Latest / The Difficult Boss Podcast with Fexingo: Managing Up, Toxic Managers, and Workplace Survival / How to Manage a Boss Who Is Out of Their Depth
Transcript
- Lucas: You've probably had a boss who was clearly in over their head — promoted because they were great at something else, but now they're managing people and strategy they don't understand. Luna: It's surprisingly common. I've seen it happen when a top salesperson gets bumped to VP of Sales, and suddenly they're responsible for pipeline forecasting and team development. Lucas: Exactly. That's a classic case. I think of a woman named Sarah — she was the company's best closer, but as a VP she'd micromanage deals while ignoring quarterly planning. Her team was burning out. Luna: So what do you do when your boss is clueless in their role but not malicious? Lucas: First, assume they want to succeed. Most people don't wake up hoping to be bad at their job. The key is to offer help without making them feel attacked. For example, you can say, 'I've noticed you're really stretched on Q4 planning — I put together a draft timeline that might save you time.' Luna: That's smart. You're solving a problem they probably know they have. Lucas: Right. And you're framing it as a gift, not a critique. But if they're defensive, you might need external credibility. Bring in industry benchmarks, a competitor analysis, or a recommendation from a trusted consultant. Luna: Give me an example. Lucas: Say your boss from marketing keeps pushing unrealistic product deadlines. You can show them a simple Gantt chart comparing typical industry timelines for similar features. It's not you saying they're wrong — it's the data. Luna: Sometimes that still threatens them, though. Lucas: It can. So another tactic is to make it their idea. You seed a suggestion and let them run with it. For instance, 'I was reading about how some teams use sprint planning to reduce missed deadlines — just a thought.' A week later they might announce, 'Let's try sprint planning.' Luna: And you've just helped them look good. Lucas: Exactly. That's the art of managing up. And you know, this is exactly the kind of practical advice we try to offer on this show, and we keep it ad-free because we think that's better for you. Luna: Yeah, it's important that listeners get honest, actionable help without any sponsor pressure. If you find value in that, you can support the show at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It helps us keep doing this. Lucas: Absolutely. So back to the political side of incompetence — sometimes the boss is out of their depth but they cover it with politics and relationship management. Luna: The 'political operator' type. They're charming with senior leaders but can't execute. Lucas: Right. That's more dangerous because they'll throw you under the bus to protect their reputation. Your best defense is documentation. Every decision, every instruction, every changed priority — get it in writing. Luna: But what if they avoid email and always talk in person? Lucas: Send a follow-up email: 'Just to confirm our conversation, I'll proceed with X based on your direction. Please let me know if I misunderstood.' That creates a paper trail without being confrontational. Luna: It's like building a shield. Lucas: Exactly. And also build alliances horizontally. If your boss is politically skilled but incompetent, you want other stakeholders to know your work directly. That way, if your boss tries to blame you, you've got credibility elsewhere. Luna: Don't try to expose them, though. Lucas: Never. You're not going to win a political war against a political operator. Your goal is survival and visibility, not revenge. If the situation is truly toxic, you may need to consider leaving. Luna: So how do you know when it's time to move on? Lucas: When your efforts to manage up are costing you more energy than they're saving. If you're spending half your week covering for your boss's incompetence, and the trajectory isn't changing, your career will suffer. It's better to find a role where you can grow. Luna: And maybe vet the next boss more carefully. Lucas: Right. During interviews, ask questions like, 'What's the biggest challenge your team is facing?' and 'How do you typically make decisions?' You can often spot a boss out of their depth if they can't articulate a clear process. Luna: That's great advice. Let's recap quickly: first, assume good intent and offer help quietly. Second, use data to steer decisions. Third, document everything if your boss is political. Fourth, know when to leave. Lucas: And one more thing: sometimes the best way to manage an incompetent boss is to make them look competent. When you help them succeed, you create a loyal sponsor. But only if they're not actively harmful. Luna: That's the nuance. It's not a one-size-fits-all. Lucas: Exactly. And if you're stuck in a situation where your boss is out of their depth and unwilling to learn, remember that it's not your fault. You can only control your response. Luna: Well said. Thanks for listening, everyone.