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Episode 798: From Victim to Self-Empowered with Andrew Daniel · The Trauma Therapist

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All right, welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gamiferson.
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My mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible selves, to be
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human, to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer
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in who we are is more important than what we know, and this requires
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cultivating authenticity, genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn
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more about my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com.
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That's the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started. All right,
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here we go. So five four, three, two and one,
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our folks, welcome back to the podcast. I am very excited to have
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us. My guest today Andrew Daniel Andrew Welcome, Hi guys, thanks for
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having me. You are welcome. So. Andrew is an award winning author,
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spiritual teacher, and director at the Center for Cinesmatic Development. He's a
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founder of Cinesmatics, a feeling based therapy utilizing video, feedback and movement to
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assess and resolve stuck somatic, psychological and emotional patterns. This work is held
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online and in person internationally, from New York to London, Tuscany to Switzerland.
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His latest book Awaken to your True Self is recipient of the twenty twenty
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two Gold Novelist Book Awards. This definitive guide helps self aware entrepreneurs, artists,
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professionals, and leaders breakthrough stuck cycles and generally wake up. In addition,
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and I want to ask you about this, Andrew, you're also an
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active advisor to the official Alan Watts Organization. Pretty cool, all right,
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welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. All right, man,
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still be here? Awesome. Before we get going, share with our listeners
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where you're from originally and where you are currently. Well. I was born
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in central California, and I grew up in upstate New York, south of
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Buffalo, and I currently reside in Nashville, Tennessee. Okay, so let's
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get into this. How did you get into this? Fields, It's been
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a long journey. The short story of it was that when I was young,
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I was bullied and teased a lot hit warts on my hands, and
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that set in motion about at least a decade of dealing with bullying, teasing,
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being made fun of, sitting alone in lunch, just a lot of
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social and emotional angst trauma, and that set in motion a desire at about
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seventeen years old, to do whatever it takes to figure this out, to
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do whatever it takes to not want to kill myself, to not want to
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seek revenge, to not hate myself in the world and my life. And
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from there I was thrusted forth on about a fifteen year journey. And this
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was a journey of healing, of transformation, awakening, of personal development,
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of business development. I had a software company when I was eighteen. I
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wrote a particle effects and physics engine to create special effects, and so I
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ran that company and created that software. But during that time, my passion
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became more and more about the healing work, because I saw how much my
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life improved learning and growing and facing all of my internal demons, and so
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that eventually that software company eventually closed, the market changed, and I started
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on my journey of facilitating, of actually being somebody who was taking the stuff
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that I learned in my life and applying that to others and helping other people
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heal and break through what was going on in their life. So that's my
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story in a nutshell. Okay, that's I mean, even that little bit
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is really interesting. First of all, the whole bullying thing, I mean,
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I was bullied myself. You know a lot of times people easily just
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kind of dismiss that and say, well, you know, oh, you
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were bullied on some sord. It jacked me up. I mean, it
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really just impacted the trajectory of my life in many areas. But for you,
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you said kind of just offhandedly, you know, about taking revenge,
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about taking thinking about taking your life. So were those things that you actually
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were thinking about, you were thinking about committing suicides? Yeah? I mean
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I was bullied in teased to the point, you know, I was crying
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myself to sleep at night. They call it fomo now, we just called
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it back then. I just said I was a lovable no one liked me,
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no one wanted me, and it was it was probably not as bad
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as I thought it was then, but back then it was my whole life,
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and it was happening for ten years, and so it was it was
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really painful. Did you get help? Did you seek help? Did you
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get help? Did you tell you did you know? You know? My
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parents knew? Yeah? Okay, so let me change that. You know,
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my parents knew since I was young, and they helped once they realized
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after first and second grade that kids were making fun of me. Their parents
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were saying, don't touch that guy, You're gonna get warts. You know,
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all this silly stuff I told them. Eventually they had my warts.
