Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #212: Is Tylenol Linked to Autism? & A Drug Ad Crackdown

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Episode #212: Is Tylenol Linked to Autism? & A Drug Ad Crackdown · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's Dr.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McKella.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Since Joel and I recorded this episode last week, there has been a major update on this topic we are discussing today.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: During a White House event on Monday, President Trump raised the alarm about the dramatic rise in the prevalence of autism.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: For the first time, a president stated that autism must be caused by something in the environment.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is a historic moment in our country.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: It shatters the long-standing theory that autism is created by genetics.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's no way to prevent it or to reverse it.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: But on Monday, Trump said the scientists have looked for over 20 years at the genetic cause and they've come up empty-handed.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he accurately stated that autism has multiple causes.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: He called out acetaminophen, specifically Tylenol, as a cause of autism.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: The FDA will immediately add warnings to Tylenol and other products that contain acetaminophin.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: The warning will let pregnant women know of a possible link between acetaminophen and autism.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Trump also called out the link between acetaminophen and ADHD.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the FDA is going to also advise physicians about these risks through physician notices.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: And a public service campaign is going to launch to inform families of the risks of consuming acetaminophen during pregnancy.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: The FDA has also approved Leucovorin as an autism treatment.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time a treatment has been approved by the government for autism.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Leucovorin is also known as folinic acid.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is a reduced and active form of folate.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: You've probably heard of folate, vitamin B9.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Two-thirds of autistic children showed improvements with this type of supplementation in a study.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that was actually brought up at this White House conference on Monday.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first recognized treatment, as I just stated.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is now covered by Medicare and Medicaid.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the administration is expecting private insurance companies to follow their lead.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: There are going to be more studies, they said, that are going to look at more causes of autism, and there will be more announcements to come.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: The NIH is launching the Autism Data Science Initiative.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's involving 13 teams of researchers who will study the multiple causes of autism.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Trump did already call out on Monday vaccines as well as the vaccine schedule.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we do expect to hear more on that front in the upcoming months.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: If this pans out the way that the administration is advertising, it will be a historic shift in medicine in America.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Monday was already a major breakthrough in helping families with autism finally be heard and finally get some support.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: This was the first time that the government admitted environmental causes.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time the government is recognizing that you can reverse autism.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time that they are saying that they're going to investigate every possible cause with no predetermined outcome.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time they've linked a medication and that they've linked vaccines publicly, saying without a doubt, these are causing autism.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first time that they've shared results so quickly and they haven't just buried their findings based on special interest groups, backdoor deals.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Joel and I are very optimistic about what might come next from this administration.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: But as always, we remain cautious.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Talk is cheap.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see how this actually unfolds.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: We are going to follow this story closely and keep you up to date as we know more.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Without further ado, let's celebrate a little bit and get on to this week's show.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So at our farm, we have a prohibition on buying advertising.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of our 10 core principles that we don't buy advertising because we want our success to be completely dependent on satisfied patrons who recommend us to people.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so our litmus test for are we doing, are we are we doing right are sales up or down?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if they're down, we don't assume we're not spending enough on advertising.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're assuming that our our service or product are slipping from where we'd like to see them.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so this never occurred to me until just this moment as we're describing this.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: If these drugs actually did do what they appear to do on the TV ad, people couldn't stop talking about it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they'd be telling their friends, they'd be they'd be buzzing, they'd be so look at me now! You know, it would be it would be uh uh an unbelievably um you know a social media frenzy uh from thousands and thousands of people who were suddenly uh healed.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels Podcast with yours truly, the farmer Joel Salatin, and the greatest sidekick in the world, uh Dr.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Cena McCullough, our favorite researcher who um reads scientific journals for fun.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: I like to read the comics.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: She reads scientific journals.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so here we are uh today with a couple of interesting things going on.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh one is this uh memorandum from Trump regarding for President Trump regarding uh drug ads and some new details on Tylenol.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Cena's uncovered some interesting stuff on both of these details.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so we'll talk about it as we go forward.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sina, what do you have?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so on September 9th, President Trump signed the presidential memorandum to address address, quote, misleading direct-to-consumer prescription drug advertisements.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've talked about this a lot on this program, the effect that these advertisements may or may not have on consumers.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: But this order instructs the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, which is of course Kennedy, to ensure, quote, transparency and accuracy in direct-to-consumer advertising.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that includes requiring greater disclosures of the potential side effects in television and other ads.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can only imagine, Joel, like is these advertisements that you watch on television already have side effects, side effects listed.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: How much of the air time is going to be taken up by listing all Yeah, that that's what I'm thinking.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, half of the ads are already uh this could this could kill you.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can um, you know, you can turn into some sort of a um you know, uh a troll or something.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to imagine that that the rest of that, what is it called, the black box or something?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um that the rest of that isn't already uh disclosed on there.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they'll just now they'll just have the in 30 in a 30-second ad, all they'll have time for is just the name of the thing, and then they'll just start reading the black box, I guess.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course, you know has something precipitated this?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this was part of um, you know, Kennedy's vision was he wanted these ads removed actually from um from direct to consumer access.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the White House has been reported as saying they are not going to outright, outright ban ads.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: What they are going for is the transparency and accuracy.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: They want fair and balanced ads, as they said, as Trump said on this memorandum.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so to achieve that, they want the consumer to be aware of the the negative consequences of the ads.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you think of these ads, you're seeing happy people.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to get you to relate to these people in the ads, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the people are like, oh, I had this problem and I took this drug, and now I'm living the best life ever, right?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's pretty much the playbook of these ads.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then they listen to the case.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're all they're all dance, dancing around singing the singing the cute little jingle, you know.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're playing with their grandkids.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: They're all Yeah, yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're kind of at the beginning, they're like sitting on the sidelines, and then by the end, they're like able to lift their grandkid again or chase him around the around the park, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the end, it always says, like, or almost always says, like, talk to your doctor, uh, you know, see if if this drug is right for you, you know.