Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous brainiac college student's LIFE DESTROYED...BY HER OWN MOM LEADING DOUBLE LIFE

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Gorgeous brainiac college student's LIFE DESTROYED...BY HER OWN MOM LEADING DOUBLE LIFE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: A gorgeous young co ed. She heads off to college,
0:12
Speaker 1: but she finds out that things had gone very very wrong.
0:19
Speaker 1: Bit by bit, day by day, someone is chipping away
0:23
Speaker 1: at us criminally, and we have no idea. Then you
0:27
Speaker 1: find out when you can't get a phone line, when
0:29
Speaker 1: you can't get cabled, when you can't rent an apartment,
0:33
Speaker 1: you're trashed because someone has stolen your ID, your credit ID.
0:46
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I remember when I left
0:53
Speaker 1: home to go to college. I left what a lot
0:57
Speaker 1: of people would call nowhere out an unincorporated bib County
1:01
Speaker 1: in the middle of Georgia, where there was nothing to
1:05
Speaker 1: see except tall pine trees and soybean fills as far
1:08
Speaker 1: as the eye could see, but it was everything to me.
1:14
Speaker 1: I was driven down to then Valdosta State College on
1:18
Speaker 1: the Florida line and left unceremoniously. I didn't know. My
1:25
Speaker 1: mom cried the whole way home. But there I was,
1:28
Speaker 1: with my locker in a couple of bags, and entered
1:33
Speaker 1: the oldest and ugliest dorm on campus and started college
1:37
Speaker 1: life with somebody I didn't even know as a roommate.
1:39
Speaker 1: But it turned out just fine. That is for a
1:43
Speaker 1: lot of people some of the happiest memories of their
1:46
Speaker 1: life when they start all over in a brand new
1:50
Speaker 1: place at college. I mean to see grace. This is
1:54
Speaker 1: crime stories. Thank you for being with us, and that's
1:57
Speaker 1: what it should have been for a gorgeous young co
2:01
Speaker 1: ed Axton bets Hamilton. She heads off to college, but
2:09
Speaker 1: she finds out in her trek to college that things
2:13
Speaker 1: had gone very, very wrong. Listen. Axton bets Hamilton was
2:19
Speaker 1: nineteen when she first requested a copy of her credit report.
2:22
Speaker 1: She expected a high score, but got exactly the opposite.
2:26
Speaker 1: My credit report was ten pages long, full of fraudulent
2:30
Speaker 1: credit card entries and associated collection agency entries. She learned
2:35
Speaker 1: her identity had been stolen years earlier, when she was
2:38
Speaker 1: just eleven, but the biggest shock was who stole it?
2:41
Speaker 1: Joining me right now, the author of The Less People
2:46
Speaker 1: Know about Us, the Better, it's Axton bets Hamilton joining
2:50
Speaker 1: us and speaking out. Forensic psychiatrist doctor Daniel Bober and
2:55
Speaker 1: renowned attorney and author of Millennial's Guide to the Universe.
2:59
Speaker 1: Now Dadealie Gold, Guys, thank you for being with us.
3:02
Speaker 1: You know. To Axton, your book is tremendous. I've got
3:07
Speaker 1: it right. Here in front of me, and I learned
3:10
Speaker 1: so much. I remember in law school taking out massive
3:15
Speaker 1: loans to pay for tuition and books everything else I
3:20
Speaker 1: had to make on my own. My parents paid rent
3:26
Speaker 1: for a place near the law school, and that was it.
3:29
Speaker 1: And if it had not been for those loans, I
3:31
Speaker 1: couldn't have gone to law school or bought my books
3:34
Speaker 1: or anything. So acton Bets Hamilton explained to me, when
3:38
Speaker 1: you first realized something was wrong. I moved off campus
3:43
Speaker 1: my sophomore year, and I was so excited to get
3:46
Speaker 1: my own place and get out of the dorms. And
3:48
Speaker 1: I found a place that would allow me to have
3:51
Speaker 1: my cats that I had had since I was ten
3:53
Speaker 1: and twelve that were back at home, and I called
3:57
Speaker 1: the electric company to establish service, and over the phone
4:01
Speaker 1: they told me the date and time they would be
4:03
Speaker 1: there to establish service. And I thought things were moving
4:06
Speaker 1: along and was really excited to have this little apartment
4:11
Speaker 1: of my own. And a few days later, the electric
4:14
Speaker 1: company sends me a letter that says, due to your
4:17
Speaker 1: credit score, we're requiring one hundred dollars deposit to establish service,
4:22
Speaker 1: and there was a number to call at the bottom
4:25
Speaker 1: of the letter to get a copy of my credit report,
4:27
Speaker 1: and I thought at the time it was because I
4:29
Speaker 1: didn't have credit. I knew enough about credit to know
4:32
Speaker 1: that having no credit could be just as detrimental as
4:37
Speaker 1: having bad credit. And I thought that's all it was.
