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Diving Deep With Jillian · Numotion Ally Program Podcast

• Leah Holderbaum: It is To a special edition of the Ally Podcast. Ally is a peer-to-peer, coast-to-coast networking platform designed to share tips and experiences. I am Alexis. I'm with New Motion. And today we have Gillian. She is going to share out with us a really cool experience. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your story. Sure. Thanks, Alexis. I'm Gillian. I actually work for New Motion as well. I've been an employee in the finance department for eight, seven or eight years now. and actually work with the medical supply team. So we see a lot of each other and each other's names and emails. I became a customer of New Motion before I was an employee, actually. back in 2016, I was on vacation with my three best friends in Mexico. And on one of our last days there, I went outside to my balcony of my hotel room to make a phone call. And when I went to go sit on the balcony railing, I fell backwards and I lost my balance and fell three stories down to the ground below. I ended up breaking several vertebrae in my back, some ribs, but ultimately I sustained a T four complete spinal cord injury. So Two months of hospital rehab, PTOT intensive hospital stays. Later I was back in Connecticut and started my journey at home. discovering life in a wheelchair. Pretty early on, I was introduced to adaptive sports. My stay at Gillard Specialty Healthcare in Connecticut had a great therapeutic ret team and so they took us out and we were doing archery and hand cycling and trying to show us what was out there. As an outpatient, we did rock climbing clinics, mono ski days at the slopes, some water skiing. and I was up for trying all of it. I loved it. ⁓ I loved pushing my body, discovering what I was still capable of doing without the use of my legs. I love the community of people I met even more. ⁓ like I was never a big sports person before I got injured, but like I I would go to the gym, I would hike, but I was never ⁓ out like doing competitive stuff. so a year and a half later when I was doing half marathons in a hand cycle and rock climbing and doing all this crazy stuff. It was pretty crazy to see how much my I myself have changed since my injury. so fast forward several years, I decided to move out to Colorado. ⁓ I was out here a bunch visiting friends who'd moved out here over the years and ⁓ coming out for monoski camps, for this really cool adventure race where you're hiking and mountain biking, whitewater rafting, these unmarked trails. and I just fell in love with the mountains. To be honest, I really fell in love with Red Rocks and seeing concerts there. so the opportunity came to come out here actually for a work trip and I stayed a couple extra days and did some apartment shopping and decided a few months later I'd Decided where I wanted to live and moved out here full-time. And then I really wanted to become ingrained in the wheelchair spinal cord injury community because it was such a big part of my life back in Connecticut. And I was showing up to these archery nights that one of the guys in a wheelchair was setting up for us all. showing up to some ski clinics. And I participated in a women's wheelchair camp one summer. ⁓ and it was really cool. And a lot of the women there were talking about this organization that does adaptive scuba diving right in Denver. And that was something I've never even thought about doing. ⁓ but I came home and told my husband about it and he was so excited because he grew up scuba diving and he didn't think of it as an activity that the two of us can do together. But as soon as I told him about it, he started researching the organization. Unbeing honest to me, he reached out to them and ⁓ set up some time for us to talk and set me up for my first try scuba lesson in the pool. So did he have to find a an instructor or a dive center that was specifically inclusive? So this one ⁓ dive center in Denver, Colorado has an entire adaptive program. And it's called Denver Adaptive Divers. And it is one of the most well-run adaptive sports organizations I've ever participated in. and you have to meet with the whole medical team to talk about your diagnosis, how you handle stress under the like stressful situations, because when you're under the water, it's a pretty stressful time and it's not a good place to react poorly in panic. so they really put you through the ringer to make sure that you're this is something that you could handle. which made me feel so much more confident with the whole program and knowing that I've checked all the boxes and I know that I'm ready to be under the water. ⁓ I think there's other dive programs out there that do adaptive diving. ⁓ I don't know any of them off the top of my head, but I feel so lucky that I was able to participate in this one. ⁓ my goodness, that's amazing. ⁓ so I see you're outside in these reels, out in the wilderness of the Great Ocean. How did you make the transition from a dive center into the ocean? Do they take you there? Absolutely, yeah. So you start out in the pool, having lessons, working on your skills. so