Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / Tucker Carlson, Derivatives, Airline Investing, and GE

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Tucker Carlson, Derivatives, Airline Investing, and GE · Bloomberg Intelligence

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
0:04
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller.
0:05
Speaker 2: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,
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Speaker 2: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moven news.
0:14
Speaker 1: I'm the Bloomberg Markets Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever
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Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast.
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Speaker 1: All right, here's a cool roundtable here. Yesterday was a
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Speaker 1: crazy day in the world of cable news. Don Lemon
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Speaker 1: from CNN gone, Tucker Carlson from Fox gone.
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Speaker 2: What does this mean for the business?
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Speaker 1: NBCUniversal Dave Yeah, Shell, mister Shell gone, So crazy day
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Speaker 1: in the world of media. What does it mean for
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Speaker 1: the politics as we head into the next election cycle?
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Speaker 1: What does it mean for the business? We have a
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Speaker 1: cool round table here. Wendy Schuller, Brown University professor. She
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Speaker 1: joins us here, as does Mark Douglas, CEO of Mountain
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Speaker 1: Let's start with you, Wendy. I mean, really, with the
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Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson thing, how does that impact the calculus I
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Speaker 1: guess of the messaging if nothing else, of the Republican
1:00
Speaker 1: and maybe Donald Trump and some of the others.
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Speaker 3: I think It's really interesting to see how the momentum
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Speaker 3: will shift or not shift. You know, we saw Fox
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Speaker 3: to really kind of almost virtually dump Donald Trump and
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Speaker 3: start really promoting Dusantis and Tucker Carlson sort of stuck
1:15
Speaker 3: with Trump in some ways, right, he wasn't really willing
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Speaker 3: to go there, and that was a mouthpiece for Trump.
1:20
Speaker 3: And now we see Dave Santis kind of endenduring some doubts,
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Speaker 3: maybe faltering a little bit, hasn't really hasn't jumped in yet,
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Speaker 3: and he's gone pretty far right on the social agenda,
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Speaker 3: which I think making some Republicans a little nervous about electability.
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Speaker 3: And so now what does Fox do. You've lost your
1:35
Speaker 3: mouthpiece for Trump. You were all in on Defantis, but
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Speaker 3: now you've got doubts. So I think this is really
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Speaker 3: important for the Publican party. They used Fox to consolidate
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Speaker 3: their message, put pressure on members in the Congress and
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Speaker 3: state legislature just to go along with whoever they decide
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Speaker 3: they want to anoint. And now it's unclear you know who's.
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Speaker 2: Going to be the anoint the yeah, And I mean
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Speaker 2: you're the expert on this. Mark Douglass over at Mountain
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Speaker 2: helps companies to drive, you know, marketing dollars and raise revenue,
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Speaker 2: but you focus on the politics, Wendy. So before I
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Speaker 2: get to Mark, you know, you teach the American Presidency
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Speaker 2: at Brown, Introduction to the American Political Process, Congress, and
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Speaker 2: public Policy. Does Tucker Carlson have a future in some
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Speaker 2: of those institutions that you're teaching about, because it seems
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Speaker 2: to me he has a huge following and he can
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Speaker 2: raise a lot of money, you know, with this sort
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Speaker 2: of angry base that he has, and it's like a
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Speaker 2: huge part of America.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're raising a fantastic point. He's I think I
2:36
Speaker 3: was fifty three years old and yesterday I said to
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Speaker 3: my students, you know, I've seen new gingrids come and
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Speaker 3: go and come and go and come and go, and
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Speaker 3: it's never really gone. And I have absolutely no doubt
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Speaker 3: that we will see Tucker Carlson again. The question is
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Speaker 3: does he become Steve Bannon to the next candidate? Does
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Speaker 3: he go work with Trump? You know, there are a
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Speaker 3: lot of things that we can see him re emerging
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Speaker 3: to you and I think, you know his demise would
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Speaker 3: be premature.
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Speaker 2: I mean, Senate, does he primary Trump? I feel like
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Speaker 2: there's a lot more that he could do than you know,
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Speaker 2: the eighty year old former president Mark Let me get
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Speaker 2: to you on the business side of things. Does this
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Speaker 2: hurt Fox at all? Tucker Carlson leaving, he has three
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Speaker 2: point four million viewers. Are they there for him or are
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Speaker 2: they there for the time slot?
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Speaker 4: Yeah? I think Tucker is a brand, and I think
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Speaker 4: we're going to learn very quickly that brands have a
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Speaker 4: lot of choices right now, and that Fox's brand is
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Speaker 4: not as strong. So if you look at someone that
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Speaker 4: the choices that someone like Tucker has is they can
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Speaker 4: go to other platforms. Daily Wire, you know, one that
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Speaker 4: their contracts was released. They offered Steven Crowder, who is
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Speaker 4: someone you may not even even heard of, has nowhere
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Speaker 4: near the following a Tucker Carlson. They are from fifty
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Speaker 4: million dollars to be on Daily Wire, and so the
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Speaker 4: numbers you look at the plus looking at Tucker to
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Speaker 4: get equity. I don't see Tucker becoming a political force
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Speaker 4: in the sense of he goes off and creates something.
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Speaker 4: I think there's huge media dollars out there for stars
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Speaker 4: like Tucker, and also the audience he has, he needs
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Speaker 4: to carry it someplace really soon. And I think you're
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Speaker 4: looking at a deal that's on a level with a
4:21
Speaker 4: Joe Rogan.
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Speaker 2: You know.
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Speaker 4: One of the other points on that is Tucker had
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Speaker 4: average three point three million viewers a day. Ben Shapiro
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Speaker 4: has eleven million a day, right, Joe Rogan has eleven
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Speaker 4: to twelve million a day. They have much much bigger
4:34
Speaker 4: audiences off of networks like Fox than they do on Fox.
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Speaker 4: And so I think Tucker is just going to go
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Speaker 4: where the money leads them. Their money's going to lead
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Speaker 4: them onto YouTube, on the podcast and where you're talking
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Speaker 4: fifty one hundred million dollar deals plus equity in the company.
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Speaker 2: But they're very different, right, I mean Joe Rogan, although
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Speaker 2: he's out there, he's more of your open minded draw
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Speaker 2: Ben Sjapiro, he's more of your sort of witty educated draw.
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Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson. He has the ability to spread wacko conspiracy theories,
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Speaker 2: spread fear, and spread hatred. Can you get someone else
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Speaker 2: that does that for Fox? The probably not?
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Speaker 4: I mean replacing the most highly rated show on news.
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Speaker 4: I mean it's a tall order. The advertisers they have
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Speaker 4: are not the premium advertisers because they if you look
5:28
Speaker 4: at Mountain, like we have a feature where you can
5:31
Speaker 4: just block their networks that you don't want to advertise
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Speaker 4: on on TV, and the number one block networks are CNN,
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Speaker 4: Box and MSNBC.
5:39
Speaker 5: So they don't.
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Speaker 4: Get the premium advertisers. So as long as they can
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Speaker 4: bill the number of viewers, they won't lose ad dollars.
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Speaker 4: But you know, matching Tucker in terms of nightly viewership,
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Speaker 4: that's not going to be easy. And there's not a
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Speaker 4: lot of There's not a lot of people to choose from.
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Speaker 4: It's not like Tucker was a huge star before he
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Speaker 4: arrived at Box for me, he was known to build
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Speaker 4: that Yeah, exactly.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Hey, Wendy, President Biden just announced his reelection. Any
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Speaker 1: what's your takeaway on that announcement and maybe more to
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Speaker 1: the point, how he announced it would just kind of
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Speaker 1: drop in a video.
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Speaker 3: Well, and you know, I guess it's really close to
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Speaker 3: her exactly the same day that he announced, you know,
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Speaker 3: four years ago, so I think there was some continuity there.
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Speaker 3: Two things. One is I think that it forces the Democrats,
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Speaker 3: now this is a big if to consolidate their messaging early.
6:28
Speaker 3: You know, he's running, he's the leader of the party.
6:31
Speaker 3: You know, you're going to run or lose on the
6:33
Speaker 3: success of the Biden administration, and that's going to force
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Speaker 3: the Democrats, with very tough Senate race looking in twenty
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Speaker 3: twenty four, to consolidate. And that's going to be, in
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Speaker 3: the end of the day, helpful for fundraising. In other words,
6:43
Speaker 3: we're all on the same team. We got a fundraise.
6:45
Speaker 3: Plus it's the beginning of a new fundraising quarter, so
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Speaker 3: you know, the numbers will look better for him at
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Speaker 3: the end of this quarter if he starts earlier. And
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Speaker 3: I just really think this is about consolidating because you
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Speaker 3: have to really take advantage of what looks to be disarray,
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Speaker 3: both in the Republican Party in terms they're not, but
7:00
Speaker 3: also in the messaging machine of the Republican Party. I
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Speaker 3: would circle back on Tucker though, you know, he's young
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Speaker 3: enough and he's come pretty close to the sort of
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Speaker 3: center of power, which is the White House. I would
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Speaker 3: not count him out. Maybe he makes a lot of
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Speaker 3: money in the interim, but I would not count him
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Speaker 3: out as running for a Senate seat in a safe
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Speaker 3: Republican state somewhere and then launching for president.
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Speaker 5: All right, interesting stuff.
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Speaker 1: It was a crazy day yesterday with all the news
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Speaker 1: coming out of the media space.
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Speaker 5: So it was a great, cool little round.