4:39
Speaker 1: Because I was nineteen, I really shouldn't have had any credits.
4:43
Speaker 1: And I called the number at the bottom of the letter,
4:46
Speaker 1: just because I was curious about what was on a
4:50
Speaker 1: credit report. I'd never seen one, I'd never heard of
4:52
Speaker 1: such a thing, and I just wanted to see what
4:55
Speaker 1: this credit bureau had in a file on me. I
4:58
Speaker 1: was just curious, you know, I had no inclination that
5:03
Speaker 1: anything was wrong at this point, and I, you know,
5:06
Speaker 1: I called and gave them my information. They said they'd
5:09
Speaker 1: give me or they'd send me my credit report, and
5:12
Speaker 1: I forgot about it for six weeks, you know what
5:15
Speaker 1: about my life. Moved into the apartment with going to
5:18
Speaker 1: class is doing my thing, and I stepped off the
5:22
Speaker 1: city bus one day outside of my apartment complex and
5:26
Speaker 1: our mailboxes were on the outer wall, and I saw
5:30
Speaker 1: this large Manila envelope sticking out of my mailbox, folded over,
5:34
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, that looks really official, and
5:38
Speaker 1: points still a long day at school, and I really
5:40
Speaker 1: don't want to deal with that, but I did, and
5:43
Speaker 1: I went to the mailbox and I saw it was
5:45
Speaker 1: from the credit bureau and it was a really thick envelope.
5:50
Speaker 1: And at the time, I thought to myself, Wow, credit
5:53
Speaker 1: reports must come with a lot of instructions and a
5:56
Speaker 1: lot of disclosures, and they must be really difficult to read,
6:00
Speaker 1: because I shouldn't really have much of a credit report.
6:03
Speaker 1: And I walked into my apartment, sat on the arm
6:07
Speaker 1: of my couch, open the envelope and learned very quickly
6:11
Speaker 1: that credit reports do not come with a lot of
6:14
Speaker 1: instructions and a lot of disclosures. They're not difficult to read.
6:20
Speaker 1: But rather, my credit report was ten pages long, and
6:25
Speaker 1: it was full of fraudulent credit cards entries and associated
6:30
Speaker 1: collection agency entry. Okaya, whoa, whoa whoa white white, white white,
6:33
Speaker 1: stop right there. You're just eighteen ish years old. How
6:38
Speaker 1: can all of these fraudulent entries be on your credit report?
6:43
Speaker 1: To Natalie Gold with me, renowned attorney and author of
6:46
Speaker 1: Millennials Guide to the Universe. I think they need a guide,
6:50
Speaker 1: Batalie Gold, Thank you, Natalie. Question, how can a bad
6:56
Speaker 1: credit report ruin your life, especially when you just get started.
7:01
Speaker 1: Let me count the ways. As a man much smarter
7:04
Speaker 1: than me said, Look, credit, whether we like it or not,
7:08
Speaker 1: is a parameter of which society getting as you know,
7:13
Speaker 1: getting a rental property, owning property at all. That's what
7:17
Speaker 1: we're based on. So of course a terrible credit score
7:21
Speaker 1: can negatively impact us in every way, whether it be
7:24
Speaker 1: that you can't get a car in a lease, or
7:28
Speaker 1: that the amount you're paying is two to three times
7:31
Speaker 1: what otherwise would be. And Nancy, you know, hearing acts
7:33
Speaker 1: and story is so heart wrenching. And I am not
7:39
Speaker 1: so surprised because I see clients in in my line
7:44
Speaker 1: of work every day that thinks that they can do
7:47
Speaker 1: and they sometimes are just a denial of what they
7:51
Speaker 1: can do to their kids because they feel that they've
7:53
Speaker 1: got these kids into existence. They can do what they want,
7:56
Speaker 1: and they can open accounts in their name, they can
7:58
Speaker 1: transfer profit to their name to protect themselves. I mean,
8:02
Speaker 1: and a lot of these clients I have don't even
8:05
Speaker 1: think there's something wrong with this, right, So we're all going,
8:09
Speaker 1: We're all going about our business not realizing that bit
8:12
Speaker 1: by bit, day by day, someone is chipping away at
8:16
Speaker 1: us criminally and we have no idea. Then you find
8:20
Speaker 1: out when you can't get a phone line, when you
8:22
Speaker 1: can't get cabled, when you can't rent an apartment. You're
8:26
Speaker 1: trashed because someone has stolen your ID, your credit ID,
8:32
Speaker 1: not your driver's license in your wallet or your Social
8:34
Speaker 1: Security card that you've got stashed away and your underwear drawer.