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We tried to freeze them, we try to burn them, and eventually they
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use a laser to take them off. And you know, during this time,
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I was I didn't know this then, but during that time, I
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was really taking it personally. I was really feeling sorry for myself, and
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that was an origin of my victim mentality. Sure I was a victim to
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bullying, but I played my part in it as well. I didn't know
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it then, so I was complaining to my parents, and they did everything
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they could. They had no context, you know, they weren't bullied like
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this, and the teachers didn't help. And if I told on the kids
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it would make things worse. But my dad was really great. He said,
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you know, if if they punch you, you can punch them back,
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but you don't throw the first hit. And I was like, that's
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fair. Unfortunately, they never threw the hit, and so there was really
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no way for me to defend myself and to really claim that sense of power.
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So I really struggled with that. I even had teachers laugh at me.
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Not all of them, but some of them. And so we didn't
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have a lot of money. And it was actually a blessing in disguise because
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I think that if I was put on antidepressants, on any of these kind
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of pharmaceuticals, that would not have been a good thing for me personally.
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So yeah, we didn't really have the resources. I was very smart as
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well. I was very intelligent with a high IQ, and so we had
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a couple psychologists kind of evaluate me, like, he's really smart. We
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don't know what to do, and so they tried to put me into more
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advanced classes. I didn't want to do it because it just was more homework
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and work. I just wanted to play. So there was this conflict of
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being not fitting in intellectually, not fitting in physically emotionally, and with the
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bullying, the home life wasn't perfect. So there's a lot of stuff going
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on. And yeah, I didn't really say to my parents that I wanted
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to go in and shoot the school up or kill myself, but I sure
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fantasized it about it, and I'm sure thought about it, but I just
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I never acted upon it. I was just the truth is I was too
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much of a coward. It sounded way too painful. So it was all
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right, well, if I'm not going to do that and I have to
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be around, then I have to be willing to do whatever it takes to
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figure this out. So that really was that seventeen years old turning point where
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I've dedicated half of my life to this work. Is with that point you
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started to do what. I literally got on the computer and typed in how
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to be cool onto Google, how to get girls to like you, how
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to make friends. And it wasn't too successful, but what it did is
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that I, you know, I found some things. Looking back on it,
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it was not the best, but I did. I did find some
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things that got me different results. And what that does, what that did
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was give me hope. It guy. It showed me that that I could
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do something to change my life. I didn't have to stay a victim.
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I didn't just have to deal with the cards that were handed to me.
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I could do something about it. I could change how I felt, how
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I responded, how I talked, how I showed up in the world.
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With very very very basic self help books introductory ones how to win friends and
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influence people thinking were rich and some of these very classic self help books.
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But what they did was they they showed me that I could do something and
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I I no longer had to be at the effect of the world. I
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can be at a cause for my life. So you got to a point
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where you were like, you just set to out the computer and something's got
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to change. That led you to these books, which in turn gave you
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hope. How do things unfold from there? Well, from there I moved
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around a bit. I started my software company when I was eighteen years old,
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and that was entrepreneurship. No one in my family were entrepreneurs, were
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blue collar, were middle class, and I just had to learn how do
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you start a software company? I mean, this was two thousand and six,
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and this wasn't like this wasn't like, hey, welcome to YouTube.
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Do you want to make one thousand dollars a day on the internet. I
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had to figure this out. And there weren't frameworks right now. If you
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want to create software that you could like drag and drop templates, there was
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none of that. I had to learn how to code by hand. I
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had to learn how to code by hand. And so along with that learning
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of the software. I had to learn about business, and that was a
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perfect tie in with the personal development because there was a lot of well,
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how do you learn how to run a business? Well, how do you
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learn a successful business? Well, how do you market? Oh? Well,
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when I start to market, I'm coming across the limiting beliefs, I
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get afraid. Oh I'm not confident. Oh, work on that. So
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it all started really tying in together. And so that along with being an
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eighteen year old, I also wanted to get better with women, and so
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that was also another track of that of well how do you talk to women?
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How do you not be sad and scared empathetic because nobody likes you because
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for twenty years of your life you were at the bottom of the social food
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chain. So I was learning how to become a better person. I was
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learning how to interact with women and make friends, and I was learning entrepreneurship.
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And so that was like consumed my whole life during this time. Andrew,
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were you experiencing how did the effects of the bullying show up in your
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life? You talked about limiting bus What did that look like? Yeah?