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so what they're saying is you get this kind of pretty picture of you can go from being in poor health to being like in great shape and reclaiming your life, but then at the very end, it's this short snippet of here's potential side effects.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel, sometimes the side effect is like increased suicidal tendency or you know, um tumors, or you know, so they're just saying that it needs to be more balanced, you know, that like don't just have the positives, come with the negatives.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, you know, that's an interesting because uh uh correct me if I'm wrong, I think in the EU they actually prohibit direct-to-consumer uh drug ads, don't they?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: In the EU?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Let me look that up.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I I I'm I'm pretty I'm pretty sure they do.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um, not not that we want to be like the EU, but uh my question to you then, or or as a from a practical standpoint, as you're looking at that, uh, and I'm buying you some time here, uh as a practical um matter, how in the world do you I don't know, do you um you you you can't demand balance, you just can't.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, by by what criteria uh are you going to demand that these people uh you know what are you gonna do?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the sick so the sick person in the ad um doesn't dance around as much.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's too much dancing there.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's too big a too big a positive of I mean, really?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh maybe it's they can only slow dance versus like doing the jive, like you know, right, right, right.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: They can only do the YMCA, you know, sitting, sitting though, Joel.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like standing.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's uh you know, the the whole the whole um you know government intervention in the system just it it never quits, you know, and it and it uh how in the world how in the world would they determine?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I can just imagine a whole agency, you know, a bunch of people sitting around a room looking at these ads, having to having to now approve the ads.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: Nope, that you know, you got to take the edge off of this.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, that guy can't he can't uh throw his leg that high in the air.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: He can only throw it, you know, 12 inches high.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: He can't throw it 24 inches high.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, can you imagine?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, and so according to his memorandum, he's saying that in 1962, Congress gave FDA the authority to regulate prescription drug advertising.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they the FDA has historically stipulated that a manufacturer, packer, or distributor must provide the public with material complete information that fairly balances both the benefits and the risk of the drug.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: But according to Trump, the FDA over time shifted those requirements by allowing drug companies to include less information, particularly in broadcast advertising, um, and drug manufacturer advertising has skyrocketed in recent decades.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure those two things are associated with each other.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: So he's saying that there needs to be fair balance and complete information for consumers and that the FDA has that authority.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, to your point, Joel, the European Union does um prohibit direct-to-consumer advertising for prescription medication.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: It does allow advertising for over-the-counter medication.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure exactly how they're going to implement this.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I do know that the administration has already sent cease and desist letters up to somewhere of upwards of like a hundred companies, and they're claiming that they are um selling um unlawfully these unapproved and misbranded drugs.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And these are particularly like weight loss and diabetes drugs.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure how they're gonna say that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, like, because for example, this also would then require the drug companies to disclose all the side effects.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'm and I'm not pinpointing and saying that this is actually happening, but there is the possibility the drug companies are not listing all of the potential side effects, even on like the product insert.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So now you're gonna have to rely on these drug companies to be forthcoming with every single potential side effect that they know of or that has been reported about that drug from a from consumers.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: If this sounds like I'm hoping is you know, it it sounds like one of those things that might be a low-hanging fruit when, oh, we did something about it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are complaining about drug overdoses and you know, people getting addicted to drugs.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we know in the Maha um assessment that that um that was already published that they talk about the over over-medicating children in particular.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So this might be a hey, we're we are doing something about it.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: How far it goes is yet to be seen.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: But there are people who are saying that one way this might actually make an impact is that if you curb the the um the advertisement for the pharma drugs on television, it is it potentially is a marketing hurdle for some of the largest drug makers.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it can threaten key revenue streams for media companies.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, uh what I'm saying is it may they may have to change their business models.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: The drug makers and the media companies may have to change a part of their business model.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, they'll what what they'll you know what they'll do, Cena, they'll uh they'll just divert all that ad money to um to uh country club memberships and Las Vegas getaways for doctors.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: So so so they'll you know they'll they'll just they'll target doctors to wine and dine doctors.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll I mean, you know, when you when you go to a when you go to a doctor, I mean I haven't been to a doctor forever, but um I know I've seen a lot of times the the little the little um notepads, the notepads that doctors write on, you know, whether it whatever, um prescriptions or to themselves or to their wives or whatever.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, these these folks, these these uh drug companies shower doctors' offices with all sorts of little you know, notebooks and and things with their letter head on top or their you know their um their logo on top uh anyway.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I and I know that there are kickbacks to doctors who you know recommend uh certain uh drugs.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, yeah, I mean that's and that's you would you know you would think you know you would think so at our farm we have a prohibition on buying advertising.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of our 10 core principles that we don't buy advertising because we want our success to be completely dependent on satisfied patrons who recommend us to people.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so our litmus test for are we doing are we are we doing right uh is is our sales up or down, and if they're down, we don't assume we're not spending enough on advertising, we're assuming that our our service or product are slipping from you know where we'd like to see them.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, and this never occurred to me until just this moment as we're describing this.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: If if these drugs actually did do what they appear to do on the TV ad, people couldn't stop talking about it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they'd be telling their friends, they'd be they'd be buzzing, they'd be so look at me now, you know.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: It would be it would be uh an unbelievably um you know a social media frenzy uh from thousands and thousands of people who were suddenly uh healed.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, and they would be posting videos of themselves looking like those people in the ads.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: They'd be parading down the street, right?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, you know, and and and that's that's not happening because why?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because nobody has that kind of reaction, it's never that dramatic, or B um, they feel worse.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, and I would it's so individualized, it could be all of the above, um, even in the same person, you know, over time.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to your point, it's true that you know in 2024, Joel, the TV broadcasters like ABC, NBC, Fox, they made over five billion dollars in advertising revenue from just pharmaceutical companies.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, pharma pays big money for their advertising, and you know, including digital TV, radio, print, um, point of care, which is what you were talking about with having pamphlets and stuff in the waiting rooms, exam rooms, on the pharmacy counters.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: They spent so pharma uh uh in the US, the total ad spending across all these channels was um over$30 billion in 2024.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's moving to digital, yeah.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: $30 billion.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, on TV media, it was it was around$5 billion, just over$1.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And digital is gaining market share here in 2024.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Digital alone was an upwards of$20 billion for pharma.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: So they they're really profiting the that that's an ad that's an ad that pops up on your on your YouTube and things like that.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they're really uh like so.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you think of mainstream media, for example, they're pulling in a lot of revenue from these pharma ads.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And even like ESPN, like for the sports, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're advertised a lot on those sports channels, you know.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's what I'm saying is like it they may they people are speculating that they may actually end up taking a hit on their budgets.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, Joel, I don't know that you and I would be so sad if it meant the demise of mainstream media.