8:38
Speaker 1: But your credit is destroyed and it can ruin your life.
8:42
Speaker 1: You know, the other day, I was taking the twins
8:45
Speaker 1: up to go hiking, all right, and John David started
8:49
Speaker 1: singing this in the back seat. This is not an ad.
8:52
Speaker 1: This is what John Davis started singing in the back seat. Listen. Well,
8:55
Speaker 1: I was shopping for a new car, which one's me,
8:57
Speaker 1: a co convertible or an SUV? Too bad? I didn't
9:01
Speaker 1: know my credit was whack as now I'm driving off
9:03
Speaker 1: a lot into use of compact f r E. That's
9:06
Speaker 1: Bells Free Credit dot dot com. Baby, yeah, their ads
9:10
Speaker 1: on my TV. Thought about going but was too lazy.
9:13
Speaker 1: Now instead of looking flying rolling fat, my legs are
9:15
Speaker 1: sticking to the final M. My posse's getting laughed at.
9:18
Speaker 1: F r EE. That's Bells Free Credit Report dot com. Baby. Okay, yeah.
9:24
Speaker 1: Then my son was singing that and he's elone. I said, John, David,
9:28
Speaker 1: do you even know what a credit report is? He
9:30
Speaker 1: said no, and then he kept singing creditreport dot com baby,
9:34
Speaker 1: something like that. By the time we were at the
9:37
Speaker 1: hiking spot, I knew the whole thing by hard climb
9:50
Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. But it's not just about getting
9:57
Speaker 1: a car. It's not just about straightening up some white
10:03
Speaker 1: collar crime. I remembered distinctly Natalie Gold, attorney and author
10:08
Speaker 1: of Millennials, A Guide to the Universe. I was looking
10:13
Speaker 1: at a condo to be close to the courthouse and stupid, stupid,
10:19
Speaker 1: and I was a prosecutor, a brand new prosecutor. But
10:22
Speaker 1: I left my pocketbook in the car. I wasn't in
10:26
Speaker 1: the condo for twenty minutes. I came out my car
10:30
Speaker 1: Winday was bashed. In My pocketbook, which had my Social
10:33
Speaker 1: Security card in it, which was also stupid, was gone,
10:37
Speaker 1: and I couldn't believe it. Along with I think my badge.
10:43
Speaker 1: I still had my badge on me, my goal badge
10:47
Speaker 1: as a prosecutor, but everything else was gone, credit cards,
10:50
Speaker 1: driver's license, social security, the works. It was about six
10:55
Speaker 1: months later I learned it somehow, and I a Nigerian
11:01
Speaker 1: fraud ring had created a new Nancy Grace identity in Chicago,
11:07
Speaker 1: and I gave a statement to a prosecutor over the
11:11
Speaker 1: phone and they were prosecuted. But people create Natalie Gold
11:17
Speaker 1: a whole new identity. It's you out there in cyberspace, absolutely, Nancy.
11:25
Speaker 1: And the scariest thing today is you know that story
11:29
Speaker 1: that you told that happened to you is devastating, and
11:34
Speaker 1: it's something that at least you know what's happened. You
11:37
Speaker 1: know that your car was broken into, you know that
11:39
Speaker 1: these things were stolen. And today's modern day technology, I mean,
11:45
Speaker 1: they don't even have to go to those lens. They
11:48
Speaker 1: can just be sitting on their computer, very nice, drinking
11:52
Speaker 1: their cup of coffee as that go in and get
11:56
Speaker 1: are what we call them business PII personally identifiable information
12:00
Speaker 1: and from that and we could not even know. They
12:04
Speaker 1: could take our social security number, they could take our
12:08
Speaker 1: names and addresses, they could take so many things and
12:11
Speaker 1: pretend to be us. And today's social media society, where
12:16
Speaker 1: your reputation can be busted in ten seconds or less,
12:20
Speaker 1: we really have to be so careful. And Nancy, to
12:23
Speaker 1: your point, It wasn't stupid what you did. It was
12:27
Speaker 1: just careless. And a lot of us listeners, you know,
12:30
Speaker 1: we do careless things every single day. But I think
12:34
Speaker 1: that this story really is about how do you take
12:38
Speaker 1: the precautions to protect ourselves? Because I'll tell you, Nancy,
12:41
Speaker 1: in my line of work, as in the state attorney
12:43
Speaker 1: and the wealth attorney, the biggest thing in my mind
12:48
Speaker 1: is when someone Heaven's go bid dies, sixty four percent
12:52
Speaker 1: of people die without a Well, okay, this money is
12:55
Speaker 1: just sitting in the bank waiting to be taken by
12:57
Speaker 1: a beneficiary. So be states have to do is stick
13:02
Speaker 1: around who is that beneficiary and going pretend to be
13:06
Speaker 1: them at the bank and get hundreds of thousands of dollars.