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I was unlovable, I was unwanted, I had low self esteem. I
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was afraid people were judging me. Then I was judging other people, and
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then I tried to be superior to them. I was like, oh,
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well the jocks, the jocks are the bad guys. And so I abandoned
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athleticism and I like, oh well, mind over matter. So I started
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to rationalize, and it's like, well, it hurts really bad to be
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rejected, so let me, you know, become superior. Let me be
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smarter and have revenge of the nerds fantasies and talking with women. I was
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like, how could they possibly want me? And so there was I mean,
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it was just an astronomical out of things that came from twelve ten to
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twelve years of poor socializing in school. So what happens next? You start
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this the software business. You're starting to learn about being impacted and influenced and
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inspired and given hope with these books and knowledge, How do things unfold from
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there? Well, from there I started learning more I would call therapeutic more
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healing modality stuff. So I I was not a fan of school, so
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as you could imagine, being in school was terrible for me. So I
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didn't go the traditional route of education. Becoming a therapist a psychologist, social
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worker or anything like that. I did it all outside of school, and
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I started finding things like an LP, hypnotherapy, different alternative, more holistic
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ways of healing, and so as I got into those things, I was
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like, oh, like it blew my mind. Nobody taught me any of
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this stuff, and it really made a lot of sense. And so as
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a you know, I read more books, I took courses and seminars,
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and eventually I started to make the shift between just being a consumer a client
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of this work to realizing, oh, I'm actually really interested in doing this
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for other people. I want to help other people because this saved my life.
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You know, this stuff changed my life, and so that set me
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on a journey for about ten years. I was homeless twice. I eventually
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started teaching things around relationships and sexuality and spirituality that I was learning on this
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ten year journey. I said that I was homeless twice, living in my
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car in LA. My business shut down because the market changed. I was
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trying to make it in this field of being a coach, a consultant,
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more of a freelance facilitator, so to speak. And I had some amazing
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accomplishments and then I failed. I was struggling with scarcity and poverty, and
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I had a really rough time. So it was very confusing because here I
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was my software company had clients like Whole food, Samsung, Disney, Walmart,
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British Telecom, Sony Pictures, and I was also learning all of this
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spiritual and psychological and medicine and healing, all of these sort of life secrets
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to become the best person you could be, and yet my life was working
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less and less and less. So first of all, Andrew, I just
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really I want to say that I really appreciate you sharing all this. I
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mean, you were amazing. There's no doubt about it. Your story is
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fringing incredible. I mean what you went through, you know, however long
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that was ten years of bullying was nothing short nothing less than traumatic. Of
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course, it was as you were learning and diving into this literature and knowledge.
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Can you share with us specifically something that helped you and how it helped
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you? Well, the biggest thing, and the first thing was going from
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being at the effect of life to the cause of life, going from a
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victim mentality to a responsible, empowered mentality. That was the first thing that
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literally said, oh, my God, you're telling me that I could be
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the cause of my life rather than being blown around by the wind of life.
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And from there, without that piece, none of the rest of the
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stuff could have happened. So that was probably the first and foremost thing of
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Oh, I'm not a victim. Things happened to me that I couldn't control.
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Absolutely. Was I a victim to that stuff? Absolutely? But am
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I identified as a victim? Do I live my life in this victim mentality
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blaming everyone else for what's happening to me? No? Well I was.