• 20:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know, um uh I I've I've become as much as I've seen now behind the curtain, I've become so uh whatever, more more cynical about that that the that the real story is never the real story.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And can you imagine can you imagine Trump sitting around and this is complete speculation here, okay?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just I'm just uh what you said spurred in me that can you imagine Trump's group sitting around, how can we destroy the mainstream media?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see, how can we destroy the mainstream media?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, let's let's let's make it so difficult for drug companies to advertise them on that they just dry up from their from their revenue.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and so the directive is not for it, they're not actually thinking about healthy Americans, or it's not actually geared toward let's make Americans healthier.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's actually it's actually their um uh you know uh almost subliminal uh or or you know a subterfuge uh against mainstream media because you know Trump hates the mainstream media, and um and it would be a way to do it.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: It wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me if in the war room if that actually is part of the discussion.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I I totally I totally speculate and I apologize for complete uh no, it's an interesting tidbit.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some commentators are calling this um death of uh pharmaceutical companies and but particularly mainstream media, um, like death by transparency, you know, transparency and rulemaking from Trump.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So so it's possible.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, we'll it we have to wait it out and see what happens because you know, I I think that they'll probably big pharma will probably challenge it in court.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's some controversy that who wants to become the next Harvard, so don't sue.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but I think that this there's so much revenue behind this and impact that I bet something gets challenged in court.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see what happens, but surely if they if if this there's a potential to have a big shift, I don't really think that's going to happen.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it'll probably get tied up in some um in some in courts.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I'm not sure.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joel, this is kind of my bottom line for it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's say they do have to put all the side effects and some consumers are deterred from it.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then they go into their doctor.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, most people go into the Western doctor's offices, and the doctor now says, okay, this is your diagnosis, and here's your prescription.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And even if that patient pushes back and says, Well, I don't want that prescription, like I saw the ad for that, and there's 50 million side effects.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't want that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: What's the doctor gonna say in response?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: The doctor most likely hasn't been trained on any other alternative.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So the doctor's probably gonna say, Well, this is the best we can do for you is try to manage your symptoms with this medication.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like the doctor's not gonna say, Oh, not that you asked, there is this second option of this protocol that's more holistic and naturally based and could actually reverse this condition for you.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not gonna happen.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, most doctors will be taken aback at um at even being questioned.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean they're they're in the business of dispensing dispensing uh advice and uh and they've they've invested in all this um education, schooling, credentialing.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so who and it's it's their belief system.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Who who who are you to question me?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and and so it and sometimes I'm sure there are lots of doctors who don't want to just prescribe a medication for their patient, but that's what they've been trained to do.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so they might not have another option available.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes down to it, in my opinion, this might all be almost um a waste.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's more of a, hey, we're doing something, but in in practically speaking, is it gonna move the needle?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not sure it will, because like I said, what is the other option when you go into conventional doctors?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Unless somehow people start figuring out that there's you know alternative uh practitioners that they can see.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, you know, you know what's in what uh uh another just as I'm thinking through this with you, um a lot of the thing about the things about the ads on on TV, I'm I'm thinking of things like Ozempic, all right, you know, weight loss.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um most of the people that I see on the Ozympic ads are not morbidly obese.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're you know, they're husky, they're overweight, you know, they're kind of like me, but you're not going to your doctor saying, How can I how can I lose a hundred pounds?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they and and so um so it's almost like the TV ads make you dissatisfied with yourself even when there's no reason to be dissatisfied.
• 25:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, I'm not you know, I'm not I'm I'm not suggesting that um you know losing 20 pounds would be good for me.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it would, but but um at what point do you become dis sat so dissatisfied with yourself that you're looking for something?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh a lot of I think when I see these ads, um I feel like many of them are are addressing they're almost create creating dissatisfaction with yourself unnecessarily.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's so it's okay to have a couple extra pounds, you know.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh as Teresa said, we're getting ready for old age, you know, you got to build up a little bit of a little bit of ballast, you know.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: So when you go into old age, you got some reserve.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I hear your point though.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think some of them, especially the weight loss ones, um, I but I think that is also kind of an underpinning of our culture that we face that type of message in multiple avenues.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it is this continual message of you're just you're still not good enough.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not enough.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and so and that also, Joel, that so that harkens back to you know, childhood trauma.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of us came out of childhood not feeling good enough, and so we seek external validation and so forth, um, rather than being just content and filled with gratitude and joy.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um but that also what another thing that this type of marketing does that is pervasive in our culture through different channels, is it actually keeps you focused on yourself.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's more of a self-centered um direction that your day will move in, you know, and and it's hard to kind of break out of that if you really think of how our culture operates.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And as to your point, these ads are just one more reminder of that of you know, you're not good enough, keep working on yourself.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how long do we have to work on ourselves before we're good enough?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think there's a time and place for self-reflection, you know.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but not to be continually reminded in almost everywhere you look in our culture that it's all about you, and you know, keep spending more time and energy and focus on you.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can improve a lot, even in your mindset, if you start focusing some of your time on others and giving to others.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the the the the ultimate, I mean, from a biblical standpoint, the the ultimate uh uh flourishing is is when you serve others.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's the ultimate.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, so uh it feels good.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: There are few things, few things better than being told thank you by someone who's grateful for your you know for your giving of yourself for them.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing, and I know we I know you want to get on the tile and all, so I don't want to, but but this is such a such a such an interesting kind of um you know government intervention versus libertarian.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I'm torn in in the thing.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I I've uh my sense is free speech, you know, and and and that's of course, as you said, if there's a suit, that's exactly what'll be the the whole point will be this is this is free speech.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: We you know, these are these are um you know public airwaves that should be open to say you know what we want.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and so I have that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: But but but beyond that, it when you when you start peeling off the onion and you go back, how do we get here?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: How'd we get here?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: How do we get here?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: How'd we get here?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: You go all the way back, don't you, to the Flexner report.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I I mean it goes it, you know, uh when you think of pre-1900 and the medical schools were some, you know, some guru maybe using anything from homeopathy to uh to whatever good surgical techniques or whatever, and most medical programs grew up around some really successful uh a person who was practicing healing arts successfully to then once the once the Rockefellers and the the Flexner report started pushing the nose of the government into healthcare.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I mean you you you can't even say the word healthcare now and imagine healthcare that's completely private.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, we we we just it it's like oh man, you know, I can't wrap my head around it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: But uh but that that set us on this path that we're on.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um am I am I wrong to think so?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I think so because that was the birth of basically petroleum-based pharmaceuticals.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: The AMA, the AMA, all of that the licensed credential doctor, uh you know, which which the shunning of natural alternatives.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, uh-huh.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and then then once FDR came along and turned that into a uh you know, a uh a government, a federal government construct, Medicare, Medicaid, the the the the juggernaut just went, but but if you look at the um if you if you look at the beginnings of it, it's way, way, way, way back there.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so it shows how difficult it is, isn't it, to once you have you know a rotten onion, how how many peels you have to take off till you get to the original seed.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think in this case, this this is what's this is what's um I don't know, uh, you know, frustrating about all this for me.