13:09
Speaker 1: And if you think I'm kidding, there's billions of dollars
13:12
Speaker 1: with the bee over the United States and unclaimed funds
13:15
Speaker 1: that people don't even know about. And to me, that
13:20
Speaker 1: is something you know, going into experstorian even what happened
13:24
Speaker 1: to you? But what about when you know the faith
13:28
Speaker 1: first requested a copy of her credit report, she expected
13:31
Speaker 1: a high score but got exactly the opposite. My credit
13:35
Speaker 1: report was ten pages long full of fraudulent credit card
13:39
Speaker 1: entries and associated collection agency entries. She learned her identity
13:44
Speaker 1: had been stolen years earlier, when she was just eleven.
13:47
Speaker 1: But the biggest shock was who stolen her own mother?
13:51
Speaker 1: And not only did she steal my identity, she stole
13:54
Speaker 1: my father's identity as well as my grandfather's identity. She
13:58
Speaker 1: ruined her own credit and then moved on to ours.
14:02
Speaker 1: Axton discovered it after her mother had died, joining me
14:05
Speaker 1: right now. The author of an incredible book, The Less
14:08
Speaker 1: People Know About Us, It's Axton bets Hamilton, forensic psychiatrist,
14:14
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober and attorney, an author of Millennial's Guide
14:18
Speaker 1: to the Universe, Natalie Gold to Axton bets Hamilton. So
14:23
Speaker 1: you're trying to start your life and you can't get
14:26
Speaker 1: anything done because you have a horrible, horrible credit rating,
14:31
Speaker 1: and you find that your identity has been totally hacked.
14:36
Speaker 1: But you never suspected the woman you trusted the most
14:40
Speaker 1: in your life. Your mother is the one that stole
14:44
Speaker 1: your identity and wrecked your life. Axton, when did you
14:49
Speaker 1: realize who was behind your misfortune? I realized it was
14:54
Speaker 1: mom after she passed away in twenty thirteen. So from
15:00
Speaker 1: the time that I discovered I was a victim of
15:02
Speaker 1: identity theft, and so I found out that she was
15:08
Speaker 1: the perpetrator. Was twelve years Oh, my stars, I just asked,
15:14
Speaker 1: and when you how did you realize first of all
15:17
Speaker 1: that it was your mother. Well, it was thirteen days
15:21
Speaker 1: after my mom had passed away. My dad was in
15:24
Speaker 1: an outbuilding on their property where a mom had stored
15:29
Speaker 1: different things, and he was going through a file box
15:33
Speaker 1: and he found a credit card statement in my name
15:36
Speaker 1: that had been ran over limit back in two thousand
15:40
Speaker 1: and one. And he called me and he was furious
15:44
Speaker 1: with me because I had ran a credit card over
15:47
Speaker 1: the limit in two thousand and one and he said,
15:51
Speaker 1: you know, what were you thinking? We raised you better
15:54
Speaker 1: than that. And I said, well, whoa, I didn't what
15:57
Speaker 1: are you talking about? And he said, well, don't you
16:01
Speaker 1: whe to me. I have the credit card statement in
16:03
Speaker 1: my hand and I said, well, what credit card is it?
16:06
Speaker 1: And he told me and I said, well, Dad, that
16:09
Speaker 1: was one of the credit cards that was taken out
16:11
Speaker 1: in my name. Is part of the identity theft. What's
16:13
Speaker 1: mom doing with that? And he said, well, I don't know,
16:16
Speaker 1: but it's in here in the file with your birth certificate,
16:19
Speaker 1: and my blood ran pold because I had my birth certificate.
16:23
Speaker 1: And also there was no logical reason for a credit
16:26
Speaker 1: card statement and my birth certificate to be in the
16:29
Speaker 1: same filefold with me. As Axton bets Hamilton, author of
16:33
Speaker 1: The Less People Know About Us on Amazon, describing the moment,
16:40
Speaker 1: she says her blood ran cold. Axton, why did you
16:45
Speaker 1: get that chill when you saw quote your birth certificate.
16:50
Speaker 1: I saw my birth certificate that was in that file.
16:56
Speaker 1: It was a certified copy of my birth certificate from
16:59
Speaker 1: the health department that was issued on June seventh of
17:02
Speaker 1: two thousand. I didn't live at home on June seventh
17:06
Speaker 1: of two thousand. I was taking summer classes in college.