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I was for twenty one years. But after that I had to start taking
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responsibility even if things were out of my control. I said, all right,
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well, I can control how I respond to this. I can control
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how I'm perceiving this. What if I'm distorting all of this? What if
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these people that are laughing at me aren't laughing at me and I'm just so
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scared and I take it so personally that I then turn it into whatever it
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is, an attack. And so that really was probably one of the most
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important things that I've learned that set me on the path of reclaiming all the
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power I gave away throughout my life. And as you progressed in this learning,
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you said you wanted to share and teach and help others. What gave
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you the inspiration the power? How did you? How were you able to
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turn it around and say, you know what, not only can I help
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people or I want to help people, but I think I can do it
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because there's a big difference, right. Yeah, Well that leads me to
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the rest of my story and where we come here today. So, as
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I said, despite doing all this transformational work and work in therapy and psychology,
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I mean, I was studying quantum physics, I was starting everything I
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could, and despite my successes, I was homeless and I couldn't I couldn't
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make it work. I couldn't do that. I couldn't figure out how to
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make a living from helping people. I could figure out a living how to
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have a software company. But I didn't want to be behind the screen my
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whole life. I wanted to do this, and I tried to do it,
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and I failed at doing it. So this eventually led me to what
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I'm doing now, which is very, very different than those things. So
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what ended up happening was I had an encounter with a mentor who who had
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it an approach to healing of transformation that revolved around moving in your body and
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recording that. And so I had an experience with this man's who is passed
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Who's passed away? And what I saw was nothing short of terrifying. What
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I started to see was all of the stuff that I learned in my head
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wasn't actually embodied within me. And so what I mean by this is I
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had this image in my mind that I was a great person, that I
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learned all the stuff, that I was smart, that I was outgoing,
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that I was friendly, that I was gracious, that I was generous,
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all the stuff. And then I see myself on video and I saw someone
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who was passive, aggressive, narcissistic, who was manipulative, who was scared,
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who was shameful, who was hiding, and I said, oh my
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god, this is why my life isn't working. And so that sent me
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on the last part of my journey for about seven years, and that led
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me to actually breaking through all of that stuff, to doing all of this
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shadow work, going into the depth of facing the darkest parts of myself,
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to eventually forming what I call cinesomatics. And this is the work I do
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now, so that big breakthrough from I wanted to do it. I tried
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to help people. I thought I knew it, but it wasn't working because
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I couldn't make the business work because I was also homeless trying to do it.
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And who's going to hire someone to, you know, who doesn't have
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their life together too? A very successful business. I have an award winning
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best selling book, I have a healing modality called Cinesomatics. I'm making a
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lot of money, I have a great relationship. My life is finally working.
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And from that place, I've been able to help hundreds of people personally
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and tens of thousands of people through my books and my work. And that
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all came about through the work that I do now, through realizing and recognizing
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that it's not enough to figure it out in your head. It has to
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happen in the body as well. All right, we're going to dive into
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that, but before we do, you mentioned that you had an encounter with
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a mentor who puts you on video, and from that you what's exactly were
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you doing on the video that enabled you to see all these horrible, less
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instellar things about yourself? Yeah, so let me let me first talk about
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cinesmatics, so because that'll that'll okat the picture, Okay. So cinesmatics is
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my approach to transformation that is based off of video. So that's the cinepart.
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So sinna also comes from movement, right, kinesiology, movement, sinna,
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kinna and video cinematography moving pictures right. So you have that element and
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then you have somatics, which is of the body. And so what we
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do is we have people move so it could be anything. We have people
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dancing, we have people shaking their hands, we have people expressing archetypes through
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their body. Anything. I have a workshop where people walk on a slack
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line. It's this tightrope and we film it. And so what we do
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is we get people moving. Rather than talking about our problems, we just
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get people to move in their body. Then we film it. We have
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very high end cinema equipment that we film this with. Then we have that
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client and myself or the group sit down and we play the video back.
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And what I do is I go into more of a feeling place. So
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rather than a heady, analytical place, I go down into more of an
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empathic feeling place. And so I start to give them feedback about how their
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movements feel, and they get to see it for themselves on video. So
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it's a very remarkable process because you're getting a feedback, there's a feedback loop.
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You're getting evidence for the feedback that I'm saying. So rather than it
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being a guru, an expert, some authority that you just have to trust
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that they know what they're doing, you're actually getting the proof for yourself in
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your own body on video. So that's a similar process that I went through
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myself. So would the prompt, for example, be okay, guy move
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or what would the prompt be for me to move? Great? Great question.
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We have stuff for everything, but one of the most basic ones that
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I do is archetypes. So what I discovered is that what we know in
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psychology that the mind represents things and pictures, sounds, feelings, senses,
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things like that. So if I say, think of an elephant, think
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of pizza, think of a pop there's maybe a smell of flavor, an
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image, a sound that comes to mind. This is non What I discovered
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by doing this work is that the body has that as well. The body
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has its own somatic representation. Sometimes it matches the mind and sometimes it's different,
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and if it's different, in every single instance the client has trouble with
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that thing in their life. So understanding this, one of the prompts could
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be all right, guy, so what's what's one of the things that you
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struggle with most in your life? Like a one or two word kind of
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concept worthy, worthiness, perfect, feeling unworthy? Great? So what I
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would do is I would say, all right, guy, in your body,
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find the feeling of unworthiness or worthiness. We probably do both, And
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I would say, with movement in your body, without speaking, show me
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worthiness. What does that look like? Are you going to inviting me to
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do this right now? If you would like, you don't have to,
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but it's just an example of the I would I'm not going to do it.