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm a very much a free speech guy, and uh so it bothers me to see another agency now all sitting around and monitoring, like you said, you know, you can't dance that much.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, that bothers me, you know, to have yet another another agency examining every word of a drug, you know, just in principle, that bothers me.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that we would have that.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're supposed to solve that.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: So in in an effort to solve what what the pendulum has swung so far over here to solve that problem, you know, then then you then you violate other things over here, uh, and the best thing is just not even have a pendulum.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same pattern that we call out on the show that the government created a problem and now they're trying to fix the problem, but they're actually potentially going to make it worse.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So and so if they want something like this, then I, you know, I would say if you really want balance, then we should take restrictions off homeopathic medicines, you know, herbal medicines, and you know, use of those, um, letting consumers choose which of these kinds of medications they want to pursue for themselves and their own family, and take the writings off advertising them, you know, like because because that would be more balanced than just saying, oh, let's just balance the existing problem of having more pharmaceutical drugs and over medication, right?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: So listing more side effects, if that's what this is going to come down to, these ads, if they're still gonna be there, and now we just have longer lists of side effects.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm saying.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I don't think that's really gonna move the needle.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't personally see that as a more fair and balanced approach.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: The balance would be let's provide them with the other options that are available in addition to this pharmaceutical medication.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: But once again, uh a natural medicine, our traditional medicine is being snubbed.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm ignorant.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ignorant, Cena.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: And like tell me why, tell me why there aren't homeopathic or or or you know uh um supplemental type things.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, there's there's there's supplements like balance of nature and and super beats and things like that.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh how do they but though those are those are more um like you know, whatever, food supplements.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um but what what about a more aggressive well, I mean, example, homeopathic, uh or or goodness, even I mean, red light therapy.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's there's other things.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: What is there some sort of regulatory framework that that keeps that from seeing the light of day?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so it's my understanding that in America, like homeopathic products and herbal remedies, they're not typically advertised for treating specific diseases like you see these pharmaceutical medications, because they're regulated as foods and not as drugs by the FDA.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they haven't undergone like the the requirements by the FDA that drugs would to kind of quote unquote prove safety and effectiveness for treating medical conditions.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So even though we all know that that approval process is just filled with loopholes and not very scientifically rigorous, you know.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: So supplements, um there's actually a dietary supplement health and education act in 1994 that um permits herbals and other supplements to claim um that they affect the structure and um or function of the body, but prohibits claiming to cure, mitigate, or treat a specific disease.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it could like support heart health, but it's not a treatment for heart health.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they have to have um a disclaimer saying that they're not evaluated by the FDA, they're not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, prevent any disease.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and FDA doesn't like pre-approve dietary supplements, they basically just monitor the marketplace and they can take action against manufacturers um that they think make these um unsubstantiated or false claims um after the products already being already been sold.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um so there's they're they're advertised, but they're not advertised like prescription drugs would be on like a prime TV.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and part of that's because they have a different playbook, like the structure of function claims.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, yeah, I'm thinking of something like, for example, black salve.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have I have run into more people that and I'm using a very generic black salve.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are numerous formulations, but are you familiar?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you oh yeah, I use black salve for like pulling splinters out, yeah, yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And well, and and and um skin cancer, um, carcinomas.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've had I mean breast cancer.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've I've run into people that that used it and it just sucked the tumor right out.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's un unbelievable.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I mean, and and that's just me personal contact with people who um uh you know, I've got a little uh jar of it here on my dresser, you know.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that it but but you never you never see that advertised on TV.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when I think a big problem is that the pharmaceuticals have a lot of money in their pockets, right?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Versus like herbals.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Herbal, herbal medicine doesn't usually have um a big margin of profit, they have thinner margins, um, they have higher standards, right?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: They have to have tighter claims, like I talked about.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so any making any kinds of claim is risky uh of getting like the FTC or the FDA on you, and they don't have the same um like big pockets, so they're not gonna be able to advertise, like they won't have the money, for example, to take up one of those TV spots.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: They can do more of like digital or retail over national television, right?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh, you know, even just purely from a monetary standpoint.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if if people it's kind of that catch 22 that why don't they have the big profit margins?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, run reason is because not enough people use the products.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you get it out there to be used?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, yeah.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that big conundrum.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure, sure.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a it's a but but but it but again, um I you know, I go back to the Flexner report which that changed the trajectory uh uh of medical advice in the country.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we've been on that, you know, if we say that that was a a Y in the road, and we took the wrong, you know, we took the wrong path, we've been on this wrong path a long, long time.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and and nibbling around the edges like this is, you know, maybe it'll help, but it uh chances are it it doesn't really get us where we need to go.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean we'll continue to follow the story and you know update if there's any changes, but really, I think to and to your point, the perception has changed.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: The perception of consumers has long been these are you know, these magic pills, like one and done.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to change your lifestyle or anything.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: You just take this pill and it's gonna do what that ad says or what your doctor had said about it.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And herbals are bad and dangerous, uh, as you're to your point, stemming from the Flexner report.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of moving pieces there, and it's not gonna be, oh, here's a memorandum that you have to list all side effects now.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like that's not gonna change the course, but you know, we'll see.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: We will optimistically follow the story and see if something shifts.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, you you'd be some sometimes it's surprising what um just a little bit of of public questioning can you to can do to people who are who are on the fence, who are yeah, it's it's the drip.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Drip, drip, you know, what what drip finally pushed you over?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and um it's this this is another this is another drip where at least at least they're not just be given not being given uh free reign.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and and there's a there's a drip here.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's a questioning drip, and that in and of itself may be beneficial.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now we need just social media.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know how long do we have?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we've got another uh uh 25 minutes.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, good, okay.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like, I'm not gonna have enough time.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, and and to your point there, now we need the social media platforms to stop censoring the natural medicine.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: That will help.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's absolutely but okay.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of I I've a mectarin and whatever, yeah.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, okay.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: But so speaking of increased transparency in side effects for prescription drugs and just drugs in general, one drug that may soon have another type of side effect added to its list is Tylenol.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the latest big story.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've ever opened a medicine cabinet in America, you've probably at one point or another been greeted with that familiar red box, which is Tylenol, the brand name for the active ingredient, acetaminofen.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Tylenol is the pain reliever that doctors said, Oh, yeah, this is fine.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can take it while you're pregnant.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that tidy little story is actually starting to get messy, Joel.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Multiple outlets are now reporting that the U.S.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Health Secretary, Robert Kennedy Jr., is preparing an HHS report suggesting a link between acetaminophen used during pregnancy and autism.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this is an assertion that has been long disputed by the medical societies, the manufacturer of acetaminophen, and the FDA.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is known that high doses of acetaminophen can cause damage to the liver.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is widely accepted, but now it is being tied to autism.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, why is he doing this?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, one in 1,000 children were diagnosed with autism in the early 1990s, and today that number has jumped to one in 31 children are now um diagnosed with autism.