17:08
Speaker 1: I couldn't have gotten that birth birth certificate. So what
17:14
Speaker 1: likely happened is that mom went to the county Health
17:17
Speaker 1: department requested a certified copy of my birth certificate, likely
17:21
Speaker 1: because when she applied for the credit card in two thousands,
17:27
Speaker 1: when the credit card company checked my credit, they questioned
17:31
Speaker 1: the address. You know, they most likely thought this could
17:33
Speaker 1: be fraudulent because at that time my address would have
17:37
Speaker 1: been my college address, not the address back at home
17:40
Speaker 1: two hours away, and they likely sent a letter saying
17:45
Speaker 1: we need additional proof of your identity, and that birth
17:48
Speaker 1: certificate was probably part of that proof for mom to say, no,
17:52
Speaker 1: I'm really accident, and you know this is legitimately her
17:56
Speaker 1: credit card application and please send it. You know this
17:59
Speaker 1: is shocked to me. This information for those of you
18:03
Speaker 1: just joining us, is so disturbing and so shocking. Crime
18:21
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Welcome back, guys, I Nancy Grace,
18:28
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us with us Accident Bets Hamilton,
18:30
Speaker 1: Doctor Daniel Bober and Natalie Gold Accident. It's hard for
18:34
Speaker 1: people to get their mind around the fact that your mom,
18:38
Speaker 1: unbeknownst to you, stole your ID, her dad's ID, her
18:43
Speaker 1: grandfather's ID in order to rack up bills. Builds for
18:48
Speaker 1: what I wish I knew that is, that's part of
18:51
Speaker 1: the mystery. We know that over the twenty years that
18:55
Speaker 1: the identity that was taking place between all three of
18:59
Speaker 1: our identity these and there's at least six hundred thousand
19:03
Speaker 1: dollars approximately that has either been misappropriated or it's just
19:08
Speaker 1: plain missing. Most of it, I shouldn't say most. A
19:11
Speaker 1: large portion of that roughly one hundred and fifty thousand
19:15
Speaker 1: dollars is just missing from the last two and a
19:22
Speaker 1: half years of her life. Axon's parents' identity have been
19:26
Speaker 1: stolen when she was a little girl, and at eighteen,
19:30
Speaker 1: she discovers her own identity was stolen when she was
19:34
Speaker 1: just eleven, that somebody racked up five hundred thousand dollars
19:41
Speaker 1: in credit card debt. But what she did not know
19:45
Speaker 1: was the thief was with her all along. The thief
19:51
Speaker 1: was there when she graduated. The thief was there. It
19:55
Speaker 1: was her own mother. With me, Professor of Consumer Studies
20:02
Speaker 1: at Eastern Illinois University describing what happened. Now, you were
20:07
Speaker 1: running an apartment trying to get electric service, but then
20:11
Speaker 1: the electric company since you a letter saying you had
20:13
Speaker 1: to put down one hundred bucks deposit because of you're
20:15
Speaker 1: a horrible credit score, and then you get a ten
20:19
Speaker 1: page credit report. Acton when you realized that your mom
20:26
Speaker 1: was the one that had stolen your identity. What went
20:30
Speaker 1: through your mind? Well, it was a stead of conflicting
20:35
Speaker 1: emotions because as you know, a student, and you know,
20:42
Speaker 1: as an undergraduate and then as a graduate student, I
20:45
Speaker 1: focused on identities after in my studies and part out
20:49
Speaker 1: of frustration because of my own experience and trying to
20:52
Speaker 1: recover and how difficult that was. But I also wanted
20:54
Speaker 1: to help other people because surely there are other victims
20:57
Speaker 1: out there who were just as frustrated as I was.
21:01
Speaker 1: And I really wanted to solve the case. I talked
21:04
Speaker 1: about that in the book you Know from you Know
21:06
Speaker 1: From the time to Sell started with my parents. I
21:09
Speaker 1: wanted the case to be resolved, and they were Wait
21:15
Speaker 1: a minute, accident. You're absolutely correct. Take a listener, friend,
21:19
Speaker 1: doctor Phil. You say that she stole your identity? Yes,
21:23
Speaker 1: and opened up what ten credit cards? Ten? Maybe more? Ten?
21:28
Speaker 1: Maybe more credit cards in your name? Yes, along with
21:31
Speaker 1: a electricity bill as well, utility bill and ten credit cards. Yes.
21:36
Speaker 1: You said that you wanted to focus to be on
21:38
Speaker 1: the relationship. Then let's talk about the relationship. Did you
21:42
Speaker 1: hijack your daughter's identity? No? I did not. The election,
21:46
Speaker 1: so you didn't open ten credit cards in her name? No,
21:48
Speaker 1: I did not. She was aware of the one to
21:50
Speaker 1: start her credit when she was at school. I did
21:57
Speaker 1: the electric bill so she would have a place of residency.