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I would love to do it, but I'm not gonna do it right
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now. Sure, but that would be that would be an example of what
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it would do. And so you can imagine that you have a camera right
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and you're in front of this camera doing this movement. So it's very vulnerable,
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it's very exposing, and you could probably imagine that right away stuff starts
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coming up, you start feeling stuff, and from that I start reflecting back
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what it is. I would say, all right, so when you're moving
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your hands, you're moving your body showing me worthiness. Well what does this
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feel like? Well, notice, all of a sudden, all of the
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emotion starts coming up their shame or guilt or sadness or remorse, regret,
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and then that starts the whole healing process and the client and you get to
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see that for yourself on video, and that feedback loop starts the transformation.
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Wow, this is very intense. Yes, it's very intense, and I
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can see how obviously this opens up the whole Pandor's box of trauma and so
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forth. But for example, the prompt of okay, guy, show us
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worthiness and then an unworthiness, how do you contrast and work both of those
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together to bring out Yeah? Great, great question. So, for example,
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one of the things that we discovered is something called reverse wiring. This
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is evident when you see people that keep attracting abuse of relationships. Right,
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we know some guy some girl who keeps attracting the same kind of partner that
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treats them poorly, and it's like, why don't you just find someone good?
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And they think they are. That's an example of someone who considers love
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abuse and abuse love. They probably grew up in a household where they were
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abused, so that abuse feels like home. To them, it feels like
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love, and their nervous system literally gets what we call reverse wired. And
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an easier example is, let's say something like giving. So if I were
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to say, show me giving, what would that look like? And someone
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would usually like, let's say, put their hands out. Well, that's
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properly wired. Giving looks and feels like something coming from you to somebody else.
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If instead of putting my hands out and offering something or giving in that
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direction, if I took my hands out and pulled them into me and close
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my fists and brought them into my chest, that looks more like taking or
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something like that. And if the prompt was show me giving, and someone
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did a motion that looked like taking, that's reversed wired. Now that person
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in their life, if you ask them what giving and receiving was, they
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would give a probably an accurate definition if you ask them with words. But
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having them do it in their body reveals the reality of how they interface through
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that concept in the world. And so you can see that when people come
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in and they say I'm doing all of the right things. I'm being a
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good person, I'm being kind of being generous, and I still get treated
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like shit. Well they come on, I say, well, show me
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those things, and without a doubt, every single time, there's massive dysfunction
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in those things. And it becomes very clear why that person who keeps doing
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what they think is the right thing keeps getting the wrong results. It's because
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they ruin see exactly, ye, authenticity, inauthenticity, congruencies coming up for
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me, This is incredible. So what it saved my life? Yeah,
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it's amazing. What specifically, how did it save your life? Oh?
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Well, I was homeless twice and I couldn't get out of it, and
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there was I was smart, So I was conning myself. I was lying
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to myself. I without seeing my own shadow, without seeing this stuff in
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my own body. I was so trapped in my head. I was so
30:34
caught up in fantasies. I was so caught up in delusion. I literally
30:41
was homeless, going around doing these affirmations of I'm so wealthy, I'm so
30:45
abundant, And I remember having to transfer thirty cents from one bank account to
30:52
another to afford a can of soup one night while I'm pretending I'm abundant,
30:57
I was in complete denial and in fantasy, and without seeing the truth for
31:04
myself on video, I would have who knows where I would have been.