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm told that that's going to be one in 25 in the next in the next audit.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that is the estimate I heard as well.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I wanted to spell this myth from the beginning.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: This huge rise in cases of autism are not just because we have better diagnostics now or that we're looking for it more now.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: There are many studies that have teased out that confounding variable and they are still seeing this effect.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, regardless, the official stance has long been that the causes for autism are either unknown or they're just purely genetic.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so Kennedy is trying to get to the bottom of what is really causing autism.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: It appears that one of the causes may be identified as acetaminen consumption during pregnancy and actually even in the first um you know few months of life, which I'll get into.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joel, if this actually happens, if the HHS under Kennedy does release this report, this will be a huge deal.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: The company's liability and the public health implications.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Could be enormous.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And those who have been warning about acetaminophens, neurotoxic risk for decades will have been vindicated.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the market knows this.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: The company behind Tylenol now is um Kenvu or KenVuew, and it's already feeling the heat.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Their stocks have already plunged around 10% upon news of this pending report.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to take a little bit of time to go into like what is it?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: How how often is acetamine actually acetaminophen actually used?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And a little bit of how we got here.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we come to this realization that there um, in fact, most likely is this connection between acetaminophen and um autism, and then what we can do about it.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: So are you ready?
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: I am ready.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just say, I'll just uh affirm what you're saying about the debunking of well, we just we just didn't we just didn't have a good diagnosis years ago.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, you know, I'm a lot older than you are.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: When I was in elementary school, no nobody even came close to autism.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, nobody can't you didn't know anybody, there was nobody in school that was even.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was not even close.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: There was there was no such thing as a kid beating his head against a wall.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: It did not exist.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: It simply did not exist.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I from from day one when when the the naysayers have said, oh, we just we just didn't know what it was.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: That that's not true.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: In in 1900, you didn't have kids beating their heads against a wall.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: It did not exist.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and I'm not trying to be, you know, unsympathetic or condescending.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's just you know one of the you know one of the the the things that that uh that autism how it manifests itself it just it no, it wasn't here.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you're right.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it's not, and and we can get into this as well, but this is part of why we are beyond labels, is because autism is a label.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think this is part of the problem, is that um, and I am fully sympathetic because my oldest son was on the autism spectrum um and is now fully healed.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a lot of experience in this area and researched it a lot and had a lot of time to think about it.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we have labeled this condition as autism, and so just and it it is rising, just like other chronic and autoimmune conditions are rising.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I have come to the conclusion is that all of these labels um are really stopping us from finding out the root cause, and they all are they all have a similar root cause in that they are all built upon exposure to toxins.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: These are diseases that are caused by toxins, and we can get into um more of that at the end if you would like.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: But as our toxic exposure has increased and continues to increase, we're seeing the climbing rates of all of these conditions.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and there's a lot of evidence now to show increased toxicity in children's bodies that have autism, increase in oxidative stress, increase in oxidative damage, um, you know, free radicals of causing this oxidative damage, um, decreased level of antioxidants and glutathione, um, which is a master antioxidant in the body.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there's evidence to support what I'm saying here.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: And again, we can get into that, but let's first talk about um, you know, what is it, how often is it used, and how we got to this point.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: So acetamini is a fever reducer and a pain reliever.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is one of the most common active ingredients in US medicines and one of the most widely used drugs in the world, especially by pregnant women and children.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: An estimated 60% of pregnant women use acetaminophen for headaches or other pains or fever.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And about 20% of pregnant women use it for over 20 days at a time.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so where I'm setting up the picture for you here.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you can imagine, it's saying the majority of women are using acetaminophen during pregnancy, and some of them are using are using it for at least 20 days at a time.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, among the US adult population, about 25% of us, or one in four, use an acetaminophen containing medicine every single week.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: And many of us may not even realize it because it's hidden in different medications.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's more than 600 prescription and over-the-counter medicines that contain acetaminiphen.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: It can hide in cold and flu combos, cough medicine, allergy medicine, sleep aids.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: So think of DayQL, NyQuil, Robotessin, like Mucinix, Fastmax, Theraflu, Alka Cell surplus cold and sinus, excedrin, mydol, benadryl, um allergy sinus headaches, excedrin PM, Pseudafed.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the list goes on and on, but those are some rule name brands that you'll find in your local grocery store.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: All of those can say contain acetaminophen.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of people, that's why this is a big story, Joel.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's beyond just this connection to autism.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it a lot of people are consuming acetaminophen regularly and they don't even realize it.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's actually been around for a long time.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was acetaminophen was first synthesized in 1878.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the 1950s, it was marketed widely.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Tylenol itself was launched in 1950.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Did you say 1878?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: 1878.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: 1870.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's like right after the Civil War.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just trying to, you know, absolutely.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was a long time ago.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: And but you know, look, it was like I said, it wasn't marketed widely um until the 1950s.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Tylenol was actually launched in 1955, and that was after it received the FDA approval.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you know, the preclinical testing um was not very thorough.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and then in the night in 1960, it became available over the counter.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so by 1960, you don't you don't need a prescription for it.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can just walk to the drugstore and get it over the counter yourself.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in the 1980s, there was an autism spike.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And around the same time, this was when Tylenol began to be heavily used during pregnancy and infancy.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that is because if you remember, um, in the 1980s, aspirin was being shunned for use in children.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that was because aspirin had been connected to um Ray syndrome, which is that rare life-threatening condition that causes swelling in the liver and the brain.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, as a response, the CDC was cautioning medical professionals and parents about that link.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the U.S.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Surgeon General formally advised against aspirin for children with influenza and chickenpox.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Warning labels became mandatory by the FDA in 1986, and the medical community did begin recommending non-aspirin fever and pain reducers like acetaminophen.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that nudged people towards Tylenol.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: So by the 1980s, Tylenol was the top-selling pain reliever in the United States.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this was when we reportedly started seeing some spikes in autism.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, again, I want to make it clear that on this show, we are not saying that all autism is caused by acetaminophen.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: That is not what we're saying.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're saying there's an association here, but there are also other toxins that children and adults are exposed to uh already by the 1980s.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the number one linked toxin that is associated with autism based on peer-reviewed public uh published studies, peer-reviewed published scientific studies, the number one link to autism is vaccines.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: It is the toxins that have been allowed in the vaccines, like mercury, like lead, um, and and and um other adjuvants.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we can do a whole show on that if people want.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can put some links in the description, uh, but that is the number one associated um uh trigger.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what we're saying here is that another trigger is possibly acetaminophen, and we'll get into the why in just a moment.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we see this spike in autism in the 1980s.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in it wasn't until the early 2000s that some researchers and some practitioners began to theorize that the rise in Tylenol use might in fact be contributing to a surge in neurodevelopment problems.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this was the early 2000s.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: So now it's almost 25 years later, right?