In Denver there's I think a ten foot pool, ten foot deep pool that they have where you work on just getting to know the equipment, getting your mask on and off under the water comfortably, using your BC and getting used to breathing that air. BC? what is a BC? So a BC is actually the vest that you wear that fills with air and then deflates to help you stay ⁓ neutrally buoyant in the water. So yeah, so you're in the pool, you're getting used to all that. And for me, I wasn't a big swimmer before I got injured. I haven't really spent any time in the pool since, but I really enjoyed being in the water and it was so freeing ⁓ just being completely out of my chair, using the same exact equipment as everybody else, just swimming around. My husband actually got me webbed gloves to make swimming a little easier. So like little Spider-Man hands. so as I'm swimming around, I can see it. They're helping me propel a little more since I'm obviously not able to use my feet. ⁓ my goodness, that is so cool. That was such an exciting dive. we I think we were doing a shipwreck that day. And before each dive, you're on the boat and you the dive guides go over a little map of the dive site you're gonna do, what fish you're gonna see. And for this one, there was a swim through, which is a little hole through the coral where you navigate your body through and come out to this big, beautiful blue ocean. ⁓ and the Captain of the boat was leading the dive that day, and he said, All right, you're welcome to try it. It's pretty narrow. You have to go down and then it comes up, so it might be a bit of a struggle, but you can go for it. And so I did. I swam down to it and it was kind of narrow, but I was able to make my way through. And it was a little more difficult for me using my hands versus somebody just kicking their feet. But it was so beautiful, and I was able to see like A lot of the ocean was covered in algae and the coral was covered in algae, but in this little pocket you could see some of the beautiful colors and it was so exciting. There were a bunch of other divers at the ⁓ top waiting and they were really amped for me. ⁓ and I was excited that I got to do it. That is so amazing. And where is this? This dive was in Cayman Brock, ⁓ which is a tiny little island in the Cayman Islands. ⁓ And there's one resort on it and our organization went down with seventy divers. ⁓ Seventy. Seventy people. And so we took we took up the whole resort. So it's just us for the whole week. we did four dives a day. so it was an exhausting trip, but it was one of my favorite things I've ever done. And were so you said your group was that the ⁓ the same dive center with ⁓ people with mobility related diff disabilities. Exactly. Yep. So there were probably twelve adaptive divers we went down with. ⁓ my goodness. there were some amputees. There was someone with a visual impairment. but mostly they were mobility related disabilities. ⁓ and so there are I must say like I said 12 adoptive divers, and then as part of this program, you can have a buddy become certified to dive with you. ⁓ so my husband, like I said, has already been diving since he was young. He had his advanced certification, but he wanted to be a diver with me so that the two of us can go out on our own and we could feel confident diving together and taking our own trips. So he was able to get his rescue certification. So had to take these stress and rescue classes and work on that. and then becoming a certified buddy diver, he had to learn a lot about different things that happen when you have a spinal cord injury. So how to tell if I'm having autonomic dysriflexia and how to deal with that and help me manage that. So that is when Your body is trying to communicate you that something below your injury is wrong. ⁓ it can be something as little as you have to go to the bathroom. So I'll get goosebumps and kind of the cold sweats and that's my cue. Or it can be something like you broke your foot and you don't realize it, but your body's response is to raise your blood pressure. and so you can get a really bad headache and you can end up having a stroke. if it doesn't get resolved. ⁓ so it's really important to be able to have your people who are taking care of you know those signs and what they need to do to help with that if it ever happens. ⁓ my goodness. And how how long do these dives last? ⁓ depending on how deep they go. ⁓ between our shortest one was about twenty five minutes and our longest one was about fifty. And then it takes you a long time to get out to the site. For this, these dives trips, the sites were maybe about twenty fifteen, twenty minutes from the dive shop. ⁓ so they're pretty quick boat rides. ⁓ especially since we were doing four a day, it wasn't too bad. ⁓ there was just a lot of beautiful sights along right along the coast. And then do you ever like i in my head, because I'm not a scuba diver, in my head, you go out for like four hours to somewhere that nobody else sees and then you dive deep. Do you ever do those kind of adventures? We haven't done that yet. no like a deep sea dive really. ⁓ these were all just along the coast, or I I think you can. I know there's