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Speaker 2: Dame, and then President Biden sneaks out, sneaks that little
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Speaker 2: re election video in the middle of a giant Fox
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Speaker 2: News Tucker Carlson, you know, media dates just unbelievable.
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Speaker 5: It is odd, odd odd makes for good news though.
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Speaker 1: Wendy Schillebrown University, Mark Douglas, CEO of Mountain joining us,
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Speaker 1: talking except talking us about the politics of cable television.
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Speaker 6: You're listening to the teenth Kenserline program Bloomberg Markets weekdays
7:50
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7:54
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7:57
Speaker 6: you get your podcast.
8:00
Speaker 1: We're just getting into the real teeth of this first
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Speaker 1: quarter earnings season. Want to get a sense of kind
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Speaker 1: of how some of the pros are approaching it. Randy Frederick,
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Speaker 1: Managing director of Trading Derivatives at de Schwab Center for
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Speaker 1: Financial Results, that joins us on the phone. Randy, again,
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Speaker 1: we're just starting to get into some of the meat
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Speaker 1: of this earning season.
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Speaker 2: Here.
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Speaker 1: We've already got the banks, and now we're starting to
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Speaker 1: get some of the industrials and consumer names. Any takeaways
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Speaker 1: you have here, what are you looking for, what are
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Speaker 1: some of your clients looking for?
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Speaker 5: How are you approaching it?
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Speaker 7: Well, to be quite honest with you, earning season so
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Speaker 7: far has actually been quite good. It's been better than expectations.
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Speaker 7: Now that may very well be simply because the bar
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Speaker 7: was set substantially lower, but it's actually been pretty good. Yes,
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Speaker 7: earnings per share growth is actually negative two point eight
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Speaker 7: percent so far, and we're about twenty four percent of
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Speaker 7: the way through the S and P five hundred at
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Speaker 7: this point. But the expectation was for to be down
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Speaker 7: about six and a half percent on a revenue basis
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Speaker 7: same thing. We're up about five point seven percent so far,
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Speaker 7: but the expectations was that we're that earnings would only
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Speaker 7: be up one point nine percent. So no matter how
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Speaker 7: you look at it, it's better than expected. And if
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Speaker 7: you look at the beat rates, in other words, how
9:07
Speaker 7: many companies did better on earnings or better on revenue,
9:10
Speaker 7: same story, You've got better percentages in both cases than
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Speaker 7: the prior quarter. So it's been pretty good so far,
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Speaker 7: and I think that's part of the reason why the
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Speaker 7: market has held up reasonably well.
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Speaker 2: I think Randy Matt Miller here in the studio. Listen,
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Speaker 2: you are expecting intraweek volatility because of all of these
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Speaker 2: these earnings, and we saw a slew of them today.
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Speaker 2: We're going to pick up tomorrow and then end the
9:34
Speaker 2: week with some macro data. But I wonder how you
9:39
Speaker 2: measure volatility, especially as the director managing director of trading derivatives.
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Speaker 2: Do you still look at the VIX? Are you excited
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Speaker 2: for VIX one D? Do you watch zero days two
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Speaker 2: expiry options? How does it pro like you measure volatility?
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Speaker 7: So the answer is yes, I still watch the VIX
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Speaker 7: a lot. The VIX has been around since ninety three,
10:01
Speaker 7: so it's got a very long track record. There are
10:03
Speaker 7: a number of other VIX related items that have been introduced,
10:08
Speaker 7: and VIX one D is just the most recent, and
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Speaker 7: it will be not necessarily a replacement for the VIX,
10:14
Speaker 7: but instead it will actually complement it. There are a
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Speaker 7: bunch of different volatility related indicators that have been out
10:20
Speaker 7: there for quite a while. And you know, I think
10:23
Speaker 7: that when people say, oh, the VIX is broken or
10:25
Speaker 7: the VIX isn't working right, what they're not realizing is
10:28
Speaker 7: the VIX isn't broken. It's doing what it was intended
10:30
Speaker 7: to do. The purpose of the VIX was to measure
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Speaker 7: volatility thirty days into the future, and so of course
10:36
Speaker 7: it doesn't necessarily reflect what's going on in the very
10:39
Speaker 7: very near term. That was never its intent. We have
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Speaker 7: a whole bunch of other gages. We've got the VIX
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Speaker 7: three months, We've got the VIN, the v I X,
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Speaker 7: the VIX nine day. All of these were introduced much
10:50
Speaker 7: later than the VIX to give people a look into
10:53
Speaker 7: parts of the market that they were not seeing from
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Speaker 7: the VIX. It doesn't mean the VIX isn't working. It's
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Speaker 7: just that people are looking for shorter term So frankly,
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Speaker 7: it's a logical move by the CBOE to introduce this
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Speaker 7: new gauge.
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Speaker 2: Well, we have seen a super tight trading range. I
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Speaker 2: mean today we're breaking out of a little bit on
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Speaker 2: the S and P, but we're on track for the
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Speaker 2: tightest trading range in a month since twenty seventeen. What
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Speaker 2: do you expect really.
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Speaker 5: Moves us out of that?
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Speaker 2: Last week? I thought the options expired on Friday was
11:24
Speaker 2: going to be awesome and then it turned out to
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Speaker 2: be such a disappointment.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, I think the zero data trading, zero data expiration
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Speaker 7: options thing is getting a bit overblown and people are
11:33
Speaker 7: paying a little bit too much attention to it. Keep
11:35
Speaker 7: in mind, you've always had zero data expiration options. It's
11:38
Speaker 7: just that originally they were only on the third Friday
11:41
Speaker 7: of the month. Then later we added weeklies, and so
11:43
Speaker 7: now you had them every Friday, and now on a
11:46
Speaker 7: handful not a large number, but a relatively handful of names,
11:50
Speaker 7: you have options that expire every day. So that ability
11:53
Speaker 7: has always been there, it's just now they're more frequent. Yes,
11:56
Speaker 7: there's a lot of activity on it if you take
11:59
Speaker 7: a look at it, but if you're talking about things
12:01
Speaker 7: like a broad based index like the S and P
12:02
Speaker 7: five hundred or the SPY which is tied to that,
12:06
Speaker 7: those aren't like stocks that can drop twenty or thirty
12:08
Speaker 7: percent in a day. If that happens, we're in big trouble.
12:10
Speaker 7: And we know that that doesn't happen very often. I mean,
12:13
Speaker 7: it's been since nineteen eighty seven since we've had that
12:16
Speaker 7: big of a move in an index like that. So
12:19
Speaker 7: I think there's a little bit too much attention being
12:21
Speaker 7: focused on this. It doesn't represent any more systemic risk
12:24
Speaker 7: than when you had two expirations a week, or just
12:27
Speaker 7: one expiration a week, or even just a couple of months.
12:29
Speaker 7: So I don't think that's a big issue. But part
12:31
Speaker 7: of the reason that I am expecting volatility to increase
12:34
Speaker 7: is because of what you just said. Last week, the
12:36
Speaker 7: VICS index was at its year to date low, and
12:39
Speaker 7: it has been a very quiet market here. Very recently.
12:42
Speaker 7: We've had it, like you said, you know, three out
12:45
Speaker 7: of the last five days, we've had actually four out
12:47
Speaker 7: of the last five days, we've had the S and
12:48
Speaker 7: P five hundred moved less than three points, which is
12:51
Speaker 7: just a fraction. That's quite unusual, especially compared to what
12:54
Speaker 7: we've seen earlier this year and of course last year
12:57
Speaker 7: as well.
12:58
Speaker 1: Randy, when you're looking at this market here over the
13:00
Speaker 1: next say, six to twelve months, what are kind of
13:02
Speaker 1: the things you need to be right on. Is it
13:04
Speaker 1: just the Fed, is it earnings? What are the things
13:07
Speaker 1: that you really need to have a strong conviction on.
13:10
Speaker 7: Well, all of those things have an impact. Obviously this week, specifically,
13:13
Speaker 7: we're going to get a GDP number here on Thursday.
13:16
Speaker 7: People have been talking since last year that we would
13:19
Speaker 7: be in a recession at this year we're going to
13:20
Speaker 7: get a positive GDP number above two percent in all likelihood.
13:25
Speaker 7: The ranges are between about two and two and a
13:27
Speaker 7: half percent if we have them. If we're going to
13:30
Speaker 7: have a recession this year, it didn't happen in Q one,
13:33
Speaker 7: and so far in Q two, it doesn't appear as
13:35
Speaker 7: if things are going that far down the hole on Granted,
13:38
Speaker 7: we're only a third of the way through, so we've
13:39
Speaker 7: got to keep an eye on GDP certainly, but even
13:42
Speaker 7: two consecutive quarters of negative GDP, at least in the
13:45
Speaker 7: United States does not constitute a recession. In fact, we
13:48
Speaker 7: had that in Q one and Q two of last year,
13:51
Speaker 7: so we're going to need to see probably that plus
13:55
Speaker 7: a significant deterioration in the labor market. So far, we've
13:58
Speaker 7: seen a very minor uptick and weekly javas claims, which
14:01
Speaker 7: is the more forward looking employment data. We haven't seen
14:04
Speaker 7: anything negative in the monthly numbers, which we'll get a
14:07
Speaker 7: good of course, on the first Friday of the subsequent month.
14:10
Speaker 7: That's kind of backward looking data. Earnings, of course, are
14:14
Speaker 7: obviously always important, and we're right now sort of ramping
14:17
Speaker 7: up into the thick part of earning season. I mean,
14:19
Speaker 7: we've got a lot of companies reporting earnings this week.