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: This this is still being a still an ongoing debate, not much has been done about it.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: So by 2008, you have the appearance of the first peer-reviewed paper that was published that suggested this link between early acetaminophine exposure and neuropsychiatric disorders.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: In this study, the authors were trying to find out if acetaminophen use after children receive the MMR vaccine, that the that's the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine, was that associated with autism?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, Joel, this is a common practice nowadays that you bring your child in or your baby in for vaccines, and they may spike a fever, they may be in pain.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so the advice is to give them Tylenol.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so this study published in 2008, wanted to see does that um recommendation cause an increased risk of having some kind of neuropsychiatric disorder?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: The study found and seeing it, seeing I've got I've got it, I gotta just make sure that we're that we're walking our listeners through this and help people to realize that there is that that when the government approves a product, whether it's an herbicide, a pesticide, a vaccine, uh, uh a Tylenol, when the government approves a product, they never, ever, ever, can I say that again, ever use it in cocktail form.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: It it's only studied in singularity.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so what you're saying here, I mean, my lights are going off.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times you take your child, you know, you get a little baby vaccine and they have a fever, so then so then you go to Tylenol.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: But that is not the way any government study is ever, they're never testing it in in tandems, in pairings, in cocktails.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we could probably you could probably make a little jingle off of that.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the the the the government doesn't do pairings, you know, like wine and wine and cheese, you know.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the government doesn't do pairings, it only does singular.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so so we literally, we're literally in the dark here as to what following a vaccine with Tylenol does compared to a study that just looks at the vaccine and then just looks at the um acetametophene.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're missing the real world application of these medications.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the whole purpose of this uh 2008 study.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what the researchers found was a significant association between giving the acetaminophen and increase in neuropsychiatric disorders.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this was in children five years of age or less.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: Specifically, Joel, it reported a 20.9-fold risk of regressive autism.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: So regressive autism is when a child, after a period of like normal development, experiences a loss of previously acquired skills, particularly in language and social interactions.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so what this study reported was that the child, the these children were, as you would say, normal and healthy, developing normally.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then they received the vaccine followed by the acidaminophen, and they experienced a 20.9 fold risk of regressive autism.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now it's huge, it's huge, and it gets follow along with this with what I'm gonna say because it gets better.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Listen, I thought you were gonna say 20, but no, 20.9 fold times is 2000 percent, just yeah, for those of our listeners who are a little bit uh low slow on math, yeah.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and here's the thing the study was poo-pooed, it was pretty much shot down or ignored.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, so the I'm trying to make the case here, and I'm gonna keep going through the history here, but so for anyone who's shocked by this, or is starting to be like, oh, that's just that Kennedy, he's just pushing back because he doesn't like the pharmaceutical companies or whatever the case may be.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to show you that there's a pattern that already exists and it's in the scientific literature, and it's being largely ignored, or they're trying to debunk it.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you have a pattern, and let me continue so you see the pattern unfold.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that was 2008.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: In 2009, the FDA's own scientists expressed concern about acetaminophen being used routinely with vaccines, and that's because animal studies were hinting that if you did that, it could worsen the adverse reactions from the vaccines.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: This was the FDA's own scientist.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: Their concerns were also largely ignored.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, throughout the 2010s, study after study from around the world began reporting associations between moms consuming acetaminophen during pregnancy and autism, but also they began reporting associations with ADHD and other behavioral issues because of moms consuming acetaminophen during pregnancy.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: But those studies were also shot down or attacked.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then in late 2021, there was a coalition of 91 scientists and clinicians that published a consensus statement in Nature Reviews Ender Chronology urging caution with acetaminophil use during pregnancy.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists publicly opposed those warnings.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: They have insisted that Tylenol is safe during pregnancy and that it's one of the only painkillers that expected mothers should use.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, not surprisingly, they are heavily funded by pharmaceutical interests.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: So when those 91 scientists and practitioners warned that prenatal exposure could affect the baby's development, the organization's response was to dismiss it.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they use the argument that, oh, well, everybody is using Tylenol, so it has to be okay.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and what what's that organization?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: That is the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a major organization that makes recommendations for pregnant women.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that was in 2021.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's like the um it's like the OBGYN trade association.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that was in 2021.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, by 2022, more than 20 peer-reviewed studies were published that were reporting an association between maternal use of acetaminophen and increased rates of neurodevelopment diseases in their babies, like autism, uh, ADHD, as well as language delays, behavioral problems, and lower IQ.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, two quick examples.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: There was a 2018 systematic review and meta-analysis, and they found get this, a 30% higher relative risk of ADHD and about a 20% higher risk of autism spectrum disorder when the moms consumed acetaminophen during pregnancy.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: These are some big numbers.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: A 2019 study from Johns Hopkins, okay.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: Johns Hopkins, they reported newborns with higher cord blood markers of acetaminophine exposure, had higher odds of later being diagnosed with autism or ADHD, and there was a clear dose response pattern.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a mouthful.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tease that out just quickly.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: That means John Hopkins looked at the cord blood, and what we know is acetaminophen can cross the placenta into the baby.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's in the cord blood.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: And they saw that the baby so had higher exposure to the acetaminophen did have uh an increased risk of being diagnosed with autism or ADHD later, and the risk increased with the amount of acetaminophen that the mother consumed.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: It also makes a difference with the timing, but we'll get into that in a minute.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Joel, the list goes on and on.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: The latest one is that there's a 2025 review.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this was, I believe, August uh of this year.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this was actually a review that was conducted by an international team of scientists.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're talking about the School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, Harvard, UCLA, and other organizations that evaluated studies on prenatal acetaminiphine consumption consumption and you know, mother's consumption of acetaminophen and neurodevelopment outcomes.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to read to you that their conclusion.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm quoting this directly from their paper.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: Quote: our analysis supports evidence consistent with an association between acetaminophine exposure during pregnancy and increased incidence of NDDSs.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, so that means neurodevelopmental disorders like autism spectrum disorder and ADHD.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: Appropriate and immediate steps should be taken to advise pregnant women to limit acetaminophine consumption to protect their offspring's neurodevelopment.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that's why this has become an issue now.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is a 2025 review that just came out last month.