31:10
It would have not been good. Okay, so let's just bring everyone to
31:18
your your website here is cinesumatics dot org, c I N E, S
31:23
O M A T I CS dot org. We'll have that linked up at
31:26
the show notes page at the Trauma Papers podcast dot com. So how do
31:32
you work with people? What do you offer? Yes? So the first
31:37
step really is my book. So I wrote a book. I got it
31:41
right here. It's called Awaken to your True Self while You're still Stuck and
31:45
how to break Through. And this was the book that I wrote after the
31:51
three to five years of doing this work for myself. So the process that
31:56
I work with people with, I've gone through it all myself. I do
32:00
this stuff every day for myself. So one of the problems I've had with
32:04
a lot of therapists and teachers and trainers and facilitators coaches, they don't do
32:10
it themselves. You can go to school and learn all of this stuff and
32:15
have all of this stuff still running, all this dysfunction, all this trauma,
32:19
all this lemining, believes negative emotions, all these things. And for
32:22
this process to work, you actually have to have done the healing process yourself,
32:30
or else you can't see it. So, for example, what happens
32:32
is if you are codependent and you don't realize it, your clients that are
32:38
codependent that come in, you're going to enable them because you think they're doing
32:43
the right thing, and so you're going to keep a codependent client stock if
32:47
you're also codependent. So I had to go through all of this process myself,
32:52
and through that journey, I realized there was a set of things that
32:59
helped me bring through when none of the prior eight years of therapy and transformation
33:06
self help work failed. And so I wrote this book, Waken to Your
33:09
Teue Self, to share these concepts that were the things that actually broke me
33:15
through even after eight years of therapy, healing and transformational work. So long
33:22
answer to answer your question how I work with people is first, I have
33:25
people read the book because that book lays the foundation of a lot of the
33:30
principles we use in my work. And so how I work with people is
33:37
one on one. So we do I have an assessment. It's an embodiment
33:40
assessment. That's the first thing people will do. So in that, we
33:45
do some movements. You get a taste of cines, somatics. We get
33:50
on a call. You don't have to share much, share a little bit
33:52
about yourself. I have you start moving, We film the movement, we
33:57
sit down, we play it back, and I tell you all of the
34:00
things that are running your life. And for most people it's a very wonderful.
34:07
I want to, I want to, I want to play. Why
34:08
should I trust you to tell me what's what's what's what you're seeing in my
34:15
life? Great question? You don't. You don't have to trust me.
34:19
Because we have the video. You'll get to see it all for yourself.
34:23
That that's that's the magic of it. And Devil's advocate to myself also is
34:29
you know I've been doing this for fifteen years. I've dedicated my life to
34:31
it. I've gone from homeless, suicidal, almost homicidal revenge feeling to having
34:38
real joy. I'm out of suffering. I've helped hundreds of people do this.
34:44
I have countless testimonials, so there is proof evidence. My bank account
34:49
reflects it, my relationships affect it. My body reflects it, my life
34:53
reflects it, my work reflects it. I've I've ensured that I spent and
35:01
dedicated my life to being somebody who actually embodies this stuff before I teach it,
35:08
and I continue to do so that's awesome, all right. So someone
35:15
who I mean, I can just imagine a lot of listeners like myself,
35:17
are like, this is incredible. The book is Wake into your True Self.
35:23
We'll have that linked up people who are interested in working with you.
35:28
You recommend that they will required that they read the book first and then what
35:31
yees? So if you go to Andrew Daniel dot org. That's my personal
35:36
website, okay, and there is a link to the book, so you
35:39
order the book hardcover, paperback, audiobook, kindle, whatever you want.
35:45
It's a big book. It's about thirteen and a half hours of an audiobook
35:51
that I narrate myself. It's about four hundred and thirty pages, so it's
35:55
a substantial book. If you read that book and you're like, this is
35:59
a exactly what I need, then you just go to my website and click
36:02
Embodiment Assessment and there you can schedule a two hour cinismatic session with me.
36:09
And you'll get to experience this for yourself. From there, I have workshops,
36:14
we have retreats, we have long term programs, and it's it becomes
36:20
the beginning of a whole new way of moving through the world. Wow,
36:24
Andrew, what's the best way for people to reach out to you? Is
36:28
it cinesmatics dot org or and Andrew Daniel dot org. So, Cinisomatics is
36:35
all about the actual modality, So you just get a lot of information.
36:38
You get to see demos testimonials about the actual process. And my website has
36:45
my book and you know other stuff that I do. Okay, awesome,
36:47
well sir, love to have you back at a later time. You are
36:53
so inspiring and really appreciate you taking the time to share your journey. Man,
37:00
this is really exciting looking forward to getting this out there. Thank you
37:06
so much. I appreciate that. All right, thank you and thanks for
37:07
yeah, thanks for the great questions. Due. I appreciate that. All
37:10
right, take care, right,