14:23
Speaker 7: S and P five hundred, well over one hundred companies
14:25
Speaker 7: due to announce this week so far, but the vast
14:28
Speaker 7: majority of the ones that have already announced, which is
14:29
Speaker 7: almost a third of them, have beaten expectations. So it's
14:32
Speaker 7: again a pretty decent earning season. So we need to
14:35
Speaker 7: see inflation continue to moderate. Based on both the CPI
14:39
Speaker 7: and the PPI, inflation either peaked in June or September
14:42
Speaker 7: of last year. Yes, prices are still going up, but
14:45
Speaker 7: they're going up at an ever decreasing rate. We're going
14:49
Speaker 7: to get a pc number on Friday, which, of course,
14:51
Speaker 7: as you know, is the FED favorite inflation engage, and
14:53
Speaker 7: all we really need from that one is to confirm
14:56
Speaker 7: the slowing trend of price increases that we got from
14:59
Speaker 7: both the c and the PPI, and.
15:01
Speaker 2: We get the employment cost Index, which I think your
15:03
Speaker 2: own power looks closely. Yet, Randy, you have a job
15:07
Speaker 2: in one of the most complicated areas of finance derivatives, right,
15:12
Speaker 2: I mean, we can't even spell it. How do you
15:16
Speaker 2: look at at options to tell you what's happening in
15:18
Speaker 2: the market, Like, what do you think is the most
15:20
Speaker 2: interesting play happening in your world.
15:22
Speaker 7: Yeah. So, derivatives is a very very very large category,
15:26
Speaker 7: and it includes all sorts of esoteric, over the counter,
15:30
Speaker 7: non standardized derivatives. I focus primarily on the options markets,
15:33
Speaker 7: the listed options markets, which are entirely fungible, multi exchanged,
15:38
Speaker 7: heavily regulated, standardized, and to a lesser extent, the futures markets.
15:43
Speaker 7: So what I'm looking for when I'm focusing on the
15:46
Speaker 7: options markets is what I found many many years ago
15:48
Speaker 7: my career now about thirty five years. I've found many
15:51
Speaker 7: years ago that when people have an opinion in the markets,
15:55
Speaker 7: they tend to go to the derivatives' markets to express
15:58
Speaker 7: that opinion first, not the equities markets. And the reason
16:01
Speaker 7: for that is because there's leverage there. Now, you could
16:04
Speaker 7: say that's the tail wagging the dog, but in many respects,
16:07
Speaker 7: that's exactly what happens. So I watch changes, I watch
16:10
Speaker 7: trends in changes of put call racials, and there are
16:13
Speaker 7: a lot of different put call racials. The ones that
16:15
Speaker 7: are on indexes are act for a different purpose. They're
16:18
Speaker 7: used primarily for hedging, whereas in the equity and ETF
16:21
Speaker 7: markets it's more directional and I look at open interest
16:25
Speaker 7: changes in the put call racials, and that's more longer term,
16:29
Speaker 7: and then of course things like volatility and a whole
16:31
Speaker 7: variety of other things. And it's not as intuitive as
16:34
Speaker 7: you might think. But if you can look at past patterns,
16:36
Speaker 7: and I've got data that goes all the way back
16:39
Speaker 7: twenty five or thirty years on a lot of this stuff,
16:40
Speaker 7: and I can see looking for repeating patterns, and when
16:43
Speaker 7: things start to look similar to what they have looked
16:46
Speaker 7: in the past, they oftentimes tend to do the same things.
16:49
Speaker 7: Like anything, it's not perfect, but if it's right two
16:51
Speaker 7: even two thirds of the time, you can you can
16:53
Speaker 7: take action based on that.
16:54
Speaker 2: I feel a little bit smarter now, I know.
16:57
Speaker 5: And that's saying something Randy.
16:58
Speaker 2: Adam listening. We got to get you to I'm in
17:00
Speaker 2: the studio and show us this data.
17:01
Speaker 7: I have been there before and it's been a while,
17:03
Speaker 7: but I'd be happy to come back.
17:04
Speaker 5: Are you based in Austin?
17:06
Speaker 7: I am yes, man.
17:07
Speaker 5: Now, is that city just busting at the seams? Let's
17:09
Speaker 5: be honest, it is.
17:10
Speaker 7: It absolutely is. It's like you know, the nation, the city,
17:13
Speaker 7: national bird, or whatever you want to call it. Is
17:15
Speaker 7: the crane like everywhere else, and all the roads are
17:18
Speaker 7: under construction, so it can be challenging.
17:19
Speaker 2: Everything cranes everywhere. It looks like Berlin in the nineties.
17:22
Speaker 2: I was there last week and I rode around for
17:24
Speaker 2: a couple days. All right, right, scooter, yep, And it's true.
17:27
Speaker 7: I've traveled all over. I travel all over. I was
17:29
Speaker 7: in southern California just last week, and it's like it everywhere.
17:32
Speaker 7: So you know that signs again the economy is doing
17:35
Speaker 7: really well.
17:36
Speaker 5: All right, Randy, thanks so much for joining us. Next
17:37
Speaker 5: time you're in the big city. Let us know. We'll
17:39
Speaker 5: get you in here. We'll chat derivatives.
17:41
Speaker 1: Randy Frederick, Managing director Trading Derivatives at the Schwab Center
17:45
Speaker 1: for Financial Research.
17:47
Speaker 5: That's pretty cool. I wont how many Schwab clients are
17:49
Speaker 5: trading derivatives.
17:50
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape catch a line program Bloomberg
17:53
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17:57
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18:00
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18:03
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18:07
Speaker 6: thirty all right.
18:09
Speaker 1: Everybody knows Matt's a gearhead. But I'm not as crazy
18:12
Speaker 1: about cars. But I love aviation just everything about the
18:15
Speaker 1: business in terms of making planes, flying planes, all that
18:17
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I was destined to own a private jet,
18:20
Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't know what happened along the way. Yeah,
18:23
Speaker 1: I should be one of those people that has a
18:25
Speaker 1: private jet and jets all around. But something when skewed
18:28
Speaker 1: you do why on jets?
18:30
Speaker 2: I do fly lunch, you know, commercial airliners and those
18:33
Speaker 2: are pretty awesome also, especially if you lease them.
18:36
Speaker 1: Yes, and so let's talk about that whole business. We're
18:38
Speaker 1: joining once again by Ali ben Elmdani nailed it, CEO
18:43
Speaker 1: of Al Aviation, who has extended us an invitation and
18:48
Speaker 1: open invitation to visit him in Marrakesh, which would be cool.
18:51
Speaker 5: So I need to I need to talk to.
18:53
Speaker 2: The powers that bag you will be in southern Spain
18:55
Speaker 2: for the month of August. Really, that can just.
18:59
Speaker 5: Hire. That's what they do. That's what Europeans do. They
19:02
Speaker 5: take a month off.
19:03
Speaker 1: That's not no anyway, Ali, thanks so much for joining
19:07
Speaker 1: us here. Talk to us about just the aviation business
19:11
Speaker 1: in general. It seems like every flight igon is packed.
19:15
Speaker 1: Talk to us about the aviation business.
19:16
Speaker 5: How is it? Where are we in terms of capacity?
19:19
Speaker 5: What are you seeing in your business?
19:20
Speaker 1: You're the one that leases jets to all of these
19:23
Speaker 1: big airlines around the world.
19:24
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, thank you for having me. There's
19:26
Speaker 8: always the pleasure to be here. Look, it's amazing time
19:29
Speaker 8: for viation. If you fly anyway, you can see that
19:32
Speaker 8: all the flights are fully packed. There's a big demand.
19:34
Speaker 8: It's fully back to speed for domestic covel. So domestic
19:37
Speaker 8: hovel world wide is back at full speed, and so
19:39
Speaker 8: national tourvel is about eighty percent. Because Asia is a
19:42
Speaker 8: little bit lacking, but the moment's Asia is going to
19:44
Speaker 8: be back on is going to be full all over
19:47
Speaker 8: the weld. Last time, always here, I told you it
19:48
Speaker 8: would be very hard to get tickets for this summer,
19:51
Speaker 8: and we see it now. All the airlines are going
19:53
Speaker 8: to make huge profits during the summer. We see it
19:56
Speaker 8: already happening. Some of the airlines making losses on the
20:00
Speaker 8: first quarter due to labor costs and fuel costs. But
20:04
Speaker 8: we believe that this summer is going to be an
20:05
Speaker 8: amazing summer for all those airlines. So it's an amazing
20:07
Speaker 8: time for aviation. It's an amazing time for airlines. And
20:10
Speaker 8: the only maybe issue that we can look at is
20:13
Speaker 8: the supply chain for boring an ebers, so that gives
20:15
Speaker 8: a little bit of delay on the deliveris. And airlines
20:19
Speaker 8: need aircraft no more than any time before.
20:22
Speaker 2: I mean, I wanted to ask about that. You guys
20:24
Speaker 2: are a global operation. You've got offices in New York, Dublin,
20:28
Speaker 2: Hong Kong. Do buy Casablanca?
20:31
Speaker 8: Thank you?
20:31
Speaker 2: It must be awesome. And I was thinking, probably the
20:36
Speaker 2: most difficult thing for you is to get a hold
20:38
Speaker 2: of planes, right because as soon as I'm sure as
20:41
Speaker 2: soon as you can buy them, they're leased out.
20:43
Speaker 8: Yeah, most of them are. At least that's months in advance.