like these sea safaris that some of the other people down there were talking about where they do bring you out into the middle of the ocean and they have ⁓ a bait ball, they call it. So like all these fish and It'll attract these shharks and like all these big fish to come and like feed off this ball while you're there diving around. How do you feel about that? Maybe I'd try it once. ⁓ But we didn't see too much crazy wildlife here. There were some beautiful turtles and all these rays. and we got to actually see this really cool shipwreck. ⁓ that We got to dive around and explore for a while. So that was exciting. ⁓ So can I ask you a personal question? Yes. Yeah. I'm in the medical supply field, as you might know. And w what do you do when you have to when it to not get autonomic dysriflexia on one of these beautiful dives, w what do you do when you have to go to the bathroom? So for me, I've never been great at cathing in my chair, let alone cathing in my chair. on a boat in the ocean with the waves going all over the place. So I was very religious about going to the bathroom and cathing immediately before I got on the boat in the morning. And we were back three to four hours after. So the first thing I did when I got off of the boat was go to the bathroom. I also know that my body I'm much more likely to leak than I am to get dysreflexic. ⁓ thank goodness. ⁓ so I wasn't too worried about having a super full bladder and having a s really bad headache and bl high blood pressure. but I was on the boat with a guy who was able to calf super easily between every dive. A little jealous of that. Right. but I did bring The catheters with bags attached just in case we got held up in the water for longer or I started feeling like I was dysroplexic. and there was a place where people would just hold a towel up in front of you so that you had some privacy from the fifteen other people on the boat. I guess that would be a very small environment to try and find a private place. Yeah. But it's amazing that your dive buddy, your husband, is ⁓ is with you. It must provide a lot of like security when you know that you at least have somebody who knows you and your body and your dysriflexia if you if you have it and is able to help out if necessary. Exactly. Yeah. And it was really good having time in the pool before going down to the islands and being in the open water because I got to be more comfortable with my dive instructor who was also there the entire time and my other dive buddy who was there with us until Jason got certified. And we got comfortable with each other, got to be very open, and that's just what you have to do and be able to communicate those things to the people you're diving with. But having Jason there was definitely so comforting. ⁓ On my first dive of the day, it didn't really go well. so I'll set the scene a little bit. We drove we got to the airport in Denver, I want to say like Wednesday morning or something, and then flew to Grand Cayman, didn't get off the plane while people were transferred, and then flew from there to Cayman Brock. ⁓ planes aren't the most accessible place. so I wasn't able to go to the bathroom on that six to eight hour trip. So to prepare for that, I didn't really drink anything that whole day. and the next day when we get on the boat, it was very hot. we're in the middle of the water, the sun's beating down on you. It's a stressful situation. It's a little nerve wracking, like you're gonna die for the first time. And I'm there, I've got a skin suit on. So this lycra suit that goes under my wetsuit just helps get the wetsuit on easier. ⁓ since I don't have the use of my legs kind of like wiggle around. so we're getting this wetsuit on, and it's not going well. It's so tough. ⁓ and it's just sticking to me, and I'm overheating and The organization was really great in that they extended the zippers on these dive suits for the adaptive divers to make them easier to put on and off. but I was struggling with it so much. So by the time I got the wetsuit on and zippered up, I just said get me in the water. I like I just gotta get cooled off. So kind of jumped in the water. And then I started we started our descent. And in scuba diving you need to equalize your ears. Okay. Like a plate. Yeah. Right? So you're gonna hold your nose. Hold your nose and blow out, right? And I was having so much trouble with it. And it's dangerous. Your eardrums can burst if there's too much pressure there. ⁓ and it's really painful. So I was trying to s stop my descent until I was able to clear them. But I was struggling. ⁓ and there was kind of water filling up in my mask. And so Jason was directly across from me and saw me panicking. And he came over, he grabbed my BC, squeezed my nose, and I was able to pop my ears, ⁓ and relieve that pressure. So it's that little thing where he's just comfortable enough to come in and grab me and make sure I can do what I need to do. ⁓ so starting off That way, having a little bit of panic, but having him there to diffuse anything was awesome. and the rest of the dive that morning went okay, but I was so dehydrated by the time I got back on the boat that I was seasick and I