously to the environment are, are huge. So I think just for, for it to become, more widespread, for more people to know about it and, you know, being in New York City, I think for, certification for existing places that get renovated to be to become, more common, because for, for new construction, it should and it just makes sense for it to be applied to. 00:31:59:08 - 00:32:03:19 Speaker 2 But, for renovations, it's another option, especially for this market. 00:32:03:21 - 00:32:06:10 Speaker 1 I love that thank you. Luis. 00:32:06:12 - 00:32:27:09 Speaker 3 Yeah. And I'll just take it and push it a little bit further, a wee bit further and say, I think it will kind of be I mean, I want to believe it will be in our rearview mirror in a way that it will have been normalized. And we'll see this point in history where it kind of came over the hump, and it was this new thing that everybody talking about. 00:32:27:09 - 00:32:57:01 Speaker 3 And, and our kids, kids are going to be like, what what are you guys talking about? That's just the way our buildings are. Yeah. This is nothing new. because it is technically just simple building science. It's just rigorously applied. And anybody can do it. It can be normalized. Massachusetts is in the process of normalizing it. And, we just got to get over that hump. 00:32:57:03 - 00:33:11:13 Speaker 3 And as we one last pitch for its future, as we electrify, the way to protect the stability of the grid, stability of the grid is to really reduce those loads from buildings. 00:33:11:15 - 00:33:14:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. Especially peak hours, which is what buildings use. 00:33:14:16 - 00:33:21:14 Speaker 3 So an investment in buildings and passive houses and investment in stable power supply. 00:33:21:16 - 00:33:40:14 Speaker 1 with that, I have to thank you both. Ken Levenson, the executive director of the passive House network, and Luis Medina, principal at 397 studio 397 architecture, both Brooklyn New Yorkers. Thank you for joining us on, this episode of future of X, Y, Z. 00:33:40:16 - 00:33:41:19 Speaker 2 Thank you Lisa. 00:33:41:21 - 00:33:43:00 Speaker 3 Thank you, Lisa. 00:33:43:02 - 00:33:55:08 Speaker 1 And everyone, make sure that you like and follow. 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