20:46
Speaker 8: All the airlines are begging for planes for the summer.
20:49
Speaker 8: We have no planes on the gund We'd love to
20:51
Speaker 8: have planes on the ground. LISE rates are going higher
20:53
Speaker 8: because of the demand and there's not enough supply. So
20:55
Speaker 8: it's a very good time to be leasing aircrafts because
20:57
Speaker 8: there's a big demand by all the airlines to operate them.
21:00
Speaker 1: All right, So I was on an impression, which I
21:01
Speaker 1: think was a mistaken impression that at the beginning of
21:03
Speaker 1: the pandemic. When the world shut down, the airlines literally
21:06
Speaker 1: flew their airplanes to the desert in I don't know,
21:09
Speaker 1: Arizona parked them there. Can we just go get those
21:12
Speaker 1: and put them back in the air well.
21:15
Speaker 8: A lot of the airlines, of course, they park all
21:16
Speaker 8: those planes in the south of Spain, France or in
21:20
Speaker 8: the deserts here in the US. The issue is to
21:23
Speaker 8: get back a plane into service and to make it
21:26
Speaker 8: air warty. That's a big issue. So you cannot just
21:28
Speaker 8: go and start like you start a car with new
21:31
Speaker 8: battery like. There's a lot of ages. There's lots of
21:34
Speaker 8: air wardingness that you have to do to make sure
21:35
Speaker 8: that aircraft can fly again. So some of them, of
21:38
Speaker 8: course are back into service, but some of them had
21:41
Speaker 8: to be part of us because you couldn't get them
21:43
Speaker 8: back into service. There's two courses to put them back
21:44
Speaker 8: into service.
21:45
Speaker 2: But so some of them just get scrapped and we
21:47
Speaker 2: need a new supply from Bowing an airbus to replace that, of.
21:51
Speaker 8: Course, like on the Neo, on the Max. There's a
21:53
Speaker 8: big demand on the seven eighty seven and the eight
21:55
Speaker 8: fifty days big demand, so we need more supply of
21:58
Speaker 8: course from Airbus and Boeing. They are doing the best.
22:01
Speaker 8: It's not easy to make a plane, of course, they're
22:03
Speaker 8: doing the best, the amazing companies, but the supply chain
22:06
Speaker 8: issue that they have right now, and this song's only
22:07
Speaker 8: for aviation is worldwide, is a big issue that they
22:10
Speaker 8: are having to face, and their manogenes I think amazing
22:12
Speaker 8: need for both of them.
22:13
Speaker 2: We like the seven eighty seven and the eight three
22:15
Speaker 2: fifty yep a lot. Paul and I love it as passengers,
22:18
Speaker 2: you know, because there are awesome wide body jets and
22:22
Speaker 2: you can get your own bedroom and stuff.
22:24
Speaker 5: But you like the.
22:28
Speaker 2: Narrow body aircraft right for your business purposes. You do
22:31
Speaker 2: a lot more with like the A three twenty, don't you.
22:33
Speaker 8: Know, seven, because it's more liquid, you can't head them
22:39
Speaker 8: more easily. The precious pies, of course is one sid
22:41
Speaker 8: of the parts of a white body. So there's more
22:44
Speaker 8: demand of course for the now bodies. But the eight
22:45
Speaker 8: fifteen and seven eight seven we have few of them.
22:47
Speaker 8: Noble fleets are amazing aircraft to have in the fleets
22:49
Speaker 8: are there are very few efficients so those are aircraft
22:52
Speaker 8: that are needed by most of the operators.
22:54
Speaker 1: Of course, where's the aviation industry globally in terms of
22:58
Speaker 1: supply of pilots.
22:59
Speaker 5: Is that still an issue.
23:00
Speaker 8: Yes, it'll be an issue for a while, but not
23:02
Speaker 8: only pilots. Mechanics, everything around aviation is going to be
23:05
Speaker 8: an issue for a while. A lots of them doing COVID,
23:08
Speaker 8: you know, did the attire got laid off, so not
23:10
Speaker 8: to get them back. It's very hard and there's a
23:13
Speaker 8: higher cost of labor. Of course, that's is unpacked for
23:16
Speaker 8: both mechanics, engineers. Everything in the aviation employments is kind
23:22
Speaker 8: of hard, like not get.
23:23
Speaker 2: I've also started a notice pricing going up, kind of
23:25
Speaker 2: the first time in twenty years that I've seen airlines
23:28
Speaker 2: with real pricing power. I mean now they can charge
23:31
Speaker 2: double or triple what they had previously gotten, you know,
23:36
Speaker 2: for even economy tickets. Does that continue? You think they
23:40
Speaker 2: have it? We've already told us into the summer. But
23:42
Speaker 2: are they able to hold and raise those prices even further.
23:44
Speaker 8: As long as we don't have enough supply of aircups. Yes,
23:47
Speaker 8: Because like if you fly anywhere like I flow yesterday,
23:49
Speaker 8: if you fly anyone in the US or overseas, you
23:52
Speaker 8: see that there's an issue that there's not enough seats,
23:54
Speaker 8: so they would be supply and demand, so the pvices
23:57
Speaker 8: are going to be higher because there's not enough supply.
24:00
Speaker 1: So what's a typical deal for you look like if
24:02
Speaker 1: you're going to lease x number of jets to a
24:05
Speaker 1: well known airline, what are kind of like the terms
24:08
Speaker 1: of a deal? What are the key terms that you
24:09
Speaker 1: guys negotiate.
24:10
Speaker 8: So first of all is the length. So usually we
24:13
Speaker 8: try to do as long as possible, especially with the
24:14
Speaker 8: major care so it's twelve year, fifteen years kind of lease.
24:17
Speaker 8: It starts at seven years usually the shortest one we
24:19
Speaker 8: have in our portfolio, and then you lease it to
24:22
Speaker 8: an airline, and of course better the credit is and
24:25
Speaker 8: if it's one of the major airlines, lower is the
24:27
Speaker 8: least factor that you are going to give them. Also,
24:29
Speaker 8: it's a lot about relationships. You need to make sure
24:31
Speaker 8: that you protect the relationship with those airlines to make
24:34
Speaker 8: sure that when they need you, you are there. You
24:35
Speaker 8: cannot be always hard on the airline because it's more partnership.
24:39
Speaker 8: You only have few airlines you can deal with, so
24:40
Speaker 8: you need to make sure that you protect that relationship
24:42
Speaker 8: way deeply and with all the airlines that we have
24:45
Speaker 8: relationship with I think when they needed us they found
24:47
Speaker 8: especial during COVID.
24:48
Speaker 2: But I imagine your cost of financing is starting the
24:51
Speaker 2: sore right, Yes, because of finance is.
24:52
Speaker 8: Going higher, especially on the death side due to the
24:54
Speaker 8: unsail says. But in our markets there's a lag between
24:59
Speaker 8: the cost of finance seen and the least grate factor,
25:01
Speaker 8: which is the designs that we charge the airlines. There's
25:03
Speaker 8: usually six months delay. And I think in the next
25:05
Speaker 8: few months that Lee's grades factor is going to go higher,
25:08
Speaker 8: and therefore the cost of leasing aircrafts to the airlines
25:10
Speaker 8: is going to go higher.
25:11
Speaker 5: So you buy do you buy directly from like air Bus?
25:15
Speaker 5: And as of no, we don't.
25:16
Speaker 8: What we do is like when an airline goes and
25:18
Speaker 8: buy from Ebers and Bowing about one year before the
25:20
Speaker 8: issue IFP, and they come to us and say, guys,
25:22
Speaker 8: can you finance this aircraft that's we bost from Boys,
25:24
Speaker 8: Boying and Evers seven years ago, for example, So they
25:27
Speaker 8: have the PGPs, we completely the payments that they pay
25:29
Speaker 8: seven years before then they make all the payments and
25:32
Speaker 8: one year before the issue IFP in the market to
25:34
Speaker 8: ask who can do what we call a san and
25:36
Speaker 8: Liz bag for those aircrafts or finances for those aircrafts,
25:38
Speaker 8: and that's how we do it's usually with airlines.
25:41
Speaker 5: Very cool, that's a cool business. Yeah, I didn't even
25:43
Speaker 5: know that.
25:43
Speaker 9: That's kind of how they get ahead of it, unlike
25:45
Speaker 9: what you probably used to do for let's say, cellular
25:49
Speaker 9: tower companies, right, they would sell those and lead them
25:51
Speaker 9: back and they do it, you know, before the first
25:54
Speaker 9: site actually hits the ground or fascinator.
25:56
Speaker 1: All right, next time we do this amer cash Ali
25:58
Speaker 1: then El Madani, CEO of A B L Aviation, talking
26:01
Speaker 1: about the kind of the making of the sausage of
26:03
Speaker 1: the whole aerospace airline industry, how the planes actually get
26:06
Speaker 1: to the airlines and we get our little fannies in
26:09
Speaker 1: the seats, so supply shortage out there for airlines.
26:14
Speaker 6: You're listening to the team. Ken's a our live program
26:17
Speaker 6: Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
26:21
Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen
26:25
Speaker 6: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.
26:29
Speaker 1: Again, right in the thick of earning season in a
26:31
Speaker 1: big way, let's check in with Liz Young, head of
26:34
Speaker 1: Investment Strategy, at so far, Liz, you know, we're starting
26:37
Speaker 1: to really get some sense of kind of where companies
26:40
Speaker 1: are seeing some choke points, where they're seeing some opportunities.