needed to throw up really bad. But the other guy, the other adaptive diver was already throwing up in the garbage peel next to me. So luckily it was a short ride to shore and getting on and off the boat every time there were like two people who would just lift up our chairs and put us on the dock. So I was first in line to get off the boat. And I just spent the rest of the afternoon drinking liquid IVs, taking some anti-nausea meds, and taking a nap. ⁓ my goodness. But the next day like Jason was kinda worried that I would want to give up after that because it wasn't a great first experience, but I just woke up more determined and say, okay, let's try this again. Let's make some adjustments. Instead of this really big wetsuit, the water's 85 degrees. So I just wore well one with like shorts and like short sleeves versus a super long one. and it was amazing. I didn't miss a single dive after that. So I ended up with 17 dives that I did that trip. ⁓ my goodness. Twelve hours out of the water. ⁓ my goodness. That is just amazing. Hey, I'm Dylan from Wheelin' with Dylan. And I'm Leah with the CAFCAST. If you're listening to this, you are already part of the conversation. But there's a lot more to explore inside New Motion Medical Supplies Ally program. And all our podcasts live there too. So if you want to catch past episodes or get the earliest access to new ones, that's where to go. And the podcast is really just one piece. Inside Ally, there's a full library of articles, webinars, and short videos focused on bladder health. Catheter use and building routines that work for you. It's also a great place to see how others are navigating things day to day. Real setups, real experiences, and things you might not always hear in a clinical setting. And a big part of that is the community forum. There are sub-forums for different experiences and stages of life. So whether you're just getting started or have been doing this for years, there's a space for you. You can ask questions, share what's worked for you. Or just read and see how others are handling similar situations. It's a really easy way to connect and not feel like you're figuring everything out all on your own. And it's simple to access. If you're a New Motion Medical Supplies customer, you can log in with your My New Motion account information and start exploring right away. It's completely free and everything's in one place at catheters.newMotion.com/slash ally. Head to the Ally program today and join the conversation. We'll see you there. What was your favorite like either like place or ⁓ marine life? What w what's something that like stuck out to you? The lobsters that I saw down there were I think they're like Caribbean lobsters or something. They're nothing like you've ever seen, right? I'm used to like Mayan lobsters. I grew up in New England and so nice bright red mood cook These guys had to be like four feet long. And they were all different colors of brown and beige and they had so many little tentacles. ⁓ so we started really searching, like once we got comfortable with diving, you're c just kind of down in the water, you're exploring all the marine life down there. So I was searching in all these little caverns and corals to look for whatever I could find, and I saw so many of these massive lobsters. And they're curious. And so Jason had camera where all these little fo videos are from, and he would stick his camera in to see what he could see under there. And in these video that he got, they're just tapping their camera, the camera with their antenna. 'Cause they're that's the way that they feel it. And it was fascinating. ⁓ my god, I love it. So I saw some beautiful turtles and these rays and the turtles were just floating along. It was stunning. ⁓ but our dive guides loved the little teeny tiny macro like flora and fauna. So they'd talked to us before we went down to the dive site about what they'll be looking for on this dive. And they spent so much of the time like sifting through the sand and looking for these little shrimps and slugs. And I was like, I want to see the big stuff. But by the end of the trip, I was like, ⁓ look, I saw a tiny little slug and ⁓ really started to appreciate all of the different little types of life down there. It was it was good to see. ⁓ my gosh. I absolutely I love it. I absolutely love it. So you're in the water, you're weightless. How is that experience? Like do you hold on to it emotionally? Do you hold on to it like physically? Like tell us what it feels like. Being under the water like that, ⁓ and just not having anything attached to me besides my air tank. ⁓ it feels so nice. And I'd spent a lot of time in the pool learning how to maintain that neutral buoyancy. So you're just floating along. You're not kind of swimming up and down, you're just going, ⁓ and t letting the water take you. Felt so nice. Everything else kind of disappears when you're down there. all the worries and different thoughts in your head just go away and you're just concentrating on what's around you, what's in front of you. You're just kind of only really hear yourself breathing. and it was really freeing, honestly. Just me able to kind of float