22:02
Speaker 1: You knew that. Look, there aren't versions of the truth.
22:07
Speaker 1: Did she or did she not open up credit cards
22:08
Speaker 1: in your name. Yes she did, and they weren't for you.
22:11
Speaker 1: She had the credit cards, Yes, she had the credit
22:12
Speaker 1: cards the whole time. Wow, you are hearing doctor Field
22:16
Speaker 1: take on a mom and daughter where the mom takes
22:19
Speaker 1: out credit cards and daughter cheller's name. Mom keeps the
22:23
Speaker 1: credit cards for herself and she's not the only one.
22:26
Speaker 1: Take a listen to her for an abcp R Thomas.
22:29
Speaker 1: Olivia McNamara was starting her freshman year at Vanderbilt University and,
22:33
Speaker 1: like so many eighteen year olds, applying for her first
22:36
Speaker 1: credit card. That's when the nightmare started. Olivia's credit applications
22:41
Speaker 1: were rejected twice. Someone had stolen her identity when she
22:45
Speaker 1: was nine years old. They years to run up one
22:47
Speaker 1: point five million dollars in debt. I can't even describe it.
22:51
Speaker 1: It's just really shocking, and we just had no idea.
22:54
Speaker 1: The thieves created more than forty two accounts, defaulting on
22:57
Speaker 1: all of them. They took blows out on boats and
23:01
Speaker 1: houses and everything. Olivia is still working to clear her credit.
23:06
Speaker 1: It may take her months, if not years, to start fresh.
23:10
Speaker 1: A new report estimates that are staggering. One in ten
23:12
Speaker 1: American children are victims with no clue it's happening. Criminals
23:16
Speaker 1: hack home computers looking for tax forms with the social
23:19
Speaker 1: security numbers of children. They've also stolen identities from hospitals,
23:23
Speaker 1: child welfare agencies, even schools. Thieves stole eleven year old
23:27
Speaker 1: Brianna's social Security number and ran up more than one
23:30
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty two thousand dollars in debt buying a
23:32
Speaker 1: car and a house using eight year old Bradley's ID.
23:36
Speaker 1: Crooks took out two student loans and got five credit cards,
23:40
Speaker 1: total damage nineteen thousand, two hundred dollars. Thieves use false
23:44
Speaker 1: names and addresses repeatedly, simply opening new accounts after their default.
23:50
Speaker 1: Joining me accident. Bets Hamilton, author of The Less People
23:53
Speaker 1: Know About Us, speaking out of the Less People Know
23:56
Speaker 1: about You? Is it sure your mom did not want
23:59
Speaker 1: any a funeral, nor does she want an obituary? And
24:04
Speaker 1: what do you believe the reasoning is behind that? I
24:06
Speaker 1: think she wanted to take her secrets and her crimes
24:09
Speaker 1: with her to the graves. I think that she thought
24:14
Speaker 1: by having an obituary and a funeral service that different
24:21
Speaker 1: people that she was telling different versions of the truth too,
24:25
Speaker 1: would all converge in one place, meaning the funeral home,
24:29
Speaker 1: and start saying things to us and questioning things that
24:33
Speaker 1: would make her story and her criminal activity unraveled right
24:40
Speaker 1: there at the funeral home. So she still wanted to
24:43
Speaker 1: isolate us from other people. Even in her death. The
24:47
Speaker 1: mom did not want a funeral, did not want an obituary.
24:50
Speaker 1: It was it because she wanted to keep hiding what
24:52
Speaker 1: she had been doing, afraid that if somebody saw her
24:55
Speaker 1: full name, they would put two and two together and
24:57
Speaker 1: recognize her. Her real name Pam Pam Bets, but she
25:01
Speaker 1: often went by Pamela Elliott, and that's name she used
25:05
Speaker 1: frequently even on Facebook. Question do you accton how did
25:10
Speaker 1: you relate to your mom in life? What was your relationship?
25:14
Speaker 1: I thought it was a good relationship. I talked with
25:17
Speaker 1: her every day. And you know, Mom was this person
25:21
Speaker 1: who had you know, this larger than life. Of course,
25:26
Speaker 1: she you know, you know, in our family, she was
25:29
Speaker 1: the knowledgeable one, and she was the strong one. You know,
25:33
Speaker 1: even when she had cancers, she faced it fearlessly, and
25:38
Speaker 1: Dad and I saw that as a sign of strength.
25:40
Speaker 1: We always saw her as the strong one, the more
25:44
Speaker 1: rational one, the one who would always know what to
25:48
Speaker 1: do and how to take care of things. But I'm
25:50
Speaker 1: trying to figure out where did all that money go?