26:43
Speaker 1: What are you taking away from kind of what we've
26:45
Speaker 1: seen so far this earning season?
26:49
Speaker 10: Yeah, thanks for having me. So, I think the first
26:52
Speaker 10: couple of things that we took away from it where
26:53
Speaker 10: everybody was fearing the bank earnings, and those turned out
26:57
Speaker 10: to be better than better than feared at least, which
27:00
Speaker 10: I think public sentiment except for First Republic, but I
27:04
Speaker 10: don't know that that was something that we were all
27:07
Speaker 10: hoping for some sort of huge positive surprise out of.
27:09
Speaker 10: So a lot of the news that was out there
27:11
Speaker 10: I think was expected, but bank earnings, particularly big bank earnings,
27:16
Speaker 10: came in better than expected, and that was a nice
27:18
Speaker 10: sentiment boost to kick off earning season, which was different
27:22
Speaker 10: from what I think everybody feared could have been possible.
27:25
Speaker 10: And then as we've moved through, I mean, obviously we've
27:27
Speaker 10: still got a lot to go, and this is a
27:29
Speaker 10: really big week for earnings, as is next week. But
27:32
Speaker 10: what we're seeing now is you've got even some consumer
27:35
Speaker 10: staples types companies and some consumer discretionary companies still seeing
27:39
Speaker 10: the benefit of being able to pass cost increases through
27:44
Speaker 10: in their prices, and revenues have grown maybe more than
27:47
Speaker 10: people expected as well. The one thing that we still
27:51
Speaker 10: need to be watching very very closely is that idea
27:55
Speaker 10: that profit margins were so fat coming into this and
27:58
Speaker 10: that's what was going to protect us. As inflation comes down,
28:01
Speaker 10: revenues are likely to come down with it, and if
28:04
Speaker 10: companies have not cut costs enough or quickly enough to
28:07
Speaker 10: preserve those margins, we could start to hear about more
28:10
Speaker 10: and more pressure as the quarters roll on.
28:13
Speaker 2: So what do we Last year, we did have some
28:15
Speaker 2: big fat profit margins right across the S and P
28:17
Speaker 2: five hundred. I think it was about fifteen percent, and
28:20
Speaker 2: we were looking at earnings of like two twenty three.
28:23
Speaker 2: What do you expect for.
28:24
Speaker 10: This year, Liz, Well, it's interesting that expectations have not
28:29
Speaker 10: really come down very much in the last couple months,
28:31
Speaker 10: and right now, if things stay as expected, we'll have
28:35
Speaker 10: a flat year in twenty twenty three versus twenty twenty two,
28:39
Speaker 10: which I find difficult to imagine given the environment and
28:43
Speaker 10: given the fact that the FED has tightened conditions so much,
28:46
Speaker 10: and we're now hearing quite a few headlines about not
28:49
Speaker 10: only pressure and commercial real estate, but just credit tightening overall,
28:53
Speaker 10: which is likely to pressure the availability of funds for
28:56
Speaker 10: smaller businesses, mid sized businesses. And that's something that takes
29:00
Speaker 10: a little while to bleed through into the greater economy,
29:03
Speaker 10: but it's certainly something that is not to be ignored.
29:06
Speaker 10: So I would expect that earnings probably contract, maybe just slightly,
29:10
Speaker 10: but I would expect them to contract for the full year.
29:13
Speaker 10: And one of the other really interesting things that you
29:16
Speaker 10: can look at is in this earning season in particular,
29:20
Speaker 10: although it's expected to be negative growth for the quarter,
29:24
Speaker 10: the sectors that are expected to add positively to that
29:27
Speaker 10: number are mostly cyclical. So if we head into something
29:32
Speaker 10: like an economic contraction, we probably lose some of the
29:35
Speaker 10: strength in those cyclical sectors, which is why I feel
29:38
Speaker 10: like even just the flat earnings expectation year over year
29:41
Speaker 10: is a little bit fragile at this point.
29:43
Speaker 2: Isn't it odd that we have such bearish sentiment. I mean,
29:48
Speaker 2: even you know, the bowls of yesterday are bears today
29:56
Speaker 2: Kilanovitch for example. And yet analysts haven't taken down their
30:02
Speaker 2: earnings expectations to below last year and hedge funds are
30:08
Speaker 2: short treasuries. Like, what's going on? How do you square
30:11
Speaker 2: this circle?
30:13
Speaker 11: Yeah?
30:13
Speaker 10: One of the themes that I've been talking about all
30:15
Speaker 10: year is that there's been these contradictory signals and somebody
30:19
Speaker 10: is going to be wrong. Right, one of them is
30:21
Speaker 10: going to be wrong. I would not ignore the bond market,
30:25
Speaker 10: and the signals of the bond market has been sending.
30:27
Speaker 10: All the different curve inversions, the volatility in something like
30:30
Speaker 10: the two year yield, those are not signs of a
30:33
Speaker 10: stable market environment. Those are signs of a period where
30:36
Speaker 10: we're still ripe for large intra day or intra week swings.
30:40
Speaker 10: And I think we're sort of stuck in this purgatory
30:42
Speaker 10: right now where there hasn't been a catalyst on either
30:45
Speaker 10: the upside or the downside to get us out of
30:47
Speaker 10: a trading range in equities. And that's what we're all
30:50
Speaker 10: waiting for. But you're right that it seems like one
30:53
Speaker 10: another bull dies every day.
30:55
Speaker 11: Right.
30:55
Speaker 10: We've got a lot of headwinds and a lot of data,
30:58
Speaker 10: and just an environment doesn't usually bode well for equity
31:02
Speaker 10: return and equity upside. But the reality is that it's
31:06
Speaker 10: that old a dodge you don't fight the tape, and
31:09
Speaker 10: a lot of the strength still is showing itself in
31:12
Speaker 10: some of the technicals. There are obviously buyers there waiting
31:16
Speaker 10: for the littlest dip to put more money into work.
31:19
Speaker 10: So we can't argue with that at this point. And
31:22
Speaker 10: I think it's what's kept us sort of in between
31:25
Speaker 10: those beacons on either side of a trading range in
31:28
Speaker 10: the S and P and even in the NAW deck
31:30
Speaker 10: to some degree.
31:31
Speaker 1: You know, this is a little bit of a technical
31:33
Speaker 1: analysis question, but you know, the good news is the
31:36
Speaker 1: S and P is up five percent, our seven percent
31:39
Speaker 1: year to date. Kind of the questioning news is that
31:42
Speaker 1: there hasn't been.
31:43
Speaker 5: Like a lot of breadth.
31:44
Speaker 1: I guess if you will, and there hasn't been, you know,
31:48
Speaker 1: I'm just it doesn't feel like it's really being broadly
31:52
Speaker 1: embraced here. Is that in fact your read of it?
31:55
Speaker 1: And if so, does that wear you.
31:59
Speaker 11: Well?
31:59
Speaker 10: One of the things that you want to see if
32:00
Speaker 10: you believe that this is a new bowl market, and
32:03
Speaker 10: it would have to go hand in hand with the
32:04
Speaker 10: idea that this is also a new economic expansion or
32:08
Speaker 10: that we're in an economic expansionary environment. If that were
32:11
Speaker 10: the case, you would see something like smaller cap stocks
32:15
Speaker 10: at least participating in the rally, if not leading the rally,
32:19
Speaker 10: and that is not what's been happening. So you're seeing
32:21
Speaker 10: a lot of the strength coming from big cap tech
32:24
Speaker 10: and just large cap names in general, which has an
32:27
Speaker 10: outsized effect on market cap weighted indices, and I think
32:31
Speaker 10: we're all aware of that. But in order for it
32:33
Speaker 10: to be consistent with a new bowl market an early expansion,
32:37
Speaker 10: you want to see small caps participate. You also want
32:40
Speaker 10: to see something like the gold the copper to gold
32:42
Speaker 10: ratio be rising, copper being more cyclical, gold being more
32:46
Speaker 10: of a stable store of value. That's not been happening either,
32:50
Speaker 10: because gold continued to make new highs recently. So it's
32:55
Speaker 10: there are inconsistencies with the signals that you'd want to
32:58
Speaker 10: see in order to believe in this as a new
33:01
Speaker 10: bowl market, which I think is also why you see
33:04
Speaker 10: more and more people every day getting cautious because the
33:07
Speaker 10: data and the backup for saying that this is a
33:09
Speaker 10: bull market just isn't necessarily there in the way that
33:13
Speaker 10: we'd want.
33:13
Speaker 4: It to be.
33:14
Speaker 2: Well, And there's also the factor of returns. You can
33:18
Speaker 2: actually get those now, so if you're freaked out about
33:21
Speaker 2: this market, just like if you were freaked out about
33:25
Speaker 2: your bank. There are money markets out there. There are
33:29
Speaker 2: you know, atfs out there that can offer you very
33:32
Speaker 2: safe for five five and a half percent returns.
33:37
Speaker 10: Right, Yeah, they can offer you income, They can offer
33:40
Speaker 10: you a yield, so it's not necessarily a capital return,
33:44
Speaker 10: but it is something that These are rates we haven't
33:46
Speaker 10: seen in decades, and they may be rates that we
33:49
Speaker 10: don't see for a very long time again. So if
33:51
Speaker 10: you are in this kind of weighted out camp, which
33:54
Speaker 10: I would be at this point, the title of my
33:57
Speaker 10: blog last week was whistle while you wait, you can
34:00
Speaker 10: get a benefit for waiting it out and getting paid,
34:04
Speaker 10: well you wait right, getting paid in yield in some
34:07
Speaker 10: of those really safe places that would be the short
34:10
Speaker 10: end of the treasury curve, So anything shorter than about
34:12
Speaker 10: three years, that would be money markets that could be
34:15
Speaker 10: CDs depending on where you want to put it. There
34:18
Speaker 10: are a lot of decent options out there to get
34:20
Speaker 10: paid while we.