around and explore on my own and not have to worry about accessibility down there to be honest. it was so exciting. I must be so freeing. I love it. I absolutely love it. So your husband and you go into dive. How is it different, like your experience, your equipment, ⁓ your ⁓ experience with having paraplegia and scuba diving versus his experience scuba diving. How is it the same or is it different? Very much similar, right? So we both have our wetsuits on. We've got our masks. We've got our air tanks, our BCs. I even have fins on. same as him. And obviously I'm not using my fins to propel me, but when we were in the pool practicing and learning how to s dive, my legs were sinking a lot more than the upper part of my body. So I was having to swim up a lot. So the fins are buoyant. So they help raise my legs and keep my body more in line. ⁓ other equipment that I have and he doesn't is a full body harness, ⁓ like a rock climbing harness. ⁓ and that's what I put over my wetsuit. And that's how I was getting from my chair to the edge of the boat and back on into the boat after I get out of the water. By like hoist or by people using By people. Okay. Yeah. So the boat crew was amazing and we've got a lot of really strong people there. So I would get all my equipment on, get my harness on and go to the edge of the boat. say one, two, three, and they'd lift me up by my shoulder and my legs, just place me on the edge of the boat. ⁓ we would strap up our BC, which is the same as any other diver on the boat. They'd sit at the edge, get handed all their equipment, put it on, and then they a lot of the time would kind of just lean forward and go into the water themselves. And for me I would just say three, two, one, ready, and they'd push me into the water. but once we're in the water, there's no difference in equipment or anything. when it's time for us to come up, we swim to the surface, we do our safety stop and I would just kinda lay on my back and be complete my B C would be inflated so I'd be floating. and I would just kind of back pedal f my way t back to the boat. ⁓ we'd take off my equipment and I'd hang on to the edge of the railing ⁓ of the ladder and then they would grab hold the top of my harness, lift me back onto the boat, and then I'd get back in my chair from there. Pretty easy, honestly. ⁓ I thought it'd be a lot more difficult. I feel like I've always seen when people are diving, they kinda like fall backwards off the side of the boat. ⁓ but this was a totally different setup for everybody. So it felt like I was just a part of doing what everybody else was doing. ⁓ I love it. It's good. I love it. That is so cool. And ⁓ so have you always done it with a a group like that? Have you done all of your dives with a group like that? Yeah. So this is my first dive trip that I've ever done. and so with seventy people down in this ⁓ for this dive trip, we had four different boats. Mm-hmm. So every day was the same group of people on my boat. get to know everybody, but we're not opposed to going out and exploring on our own. ⁓ but this organization is so great and they spend so much time Making sure the trip is accessible. ⁓ and if it's not totally accessible, they're there to help you figure it out. ⁓ they just took two female adaptive divers to the Philippines a couple of months ago. ⁓ explored all of that. there we're talking about doing a trip to Curacao next summer. Are you gonna go? Maybe, yeah. Yes. So we'll we're excited to Just keep exploring more parts of the world. ⁓ and probably our first several trips will be with this organization. ⁓ because it's one less thing to worry about, ⁓ figuring out all the accessibility part of it. Mm-hmm. But in the future I'm sure that we'll just keep exploring on our own. ⁓ my goodness, I love it. Gives me this entire interview has just given me goosebumps the whole time. I just I It's so fascinating and inspiring. I love it. ⁓ of all the places that this organization goes, are there any countries that are more accessible than others? Like I know that Barcelona is a very accessible c city. Do they sp target any ⁓ specific areas that are more accessible than others? I know that like Costa Rica, for example, is very wheelchair friendly. I heard from the ladies who did the trip a couple months ago that the Philippines wasn't super accessible, but the staff there was so willing to make it work and so helpful and happy to just do whatever they can. ⁓ and what I've found really just living life in a wheelchair for almost ten years now is accessibility makes things easy when you're by yourself. ⁓ but when you have a group of people around you, you can go anywhere really and make anything work. I think that that exactly is something that a lot of people need to hear is just have your people and get going. I love it. Yeah. ⁓ my goodness. So for dive operators and shops, do you have any advice for them to further their incluse ⁓ inclusiveness? Absolutely. I think so many people across the country would benefit from learning that this exists and learning that it's something you can do even if you have a spinal cord injury or other types of disabilities. what my Dive shop did a really good