25:52
Speaker 1: Five hundred thousand dollars. I mean, what kind of lifestyle
25:55
Speaker 1: was your mom leading? What was your homeline, your close,
25:58
Speaker 1: your cars? What we primary at? Shopped at Walmart because
26:02
Speaker 1: that's what there was in the rural community where I
26:05
Speaker 1: grew up, and that's where you know, mom bought my
26:10
Speaker 1: clothes and we inherited my grandfather's farm, so we lived
26:16
Speaker 1: in his limestone ranch style house in a pretty modest house.
26:21
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't have fancy car crime stories with
26:35
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. When you go when you guys went back
26:39
Speaker 1: through all the years of credit card fraud, could you
26:43
Speaker 1: tell what she was doing with it? No? IM So
26:46
Speaker 1: that one credit card statement in my name that Dad
26:49
Speaker 1: found it was an overdue notice, so there were no
26:51
Speaker 1: charges on the statements. And what statements I could find,
26:56
Speaker 1: which you know my picture of documentses, so there's no
27:01
Speaker 1: trail of what she was purchasing. Is it true that
27:05
Speaker 1: there were indications she may have had a second life
27:09
Speaker 1: in Ohio? Yes, on her computer. So when I when
27:13
Speaker 1: I found this out, I became like a CSI technician
27:18
Speaker 1: almost and I was going through her Facebook. I was
27:21
Speaker 1: going through all of the files on her computer, and
27:25
Speaker 1: I found pictures of a house on a lake, and
27:31
Speaker 1: I found pictures from the inside of a condominium. And
27:37
Speaker 1: the pictures are taken at night. They're not staged and
27:41
Speaker 1: they're not professional. You know, it looks like someone took
27:44
Speaker 1: them on their cell phone. And you can tell us night.
27:47
Speaker 1: You can see the through the window that there's a
27:50
Speaker 1: pretty full moon, and then you can see from the
27:54
Speaker 1: way the condos are designed, you know, what they looked
27:57
Speaker 1: like from the outside. So, just on a lark, I
28:00
Speaker 1: googled condominium complexes in the town where she graduated high
28:04
Speaker 1: school from, and that photo was taken some condo inside
28:10
Speaker 1: that complex. I have gone to the online property records
28:14
Speaker 1: search in that county to try and find property records
28:19
Speaker 1: in her name, or her maiden name, or even my
28:21
Speaker 1: name or dad's name. I can't find any property records
28:24
Speaker 1: in her name. That doesn't mean she didn't set up
28:27
Speaker 1: a business to buy property, because she knew how to
28:29
Speaker 1: set up businesses. In fact, she set up her own.
28:33
Speaker 1: Because there are these photos of other properties, not of
28:36
Speaker 1: other people, but other properties. But the money had to
28:41
Speaker 1: go somewhere five hundred thousand dollars that we know of,
28:44
Speaker 1: but she managed to cover it up. She would, of course.
28:48
Speaker 1: Accon is the only child. They lived on a farm
28:53
Speaker 1: a quarter of a mile to the nearest home. She
28:58
Speaker 1: had set her identity and the dads were stolen, but
29:02
Speaker 1: pointed at the finger at other people. For all these years,
29:08
Speaker 1: her husband and Shaw had no idea what was going on?
29:12
Speaker 1: How do you do that? Yeah, you know, Nancy, I've
29:14
Speaker 1: seen this in patience actually who I've interviewed in prisons
29:18
Speaker 1: who are leading whole other lives and have other families,
29:21
Speaker 1: or sometimes they have a substance abuse habit and that's
29:23
Speaker 1: where all the money's going. But you know, in a
29:25
Speaker 1: situation like this, it definitely seems like the person has
29:28
Speaker 1: two identities. But how do you come home to your
29:31
Speaker 1: family every day and live a quote normal life when
29:35
Speaker 1: you have another life somewhere else. I guess you're able
29:38
Speaker 1: to compartmentalize it. I mean, I think that's the only
29:40
Speaker 1: way you're able to cope and rationalize it and at
29:42
Speaker 1: acton Bets Hamilton, author of The Less People Know About Us,
29:47
Speaker 1: how did your dad handle this? Because it's not he
29:51
Speaker 1: didn't even know who he's married to. Right, So, after
29:54
Speaker 1: Mom died, he had a really hard time coping with it.