34:21
Speaker 4: Wait this out.
34:22
Speaker 5: And Liz love to get your thoughts just on valuation
34:24
Speaker 5: in this market.
34:25
Speaker 1: It feels it doesn't feel cheap to me by any means.
34:28
Speaker 1: And now I got smart folks like you telling me
34:31
Speaker 1: that I still got earnings risk in this market. So
34:34
Speaker 1: you really can't make a valuation call here, can you.
34:38
Speaker 10: Well, valuations are never a good timing mechanism, so the
34:42
Speaker 10: fact that we're trading above the ten and fifteen year
34:45
Speaker 10: average on the SMP doesn't exactly give me warm and
34:48
Speaker 10: fuzzy feelings about this being a good entry point. The
34:51
Speaker 10: other thing that I would say is if we're looking
34:53
Speaker 10: at eighteen point one eighteen point two times forward earnings,
34:57
Speaker 10: that's above the ten year average, that year period was
35:01
Speaker 10: spent with five of those years at zero interest rates,
35:05
Speaker 10: and the average tenure Treasury yield over that period was
35:07
Speaker 10: about two to two point one percent. We are obviously
35:10
Speaker 10: in a different environment right now, so the valuations don't
35:13
Speaker 10: look all that compelling given what's going on in the
35:16
Speaker 10: economy and given what's going on in the rate environment.
35:19
Speaker 10: Now that being said, if the earnings come down further,
35:23
Speaker 10: if estimates come down further, and the results come in
35:26
Speaker 10: lower than expected, you're going to see what's called multiple expansion.
35:30
Speaker 10: And it's also difficult to argue that we deserve to
35:33
Speaker 10: see more multiple expansion with deteriorating fundamentals. So it's true
35:38
Speaker 10: the valuation picture right now, if you're looking at that
35:41
Speaker 10: as some kind of guide, it doesn't seem like a
35:43
Speaker 10: great time to be putting new money to work.
35:47
Speaker 2: I wanted to just also give you a shout out
35:49
Speaker 2: for that blog a post, Liz, because it's pretty awesome,
35:52
Speaker 2: the snow white thread going through. So while you wait
35:56
Speaker 2: looking for the poison Apple mirror, mirror on the wall,
35:58
Speaker 2: I just pulled it up on dot com. So just
36:02
Speaker 2: for our listeners, you can you can subscribe to Liz's
36:05
Speaker 2: blog on SOFI dot com. You can listen to it
36:07
Speaker 2: as well, which I think I'm gonna put my subscription
36:11
Speaker 2: in right now.
36:11
Speaker 1: All right, Liz Young, thanks so much for joining us.
36:13
Speaker 1: Liz Young, head of Investment Strategy at SOFI.
36:18
Speaker 6: You're listening to the tape cats are live program Bloomberg
36:21
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the
36:24
Speaker 6: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.
36:28
Speaker 6: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
36:31
Speaker 6: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
36:36
Speaker 5: I'm going to get to the conversation now of the day.
36:38
Speaker 1: Brian Stelter, he's the Walter Shorenstein Fellow at Harvard University,
36:43
Speaker 1: but we all know him as the former chief media
36:45
Speaker 1: correspondent at CNN, former media reporter for The New York Times,
36:49
Speaker 1: a published author several times over.
36:53
Speaker 5: We really he was our go to guy on this topic.
36:55
Speaker 1: We want to get a sense of what it means
36:57
Speaker 1: for Tucker Carlson to be let go at Fox, what
37:00
Speaker 1: does it mean for Don Lemon to be pushed out
37:02
Speaker 1: at CNN?
37:03
Speaker 5: And there's nobody better. Brian, thank you so much for
37:04
Speaker 5: taking the time to join us.
37:06
Speaker 1: I want to start with Tucker Carlson, because boy, that
37:09
Speaker 1: one took. I think everybody by surprise. What's your read
37:12
Speaker 1: of what's happening with some of these high profile names
37:14
Speaker 1: at these cable networks.
37:16
Speaker 12: Yeah, Don Lemon's departure from CNN was inevitable, but Tucker
37:20
Speaker 12: Carlson's firing that was incredible. It's true that nobody saw
37:24
Speaker 12: that coming, including Tucker Carlson. He viewed himself as all powerful,
37:29
Speaker 12: as even bigger than Fox News. You know, he would
37:31
Speaker 12: sometimes criticize his bosses at Fox and that may have
37:35
Speaker 12: led to his dismissal. You know, we don't know for
37:37
Speaker 12: sure because Fox is not commenting. Carlson still hasn't said
37:40
Speaker 12: a word about this. It's been twenty five hours. He's
37:42
Speaker 12: totally silent. But what we do now is that in
37:45
Speaker 12: the Dominion lawsuit, through the discovery process, Dominion was able
37:48
Speaker 12: to obtain Huger Carlson's phones, you know, his text messages,
37:52
Speaker 12: his emails, and some of those emails and texts were
37:55
Speaker 12: pretty embarrassing. They were out in public because of the
37:57
Speaker 12: legal filings, but many others were redacted. Many of the
38:00
Speaker 12: other messages were redacted. That means Fox knows what Tucker said,
38:04
Speaker 12: and Dominion knows what Tucker has said, but the rest
38:06
Speaker 12: of us don't. And I think the answer to why
38:08
Speaker 12: he was dismissed is somewhere in those redacted text messages.
38:13
Speaker 2: It's interesting because the ones that we saw he said,
38:18
Speaker 2: you know, Donald Trump was a demonic force, and he
38:21
Speaker 2: called the Trump team liars, and I think he may
38:24
Speaker 2: have said even that he hated President Trump. And then
38:27
Speaker 2: last week or two weeks ago, he sits down with
38:29
Speaker 2: the former president and gives him the most softball interview
38:34
Speaker 2: I have ever seen. What's happening in that relationship.
38:38
Speaker 12: Brian The most generous assessment is that you know he
38:42
Speaker 12: was mad at his friend, right, he was mad at
38:44
Speaker 12: his friend for inciting a riot. The less generous explanation
38:49
Speaker 12: as the Carlson ze grifter. He's a hypocrite. He'll do
38:52
Speaker 12: whatever it takes to keep his audience happy, and if
38:55
Speaker 12: it means pretending to love Donald Trump when he hates
38:57
Speaker 12: sald Trump, then he'll go ahead and do that. I
39:00
Speaker 12: think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. I
39:02
Speaker 12: think what we were seeing from Carlson were messages in
39:06
Speaker 12: the heat of the moment, in that awful period between
39:09
Speaker 12: the election and the insurrection and then right after the insurrection.
39:13
Speaker 12: But I always remember what he said that night. You know,
39:15
Speaker 12: the police were still trying to restore order on January sixth,
39:18
Speaker 12: there was a curfew. The city was terrifying. And what
39:21
Speaker 12: it Tucker said to his viewers that night. He looked
39:23
Speaker 12: in the camera and he said, this is not your fault,
39:25
Speaker 12: this is their fault. She never really said who they was.
39:28
Speaker 12: But that's Tucker's show in a nutshell, us versus them,
39:31
Speaker 12: you versus everyone else, us against the world. That's his message,
39:35
Speaker 12: and well to the extent that he needs to. You know,
39:38
Speaker 12: throw softballs to Trump to keep his own power and
39:41
Speaker 12: keeps to spreading that message, and he's willing to do it.
39:43
Speaker 12: I mean, we've seen that kind of where will he
39:44
Speaker 12: re emerge?
39:45
Speaker 2: We've seen that kind of scapegoadism right throughout history. Stirring
39:49
Speaker 2: up anger, stirring up fear seems to be a great
39:51
Speaker 2: business model for Fox. Does Carlson really have a monopoly
39:55
Speaker 2: on that or can they just put anybody in that spot? Well,
40:00
Speaker 2: this is a.
40:00
Speaker 12: Supply and demand problem, right We're talking about the supply.
40:03
Speaker 12: Tucker Carlson was a supplier. Whoever replaces him will be
40:06
Speaker 12: a supplier. The thornier part of this is demand. Why
40:09
Speaker 12: is there a demand for that kind of rage news,
40:12
Speaker 12: hate news, you know, commentary that's full of resentment and
40:16
Speaker 12: grievance about what they perceived to be a loss to America.
40:19
Speaker 12: As you said, there's a long history of this in
40:21
Speaker 12: America and in other countries, and Tucker tapped into it
40:24
Speaker 12: in a really unique way. But I do believe there
40:27
Speaker 12: are many others who would like a chance to give
40:29
Speaker 12: it a try. Now that said, Rupert Murdoch and Laughlin Murdoch,
40:32
Speaker 12: they are actually the bosses here, not Tucker. They are
40:35
Speaker 12: the ones they decided to make a change, and I
40:37
Speaker 12: have a feeling it's just an educated guess that they
40:40
Speaker 12: don't want to have a repeat her Carlson. They do
40:44
Speaker 12: not want another show that's going to live in these
40:46
Speaker 12: fever swamps that's going to indulge white identity politics to
40:50
Speaker 12: the degree that Carlson did. I guess we're going to
40:53
Speaker 12: find out when they actually choose a new host. For now,
40:55
Speaker 12: they're probably going to have tryouts on the air for
40:57
Speaker 12: a while. But Brian Kilmead was the person they chose
40:59
Speaker 12: yes yesterday, and that's very revealing. Brian kilmeat is a conservative,
41:03
Speaker 12: but he is not a conspiracy monger the way Tker
41:06
Speaker 12: Carlson is. As one source said to me, Brand knows
41:09
Speaker 12: where the line is. He knows where the line is,
41:12
Speaker 12: and I think that might be the kind of person
41:14
Speaker 12: the Murdochs want to install.