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't just one school or organization, it was an international team of scientists that are saying immediate steps should be taken.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_00: There is a stronger association with exposure in the second and third trimester, it appears, and a stronger association with, as I said, increasing dose and frequency.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing: it's not just prenatal exposure either.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: There are other studies that are showing that if you give acetaminophil to infants and younger children, especially in the first one to two years of life, it might be just as harmful.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, in some studies, they're showing it could be more harmful to neurodevelopment.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: A recent review noted that there's higher risk of autism related to acetaminophil were observed when the drug was given to newborns who were undergoing circumcision, and the drug was given for pain or for fever.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the the risk was higher than what we see if the baby's exposed during pregnancy.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: This it's theorized that that might be the case because during pregnancy, the mother's metabolism might provide some protective buffering because her body can help clear out the drug.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas a newborn's immune system is just hit with the full brunt of acetaminophen side effects.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I know we give you a lot of information, but let me try to explain a little bit of the how is this possible that this is happening.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I can tell you nobody really knows, just like most things in science, we don't really know.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: But here's a couple theories.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: One is a more well-established theory, and that's pertaining to oxidative stress.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: So acetaminophen is metabolized partially in the liver, and it's through a pathway that produces a toxic intermediate.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that intermediate is called NAPQI.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is normally neutralized by glutathione.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: As I said, glutathione is your master antioxidant in your body.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: It combats oxidative stress and it helps your body get rid of toxins.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: When you take acetaminophen, then a portion of your glutathione is going to get used up in order to help safely break down that drug.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's why, if there's an overdose of acetaminophen, it can destroy the liver.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's all Also, why the standard ER treatment for Tylenol overdose is to give um NAC or N-acetylcysteine.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is a precursor that helps your body restore glutathione levels.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joel, let's say that you give a baby, uh, you have you have your baby have a back vaccine, and then you give the baby Tylenol.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: The acetaminophen can deplete or reduce the baby's glutathione levels, which can potentially hamper that baby's ability to detoxify even the ingredients that were in the vaccine, like aluminum or mercury preservatives.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: It also decreases the baby's ability to detoxify from other toxins that it could be dealing with at the same time, like let's say exposure to glyphosate or even smog, or if there's mold in the house.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: In that situation, acetaminophen could possibly worsen any oxidative stress or inflammation that might be occurring.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, in simple terms, the acetaminophen can turn what could be a manageable stress into a tipping point for some babies or some individuals whose ability to neutralize the toxins might be limited.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we know it doesn't just occur in the liver.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: Acetaminophin also gets metabolized in the brain and in the lungs.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that means it's also producing those metabolites, which could be toxic.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_00: And in animal models, acetaminophin exposure has been shown to increase oxidative stress in the brain of the developing baby and has been associated with neurodevelopmental deficits, including neuronal development impairment.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a possible mechanism.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to tell you quickly the other one because this may explain why autism affects boys about three to four times more frequently than girls.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been there's some research being done, uh particularly out of the University of Maryland, that indicates indicates that the male brain could be considerably more sensitive to the effects of acetaminophen than the female.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, acetaminophen is a known endocrine disruptor, and studies have shown that if you use acetaminophen for prolonged periods of time during pregnancy, it can actually reduce testosterone that's produced in the unborn baby's testicles.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this has been shown to lead to, for example, undescended testes in baby boys.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the worry is that if you disrupt the male hormonal environment while they're in utero, not only could they undergo urogenital abnormalities, but it can impact their development of their brain because testosterone influences the formation of male typical neural circuits.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: So testosterone is one of the uh mediators of the nerves and the circuitry, the pathways that are being laid down in the male brain.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: So some have even have, like I said, speculated that that spike in autism in the 1980s that started with Tylenol being heavily used during pregnancy, it disproportionately started to affect boys because of that mechanism.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: Girls also have a generally higher baseline of glutathione levels and different hormonal milieu.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: So they might be somewhat more protected from acetaminophen's impact.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, although girls certainly also do get autism, just not at the rates as boys.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: But that's pretty alarming to me that if you take uh the acetaminophen can actually disrupt hormonal levels, even in a developing baby.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's very concerning.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think that should be addressed like immediately by agencies.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, we should really tell the people, I'd rather have the people just make the decision.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_00: But they're already addressing this.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if they are, they need to address that aspect of it.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, before we run out of time, there's more there.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want to, if we have, if we have time, we want to talk about empathy.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: But in case we're not out of time, lawsuits are already in the works.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there's Tylenol autism lawsuits that have been exploding.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: By 2023, there were thousands of families across America that had filed suits alleging that prenatal acetaminiph exposure caused their child's autism or ADHD.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many cases they've been consolidated into a federal multi-district multi-district litigation in the U.S.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: district court for the for the Southern District in New York.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, there's more than 3,000 cases uh on docketed.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is the interesting part.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_00: The claims aren't against the manufacturers that made Tylenol, they're also against major retailers like Walmart, CVS, Walgreens, and Costco, because the plaintiffs are saying that those stores sold store brand, acetaminothin, and they market it, they marketed it as safe for use during pregnancy.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: There were no warning labels, so they misled consumers.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone in the chain, from the maker to the point of sale, assured pregnant women that Tylenol was safe.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So they're all now being sued by these families.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I think they're somewhat of a case here because I stumbled upon another piece of information that if it's true, Joel, this is very damaging.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So allegedly, there's um internal documents that were from a uh a legal brief in 2018, that these internal documents were uncovered that indicated that the makers have been aware of this of this science for some time.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the science that I told you today, that the makers have been aware of this, but they did not update the product label to reflect that current science in a warning.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the primary manufacturer of Tylenol allegedly acknowledged in this legal brief that Tylenol has never been shown to be safe for brain development when used during pregnancy or in childhood.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_00: That means nobody checked the neurodevelopment and the safety studies.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Instead, they marketed this product, and we all just assumed it was safe because the products were sold over the counter and the doctors and medical establishments recommended it.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: But allegedly that safety was not actually demonstrated.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, could you imagine, Joel?