job doing was making sure their dive staff was really educated in all like the quirks of different disabilities. But there are a lot of programs out there, ⁓ like the official dive lessons that will teach ⁓ and have a full course load about adaptive diving and ⁓ being a buddy diver and knowing what you need to know to dive with somebody with a disability. So I think a lot of the education's out there, ⁓ it's just having the courage to step out and kind of forge a path to make these trips more accessible and inclusive for all the divers to experience. I love it. And I love your story. about how you just and excuse the cliche, dove in to all of the sports after your injury. If somebody is listening slash watching that has a new disability, what would you tell them? I would tell them that community is one of the most important things that you can establish once you're newly injured or disabled, having people around you who've been through this before is life changing. ⁓ they can teach you little tips and tricks, but it's also just knowing that you're not alone in this. ⁓ and for me, like I said, sports was a easy way to become a part of that community. a really low pressure way of just kind of showing up at a clinic and dabbling and kind of discovering what your body is capable of doing. having that social aspect, not being isolated is I don't know, it's the most important factor I think in success and leading a very full life post injury. So You moved to Denver because you loved us, obviously. you moved to Denver and I thought it struck me as very courageous that you just dove in ⁓ and went after these different pursuits of community. How how did you get motivated to do that? What was your spark? How did you find the courage to engage like that? So when I moved out to Denver, luckily I wasn't really alone. I had friends out here, so I wasn't just doing it by myself on my own. I had two friends from high school, two friends from college, so I was able to kind of get in with their groups just to have some sort of social standing to start with. and then through New Motion, I knew of some people in the Denver area. And I was able to reach out to them and they're the ones who told me about the archery clinic. ⁓ and so I showed up to archery. I knew of a CrossFit gym in Englewood that was owned by a person with a spinal cord injury. So I started showing up to that CrossFit gym. And to me, that wasn't a big deal because I used to work out all the time back in Connecticut. And here it was an even more inclusive place where I wasn't adapting these CrossFit workouts by myself. There was a whole group of people in chairs who in every single workout was adapted. And I was able to meet even more people there. So it was kind of low stakes things that I was showing up to. Mm-hmm. And it didn't feel so much as putting myself out into a scary situation. Mm-hmm. ⁓ plus this community is just so accepting and Roll I'm always happy to find other people with the same lifestyle and learn from them and about them. Mm-hmm. I love it. I love it. And it just it really speaks to you as a person that you took those steps. But I hope that this inspires others to start talking. Even if you're not a CrossFit person, even if you are not athletically inclined, the the biggest takeaway from what I just heard is just talk. Talk to somebody, find a community and get started. Absolutely, right? There's there's support groups at all the rehab hospitals for the most part. And there's advocacy groups that you can do if that's more your route and You don't want to get involved in sports. for me, that was just a really easy avenue of I'm not the most socially outgoing person in the world. So the sports aspect for me kind of like gave you something to do while you can also make friends in the process versus just going out there to meet new people. so it was little more comfortable for me in that situation. Yeah, just start talking. to people. There's groups on Facebook that I've learned so much from and even better when it's in person and you build that community in your hometown or wherever you're living right now. That's amazing. Do you do any other so you do CrossFit and you do scuba diving? Do you do any other sports? I haven't done CrossFit in a little while. Just the traffic getting to and from the gym. A little prohibited lately. But Monoskiing, mountain biking. Mm. Love some downhill moun ⁓ hand cycling. So I've gone out to Crested Butte a handful of times for some mountain bike camps and we go o out every s winter for skiing. ⁓ I love it there. Yeah. The mountains out here are just always calling my name. I love it. Me too. Right. I'm with you on that. So scuba diving. Has it had an impact on like your self image, your confidence, your independence, that type of thing? I was pretty confident before scuba and if I'm being honest, I have more confidence now post injury than I ever did in my early twenties before I was injured. and kinda every day helps me build some of that. every time I'm solving a problem or figuring out how to do something independently. It's a little boost. but my biggest boost on scuba diving was on the last dive where right beforehand