41:16
Speaker 2: What do you think about the possibility of Newsmax getting
41:20
Speaker 2: Tucker Carlson or are there any other networks that can
41:24
Speaker 2: really compete with Fox in terms of this kind of
41:26
Speaker 2: product at this level.
41:28
Speaker 12: You know, again only an educated guest, but I think
41:30
Speaker 12: the only way that Carlson ends up at another far
41:33
Speaker 12: right network. Is if he buys the network, if he
41:35
Speaker 12: takes it over, if he becomes the you know, the
41:38
Speaker 12: head of the network. If he becomes you know, remember
41:40
Speaker 12: Oprah Winfrey a reformatted at a cable channel ten fifteen
41:43
Speaker 12: years ago, something called own. That's the only model I
41:46
Speaker 12: could see Tucker going because he feels he is way
41:49
Speaker 12: too big to be on a small, fringe cable channel
41:52
Speaker 12: doing a show one hour a day. He wants an empire,
41:55
Speaker 12: and he was starting to build an empire at Fox.
41:57
Speaker 12: So I think it makes sense that he will go
41:59
Speaker 12: out and try to build an empire somewhere else.
42:02
Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, you know I've as an equity research channel,
42:04
Speaker 1: so I covered Fox Corporation in the Murdoch family for decades,
42:07
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering, I'm not sure that I guess this
42:11
Speaker 1: feels much more like a Lachlan decision than a Murdoch decision,
42:15
Speaker 1: or do you think there was some more cohesion there.
42:19
Speaker 12: It's so delicious because for years all we heard was
42:22
Speaker 12: that Lachlin and Tucker were so close, and my reporting
42:24
Speaker 12: indicates that was true. They were chummy, they would hang
42:26
Speaker 12: out together when they were in the same city, but
42:28
Speaker 12: clearly there's been a fracture in the relationship or this
42:31
Speaker 12: is just one of those ruthless business decisions by Laughlin
42:35
Speaker 12: at the end of the day, though, I'd like to
42:37
Speaker 12: know more, and I hope we learn more about the
42:39
Speaker 12: Rupert Murdoch role in this, because we have read a
42:41
Speaker 12: lot of Rupert's emails, We've read his dissatisfaction with Donald Trump.
42:45
Speaker 12: It increasingly feels like Rupert Murdoch, you know, has become
42:48
Speaker 12: prisoner to this radicalized GOP that he helped create. What
42:53
Speaker 12: I wonder is is he trying to drag it back
42:55
Speaker 12: toward the middle? Is he trying to drag it back
42:57
Speaker 12: more toward a reality based GOP. The day Tarry Carlson,
43:01
Speaker 12: you know, it was more of a Donald Trump Republican, well,
43:03
Speaker 12: Rupert Murdox more of an Asa Hutchinson, Chris Christie Republican.
43:07
Speaker 12: You know, part of this is a proxy for the
43:09
Speaker 12: war for the soul to Republican Party.
43:12
Speaker 9: Is that what?
43:12
Speaker 2: So I've heard that theory. I'm not sure how much
43:16
Speaker 2: credence I give that Fox is gonna try and get
43:18
Speaker 2: back towards the middle or just back towards the right
43:21
Speaker 2: from the ultra right. But what about CNN. I mean,
43:24
Speaker 2: they have voiced that I think that was part of
43:27
Speaker 2: the reason that Reliable Sources got canceled. And I want
43:31
Speaker 2: to say, I think a lot of people miss that show.
43:33
Speaker 5: Brian, thank you.
43:34
Speaker 2: Is that the reason that Don Lemon was out or
43:36
Speaker 2: was it just the comment about women being past their
43:39
Speaker 2: prime and there if they're not in their twenties and thirties.
43:42
Speaker 12: Well, first of all, I don't technically know why my
43:44
Speaker 12: show was canceled. I know some folks think it was political.
43:46
Speaker 12: I don't know what happened, but I do believe Don
43:49
Speaker 12: Lemon was on thin ice and felt that he was
43:51
Speaker 12: on thin ice because of the new management at CNN.
43:54
Speaker 12: I think this was about more than any single incident.
43:56
Speaker 12: So the controversy about Nikki Haley, you know, that was
43:58
Speaker 12: a self inflicted woun that was foolish. There were other
44:01
Speaker 12: foolish moments, but this seemed to be not any single
44:05
Speaker 12: there was at of any single episode, but rather an accumulation,
44:08
Speaker 12: an accumulation of controversies and frustrations. You know, it was
44:12
Speaker 12: almost just like Don Lemon and CNN were heading in
44:14
Speaker 12: two different directions, and it was kind of inevitable this
44:17
Speaker 12: day would come, it's.
44:18
Speaker 2: Interesting that happened on the same day. What do you
44:20
Speaker 2: think of then, the decision by the Biden administration to
44:23
Speaker 2: put out like a quiet presidential election campaign launch video
44:30
Speaker 2: the morning after the Tucker Carlson news kind of rocks
44:34
Speaker 2: the media landscape.
44:36
Speaker 6: Yeah.
44:36
Speaker 12: I don't actually think they're related, although it is interesting
44:39
Speaker 12: timing and for Biden to be out there trying to
44:41
Speaker 12: basically say, let's you know, if if Biden in twenty
44:44
Speaker 12: twenty was saying make America saying again, make America calm again,
44:48
Speaker 12: then his message today is let's keep America calm, Let's
44:51
Speaker 12: keep America saying let's keep America just like lower let's
44:55
Speaker 12: keep a temperature down right, let's lower lower the temperature.
44:58
Speaker 12: That's the opposite of what cable knew this is about
45:00
Speaker 12: these days, especially Fox. I think it is a false
45:02
Speaker 12: equivalence to claim that the Fox and CNN are two
45:04
Speaker 12: sides of a coin. They're not. Fox is its own beast,
45:07
Speaker 12: and Fox isn't anything but sane, calm, normal, right, and
45:11
Speaker 12: it's Carlson lurder. Carlson was, you know, kind of the
45:13
Speaker 12: most conspiratorial, im paomoid of them all at Fox.
45:16
Speaker 11: So there's a.
45:17
Speaker 12: There's a contrast. I suspect the Biden campaign does not mind, right,
45:20
Speaker 12: the really does not mind between the cable chaos, right,
45:23
Speaker 12: the pipers and noise that's out there, versus the Biden message,
45:27
Speaker 12: which is I'm gonna make you more for.
45:29
Speaker 1: All right, Brian, We're gonna have to leave it there
45:30
Speaker 1: just because the time Brian Stealter, he is at Harvard
45:33
Speaker 1: University now formerly of CNN.
45:36
Speaker 6: You're listening to the team. Can's a live program Bloomberg
45:39
Speaker 6: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
45:43
Speaker 6: the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen
45:46
Speaker 6: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.
45:51
Speaker 1: Getting back to one of my favorite topics, industrial America,
45:55
Speaker 1: where they make stuff, like in the Midwest. We had
45:58
Speaker 1: the gentleman from Hunting Bank in Ohio on earlier and
46:01
Speaker 1: he says, yeah, we make stuff. GE makes stuff, Boeing
46:05
Speaker 1: makes stuff, Three M makes stuff. So we want to
46:08
Speaker 1: talk industrials. We talked to Brooks Southerland. She's the Industrial
46:11
Speaker 1: and M and a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion. She joined
46:14
Speaker 1: us live here in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio.
46:17
Speaker 5: Let's start with.
46:18
Speaker 1: Ge I'm looking at the PGeo function of on the
46:23
Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal for G. It kind of gives you segment
46:25
Speaker 1: information because I want to see what's left of GE.
46:29
Speaker 1: And it seems like Aviation's big healthcare is big powers,
46:32
Speaker 1: big and renewable energy. That's where we are right.
46:35
Speaker 11: Well, they actually have gotten rid of the healthcare.
46:36
Speaker 5: They've gotten rid of the healthcare. We gotta update PGO.
46:39
Speaker 1: That was in January, Okay, so the company had talked
46:43
Speaker 1: to us about the quarter they had and talked to
46:44
Speaker 1: us about kind of the stocks of fifty percent is
46:47
Speaker 1: the worst behind GE.
46:49
Speaker 11: I think that it is, and I mean a lot
46:51
Speaker 11: of it is a reflection of that streamlining that you
46:53
Speaker 11: mentioned that you know, GE was just so complicated for
46:57
Speaker 11: so long, and it just it was hit by one
47:01
Speaker 11: crisis after another that targeted, you know, affected a number
47:05
Speaker 11: of its different business units. And I think that just
47:07
Speaker 11: made investors very apprehensive about owning this company because you
47:11
Speaker 11: just never really knew what you were going to get
47:13
Speaker 11: on earnings day or really any other time. And the
47:16
Speaker 11: company is just a lot simpler than it was before.