29:56
Speaker 1: In fact, it was hard for him to even be
29:59
Speaker 1: in house. And you know, one way he coped with that,
30:04
Speaker 1: um he had a customer at the store where he
30:06
Speaker 1: worked come in and you know, the customer and Dad
30:10
Speaker 1: were pretty good friends. And he had a terminal diagnosis
30:13
Speaker 1: is cancer. And he had a motorcycle that he offered
30:19
Speaker 1: to Dad, uh, you know, for sale for an extremely
30:24
Speaker 1: reasonable price. And you know, because you know, he felt
30:27
Speaker 1: sorry for my dad and he and my dad always
30:29
Speaker 1: talked about motorcycles and Dad always talked to him about
30:32
Speaker 1: while Sunday, I'd like to have one. While this customer
30:36
Speaker 1: helped make that a reality. And you know, my dad
30:39
Speaker 1: was hesitant about about buying the bike because it's like,
30:42
Speaker 1: you know, this financially is a stupid decision. You know,
30:44
Speaker 1: I could use the money for other things, um, you
30:47
Speaker 1: know that he needed at that time. But he ended
30:50
Speaker 1: up buying the bike with my blessing, and it was
30:53
Speaker 1: one of the best things to help him cope because
30:55
Speaker 1: he could get on the bike when you know, when
30:57
Speaker 1: he felt uncomfortable at home, didn't want to be there.
31:00
Speaker 1: You go out and ride. He found other friends who
31:04
Speaker 1: you know, have the same interest in motorcycles. And what's
31:07
Speaker 1: great about that is that this new group of friends
31:12
Speaker 1: know just him, they don't know him and Mom together,
31:15
Speaker 1: and I think that's been very healthy for him. Tell
31:18
Speaker 1: me accident about your marriage. Where did you get married
31:22
Speaker 1: and why? Well, when Mom was given a terminal diagnosis,
31:32
Speaker 1: I had just come back from seeing her in Indiana,
31:36
Speaker 1: and in fact, I had been home long enough to
31:39
Speaker 1: start unpacking my suitcase when Dad called and said, you
31:41
Speaker 1: have to come home. There's nothing more they can do
31:44
Speaker 1: for her. And you know, it's almost like my life
31:49
Speaker 1: flashed inside of my eyes, but it was like my
31:51
Speaker 1: future life, and that, you know, I thought I had
31:54
Speaker 1: all of this extra time with Mom. You know Mom,
31:56
Speaker 1: you know, within her late fifties when she passed away.
31:58
Speaker 1: I thought I had a lot more years left of
32:00
Speaker 1: stuff for her to see me do. When one of
32:03
Speaker 1: those things was getting married, and I called my then
32:07
Speaker 1: fiance and said, you have to come down here, told
32:09
Speaker 1: him what was going on, and I said I need
32:11
Speaker 1: you to bring a suit because you're gonna get married
32:14
Speaker 1: in it. Because we had been engaged for quite a while,
32:16
Speaker 1: so it wasn't. It wasn't a surprise, and we ended
32:19
Speaker 1: up getting married in her hospital room thirty six hours
32:23
Speaker 1: before she passed away. So that was that was the
32:28
Speaker 1: last big event that she saw me do, and I
32:31
Speaker 1: wanted Mom to see that before she passed away. And
32:34
Speaker 1: at that time you had no idea as she was
32:36
Speaker 1: laying in her hospital bed that she had siphoned half
32:39
Speaker 1: a million dollars using yours and other family members names.
32:42
Speaker 1: Had no idea, no idea too. Natalie Gold, renowned lawyer,
32:48
Speaker 1: author of Millennials Guide to the Universe. You can find
32:52
Speaker 1: it on Amazon. Natalie, how could this have happened? What
32:57
Speaker 1: are the mechanics of how her mother, pambits Axon's mother
33:02
Speaker 1: pull this off? It's really quite simple. She had obviously
33:05
Speaker 1: her daughters, all of hers my identifiable information and the
33:09
Speaker 1: real route, in my opinion of why this happened is
33:13
Speaker 1: the disease in America of overspending and not having any
33:18
Speaker 1: control on our money. And you know, hearing acts and story,
33:21
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking because you think what could have Mom blocked
33:26
Speaker 1: for the five hundred thousand dollars And I would reckon
33:30
Speaker 1: that it's probably a lot of Chatsky's here and nothing
33:36
Speaker 1: so valuable there because we can't. We as Americans especially
33:41
Speaker 1: have a disease when it comes to spending money and
33:45
Speaker 1: likely would happened as ax And says, her mother's credit
33:48
Speaker 1: was ruined. Then who did she go to her husband,
33:51
Speaker 1: grandfather and child because she probably thought, well, maybe I
33:57
Speaker 1: can buy them some extra things, maybe I can alleviate
34:00
Speaker 1: And especially because you were going to Ohio so often,
34:03
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised if she had some sort
34:07
Speaker 1: of lover of their or boyfriend or what have you.
34:12
Speaker 1: Because for her to do this and hide it from
34:14
Speaker 1: your family, who, as a mother and then your children
34:18
Speaker 1: are the ones who you love the most in this world.
34:21
Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,