the whole organizer of the trip was on our boat and he was telling me a story of another adaptive diver who been on a handful of trips and on his last trip figured out how to get back onto the boat by himself and he went from a certified diver, so like an adaptive diver, to a regular open water diver. No. So I took that as a challenge. And my husband and my instructor overheard it. And so before the dive, they're over on the back of the boat and I can hear ⁓ kind of scheming and figuring out how I want to get back they would Help me to make sure I can get back on the boat. And I just went over to them. I was like, hey, I know what you guys are talking about. I've been thinking about this all week. I know exactly how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do this, this, this, and this. And they're like, okay, fine. We'll shut up. So at the end of the dive, we got come up back to the surface. And I took off my BC on my own. I h was able to hand it up to the people on the boat and I swam over to the ladder. Mm-hmm. It took off my fins ⁓ and my mask and I was able to sit my butt on the bottom ring. And then I just bumped up ring by ring onto the ladder until it was onto the boat. Freaked the captain out so much. He'd never had anybody do this on his boat before. I bet. And then I Was on the boat, I scooted back to my chair, and then I think they were taking somebody else's gear off, and I just popped back into my chair and they turned around and were like, What the heck? I didn't even get to see it. so it was really sweet during the the award ceremony when everybody's getting all their certifications. My dive instructor presented me with my certified classified diver award. And then he ripped it up in front of everybody, very dramatic, and said that wasn't good enough for her. She became an open water diver. So he gave me a full open water diver. ⁓ my goodness. That's it was really sweet. It was fun. But that was a big confidence boost for me. ⁓ yeah. Just being able to do that little extra and be totally independent felt awesome. ⁓ my goodness. That's amazing. Well done. Congratulations. ⁓ my goodness. I love it. I love a challenge. so if there is somebody w watching, listening to this podcast that has a disability, what advice would you give them? If they're looking into scuba diving, of course. Mm-hmm. Disability-related scuba advice I have would have to be staying in tune with your body, right? And I guess that isn't just for somebody with a disability, but for me, that first dive when I was super dehydrated because I d didn't want to pee on the plane, that was really limiting to me. And Luckily I listened to my body and I didn't do the rest of the dives that day and I was able to recover. So I guess it'd have to be listen to your body. Right. I've always been an advocate for push yourself to the edge of your comfort level, but don't push your body to the point where it's gonna damage it. and it's not gonna be worth it for the amount of recovery you're gonna have to do. ⁓ Listen to your body communicate. ⁓ be so open with all of the people helping you in this situation. ⁓ it's not something you want to feel like something's wrong and but wanna tough it out and not admit that something's off. Communicate from the start the entire time. Make sure your comfort level is well known. And establish a good relationship between you and your buddy, you and your instructor. and make sure that you guys you're comfortable telling them, Hey, I've got I've really got to go to the bathroom, I've got AD, we have to go up. Don't like sacrifice yourself for staying down in the water and feeling bad for going up early, right? ⁓ Yeah, your body's the most important thing in this situation. Yeah, listen. That's amazing. Yes. So, Jillian, what is next in your journey in life in Scuba? Anything? My next journey, it's something never done before. really excited about, but we're gonna have a baby. I knew it! I knew it! I knew it! It may not should have said that. But yes. Right? So excited. I've got a little one due at the end of March. ⁓ my god, my face books just quadrupled. Yeah, whole new adventure. ⁓ my gosh. But I'm excited to keep trying to figure out and I just think of it as a whole new series of problems that we're gonna have to solve. I'm so excited. ⁓ we're so happy. and I already know a good community of people who've gone through this before. ⁓ and excited to just see where the next several months takes us. ⁓ my goodness, I'm so happy for you guys. Congratulations. And I hope that you take all of your own advice. I hope you reach out. I hope you gain community in that. I can be part of your community if you know you want. I'm here. I am so excited for you. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. So we'll have to have a pregnancy podcast or a new mom podcast. We'll have to see how it goes. Yeah. I would love to I would host that. Yeah. Well, thank you for being an inspiration today. Yeah. Thank you for your stories. Thank you for your insight. Thank you for your advice. We truly appreciate it. And I hope you all Enjoyed this podcast, and I hope you join us again on the Allied Podcast series. Thank you.