47:19
Speaker 11: It's easier to understand, easier to digest, and I think
47:22
Speaker 11: you see that in today's earnings results as well. That
47:24
Speaker 11: this is you know, one of the cleaner, simpler earning
47:27
Speaker 11: statements I've seen from GE. And one of the bigger
47:30
Speaker 11: developments is that they had positive free cash flows.
47:34
Speaker 1: I know that's been important not just for the creditors
47:37
Speaker 1: for this company, but also the equity holders want to see.
47:39
Speaker 11: Free cass absolutely, and this is the first first quarter
47:42
Speaker 11: of positive free cash flows since twenty fifteen. So the
47:44
Speaker 11: company's always been back end weighted to the latter part
47:48
Speaker 11: of the year, and that's sort of been their typical cycle.
47:50
Speaker 11: But they've talked a lot about smoothing this out, creating
47:53
Speaker 11: a little bit more balanced and so what's really encouraging
47:55
Speaker 11: to see that number there today.
47:56
Speaker 1: Okay, stocks up fifty percent, hit a fifty two week
47:59
Speaker 1: high today, So I mean, our most analysts kind of
48:02
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, this isn't maybe the Ge of
48:06
Speaker 1: our parents, but it's a pretty good company.
48:09
Speaker 11: I think it's getting a lot better. And I think
48:11
Speaker 11: that you know, Larry Colp is very focused on operations.
48:15
Speaker 11: He's a big proponent of lean manufacturing, and he really
48:18
Speaker 11: gets into the weeds on how these businesses are run.
48:21
Speaker 11: And I think that that is paying off. It hasn't,
48:23
Speaker 11: you know, been the fastest process, but it's been slow
48:26
Speaker 11: and steady, and you're seeing GE make a lot of progress. Now.
48:29
Speaker 11: It's heading toward a spinoff of its power and renewable
48:32
Speaker 11: business in twenty twenty four, and that will leave you
48:35
Speaker 11: with essentially just a pure play aerospace asset only. Hiccup
48:39
Speaker 11: there is that they will still have the long term
48:40
Speaker 11: care insurance liabilities, which leads some analysts to speculate could
48:44
Speaker 11: they try to pay somebody to take that off their hands,
48:47
Speaker 11: just to really clean up this story before you get
48:49
Speaker 11: to that aerospace focus. But there's a lot of appetite
48:53
Speaker 11: right now for aerospace companies when you think about, you know,
48:56
Speaker 11: just clean stories. Here in the megacap space, it's Boeing
49:00
Speaker 11: has its own issues, and then you have raytheon, but
49:03
Speaker 11: that has a very sizeable defense business. And if you
49:06
Speaker 11: really want commercial aftermarket, GE is the company.
49:09
Speaker 5: Yep.
49:10
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm looking at the a n R function tracks
49:12
Speaker 1: analyst ratings sixteen buys seven holds. So some support on
49:16
Speaker 1: the street. All right, you had a great column from
49:18
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. They really got my attention.
49:20
Speaker 1: Boeing can't seem to get out of its own way,
49:23
Speaker 1: and that kind of brings an issue we were talking
49:25
Speaker 1: about earlier today on this show. Matt and I were
49:27
Speaker 1: interviewing a gentleman who's into business of leasing big commercial
49:31
Speaker 1: aircraft to these commercial airliners, and he says business is
49:34
Speaker 1: good with raising rates, lots of demand, there's just no
49:37
Speaker 1: supply of aircraft. Talk to us about what the good
49:41
Speaker 1: folks at Boeing, And I guess the same thing can
49:43
Speaker 1: be said for Airbus. Where's the snag in getting some
49:47
Speaker 1: of these airplanes off the production floor?
49:50
Speaker 11: I mean, I think it's really all up and down
49:52
Speaker 11: the aerospace supply chain, which also includes ge as you know,
49:55
Speaker 11: one of the biggest makers of jet engines. And you know,
49:58
Speaker 11: you have to remember that the airlines in the US
50:01
Speaker 11: had a backstop where the US provided payroll support so
50:04
Speaker 11: that they can keep staff on the payroll for even
50:08
Speaker 11: during the depths of the pandemic. Now that hasn't necessarily
50:10
Speaker 11: always worked out the best for the airlines, but they
50:12
Speaker 11: did have that support that did not extend to the
50:14
Speaker 11: aerospace manufacturers. So they all laid off workers in mass
50:18
Speaker 11: by the thousands, and now demand is back and they
50:21
Speaker 11: are trying to rebuild that labor pipeline and push out
50:26
Speaker 11: all the parts and supplies needed to make these planes.
50:28
Speaker 11: But that it's not that easy because in many cases
50:31
Speaker 11: you're trying to make up for an experience gap. There's
50:33
Speaker 11: a lot of training involved in putting together airplanes. On
50:37
Speaker 11: the defense side, there's a lot of logistics around clearances,
50:41
Speaker 11: that kind of thing, and that's really been a hiccup.
50:43
Speaker 11: And then of course you have just the supply chain
50:45
Speaker 11: issues that everybody's been dealing with around semiconductor's commodities, parts,
50:49
Speaker 11: that sort of thing. Those issues seem to be getting
50:51
Speaker 11: better and it's really a labor challenge.
50:52
Speaker 5: At this point.
50:53
Speaker 1: So what is Boeing saying about its production output? Are
50:56
Speaker 1: they producing after capacity or are they still below capacity
51:00
Speaker 1: trying to add capacity? How did they kind of phrase
51:03
Speaker 1: out or you know, kind of how this is going
51:05
Speaker 1: to play out of the next couple of years.
51:07
Speaker 5: I guess for these companies, sure.
51:09
Speaker 11: Well, Boeing would like to produce its capacity. I mean,
51:11
Speaker 11: it has its own idiosyncratic issues where it had a
51:15
Speaker 11: lot of undelivered seven thirty seven Max jets sitting around
51:19
Speaker 11: because those planes were grounded for so long. Given the
51:21
Speaker 11: two crashes and you know now, and it's had a
51:25
Speaker 11: series of production issues as well that's affected its ability
51:28
Speaker 11: to deliver seven eighty seven Dreamliners. And then we have
51:32
Speaker 11: a new production issue with the seven thirty seven Max,
51:34
Speaker 11: which the company has said will temporarily at least lead
51:37
Speaker 11: it to pause deliveries now. CEO Dave Calhoun at the
51:41
Speaker 11: company's annual meeting said they still expect to increase output
51:45
Speaker 11: of seven thirty seven Max jets, but I think that
51:47
Speaker 11: the onus is on the company to prove that they
51:50
Speaker 11: can do that. And it's not clear at this point
51:53
Speaker 11: just how big of a deal this latest production snap
51:56
Speaker 11: it really is. We should get more details tomorrow when Boeing.
51:58
Speaker 5: Reports earnings reports tomorrow.
52:00
Speaker 1: Okay, so maybe we'll chaty ten Okay, just real quick,
52:04
Speaker 1: three M laying off some people. I'm used to seeing
52:06
Speaker 1: that from these tech companies out in Silicon Valley, but
52:08
Speaker 1: not the heart of America.
52:10
Speaker 5: Just thirty seconds, which.
52:11
Speaker 11: You should be used to seeing it from three M
52:13
Speaker 11: because this is the latest in a very long string
52:15
Speaker 11: of restructuring initiatives at this company that have really failed
52:18
Speaker 11: to have much of an impact. It's been talking for
52:21
Speaker 11: years about streamlining its operations, reorganizing its operating model, and
52:26
Speaker 11: you just do not see the payoff in the company's
52:29
Speaker 11: operating margins. Now. It does have, you know, its own
52:33
Speaker 11: separate issues in the legal world around legacy manufacturing of
52:37
Speaker 11: pfas and military ear plugs. That's been the biggest anchor
52:40
Speaker 11: on the stock. But I think that investors are also
52:42
Speaker 11: just very frustrated with where this company is operationally now.
52:45
Speaker 11: It was one of the more diverse industrial conglomerates that's
52:49
Speaker 11: still out there after all of the spinoffs and breakups
52:51
Speaker 11: that we've seen, and so that certainly, you know, leaves
52:54
Speaker 11: it a little bit more exposed to macro trends. It
52:57
Speaker 11: does cater to consumers more than your typical manufacturer those
53:00
Speaker 11: these days, and it's definitely seeing the pressure there. But
53:03
Speaker 11: I think there's a lot of well.
53:05
Speaker 1: We talked about the analyst support for ge not so
53:08
Speaker 1: much here for three M one by rating fourteen holds
53:12
Speaker 1: and five outright. So so whatever this company I management
53:16
Speaker 1: team is selling the street, it doesn't appear that at
53:18
Speaker 1: least the analyst community is buying it. Brook thanks so
53:20
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Brook Sutherland always a treat to
53:23
Speaker 1: get on the show because we love talking about industrial America.
53:25
Speaker 1: Brook Sutherland Industrial and m and a columnist for Bloomberg Opinion,
53:29
Speaker 1: joining us live here in our Bloomberg Conteractive Brokers studio.
53:31
Speaker 1: Lots moving on got earnings coming out all week. Busy,
53:36
Speaker 1: busy week. Busy's week actually for the dal Jones and
53:38
Speaker 1: for the SMP, so we'll stay on top of it.
53:40
Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg.
53:42
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can
53:45
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53:49
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Speaker 2: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three.
53:55
Speaker 5: And I'm Faull Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.
53:58
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54:01
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