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is so damning to the company and a wake-up call to all of us.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, stop just trusting what your doctor's saying or what these medical agencies are saying.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and stop just trusting the FDA.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, well, I mean, we're we're we're back to we're I mean, if if those internal memos exist, that um I mean you're you're younger than I am, but I don't know if you remember all the tobacco when the tobacco companies went down.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what really brought them down was the uncovering of internal knowledge about the tobacco cancer um link you know uh behind closed doors, publicly they were poo-pooing, debunking, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: But in but behind the close and that that kind of of um of in internal knowledge versus the public knowledge, public messaging, that's what eventually just turned it, just turned society against them.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you it's one thing to say, well, we didn't know, we didn't know, but man, when you uncover the internal documentation that you knew and you were telling people we didn't know, that people people we we don't we don't buy that.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you that that just that's when your that's when your house collapses.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm eager to see what happens.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna keep following this study, uh, this this story.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm eager to see what happens with the court cases, like you know, how as they move forward, what is unveiled with them.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the glyphosate court cases, and you know, we were learning more and more uh about the ins and outs of glyphosate and internal documents as the court cases progress.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious to see what happens with this one.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also curious to see if Kennedy really going to come out with this report.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as of today, it has not come out, so we will see um how that transpires.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But if nothing else, if none of that actually happens, at least it's shining light now on this.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So parents can become aware, educate themselves, help other parents to become educated as well, um, and look for alternatives.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, there are lots of alternatives for pain and fever reducers, like lots of alternatives.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if someone is interested in them, uh Green Med Info, you know, Say or G's uh website has an entire section on alternatives for you know fever and pain reducers.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll list just a couple here.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So one of them is breastfeeding.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Breastfeeding has actually been shown in studies to decrease fever.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh consuming yogurt with with probiotics can reduce the number of days of a fever.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh tepid sponging, making sure you're adequately hydrated and consume electrolytes, uh, consuming uh curcumin or turmeric.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then there's some natural uh natural uh herbals too, like there's a Japanese herbal medicine.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm probably gonna butcher this name, but it's like uh Mao To.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's Mao hyphen T O.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a combination of four herbs.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually studied and found to be as effective and sometimes more effective than modern antiviral medications and in shortening duration of fever and people with influenza.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's um vibricol, which is a homeopathic medicine.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a butterfly tea, uh, which has been shown in an aqueous leaf extract to treat fever and animal studies.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the list goes on and on.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'll put the link uh to that green med info page in the show description if anyone's interested in some alternatives.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, the point is even if even if it's presented by FDA manufacturers, doctors, medical associations as this is the only option that we have now, because you guys got rid of aspirin, right?
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like that that was the big that was their big claim.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, aspirin wasn't allowed, so this is our only option.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is not the truth.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of options that have been used for long time, centuries, even in some cases, that are safe and effective.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_02: So if these if these um drug companies knew the the the the the um whatever the the lie, we'll just say the lie that they publicly said, there will be zero uh public sympathy for them.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Just zero, zero.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh like like what what eventually developed to the to the tobacco companies, uh and and it essentially brought the tobacco companies to their knees.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it it brought them down.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I mean, at least, at least with cigarettes, it was my decision to smoke.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so those of us who are libertarians, uh, you know, uh, I'm not sure about all this because you know, you may you made the choice.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't I didn't choose to smoke, you chose to smoke, you know.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's one thing.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_02: But but when you start talking about moms and babies, uh, that's a whole nother roar.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh wow, uh that's a big deal.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Fascinating.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Zina, for uncovering this all for us.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And um yes, and we will we will watch this and keep folks up to date on how this transpires.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_02: But but the but the heat, you know, the heat that RFK Jr.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_02: is under, um, you know, in in his in his hearings and stuff, you know, where he says, I mean, he just keeps asking the the the the the Democrats basically that are that are uh excoriating him, um do you want to know the truth?
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you really want to know the truth?
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this this is the this is the refrain.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and the for those of us who are watching these things, it's pretty obvious to us, no, they don't want to know the truth.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_02: They want to go on on this blind this this blind trust of a of a system that is um uh questionable at best and evil at worst.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and as Kennedy has pointed out in some of these hearings, he he has called them some of them out directly on how much money they're getting from pharma companies.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there's also a like, oh, um, you know, kind of like don't slap the hand that feeds me, you know, uh mentality there.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't want that coming out either.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_00: These people who are in bed with big pharma, big food, big ag, they certainly don't want that coming out in the public because they want to get re-elected and hold those cushy positions.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we're out of time, Cena.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_02: So here's my here's my question.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, here's my question.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_02: What just we'll throw it out.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what have you used instead of Tylenol?
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know we've got a lot of you know thinking, intentional people in our audience.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_02: What have you used besides Tylenol and uh and describe the effectiveness of it?
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Give us a couple of testimonials on I used this and it was tremendous, or I used this and it didn't work, but then I tried to use this and it did work, you know, that sort of thing.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh give us give us a little bit of give us a little bit of affirmation that um that we don't all have to be addicted to Tylenol.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, everybody, thank you for joining us.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_02: This has been a this has been a really great one.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_02: And Cena, we're all indebted to you for keeping us on top of these of these issues.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we thank you for joining us on Beyond Labels, and we'll look forward to visiting with you again next week.